/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.1379546]

If it wasn't for SSB I think Star Fox would be a goner.

It's a B-tier Nintendo series right now. It's quite well-known but few seem to actually play it past 64. SF could have easily been one of those series that died after 1 or 2 games but Smash keeps it from not being a series we talk about exclusively in past tense

[Anonymous No.1379578]

It's kind of funny how it's considered one of Nintendo's most beloved series yet it really has only one excellent game. The rest range from decent to downright bad.

[Anonymous No.1379589]

>>1379546

Since someone else is going to say it:

Kamiya really wants to make a Star Fox game.

[Anonymous No.1379605]

>>1379589
http://www.examiner.com/article/nintendo-expanding-licensing-considering-mergers-to-combat-poor-sales-figures?cid=db_articles

It's looking more and more likely.

[Anonymous No.1379607]

Not retro, but:

How was the Gamecube game? I heard it was decent enough.

[Anonymous No.1379613]

>>1379607
Assault? I actually liked it. It had some big flaws, mainly with the ground segments, but most of the flying segments were golden and approached Star Fox 64 levels.

[Anonymous No.1379614]

>>1379607
Decent's a very good word for it. It had a more robust narrative but that robbed it of a lot of the arcadey feel of 64.

[Anonymous No.1379617]

>>1379613
Snap, should have specified it. Adventure. I know it deviates from the SF series, but I'm interested in it as a game rather than a series entry, I guess.

[Anonymous No.1379618]

>>1379607

there are 10 stages in the game, no branching paths like 64

1, 5, and 10 are on rails, and pretty good

the rest are "free roaming", "on-foot" etc and are pretty awful

[Anonymous No.1379630]

>>1379617
It's a Zelda clone and it isn't even good by Zelda clone standards. I liked Rare but by the end it's clear they didn't care about Star Fox Adventures. And I'm with them on that.

[Anonymous No.1379634]

>>1379630
>>1379618
>>1379614
>>1379613
Thanks for the input.

[Anonymous No.1379635]

It just got real shitty. If the gamecube games had actually been good it would still be on top.

Nintendo needs to give it to a new dev. Preferably one familiar with shmups.

[Anonymous No.1379640]

>>1379634
>>1379618 is talking about Assault, by the way. Adventures had almost no flying sections and the ones it did have weren't very good.

[Anonymous No.1379648]

>>1379630
I know this is common knowledge, but it was originally going to be an original Rare IP called Dinosaur Planet before it was retooled into Star Fox. I really wish it stayed as Dinosaur Planet, because it suffered a hell of an identity crisis as a Star Fox game.

[Anonymous No.1379656]

>>1379546
I think once Nintendo started getting good Star Wars flying games released on their hardware, they didn't need Star Fox to fill that niche anymore.

>>1379617
>awkward fictional language
>generic zelda-like dungeons
>long convoluted fetch quests nested within fetch quests
>Arwing sections less than a minute long
But the graphics are excellent and the music is soothing. There's some fun t-rex battles near the end though they never respawn after you kill them once.

[Anonymous No.1379705]

>>1379578
Hey, the first two were some of the best games on the SNES, it's just that SF64 was so much better.

[Anonymous No.1379767]

I still think Adventures is a good game. I especially loves what it did with the dungeon formula. Everyone of them is completely different in both approach and structure. So you'll have two fairly linear and two very open, with actually different objectives to do rather than the fucking FIND KEYS TO OPEN DOORS, GET NEW ITEM, USE ITEM TO FIND BOSS KEY, BEAT THE BOSS WITH THE ITEM.

The only thing I wish was that it'd have an open world map and actual sidequests. Every area was just like a narrow passage to the next one, it would've benefited a lot from a larger hub than Thorntail Hollow and having the Warpstone actually warp you to more than two places.
Going through gated hallways to load the next area is a clever way to hide load times, but gets fucking tedious after the third time.

People usually gives the game a bad rap for not being a proper Starfox game. If you want an interesting Zelda game that toys around a lot with the usual tropes and formulas, you'll have a good time.

