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/vr/ - Retro Games

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1450487 No.1450487 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

We're all over of Doom clones. However, was there anything worthwhile based on Wolf3d? I've always been a fan of the vibrant colorful look and the idea of a score and life-based FPS grew on me.

Also general Wolf3D thread. Do you guys still play it and find it fun?

>> No.1450493

>Do you guys still play it and find it fun?
No, it aged terribly and there is no decent source port.

>> No.1450497

Yes there is anon, Wolf4SDL.
No fancy new features, just Wolf on modern systems without hassle.

>> No.1450612
File: 15 KB, 320x200, BarneysteinShot2.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Well, Barneystein was the first TC I ever played. That was glorious, including the t-file that came with it that was, at the time, the largest document I'd ever read on a CRT.

I think the one thing Wolf has that's still interesting is a slightly more arcade-y aspect than Doom with all the loot. I do fire it up once a decade or so, but I play the original (Castle Wolfenstein) way more frequently.

As for copies of Wolf, there was Ken's Labyrinth. And a lot of games that aped Doom were still using Wolf-like engines because it was more quickly reverse-engineered than Doom. But other than that, nope.

>> No.1450726

>it aged terribly

Sometimes I start it up to fight the bosses in Spear of Destiny but no, there isn't much about the game to make me interested in playing it these days. I like the sound effects and colors and shooting the enemies still has a dumb sense of satisfaction to it, but it's too simple to hold my attention.

>> No.1450801

WOLF3D had the most satisfying kills of any FPS. Playing on Ultra Violence and mowing down hundreds of enemies in tight corridors was heavenly.

>> No.1450857

>Ultra Violence
Ya goofed. I liked Wolf's difficulty names better than Doom's. I'd rather select "I AM DEATH INCARNATE" than Ultra-Violence.

>> No.1450925
File: 128 KB, 345x294, 1354477554921.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>No, it aged terribly

If you are gonna use that argument then list reasons for why you think so. Not listing any just makes me think you want an excuse to shit all over an older game but can't find any good reasons so you just claim it "aged" bad.

>> No.1450968

It just aged badly. The engine is very limited, it only allows levels that are mostly mazes with the same walls and rooms over and over. The graphics are dated with no texturing or any other effects and contribute to every rooms looking the same as every room. Walls can only make 90 degrees corners, floors only have one elevation and thus level design is extremely limited.

>> No.1450986
File: 15 KB, 400x400, inigomontoya.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>no texturing
What do you think those patterns on the walls are?

>> No.1450992
File: 124 KB, 720x540, 1349681639291.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Alright man thanks for listing your reasons. It just annoys the shit out of me when someone claims a game aged poorly without listing any reasons why.

>> No.1450993

How has that changed over the years? It's not like there wasn't a more capable engines available at the time.

>> No.1450996
File: 57 KB, 641x401, extra crispy, please.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I sure love creative difficulty level names.

>> No.1451010

>How has that changed over the years?
Our expectations have changed.
When I first played the shareware episode of wolf3d I thought it was the best thing ever. When Doom came out it blew it away. Doom lies in the sweet spot where its limitations do not prevent enjoyment and thus it still has an active mod community.

>> No.1451012

Don't ask people for their opinion, then complain when it doesn't mirror your own.

>Do you guys still play it and find it fun?

Seriously, you asked.

>> No.1451015

I am not OP and am fine when someone's opinion is different from mine. I just hate it when someone dismisses an older game by saying it aged bad without giving examples for why they think so. It's too vague and seems like something someone who just wants to shit on something for the sake of shitting on something would do.

>> No.1451020
File: 127 KB, 932x926, 6246.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I like the attitude Wolf 3D has. I love the nice mix of dark humor with enemies that use magic, skeletons in cages, mecha hitler etc.

>> No.1451031 [DELETED] 

Why should they have to justify their opinion, just because it's different from yours?

"I demand to know why you agree with me!" said no one ever.

>> No.1451036

Because I'm a faggot who likes to know why people think the things they do.

>> No.1451038

Posting nothing but "it aged terribly" is on par with posting "nah, it's old and sucks." Yes I suppose no one can stop someone from putting that opinion to the pile, but it adds nothing to the discussion.

