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/vr/ - Retro Games

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1483690 No.1483690 [Reply] [Original]

Is there anything like Sequelitis that looks in-depth at game design decisions in old games?

I really enjoyed Troy Gilbert's deconstruction of the original Legend of Zelda, too. http://troygilbert.com/the-legend-of-zelda/

Retro post-mortems, deconstructions, some actual game design discussion, anything you got.

>> No.1483983

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wLMW4Y6zho

>> No.1483990

>>1483690
Sequelitis was meh. Too many of his points were kind of obvious.

>> No.1484003

>>1483990
Yeah. I think people (incluiding myself) mostly watch it for the cute drawings.

>> No.1484010

>>1483690
I wanted to read that Anatomy of Zelda article, but all I got were 404s.

>> No.1484358

Fucking amazing Super Metroid analysis
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/HugoBille/20120114/9236/The_Invisible_Hand_of_Super_Metroid.php

>> No.1484373

Really Freaking Clever:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT83gHhuwL4fZ0M6UXCBdwA

I like specially his analysis of DKC3:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beDXdiQZcNs&list=PLq3Ihc1208T7syL0rr9-TUynqG8Xc3K4G

>> No.1484657

>>1483990
If they're obvious why do most people not appreciate level design and most of the things he talks about?

>> No.1484685

>>1484530
>I like how posts pointing out that you're shitposting keep getting deleted.

I think that just by using the word "deconstruction" you can easily start a shitstorm, at least on my main board.

I don't blame them.

>> No.1484689

>>1484657
because most people are fucking morons and video game communities are filled to the brim with manchildren who can't see beyond 'fun' and 'sex' as the final criteria for quality

>> No.1484690

Look for extra credits. Must episodes focuses on game design and such.

>> No.1484693

Errant Signal has a few which are fairly close to sequelitis in that he compares old and new games in a series. He does videos about other topics as well.

Doom: youtube.com/watch?v=TyOF2RsO3ck

Quake: youtube.com/watch?v=UEcYylHhQvo

Half-Life: youtube.com/watch?v=q-3gcVICiCs

>> No.1484707

This shit where shiteating e-celebrities state the obvious is really getting old.

>> No.1484708

not reviews, just interesting shit on vidya as a medium
fuck retro dependency

Hysteria: An experiment in historic interactive game narrative
http://meaningfulplay.msu.edu/proceedings2012/mp2012_submission_145.pdf

What Went Wrong with Civ 5
http://www.garath.net/Sullla/Civ5/whatwentwrong.html

A Historical Analysis of the U.S. Home Video Game Market (economist interpretation of video game history, in relation to business structure and practices)
http://strategy.sauder.ubc.ca/nakamura/iar515p/gallagher_innovation.pdf

Creative Destruction and Industry Crashes in the Early Video Game Industry 1971-1986 (more specifically about the video game in relation to itself)
http://sh.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:213024/FULLTEXT01.pdf

Games as Historical Scholarship
http://www.playthepast.org/?p=4365

Videogames and Scientific Revolutions
http://www.playthepast.org/?p=4154

The Pacman Dossier
https://home.comcast.net/~jpittman2/pacman/pacmandossier.html

>> No.1484709

>>1484708
You don’t play pinball with just your hands, you play it with the groin too. The pinball problem is not to stop the ball before it’s swallowed by the mouth at the bottom, or to kick it back to midfield like a halfback. The problem is to make it stay up where the lighted targets are more numerous and have it bounce from one to another, wandering, confused, delirious, but still a free agent. And you achieve this not by jolting the ball but by transmitting vibrations to the case, the frame, but gently, so the machine wont’ catch on and say Tilt. You can only do it with the groin, or with a play of the hips that makes the groin not so much bump, as slither, keeping you on this side of an orgasm. And if the hips move according to nature, it’s the buttocks that supply the forward thrust, but gracefully, so that when the thrust reaches the pelvic area, it is softened, as in homeopathy, where the more you shake a solution and the more the drug dissolves in the water added gradually, until the drug has almost entirely disappeared, the more medically effective and potent it is. Thus from the groin an infinitesimal pulse is transmitted to the case, and the machine obeys, the ball moves against nature, against inertia, against gravity, against the law of dynamics, and against the cleverness of its constructor, who wanted it disobedient. The ball is intoxicated with vis movendi, remaining in play for memorable and immemorial lengths of time.

>> No.1484710
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1484710

>>1484709
But a female groin is required, one that interposes no spongy body between the ileum and the machine, and there must be no erectile matter in between, only skin, nerves, padded bone sheathed in a pair of jeans, and a sublimated erotic fury, a sly frigidity, a disinterested adaptability to the partner’s response, a taste for arousing desire without suffering the excess of one’s own: the Amazon must drive the pinball crazy and savor the thought that she will then abandon it.

good luck.

>> No.1484750

>>1484010
Use the wayback machine: https://web.archive.org/web/20131210042135/http://troygilbert.com/the-legend-of-zelda/

>> No.1484783

>>1484750
Scratch that. The article is now at: http://www.anatomyofgames.com/anatomy-of-a-game/

>> No.1484818

Is the Zelda sequeliitis ever coming out, ever?

>> No.1484821

>>1484818
when game grumps and eating hot peppers stops making money

>> No.1484891

I've been following this guy for a couple of months now:
http://www.youtube.com/user/phreakindee/videos?view=0

He does mostly old game reviews, with a few modern games and hardware reviews. As well as a few misc videos. I am really, REALLY jealous of this collection. I think that's why I watch his videos.

>> No.1484923

>>1483690
Egoraptor is a retard.

