Wizardry

[Anonymous No.1415548]

Any opinions on the Wizardry games and their spiritual successors? I have just started playing the first one, and it's pretty enjoyable for such a stripped-down RPG. There is something satisfying about the minimalism and having to map out the dungeons yourself using graph paper.

Any thoughts on this series, /vr/?

[Anonymous No.1415725]

bump

[Anonymous No.1415729]

I enjoyed the PS2 one. I know it gets shit on though.

[Anonymous No.1416161]

I'm currently playing through the series and am reaching the end of 6.
1 was a great game, particularly considering its time.
2 and 3 were relatively shallow addons.
4 was so frustrating that I quit early on because I was just constantly re-rolling my team or killed by the ghost.
5 was a decent update to the old system though some of the new mechanics were shit.
6 is annoying to control and the dungeons are a bit lame but the increased complexity in stats makes up for it. I miss the option to change out characters.

[Anonymous No.1416174]

>>1416161
what was shallow about 2 and 3?
what new mechanics did 5 introduce and why were they bad?

[Anonymous No.1416186]

>>1416174
2 and 3 are the same game with a new dungeon. You can transfer your party from 1 to 2 but for 3 you need to start fresh.
3 has levels that cannot be entered by a certain alignment but it doesn't change much.

5 added hidden items that require you to search around in seemingly random rooms. Secret doors can't just be walked through and won't be shown in a light spell, instead you have to search every suspicious wall either with a chance of failure or by expending a spell. Diving pools require a lengthy procedure for little practical gain.
There are some checkpoints that require you to use a specific item every time you want to pass through.
The bishop's identification skill has a chance to terrify the character which makes bishops worthless.

[Anonymous No.1416282]

>>1416161
>I miss the option to change out characters.
Yeah this bums me out too. After you're done with Wizardry, check out Mordor: Depths of Dejenol or its improved semi-remake Demise.

[Anonymous No.1416289]

>>1415729
I wish it wasn't so mindnumbingly slow, dammit. Speed and Wizardry have always went hand in hand, so that makes it even more painful.

[Anonymous No.1416297]

>>1416282
I already played both a long time ago. I even completed Demise and should still have my save backed up somewhere.

[Anonymous No.1416298]

>>1416297
>completed Demise
Oh shit. How long did that take you?

[Anonymous No.1416525]

>>1416298
Going by my files I installed the game in May 2003 and finished the map in late February 2004. My last backup is from early March 2004 so I think I was done at that point.
I can't get the game to run in the moment so I don't know what exact party I had.

[Anonymous No.1416526]

Is there a game like Wizardry without the option to revive your characters but with less inevitable deaths.

[Anonymous No.1416646]

>>1415548
emulate Llylgamyn Saga and New Age of Llylgamyn on PS1 if you want a more graphically enhanced version of Wizardry 1 2 3 4 5. Both have english options inside the game. so don't get weirded out if you only see japanese isos floating around.

I love those games. On a related note: Wizardry 7 dos version is pretty great and if you like the Sir-Tech games you might check out Wizardry Ultimate Archives or buy 6 and 7 on steam or GoG.

It's funny though, anything Wizardry is much better in the japanese remakes for PS1 or SNES. Same with everything that came later. I wish Wizardry Dimguil would finally get a fan translation and Empire 1 and 2 as well. I really want to play them or play the Wiz 7 remake for PS1 which is also a bit better.

Wizardry Online is not vr related but I though you might want to play it and try it out since SOE will be sunsetting servers by end of July. great MMO. After that there will only be the japanese client.

>>1415729
Do you mean Prisoners of Battle or Tales of the Forsaken Land? if the latter, I really liked it because it's essentially like SMT and you could see that.

>>1416526
not sure if you'll find what you're looking for but you might want to check out the Elminage series for PSP, only Elminage Original has been localized and translated but it's an excellent game and wizardry clone, Also, Etrian Odyssey. that series is also more forgiving. Temples are in both games though for reviving dead characters.

[Anonymous No.1416714]

>>1416646
Aren't the graphics just distracting? I find it easier to map wireframe. You can of course switch to wireframe in the console ports but that practically ruins the point of playing those versions with manual mapping.
Personally I also dislike menu based controls.

Is there a download of the Windows version the Llylgamin games? That's one of the few ports I haven't tried.

