Arcade thread

[Anonymous No.1340538]

>games released in the arcades are of a much higher quality, on average, than games released for the home console market.
http://insomnia.ac/commentary/arcade_culture/

Do you agree /vr/?

[Anonymous No.1340556]

Having grown up in the arcades, I'd say that stopped being the case once Dreamcast hit the scene.

An identical port of MvC2 to home consoles was the day I realized arcades were dead. It wasn't a good feeling, but I wasn't gonna fight it.

[Anonymous No.1340559]

>>1340538
define "quality"
define "home console market" with direct reference to which video game generation is being discussed.

[Anonymous No.1340584]

Arcades were always higher quality until polygons became a thing. Virtua Fighter 2 on the Saturn, for me, was when the line started to blur.

[Anonymous No.1340583]

You should have posted rest of the paragraph as well.
>Because the worst that could happen in the first case is that you'd end up with something like Jingi Storm or Mario Kart Arcade GP -- not exactly the most gripping and cutting-edge stuff out there, certainly, but still tightly focused and at least mildly enjoyable games, for a short while anyway. In the second case, though, you could very well get stuck with some lifeless movie tie-in, or some dull sports franchise, or some bloated 3D platform collect-a-thon, or, worse still, with one of the countless shovelware titles that are always being churned out for whichever console happens to be the most popular at the moment.
I would agree with that, but the rest of the essay or whatever is pretty awful because of his over-aggressive style.

[Anonymous No.1340586]

I'll agree that icycalm is a huge fucking faggot and you could have made this thread without giving his shitty website hits.

[Anonymous No.1340637]

>>1340538
Most home games were either ports or imitations of arcade games running on inferior hardware. It shouldn't come as a shock to anyone that the arcade games were better.
Also, arcade games have always had the option of a customized environment for each game, screen, seating, controls, feedback, motion, etc. You couldn't reproduce the experience of something as old as a sitdown afterburner with even the latest consoles unless you add a muti-thousand dollar cabinet

[Anonymous No.1340660]

>>1340538

Disagree. Without even going into deeper comparisons, there are many genres of games that simply aren't feasible in an arcade setting.

Beyond that, many arcade games are poorly designed and overly difficult rip-offs of the better arcade games. Just like in the console scene. The only difference is the bad console games stick around in people's memories because they are easier to access. Very few people collect PCB's.

Have a scroll through MAME sometime and play games in alphabetical order, starting anywhere you like. You soon figure out arcades always had their fair share of shit.

I'd put the PlayStation library up against the entire arcade library anyday.

[Anonymous No.1340682]

>>1340660
A random game picked from MAME is not representative of the quality of a random game from a real arcade. MAME aims to document everything, real arcades only kept games that made enough money.

[Anonymous No.1340725]

>>1340538
They were often bleeding edge hardware, but they were also often games with cheap, unfair mechanics designed to swallow quarters. Depends what you mean by quality.

[Anonymous No.1340874]

>>1340660
PSx library against arcade?? Psx's library has not aged well and 50% of its titles are 3d tech demos. Psx was the original shovelware system. Not to add alot of Psx's good games were lesser ports of arcade games. This is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard.

[Anonymous No.1340913]

>>1340584
Many arcade purists would disagree with you, since the Saturn port of VF2 has a few imperfections.

[Anonymous No.1340930]

>>1340538
I couldn't possibly agree more wholeheartedly.
That entire article hits the ball right out of the park.
Some crybabies get upset because of the aggressive tone, but that's mostly because it's their shit that's being described, and they think it doesn't stink.

[Anonymous No.1340934]

>>1340538
Always be skeptical when an article says "On Average"

Is it including shovelware and failed systems?

[Anonymous No.1340956]

>>1340559
Resolution, amount of colors, sound bitrate. You know what he meant, don't be a pedo.

[Anonymous No.1340959]

>>1340956
But that's not what he meant. He meant in terms of well-polished, balanced, good gameplay more than anything.

