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/vr/ - Retro Games

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1496862 No.1496862 [Reply] [Original]

How the fuck am I suppose to get through Zio's castle without having everyone die?

Also, Phantasy Star thread.

>> No.1496871

Grinding, I guess.

>> No.1496882

>>1496871
That's what I've been doing for like 2 hours.

This is my first JRPG. Is this what they are like? Even now? No wonder they lost so much market share.

>> No.1496886

>>1496882
Old JRPGs used to be grindy as fuck. Should have started with something easier. I would've reccomended FF I and II for the GBA.

>> No.1496904

Macro abuse and combination spells, of course.

I think you can use Tri-Blaster super early.

>> No.1496986

>>1496882
Most RPGs prior to the PSX were built around the grind, yes. It is rare to find one that doesn't require at least some grinding. PS was always pretty bad in this area, even moreso than most. Hell almost the entirely of the first game was spent grinding. If it wasn't for that you could probably blow through it in just a sitting or two, because it's really not even long.

>> No.1496990

>that party order

Grinding won't help when the player doesn't understand basic gameplay mechanics. Rearrange everyone in order of highest defense to lowest defense.

Phantasy Star IV can be completed pretty easily without grinding anyway.

>> No.1496989

>>1496882
Modern RPGs are piss easy and designed to be beaten by any baby. Some, like FF13, don't even allow you to grind.

>> No.1497202

>>1496990
Thanks. Like I said I'm new to this type of game. I'll try to equip my group better and reorder them.

>> No.1497249

Ignore the terrible advice OP, you don't need to grind in PS4 except for possible for Leshiec and before Dark Force. That's twice in the game.

Re-order your party, use healing items, and feel free to warp out back to town after mapping out dead end or treasure routes in the dungeon. Then come back with full resources and take another path.

>> No.1497273

Don't hesitate to look up what a spell or an item does. There's also no reason to pay for an inn once you learn Ryuka and can easily warp back to Aiedo for a free rest at Alys' house.

Don't be too stingy with healing items as your inventory space is limited, and you'll end up having to discard a few things if you hoard too much.

>> No.1497291
File: 1.10 MB, 1280x1603, 1395811176092.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1497291

Here's how phantasy star works. Grinding or "bad design" have nothing to do with it. Neither are involved in Phantasy Star IV, which is one of the best RPGs ever.

-you use your healing items before using your mp
-using healing magic on fighters like chaz before your healers (you need that mp for boss fights)
-always leave enough mp on chaz to warp out of a dungeon
-random encounters are designed to wear you down. Only a few encounters can actually kill you from full health, and only if RNG screws you.
-the only fights that may require grinding are Lashiec (midboss) and Dark Force (end boss). They spam AOE damage every turn so you could be underleveled and just die. Nothing else requires grinding, and Zio definitely doesn't.

Pay attention to what paths you have taken in a dungeon. If you can't remember, take notes. Not strictly necessary in PS4, but taking notes is close to mandatory in PS2 unless you have photographic memory. If you clear a path and it has a great treasure, you can warp back to town and save/heal. Then go back to the dungeon and take another route. Explore every part of the dungeons in this game, as you can get the best gear that way. There are some missables, too, like Demi's ultimate attack. But its not like you need to use Demi in the endgame or anything. Fully exploring will keep your level up to what it should be, too. Treat every dungeon as an end in itself, for treasure and xp.

When you beat 4, if you liked it, you can then try the balls deep dungeon crawler that is PS2. No prisoners taken with that one.

>> No.1497319

If you're having problems with Zio, wait until you get to THAT fight later in the game.

>> No.1497329

>>1497291
I tried playing the original version of 2, but the battle sounds and background graphics turns me off.

Is the PS2 remake worthy of playing over the original one?

>> No.1497341

>>1497329
To answer the second question first, no. The art is ugly and the music is awful.

As for the first, the battle sounds are classic atari sounds. Can't think of anything more "VIDEO GAMES" than that. And the battle backgrounds looks like something from Tron. Gives it an even cooler retro feel. Something to keep in mind when judging the graphics of PS2 is that the game was released in 1989, which makes it older than FF3 on the NES.

If those are absolute killers, then the game just isn't for you, which is fine. Its a brutal dungeon crawler, so it sure as hell isn't for everyone to begin with.