[Anonymous No.1379836]

>>1379705
>it's just that SF64 was so much better
I think the SNES game is better, personally. The only real improvements 64 brings to the table are obvious things like higher framerate and draw distance, and much better scoring (though the scoring is kind of broken in a lot of places).
Aside from that, it has significantly less scrolling shooter stages (original has 20 stages, all scrolling, 64 has 16 stages, 5 of them all-range mode only), significantly less bosses, less stage/boss music, the music isn't nearly as good, and the level of challenge is much lower.
These differences come down to personal preference, but I like Star Fox's three totally separate paths more than the branching paths of 64, I never cared for all the voice acting in 64, and Star Fox had a greater emphasis on dodging stage hazards which I enjoy.

Star Fox 2 you can't really compare to either game. It's a very different beast.
I will say that I think 2 pulled off all-range mode a hell of a lot better than 64 though. Being able to boost or brake infinitely and being able to transform into a mech that can stay still eliminates that issue where you're constantly passing your target and have to keep turning around to get off a few shots before you pass it again.
2 also had much greater enemy variety. In 64's all-range mode levels you only have generic ships, stationary bosses that do little if anything to attack you, turrets that rarely shoot, missiles, and Star Wolf. For 5 levels, that's all you get.

[Anonymous No.1379856]

>>1379648
Was there a reason they retooled it?

[Anonymous No.1379862]

>>1379856
Because they didn't want to give Rare another good IP before they were sold off to Microsoft.

[Anonymous No.1379925]

>>1379856
>Was there a reason they retooled it?
They likely saw an increased interest in the franchise after Super Smash Bros.
Nintendo, with no interest in making another Starfox game, asked Rare to do some shit with the game they were already making starring a fox adventuring. Easy cash.

[Anonymous No.1380019]

>>1379925
I dunno, I think >>1379862 is more likely.
By making the original IP into a Star Fox game, they ensure that Microsoft has one less great IP they can use in the future.
Too bad both Dinosaur Planet and the Star Fox series were ruined in the process.

[Anonymous No.1380049]

>>1380019
They changed it to Starfox way over a year before the Microsoft sellout, though.

[Anonymous No.1380054]

>>1380049
But they were well aware someone else might buy the studio in the near future at the time, right? It doesn't have to be Microsoft specifically.

[Anonymous No.1380071]

>>1380019
>Too bad both Dinosaur Planet and the Star Fox series were ruined in the process.
What? No they weren't.

[Anonymous No.1380075]

>>1380054
Perhaps, but I still don't buy it. It feels too far apart. Rare was sold like two months before the release of the final game. Development of further Gamecube games like Kameo was already underway by that point.

[Anonymous No.1380078]

>>1380071
How weren't they?

[Anonymous No.1380085]

>>1380078

How were they?

Nothing about Dinosaur Planet was ruined, and this was a spinoff game for Star Fox. You might as well say that Super Mario RPG ruined Mario.

[Anonymous No.1380092]

>>1380085
>Nothing about Dinosaur Planet was ruined
Except not being made.

[Anonymous No.1380094]

>>1380092
wat

[Anonymous No.1380098]

>>1380094
What do you not get? They had a new interesting IP going on, which was basically Rare's answer to Zelda. By not finishing that game, Dinosaur Planet was ruined, because it couldn't be picked up again.

[Anonymous No.1380102]

>>1380098
>They had a new interesting IP going on

No they really didn't. It was a decent Zelda clone, nothing more.

[Anonymous No.1380110]

>>1380085
Dinosaur Planet's story was certainly completely ruined by shoehorning in Star Fox elements (you don't think it was originally ANDROSS ALL ALONG! do you?), and weren't Krystal and some other guy both supposed to be playable at different points and shit? Obviously they had to change a decent amount of stuff, no doubt for the worse since it was all done last minute.

Star Fox Adventures is not a spin-off. It is a main entry in the series, with a clear place in the timeline, and it is all canon. Planet Sauria and Prince Tricky show up in Assault, and obviously Krystal sticks around for every subsequent game in the series (which the majority of people don't appreciate).
This isn't even remotely comparable to Super Mario RPG. That game is clearly a spin-off, and the stuff it introduced didn't creep into the main Mario games. Plus, let's not forget it was actually designed from the beginning to be a Mario game.

