Which console had the best collection of RPGs? Super Nintendo? Or Sony Playstation?

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Anonymous Tue Apr 1 16:26:48 2014 No.1513156 [Reply] [Original]

Which console had the best collection of RPGs?

Super Nintendo? Or Sony Playstation?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 16:27:48 2014 No.1513158 >>1513156 >doesn't mention n64's library

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 16:29:48 2014 No.1513160 >>1513158 N64 had 10 RPGs tops.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 16:31:48 2014 No.1513163 >>1513160 I didn't even know it had 10. I remember playing Quest 64 and thinking about how much better Final Fantasy on the Playstation was.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 16:50:18 2014 No.1513213 File: 38 KB, 720x480, 1396004855719.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1513158 >n64 >rpgs Pick one. But seriously though, all I can think of is Ogre Battle, Paper Mario, Quest 64, and the awful Aidyn Chronicles.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 16:57:49 2014 No.1513224 Localized? PS JP as well? SNES

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:02:20 2014 No.1513229 SNES easily.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:02:49 2014 No.1513230 I think PSX because they tended to innovate more at that point in time.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:06:50 2014 No.1513236 Chrono Trigger, Earthbound and FF6 beat everything the PSX has to offer.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:08:19 2014 No.1513240 >>1513156 PS1 hands down.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:09:19 2014 No.1513241 >inb4 this turns into another console wars thread

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:10:19 2014 No.1513243 >>1513236 Sometimes I think those three are the only RPGs people ever played here.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:15:49 2014 No.1513258 >>1513224 Basically this.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:48:50 2014 No.1513328 Who can name all four games in the image posted?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:50:19 2014 No.1513332 >>1513328 Who can't?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:51:19 2014 No.1513335 >>1513236 winrar

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 17:53:19 2014 No.1513340 >>1513224 this

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:06:49 2014 No.1513361

>>1513156
Playstation had so much more variety, but generally the RPGs that are for the SNES are all among top notch amazing games.

Super Nintendo is probably my favorite 90s consoles but with that variety and choice I'll have to go with Playstation on this one.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:09:49 2014 No.1513368 The SNES had a better library than the PS1.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:15:20 2014 No.1513381 >>1513328 Looks like the "classic" RPGs to me... (From left to right): Harvest Moon, Contra, A Link To The Past and Metal Gear Solid

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:15:20 2014 No.1513383 >>1513381 Hello autism.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:17:50 2014 No.1513389 Since, the only PlayStation RPG I've played is Final Fantasy VII, I'd have to say the Super Nintendo had the better RPGs. Final Fantasy VI and Chrono Trigger. Nuff said.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:19:20 2014 No.1513390 >>1513243 You're not wrong. Those three games aren't even the best RPGs on the SNES. Ridiculously overrated.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:20:53 2014 No.1513391 >>1513389 If you haven't played anything how do you feel you can make any sort of judgement? I've played more PSX RPGs than that and I don't even like RPGs.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:22:19 2014 No.1513396 >>1513224

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:22:22 2014 No.1513401

>>1513390
>Ridiculously overrated.
I could give you that for Earthbound but neither Chrono Trigger or FF6 are overrated by any stretch. The average person nowadays hasn't even heard of Chrono Trigger and only know FF6 as "that 2D game that came out before FF7"

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:23:54 2014 No.1513403 >>1513391 Because the PlayStation is a piece of shit compared to the Super Nintendo.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:24:22 2014 No.1513405 >>1513401 >The average person nowadays hasn't even heard of Chrono Trigger Blatantly false.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:25:52 2014 No.1513409 >>1513405 I'm not talking about the average poster in /vr/ here. Being able to google the title doesn't count as being familiar with the game.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:25:52 2014 No.1513410

>>1513156
Well, since much RPGs made for the SNES reached the PS1 as weel, I would say Playstation. I'm adding Valkyrie Profile, Suikoden II, Legend of Dragoon ad the Final Fantasy. All of 'em. Plus Parasite Eve, call me faggot for that.
>inb4 Not Earthbound
>inb4 That console conversion
Don't even care

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:26:19 2014 No.1513412 >>1513403 >I haven't played anything the system has to offer >but it's shit >>>/v/

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:27:30 2014 No.1513415 >>1513403 Your ignorance is not a valid argument.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:29:22 2014 No.1513424 >>1513403 Hopping aboard the bandwagon here. Fanboyism is not a valid argument.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:30:22 2014 No.1513425 Playstation.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:30:22 2014 No.1513426 >>1513401 Are you kidding? Both CT and FF6 recently had high-profile rereleases on fucking phones. There is no one even tangentially conversant in games who is not aware of them.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:31:50 2014 No.1513430 >>1513410 >Plus Parasite Eve, call me faggot for that. If thinking PE is one of the best PS1 RPGs makes you a faggot, then consider me Chris Crocker.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:32:20 2014 No.1513432 >>1513401 >neither Chrono Trigger or FF6 are overrated by any stretch Except they are, severely.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:32:20 2014 No.1513434 SNES has a ton of bad RPGs that get recognition. PSX has a ton of good RPGs that don't get recognition.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:34:50 2014 No.1513439

I have a special spot in my heart for PS JRPGs, but in that way that someone likes bad movies, you know? I tend to think of PS JRPGs as being the quintessential JRPG cliche. SNES JRPGs felt more innovative, like they were still breaking away from their roots in tabletop and WRPGs.

For that reason, I'd have to say that SNES JRPGs are more valuable.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:35:20 2014 No.1513440 >>1513236 >Chrono Trigger, Earthbound and FF6 Good choices but the SNES/Super Famicom was stacked with great RPGs: Ogre Battle, Super Mario RPG, Breath of Fire, Illusion of Gaia and Star Ocean were all top notch imo.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:35:50 2014 No.1513445

>>1513409
And I stand by what I said. Your claim is blatantly false. Chrono Trigger is one of the most well known an well liked SNES games there is, and it's the 15th best selling SNES game of all time.
You'd be hard pressed to find a top # SNES games list from any source that doesn't put it near the top, never mind doesn't include it at all.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:36:20 2014 No.1513448 >>1513439 They just carried on the foundations of NES/MSX RPGs. Not sure how any RPG on the SNES innovated anything. Speaking strictly JRPGs here.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:40:20 2014 No.1513453 >>1513448 I see it as more of a transitional period, since PS RPGs are all so laden with modern anime tropes. You see some of that in the SNES era, but not nearly as much.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:41:50 2014 No.1513454

>>1513426
>>1513432
I think you're both nitpicking too hard to see what I'm trying to say.

Yes the games certainly have their respective cult followings but they're nowhere near a level of "overrated" that other "hardcore RPG fans" cling to. Try talking to any self-proclaimed gamer and telling them FF7 or OOT are overrated and you'll have a shitstorm on your hands - do the same for CT or FF6 and you'll almost always get a washy answer that seems to indicate that they either have barely played the games or that they outright don't know them, I'm not talking out of my ass here, I'm talking solid first-hand experience, there's no way you haven't witnessed what I'm talking about unless you're incredibly sheltered from interaction with other gamers.

I'm pretty certain that over half of the sales of FF6 and CT's rereleases are to previously established fans of the games too.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:44:20 2014 No.1513461 >>1513412 >>1513415 >>1513424 You guys are too easy.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:44:20 2014 No.1513463 >>1513445 why does popularitymatter? is call of duty the best game ever because it sells well? is (insert newest pop star of this generation) a great artist?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:47:51 2014 No.1513469 >>1513454 Anecdotes are empirical.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:47:51 2014 No.1513471 >>1513430 parasite eve is garbage

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:50:20 2014 No.1513480

>>1513454
>I'm pretty certain that over half of the sales of FF6 and CT's rereleases are to previously established fans of the games too.
And how do you account for the fact that those are the 16th and 15th best selling SNES games, respectively, with the ONLY RPGs to sell any more copies than that on the system being a couple Dragon Quest games because lol Japan?