>> No.1451043
File: 5 KB, 452x398, wolf3d_get_psyched.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.1451047

I remember really enjoying it as a kid. I always looked fondly on it back then, despite playing it little. As I grew its availability to me was lost, and I still had great memories of it, the sounds you get from picking up a meal, the mp40, etc. I played it again recently, and it's just too simple of a game to keep me going for long. It's nice, but it's nothing tremendous. The limitations in level design - and the actual design of the levels leaves a lot to be desired. I hold the game close to my heart in retrospect, and think it's very important, but I just don't enjoy Wolf3D very much.

>> No.1451050 [DELETED] 

I hate it because it's basically Good Goy: The Videogame.

>> No.1451051

Our expectations or yours?

>> No.1451053 [DELETED] 

Doom came out only a year later, and it's impossible to deny that Doom is an improvement in every possible way. The two games were even in development at the same time; Wolfenstein was never meant to have lasting appeal, it was just a cash-grab to tide people over for an actual good game.

>> No.1451061

>it was just a cash-grab
Why do people misuse terms?

Historical inaccuracy aside, if the person meant "No, Doom is so much better in every way that Wolfenstein no longer has any appeal to me" then maybe they should have said that.

>> No.1451063

stay on /v/ or /pol/ please

>> No.1451070 [DELETED] 

>asks for my opinion
>give opinion; demands to know the reason for my opinion
>give reason; demands my reason be reworded so as not to offend him

Jesus Christ OP, lose the fucking asperger's. Not everyone likes Wolfenstein, get over it. It's a shitty game and I'm not gonna apologize for thinking that.

>> No.1451074
File: 48 KB, 600x401, 1350797821649.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

That's a different guy responding to you. I am perfectly fine with what you think, I just wanted some reasons why you thought so.

>> No.1451082

How about you stop assuming everyone is fucking OP? I'm the OP and just checked back on this thread, my reply was the second one and nothing else in-between.

Anyhow, I agree with the dude's point, saying things are aged has no meaning here, a lot of people like old games BECAUSE they're aged anyway. I find the simplicity of Wolf entertaining and I enjoy the overall style and the feeling of mowing down a bunch of nazis. The occult elements are fun too.

>> No.1451091 [DELETED] 

>and the feeling of mowing down a bunch of nazis
Good goy! Destroy the enemies of the chosen people!

>The occult elements
Yessss, only a sick nazi would indulge themselves in such idolatry. The truly wise worship the god of Abraham!

>> No.1451094

Oh for fuck's sake, go away. Is all of 4chan going to be this way now? Every time you mention nazis one of these dudes comes along. You're just as much brainwashed as your 6 GORILLION enemies, idiot.

>> No.1451121


Wolf Life 2: Escape from Castle Halfenstein

>> No.1451130 [DELETED] 

This post is so Jewish my foreskin just spontaneously fell off after reading it. How do you even live with yourself, you cowardly centrist "oooh both sides are equally bad"

>> No.1451137 [DELETED] 
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>> No.1451138 [DELETED] 
File: 1.53 MB, 989x3998, TmnblZA.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

It's called being a reasonable person.
Nazis aren't the worst thing that ever happened to humanity and their crimes are overblown because feelings. But they were still brainwashing totalitarians and their ideology was shit-tier. Go burn degenerate books in your backyard, fag.

>> No.1451154

>This post is so Jewish my foreskin just spontaneously fell off after reading it
Okay guys, you have to admit that was kinda funny.

>> No.1451267 [DELETED] 
File: 1.16 MB, 320x192, 1392405842470.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>you cowardly centrist "oooh both sides are equally bad"
Nobody said that though.

>> No.1451269

>The two games were even in development at the same time;
Not really. Carmack started Doom while everyone else worked on SoD, but Wolf3D was already out. It's true Catacombs was already the proving ground of that engine, but Wolf was hardly a cash-grab. If Wolf had bombed, there's no way they would have done Doom, at least not the way it turned out.

>> No.1451271

i remember seeing a wolfenstien TC along time ago, the graphics were pretty cool, the player character was female and the melee weapon was a knife, does anyone know what i am talking about

>> No.1451307 [DELETED] 

I love wolf 3d the music is awesome bobby prince is a god. as people have said it does get tiring but for a quick little game session its amazing running through mazes shooting Nazis is a lot of fun. of course I'm not a good goy and have to pretend the Nazis were truly evil when I play still like the game though.
implying /pol/ is one person. you really are a dumb little goy.

>> No.1451317 [DELETED] 

Killing the jews was the most reasonable choice.

