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/vr/ - Retro Games

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1406717 No.1406717[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

If someone were looking to make today a 8-bit game in unity...
what limitations should I care to make it 8-bit?
So far I know about the:
>Color pallethe
>Music limitations
>Screen Resolution.

So, I want to ask /vr/ what limitations I can bend or what others I better not.

Having modern gameplay is frowned upon?

>> No.1406729

If you want to make a real 8 bit game, write it in Assembler for an 8 bit CPU like the 650x, Z80 or 680x.

>> No.1406731

2 buttons max.

>> No.1406737

>>1406729
I don't have access to 8-bit electronics.
plus I would like to make it for android.
no need to hate.

>> No.1406743

>>1406717
Nigger follow >>1406729 that advice
You wanna make an 8-Bit game?
Make a fuckin 8-bit game
At that point, you don't need to worry about limiting yourself of being tempted into cheating juuuust a little bit
Your platform WILL BE the limitations
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Literally no gameplay style should be frowned upon
In fact, you should be praised even more for doing something innovative

But yeah action-platformers are popular to make

>> No.1406748

It's probably best not to emulate the sprite limit(flickering).
Don't stick to the real palette rules; use the palette colors but don't emulate the limitations(for example the NES can only use a specific number of colors per 4 tiles or whatever, it's complicated).

Also don't emulate the music limitations, but DO use something like FamiTracker; this way you can have more audio channels but you'll still have the original instruments.
This'll give the classic NES sound but better.

Don't emulate the limitation where sound effects take up sound channels and part of the music doesn't play(unless you want this to be a subtle wink; don't make it annoying though).

Make it look and sound like the original, make the controls as good as possible, don't make the game unfair, don't emulate annoying(uncharming limitations).

>> No.1406745

>>1406731
Fine.
I only know about the NES.
there aren't other 8-bit consoles?
how bout PC?

>> No.1406749

Fuck the limitations. Make a game that looks good, consistent, and is most importantly fun. That's how they would've wanted it.

Do you want to know what makes "8bit" art so good? The artists of the time were learned. They actually knew how to make art that was more than halfway good. They had limits to work with, yeah, but them's the breaks. Couldn't be helped.

>>>/vg/AGDG

Work with pixels. Don't try to emulate older art that was weighed down by limitations.

>> No.1406753

>>1406737
>I don't have access to 8-bit electronics
nigger you don't have a fucking TI-84?

>> No.1406751

>>1406743
I don't have access to 8-bit electronics.
plus I want to make it for android.

>> No.1406754

>>1406737

>no need to hate
Where the hell did you see hate in that response?

>> No.1406756

>>1406753
>TI-84
nope.
I have an old computer + 80US Smartphone.

>> No.1406760

OP made this thread on /v/, he's just some stupid indie dev.

>> No.1406761

>>1406754
/v/ just insult me for asking the same thread.

>> No.1406768

>>1406760
ok, I didn't want to insult NES games.
It was a stupid typo.
no need to hate.

>> No.1406771

>>1406745
The Sega Master system also had 2 buttons

>> No.1406770

>>1406737
This board is for games on retro platforms. Android is not considered a retro platform at this point.

>>1406745
IBM PC used a 16 bit Intel 8088. There were a variety of home computers with 8 bit CPU and diverging hardware limitations.
The most powerful 8 bit system is probably the FM-77AV with 2 Motorola 6809 processors, capable of 4096 simultaneous colors in 320x200.

>> No.1406774

>>1406737
>>1406751
>i suck many cocks
Damn it. If you're thinking of using only emulators for testing, then you totally deserve eternal rape by not so friendly people.
There are enough homebrew/hacks that doesn't work on the real hardware and i don't wish for more of that. And not to mention these x86 windows games that look like "8-bit".

>> No.1406775

>>1406768
Calling NES gameplay "clunky, slow" and "slow, ass" is not a typo.

>> No.1406783

>>1406771
The PC Engine also had 2 buttons, at least for the standard controller.
Whether it counts as 8 bit is debatable.

>> No.1406796

>>1406775
I was refering to the shitty and mediocre nes games, which indeed are clunky and slow ass.
I'm aware Mario Bros and Megaman play nice.

>> No.1406807
File: 3 KB, 256x64, 256colour.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1406807

>Color pallethe
Max 64 colors on screen from a total of 256 colors
>Music limitations
8 bit pcm sample based
>Screen Resolution.
320x200

>> No.1406808

>>1406796
You sound like a tryhard, honestly, not that this is retro either way. If you want to make games, make games. Using limits to appeal to the SO RETRO xD crowd is shitty, but if you really love 8-bit games, the best you can do is use hardware that actually limits you.