>>1513463
>why does popularitymatter?
Is this a joke? The guy I was responding to said Chrono Trigger isn't well known.
Mind explaining to me how popularity DOESN'T matter to that argument?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:51:20 2014 No.1513483 >>1513469 Yeah thank god we have all that empirical evidence supporting your subjective opinion

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:51:20 2014 No.1513487 The MegaDrive had the best RPGs.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:52:20 2014 No.1513491 >>1513471 Welp, you convinced. I'm now going to sell my copy and delete my saves. What the fuck was I thinking?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:52:51 2014 No.1513489 File: 13 KB, 250x201, 1396392751031.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1513471

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:54:20 2014 No.1513493 >>1513461 >I was only pretending to be retarded >>>/v/

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:55:20 2014 No.1513496 >>1513471 BAIT

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:55:20 2014 No.1513498 As expected, console wars.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 18:59:55 2014 No.1513507 >>1513498 Actually this is even more retarded than that, it's literally arguing that Chrono Trigger isn't popular and weak bait like "PSX sucks" and "Parasite Eve is garbage"

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:00:24 2014 No.1513508 >>1513507 parasite even being garbage is a common opinion most people feel this way after finishing middle school

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:01:24 2014 No.1513510 >>1513463 There's a difference between critical and commercial acclaim.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:01:54 2014 No.1513513 Jesus I hate this thread, congrats OP I hate you for starting this.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:02:24 2014 No.1513515 >>1513510 well it's not like you can trust either one

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:02:24 2014 No.1513518 >>1513508 Really? Who are these "most people"? Anecdotal evidence isn't enough. You have to give reasons why you feel Parasite Eve is bad.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:02:54 2014 No.1513517 >>1513508 [your favorite game] being garbage is a common opinion most people feel this way after finishing middle school

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:03:24 2014 No.1513520 >>1513517 how fucking dare you say that about my favorite game you asshole

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:06:24 2014 No.1513529 >>1513518 >>1513517 you guys jumping and busting your ass to defend it instantly is evidence enough

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:08:24 2014 No.1513537 >>1513515 You can use them as a guideline for what to try yourself and then make your own opinions.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:08:25 2014 No.1513541 Nope.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:08:54 2014 No.1513540 Hey guys the statistics just came in: FF8 is the best RPG. These are real facts and figures that actually exist, so I win. You're not allowed to think any other RPG is better because all of your evidence is anecdotal.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:09:24 2014 No.1513547 >>1513540 I'd be interested to see these "statistics" you sperglord

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:09:54 2014 No.1513542 PS1 since it also got significant SNES RPG re-releases.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:09:54 2014 No.1513546 >>1513529 That's not really evidence of anything, especially because I didn't say anything except your favorite game is shit, dawg. IT'S SHIIIIIIT! SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT! Prove me wrong.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:11:54 2014 No.1513549 File: 220 KB, 640x360, 1396150891646.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1513381

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:12:24 2014 No.1513550 >>1513547 If you don't notice sarcasm, and call someone a sperglord, are you actually the sperglord?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:13:24 2014 No.1513552 File: 17 KB, 640x400, veryrealstatistics.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1513547

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:13:54 2014 No.1513554 >>1513547 He was obviously being sarcastic to prove a point, you dumbfuck.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:14:24 2014 No.1513560 >>1513552 All statistics should be dated 4th of January for maximum butthurt.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:18:24 2014 No.1513575 >>1513547 >can't distinguish facetiousness >accuse others of being on the spectrum lel

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:25:41 2014 No.1513598 >>1513496 No, he's right. Awful combat, clunky controls, horrible level design, and barely any RPG elements to speak of. It's subpar at best.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:26:11 2014 No.1513605 /v/

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:35:11 2014 No.1513643 >>1513552 seems legit, BOGE doesn't even use straight lines because they are so concentrated on the actual work they don't even put effort on presentation.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:35:41 2014 No.1513641 >>1513554 language!

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:40:41 2014 No.1513667 >>1513598 Those sound like opinions to me.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 19:46:11 2014 No.1513694 >>1513667 That's because you're covering your eyes and ears to logic and common sense.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 20:02:41 2014 No.1513737 >>1513550 >>1513554 >>1513575 >taking me seriously christ guys really, I know I called him a sperglord but really I was being as facetious as he was.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 20:13:11 2014 No.1513767 It isn't quite fair since FF4-6 and CT were ported to PS1; if with slowdown and load times and shit. I'd go with PS1 due to the combined strength of its own library plus those SNES ports

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 20:16:41 2014 No.1513778 most of the good RPGs ended up on the playstation anyway. You would have to be retarded to say SNES

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 20:26:11 2014 No.1513801 >>1513737 No really, look at how you phrased it. You can't just do the "I was just pretending to be retarded" thing.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 20:31:11 2014 No.1513814

>>1513694
Sounds like you're attempting to disguise your opinion as "logic and common sense". Watch this.

"Parasite Eve has great combat, smooth controls, well-designed levels, and fun RPG elements. It's a great game even at its worst. Anyone with logic and common sense thinks so."

Nobody proves anything that way.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 20:36:42 2014 No.1513828 >>1513814 except all of that is untrue

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 21:19:32 2014 No.1513928 >>1513778 Many of those ports are worse than the original release.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 21:22:02 2014 No.1513935

>>1513801
I wasn't even "pretending to be retarded" I was just going along with the flow of the thread which was very obviously facetious and blatantly foolish in nature.

Oh - but I forgot! If you call someone a "sperglord" it automatically designates a tone of absolute seriousness!

Yeah, no.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 21:26:33 2014 No.1513942

>>1513935
>I wasn't even "pretending to be retarded" I was just going along with the flow of the thread which was very obviously facetious and blatantly foolish in nature.

>I wasn't acting stupid. I was just acting stupid.

You realize you completely contradicted yourself there, right?

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 21:32:02 2014 No.1513960

>>1513942
Facetiousness =\= stupid
Facetiousness is intentional comedy.
Stupidity is unintentional blather.

I responded to his post, which I found humorous, in such a way that he could respond with further humor.

If you continue to have difficulties understanding such things I suggest you try a more user-friendly social medium such as a forum or perhaps even a Facebook community. Good luck out there, sport.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 23:31:54 2014 No.1514170 >>1513540 "i'm allowed to like bad games!" "it's my opinion, all games are equal!"

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 03:57:56 2014 No.1514535

I believe the PC does, with such titles as Planescape: Torment and Arcanum. What you're referring to as RPGs on the SNES and PSX, OP, are in fact shitty japanese number cruncher simulators that didn't evolve beyond that which they unoriginally and poorly ripped off in the '80s, Wizardry 2. I trust you won't make the same mistake again in the future.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 04:06:09 2014 No.1514541 >>1514535 Subtle in elegance, yet straightforward in prowess. I award this post a prestigious and unprecedented 9.5/10 if not copypasta. If copypasta still a 9.5/10 but only subjectively since I haven't seen it before.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 04:08:09 2014 No.1514542 >>1513828 In your opinion. You're really having trouble with this one.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 04:11:39 2014 No.1514545

>>1513935
Yeah that's kind of it actually. If you didn't call him a sperglord, I would've assumed you were joking. If you added an exclamation point after sperglord, I probably would've thought you were joking, too. The way it actually looked, nobody thought you were joking. Such is the way of communicating humor solely through text.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 04:15:09 2014 No.1514551 >>1514535 >number cruncher simulators >not wrpgs But I would've been so much more persuasive to the guard if I had only allocated my skill points properly!

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 04:40:27 2014 No.1514572 PS1 had Grandia, so fuck your Hipsterbound, Chrono Loser and "Final" Fantasy 3.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 04:44:27 2014 No.1514576 >>1513401 >>1513432 Uhh, the biggest fanboys I've ever seen outside of Zelda games was for Trigger. Good for them for liking a slow-ass game with a boring battle system. Hope you enjoy doing dual techs because that is all you will be doing.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 05:47:01 2014 No.1514626 >>1513156 What's the 3rd game from the left?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 06:15:01 2014 No.1514648 >>1514626 Breath of Fire

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 06:17:31 2014 No.1514649 >>1514648 3 I believe. I've never played any of the games accept the first, but the name Ryu kind of have it away.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 07:04:31 2014 No.1514683 >>1514551 Well, yes ? Let's not pretend games such as Final Fantasy are really RPG. >No choice >No skill point >You can't even create your hereo >Can barely change your group >incredibly straight forward >Combat consist of spamming X button

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 07:16:31 2014 No.1514694 >>1514572 Yeah, the worst version of Grandia, with the texture fucked up. If you want to play the REAL grandia, you must choose the Saturn version.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 07:29:16 2014 No.1514706 >>1514683 The point is that WRPGs are more about numbers than JRPGS.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 07:54:46 2014 No.1514727 File: 21 KB, 250x171, 250px-Secret_of_Mana_Box.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Had the funnest time pulling all nighters playing this with friends. Gonna say its probably the most fun I've had with an RPG

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 09:58:51 2014 No.1514816 >>1513560 Why the 4th of January?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 10:48:51 2014 No.1514874 >>1514727 Awesome! Glad you were able to have a fun time playing such a nice game with your friends.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 10:54:21 2014 No.1514884 >>1513156 PS1. >>1513224 But I agree with this.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 13:14:32 2014 No.1515132 >>1514706 No they aren't. PC RPG's force you to grind very rarely, and you get XP in more ways than just fighting.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 13:22:32 2014 No.1515157

>>1513156
SNES easily for me.