>> No.1451353 [DELETED] 

>all those deleted posts
janitor confirmed for jidf shill.

>> No.1452026

Blake Stone used the W3D engine. It's basically scifi Wolf3D.
Operation Body Count
Corridor 7
The best known game based on Wolf3D was Rise of The Triad.

>> No.1452034

I always liked the Mac version of Wolf better. Yeah, the levels would repeat over and over, yeah, the enemies only had one side and would always face you but goddamit, the music was kickass and it had flamethrower.

>> No.1452052

The Mac version also had higher resolution sprites and textures (128x128), which the 3DO and Jag versions would later inherit.

>> No.1452163

Personally, I have trouble dealing with any FPS that doesn't give you dedicated strafe keys. So I don't play Wolf3D much, and never even finished the shareware episode. Otherwise, the graphics and level design don't bother me much even though my first FPS was Doom way back in 1994.

I also tried playing Catacomb 3D and same thing (no strafe keys).

>> No.1452169
File: 2.96 MB, 640x480, Party_Time_by_firestriker (1).gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I didn't grow up playing the dos fps, so I suck at it, mostly strafing. But I still love it, along with Doom and Quake.

>> No.1452172

It's pretty easy to strafe using the mouse, but yeah I would have liked the standard WASD setup as well.

>> No.1452175
File: 922 KB, 490x275, creepy-at-clown.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Well, you see, I've played Doom with WASD. That's how I came to know it's glory. But I can't use the mouse. It's gatta be classic controls or nuthin for me.

Pic related... "It's the only waaay!"

>> No.1452226

Is there a port with mouse-look etc? Something like GZDoom but for Wolf3D.

otherwise meh I'll live without playing this

>> No.1452243

Why would you ever need mouse look for Wolf?

>> No.1452246

I don't like playing FPS without mouse-look

>> No.1452247

Yeah but there is absolutely no need for vertical aiming. Have you even tried playing it?

>> No.1452249
File: 12 KB, 320x200, kens-labyrinth_3.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

The classic "Ken's Labyrinth" was build on the same engine as Wolf3D. Unless you're into Bible Story 3D which was also made from the Wolf3D engine, Ken's labyrinth provides a kickass alternative. Difficulty level selection shown here... will upload pic of in-game play shortly. Highly recommended.

>> No.1452250

Nor is there any need for it in Doom but those sourceports have it.

Why do you care if he wants mouselook or not?

>> No.1452251

You can say the same thing about Doom and Duke and practically every shooter before Quake.

>> No.1452253
File: 45 KB, 640x400, ken4.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Oh, also about Ken's Labyrinth - soundtrack is amazing.

Find youtube videos on it if you want - you won't be sorry you did.

>> No.1452259
File: 42 KB, 640x400, blakestone2.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Shit, and who can forget Blake Stone: Aliens of Gold? A classic, also built on the Wolf3D engine.

>> No.1452260



If you're not all too hung up on accuracy, this TC for the Doom source ports does a good enough job at giving you the Wolf3D experience while also giving you the control options of those source ports.

>> No.1452265

The engine on which Walken->Ken's Labyrinth, Wolf3D, and then Blake Stone: Aliens of Gold were built on is called Build. Those are the only games I know of which were built using it. I'm surprised I'm the only person who put up any posts about these games.

Ken's Labyrinth, the original of originals (after it was called Walken in earlier builds):

>> No.1452267

As far as Doom, it revolutionized things because it had floor and ceiling textures along with differing floor and ceiling heights. Also had the colored door keys and levers that did more than simply moving a wall. All games made through Build had levels that you could draw on graphing paper - with 1x1 tiles that had one single thing on each of them - whether it be a type of wall, an enemy, a treasure, a tree, a door, or whatever. No more than one thing could occupy a single tile at the time the level is loaded. With Doom, this was not true. Walls could be angled (not all 90 degree angles), floors could hurt you, there were now explosions, barrels to blow up, and area effect stuff (walking in toxic sludge)... the list of differences is insane. Next came along Duke Nukem 3D which brought things even further along.

Which brings me to my question - why was this thread hijacked into a doom thread from a wolf3d thread?

>> No.1452308
File: 30 KB, 640x192, klabmaps.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

What? No it wasn't, Ken made his own engine after seeing Wolfenstein and taking it up as an "I can do that" challenge.

