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/vr/ - Retro Games

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1354407 No.1354407 [Reply] [Original]

Last thread 404d after waiting 2 weeks+ plus for a replacement chip which may or may not fix the issue. Today i finally got said chip. Ironically I have a few things to attend to before I can seat the chip and see the results.

>> No.1354413
File: 1.00 MB, 350x191, dis gon b gud.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1354413

Into the thread watcher it goes.

>> No.1354610

>>1354407
Bad news, same results.
However I did replace the socket on which the chip sits, in the process removing a few solder pads, wondering if that may have something to do with it

>> No.1354707

Bump

>> No.1354958

>>1354610
Oh no! Now was it exactly the same results as when you originally got it, before you ever fucked with anything or is it a new but sort of similar problem?

Because the order things have happened in, at my guess is..
>Chip had failing legs, some possibly completely broken/corroded to 0 conductivity
>Chip is removed, possibly completely breaking some almost-broken areas
>Socket is replaced, but new circuits are broken

If this is the case, then swapping chips should still have helped SOMETHING since your old chip had straight up broken legs...

But yeah, the next step is to solder some wires to the legs you're suspicious of and run the wires to some solder points on the same trace.

You could try to scrape the traces and making a solder bridge between the leg and the exposed copper traces before you run wires but you will probably end up running the wires anyway.

You can test if this needs to be done and on which legs/traces by connecting your multimeter to the socket leg and the solder point you've located on the same trace. If it doesn't give you continuity (the Omega symbol) then it needs repaired.

>> No.1355268

>>1354958
I'm somewhat confused.
I replaced the socket because a pin or two came detached from the chip and wouldn't come out. Removing the socket took a few contact pads with it also. So now i have a new chip with new socket but lost solder pads in the process. Not sure what's the easiest way to fix this is.

>> No.1355282

>>1355268
The easiest way to fix it is to run wires from the legs of the socket that aren't connected to the traces to solder points that share the traces.

The legs of the socket stick through the board and connect to traces (the green parts) on the pcb. Losing the pads may be keeping the legs from connecting to the traces. You can check this with a multimeter. There are other solder points on the same traces, where other components stick through the board on the same green area (trace) that the leg in question is supposed to be connected to.

Put the switch on your multimeter to the omega to test for continuity. Touch the leg you're suspicious of with one probe and the other solder point you've located that is supposed to share the trace. If it doesn't read continuity (or beep) then it needs to be connected, The easiest and surest way is with a wire and some solder.

>> No.1355306

>>1355282
So test socket pin to trace on PCB?
Some of them have pads on the back and some have pads on the front, so to test the ones on the front ill have to unseat the chip. This may be a struggle.

>> No.1355316

>>1355306
You don't have to test the ones on the front, they should all be connected, front and back. But if you want to be sure it shouldn't be too hard to unseat the chip if you do it correctly. Your old one probably lost legs because it was corroded but just to be sure, you could use a chip puller tool they're real cheap, or just work both edges of the chip evenly up and away from the socket with a flat head screwdreiver until you make enough space under the chip to get the screwdriver all the way underneath to lift it up.

>> No.1355323

>>1355316
Yeah I've been using the flat head screwdriver method.
I've only used this multimeter like once in my life, shouldn't i get a beep on continuity when touching the probes together? If so, mines not.

>> No.1355863

>>1355323
There's an audible continuity mode on most multimeters and it's the easiest to use because you can be making sure you're touching the right points on the board/component/solder point etc. It should look like an omega (the symbol for continuity) and then maybe little radiating lines, it's different on different multimeters but I've never used one that didn't have it - although it's possible.

At any rate, when you have it in continuity testing mode and you touch the probes together you will get the result for an intact circuit, yes.

>> No.1356575

>>1355863
OK had a busy day, ill test the pins when i get home, I'm sure at least one isn't wired properly

>> No.1356947

>>1356575
OK i did what you said, touch chip legs to underside of socket pins. Got continuity on all of them. I did notice tho, when i touch the top and bottom of that chip in certain positions the vectors bug out. Does this narrow down my problem at all?