Yes, I know PS1 had ports of some of the better SNES RPGs, but I don't feel that it's fair to count ports when comparing the two since they are from different eras in gaming. It'd be like counting games from previous consoles as part of a console's library just because it has backward compatibility.

PS1 had some great RPGs, don't get me wrong. But SNES had better RPGs, and a lot more quality RPGs than some people today realize. It doesn't hurt that SNES graphics hold up better than PS1 graphics as well.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 13:28:32 2014 No.1515170

>>1514576
While I actually liked the battle system of Chrono Trigger, I can tell you that the reason the game has such a strong following is due to its memorable and beloved characters, its humorous story presentation mixed with moments of simplistic, yet affecting, drama, its brilliant soundtrack, and its charming art style. I've played plenty of RPGs with better mechanics, but very few that matched CT on any of the traits I listed, and even fewer that matched all of them. The game's reputation is deserved, IMO, and it has risen to mythic status because there has never been a true sequel to dilute and divide its fanbase (unlike most RPGs, such as Final Fantasy).

And no, Chrono Cross is not really a sequel nor does it bring back everyone involved in Trigger (still a good game though).

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 13:32:02 2014 No.1515181 >>1515157 >It doesn't hurt that SNES graphics hold up better than PS1 graphics as well. Weird because most PS1 RPGs have beautiful pre-rendered backgrounds.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 13:34:32 2014 No.1515182 >>1515181 Which clash spectacularly with the assets in the game that aren't pre-rendered which, honestly, is a lot more jarring than if they went with one consistent style throughout (even if it overall looked "worse")

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 13:39:02 2014 No.1515195

Oh boy, my two favorite consoles! This thread was made just for me.

Having wasted my entire life behind SNES and PS1 RPGs, I'm going to safely say the PS1 has the best collection.

Not that I don't like the gems on the SNES; lord knows I've played the shit out of Terranigma; but the PS1 was the golden era for game design and artistic expression in this genre. Final Fantasy VII and IX both set a level of quality I've not seen before or since, and they're supplemented by a wealth of lesser-known or unknown RPGs like Vagrant Story and Dragoon.

But I know lots of fanatical FFVI fans will give it to the SNES. You guys are going to have to admit that VII and IX improved on the formula sooner or later.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 13:43:32 2014 No.1515204 >>1515195 I'll give you IX, but VII is really not that good. VI is the better game. VII just got more hype due to FMVs.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 13:52:33 2014 No.1515225

>>1515204
>VII just got more hype due to FMVs.
This is one of, if not THE biggest misunderstanding in video gaming.

VII's game design decisions are outrageously smart. Its systems of combat are easier to understand/access than games previous, while providing a higher level of possible customization and strategic possibility. The materia system is pure elegance. The slotted weapons/armors and growth rates added weight to bought equipment, keeping the player's interest and increasing the strategic significance of your decisions. There are more tradeoffs, and less natural progressions. There are more systems to manipulate, and more being manipulated against you, with more safeguards against abuse.

It's not possible to sum this up in 4chan posts. Whole lectures and long research pieces have been written on why VII was such a game-changer.

I've found that most people who mention VII's hype or flashy appeal as its cause for success don't have a huge interest in or understanding of game design.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 13:56:33 2014 No.1515230

>>1515225
You talk about materia system as if it's some brilliant innovation, yet even in the FF series, FFVI already had espers, which were different but functionally similar. And if you are so interested in strategy and decision-making, you should instead play FF Tactics.

FFVII was a fun game for what it was, but it didn't grab me as much as some other games in the series.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 14:05:33 2014 No.1515264 >>1515230 It was a brilliant innovation, but I can't talk about this here right now. It would take several full length posts.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 14:11:49 2014 No.1515279

It's hard to choose, on one hand, I have Breath of Fire IV, the Lunar series, Final Fantasy VII and IX, Chrono Cross, Dragon Warrior VII, Grandia, Legend of Mana, Persona 2, Parasite Eve, SaGa Frontier, Suikoden and Suikoden II, Tales of Eternia, Vagrant Story, Valkyrie Profile, the Wild Arms and Xenogears.
On the other, Breath of Fire II, Chrono Trigger, Earthbound, Final Fantasy VI, Lufia II, Ogre Battle, Secret of Mana and Terranigma.
But, while both of them had some of my favorite RPGs of all time, I have to say I enjoyed the ones on the PS more. But just a little.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 14:14:49 2014 No.1515291 >>1515230 You can completely ignore the esper stat growth system and barely notice a difference. Materia system gives you interesting choices to make with weapon growth vs damage etc., and it's fun setting up different combos of linked materia.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 14:25:19 2014 No.1515319 >>1515291 Too bad the characters were mostly meh, the story was trite and full of cliches, the story was a convoluted mess, and the villain was an edgy tryhard.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 14:25:19 2014 No.1515321 >>1515319 which game are you talking about

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 14:27:19 2014 No.1515324 >>1515321 FFVII

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 14:28:49 2014 No.1515325

>>1515225
No, one of the biggest mistakes in video gaming is thinking that any "traditional" RGP has a lick of strategy. They have almost NONE and are some of the biggest non-games to have ever been created.

Unfortunately morons like you confuse pointless complexities with actual strategy. You've simply been scammed into thinking that the menu system and way in which you select attacks actually adds complexity to the game when it does nothing of the sort.

An analogy that will help some to understand. Take a game like Street Fighter. You are playing as Ryu and as an opponent jumps in you want to use Ryu's dragon punch to counter. You perform the move and out comes the dragon punch. The move you need is the dragon punch, how you get it is irrelevent.

However, someone comes along in a later game and decides to "hide" the dragon punch behind a "battle system" that requires you to do all sorts of pointless bullshit before you can actually perform said dragon punch. Retards then exclaim that the game has "amazing strategic" depth when in reality NOTHING has changed as the only thing with tactical importance, the actual proper use of the dragon punch, is exactly the same. The game designers have simply fooled your dumb ass by hiding the dragon punch behind a few more menu screens and giving said screens fancy names.

The only "strategy" in most Final Fantasy games is hitting X over and over again like a retard....which is exactly why every moron on the fucking planet can beat the game with ease.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 14:31:19 2014 No.1515330 >>1515325 What's an RGP?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 14:31:19 2014 No.1515331 >>1515325 I'm not sure if you've ever even played FF. I'd like to see you beat, say, FFIII (the real one) with that strategy of yours.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 14:32:49 2014 No.1515332 File: 66 KB, 446x597, average southern gentleman.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1515325

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 14:35:49 2014 No.1515342

>>1515330
>>1515331
>>1515332
He actually makes a good point, although the hyperbole of the last line kind of ruins it. Of course you can't just hit one button over and over again to win. But it is true that there is very little strategy in most JRPGs (discounting strategy/tactical JRPGs of course). Not to say there's none, but there's not much.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 14:41:19 2014 No.1515359 >>1515342 No, he's just not making a good point. Especially once you get into games where the ATB system added an element of timing to battles. It's isn't a simple give and take, or action/reaction predicting system like he's boiling it down to.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 14:42:49 2014 No.1515360

>>1515331
Played and beat almost all of them. Owned Final Fantasy 1 from a few months after launch as I am an old weaboo. Read Japanese as well and live in Japan so experience the games at maximum waifu levels.

As games they are still utter dog shit with almost zero strategy whatsoever. Decent little anime adventure stories for kids? Sure. Games? No. There is a reason every half retarded 8 year old the planet can beat almost every Final Fantasy game out there.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 14:44:19 2014 No.1515363 >>1515360 >Decent little anime adventure stories for kids? laying it on way to thick, breh

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 14:44:19 2014 No.1515368 >>1515359 ATB added very little strategy though. Compare it to a turn-based system like the Grandia series, which is one of the few JRPG battle systems that may rightly be called strategic.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 14:45:49 2014 No.1515370 >>1515360 your use of hyperbole is only hurting your argument

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 14:46:19 2014 No.1515373 File: 616 KB, 1363x830, udvXz.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1515360 >Read Japanese as well and live in Japan >Games? No. are you implying all video games aren't for kids

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 14:46:49 2014 No.1515374 >>1514706 That would be still better than just pressing X.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 14:47:49 2014 No.1515379 >>1515332 >>1515359 sorry but he is right. There is a reason why Baldur's gate 2 is so much praised for the combat system.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 14:48:19 2014 No.1515383 >>1515368 Timed decision making and changing states add a significant level of depth, especially when played on active setting with a high battle speed.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 14:48:20 2014 No.1515386 >>1515291 I completely ignored stats on Materia too and it didn't matter at all. Regarding materia, the only stuff that really matters is... Pro: Can make combos out of multiple materia, Con: Every character's learned skills are hot-swappable

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 14:49:19 2014 No.1515392 >>1515383 It adds some depth, especially compared to the way pure turn-based combat worked in early FFs. But it's not really enough to call it strategic.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 14:53:19 2014 No.1515397 Except that FFX, which is entirely turn based is more strategic than any of the ATB FF games. Not that its hard either or anything.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 14:55:19 2014 No.1515407

>>1515359
> ATB
> Timing.