[Anonymous No.1340963]

>>1340959
Then why did you ask for a definition of quality when you knew then? Did you just want to be passive aggressive like a SJW tranny who asks "WUT DOES 'HE' MEAN IS HE TRANS?"

[Anonymous No.1340969]

>>1340963
>Then why did you ask for a definition of quality
I didn't.
I was simply correcting you because you were wrong. I never asked anything. Nice assumption though.

[Anonymous No.1341002]

An arcade owner will try to find which cabnits are not popular and replace them with new ones.

Consumers cannot be tricked by gimmicks or movie tie ins at the arcade. A single credit is all you need to know the game is shit.

In the console and PC section of gaming creating a bad game and than hyping it up is actually a very strong tactic for making money.

Icy calm pretty much hit the nail on the head with this article. Everyone one of his points are backed up by blatant truths such as the above on.

I'm sure 80% of posters here wont even read the article before commenting on it which is about as intilligent as judging a book by its cover.

[Anonymous No.1341007]

Oh, hello. Just posting arcade cabinets you will never get to use, ever.

[Anonymous No.1341027]

>>1341007
Hey, I'm the guy that posts the r360 around here!

[Anonymous No.1341030]

>>1341027
But, can you one-up my Namco Theater 6?

[Anonymous No.1341041]

>>1341002
shut up icy

[Anonymous No.1341125]

>games released in the arcades are of a much higher quality, on average, than games released for the home console market.

This is generally true. Due to the low entry barrier to arcade play, it's very easy to see if a game is fun or not before making a significant investment, and there are tons of shovelware titles for consoles attempting to live off impulse buys or hype. While theoretically your game must be good to get people to play, it's also possible just to make it addictive by using psychological tricks to keep people playing.

It's possible if arcades kept going that we could've seen more stuff like shooters and RPGs that used real quarters as an equivalent to gold (So that your character could buy better items if you put in more money). You would be encouraged to drop more money in to make your PC stronger, which would in turn allow you to beat your opponents more often, and that would start an arms race. Suddenly, a machine that's very cheap to play (It could only take a quarter as the entry fee) because a very expensive monstrosity that convinces multitudes of people all they need to do to beat their opponents is spend more money. There's all sorts of horror scenarios that could happen if arcades were still a moneymaker.

We all remember the times when we'd drop a few quarters and play forever, but those times were destined to fade away. Someone's going to be footing the bill for those machines, and if we're busy 1CCing everything, playing for an hour on a single quarter, there's no way an arcade can stay in business. Either consoles and computer games were going to come along and offer the same enjoyment in a cheaper package or arcades were going to evolve to pry money from customers in another way.

[Anonymous No.1341128]

>>1341125
>RPGs that used real quarters as an equivalent to gold
Double Dragon 3 tried that and it didn't exactly took the arcades by storm.

[Anonymous No.1341137]

>>1341128
It's just a prediction. A lot of the bad shit that plagues video games now could've easily been carried over to arcades, P2W seems like a great example. It's a massive attraction to casuals and a great way to get someone to sink a lot of cash in one game, the only issue with it is if they sink enough, they might play your machine indefinitely.

[Anonymous No.1341142]

>>1341137
>A lot of the bad shit that plagues video games now could've easily been carried over to arcades
And it is, actually.
I'll never forgive Konami for bringing hat-based microtransactions to Beatmania, and NesicaLIVE is absolutely disgusting.

Correlation may not be causation, but it's also worth mentioning that arcades are on a decline in Japan as well. I'm sure at least some of the blame can be assigned to home development.

[Anonymous No.1341167]

>>1341142
From a marketing standpoint, I think arcades eventually did themselves in by not being competitive with consoles in terms of value to the masses.

There's specific games, like Time Crisis and DDR that I would say can only really give your their full experience in an arcade (Yeah, I know there's console versions, but it's just not the same.). Games like those would've been absolutely vital to prolonging arcades' lifespans, and chances are if you see a machine out in the wild that's not a mutligame cabinet, it'll be something like those two that use peripherals you don't commonly have around the house.