>> No.1357006

>>1356947
No, you need to test the socket pins to another place on the trace. Follow the trace to where some other component should be connecting to it and check for continuity there.

The legs of the socket will be sticking out through the bottom of the board in contact with a green area, atrace. This trace (green or possibly gold area) will connect to some other component, or many other components. There should be continuity between the socket leg and everyplace else the trace connects. If not, add a wire.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nxz84M6u57k

This guy has performed the basic type of repair that you should be doing on a similarly corroded PCB. A 2nd gen system like Vectrex will be easier to work on than a 4th gen system but hopefully it will help you get the concept.

>> No.1357041

>>1357006
That was somewhat helpful, but i think in order for me to do this correctly would require me to once again desolder my socket, correct? If that's the case ill have to purchase some desolder braid from somewhere - preferably not radio shack.
I can snap a few photos n videos too if that'll help.

>> No.1357052

>>1357041
Nope you'll only end up lifting more pads. Just pretend you're going to need to run those wires for every single leg and choose the points you would jump to then test them for continuity with the socket. If they have continuity there's no need to add a jumper wire. If they don't... add one and GET continuity.

>> No.1357068

>>1357052
This makes sense, only one question about it, after testing for continuity and finding none, i would then solder wire from the socket leg on the under side of the board to the correct area where the trace ends right?

>> No.1357070

>>1357068
Or the top. Wherever you're most confident of getting a good connection. You could even theoretically only solder the far end and just jam the other end of the wire into the socket with the leg. Lots of arcade boards have jumpers installed this way but you would be running the risk of damaging your new socket by stretching out one of the holes too much. It's your call.

>> No.1357081

>>1357070
Ill play it safe, I'm just hesitant to solder anything else to this damn thing, I've had shit luck with it so far

>> No.1357134

>>1357081
I think you're going to get it fixed. You already sort-of know where the main problem probably is.

>> No.1357158

>>1357134
I hope so. Some of these traces are so damn small i can't even tell where they go.
Talk about frustrating...

>> No.1357164

>>1357158
Get a better light on it. They should be relatively big on something like a Vectrex. On Ataris they're fucking enormous.

>> No.1357173

>>1357164
I think I'm actually making progress, the only downside is this will take me some time to do.
Thanks.

>> No.1357179

>>1357173
Making slow but sure progress is better than what you did before so you're already becoming a better /vr/ trooper.

>> No.1357227
File: 47 KB, 480x854, 1390463768381.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1357227

>>1357179
I'm headed to bed, however i came across a weird issue. In the illustration i get continuity up until the end mark, but nothing farther, kinda hard to explain. Its also a bit dirty on that side so maybe that's to blame.

>> No.1357231

>>1357227
The trace may just pass through to the other side of the board at that point. Just let your mind mill it while you sleep you'll have a new perspective when you work on it next time.

>> No.1357248

>>1357231
It should end at that red wire point tho right? I'd like to look farther into this for obvious reasons

>> No.1357539

I said in the original thread to practice on junk, but nah, full steam ahead, minus one Vectrex.

>> No.1358680

>>1357539
That kind of attitude will get you far in life.
I'm less optimistic than you and even i know it can be fixed. Figure even if its not the chip, it could be the capacitors. It still has life.

>> No.1358690

>>1357248
Well that blue line you drew sort of throws it off but it looks like the trace disappears under the chip, probably running to the leg you have the line drawn to but maybe not you'll have to look under the chip.

>> No.1358752

>>1358690
from the pin to the resistor is one trace, however on the other side of the resistor is a wider trace which leads me to believe my illustration actually shows where two different traces meet and end. But i really don't know if that's true or not.

>> No.1358802

>>1358752
If there's a resistor between them it's not the same trace

>> No.1358848

>>1358802
I'm pretty sure that things a resistor, no?

>> No.1358853

>>1358848
R203? Yeah that's a resistor alright.

>> No.1358858

>>1358853
Alright so next pin then, considering i get continuity from the pin to the resistor

>> No.1358924

>>1358858
Yup. That one checks out. That's how you do it... While you have that point on the resistor isolated you might want to check the other nearby legs of the ic for NOT having continuity, to be sure you have no shorts.

