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/vr/ - Retro Games

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1461403 No.1461403[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

I really like Zelda games, but i don't like the first one for one very precise reason: There are no cracks in the wall, and you can't tell which bush you can burn, so you have to try every single wall and burn every single bush. It's tedious as hell.

>> No.1461405

I only wish the first game had diagonal movement.

>> No.1461431

>>1461403

But that's what I like about it. The world feels much more mysterious that way - there could be a secret anywhere. I don't like how in ALttP almost all the bombable walls had cracks. What's the point? It's the same thing as using a key to unlock a door.

>> No.1461441

>>1461431
Yeah, but it's a shit having to bomb EVERY SINGLE FUCKING WALL when you can carry max eight bombs at the time (which is enough for one screen)
With the bushes is even worse because you can use the candle once, then you have to leave the screen, re-enter and try again.

>> No.1461457

>>1461441
I just remember placing bombs and flames on the borders of squares to cover two in one shot. I made my own maps and kept very careful track of what I had tried and where, and I took note of the best places to collect more bombs. That was a large part of the fun of playing for me when I was young. Also, new items later in the game made setting fires less tedious.

>> No.1461471

I agree, that shit was tedious, but a lot of games from that era suffered a little bit from obtuse game design. I think it added to the mystery of the game. Cracks in the walls, like someone else said, might as well be locked doors. Bombing a wall with a huge, obvious crack in it to find a secret doesn't give much sense of accomplishment.

>> No.1462368

How many times are we going to have this thread? It's only relevant if you care about finding every single hidden "IT'S A SECRET TO EVERYBODY" place. And what, like maybe two heart containers?

For anything you actually need to beat the game, it's not a problem.

>> No.1462387

Just call the nintendo hotline, duh

>> No.1462420

Try playing the master quest. I still haven't beaten it because I can't find the fourth dungeon.

>> No.1462432

>>1461441
You can usually tell which wall will have a bomb (it has a blank space next to it on the map), and it's always dead center.

Even bombing cave walls in the overworld is still pretty easy to figure out, and mostly unnecessary anyway.

>> No.1462434

>>1462368
PAY ME FOR THE DOOR REPAIR CHARGE.

>> No.1462441

>>1462434
I thought that shit was pretty funny.
They do a similar thing in the Japanese version of Kid Icarus, where sometimes haggling with the shopkeeper to make the items less expensive only makes him angry, so he doubles the prices.

>> No.1462470

Back in those days, games were short. Zelda is also short. You can beat it quickly if you know exactly what to do. But by giving the player an open world and making the path non-linear and non-obvious, they created a game that feels huge and could take weeks for a new player to complete.

In most cases, the game was beaten through word of mouth. Kids shared their discoveries on the playground and pieced it all together. If you didn't have friends, there was Nintendo Power and their hotline. Go to gamefaqs if all you want to do is beat it quickly.

You kids, I swear. Somebody was just complaining here the other day about how GTA 5 doesn't tell you what the unlockables are until you unlock them. Is it not enough that a game holds your hand through the story, but has to hold your hand through all the secrets too? Pretty soon you'll be complaining that cheat codes aren't simply options on the home screen.

If you don't like Zelda, then what DO you like about retro gaming?

>>>/v/

>> No.1462789

>>1461403

IT'S CALLED ADVENTURE!

>> No.1463169

>>1461441
You can actually increase your bomb count twice in both quests, for a total of 16

>> No.1463189

>>1462470
>If you don't like Zelda, then what DO you like about retro gaming?

Because Zelda is literally the only retro game.

The original LoZ is one of my favorites in the series, but stop bullshit like this. I hate it when you people try to act like there are any games that everyone who plays retro games have to like. No, they don't have to like anything. There are thousands of /vr/ games out there.

>> No.1463492

>>1462470
I have a friend and she mentioned she likes Mortal Kombat, so I suggested we play some MKII.
The first thing she did when the match started was press start to look for a list of moves.
Apparently the earliest MK she ever played was Deadly Alliance, and the lack of a moves list made her lose interest in MKII pretty quick.

>> No.1463501

>>1463492
That's legit, fighters should have movesets.
>muh retro
>excusing shitty decisions

>> No.1463514
File: 75 KB, 640x480, zelda_nes_stairs-334459.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1463514

>Every single bush

...There is one bush you have to burn and it's fucking obvious. Look at it. Look at at of place that bush is placed. Don't tell me you wouldn't burn that specific bush on your first try.