But none of that applies to 4. 4 is more of a dungeon crawler than saw, Final Fantasy 6, but its more more forgiving and the dungeon designs are easier to get through by memory. You still might need to follow my advise to warp out after finishing wings and whatnot though.

>> No.1497352

>>1497341
I cleared the tower at the start of the game, guess I should give it another chance.

>> No.1497358

>>1497319
Zio is still pretty far off when you tackle his fort for the first time.

>> No.1497361

>>1496862
You can grind, I did, but it does no good, because you get to a point to where you don't get enough exp to make a difference and they still kick yo ass.

My trick was to just rush to the boss. Run from everything, and make sure to stock up on dimates because a lot of enemies are not going to let you run on the furst turn.

>> No.1497367

>>1497358
shhh, I'm not trying to spoil the story here.

>> No.1497371

>>1497361
>Running from battles

Don't heed this advice.

>> No.1497369

>>1497319
Wait till he gets to the Air Castle and has to fight Lassic. Or shit even the damn Sattelite. The first Dark Force fight was easy but just getting there is a fucking nightmare.

>> No.1497385

>>1497369
Air castle oh yes, that place is a nightmare.

That's the fight I was hinting at with Xe-A-Thoul, such a bitch.

>> No.1497383

>>1497371
Yeah...some seriously bad advice in this thread.

Grinding does SEEM to make a huge difference because levels give gradual bonuses in these games, but levelling is necessary. Grinding, i.e., running in place to trigger encounters, is not needed. But you can't just ignore random encounters.

Do stock up on dimates though.

>> No.1497389

>>1497383
*grinding doesn't seem.

Its late at night and making typos.

>> No.1497403

>>1497385
People complained about that fight being difficult but I ploughed through it no sweat.

>>1497383
>>1497371
Grinding does help in the long run but even if he is at the max level any sane person would grind to at that point in the game, those enemies are still going to give him trouble.

>> No.1497409

>>1497403
>Grinding does help in the long run

Not really.

>> No.1497415

>>1497409
Well sure because by grinding, once you reach the end boss you usually end up being 10-20 levels higher than someone who just kept progressing the story and fighting only what they had to.

>> No.1497418

>>1497403
That's what won me over to the Phantasy Star series right off the bat. The random encounters that give no shits about taking off half your health every attack. The games aren't truly that hard. Sure, you can't save before bosses, but there aren't even many bosses (and in 2, there are like 4 total in a 30ish hour game). But you can't just breeze through. You HAVE to bring healing items, you HAVE to watch your MP, and you HAVE to be prepared to bail from a dungeon if RNG fucks you and kills a member before you get resurrection spells.

I've played JRPGs since the SNES days, but only got into Phantasy Star a few years ago. 2 and 4 are now amongst my favorite titles ever.

The awesome 80s anime visuals and sound are just icing on the cake.

>> No.1497423

>>1497415
That's only if you grind in the final dungeon. Grinding anytime before that has such huge diminishing returns you're better off just progressing the plot.

>> No.1497431

>>1497403
I got really unlucky with AoE spells, plus I was caught surprised by the battle after a long grind and low hp mana

>> No.1497438

>>1497418
Yeah truly a game that requires a pinch of strategy. And that makes IV anooying, getting to the end of that dungeon and not being able to save, so you have to just be that much more careful on the boss. And the sad part is that most of the dungeons can be quite short, but the enemies can be so tough that you end up having to leave and heal and go back several times because a regular enemy one hit KO'd one of your characters.

I remember playing II, and getting to the end of the Bio Lab, full health, most of my MP and lots of healing items, then just as I get near the recorder, I run into two of those purple eyes and they both attack first with a move that sweeps the entire party and done like dinner.

>> No.1497445

>>1497249
only time i remember grinding period was to get GiSar for fight with the three space bishop looking fuckers. Rika saves the day.

>> No.1497451
File: 102 KB, 300x610, 224654-wren_large.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1497451

As soon as you get Wren, stick him in the front of your party and never, ever look back. Some of his weapons you discover might seem weaker at first, but more often than not they'll hit all enemies instead of single targets. Use those for random battles while switching to the stronger, single target weapons for bosses.