>> No.1358958 [SPOILER] 
File: 46 KB, 480x854, 1390539913836.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1358958

>>1358924
I can't find this pins trace, I've been looking for a while now.... shit.

>> No.1358959

>>1358958
Not sure why it was spoiled tho

>> No.1359261

>>1358959
If anyone knows where the trace is/goes let me know, or else ill have to desolder the socket which i reeeaallly don't want to do...

>> No.1359431

>>1357227
are you saying you don't get continuity through the resistor? if that's the case use the ohmeter to see if it's in spec. if it's damaged it may either be broken or its putting out 100% resistance

>> No.1359574

>>1358958
Not every pin necessarily has a function or a trace. Just check both sides of the board closely and if it has no trace on either side, skip it.

>> No.1360271

>>1359261
Get a data sheet for the chip. It will tell you what each pin does which should give you an idea of where it goes to or if it's working. According to the data sheet pin 40 is reset. If the chip's doing anything, which it clearly is, then the reset circuit is working.
Going through the pins one by one is the most thorough but starting with the ones that had the pads lifted just makes sense. They're numbered counter clock wise, 1-40, from the lower left corner.
Also, you need to get over your obsession with fucking with that socket. Removing the socket will let you view a couple mm of traces. You could easily divine where they go by looking at what's on each side of that 2 mm. They generally don't do anything funny in that space just go in a straight line. If you can't see a trace it's because it's on the back of the board. Have a look there and where it leads will be clear.

>> No.1360695

>>1359431
>>1359574
>>1360271
Yeah some appear useless, meaning i see no traces, the one i marked may have a trace but I'm not entirely sure.

>> No.1360991

>>1360271
But yeah i was looking at the schematics, shits helpful but also confusing as fuck.

>> No.1361109

>>1360695
Pins 5, 35 and 36 are listed as no connection in the datasheet. Also I doubt that chip needs to address 64K so I wouldn't be surprised if some of the address lines are unused as well.

>> No.1361120

>>1361109
Are we looking at different data sheets? Mine says those are connected. Looking at the logic board schematic on console5

>> No.1361515

>>1361120
I'm sure we are. I'm looking at the pinout in the datasheet from the chip manufacture. Console5 seems to be down so I'm not sure what you're seeing. You can always hook up a trade to an unused pin but it won;t affect the chip in any way.

>> No.1362903

>>1361515
Here's what I'm looking at. I just want to make sure were on the same page.

http://console5.com/wiki/Vectrex

>> No.1363390

>>1362903
Something's wrong with their ISP. I can't reach their Tier 3 network. Will try a proxy when I get a chance. Or if you can post what you have.

>> No.1363414

>>1363390
My Vectrex works fine and so does the site for me but I'm really pulling for OP

IC207: PIA: 6522

GND |1 +--+ 40| CA1
PA0 |2 39| CA2
PA1 |3 38| RS0
PA2 |4 37| RS1
PA3 |5 36| RS2
PA4 |6 35| RS3
PA5 |7 34| /RES
PA6 |8 33| D0
PA7 |9 32| D1
PB0 |10 31| D2
PB1 |11 6522 30| D3
PB2 |12 29| D4
PB3 |13 28| D5
PB4 |14 27| D6
PB5 |15 26| D7
PB6 |16 25| Φ2
PB7 |17 24| CS1
CB1 |18 23| /CS2
CB2 |19 22| R/W
VCC |20 21| /IRQ

>> No.1363640

>>1363390
>>1363414
Thanks for all the support, ill recheck everything tomorrow, i made some progress today by testing continuity, but that beeping noise just added to my already existing headache. However I'm free all day tomorrow so maybe ill ending finding what's wrong.

>> No.1363895

>>1363414
I was looking at the datasheet for the SY6522 since that's what it says on the chip. Not sure if the data sheet is wrong, label is wrong or what. It looks like they might have incorrectly used the 6502 pinout in the datasheet but how this would go uncorrected for decades is beyond me. I'm guessing that website has the correct information since they appear to have a whole section on the Vectrex so I'll work of the MOS datasheet. In that case there's no NC pins.