[Anonymous No.1380112]

>>1380102
>No they really didn't. It was a decent Zelda clone, nothing more.
I think that's worth more than enough.

In the end, we would've probably been better off, as it would've been its own thing while people wouldn't have bitched for years about Starfox being ruined.

[Anonymous No.1380114]

>>1379607
pretty good, ground parts were dodgy, but the flying was great. also god tier multiplayer, reminiscent of Kirby Air Ride

[Anonymous No.1381287]

>>1379607
Assault?
it didnt had the level variety of 64,it was arcade oriented,but the multiplayer is 10 times better than 64 multiplayer

[Anonymous No.1381297]

>>1379617

It's actually got some real legit puzzles in it

Would have been so much better as Dinosaur Planet though

[Anonymous No.1381316]

>>1381287
The single player seriously feels like an afterthought in Assault, and it very well may have been.
All of the non-scrolling-shooter stages are just multiplayer maps with single player objectives tacked on to them, and most of the music is just 64's soundtrack being played by an orchestra. Everything feels very lazy except for the first level, and maybe the final boss, which are both pretty decent.
The only real reason to play the game is for those bits, and the multiplayer, and I'm pretty sure there isn't even an option to have computer players in multiplayer, so if you don't have anyone to play with, you're fucked.

[Anonymous No.1381327]

>>1379856
Money? Nintendo knows better than anyone that new IPs don't sell as well as MARIO/PIKACHU/OTHER BELOVED MASCOT IN A DIFFERENT GENRE

[Anonymous No.1381356]

After wii they should have focused on making their trademark games more multiplayer appealing.Not just future games but also classic games remade with online multiplayer like golden eye.A star fox with campaign like 64 and a multiplayer where you can upgrade,huge multiplayer matches and leader boards would be great.

[Anonymous No.1381357]

>>1379546
I got to Star Fox thanks to SSB. Before that I never knew who "Star Fox" was. So then I bought SF 64 and went buying the other games. Although I grew up with SF64, Star Fox 2 is my favorite game in the franchise. Do to Nintendo not being able to emulate the Super FX chip, why can't they re-make SF2, add in some new features and release it?

inb4 command

[Anonymous No.1381361]

I think a multiplayer Star Fox game that would be 4 people again 4 people could be successful.

You could mention that you are under attack in some part of the map, and the other three guys in your sqaud would go to help you.

[Anonymous No.1381382]

>>1381357
They really need to remake the original as well.
My concern with a remake would be how they handle the graphics.
Both of the SNES Star Fox games are very heavily stylized so that they don't look like shit with so few polygons... so how do you update that exactly?
Do you give it modern graphics like in Star Fox 64 3D, totally update all models, add textures and lighting effects and so forth to everything, and hope it looks okay and doesn't ruin the style of the originals too much? What does something like the giant Andross face boss look like in that case? What about the Arwing transformation animations in 2 that only work because of how low-poly the Arwings are? Would the music feel a bit out of place with modern graphics and need to be updated?
Do you just leave the games more or less as they are but with obvious enhancements like higher resolution, draw distance, and frame rate, z-buffering, elimination of dithering, things fading out properly as they get further away, better sprite scaling for 2D obstacles and projectiles, touched up animations, etc.?
Do you give it a sort of intentionally retro 3D look like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjeJhZhAgAk
as some compromise between the stylized graphics of the original and the modern graphics people expect?

[Anonymous No.1381406]

>>1381382
>Starfox doesn't look like shit

I'd say something about nostalgia goggles, but it was always ugly.

[Anonymous No.1381415]

>>1381406
All I'm saying is the graphics are entirely designed with the limitations of the SNES and Super FX chip in mind, and you can't really just replace everything with modern models and textures and such and have it look all that good as a result.
Personally I think Star Fox looks just fine, and I don't think it's nostalgia since I never played the game until about 2009. I think a lot of old 3D games look just fine as long as they don't try to be realistic, honestly.