[Anonymous No.1416913]

>>1416646
I personally like the SNES only because you can reroll your bonus stats right away and not having to remake your character over and over again. I haven't played New Age of Llylgamyn (any version of 4, and 5) so I can't comment on that. As for games like Wizardry I feel Etrian Odyssey is a wonderful series. Kind of wish you can take off automapping but it does give a nice bit of challenge in a lot of cases.
>>1416714
Lllygamyn Saga is actually a really good remake. And a easy way to emulate without having to find and get a windows version to play.

It's almost amazing that Wizardry had on gaming at large. It was the main focus for Dragon Quest which all other JRPG mimics. And it's way of creating a party of your choice which you can pick how their stats go. For a game made in 1981 it did everything right and set it's mark as one of the most influential game that has ever been made.

[Anonymous No.1416987]

>>1416913
Llylgamyn Saga on Windows isn't the same as Llylgamyn Saga on Playstation or Saturn.

You can use savestates in any version if you want quick rerolls.

I can't say that DQ took more after Wizardry than after Ultima but Ultima 1 wasn't as refined as Wizardry 1.
Character creation is a bit unusual in Wizardry since most other systems copied the random attributes from DnD or gave you fixed bonus points to distribute.

[Anonymous No.1416990]

>>1416646
>play the Wiz 7 remake for PS1 which is also a bit better.
Not.
Wiz 7 on the PSX, to be honest, is just ass. The graphics look positively godawful, the menus are cluttered, and the whole game runs strangely slow and laggy. It takes about a third of a second for the menu selection to move, for example. And let's not forget that they've removed the text parser and multiple beginnings for the game.

[Anonymous No.1416996]

Are there any recommended mods for Wizardry 8 or 7?
I see there's a widescreen mod that I'm likely going to use but I'm not sure about the other offerings.

[Anonymous No.1417001]

>>1416996
>Wizardry 8
Wiz8fast is a must, unless you enjoy taking quick naps inbetween combat turns.
Also Deathstryke's mod is pretty solid. There were a few other decent ones. Most of them add new stuff to the game, and fix some imbalances in the game system.

[Anonymous No.1418845]

I've completed Wizardry VI and based on a short observation of the transfer will level my characters a bit more before really beginning with VII.
Is there anything else I should know beforehand?

[Anonymous No.1418863]

>>1418845
Yup. Most importantly, the characters can only transfer a single item per capita to Wiz 7 (exceptions are some potions and similar trivial shit, that gets transferred always). To guarantee that an item will be transferred as opposed to just having one picked at random, make sure said item is the only one that's equipped on them. Some items are untransferrable, don't remember if anything notable though. Those fancy endgame weapons are your best bet, Wiz 7 is a goddamn nightmare at the start and you need every single source of damage you can muster.

[Anonymous No.1418947]

>>1418863
>Wiz 7 is a goddamn nightmare at the start
I expected as much. The only Wizardry where I found the low levels easy was V.

[Anonymous No.1418957]

>>1418947
Only played 1 and I felt it was alright at low levels. You had to fucking grind like hell to get to floor 2 and 3 but it never really felt like it was a nightmare at the start.

[Anonymous No.1418985]

>>1418957
I had to start over at one point because I was lost after stepping through the one way door/teleporter.
My characters were also dropping like flies and needed to be revived/replaced regularly
Floor 2 was relatively relaxing in comparison since I had figured out how the game worked and it didn't contain any nasty features. I didn't grind until the endgame.

[Anonymous No.1419164]

>>1418985
I got to level 4 or 5 until I got to the second floor. Mostly for the spell charges since magic is the most useful thing in the game. Mapping the floor was a pain but once you get 1/4 of the thing done you can go back and heal up. Only let your cleric nap and use his spell charges and then nap again to get it back. Never actually sleep because of age. To me the 3rd floor is a fucking bitch because of the pits and teleporting tiles. Really the only spell I hate is the teleporting spell to get you out of the dungeon since you lose EVERYTHING.

[Anonymous No.1419175]

>>1419164
There is no reason to leave the first floor until you have gained at least 10 levels. Murphy's Ghosts are weak and gives a lot EXP.

[Anonymous No.1419186]

I can't enjoy these early RPGs at all. I wish I could, but damn. Everyone of them is sadistic as fuck. Personally I love Dungeon Master and games of that style, it's where dungeon crawling really got good IMO.

[Anonymous No.1419248]

>>1419175
Time spend on grinding is time not spend on exploring. Of course you can skip most of the floors and rush directly for Werdna but where's the enjoyment in that?