Instant kill spells are techs are incredibly useful. If a particular enemy is giving you trouble, throw an Eliminate, Diem, or Spark at it (although the latter only applies to machine enemies).

Create macros designed to deal with bosses. You should always cast Saner and Deban right away, then you can switch to macros built around pure offense, preferably with a combination attack or two built in. If you're trying to build a macro around a combo attack, then always have your slowest character go first. Otherwise you can arrange them by agility, but that usually isn't too necessary.

>> No.1497462

>>1497451
perfect post, though you forgot to mention to cast energy barrier at every boss fight

>> No.1497464

The battle engine in this was pretty awesome. Why don't more turn-based RPG's allow you to set up macros and use dual techs?

>> No.1497463

>>1497438
Phantasy Star II is the only RPG where my heart has actually been beating with adrenaline in a way that's usually reserved for when I'm on the last level of a space ship shooter with no lives left. First time shit gets real is Climatrol.

First you have to find the secret entrance. Then you have to beat a dungeon to get to the entrance of the REAL dungeon. Then the dungeon itself is no laughing matter, its a fucking maze. Oh, and then there's a boss. There are no bosses in the entire game before then. I warped out and saved my game then used my map to get back there. Because you die on that boss, you're fucked.

But that's not even the craziest dungeon in the game.

>> No.1497470

>>1497445
Like seriously, who had trouble with this fight, it was one of the easiest fights in the game.

>>1497451
Get Wren's Burst Rocktet and pair it with Foi or Flaeli for the one kick ass combo spell.

>> No.1497480

>>1497464
The Macro was a fantastic idea. I am seriously surprised no one tried to rip this off.

But the coolest thing about this game? The fights with Dark Force. He was legitimately creepy and that music kicks ass and fits im perfectly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3TA02Gk0Wo

>> No.1497539

It's a great idea to have Rune carry around two shields instead of a stupid staff that he'll never use anyway.

>> No.1497549

>>1497539
Dual wielding shields should be in more games.

Staffs do affect your magic power, though, so there's a slight tradeoff.

>> No.1497573

>>1497549
Incredibly slight. Rune already has a monstrous Mental stat. It's a much better idea to have 22 to 50 extra defense, especially once you realize the best Mental bonus a staff can give you is a piddling 4.

>> No.1497593

I'm honestly not trying to be a dick about this, but I find this game to be almost too easy to beat with little to no grinding.

I'm not judging, that's just my personal experience. I don't even think I'm that good at the game, I just don't find it that difficult. It can get away from you if you don't keep on top of things, like any JRPG, but it's far easier than any Dragon Quest game for instance.

Maybe that's the problem. I'm a huge Dragon Quest fan and I guess they're among the most difficult JRPGs. I accidentally got Special Forces training in JRPGs.

>> No.1497597

>>1497593
They aren't hard once you grasp the basic strategy, which other posters have pointed out. Its all stuff I figured out myself. I never used guides for any of the PS games, except for 3. And not because 3 is hard; its the easiest one. I used guides because its not a very compelling game and I just wanted to get to the end.

>> No.1497598

>>1497593
Maybe you should try Phantasy Star I on SMS. You have to do 20 minutes of leveling up after you leave the first town if you don't wanna get raped by mobs. The dungeon designs are pretty hard too, but that's mostly because everything looks the same due to 3D.

>> No.1497625

>>1497480
Gambits(nonretro) reminded me of macros

>> No.1497681

>>1497470
>>1497445
>>1497431
>>1497403
>>1497385

I think most people complain about the trio because they were the first boss to really fuck you up for following basic strategy.

Most people will see multiple enemies, and they open with AoE attacks. These guys take that cue to rip you a new anus.

Plus, those Dimension Worms are a pain in the ass to deal with if you don't know the trick.

>> No.1497736

Ah, my favorite game.

I remember being at least level 21 before fighting Zio. Although back when I was a kid it felt a lot harder. If I ever play through again I want to try at a lower level. I recommend giving Rune two shields, at least for the boss battles. It saves a lot of deaths. And if you go dual shield all the way he had enough TP and skill uses to justify it. Especially since his physical attack is terrible and useless anyway.