As for bombs, you just have to conserve them...and don't bomb indiscriminately. You should be able to get a good guess on which walls to bomb based on the layout of the dungeon map.

The crack in the wall thing is pointless. I mean, it's just literally saying 'Bomb this' with no room for the player to use logic or figure anything out. And with how easy it is to get bombs in later Zeldas there's no point, might as well just be a fucking door.

>> No.1463571

>>1461403
I understand where you're coming from OP. I too have had problems with that. I think the problem is that you (and I) weren't able to play it as it was intended, which is to say, with a bunch of playground friends also playing alongside us. The game was purposely designed to force players to share info with each other, and so it was probably on purpose that you couldn't realistically find everything without a great amount of tedium. You were expected to sort of band together with friends and test stuff, which meant less work for everyone if you divided it up. Of course nowadays it's tougher to find those people to work with you.

On the positive, most of the 'how are you supposed to know that' bushes and rocks just hold optional rupees and heart containers. It's a hard game for sure, but you don't really need all of that extra stuff to beat the game. It just helps to make it easier on you. The few times that it's an entrance to a dungeon, it's usually more prominent than the more obnoxiously hidden heart containers and stuff.

>> No.1463579

>>1462470
Whoa man, you were good for two mini-paragraphs, and then suddenly you go full old man on us. I understand where you're coming from, but don't jump to conclusions about people just because something they do irks you.

>> No.1463584

>>1463514
The best moments I had in Link Between Worlds was noticing an odd bit of landscape, tapping it with my sword, and hearing the odd "tink" and THEN planting the bomb

Cracked walls a shit

>> No.1463630

Zelda wasn't quite as obtuse in Japan. The English translation is pretty shoddy in some parts, which led to confusion back in the day.

More info:

http://legendsoflocalization.com/the-legend-of-zelda/first-quest/

>> No.1463675

>>1463501
If it's a combo based game, then yeah. But a moves list in Mortal Kombat would've taken a lot of fun out of it

>> No.1464480

1. The manual said that every screen on the overworld holds a secret.
2. Every screen landscape is either shrubbery or rock.
3. All bombable walls lie on north-side and either the right or left. And never in the center.
4. Burnable shrubs are found one tile from the edge of the screen or places that stand out.
5. Nothing is found on the edge of the screen.

>> No.1465627

>>1461431
M-Muh nostalgia

>> No.1465636

>>1463675
>Knowing your character's three special moves would have ruined the fun

How exactly is not knowing how to play fun?

>> No.1465641

>>1463501
Agreed. Not that you can't have movelists or just print out the moves. Though it's 100% dickmove to check movelists in the middle of a match. You either specify practice mode/rounds or you deal with what you know.

>> No.1465642

>>1463514
The problem is you're saying that from a position of knowing what and where. Which is invalid from a new players perspective.

>> No.1465905

>>1465636
It made learning the moves more exciting.
Especially in two player mode.
Maybe I'm biased because I'm basing it off my own memories, but back then pulling off a bicycle kick was something to be proud of.

>> No.1465915

>>1461431
>>1461403
In ALttP, you can also tap your sword against the wall, and it rings at a different pitch when the wall is bombable. Does the original have the sword tap? You wonder why they would include both cracks and taps, if just one sign is adequate to verify in advance that the wall is bombable.

But I seem to remember areas in ALttP where I was testing all of the walls with my sword. I can't remember the circumstances or why I was doing this. It must've been:
1.) not all the bombable walls are visibly cracked
2.) it was an area where all the walls were cracked and NOT bombable, like cracked walls was just the design of the dungeon or something
3.) i was stuck somewhere and doing the "try-everything" technique in my effort to progress, checking every wall for bombability just in case

>> No.1465925
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1465925

>>1464480
>4. Burnable shrubs are found one tile from the edge of the screen or places that stand out.
So which is this? One tile from the edge or a tile that stands out?
There are 3 different types of columns that can have burnable bushes. All bushes in one kind of column are always in the same row. Horizontal location is irrelevant for bush location.

>1. The manual said that every screen on the overworld holds a secret.
Well there are plenty of screens that don't hold secrets, so whether the manual says they all do doesn't really help the player.