>> No.1484931

>>1484923
Thank god the thread isn't about him.

>> No.1484938

>>1484657
think a little

>> No.1485113

>>1484938
They're obvious to you so you have to tout your elitism and smartness. Things he talks about are legit and made me realize some stuff, obviously it wasn't obvious to me.

>> No.1485254

>>1484690
Extra Credits is good sometimes, but I think overall they're a prime example of trying too hard and failing to see the forest through the trees.

>> No.1485343

>>1484708
no one was interested in any of this?
ouch

>> No.1485360

There's a video I saw a while back, and I'm wondering if anyone knows what I'm talking about. Hell, it might have even been posted in this thread and I didn't notice.

It was a comparison between the Legend of Zelda on NES and A Link to the Past, and how the latter really jump-started the trend of handholding and linearity, which was a downgrade from the first one.

>> No.1485376

>>1485254
they started fine, but as of late I agree, it feels like they're trying too hard, it feels they've stagnated.

It was a nice break though, from all the "these games such and here's why you suck for liking them" video reviews.

>> No.1485383

>>1485360
Didn't Miyamoto acknowledged that he believe A Link to the Past was so popular because it was easy? With all the map marking, the fortune teller and other ways to avoid you getting lost and since then built upon it?

And also stated, I believe, that the first Zelda game is his favorite one because it's the pure Zelda experience unchanged and un-nerfed.

Don't have a source though. ;_;

>> No.1485429

>>1485383
I don't have anything on the second claim, but I do know that he said A Link to the Past was intentionally made easier to appeal to a wider audience.

The video I mentioned also pointed out how it was strange people were upset about adding Sheikah Stones to Ocarina of Time 3D when the fortune tellers in LttP were the exact same thing.

>> No.1485438

>>1485429
Probably because the Sheikah Stones weren't in the original, although people could just ignore them. They felt it dumbed down the original, I think.

Thing is, I feel like we're living in a time where people don't want challenge, but just "play" the story. And even though ALttP told you where to go, it could be somewhat difficult to do it, I remember back in the day having a lot of game overs until I got "gud". And I ignored the fortune tellers because I honestly believed they'd be liars and just take away ruppees like the bazaar bear in DKC3. The tent looking super shady didn't help my case.

Could you link to the video though? Sounds interesting.

>> No.1485446

>>1485438
That's the thing, I was looking for the video and was wondering if anyone had it. I can't find it.

>> No.1485637

This thread has the exact same topic as this one.
>>1481254

>> No.1486184

>>1483690
TomashiiHiroka does ones for Pokemon games, might be the kind of thing you're looking for

>> No.1486194

All it boils down to is THIS IS WHAT WAS APPEALING TO ME AS A CHILD.

>> No.1486232

>>1486194
if you have no critical thinking skills, yeah
sequilitis might be damned basic but fuck you gotta be real stupid to have it go over your head

>> No.1486245

>>1486232
Dogshit. You're trying to pass old video games off as works of art to justify wasting your life.

>> No.1486247

>>1486245
sure why not

>> No.1486248

>>1486245
>implying video games aren't works of life

>justify wasting your life.
You aren't wasting your life if you enjoy it~

>> No.1486258

You guys should take a look at Chrontendo. The guy fucking reviews every single NES game in chronological order, and he details the important ones, also he talks about the changes in trends, evolution of game design and shit.
He also does chronsega and chronturbo, for master system and genesis and turbografx-16 games.

>> No.1486260

http://normalboots.com/video/chronocross/

I liked his analysis of Chrono Trigger to Chrono Cross. Personally, I hold Trigger and Cross very near and dear to my heart. I don't think I could actually pick a favorite and I think he touches on some good points that bring that out.

>> No.1486271

>>1484708
Sullla's Civ V essay is great along with most of his website (I've never really read his LOL or Diablo stuff). I've never seen the Pac-Man Dossier, but it seems interesting based on the <5 minutes I've read it so far.

>> No.1486280

>>1486258
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blRbaqDZjRI

>> No.1486523

>>1486271
the pacman dossier is really only interesting (from my pov) as an interaction between AI and player, and the structure of discovering of that interaction.

Out of the texts I posted, I found scientific revolutions to be the most interesting. And coincidentally, it's the shortest

>> No.1489458

>>1483983
Am I the only one who thought this was bad?

>> No.1490504

This is a great thread, guys. I don't have anything to offer but thanks for all the interesting and educational stuff to watch and read.

>> No.1490771
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1490771

>>1490504
>implying you'll look at any of it

>> No.1490794

>>1485343
Eh, I read stuff in this vein all the time. It's good, but the academic side of games studies also has a lot of crap.

But what OP might want to check out is old issues of Game Developer Magazine. They usually have a postmortem article on the development of a game, which is about all aspects but usually talks about design decisions, and they date back to 1994. Unfortunately I'm unmotivated right now to hunt through the first few years for any gems, but here you go:
http://www.gdcvault.com/gdmag

And of course, for discussion of design choices in really old games, what about Chris Crawford's first book, or Racing the Beam?

>> No.1490809

>>1484707
this.

>> No.1491153

>>1486280
Thank you for sharing this. I like how the video was pretty mellow. Didn't learn alot, but still interesting to watch for someone like me.

>> No.1491486
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1491486

>>1490771

>> No.1491494

http://www.significant-bits.com/super-mario-bros-3-level-design-lessons

>> No.1492714

>>1484693
I think his problem is that he gets too much into narrative through gameplay and not just game design.

>> No.1492725

>>1486258
Cool guy, but he may have started too many projects to ever finish. I didn't even know about Chronturbo.