[Anonymous No.1381416]

>>1379605
>First Metal Gear Rising, now this

IN THE GLORIOUS FUTURE ALL SERIES WILL HAVE PLATINUM GAMES DEVELOPED ENTRIES

RED SUN OVER PARADISE

[Anonymous No.1381423]

>>1381416
We want Kamiya, not Platinum. The dude can do more than just beat 'em up action games, he's a huge fan of forward scrolling shooters like Space Harrier, After Burner, and especially Star Fox 64, and he really fucking wants to work on a game in the series.
I can't think of anyone or any company that could possibly do a better job except maybe Treasure, but they haven't done much of anything to prove their worth in quite a while.

[Anonymous No.1381473]

>>1381382
if they will remake the SNES starfox,they must use the art-style of the comic and dont use SF64 arwings,use the damn SNES arwings

[Anonymous No.1381475]

>>1381423
Treasure is kinda dead and starfox always has a curse,if its made by a third party,it will end up being underwhelming,you want a good starfox?
make Sora Ltd. to make one

[Anonymous No.1381505]

>>1381475
>starfox always has a curse,if its made by a third party,it will end up being underwhelming
Yeah, no. There's no "curse", especially not since you can justify the failure of Adventures and Assault for being a totally unrelated game turned into a Star Fox game probably at Nintendo's request, and a game originally designed to be multiplayer oriented that basically had a single player campaign thrown together at the last minute (I mean for fuck's sake, there's almost as many multiplayer modes as there are levels are single player, and with only three exceptions, all of the levels are just multiplayer maps), respectively.

>make Sora Ltd. to make one
Didn't the company officially close 2 years ago, and isn't it going to dissolve after Kerfuffle is finished?
I can only assume you made this suggestion because of Kid Icarus: Uprising. Here's a few issues with that:
KI:U was originally designed to be a Star Fox game in the first place, but Sakurai changed it to Kid Icarus because it fit the game concept he had in mind better. And that's the thing, Sakurai makes whatever the fuck he thinks will be fun, he really isn't interested in being tied down making some sequel. Hell, a lot of the reason he left HAL in the first place is he was tired of sequels.
Sakurai is not interested in making a sequel to KI:U, which you can probably assume also means he isn't interested in making anything LIKE KI:U, and that means Star Fox.

[Anonymous No.1381527]

>>1381473

>they must use the art-style of the comic

god no

[Anonymous No.1381549]

>>1381423
>they haven't done much of anything to prove their worth in quite a while.
I'm pretty sure Sin and Punishment 2 is not only acclaimed and recent, but basically the same type of game as Star Fox.

[Anonymous No.1381661]

>>1379546
Didn't work for F-Zero

[Anonymous No.1382008]

>>1381549
Sin and Punishment: Star Successor was 5 years ago which I don't consider all that recent, and personally, I didn't think it was anywhere near as good as the original.
It's also fundamentally a bit different from Star Fox since movement and aiming are totally separate, among other things.
But yeah, that's the reason I even mentioned Treasure in the first place.

[Anonymous No.1382083]

Was SF64 the last one that wasn't outsourced? Nintendo really loves to just hand out their less popular IPs to no-name studious.

[Anonymous No.1382092]

Holy fucking shit, I just beat Star Fox 2 for the first time and that was a blast. I feel like I lost something in translation on the world map though, am I able to separate my ships? Also it seems like anything that isn't Fox or Falco are kind of meh, but, aside from that I'm going to jump into hard mode.

[Anonymous No.1382119]

>>1380085

But SMRPG was good and actually finished.

Although I agree that Adventures didn't ruin anything. Assault, despite being decent, really began the fall when you simply couldn't call it one of Nintendo's triple A series like it was for SNES and N64. Command being solidified the series to its comatose state.

[Anonymous No.1382121]

>>1381357

I admit I've never played SF2, but from the videos I've seen it looks just as boring as Command. What sets it apart?