[Anonymous No.1419249]

>>1419175
I know and I only went to 5th just to see how it was. I was doing well until the 3rd floor then I leveled like fuck. Since those pits and teleport really fucks with you.
>>1419186
It's not that bad. Grinding is a bit of a pain but it's the joy of finding the next area and seeing how far you can go. Having someone die and having to run back to town so revive them. Makes you feel like you are just a group of adventures facing someone you shouldn't really face.

[Anonymous No.1419260]

>>1419248
Well you kind of need to grind to get past some parts. Like the group of enemies on the 4th (?) floor that easily could wreak your shit if you are not prepared. And Werdna is a fucker on his own so it's best to grind and try to find some nice gear before meeting him.

[Anonymous No.1419262]

>>1419164
I made the huge mistake on floor 3 to map the stairs in the wrong location. I came very close to death figuring out a way back because I usually run home as soon as anything happens.
I tried to avoid the intersections out of fear from pits and rotators so I ended up stumbling into the elevator.

I only used the recall once when I reached Werdna's door and had no way to turn back.After that I spend a while on floor 9 to build up strength and inventory before risking the final push

[Anonymous No.1419286]

>>1419260
>Like the group of enemies on the 4th (?) floor that easily could wreak your shit if you are not prepared.
The Proving Grounds Control Center is a hard fight indeed since they have a ninja capable of decapitating you and a bunch of casters to fuck you up if you don't manage to silence them immediately
I actually managed to beat them on the first tries but never got Trebor's message since I always lost somebody and needed to revive them instead of exploring further rooms. The rings of death brought more than enough money for that.

With Werdna you have to wait until level 14 so that you can use (Ma)haman and still be able to teleport home.
Knight of Diamonds expects you to have Malor to even clear the first floor so you don't really gain much from beating Werdna earlier

[Anonymous No.1419291]

>>1419249
>Makes you feel like you are just a group of adventures facing someone you shouldn't really face.
This. The appeal to me is the whole feeling of being way out of your league in the dungeon, but still progressing. You don't know whether you'll make it or not, whether your death will be impressive or stupid, whether you'll actually solve the dungeon. You're unlikely to, you're not equipped to win, enemies outnumber and outpower you, the game does not hold punches in teh slightest. So how will you do? It's really a thrill.

[Anonymous No.1419337]

6 annoyed me a bit with its controls. It was kind of interesting for a while, but I dropped it because the manual lied to me: you can't replace characters.

I'm still somewhat steamed about it. Maybe I'll give the series another chance someday.

[Anonymous No.1419392]

>>1416646
Do the PS remakes change the mechanics in any way?

[Anonymous No.1419475]

>>1419392
There's an automap that's accessible at any point in the game, although it can be disabled in the menu screen IIRC. Other than that, I don't recall anything notable (aside from the minor mechanical changes that have appeared in every single one of the japanese remakes, such as different stat caps)

[Anonymous No.1419489]

Anyone played the Gaidens?

Gaiden I, II and IV are already translated, and III is almost here.

[Anonymous No.1419501]

>>1419475
>have appeared in every single one of the japanese remakes, such as different stat caps)
It's not 18?

[Anonymous No.1419743]

>>1419392
You can create new characters in Knight of Diamonds and Legacy of Llylgamyn instead of having to transfer them over. In the latter this gives you an advantage since you can set the stats for the characters instead of having them randomized by the legation.
The saving system also works somewhat differently. Your position doesn't seem to be saved with every step and you can't switch between multiple scenario disks.

[Anonymous No.1421142]

>>1416996
>mods
A lot of the gameplay mods for Wiz8 are very... different and rough. I wouldn't recommend them for a first timer.

If you want something that's mostly Vanilla + speed improvements + balance tweaks, try "Wizardry 8 Enhancements"

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/wizardry-8-enhancements.79581/

[Anonymous No.1421369]

>>1419501
Unlike the originals, each stat is capped exactly 10 points above the base stat of the race, e.g. a hobbit can never have more than 15 strength because he begins with 5. On the other hand, he can have up to 22 agility and 25 luck.

[Anonymous No.1421419]

>>1421369
Which versions have that? The PC98 ports of 1-3 and the FM Towns port of 5 certainly didn't have it and I doubt the other computer ports had it.
I'm not seeing it on the Playstation, SFC or Wonderswan either. The GBC is the only one where I can attest that system.
The Wonderswan seems bugged, I only got a single double digit roll during creation.

[Anonymous No.1421448]

>>1421419
I can recall the SFC version having it, at the very least.