>> No.1406812
File: 5 KB, 249x174, 1392164829866.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1406812

>>1406745
>wants an 8-bit game
>only knows NES

>> No.1406815
File: 4 KB, 800x800, 8color-rgb-top-to-bottom-plain.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1406815

>>1406807
8 out of 8 colors in 640x200 with double height pixels is better.

>> No.1406823

>>1406717
>making an 8 bit
>not making a superior 16 bit of greatness.

>> No.1406824

>>1406748
It is for the best, however, to keep those limitations in mind. If there was no sprite flicker, there'd be no reason to have NES sprite be as small as they are. Sound effects typically used two sound channels at most, which consisted of either a square or triangle mixed with the noise channel. As to what channels they used was entirely up to what they needed to use.

And stay away from Audio expansion, personally. It just cheapens your music.

>> No.1406829

>>1406823
How about making a 4 bit game? All consoles and home computers used 8+ bits but 4 bit CPUs existed.

>> No.1406830

>>1406808
I just want to make something cool.
I was inspired by Cave story, spelunky and la mulana.
I don't wanna make a hipster retro game, I don't like the hipster fanbase.
I just wanted to see which limitations are the ones that I should stick with and what others I can bend a little.
Also, I wanted to knew anons opinions on retro games.

>> No.1406840

>>1406717
Don't. It's gay. If you want to make a 2D game, just make a good looking 2D game. There aren't a lot of them and you'll a niche. If you want to make a cheap looking game, just do that and try to make something good. Look at IWBG and Braid. Both are 2D games one is cheap and one is good looking neither are 8-bit. Limiting yourself to looking 8-bit doesn't really help anything.
Use your resources to produce something worthwhile. If you want to have limits, you have them, your ability to produce the game.
The only way you should emulate retro games is by borrowing gameplay elements that are good.

>> No.1406850

>>1406830
I think you should integrate with the community more and learn that way. Just because you want to make something doesn't mean that it will be good if you don't know the people you're targetting. And I'm very sure that the minds behind the games you mentioned were part of that as well.

>> No.1406912

>>1406717
Write it for an 8-bit platform you can easily emulate, where there's an open source emulator you can easily package with it for the platform you intend to deliver on. This is the only way to make it authentic within your other constraints. If you absolutely must use Unity, write a prototype of the game for an 8-bit platform first, so that you really understand the limitations of those platforms. There's nothing that pisses me off more than people writing "8-bit" games with fucking smooth volume fades and glissandos in the music, twenty sprite palettes on screen, and approaches to animation and collision detection that no one would ever have implemented on an 8-bit platform. Do your homework and you'll end up with a much more authentic product which, in the end, will be worth it. That truth will radiate from it.

>> No.1406916

>>1406830
In my opinion, respect all limitations except storage space. Including 60 fps vblank locked or fucking die. This is the ideal combination of authenticity with the potential of modern technology.

>> No.1406929

>>1406912
Could 8 bit platforms do red book audio? I know some 8 bit computers had CD-ROM drives but I'm not aware that any game used them for music.

>> No.1406949

>8bit game
>only runs on 32/64bit platforms
not trying to be autistic, but you mean 8bit style

>> No.1406965

>>1406949
There is no 8 bit style. There isn't even NES style, the games on it looked quite differently.

>> No.1406975

>>1406929
PC-Engine CD was still an 8-bit CPU, wasn't it?

>> No.1407000

>>1406829
Nobody knows what to associate with 4-bit.

With 8-bit, people think of the Atari or NES. With 16-bit, people think of the SNES or Genesis. 32-bit, the PSX. 64-bit, N64.

Most people don't even know 4-bit exists.

>> No.1407010

>>1406965
I'd say it did, actually. The NES had a unique color palette that was limited in a lot of aspects. A good example is with skin tones. There's only one color that really looks skin-like, so a lot of different games used the same color for that.

>> No.1407025

CPU bit width barely makes a damned ounce of difference to a game console. It's all about the supporting hardware you bolt onto it for graphics and sound.

Intellivision has a 16-bit CPU, Turbo Grafx 16/PC Engine has an 8 bit CPU.