I'd say the biggest flaw however would be that arcades never capitalized on their biggest attraction -- being in a place with heavy public traffic. More games like War, which featured "LAN" play in an arcade environment, would've been absolutely stellar. Once things that really connected patrons of an arcade together and formed a community between them started to come into existence, you'd have all sorts of regulars who'd come for the games and stay for the atmosphere. Arcades could've evolved into something more like a social club, the video game equivalent of a FLGS (You know, a Dungeons and Dragons/Warhammer shop where a bunch of neckbeards frequent to enjoy tabletop games and each others' company.).

[Anonymous No.1341169]

>>1341167
Crap, I deleted my line about comparing Nintendo exclusives that sell their consoles and arcades not having the same thing. It sounded good, and now I can't remember how I phrased it.

[Anonymous No.1341190]

>>1341167
One thing you forget is that the LAN thing really did catch on in Japanese arcades. Hell, the big game centers pretty much thrive exclusively on LAN games like Border Break and Gundam: Bonds of the Battlefield.

[Anonymous No.1341212]

>>1340874

Most arcade titles have not "aged well" (whatever the fuck that means). And ton of them are extremely derivative of other, better games.

If you took the number of arcade games ever produced, and then the percentage of them that are considered good enough to play longer than 3 minutes you'd have a much lower percentage than the PlayStation library.

But that's taking into account the arcade library is absolutely huge. Many times larger than the PlayStation.

[Anonymous No.1341216]

>>1341190
That's an incredible shame it didn't make as big of splash in the west. Speaking from the view of someone who used to frequent places like Games Workshop for matches with the local players there, I would've probably kept going to a place that had fresh video games periodically (And didn't charge a $500 dollar entry fee to build your first army).

[Anonymous No.1341223]

I think icy calm may be the only true video game credit.

Years after he writes something people still talk about it and it still invokes discussion.

All this and he runs ZERO advertisements and actively avoids promoting himself (you cant even read half his content without a $20 a year membership, hes never done any publicity stunts)

Meanwhile crap critics have their words circulated in every issue of game informer which is practically shoved down everyone throats and no one even remember what they say a week later.

[Anonymous No.1341623]

Unrelated to any discussion in this thread, but I've been thinking - if Blizzard teamed up with someone to do a 4 player arcade version of Diablo 3 using the console version (which plays almost exactly like Gauntlet Legends/Dark Legacy) and sold it to someplace like Dave & Busters I feel like it would be hugely popular. Everyone I know, "casual" and "hardcore" gamers alike, love Gauntlet.

[Anonymous No.1341630]

>>1341623
You ever seen Quest of D? Not /vr/ (2004) but it was in the same vein as what you just described, arcade-based networked hack and slash RPG. Shit was cash yo, it's a shame that US arcade infrastructure is so awful that it couldn't support releases of games like that.

[Anonymous No.1341634]

Arcades are already dead,

[Anonymous No.1341657]

>>1341630
That looks awesome, based AM2. With cellular internet finally moving into the 21st century in the US it's definitely more feasible than before; if only the most popular arcades weren't full of coin pushers and ticket games

[Anonymous No.1341882]

>Games released in the arcades are of a much higher quality, on average, than games released for the home console market

Statement definitely applied to 3D sports games. Blitz was 3x better, as far as gameplay, then any other 3D sports game on the market between 96 and 99.

[Anonymous No.1341896]

>>1341882
>SPORT STATION
lol

[Anonymous No.1341905]

These are two true statements:
>The average quality of arcade games as a whole from any particular year is higher than that of console games from the same year
>The average multi-platform game with an arcade version is best in its arcade version

This is a false statement
>The best games, in all genres, are arcade games.

Console games can have depth that arcade games don't have. That was the advantage that good retro console games leveraged to compensate for weaker graphics and sound. In the rare cases where the retro console version of an arcade game ends up being the definitive version (e.g. Gauntlet IV) this ends up being the reason.