>> No.1363958

>>1363895
I think there's one NC pin that I've come across so far

>> No.1364964

Revival bump

>> No.1365139

>>1363958
There are two chip enable lines. It's likely they only use one. Is 23/24 not connected?

Pin 40 is a control line for Port A. So is 39. See if you can follow either of those to their destination and check continuity.

If you can find a circuit diagram or clean scans of both sides of the board that would make it a lot easier.

>> No.1366445

>>1365139
good and bad news , good news is everything seems to have continuity. Bad new is i think a different chip is causing my issue...

>> No.1366479

>>1366445
If pushing on the chip changed the issues then something is going on with that chip.

I get up every morning and looking for this thread hoping to read "I fixed it! Working perfectly now!"

I believe you'll get it, OP. Is there a reason you suspect another chip? Is there similar corrosion visible elsewhere?

>> No.1366574

>>1366479
Here ill upload another video in about 5mins. I'm making progress (i think) but at the same time nothing is making sense about it.

>> No.1366814

>>1366574
Shit, got unexpected company.

>> No.1367512

OK. I managed to get hold of a schematic and block diagram of the board. Very interesting how everything lays out neatly on the schematic and is the complete opposite on the board. I guess it's a limitation of using a single layer.

The screen control goes from the 6522 to the 1408 and 4052. These chips (and the components between them and the screen) are where the problem will be.

Can you post an updated picture of what the screen sounds like? From what I remember from before shapes didn't join up at the corners correctly. This could be as simple as a bad connection on the lowest bit on port A of the 6522. Also, hows the sound now?

>> No.1367530

>>1367512
This guy right here. Awesome.

Also
>an updated picture of what the screen sounds like

Seriously though you really seem to have narrowed it down for op. I want him to fix it! I'm rooting for him!

>> No.1367691

>>1367512
It actually stopped working all together, working on fixing it up, its done this before.
>>1367530
Hopefully sooner than later huh

>> No.1369002

>>1367691
What's the problem now? You didn't find another socket to molest, did you?

>> No.1369359

>>1369002
Not yet. Its displaying a single white dot.
Trying to resolve it.

>> No.1369684

>>1369359
Do you get sound though? If not you almost certainly still have a problem at the 6522.

>> No.1369691

>>1369684
I don't. No sound.

>> No.1369769

>>1369691
I guess start checking voltage on pins 1 and 20 to make sure you get something at the top of the leg. Also can you give me a list of pins you had pad trouble with when you changed the socket?

>> No.1369797

>>1369769
Pads removed: 1, 10, 12 (half & half), 21, 25, 26, 35, & 37 is somewhat lifted but not removed. This is from the under side of the board, not sure what came off on the top side because socket is now there.
Pins that gave me either an issue or no continuity: 1, 10, 12, 21, 40.
Also chip 4004 is finicky when touched, realized that the other day.
Need anything else?

>> No.1370003

>>1369797
Pin one is ground. Check continuity to any ground on the board. If you don't get it there's your problem. At least one of them.
10 and 12 drive the screen. They should connect to pins 10 and 9 on 4025
The schematic shows pin 21 going into one of the ram chips but it doesn't say what pin it goes to. I suspect this is wrong and it actually goes to pin 3 on the CPU (6809). Check that.
25 goes to 34 on the CPU though a 32ohn resister. Check the resistance.
26 is D7. It goes to pin 11 on one of the ram chips (2114). Not sure which chip is high and which is low but if you check them both and one have a connection we'll know that's high and I can make a note on the schematic. Actually pins 26-29 go to pins 11-14 on the high ram chip so if you can find which 2114 connects to any of those we'll know which ram chip is which.
35 and 37 go to pins 4 and 6 on the ram chips.

4004 is another pack of of op amps. It looks like it mostly handles audio but things are really packed tight and mixed on the system so both chips might do parts of both. For example, the sound chip handles controller input because I guess it had a spare port they could use. I'd remove the 4004, clean the pins and socket and see what happens. You can slightly (and I mean very slightly) bend the pins of an IC outwards by a fraction of a mm to get a better fit if it's loose in the socket.

>> No.1370058

>>1370003
Wow. Good stuff, that.