>> No.1407034

>>1406916
>60 fps vblank locked or fucking die.
No.
Allow it, never lock it (not that it matters since driver level can override that shit)
Vsync is nice and all except when it's not. Sometimes it can be problematic with input or monitors, or they get lower framerate and don't want to half it and someone might find it beneficial to have it off. Especially when there's no harm in simply having the option around. Do enable by default though since that's the expectation.

It's also nice if you can do more than 60 especially if you've got large scenery panning but definitely shoot for 60 as the standard at least.

All games should always err on the side of option rather than locked. Do present your stylized vision as the default but force no one into it.

>> No.1407049

>>1407034
All 8-bit console games were locked at 60FPS due to the way the hardware was synced with the TV.

>> No.1407062

>>1407010
Yeah the NES only has 56 unique colors.

>> No.1407065

>>1407049
Yeah, the hardware. Unless he's developing for specific hardware, don't. Is his unity game going on the PS4? Or is it a PC game?

>> No.1407471

>>1406717
Don't even worry much about those limitations. It just has to sort of look like an 8 bit game. The main limitations are what the target audience will find attractive. That being hipster faggots.

>> No.1407652

The important thing is to work within constraints. Every game ever made, including modern games, look and play the way they do because of how the hardware is designed. Back then, consoles weren't essentially weaker, locked down PCs that gave the user a variable performance for each game. Every console had their strengths and weaknesses, and they all had to be programmed from scratch. Game A would have to be programmed three times if you wanted it for the NES, SMS, and Atari 7800, with -maybe- some shared assets, and each of those games had to be programmed in a way that took advantage of the hardware.

For example, the SMS has one significant flaw from the NES in that the console couldn't flip sprites. If you wanted your guy to face left, you had to waste space to include left facing sprites as well as right facing sprites. However, some companies took this as a trick and decided to make the sprite look different, such as his eyepatch being on the closest eye when walking left and moving it to the farthest eye when walking right. You could do this on the NES as well, but this was essentially a "trick" that SMS progammers have grown to get used to.

>> No.1407727

>>1406737
>I don't have access to 8-bit electronics.
emulators motherfucker

>>1406717
sprite count, and learn how that relates to scanlines. for example NES can do 64 8x8 sprites on screen but only 8 per scanline

>> No.1407958

>>1407049
>All 8-bit console games were locked at 60FPS
>All
American dumbass detected.

>>1407062
It's not a good idea to use color 0x0D.

>>1407727
>I never experienced how a game worked differently on the real hardware than on emulators
Yeah, i remember when i got my GB flashcart.
I put pokemon brown on it.
The graphics where fucked up on my real GB.

>> No.1408804

>>1406965
to counter your autism against my autism
>what indie developers think 8bit looks like style

>> No.1409508

>>1406774
Aren't there 100% accurate NES emulators?

>> No.1409512

>>1406729
Not the OP, but is assembly still necessary? Are there still not efficient C compilers/libraries out there for these platforms?

>> No.1410019

>>1409508
I once coded something, that used the MMC3 scanline counter and i made some typos.
Nestopia seemed to got everything right (nothing worked).
Nintendulator didn't emulated the MMC3 WRAM disable bit properly.
Jnes got the MMC3 scanline counter wrong.
FCEUX (used as debugger) got everything wrong.

The mistakes were:
>LDA #80 (not #$80)
>STA $A001
WRAM mustn't be enabled because i wrote a 0x50 the register.

>Setting both sprites and background pattern tables to 0x0000
I didn't used any sprites yet, so i didn't thought about that.
The scanline counter only works if both use different tables.

I used 4 different emulators and got 4 different results.

>>1409512
Yes, but assembler is still better for a platform which CPU is in the one digit megahertz range.

>> No.1412194

>>1409512
There have been C compilers for them since the early days, but C actually isn't a good match. You need a little bit more control than C gives you in order to make the most of those machines.

I could actually see it being more feasible, with the machines we have now, to write a really aggressive whole-program optimizing compiler for a much /higher/ level language than C (one which communicates more about the programmer's intent) and burn fucktons of cycles optimizing memory layout, instruction sequences (like the GNU superoptimizer), etc. But there's no motivation to do that since people write assembly for these platforms for fun, anyway.

>> No.1412212

>>1409508
No. And bsnes isn't 100% accurate either.

>> No.1412242

you probably already watch this video, but im gonna post it just to make sure
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hvx4xXhZMrU
i hope you find it useful

>> No.1412369

Do not make 2D games in Unity, please. It's absolute overkill and will only make your job harder.

These people can help:
>>>/vg/60540615

>> No.1412383

not /vr/

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