>> No.1465950
File: 31 KB, 692x606, 2014-03-13 loz 002.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1465950

>>1465925
>implying that a screen's secret must pertain to a bombable or torchable tile on that same screen

Count the tiles: from the doorway at H, your staircase is the exact, equidistant opposite of the staircase at L.

>> No.1465958

I'm with the OP... sort of. I really can't stand the first game because:

No diagonal movement and overall awkward controls (this hurts the game most imo)
Trying to figure out what bushes to burn can be tedious as hell
Not being able to get swords until you have the right amount of heart containers is bullshit with no context
Rupee grinding


That said, I still agree with >>1462432. Most of the time, finding bombable walls is pretty easy. The only complaint is that the hitbox for finding the caves with bombs should be larger, imo. There were times that I knew the location of the cave beforehand, bombed, and didn't hit even though another bomb revealed the cave to be in the previous bomb's explosion radius. I actually like non-cracked walls better than cracked walls that appear in later games, but the above 4 things just kill the game for me

>> No.1465969

>>1465950
And that means... what?
That a store being located -13x+17y respectively +13x-17y from two burnable bushes is a secret?

>> No.1465979

>>1465969
Not the store, moron; the staircase. It means that you're a lazy piece of shit for not putting the clues together.

>> No.1465987

>>1465979
To be fair that is motherfucking obscure as hell, and I love Zelda on the NES.

>> No.1465989
File: 3 KB, 256x224, NES_Super_Mario_Bros.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1465989

Lately, there's been a lot of bashing of Legend of Zelda and Metroid for the NES here on 4chan. What's next? The original Super Mario Bros, too?

I think most gamers would agree that A Link to the Past, Super Metroid and Super Mario Bros 3 were improved versions of the original, but they doesn't mean the originals are bad, now.

>> No.1465990

>>1465979
So this has nothing at all to do with the claim that there aren't secrets on every screen?

>> No.1465997

>>1465989
SMB1 is arguably better than SMB3. Less variety but better pacing.

>> No.1466000

>>1465997
Right. It's 'arguably' better. I would argue that SMB3 is far superior.

>> No.1466002

>>1465997
>>1466000
Both are great. Super Mario World is the one I take fault with.

>> No.1466148

>>1466002
I don't get the hate for SMW. Unless you hate it because it's not difficult enough, which I think is still a silly reason to dislike a game. It wasn't so easy that it was a cakewalk.

>> No.1466171

>>1465915
There's a bug in ALttP where there's no different souding sword taps on bombable walls when you do it on the overworld. As far as I can recall though, there are some dungeons that use cracked walls as decoration, which always confused me.

>> No.1466272

>>1466148
I don't hate Super Mario World. It's a fine game. It was just a big disappointment for me after playing Super Mario Bros 3.

>> No.1466298

super mario world has the best 2d mario controls. shits so smooth

>> No.1466320

>>1466148
It becomes difficult again when you attempt to do all the special worlds as small mario without super-moon abilities

>> No.1466370

>>1465627

Are you serious? It has nothing to do with nostalgia.

>> No.1466375

>>1465989

SMB3 is certainly not an improvement over the original.

>> No.1466403 [DELETED] 

>>1466320
It's not Super Mario World's difficult that disappointed me. It was the lack of variety, repetitive level-designs, un-spectacular sound, and slow/boring stages that did me in.

>> No.1466410

>>1466320
It's not Super Mario World's difficulty that disappointed me. It was the lack of variety, repetitive level-designs, un-spectacular sound, and slow/boring stages that did me in.

>> No.1466416

>>1466375
Super Mario Bros. 3 was a bigger and expanded version of the original, though. Whether or it not it's a better game is a matter of opinion. But who can deny that SMB3 was bigger, had more power-ups, etc.?

>> No.1466430

>>1466416
Quality over quantity.

>> No.1466472

>>1466416

I'd go a step further and say Super Mario 3 was not only better than SMB1, but it was the best game in the whole NES library.

>> No.1466478

>>1466430
While I am not saying that you are wrong, I do think that the expanded options did result in some interesting game play and level design that wasn't really possible in the original. Sure there were a lot of things I would say were also lackluster because of it, I'm less eager to throw the baby out with the bathwater, as it were.

>> No.1466507

I don't like the because the overworld looks like a barren desert and the dungeons are just rectangle rooms

maybe if i grew up playing it, it would be different