>> No.1370090

>>1370003
Here's a stupid question, what should i ground pin 1 to? Doesn't look grounded to me...

>> No.1370132

>>1370090
Ground should be the 3rd pin down on the power cable. Use your MM to confirm this. The pins should be:
-13
+5
Ground
-5

Once you've confirmed this unplug it and locate an easy to solder to ground place close to pin 1. Ground will be one of the large traces that isn't just a trace but expands to fill empty space on the board. +5 will probably also be one. Just find a solder point that has continuity to the ground pin on the power connector and not to any of the other 3 pins and you'll be good. There will literally be hundreds of potential ground soldering points. The big trace that runs around the top and sides of the 6522 should be ground and would be a good place to start looking.

>> No.1370236

>>1370003
Pin 10 DOESN'T seem to be connected to pin 10 on MC14052B.
Pin 12 IS connected to pin is connected to pin 9 on MC14052B.
Pin 21 IS connected to pin 3 on CPU.
Pin 25 is connected to pin 15 on Sound 8912, but not the CPU chip you said or resistor.
Pin 26 IS connected to pin 11 on B8224MM2114.
Pin 35 IS connected to pin 4 on B8224MM2114.
Pin 37 works, but IS LOOSE & NEEDS TO. BE WIRED.

That's all i got for now thanks for the awesome help.

>> No.1370252

>>1370132
Turns out pin 1 is grounded.

>> No.1370532

Bump

>> No.1370601

>>1370236
>Pin 10
Sorry. I got that wrong. It should connect to pin 6 on the 4025.
>Pin 25
Now I see how this is also supposed to connect to the sound chip. It's a hand drawn schematic probably photocopied a dozen times so it's hard to read and I'm still sure he missed some of the dots to mark intersecting lines that should be connected. That pin is the clock. If it's not connected then the PIA and and sound chip will do nothing which is what it looks like they're doing.
Between the 68A09 and the 6522 there are two resisters (R216/217). R216 is the top one (closest to the 6522). The left side should connect to pin 34 on the 68A09 and the trace should be visible on the top side of the board. The right hand side connects to the 6522 on the bottom. Check continuity between Pin 25 on the 6522 and the right hand side of R216. If you don't get it something is wrong with that trace. It will be easy to bypass if that's the problem.

I'd like to make a note on the component layout about which ram is high and low. Is the pin 26 to 11 connection on the top ram closest to the sound chip or bottom ram closest to the rom?

You can probably leave pin 37 for now. The ram chip might be susceptible to a shaky connection but sorting out the clock problem is the main thing now.

>> No.1370654

>>1370601
Pin 25 gets continuity thru both sides of R216.
Pin 26 connects to the ram chip right above chip LH236301.

>> No.1371176

>>1370654
>Pin 25
Can you double check the connection to pin 34 on the 68A09? R216 should be connected to that.

>Pin 26
Thanks. For the archives or anyone who cares, the 2114 ram chips on the Vectrex are laid out with the lower 4 bits next to the 8912 sound chip and high ram next to the 68A09 CPU

>> No.1371706

>>1371176
>pin 34 (68A09P)
Doesn't seem to be connected to that resistor.

>> No.1371734

>>1371706
Well that looks like the problem. Can you check pin 34 to R226. That's the clock line that leads to the cart.
Also. Look at the trace from pin 34 to R216. It's only like half an inch long. Is it visibly broken or rusty or anything?

>> No.1371753

>>1371734
Had a stroke of autism.
Pin 34 is indeed connected to R216 (was accidentally testing pin 35)
However i don't get continuity between pin 34 and R226

>> No.1372098

>>1371734
Anything else before i head to bed?

>> No.1372672

>>1371753
Looks like there might be a gate before the resistor. Not sure why so I'll have to look into this further. This would only affect the cart slot though so it's not an issue for the built in game.
I'm not sure what the best next diagnostic step is without a scope. Let me give it a bit more thought and see what I can come up with.

>> No.1372694

>>1372672
Thanks, please do.
Chip 4004 or its socket appears to be faulty from what i can tell

>> No.1373606
File: 36 KB, 379x568, 176.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1373606

What if /vr/ actually stands for Vectrex Revival....

