/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.1471948]

/vr/, this is something I should probably ask /g/, or even /v/, it's not worth of thread but posting it in an already existent thread would be too off topic.
So I'm asking here because it's a problem that occurs mostly in retro vidya (with me), where many games uses too much the keyboard to be played.
Did you ever had any problems with your keyboard being locked when some combination of keys are pressed together? It's not even my keyboard, I have tried it in different computers and the problem is always the same.
For example, when pressing S + W + L together the keyboard don't gives you a response, the same goes for S + W + K, S + W + J. It don't happens to S + W + H or G though, but it happens with F, in every keyboard I have ever touched.
This get in the way of some games when you want to press two keys while moving your character. Do you guys know if anything can be done, or is it an architecture problem of keyboards?
Google gives me nothing, I don't even know what words use to search about it.

[Anonymous No.1471960]

Despite you not wanting to believe it, it IS the keyboard.

[Anonymous No.1471965]

>>1471960
The keyboard of my PC and laptop have the problems in the same keys, and I had this problem before in my older PC.
It can't be all coincidence, they aren't even from the same manufacturer.
Try yourself, press those keys together in the dialogue box, the letters won't appear.

[Anonymous No.1471967]

depends on the model of keyboard, most keyboards are different so different combinations of keys will cause it to fuck up

i'm not a technical expert or anything, but i'm pretty sure it has to do with the circuitry that routes keypresses to the computer- some combinations of keypresses don't work while some do.

i have an IBM model m, and i've never had a problem with any common key combinations while playing video games (WASD, the keys around there), but when i make music in my DAW i have problems with certain chords.

i've heard PS/2 allows more simultaneous keypresses than USB, so maybe try a PS/2 keyboard

[Anonymous No.1471991]

It IS the keyboard. hold both Shift keys and type
the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog
here's mine
QUIC BRO FOX UD OVR LAZY DOG

[Anonymous No.1471998]

>>1471991
Same guy just realized I have a second better keyboard in my closet because reasons, so
HE QUIK BRON FO JUPS OER HE LA DOG
I think that should kinda satisfy you for answers

[Anonymous No.1472009]

>is it an architecture problem of keyboards?

Yes, it's a problem with the keyboard.

Modern keyboards are very cheap in more ways than one. What you're experiencing is key ghosting, where the IC in the keyboard cannot differentiate which keys are being pressed if you have too many held down at once.

Which keys are affected and when depends on the layout of the circuit board, but in general you can only expect the keyboard to reliably detect up to two keys at the same time. Any more than that and it might not recognize what you're pressing.

Old quality keyboards used grids of diodes to make sure the signals from each key only pass in one direction, allowing the IC to accurately detect any number of keys being pressed simultaneously.

There has been a resurgence of interest in quality keyboards lately. You can get a mechanical "gaming" keyboard that does not have ghosting issues relatively easily, though they aren't cheap.

[Anonymous No.1472013]

>>1472009

The second problem you may run into even with a good keyboard is the USB interface itself. For whatever reason, when the spec was designed they decided to only allow it to recognize up to 6 keys at a time, even if the keyboard itself can recognize every single key on it. The ps/2 interface doesn't have this problem.

Some keyboards get around the USB limit by acting like multiple keyboards simultaneously, or by identifying themselves as a custom device with 100+ signals that just happens to act like a keyboard.

[Anonymous No.1472020]

HE QUIK BROWN FO JUPS OER HE LA DOG
>ibm model m, ps/2

[Anonymous No.1472021]

I still have an ancient ps/2 keyboard (pre windows 95; no windows key) that's pretty awesome. But I stopped using it because my current board doesn't have ps/2 and its wonky through an adapter. I bought a mechanical "gaming" keyboard and it was worth every penny. Love the noise. I think its even louder than my old one.

[Anonymous No.1472029]

>tfw got a Model M for Christmas

Truly the best gift of all

[Anonymous No.1472031]

>>1472020
>>1472029

Model Ms don't have a grid of diodes keeping the signals clean. Even though they have mechanical keys, they still have ghosting issues.