[Anonymous No.1421479]

>>1421448
I actually just played the SFC and you can only get to 18 in every stat no matter what race you are.

[Anonymous No.1421519]

>>1421479
Well fuck me then, my memory's shoddy.

[Anonymous No.1421539]

>>1421519
Remember Wizardry is based on AD&D 1st edition. And back then 18 was the max (well 18/00 but guessing they didn't want to add more coding to the program). And the Japanese LOVE Wizardry and felt messing with the system would be heresy. The only major changes I can think of is GBC has a smaller map because of how limited the size was and PSX has an auto map feature.

[Anonymous No.1421579]

The PCE-CD port also has it but that it doesn't have the English options of the rest.
It also has gender options for some reason.

[Anonymous No.1421587]

>>1421579
huh maybe I was wrong with them fucking with the system. I know the SFC only let you get to 18 in your stats but that's really all I remember. Weird they added the gender option when they never had that in the other versions.

[Anonymous No.1421598]

>>1421519
>>1421539
>>1421579
Okay, it seems I was half-right. Wiz 5 on SFC has it. Try the NES versions of 1-3, they use a similar engine to that one.

[Anonymous No.1421652]

>>1421598
Both the US and and Japanese version cap at 18 but I'm also having trouble getting a role higher than 9.
As far as I know the NES port also features a different map layout.

[Anonymous No.1421712]

>>1421652
That's why I like the SFC version. People here might call me a fucker but I needed those rerolls. With losing stats on leveling up or other fuckery the game is already hard. Having a good stat in the start is all I ask.

[Anonymous No.1421782]

>>1421712
I used save states to quickly return to the alignment selection instead completing the character only to immediately refuse him.

What you can also do is create a dozen characters and pick the best one out of them. Pool the money from the rest so you can afford better equipment and potential revivals.

[Anonymous No.1422308]

>>1421782
I really only use save state and not the system save since then I have to split the party and lazy half in the maze since some are good and some are evil.

[Anonymous No.1422336]

>>1422308
What the fuck did I say the second half. I meant I was too lazy to split the party because of the different alignment.

[Anonymous No.1422761]

>>1422336
Doesn't the alignment equalize after a few encounters with neutrals?

[Anonymous No.1422801]

>>1422761
They sometimes change depending on your actions on neutrals but it's not always. And doesn't changing alignment messes up special classes (lords, thief, ect)?

[Anonymous No.1423042]

Been playing Wizardry 8.
What's wrong with Bishops?
Despite having the highest magic skills of the party, he's always failing to cast the most basic stuff where the Mage can rain level 4 fireballs on anything without worry. It's horrible.
Do they ever get better? I feel like there's no reason to have one.

[Anonymous No.1423074]

>>1423042
Wizardry 8 isn't retro, so I can't help you.

[Anonymous No.1423310]

>>1423042
There are "spell school" skills and there are "element" skills. The former are Wizardry/Divinity/Alchemy/Psionics. The latter is Fire/Water/Air/Etc. If you don't want to keep flubbing spells, you want more of the latter than the former.

Bishops are actually much more powerful than most other casters. It's very easy to screw them up though and their start is VERY rough.

Unless you enjoy grinding a whole bunch, what you want to do is to only concentrate on 2 "spell school" skills and put the rest into "elements" skills. Bishops also need to make sure to only use their spell picks on relevant spells.

[Anonymous No.1423342]

>>1423074
Okay, see this, this is a shitpost. It might as well not be here. You are outright refusing to help someone and admitting it, thinking that because his post is off-topic, you are exempt from the rules. This is the same logic that destroyed both /a/ and /v/, the logic of "IT'S NOT SHITPOSTING IF IT'S A SHITPOST I'M RESPONDING TO SO IT'S OKAY TO SHITPOST".

/vr/ started as one of the best boards on 4chan and people like you are a fucking cancer on it, and should be banned from the board permanently because of your Yahho Answers-tier bullshit and faggotry. Get out and never come back.

>>1423042
Bishops are just fuckups at the start. Keep spellschools at 1 or 2 and be patient with them. They're very useful to have once you've pumped them up a little bit. They're one of those classes you need to invest quite a bit into to get them to their full potential.