Holy fuck my sides. ATB is basically just mocking "muh battle system" idiots even more. In fact it shows how shit and devoid of strategy the games are when they have to force tension into the game by not allowing you to sit around for 5 minutes before you use the same attack you were going to spam away with anyway.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 14:57:19 2014 No.1515416 >>1515383 >Timed decision making. Right, because I need 5 seconds per turn to realize that I need to hit X again.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 14:58:49 2014 No.1515417

>>1515407
it does too add strategy

"Cecil! Don't hit the dragon when it's in mist form!"
"Bartz! Don't hit the boss while its tail is up!"
"Wedge! Don't attack while it's hiding in its shell!"
"Cloud! Attack while its tail is up, and it'll counterattack!"

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 14:59:49 2014 No.1515420 >>1515417 oops the tutorial boss in FF5 had wings, not a tail

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 15:00:19 2014 No.1515423 trolls trollin' /vr/ is usually not so shitty.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 15:00:49 2014 No.1515421 >>1515416 >Right, because I need 5 seconds per turn to realize that I need to hit X again. If you're going to be this much of a retard reductionist, at least realize that you can break down all video games to "you're just pressing buttons!"

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 15:02:49 2014 No.1515426 >>1515421 that's blatantly false as you and I both know, Star Wars Kinect is the paragon of strategy games

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 15:03:19 2014 No.1515427 >>1513156 PS1 was better than any Nintendo Console (including Wii and WiiU). Anything else is lying bullshit nostalgia garbage.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 15:04:49 2014 No.1515431 >>1515427 you seem unbiased it also doesn't look like you can read

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 15:07:49 2014 No.1515435

>>1515426

im stepping in this argument to say u guys are dumb and dont understand developer intent

strategy in games with repetitive combat is undyamic and being convoluted makes it more of a chore and kills the pacing of the other parts of the game, ie the ones that matter, ie not combat

tl;dr jrpg =/= wrpg

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 15:12:19 2014 No.1515447

>>1515435
I understand developer intent perfectly. In JRPGs the game isn't in the combat. It's in managing your resources in the short and long term. The people who disregard this aspect and say "you can win any boss battle by grinding and pressing X over and over" are the ones ignoring developer intent. They are deliberately using an example of an unskilled, inefficient player who doesn't understand or exploit the assets provided to them.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 15:22:19 2014 No.1515462 DAMN YOU OP! DAMN YOU!

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 15:33:49 2014 No.1515470

>>1515447

A good game with meaningful strategy doesn't allow unskilled and inefficient players to win. That is the definition of shit game design. An unskilled player can't win at chess/basketball/street fighter/any decent game by simply "grinding" on lower level worthless opponents.

And no JRPG's aren't about the combat. They are about the story and music but some retards can't admit to this and keep wanting to believe they are games. They are anime stories that are broken up with a terribly designed "game" mechanics thrown in between chapters that allows retards a false sense of accomplishment.

If people would admit this maybe the creators of such games could actually stop wasting time on the worthless battle systems and instead spend more of it on the parts people actually care about. Almost every Final Fantasy game that has ever existed would have been better as a point and click adventure game.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 15:35:49 2014 No.1515474 >>1515470 >A good game with meaningful strategy doesn't allow unskilled and inefficient players to win. fascinating assertion it's definitely not arbitrary at all

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 15:58:20 2014 No.1515503

Well, the SNES had the Gameboy Player, so that is the Gameboy library too, and Pokemon.

That said, Playstation, if only because roleplaying games are bad, although Playstation roleplaying games offered more content and larger areas to explore as a result of its superior disc capacity.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 16:06:49 2014 No.1515514 >>1515503 PS used its disc capacity for FMVs, not larger worlds I generally get a grander sense of exploration from SNES RPGs like Romancing Saga and Shin Megami Tensei

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 16:26:49 2014 No.1515551 >>1515514 And not SaGa Frontier?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 16:29:19 2014 No.1515556 >>1515551 haven't played it, but I suppose that one could easily have the same feeling

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 16:31:50 2014 No.1515560

>>1515514
You think that they went from 4 megabyte cartridges to 700 megabyte discs, and the only things they added were fmvs? This is the Playstation, not the Sega CD. The SNES games that were ported to the Playstation boasted more content, less restrictions for the developers, and cheaper games. You wont get games like Persona, Xenogears, Breath of Fire 3, Azure Dreams, Digimon World, and others on the SNES because of the astounding limitations of the SNES. With the Playstation, you also got amazing ports of some of the better Final Fantasy's along with sloppy remakes of other critically acclaimed SNES favorites, and also Chrono Trigger found its way on the system, which many posters in this thread list those two series as reasons to prefer the SNES, alongside Earthbound (which was no system seller either). Those two series also had their continuations on the Playstation, Chrono Cross, Final Fantasy 7, among other games that saw the light as "the greatest role playing games of all time" by many people.

Also, what is OP asking for anyways? Greatest roleplaying games on a general scale or just "post your favorites and someone else will shit on them"?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 16:36:49 2014 No.1515570 >>1514542 If you're a child that hasn't learned how to objectively judge anything in life, don't bother saying anything.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 16:40:19 2014 No.1515573 >>1515570 Not even him, but you should follow your own advice faggot. >x game is objectively literally absolute shit This is what you sound like. A faggot with no grasp on what he himself is saying.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 16:41:19 2014 No.1515575 can't we just agree that all RPGs are equal in the eyes of the Lord

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 16:44:49 2014 No.1515580 >>1515573 Except I provided several specific reasons why the game is shit.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 16:46:19 2014 No.1515587 FF8 is the best Final Fantasy because it was the fastest-selling. This is an irrefutable fact, therefore my opinion is more valid than yours.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 16:46:50 2014 No.1515589 >>1515580 All of which were subjective. >>1515575 >the Lord Don't make me take out my fedora

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 16:47:19 2014 No.1515590 >>1515589 Bad level design and lack of RPG elements aren't subjective.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 16:50:19 2014 No.1515593

>>1515590
Yeah they are. "It has bad level design" is any more concrete than "It's a bad game". They're both subjective statements of opinion without any supporting evidence.

And no one can even agree on what RPG elements are, much less "how many" of them you need.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 16:57:49 2014 No.1515604 >>1515593 Then what would be an objective way to judge a video game?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 16:58:49 2014 No.1515606 >>1515604 That's the million dollar question, isn't it? No one can tell for sure. It's almost like different people value different aspects of video games.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 17:19:18 2014 No.1515635 >>1515606 >It's almost like different people value different aspects of video games That doesn't stop you from being objective. You're just lazy and don't want to try.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 17:27:18 2014 No.1515650

>>1515604
>The characters hair is green.
Objective, because multiple people interpret that same thing similarly with little variation.
>The characters hair looks like shit
Subjective, because multiple people interpret that same thing as something differently with much variation. A good rule of thumb is if someone can place antonyms into the sentence to replace a word, and it will still make sense/be controversial, then it is usually subjective.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 17:29:18 2014 No.1515653

Do people forget they released all the FF games on the playstation? FF1-9, save for FF3, are all on PSX. Not to mention PSX had the Lunar series, the BEST final fantasy game (tactics), Star Ocean, Breath of Fire, Tactics Ogre, Grandia. seriously, it just cant be beat.

SNES started some great RPG's though, but anyone saying its better than PSX rpg's either doesn't play many rpg's or is a fanboy.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 17:29:18 2014 No.1515654 >>1515635 No, he's right. There aren't a lot of things about video games that can be objectively measured. You can measure things like "number of stages" or something like that, but the enjoyment you get out of it is all subjective.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 17:30:19 2014 No.1515657

>>1515635
Sure. There are some things I can be objective about. "Shin Megami Tensei has a higher random encounter rate per step than Final Fantasy 6."

But I can't objectively say whether that is desirable or not. At that point it becomes subjective. And even if I could, the reality of the situation is complex, because there's other factors involved, such as that a single step in SMT covers more perceived distance than FF6, and the areas consist of fewer tiles overall. Or that the encounters are less intrusive, because SMT has an autobattle function but FF6 does not.