>> No.1373613

>>1373606
If this happens it'll have all been worth it this last year.

>> No.1373667

Ill try to post an updated video tonight but I've been somewhat busy lately.

>> No.1374152

>>1373613
Recently picked up a vectrex, and good lord am I impressed with it. What caused it to crash as hard as it did? It's a pretty amazing piece of hardware, with some equally amazing games. Seems to be that it should have done better than it did.

>> No.1376271

>>1373613
i feel ya, op hashad two of the most interesting threads since this board's inception. we''re all pulling for you brother, never give up, never surrender

>> No.1376678

>>1374152
It didn't really crash SO hard but... A bad combo of really expensive and really obscure, on top of release extremely close to the console crash. One might have expected parents to buy it so their kids wouldn't be trying to monopolize what was probably the one TV in the house but I guess not.

>> No.1376783

Alright guys.
This should hopefully help someone help me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8JbMTDx_hg&feature=youtube_gdata_player

>> No.1377939
File: 13 KB, 250x343, frankenstein.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1377939

>>1376783
It's beautiful!

Looks like you have some dry solder joints. Hopefully it's that and not broken traces. Try reflowing the 4004 socket and see if that gets that component working in the socket. If it does then reflow the 6522 and around the power connector. Do the same for other components, in particular the op amps around to 4004. I'm, not sure where the power on problem is coming from but the video problem is somewhere in that upper right hand corner of the board.

>> No.1378448

>>1377939
>op amps around to 4004
Not sure what those are

>> No.1378637

>>1378448
Those are the small chips in that general area. 1405, 1408, 4002, 4004, 4066.

They're a bunch of simple components packed into IC packages that handle the interface between the processors and the outside world. Aside from the power problem it looks like you have sound and graphics running. Cutting in and out on the display but running steadily internally. This would indicate the CPU, PIA and sound chip are fine.

The thing freezing when you mess with the 6522 means you have something loose there, probably a poor solder connection on the socket.

>> No.1378882

>>1378637
Shit, ive re soldered the joints but still no ;_;

>> No.1378884

>>1378882
>no improvement

>> No.1379282

>>1378884
In that case I'd say just reheat everything and pray that fixes it. If not it's probably a broken trace and that's going to be a bitch to track down. Basically testing continuity on every trace until you find the ones that are broken. Not fun

>> No.1379293

>>1379282
Jesus, this thing is truly a pain in the fucking ass...

>> No.1379639

>>1379293
I mean id like to fix it to finally havr a working vectrex & a sense of accomplishment. But I dont think its looking too good, I might replace the 4004 chip, but then again it might not be beneficial...

>> No.1381529
File: 1009 KB, 2560x1920, 20140203_051827.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1381529

I did notice that every leg on the 4004 chip is a bronze/brown color. Every other chip's legs are silver... potential issue?

>> No.1381613

>>1381529
Hard to tell from that pic but looks like bare copper. Modern ones are usually tin plated. Bare copper is susceptible to corrosion and oxidation but if it solders cleanly then there's no problem.

If your MC34004 is dead then there's a good chance a modern OP482 would be a suitable replacement. Specs aren't exactly identical but probably close enough.

>> No.1381636

>>1381613
>solders cleanly
Its a struggle to get any solder on the legs.
Remember in my last video how I was having a hard time getting picture? I fixed it by soldering a pin from the 6522 to the cpu. Boots every time now. Also remember how I wired every leg from the 4004 to the under side? I get much betterpperformance doing it that way rather than actually placing it in the socket. Which leads me to believe its the 4004 and/or the socket. Should I purchase a new 4004? I got a refund for the 6522 because shipping took so long, so im still only $50 in.
Thoughts?

>> No.1381672

>>1381636
I haven't been following your previous posts. If you're having trouble soldering then try a stronger flux. "Rosin Mildly Activated" is common, try "Rosin Activated" or some other stronger flux. Note that strong fluxes are corrosive so you usually need to clean them (eg. with isopronanol). Or try the OP482, costs about $6.

>> No.1381680

>>1381672
Is the OP482 going to do what I need it to do?