[Anonymous No.1382217]

>>1382092
Update, just cleared hard mode. I feel like I could make the jump to expert is all I have to do is just keep track of everything. This is a ton of fun. What's the max ranking by the way, 5 stars? Also, how do I get twin blasters, I got it once my first playthrough but I can't see to spot anything to give it to me.

[Anonymous No.1382363]

>>1382217
Well I cleared expert mode but I'm fucking furious at myself for not being able to prevent Corneria from taking any damage. It was such a fucking stupid easy mistake too, and I know if I did it again I could do it perfectly. Just fucking angry as hell at myself over it.

[Anonymous No.1382437]

>>1379546
Same could be said about Kid Icarus.

[Anonymous No.1382493]

>>1382363
>Falco & Miyu

You good sir are a scholar and a gentleman with fine taste and also my nigga

[Anonymous No.1382515]

>>1382363
I am impress.

[Anonymous No.1382518]

>>1381423

Given his obsession with auto scroller shooters, wow yea, Starfox would be a perfect fit for him.

[Anonymous No.1382827]

>>1382363
'Debriefing' is spelled incorrectly.

[Anonymous No.1382856]

>>1382493
It seemed like the proper combination between all of them, Miyu got a lot more use than Falco that run though.

>>1382515
That was my third time playing the game, I started with normal and over the course of about an hour or so beat all three modes. I plan on coming back to it for that perfect score. I don't know what the max rank is though.

[Anonymous No.1382873]

>>1382856
Max rank is a golden Mario head, I believe.

[Anonymous No.1382874]

>>1382008

Star successor was leagues better than 1, if not simply for the controller but still.

[Anonymous No.1382882]

>>1381415
They should just make it for the 3DS and give it the 3D effect like Galaxy Force II 3D.

[Anonymous No.1382884]

>>1382873
Not >>1382856 but I yeah I remember a Youtube video were the game was entering a Space stage an randomly finishes the game. It's been a long time since I've seen that video

[Anonymous No.1382892]

>>1382874
The controls aren't better though.
They're simpler, because all you have to do is point at the screen, but they aren't actually any better.

[Anonymous No.1382903]

>>1382892

Controlling your character shouldn't be the challenge.

[Anonymous No.1382914]

>>1382903
And it isn't. Because the controls work perfectly fine.

[Anonymous No.1382931]

>>1382873
>>1382884
How do I get this, and what causes me to get higher ranks? I believe it's related to points, but, I wouldn't know. Can you give me some hints or something?

[Anonymous No.1382951]

>>1382914

I've only used GCN/Keyboard, so I guess i can't speak for the 64 controller. Why anyone wouldn't want a light gun shooter mixed with analog movement is beyond me.

[Anonymous No.1382953]

>>1382914
Personally, I find that the only way to play S&P1 is with a N64 controller. Problem is, not everyone has it in them to hard-mod their N64 or can afford to import the console from Japan, so they're stuck with the Wii Classic, Classic Pro, and maybe also Gamecube controllers (I own a Wii U but not a Wii, so I'm not sure about that last one) which can hinder some people's abilities to control Saki and Irene simply from the difference in design.

I'm sure there's a way to get a N64 controller to plug into a Wii remote, but 3rd party devices are pretty hit-or-miss

[Anonymous No.1382960]

>>1382931
Sorry bro, I can't seem to find the video. Maybe he triggered a debug command not yet documented

[Anonymous No.1382969]

I actually thought Command was a good game.

[Anonymous No.1383020]

>>1382969

ssssssshhhhhuuunnnn

[Anonymous No.1383107]

>>1382951
>>1382953
I dunno, I've been playing it in emulators with this set up (which is more or less identical to the default control scheme on N64 controllers) for so long that I don't really remember what it's like on Virtual Console.
The issue here is the Virtual Console service is shit because it doesn't let you change controls. The game itself is perfectly fine.

[Anonymous No.1383252]

>>1379607

As a Dinosaur Planet fangirl it kills me but as a Star Fox fan I find it fun.

Personally I consider Star Fox a C-tier Nintendo series, like F Zero. In the 90s it was B-tier

[Anonymous No.1385041]

>>1383252
Are you talking about Assault, or what?