Attempting to use objective facts to assert that one game is better than another is almost always a futile effort. The best you can do is say "I liked SMT more than FF6 because I felt like the dungeons were more taxing, like the heroes were really running a gauntlet in a demon-infested wasteland."

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 17:33:54 2014 No.1515663

>>1515650
>A good rule of thumb is if someone can place antonyms into the sentence to replace a word, and it will still make sense/be controversial, then it is usually subjective.

You can shut up now. It's pretty obvious you don't even know what objective means.

>>1515654
There are more than enough to suitable judge the majority of games.

>>1515657
>the reality of the situation is complex, because there's other factors involved

And this is why most people don't objectively judge games. They're far too lazy to do so.

>Or that the encounters are less intrusive, because SMT has an autobattle function

This is actually wrong because SMT1's autobattle is shit and only really comes into play near the end of the game.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 17:36:49 2014 No.1515665

>>1515663
>There are more than enough to suitable judge the majority of games.

You can judge games all you want, but don't expect it to be objective.

Example: I like Final Fantasy V better than VI because of the job system. Some people like VI better because of the story. I can say that FFV is better because of the job system, but that's just my opinion. And I can't say that the job system makes it objectively better because not everyone feels the same way about job systems.

I will never understand why you people try so hard to squeeze objectivity out of subjectivity. Do you really need to be "right" that bad?

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 17:37:19 2014 No.1515668

>>1515663
>It's pretty obvious you don't even know what objective means.
You mean in the context that it is being used in right now? Because yes, that is appropriate given its use. Subjective = an opinion. They are always subjective. Objective = fact. Fuck off.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 17:39:20 2014 No.1515670

>>1515663
Well thanks for ignoring the rest of my argument. You're still wrong though. It's impossible to objectively judge games BECAUSE they are complex.

Let's say we take into account your personal values. Let's say you have the objective trait, "Enjoys high encounter rates." That still doesn't mean shit because two different people could play FF6 and SMT, and perceive different encounter rates from either because one person might be more sensitive to time taken, another might be more sensitive to visual distance traveled, and another might be more sensitive to progress made, and another might be more sensitive to number of tiles traveled.

I can't make an objective recommendation to any of these people without getting a ridiculously complex equation from them that relies on four different variables. They'd have to write a document telling me exactly what levels of what bullshit they like. And none of them are going to agree exactly.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 17:40:50 2014 No.1515672

>>1513454
>Try talking to any self-proclaimed gamer and telling them FF7 or OOT are overrated and you'll have a shitstorm on your hands

Try talking to any self-proclaimed gamer and telling them FF6 or CT are overrated and you'll have a shitstorm on your hands. FF6 and CT cocksuckers are just as rabid and annoying as FF7 and OoT cocksuckers.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 17:44:20 2014 No.1515678

>>1515665
You should always judge a game based more on the gameplay than the story, but whether or not you like something has nothing to do with it. There are several games I like that are absolutely horrible. I also recognize that games I didn't enjoy are well made or even great.

>>1515668
>Objective = fact.

Thanks for proving my point.

>>1515670
>Let's say you have the objective trait, "Enjoys high encounter rates."

Are you even trying? What you personally enjoy is the complete opposite of objective.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 17:48:02 2014 No.1515689

>>1515678
If it isn't objective, than it is subjective. Similarly, if it isn't fact, then it is opinion. I didn't see you refute the subjective = opinion, because it IS an opinion, and therefore, calling out only half of the post is fucking retarded, as they go hand in hand. I don't know how you think you can argue about the definition of a word when you yourself don't have a clue.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 17:48:32 2014 No.1515684

>>1515678
>You should always judge a game based more on the gameplay than the story, but whether or not you like something has nothing to do with it.

You do realize we're talking about video games here right? Enjoyment is the whole point.

And ignoring the point about stories, you can't argue with the fact that some people don't like job systems. Some people also don't like the various re-inventions that FF has gone through over the years and prefer something like Dragon Quest. And some people like both FF and DQ.

Stop trying to force objectivity where it doesn't belong.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 17:48:32 2014 No.1515686

>>1515678
Are you retarded? Enjoyment IS the objective. A good game achieves it's objective of providing enjoyment. A bad game does not. What the fuck do you think we are arguing about if not which game is more enjoyable? WHAT IS THE OBJECTIVE MEASURE OF A GOOD GAME IF NOT ENJOYMENT

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 17:54:07 2014 No.1515697

>>1515684
>>1515686
>You do realize we're talking about video games here right? Enjoyment is the whole point.
>A good game achieves it's objective of providing enjoyment

Not necessarily. You're dumbing down and holding the medium back for no reason. It's like saying movies or books are only for "entertainment."

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 17:54:37 2014 No.1515698 >>1513224 truth

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 17:55:07 2014 No.1515702 >>1515697 >dumbing down video games >because we like to have FUN with them I couldn't find a reaction image to convey how hard I'm laughing at you right now.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 17:56:37 2014 No.1515704 >>1515686 >>1515689 >Fun is the only thing that matters! http://youtu.be/lit0xPh_v5c

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 18:00:23 2014 No.1515721

>>1515697
You're going in the completely wrong direction of your previous argument then. Let's say a games are multifaceted. A game could have any objective! That one, its objective is to communicate amusement. That one, its objective is to make the player feel as though society is in inevitable decline. That one, its objective is to spread awareness of trans issues. That one, it's just there to make money.

Now you've complicated the issue even further! Not only do we have a complex situation where we have to assess whether a game meets its objective based on the audience's widely varied values, we now have involved the unsolved problems of determining authorial intent on a collaborative work AND assessing whether authorial intent even matters, and if this game accomplished something, was it the right thing all along even though nobody really knew to begin with.

what the FUCK makes you think that movies and books can be objectively judged

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 18:17:10 2014 No.1515749 >>1513213 There was a very good Tactics Ogre game too.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 18:21:09 2014 No.1515754 File: 60 KB, 640x443, SuperMarioRPGSNESCoverArtUS.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1513156 Most any PS title is better than Super Mario RPG and Earthbound.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 18:21:09 2014 No.1515756 >>1515721 >A game could have any objective! Is English not your first language? You do know there are multiple meanings to that word, right?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 18:27:39 2014 No.1515764 >But guise I'm objectively right because when I say objective fact solely includes my subjective opinion, without any objective facts or evidence, that's objectively true, because I'm never objectively wrong!

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 18:29:39 2014 No.1515768 >>1515749 Yeah, it was called "Ogre Battle 64".

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 18:29:39 2014 No.1515770 >>1515721 OK, if movies and books can't be objectively judged, then how do we known which ones are good and which ones are bad? Something being good or bad has to have SOME objective reason behind it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 18:37:09 2014 No.1515782 >>1515756 Was there something about that sentence that you didn't understand? Do YOU know that it has multiple meanings? >>1515770 we don't

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 18:39:40 2014 No.1515787

>>1515770
Relative standards.

Critics are supposed to have experience in the medium they choose to review. When they say something is good or bad it is generally,"I have read many books, and I typically like these genres. For this book, I find it compares well/poorly to books in general, and especially its contemporaries."

Objective would be, for instance, saying the cover of the book is green.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 18:54:40 2014 No.1515817 >>1515787 Why would you need to read many books to say book X is better than book Y? Wouldn't you just need to read book X and book Y?

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 18:56:39 2014 No.1515824

>>1515787
>When they say something is good or bad it is generally,"I have read many books, and I typically like these genres."

Not how it works.

>>1515817
They don't exist in a vacuum, and the more experience you have with a subject, the better.

It's hilarious how a few people new to gaming think something like level design can't be quantified objectively.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 18:58:09 2014 No.1515831 >>1515824 it's hilarious how many people watch Sequelitis and think hearing someone talk loudly means that their opinions have weight

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 18:58:09 2014 No.1515837

>>1515721
>what the FUCK makes you think that movies and books can be objectively judged

Because they've been around long enough to draw in people with enough intelligence to realize that their personal enjoyment is completely irrelevant to the quality of a work. Maybe in a few more decades it'll happen to games too. It would certainly happen sooner if all you idiots would stop clinging to "b-but fun is the only thing that matters."

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 19:01:09 2014 No.1515848 File: 37 KB, 640x516, fps-map-design.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1515831 Sequel what?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 19:03:39 2014 No.1515853 >>1515848 Yes, trends are different in 2010 than in 1993. You have made a very meaningful point related to the discussion at hand.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 19:07:39 2014 No.1515863 >>1515853 And one is better than the other. Arguing that nothing can be measured objectively means that absolutely nothing has changed since the dawn of time, and that's just retarded.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 19:08:09 2014 No.1515868 >>1515824 >Not how it works. >the more experience you have with a subject, the better. Why are you contradicting yourself?