>> No.1381684

>>1381680
Both JFET quad opamps with similar specs, but the OP482 has somewhat lower slew rate. I have no idea if that's going to be a problem or not. You'd need to hook up an oscilloscope to a working Vectrex to check. With no information I'd guess 50% chance it works (assuming it's not some other part defective).

>> No.1381690

>>1381684
Shiiiit, there's no other chip I can use?

>> No.1381710

>>1381690
Maybe you can still find a MC34004. Or learn to read datasheets and find a better match yourself.

>> No.1381789

>>1379639
At this point it's clear that you can get it mostly working with some basic tidying up. After that the cause of the problem might take some work to isolate but will be easy to fix. All the major parts are working.

>>1381672
I find using a higher silver content helps, probably because the melting point is closer to what's needed to get it to stick

>>1381690
There are plenty of other chips you might be able to use but finding a 4004 shouldn't be that difficult.

>> No.1381859

>>1381789
So what do you say the next course of action I take is?

>> No.1382607

>>1381859
You need to find out what's causing these intermittent problems that appear/disappear when you wiggle things. The best way to do this is probably going to be to poke parts of it until you find the area where the problem is. Then check traces in that area. Once you find a bad trace/component replace it and move on to the next problem. From what I can see you have a power problem and a video problem. Best to do the power problem first as locating a video problem with intermittent power is going to be a pain in the ass.

>> No.1382728

>>1382607
The power is fine, it boots as it should, but I am having video problems where the vectors dont line up properly or connect. Take the boot up screen for example, it looks like the two rectangular boxes overlap each other in some areas and in others it looks like some vectors are missing

>> No.1382994

>>1382728
This could be a problem with the low bits of the video output anywhere from the PIA or sound chip to the XY cable. The chain is basically this:
PIA+SND->1408->14052->4002+4004->screen

Can you check to see if controller input works. If so I'm guessing the PIA and sound chips are fine. The rest is just basic logic. Shame you can't easily and cheaply replace it.

One think you might try is testing with your multimeter the op amps while it's running (without electrocuting yourself). This should mess up whatever output that component is driving. Hopefully you'll find a chip where it makes the problem better or worse and that will help point you in the right direction.

Unfortunately things aren't laid out very logically among the chips and bits of the same port will be spread across different chips but it will give us something to work with.

>> No.1383885

>>1382994
Controller works fine when plugged up.
However the audio is now off, but I think having to re hard wire the 4004 has something to do with it.
Can you explain how to test op amps? Not sure how you do it. My internets out and im stuck on this god awful 3G

>> No.1383906 [DELETED] 
File: 23 KB, 640x400, opampcheck.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1383906

>>1383885
To properly test them you need a signal generator and a scope. For a basic quick check you could set it up as a voltage follower (assuming it's unity gain stable, which most are, including the 4004) and check with a multimeter. See diagram. R1 and R2 values aren't critical, set them both the same to somewhere about 1K to 100K. Read the datasheet to check battery voltage.

>> No.1383914
File: 23 KB, 640x400, opampcheck.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1383914

>>1383885
To test properly you need a signal generator and a scope. For a basic quick check you could set it up as a voltage follower (assuming it's unity gain stable, which most are, including the 4004) and check with a multimeter, see diagram. R1 and R2 values aren't critical, set both the same to somewhere around 1K to 100K. Read the datasheet to check the battery voltage.

>> No.1383928

>>1383914
holy shit.
That was foreign to me.... explain that to me as if I were 6 please

>> No.1383929

>>1383885
I don't see anywhere on the diagrams where sound goes through the 4004. Best I can tell it goes through the 1408 and 4205 and then straight out.

Testing op amps is a can of worms you don't want to open. What you want to do is fuck with them so try to find out where the problem is. If you test the inputs and output it should affect the signal. How isn't easily predictable. But what changes will tell you where those pins on that chip lead to.

Of course this could all be done spending hours trying to decypher 30 year old in accurate photocopies. You should be able to find some pins that affect the vector line up problem in a few minutes by just poking around.

Start with the 4004. Its divided into 4 parts. The outputs are on each corner (pins 1,7,8,14), the pin next to each output is -in, and the one next to that is +in.