[Anonymous No.1472034]

>>1472029
i found mine at a garbage dump. don't care, love it. cleaned it, been using it for years

[Anonymous No.1472039]

>>1472034
To think that sometime in the early 2000's, thousands of them were junked by offices around the world to make room for "newer" keyboards and computers in workstations and cubicles. There's none left in my uni, though one or two appear every once in a while at the school's surplus warehouse.

I remember having one as a kid, and asked my mom what she did and why she got rid of it... "because it was old, and made a lot of noise".

[Anonymous No.1472052]

>>1472039

Around the mid-90s, rubber dome keyboards were aggressively marketed as being new, improved, more affordable and so much quieter than mechanical keyboards. The brand names generally emphasized how quiet they were. eg: Quiet Touch, QuietKey, etc...

One by one offices and households switched over to them and they became the norm.

Rather insidious piece of marketing work, really.

Mechanical key switches don't actually have to make lots of noise. They can use quiet mechanisms or be dampened. The ones that make noise are usually supposed to, as a form of feedback for the typist.

[Anonymous No.1472059]

>>1472052
ugh, capitalism. throw away your perfectly good shit so we can sell you sell you worse shit thats more profitable, gotta love it

[Anonymous No.1472076]

>>1471967
>>1472020
>>1472029
>TFW you have a Model M, but the cord just disintegrated from age or whatever it was exposed to in the basement it was found in.

[Anonymous No.1472125]

>>1472031
Model M's are still much better than the average keyboard. I can usually get between 5 to 8 simultaneous keys pressed on mine.

The thing I have noticed with newer/cheaper keyboards is that the QWERTY section and the NumPad usually have less interference with each other. On crappy keyboards, I used to use WASD for the D-Pad and the NumPad for most of the rest of the buttons. Certainly doesn't help most laptop users, though.

[Anonymous No.1473281]

>>1471948
It depends on the type of game and how much space you have, but for some games a solution is to have a second cheap keyboard connected at the same time, and use both to play.

[Anonymous No.1474521]

>H K BN FX JMS V H LZ DG

Good job, you generic piece of shit.

[Anonymous No.1474589]

>>1474521
THE QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPS OVER THE LAZY DOG
Does everyone ITT have a shit keyboard except me?

[Anonymous No.1474649]

>>1474589

THE QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPS OVER THE LAZY DOG

Matias Quiet Pro.

Even a 2kro keyboard can pass this test though, if the matrix happens to be laid out for it. iirc the Dell Quietkey keyboards can do this test but then they'll fail on you in FPS games when you're trying to maneuver, sprint and jump with the WASD cluster. You'll just fail to start running or you'll miss your jump.

[Anonymous No.1475067]

It's called rollover. You can find a keyboard that doesn't have any problems by searching for n-key rollover. Like someone said above though they usually work better through ps/2

I have my Filco Majestouch 2 plugged in by USB though and I've never had any problem
THE QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPS OVER THE LAZY DOG

THE QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPS OVER THE LAZY DOG

[Anonymous No.1475119]

I remember playing the original Tomb Raider games on PC with keyboard and ONLY keyboard controls with no mouse

while having the bonus handicap of being left-handed.

It was an exercise in major frustration.

Sure the PS1 versions took a graphical hit, but at least they were playable with the controls.

[Anonymous No.1475123]

Something's not right here...

[Anonymous No.1475130]

THE QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPS OVER THE LAZY DOG

Das Keyboard, USB

It never drops any keys as long as I stay at or below the USB 6 key limit.

[Anonymous No.1475251]

QUIC BRO FOX US OVR LAZY DOG

Wow, what the fuck...