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 19:09:39 2014 No.1515871

>>1515863
>And one is better than the other.
You mean the one from 2010, right? That's the style that makes more money and draws people in.

You aren't saying that the one on the left is more fun, are you??? Don't cheapen games by rating them according to personal enjoyment, pleb.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 19:13:09 2014 No.1515878 >>1513213 Super Robot Taisen 64, but it was never translated. Still decent, but not as good as Alpha on the PS1.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 19:13:09 2014 No.1515880
File: 218 KB, 360x270, 1394068187386.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>1515324
>Characters were mostly meh
As opposed to what, FFVI characters? At least FFVII had character development, where as FFVI is the same shit for the entire game
>story was trite and full of cliches
So was FFVI's. In terms of story telling, FFVII trumps it. FFVI's story isn't that good. It's only nostalgia fags like yourself getting mad because FFVII gets more praise than FFVI. Why? Because it's the better game.
>Story was a convoluted mess
Just because you're too retarded to understand it, doesn't mean it's convoluted or a mess. It's a really simple to grasp story.
>Villian was an edgy tryhard
Let me just stop you right there. If we're talking in terms of JUST FFVII, Sephiroth is in no way "edgy" or a "tryhard". Your buzzwords will get you no where, kiddo.
Kefka is horrible villain opposed to Jenova, Hojo, and Sephiroth.

And before you say
>B-But, you're just a FFVII fanboy-y!!!!

No, I'm not. FFX is my favorite Final Fantasy, and I don't even like the series that much. I've played all of them barring the online ones, and I can tell you with full confidence, that FFVI is shit compared to FFVII.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 19:14:39 2014 No.1515882 >>1515871 Could you try that again without the ad populum this time?

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 19:16:09 2014 No.1515887

>>1515824
You used the words "quantified objectively" in regard to level design. You do realize quantify is defined as "express or measure the quantity of"? As in, objectively speaking, factually speaking. It's counting. Statistics. You can't quantify how well a design works, you can only relatively compare it by a subjective response. You can quantify the tiles in a level. You can quantify how many sprites are on screen, how many colors. You can quantify the resolution of the system. You can even quantify the average time it takes a certain pool of people to complete the level, but you can't quantify design.

>>1515863
That's not objective, that's a relative comparison. It's rooted in subjectivity because what makes the older games "better" is more complex map design. Why is it better? It's more engaging (feeling), so it's less boring (feeling). That makes it more fun (feeling). You actually get a sense of progress and exploration (another feeling).

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 19:18:39 2014 No.1515891 >>1515882 First explain to me why the people who think the 2010 style is better are wrong according to universal values.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 19:21:09 2014 No.1515895 >>1515887 >objectively speaking, factually speaking Once again you demonstrate your ignorance of the word objective.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 19:24:39 2014 No.1515903 >>1515895 objective: (of a person or their judgment) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts. >not influenced by personal feelings >not influenced by personal opinions >considering facts >representing facts

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 19:25:10 2014 No.1515905 >>1515895 Why are you talking to yourself? I'm over here. Try reading the dictionary some time, champ.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 19:30:39 2014 No.1515917 >>1515903 Good. Now apply that and you won't be such an idiot.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 19:34:09 2014 No.1515927

>>1515917
Are you seriously telling someone who proved you wrong, by posting a dictionary definition contradictory to your smug post, that not only is that definition right, but somehow you're still correct and they're an idiot? What goes on in your head, exactly?

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 19:38:10 2014 No.1515931

>>1515903
This is impossible, of course. The supposed thesis/antithesis of subjective/objective in modern English is a relic of analytic philosophy's assumptions about the nature of reason and its relationship with the mind (see faculty pschology).

All statements are made from a viewpoint of some kind, logic and reason are impossible without subjective motivation, and an objective treatment of vidya gaems is a Quixotic quest for a self-contradiction.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 19:40:39 2014 No.1515938 >>1513236 Way to pick the three most popular SNES RPGs without hesitating to include the most overrated (Earthbound), but there are better RPGs on the SNES.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 19:42:10 2014 No.1515946 >>1515653 Good points all around. PS had Chrono Trigger as well.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 19:42:10 2014 No.1515947 >>1515931 >This is impossible Only if you're a child or possess the mentality of one.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 19:44:39 2014 No.1515949 >>1515931 Eh? You can program a computer to generate proofs of random logical statements. Wouldn't that effectively diassociate a statement like "Given A and given A implies B, then B" from a subjective viewpoint?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 19:45:39 2014 No.1515950 >>1515931 Of course there are objective things you can say about games, they're just not interesting or relevant to quality.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 19:48:39 2014 No.1515956

>>1515947
Don't fool yourself, you are human after all.

>>1515949
Unless you subscribe to the correspondence theory of truth and meaning, no.

You have to remember that mathematics and logic are the way they are because of the structure of the human brain.

>>1515950
Just because everybody agrees with a statement doesn't make it objective.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 19:48:39 2014 No.1515957

>>1515950
>they're just not interesting or relevant to quality.

Not entirely true. They can tie in to the subjective reasons someone likes something.

But yes, you can't objectively say what's good nor not. Like objectively, Final Fantasy IV is a longer game than Contra Hard Corps. But I like Contra Hard Corps much better.

Also, why are you guys even still responding to this dude pretending you can objectively analyze the quality of a game? This dude is lol and quite possibly a ruseman.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 19:49:09 2014 No.1515960

>>1515957

See, look at this >>1515956

>Just because everybody agrees with a statement doesn't make it objective.

This dude isn't even arguing your points anymore. You never made the claim that "these people agree therefore it's objective".

Don't fall further down this hole arguing with a retard.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 19:52:39 2014 No.1515965 >>1515960 I am saying that there is in fact no standard by which one can determine whether a statement is objective.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 19:53:39 2014 No.1515968 >>1515938 Earthbound has a lot of good things going for it. The dialogue was almost entirely written by a single, very notable author in Japan. It's why the game has such a distinctive atmosphere. Very few JRPGs are written like that.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 19:54:09 2014 No.1515975 >>1515965 You mean no universal standard. Anybody can pick one and run with it, and it just happens that there is a very common one that everyone uses.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 19:55:09 2014 No.1515978

>>1515965
Okay then, smart guy, refute the following:

>Super Mario World has a cape which gives Mario the ability to fly.

This is something that can be determined by playing the game, and no one is going to dispute it. Wait, why am I responding to you? Nah, son. Nah. No more.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 19:55:09 2014 No.1515981 >>1515978 The dude isn't flying, he's just falling with style.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 19:56:09 2014 No.1515985 >>1515981 get out of here woody

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 19:58:10 2014 No.1515992

>>1515956
>Just because everybody agrees with a statement doesn't make it objective.
Sure it does. If something is consistent among all viewpoints, it's fact. Everything will be judged through the human lens until we meet aliens from a dimension we don't understand.

>>1515965
Of course there's a standard, that's how science operates.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 19:59:39 2014 No.1515995 >>1515968 That's all fine and good, but there's more to RPGs than funny dialog. Don't get me wrong, I like EB, but it was behind its time in many respects, and there are much better RPGs of its era.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 19:59:39 2014 No.1516000

>>1515978
>no one is going to dispute it.
This means nothing. I have already declared that just agreeing about something doesn't make it "objective".
All language, mathematics, and logic are products of the physical brain and depend on it for a reference point.
Objectivity implies a perfect, immutable reference point beyond this reality, and depends on Cartesian dualism. Cast off the obsolete trappings of a bygone era.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:00:39 2014 No.1516004 >>1515995 Some people may value charm over technical excellence. Just depends on the person.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:01:09 2014 No.1516007 >>1515995 I think it's fair to include it in an example set due to its distinctive nature. It indicates the breadth of what's available on the console, as opposed to the depth.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:04:09 2014 No.1516021

>>1515992
The term 'fact' is fine, as it is contingent on human understanding. But not objective fact. Big difference.

As far as how science operates, that's certainly an oversimplification. All science can do is create models of how we observe the real world to behave, using conceptual metaphors to render exotic phenomena more intelligible to our brains, which are helplessly dependent on the five senses to understand anything.

These models are known to be inaccurate, and while science strives for impartiality and repeatability, the language of science, the goals of science, and the methodology of science are all dependent on the human brain structure, which we are now only beginning to understand at a level of abstraction high enough to empirically inform our philosophy.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:06:09 2014 No.1516027 [DELETED]

>>1516000
>I have already declared that just agreeing about something doesn't make it "objective".
Oh okay, and I've declared that grass is purple.