I also recommend reading this if you're at a loss: http://www.schleppenbach.com/powerbishops.php

[Anonymous No.1423378]

>>1423342
>Waluigi Get Out.png
>GET OUT OF /VR/
>Waluigi first appeared in Mario Tennis
>Mario Tennis was released in 2000
>Waluigi is not /vr/

[Anonymous No.1423393]

>>1423378
I'm sorry but do you have a learning disability? I'd like to be sensitive if you do. I understand what it's like but here are some helpful google searches.

https://www.google.com/search?q=overcoming+learning+disabilities
https://www.google.com/search?q=overcoming+reading+difficulties
https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+improve+reading+comprehension

There are resources for people like you. It's nothing to be ashamed of. You were born that way.

[Anonymous No.1423401]

>>1423378
N64 game, man. It counts as retro.

>>1423393
Do you need a time-out?

[Anonymous No.1423978]

>>1419489
they are translated? aren't those the Gameboy games? please link a translation ITT if you can. I'm really curious.

[Anonymous No.1423985]

>>1416714
>Aren't the graphics just distracting?

no, not imo. but the only thing that bugs me which Dimguil and Empire I and II got at least right is that they actually place the enemy models in the dungeon during an encounter while in Llylgamyn Saga only a battle menu with a little enemy model or portrait gets shown and the rest is spreadsheet like. that breaks the immersion a bit since that way the dungeons feel a bit empty that way.

>It was the main focus for Dragon Quest which all other JRPG mimics.

true, it's amazing indeed. it really pathed the way for Megami Tensei as well because I heard that some Wizardry entry in the series introduced captured monsters that fight for you. I bet Japan went crazy when they realized the opportunities. SMT stuff and Pkmn wouldn't be the way it is if there wasn't the Wizardry series.

[Anonymous No.1423986]

>>1423342
>this is a shitpost

Nah, I was just telling the guy not to expect any help here. He would then either go to /v/ or look up any information for himself.

>/vr/ started as one of the best boards on 4chan and people like you are a fucking cancer on it

Heaven forbid we try to stay on-topic.

[Anonymous No.1423997]

>>1419392
not really but it has nice, more cosmetic additions like there is an enemy and weapon+armory gallery for every wizardry game or part.

japanese devs seem to do that often. I really liked that in games like Symphony of the Night as well. Or more recently in Elminage. What's not so great, come to think of it: StarFish reused several class icons and enemy models for Elminage Original and stripped them straight from Empire 1. It doesn't bother me much but it's curious to see when they wanted to get their own franchise on the road.

[Anonymous No.1424013]

>>1416714
>Is there a download of the Windows version the Llylgamin games?

there is one afaik. I haven't tried that one yet either.

Also, speaking of all the different entries: Did anybody try Nemesis: A Wizardry adventure? It was also made by Sir-Tech but this is a pure adventure game. I'd really like to try that but I can't find a torrent or download with good speed anywhere. I've seen that it consists out of 5 CDs.

[Anonymous No.1424058]

>>1423985
> I heard that some Wizardry entry in the series introduced captured monsters that fight for you.
Return of Werdna? The later games only had a few summon options, something I would at the moment give Bard's Tale credit for.

[Anonymous No.1424546]

>>1424013
>Did anybody try Nemesis: A Wizardry adventure?
I haven't played it, but from what I've seen of it it looks and plays repulsively, and the people who actually have played it seem to agree with that.

[Anonymous No.1424981]

>>1424058
must be Werdna. it was kind of revolutionary. 1 2 3 focused on defeating Werdna and gain his amulet or something and 4 and 5 were about him getting resurrected, gather a party of monster and fight his way up to the top to get that pendant back and shows those adventurer faggots who's boss.

[Anonymous No.1424995]

I really like how they actually made an OVA out of Wizardry 1 in Japan. it's hilarious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOTHNoODYmY

[Anonymous No.1425013]

>>1424981
You shouldn't talk out of your ass. Werdna plays no role in 2,3 or 5.

[Anonymous No.1425037]

>>1424995

>Bishop carrying the whole party all the way through.

jesus christ, what a weak faggot party.

[Anonymous No.1425051]

>>1425037
Bishops aren't so bad once they get level 7 spells, it just takes them way too long to get there.

[MrRichard999 No.1425051,1]

Hello there, looking to see if anybody has played Wizardry - Prisoners of Battle or Wizardry - Chronicles. They are in Japanese but I am looking to translate them.

We currently translated Wizardry Gaiden 1-3 for game body and are almost finished with Wizardry Empires 1&2 for game boy and half way with Empires II for PC :)

http://www.romhacking.net/community/131/

If you can help me out with those Japanese titles I mentioned above please contact me on www.rpgcodex.net you can find me as MrRichard999