Phantasy Star 4 is the easiest game in the series. It doesn't really require much in the way of grinding. Phantasy Star 2 was more difficult. You could die right after leaving town for the first time if you weren't careful. And the first game is pretty hard as well in that respect. I never thought Phantasy Star 3 was too hard. Poison is just annoying if Mieu is out of TP and you have no antidotes.

Most of the older JRPGs are pretty grindy. It's just how they were made. Phantasy Star 4 just happened to have a low level of necessary grinding along with a good assortment of characters and abilities and the macro system. So it didn't feel as tedious. But there are other games like 7th Saga for SNES where grinding starts to feel robotic after awhile. But overall I like these kinds of games anyway.

>> No.1497759

>>1496871
>>1496882
You don't need to grind.

I stumbled upon this thread recently, and I think it illustrates the sort of strategy used in JRPGs:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/563334-phantasy-star-iv/47833653

>> No.1497767
File: 5 KB, 162x155, MECHOMAN.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1497767

Someone make a gif of this badass transforming.

>> No.1498183

>>1497681
Dimension worms? wasn't it Wat and rika claws that killed them?

>> No.1498191

>>1497202
Also make sure you are taking advantage of macros that combine party member's abilities. In particular you'll want Blizzard and Firestorm.

>> No.1498229

>>1496986
People talk about grinding in old jRPGs... the only 16bit and earlier games I ever bothered grinding in were FFIIIUS and FFV and that's only because I wanted to get everyone to have every spell/ability.
Even the supposedly hard-as-fuck and "grindy" PSII, PSIII and PSIV I never had to bother with it.
After the 32bit era hit, suddenly, every character had access to every skill and spell, so I went a-grinding in each of them. It's one of the reasons I dislike most jRPGs that are 32bit and beyond. Some exceptions are the Persona games, Wild Arms games and similar ones where characters had set skills and were unable to utilise the skills of other characters and classes.

>> No.1498232

>>1498229
I like it when games have set classes/jobs as well, if I got your post right.

FF9 is one of the last turnbased RPG's to have this afaik.

>> No.1498273

>>1498232
Exactly. Set classes. Like it. I don't like that all the characters can do everything with relatively equal proficiency. Fuck that noise.

>> No.1498272
File: 1.99 MB, 300x250, 1395852936286.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1498272

>>1497767
I couldn't resist.

>> No.1498274

>>1498232
Oh, and Radiant Historia has set classes as well. Sort of. Rather, the characters have set skills and they're not interchangeable with one another. Pretty decent RPG. Though just as linear as Chrono Shitter, I find it uses the time travel concept in a far more interesting manner.

>> No.1498358

>>1498183

Actually, it was the Gra spell tree and the Silver Tusk(maybe the Psyco Wand too...holy weapons, basically) that did any real damage to them. Anything else? 1 point. Thank gawd they had only about 10 hp.

>> No.1498369

>>1498229

PS2 was grindy for two reasons: getting lost and the fucking Neisword.

I've heard many people talk about how they had no problems with Dark Force in PS2. That's great...you got fucking lucky. No lie. It was very possible for your entire party to get 'gripped by terror' from Dark Force's unremovable status effects while the Neisword took its sweet ass time to decide it had better heal you. I've had it happen...I've seen it happen. And I'm sure plenty of other anons will vouch for this.

I question the sanity of any anons who suggest PS3 or 4 are grindy, though...PS4 has the level 99 glitch that will fuck you over(look it up), and PS3...honestly, I don't think there is any real benefit to grinding in that game, aside from bigger tech squares.

>> No.1498373

>>1498369
You will over-level by default in PS3. You do have to "grind" for a while at the beginning of the game, though, or Rhys will get killed by rappies, though.

But after that, even if you never grind, you will only hear the "easy" battle theme by the end of the game.

>> No.1498476

>>1498272

Bad news for you.

Your edgy Call of Duty with mechas game is total shit.

>> No.1498791

>>1498369
>PS4 has the level 99 glitch that will fuck you over

It's actually not that big of a deal since you'll still have ridiculously high stats that are complete overkill for everything in the game.

>> No.1498881

>>1498791
And even then, there's a patch that fixes the glitch out there.

>> No.1498934

>>1498476
>>/v/

>> No.1499030 [DELETED] 

>>1498934

>disliking a shitty game
>/v/-tard

Good one, m8

>> No.1499038

>>1499030
In the future, retro gamers will be playing TF on an old "1080" tv instead of the newer Facebook VR games on Oculus Rift.