>All language, mathematics, and logic are products of the physical brain and depend on it for a reference point.
Good thing we're not dealing with anyone without a physical brain, eh? Except you, maybe.

>Objectivity implies a perfect, immutable reference point beyond this reality, and depends on Cartesian dualism.
Objectivity only has to mean something is currently irrefutable. We don't need your true super ultimate mega objectivity because there is no standard in existence that hurts our current concept of objectivity.

>Cast off the obsolete trappings of a bygone era.
Go back to cryosleep, spaceman.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:07:10 2014 No.1516031 >>1516021 Can't we instead consider the subject-objective pair a continuum? And the fact becomes more objective according to how its relationships with the perceived world corroborate it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:08:09 2014 No.1516034 >>1516031 That would make subjectivity worthless, a word only useful to describe schizophrenic ravings.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:10:09 2014 No.1516038 >>1516034 How so? Just because "size" is a continuum, doesn't mean that "small" is worthless as a description.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:10:40 2014 No.1516036 >>1516021 >science informs philosophy Other way around. >muh scientism go back to /lit/, pseudo-intellectual.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:12:09 2014 No.1516040

>>1516021
Fact and objective fact are interchangeable. Look at the word objective, and how the root word is object. It describes how you view something. You view it as an object and not a subject.

Protip: Since everything came from the human mind, so did the word objective. It too follows the standards of the human mind. It does not refer to anything imperceivable.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:14:39 2014 No.1516045 /vr/ - philosophy 101 strokefest

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:15:39 2014 No.1516047 [DELETED]

>>1516027
It is still generally thought in many circles which discuss metaphysics and philosophy that language, logic, and mathematics are in fact not dependent on physical brains for their origin and structure.

The mind is seen as some sort of autonomous entity independent of imagination and emotion, which are seen as weak and useless. This is also the origin of the erroneous concept of "free will".

It's a nutty viewpoint, but it still informs a great many ideologies even in the 21st century.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:16:09 2014 No.1516049 Channers debating philosophy. Even worse than debating science just because of lack of pop-philosophy publications to help you comprehend the most insignificant and least intellectual strength requiring parts. laugh. end this thread /thread

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:17:39 2014 No.1516051 I don't know about you guys, but I'm going to heat up some chilli, grab a beer, and play Final Fantasy 7. You're welcome to join me. Or you can just stay here and have fun.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:18:09 2014 No.1516054 >>1516047 >It's a nutty viewpoint You have no authority to say so and that includes the rest of your post. The style of your writing shows your knowledge of things to be informal and incomplete. This goes for the rest of you.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:18:39 2014 No.1516056 >>1516047 Welp, in that case, objectivity exists purely, and if not, then it still exists to our human standards.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:19:39 2014 No.1516057 hurr durr nihilism muh dawkins le god is dead mfw too weak to kill myself xd

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:19:39 2014 No.1516058 >>1516051 This isn't fun, man! This is 4chan!

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:20:09 2014 No.1516062 [DELETED]

666 HAIL SATAN
KILL ALL NIGGERS
BRINGER OF MEANINGLESSNESS
I AM THE DARK
THE DARK KNIGHT
666 HAIL SATANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:21:39 2014 No.1516065

>>1516036
Assumed premises from philosophy dominated science in general for nearly the entire 20th century, and held back cognitive science in particular until very recently. Philosophy of science is all well and good, but with our expanding knowledge of higher-level brain structures, it is time to have a science of philosophy.

>>1516040
Humans have shown no limits as far as inventing words to describe things that are fundamentally imperceivable and logically inconceivable.

>>1516054
>knowledge of things
>informal
>incomplete
Is this a very funny reference to formal logic and Gödel's theorem?

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:22:09 2014 No.1516067 [DELETED]

RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR
>i swear you used to be able to include more text
>fuck moot trying to make this shitty website "respectable" you're a bunch of dumb fucks a

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:26:40 2014 No.1516072 >>1516065 What are some fundamentally imperceivable and logically inconceivable things? Besides this discussion.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:27:39 2014 No.1516074 >>1516065 Pseudo-intellectual jackoff.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:28:09 2014 No.1516078 >>1516067 Yeah pretty sure there's a text limit now, it gets annoying when you feel like writing autistic walls of text as a response, but it was probably put in to reduce spamming, as you just noticed.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:28:39 2014 No.1516076 >>1516072 >fundamentally imperceivable and logically inconceivable things? Anything that isn't muh atheism and muh brain

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:29:09 2014 No.1516080 >>1516076 You forgot muh fedora.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:30:09 2014 No.1516082 >>1516072 God, square circles, the vision of tetrachromats, 11-dimensional objects. We're limited in what we can conceive of by our five senses. Sense experience determines the base domains we use to create conceptual metaphors.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:30:40 2014 No.1516083 This thread reminds me of having to read Ethics by Spinoza freshman year and wanting to put a bullet in my brain.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:31:39 2014 No.1516085 >>1516074 This is your punishment for daring to use the word 'objective' so recklessly.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:32:39 2014 No.1516087 File: 59 KB, 480x360, 139535544652.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1516082 >Positivism

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:34:09 2014 No.1516095 >>1516082 Those are just normal, sensible words put together to make nonsense, like "actually chicken McNuggets". Except God, which is a single word representing normal, sensible words put together to make nonsense.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:34:09 2014 No.1516096 >>1516087 I dare you to come up with a concept or description of time that is not metaphorically reliant on sensory domain concept schema.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:35:39 2014 No.1516098 [DELETED]

Beer, chilli, and FF7 anon here. What RPGs are you guys playing tonight?

I switched the chilli for some fish, but the beer and FF7 are still how I'm going to spend my night. Square was fucking quality in the 90s. They kept knocking it out of the park. And to think there were still some good titles we didn't get, like Live A Live, Seiken Densetsu 3, and Treasure of the Rudras.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:36:39 2014 No.1516105 >>1516098 RPGs? Just Ultima. Gonna try to get my girlfriend into Underworld.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:38:09 2014 No.1516110 >>1516082 >God, square circles, the vision of tetrachromats, 11-dimensional objects. Arbitrary and idiotic criteria.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:40:39 2014 No.1516112 >>1516095 >/r/atheism >mfw when you kill yourself when you realize you actually aren't smart

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:40:39 2014 No.1516113 >>1516098 Xenogears. Only a couple hours in, not sure what to think of the game so far. This coffee is pretty nice, though.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:42:10 2014 No.1516115 >>1516096 >i dare Child. Go back into your hole, George Lakoff.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:48:39 2014 No.1516128 >>1516112 Is there something that offends you about saying no deities exist? You seem upset.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:55:43 2014 No.1516148 >>1516128 >le newfag face >le think like every other dumb edgy kid >lestupidkidwithgoddelusionbook.jpg >muh reddit

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:57:43 2014 No.1516151 fuckin moot really fucked everything up fuckin javascript nigger sage nigger

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 21:15:12 2014 No.1516185 >>1516148 Oh fuck, I'm sorry, everyone should believe in God now because fucking Reddit ruined Atheism FOREVER. You dumb faggot, quit trying to fit in so much.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 23:20:03 2014 No.1516484 >>1516098 Stop trying to derail the thread, faggot. I bet you're the allcaps loser too.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 3 00:02:24 2014 No.1516563 >>1513236 Chrono Trigger and FFVI are both available on PSX.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 3 00:04:54 2014 No.1516565 >>1516563 If you've played SNES FF6, the PSX version is like the feeling of having to hold in your piss for hours.

Anonymous Thu Apr 3 00:44:06 2014 No.1516651

Chrono Cross > Chrono Trigger

But in terms of the vastness and oddballs thanks to the resurgence of quality fan translations you can now play? The SNES wins out. Who would have actually thought an RPG based on Sailor Moon would be decent? (And just like anime, Sailor Moon RPG > DBZ RPG)

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 3 01:27:41 2014 No.1516723 File: 36 KB, 500x477, 1357159560288.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1515871 >Don't rate games by how much you like them.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 3 01:52:28 2014 No.1516754 Super Nintendo because they got the length just right. A lot of PS1 JRPGs I played felt like they added in a bunch of filler to have them last more than 30 hours.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 3 01:54:58 2014 No.1516759 >>1516754 Such as?