[Anonymous No.1475592]

THE QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPS OVER THE LAZY DOG
Qpad MK50

HE QUIC BROWN OX UMP OVER HE Y OG
Some generic wireless piece of shit keyboard

[Anonymous No.1476257]

>>1474649
I haven't run into any problems with games. I'm guessing my keyboard is designed for gaming since the rest of the machine is.

[Anonymous No.1476318]

>>1471948
This phenomenon is called ghosting, and arises due to how keyboards are designed.

The keyboard keys are laid out on a matrix, which is the circuit responsible for connecting the key switch to the electronics responsible for figuring out which key is pressed. Depending on how it is designed, it might not be able to read multiple keys at the same time. This is often the case because the most common use case of keyboards is typing, where only one key is actually being pressed at any given time. Care is usually taken to allow for modifier keys such as Ctrl, Alt and Shift to be pressed with anything. This significantly reduces the cost and complexity of the hardware itself, but ends up making the input device unsuitable to certain applications, such as gaming.

How many keys you can press together is called the key rollover. A keyboard with 4 key rollover lets you press 4 keys at the same time. There are keyboards that don't quite use a matrix; they scan each key switch independently, and thus support an arbitrary number of keys pressed at the same time. This is called N-key rollover, or NKRO. They are ideal for gaming. This technology is also used in devices such as piano keyboards.

See this site for an application that will help you test and determine which keys you can press together at the same time:

https://www.microsoft.com/appliedsciences/content/projects/KeyboardGhostingDemo.aspx

[Anonymous No.1476331]

>>1471991
>>1471998

THE QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPS OVER THE LAZY DOG

Wow, even my cheap ass generic mechanical keyboard passes this test.

Like I said, modifier keys are usually handled separately. I'm sorry your keyboard makers were so moronic they didn't do that.

[Anonymous No.1476539]

>>1476257

Cheap membrane keyboards that are expected to be used for gaming tend to prioritize the usual FPS movement keys in the layout of the key matrix.

You'd be more likely to run into problems if you're a southpaw or use unusual key bindings.

[Anonymous No.1476730]

>>1476539
That sucks. I'd like to have the first hand experience of not being able to use my keyboard for gaming but it looks like I wouldn't be able to afford it

[Anonymous No.1476784]

>>1471991
using a Dynex $20 keyboard from best buy (it was on sale for $5)

HE QUIC BROWN OX UMP OVER HE Z OG

[Anonymous No.1476857]

>>1471991
THKBNFJSTHLAYDG

Yeah.... I just don't even...

[Anonymous No.1476876]

>>1472052
>Rather insidious piece of marketing work, really.

That and they aren't annoying as fuck to the people around you. I like them too, but god damn, have some self-awareness.

[Anonymous No.1476880]

Kinda fucked up my usage of pronouns there. The first sentence 'they' meant newer keyboard. The second sentence 'them' meant mechanical keyboards.

[Anonymous No.1476882]

>>1471991
TEQUICKBRONOXUMEOVERTEAZYOG

It doesn't register spaces, this is a built in keyboard from my Vaio.

[Anonymous No.1476950]

>>1476876

You should try to be less ignorant about the things.

They made keyboards with quiet or dampened mechanisms, as well quiet electrostatics.

The choice to use audible switches was intentional because it provides the typist with feedback that helps improve their accuracy. If low noise in the office was valuable to the employer, they had options for that as well.

[Anonymous No.1477050]

>>1476950
>options for that as well
Yeah, like what most keyboards that are quest and economical use today

[Anonymous No.1477483]

>>1477050

I wouldn't compare an old electrostatic to a rubberdome membrane, no.

[Anonymous No.1477520]

>>1476950
Most of the noise from a non-clicky mechanical is caused by bottoming out. You can avoid it and reduce wear on your fingers by typing properly, or you can reduce it by adding rubber o-rings to the keys for damping.

[Anonymous No.1478991]

>>1477520

Dampened mechanical switches contain rubber bumpers that take care of bottoming out. They also dampen the switch springing back up, which an o-ring around the stem can't help you with.