>> No.1499270

>>1499030

It's not about what you like or dont like. It's your obnoxious /v/like attitude.

Take it back there.

>> No.1499708

>>1498272
>>1498476
Either way, I laughed heartily.

>> No.1500227

>>1498791
>>1498881

Oh, I get that it's not that big a deal, but there's always that one guy...

>> No.1500489

>>1497202
>I'll try to equip my group better
Do you not already have the best stuff available? That's why you're having difficulty.

This game is easy, there is no grinding required at all except maybe in the Air Castle which you are nowhere near. Easy as long as you know the most basic RPG gameplay concept: use money to buy useful things. You know, like armour. Don't worry about getting a sword for Chaz, there should be a laser sword (or plasma) lying in a chest in Zio's castle, from memory.

>> No.1500503

>>1497291
>-you use your healing items before using your mp
Now that's some poor advice. Healing items cost you money, healing technics do not.

>> No.1500534

>>1496862
Phantasy Star 4 is a pretty tough game in general, but the dungeons are very short. Also, don't be afraid to blow all your techs and skills, and find out what they actually do; Zio's Castle on both visits involves getting to the end. The first has no boss fight at the end, the second does.

Keep Chaz alive at all costs though, Hinas and Ryuka teleport you out of dungeons and to towns respectively. If you can't keep him alive, bring an Escapipe. Having a Warp-Out-Of-The-Dungeon item at all times is mandatory.

>> No.1500535

>>1497329
>Is the PS2 remake worthy of playing over the original one?
To contradict the other guy, it has multiple improvements, such as 8-direction walking speed, much faster movement and battles, and some minor improvements to the battle system. It remains more faithful to the source material than PS1 which completely redid the battle system from scratch.

>> No.1500539

>>1500503
Yeah, it's not like the game doesn't give you mountains of it every battle.

>> No.1500547

>>1500539
A lack of a penalty for wasting money does not justify the act of wasting money.

>> No.1500585
File: 9 KB, 247x204, Full Retard.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1500585

>>1500547
The game has an infinite amount of random battles and the boss fights in PS4 are long and difficult where you're throwing out your high level spells like nobody's business and throwing them out a second time because someone went and died.

Learn to play games. We've played this game, some of us were raised on this game, and some of us were batshit insane enough to do the Hell/Purgatory difficulty hack, and we can testify that wasting TP is much more destructive than wasting meseta since there is literally one way to restore TP in the entire game.

>> No.1501371

>>1500585

I'm not saying either strategy is superior, but I get through the game with little or no grinding, and I always use healing techniques and MP-restoring items first, and save items as a last resort.

>> No.1501373

>>1501371

>healing items, I mean as a last resort

>> No.1501682

The best JRPG's comes in the number of 4

>> No.1501738

>>1501682
Not in the world where the Suikoden, Star Ocean and Wild Arms series exist, anon.

>> No.1501752

>>1501738
Two of those have more than four games.

>> No.1501761

get good. i beat this game when i was 8.

>> No.1501769

>>1501682
>>1501752
So which series are you referring to here? I can't think of many with only four games

>> No.1501792

>>1501682
Doesn't hold true for Final Fantasy!

>> No.1502434
File: 71 KB, 360x300, Kato.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1502434

>>1501792

>> No.1502790

> also, Phantasy Star thread

So... the original Phantasy Star.

How the hell was anyone supposed to finish this without a hint book? Some dude dressed like Zeus says things like "I hear there is a gas shield in Toron" and from this you are meant to deduce that if you use the search command on the 3rd cactus from the right on the uninhabited island in the middle of the ocean you can get the item that lets you fly through the unexplained green patch on the map on a completely different planet...

>> No.1505013

bump

>> No.1505170

Nei was my waifu long before I strated watch an anime. Ph2 is the best game of the series, I'm sure.

>> No.1505181

anybody else think PSIII is weird as all fuck. Like most genesis rpgs are really damn grim.

Sword of Vermillion starts out with your fosterfather dying and PSIII feels just "cold", harsh and fucking grim. might also be the color schemes and how autistic the protag is.

If you played PSIV before you don't want to go back to PSIII. The battles are so much better in IV.