>> No.1383946

>>1383929
Ok so set my multimeter to ACV and start with the end pins of the 4004, correct?

>> No.1383952

>>1383928
Opamp with 100% negative feedback gives 1 gain, so input voltage = output voltage if it's working correctly. Resistors divide the battery voltage to get an input voltage the opamp can handle.

You'll need to read the data sheet to find the positive (non-inverting) input, negative (inverting) input, output and power pins for the opamp. Test all 4 of the individual opamps individually. This is very easy to set up on a breadboard. If it's too complicated for you I suggest reading:
http://www.ibiblio.org/kuphaldt/electricCircuits/
before you break something.

>> No.1383972

>>1383952
Some of that makes sense to me, other parts; not so much. I dont mind trying this but I run the risk of fucking it up farther. I wish there was a place I could take this to where someone could identify the problem. Ive checked google pretty thoroughly and I cant find anyone else who has this problem... id probably just bite the bullet and buy a replacement 4004 if I could find a cheap on that wouldn't take 3 months to arrive.
Ill look deeper inti testing the opamps later today im pretty tired.

>> No.1383978

>>1383972
http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/ic-mc34004p.html

>> No.1384234

>>1383978
That website is setup weird... I sent a buyers request, guess that means they give me a price quote, idk, ive never done that before

>> No.1384597

>>1384234

Lel, ive tried submitting 2 buyers request and they both came back denied, am I autistic or something?..

>> No.1385289

>>1384597
Alibaba is for bulk orders. Try Aliexpress. That's for small order retail business.

>> No.1386768

>>1385289
Im not having any luck with this chip, it's either too expensive, or the shipping takes a month. Shit finding a replacement for the 6522 was easy

>> No.1386810

>>1386768
Try a TL084. Cheap, available in DIP package, same pinout, very similar specs.

>> No.1386824

>>1386810
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-TL084-General-Purpose-JFET-Input-Quad-OP-AMP-Free-Shipping-/170865327783

$0.99 for 2. You can find others more expensive if you don't want to wait for shipping from Thailand.

>> No.1386927

>>1386810
>>1386824
Would this work?
http://m.ebay.com/itm/161166706759?nav=SEARCH&sbk=1

Don't need 10, but that shipping time...

>> No.1386932

>>1386927
Don't see why not.

>> No.1386941

>>1386932
So TL084 and TL084CN are the same things more the less? Just don't wanna buy something that's doomed.

>> No.1386961

>>1386941
C = commercial temperature range (as opposed to industrial/automotive/military)
N = DIP package

>> No.1387045
File: 196 KB, 264x269, 1385569041403.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1387045

>>1386961
OK, I'm buying the 10pack then.
Hope it works...

>> No.1387051

>>1387045
When your Vectrex is revived I think it should be /vr/s mascot. I've never cared more about a specific individual piece of retro (that didn't belong to me) as I do about your Vectrex.

It makes me go hug my own Vectrex and tell it how much I appreciate it.

>> No.1387057

>>1387051
my vectrex is on fucking life support.
Hoping the chip fixes my problem, or at the very least gives me the same performance to then see what else may be causing trouble. But ya know, really hoping for a fix more than anything

>> No.1387061

>>1387057
Well if you replace all the components and rebuild all the circuitry then it'll DEFINITELY work right? So it's an inevitability.

>> No.1387119

I feel bad buying mine for $50 cib and having it work flawlessly. seriously, I've been watching your threads for like, what feels like 2 months of you just trying to fix a vectrex.

>> No.1387163

>>1387061
Exactly, this guy gets it.
>>1387119
You got lucky, what else is there to say.

>> No.1387172
File: 226 KB, 834x906, 1355773749234.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1387172

>>1387163
don't worry. I'm still rooting for OP <3. I've been seeing his threads daily and I now check each day on his progress.

good luck op <3

>> No.1387860

Welp, order placed.
Now i play the waiting game... again.

>> No.1389310

>>1387860
I'll give you a bump.

>> No.1390902
File: 66 KB, 400x400, 1380185521966.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1390902

>>1389310
ETA, Monday.