And you're all mixed up here. Build is a completely different, more advanced engine that Ken made later. It's not the same engine as Ken's Labyrinth and it has nothing to do with Wolf or Blake Stone.

>> No.1452313

Doom has vertical surfaces, the auto-aim mostly takes care of it but I can see why someone would want free aiming. Wolf, though, doesn't benefit one bit.

But whatever, I just find it weird.

>> No.1452341

Best wolf engine game I know of.

>> No.1452341,1 [INTERNAL] 

I love wolf 3d the music is awesome bobby prince is a god. as people have said it does get tiring but for a quick little game session its amazing running through mazes shooting Nazis is a lot of fun. of course I'm not a good goy and have to pretend the Nazis were truly evil when I play still like the game though.
implying /pol/ is one person. you really are a dumb little goy.

EXCUSE ME FAGGOT JANITOR, BUT WHAT RULES DID THAT BREAK? Take your fucking selective back to reddit you over sensitive bitch.

>> No.1452427 [DELETED] 

I hate it because its basically good goy the game.

fucking seriously you deleted that? remind me what rules that broke. its just someone's opinion the janitor really needs a swift kick to the teeth.

>> No.1452439

Rule 3.

>> No.1452591

Mouse is classic controls. Vanilla Doom and Wolfenstein have mouse options. Don't gimp yourself because muh faux-retro.

>> No.1452601

nice, I'll play this

>> No.1452604 [DELETED] 

what part of rule 3 specifically it wasn't a troll or a flame or anything it was just someone's opinion. I really hate the neet janitor on this board were all grown men for the most part we can police ourselves and certainly don't need some pussyhurt bitch sanding off the edges.

>> No.1452610

Isn't that for joysticks?

>> No.1452727

This, all the keyboard purists are hilarious.
There are quotes from Romero on how to get better at speedrunning Wolf3D where he outright says to use the mouse.

>> No.1452731

Blake Stone on the same engine is way better. Shame it's so underrated.

>> No.1453498

My God, stop talking out of your penis you god damn retard.

Ken's Labyrinth did not have anything to do, engine-wise, with Wolf3D. Ken went on to do the Build Engine which primarily was Duke3D, but also Blood and Shadow Warrior.

John Carmack, id founder, wrote the Wolf3D and Doom engines. Get your fucking shit straight.

>> No.1453925

>But I can't use the mouse. It's gatta be classic controls or nuthin for me.
Where do you people get the idea that Doom did not support mouse control? The default demos that play in the 1993 shareware release were clearly recorded with mouse input, for crying out loud!

>> No.1454190

Anyone else hear it or am I crazy?



>> No.1454212

holy cow, yes.

>> No.1454265

Wolf3D is decent, but VERY repetitive to the point that I can barely tell the later levels apart.

>> No.1454389

Where this game?

>> No.1454439

Doom can actually benefit with it, due to the verticality of a lot of its maps.

Wolf3D has literally no verticality making it pointless.

>> No.1454621

Can someone give me some tips on how to get a joystick/gamepad to run this properly? I can't strafe.

>> No.1454659

There are no strafe buttons, it uses the old dedicated strafe key, you hold the turning directions with it.

>> No.1454661 [DELETED] 

You mean goystick? It should work of you cut the tip off the stick.

>> No.1455668

Ah that's a shame. A few weeks ago I was blasting through the game before realize there was a strafe ability.

The other day I watched a video of someone playing the PS3 release of the game. They had some good strafing going on like a modern shooter.

>> No.1455834

Doom is even worse but people still play it because of how fucking casual and easy it is.

>> No.1455992

You must be pretty bored.

>> No.1456195

>Nothing of note on the wolfenstein engine

So ROTT and Blake Stone don't exist then?

>> No.1456205


But wasn't that it's own engine? I know it was originally going to be a sequel to Wolfenstein but eventually morphed into it's own thing but I never knew it used anything from Wolf 3D.

>> No.1456248


It used a heavilly modified wolf 3d engine, so not really.

>> No.1456328

My first Wolf clone was Bad Toys, loved that game, too bad the website still charges $15 for the full game despite it being 15 years old

btw, was Wolf3d the first game to have the bloodied face status bar?

>> No.1456870

I played through the first episode on Death Incarnate the other day. It was a really tense and fun experience, made me actually appreciate the score-based nature of the game and hunting for secrets.
I used to savescum heavily in these games and playing them legit is a whole new thing. Wolf3d is still loads of fun.

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