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 3 01:58:28 2014 No.1516762 >>1516759 Off the top of my head there was DQVII, FFVII, FFVIII, and Star Ocean 2.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 3 02:10:29 2014 No.1516787 >>1516762 Dragon Quest 7 is an anomaly. The others can be finished in about 30 hours, and neither Final Fantasy has anything that could be considered filler.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 3 13:12:58 2014 No.1517523 >>1516045 Hahaha best post in thread. Also fuck this thread

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 3 13:23:28 2014 No.1517541 File: 35 KB, 255x233, 1393598989542.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] One word: Xenogears

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 3 14:18:53 2014 No.1517690 >>1513158 I lel'd

Anonymous Thu Apr 3 14:30:40 2014 No.1517716 [DELETED]

>>1517541

The problem with Xenogears is that it takes, like...ten goddamn hours for anything to become interesting.

My favorites on the PS1 are Suikoden II and Chrono Cross. Say what you will about CC, but that game grabbed me from the beginning and I just wanted to know more about what was going on.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 3 14:31:40 2014 No.1517721 File: 45 KB, 550x290, dragon quest vii.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1516759

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 3 14:45:40 2014 No.1517743 >>1516762 I beat FFVII in about twenty hours. I think it's actually quite a bit shorter than FFVI.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 3 15:31:40 2014 No.1517830 How the fuck did we go from talking about JRPGs to debating philosophy? Reading /vr/ discussing philosophy is just as painful as reading /v/ trying to discuss business. Nothing is worse than people trying to discuss a topic they know nothing about.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 3 15:35:10 2014 No.1517839 OK OP, I'll bite. What IS the difference between the PS1 and the PSX?

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 3 15:59:10 2014 No.1517919 >>1517839 For starters, one came out in 1994 and the other in 2003.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 3 16:13:13 2014 No.1517957 SNES

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 3 16:42:26 2014 No.1518009 File: 272 KB, 831x772, xenogears.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1517830 We all know JRPG's have the deepest philosophy. You shall be as gods, /vr/. You shall be.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 3 17:51:46 2014 No.1518187 >>1515938 Like what? The only others I can think of are the Breath of Fires and Mario Rpg, along with the ShadowRun one (if you can consider it an rpg)

Anonymous Thu Apr 3 17:57:16 2014 No.1518201
File: 17 KB, 272x264, hur.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Chrono Cross, Suikoden I+II, FF7/9, Tales of Destiny, Xenogears, BoF 3+4, Star Ocean, Valkyrie Profile, Wild Arms, Grandia, Lunar and Legend of Legaia all blow every single SNES rpg out of the water on their own, no contest.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 3 18:04:16 2014 No.1518218 >>1518201 Yeah, SNES has some gems, and even if we ignore the PSX ports and let the SNES have credit for them (looking at you Chrono and FF4-5-6), the playstation is an rpg utopia.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 3 18:38:47 2014 No.1518272 >>1516095 >tips fedora >>1516185 Pseudo-intellectual bullshit isn't limited to just Reddit. Obnoxious atheism exists.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 3 19:42:16 2014 No.1518406 >>1518272 Maybe you should stop dragging the thread back into off-topic discussion just because you got your jimmies rustled by the mere mention of deities being imaginary. You're more obnoxious than those euphoric Reddit fedoras.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 3 19:44:46 2014 No.1518412 I can't think of any SNES exclusive RPGs that the PSX doesn't have. Even Der Langrisser is on the PSX.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 3 19:44:46 2014 No.1518413 >>1518406 >Complains about people being obnoxious and derailing >Proceeds to be obnoxious and derail the thread Good job.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 3 19:46:16 2014 No.1518417 >>1518412 *that I'd want to play. Though I'd usually rather play any game on the SNES over the PSX. Especially in a game where you are bringing up menus all the damn time. Those extra seconds add up.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 3 19:47:16 2014 No.1518420 >>1518412 Secret of Mana Earthbound Super Mario RPG

Anonymous Thu Apr 3 20:10:16 2014 No.1518479 [DELETED]

>>1518413
>it's derailing to ask someone to stop derailing
>it's obnoxious just because you feel like saying so
>criticizing someone for doing what they're complaining about, while doing the same thing
>COMPLAINCEPTION
Ssshhh, calm yourself. That could've been the end and yet you continue. Please don't respond to this post.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 3 20:19:48 2014 No.1518497 >>1518479 >Doing the same thing I'd say he wasn't nearly as obnoxious as you because you didn't inject more bullshit into the post. Just called you out for being a hypocrite. And then you kept responding.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 3 20:21:30 2014 No.1518504 >>1518479 >please don't respond to this post >no, shhh, I must have the last word >If you respond you are worse than me even though I am literally doing the same thing >look at how much better I am than you

Anonymous Thu Apr 3 20:34:58 2014 No.1518529

>>1518497
Not the same person. Just gets old seeing an endless chain of people calling each other obnoxious. Even you are posting just to weigh in. We should all stop.

>>1518504
You can have the last word if you want, buddy. I won't shush you either, if you want to keep responding. I just think it'd be nice if we all stopped. You're not worse than me if you respond, it's equally terrible, but somebody has to suggest we stop. I mean look at the reply chain, the guy had to go several posts up the thread just to reply to some Atheist post from yesterday.

I'm gonna take my own advice and stop posting off-topic now.

>>	Smile Thu Apr 3 20:34:58 2014 No.1518530 >"playing" rpgs lol all rpgs have the same "gameplay," this is why the genre hasnt evolved since dragon quest v the only reason to "play" an rpg is the story, so save yourself 20+ hours and read a wikipedia synopsis

Anonymous Fri Apr 4 07:30:42 2014 No.1519662
File: 32 KB, 479x317, 1393019484695.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>1513401
>I could give you that for Earthbound but neither Chrono Trigger or FF6 are overrated by any stretch.

Chrono Trigger is more overrated than Earthbound. Not only that but Chrono Trigger doesn't even deserve the praise it gets. It's a dull game that feels like a chore to play. Soundtrack is great though.

Anonymous Fri Apr 4 11:46:45 2014 No.1519991

>>1518218
>>1518201

Exactly. I like some SNES RPGs and all...
As much as I think Lufia II is the sleeper-hit best SNES RPG, the 32bit era produced far more far better RPGs than generations preceding it. 2D visuals were at their apex, and by the end 3D was becoming nice to look at (for a change).

There's more variety to the PSX RPG selection than the SNES. Same goes for just about any genre outside, I dunno, Mario game, lol.

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 4 13:58:40 2014 No.1520254 File: 53 KB, 500x333, 1395698365451.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1513156 >sony playstation >sony top le kek ecks dee

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 4 16:39:22 2014 No.1520617 File: 191 KB, 477x356, bait.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1518530

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 15:16:27 2014 No.1522957 If the games had been localized, the Saturn would've been in the running

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 15:24:27 2014 No.1522970 >>1522957 Really? I've never had interest in the Saturn because I've understood it as having no games except for Nights. Were there actually decent RPGs on the Saturn?

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 15:34:57 2014 No.1522990 >>1522970 -Grandia -Lunar 1&2 -Atelier Marie -Panzer Dragoon Saga -Island of the Seven Winds Story -Princess Crown -Albert Odyssey Gaiden -Phantasy Star Collection -Shining the Holy Ark -Devil Summoner & Soul Hackers -Suikoden -Magic Knight Rayearth

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 15:36:57 2014 No.1522992 >>1522990 Was the Magic knight Rayearth game for Saturn the same as the one for SNES?

Anonymous Sat Apr 5 15:38:28 2014 No.1522994

>>1522970
Plenty.

Shining Force 3
Dragon Force
Albert Odyssey
Magic Knight Rayearth
Panzer Dragoon Saga
Shining Wisdom
Shining the Holy Ark
Mystara

Then, there's the Jap exclusives like
Princess Crown (made by Vanillaware. Y'know, the guys that made Odin Sphere, Muramasa, and Dragon's Crown)
Shining Force 3's expansion packs
Dragon Force 2
Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner
Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner: Soul Hackers
Shin Megami Tensei: Ronde
Wachenroder (looks like a fucking awesome SRPG, with music by one of the guys from the /mu/core band King Crimson)
Sakura Wars
Langrisser
Riglord Saga 2 (sequel to Mystara)
Far East of Eden: The 4th Apocalypse
Black/Matrix
Farland Saga
Soldnerschild

And probably more that I'm forgetting

Anonymous Sat Apr 5 15:54:57 2014 No.1523052

>>1522970
>I've understood it as having no games except for Nights.
Even ignoring RPGs, the Saturn had Burning Rangers, Guardian Heroes, Radiant Silvergun, Clockwork Knight, Fighters Megamix, Dark Savior, Astal, Panzer Dragoon, Scud, Mr Bones, Legend of Oasis, D, Enemy Zero, etc

How is that "no gaems"?

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/vr/ - Retro Games