[Anonymous No.1341935]

>>1341905
Yeah, credit-based games dictates a different overall design than home video games.

[Anonymous No.1341964]

>games released in the arcades are of a much higher quality, on average, than games released for the home console market.

Yeah, I agree with this.

Look at Golden Axe.
First one was ported from arcade to Sega Genesis, good game good graphics good music.

Golden Axe 2 comes along, Sega Genesis only. Barely any difference.

I think if Golden Axe 2 was an arcade release it would have basically been Golden Axe 3 quality ( with it's completely new art & gimmicks) years beforehand without a filler game between.

I think that statement is mostly true.

[Anonymous No.1341969]

>>1341905

>The best games, in all genres, are arcade games.

There are no "best games in all genres" (what is better, Civ or Crysis? lol). But like the best RTSs are on the PC, the best action games were in the arcade. The whole arcade thing was "give me a quarter and I'll give you a HEART POUNDING GUT WRENCHING EUPHORIA INDUCING TESTOSTERONE TRIP (of fifteen minutes or less)".

[Anonymous No.1342223]

>>1341964
>I think if Golden Axe 2 was an arcade release it would have basically been Golden Axe 3 quality ( with it's completely new art & gimmicks) years beforehand without a filler game between.
But Golden Axe did have an arcade sequel. You never heard of Revenge of Death Adder? It's arguably the best game in the series.

Also, arcades aren't exactly immune to "mission pack sequels" either. Just look at stuff like Turbo Out Run and Double Dragon II: The Revenge, which were literally upgraded versions of the originals.

[Anonymous No.1342372]

Keep in mind that mr. Icycalm's favorite games are nearly all on console.

He even calls console games "serious", in opposition to arcade games, nowadays at least.

[Anonymous No.1342389]

>>1342372
I'm guessing his preference for arcade games was simply a phase when he was still living in Japan surrounded by all sorts of game centers. Now that's he living in the west again, he went back to playing mostly console and computer games. To his credit, he does have a few arcade games on his Top Thirty.

[Anonymous No.1342396]

I have one very serious question for the arcade-heads here:

How in the actual fuck do you beat arcade games on default difficulty or higher on 1cc? I just can't fucking do it in ANY game. I understand that the answer is completely different per-game, but I've never even come close, and a lot of games only show you the real end screen if you 1cc them. I see people fucking destroying Knights of the Round and Shadow Over Mystara on the highest difficulty on YouTube, and people on here are like "You have a cleric in your party for healing? You died in Metal Slug? Git gud fggt." I mop the floor with all my friends in fighters and high scores, but I just can't even come close to 1cc'ing an arcade game.

[Anonymous No.1342398]

>>1340956
>>1340959
>>1340963
>>1340969

I, >>1340559, asked because I didn't want to click on the link.

I guess it is some fagging spouting opinions with poor logic, and didn't want to read it/give him the hits.

[Anonymous No.1342402]

>>1342389

I'd say there's a deeper reason than the fact that he plays more console games.

And for the to his credit thing, other than it being a nice pun, I would wholeheartedly agree that console games are more serious. In his thread about THIS thread, he flat out says MGS is more fun than any a arcade game ever.

[Anonymous No.1342407]

>>1342396
Practice the difficult parts with save states.

[Anonymous No.1342415]

>Because the worst that could happen in the first case is that you'd end up with something like Jingi Storm or Mario Kart Arcade GP -- not exactly the most gripping and cutting-edge stuff out there, certainly, but still tightly focused and at least mildly enjoyable games, for a short while anyway.

I wish this was the case. Australian Arcades are all full of garbage. So much disappointment.

[Anonymous No.1342416]

>I don't have any relevant statistics to back it up, and though I could certainly do some research and come up with some myself, frankly, I have better things to do with my time.

Stopped reading right there. If you don't care, why should I? Never heard of icycalm before just now, by the way. I was ignoring all the negative opinions in this thread when I clicked the link.

[Anonymous No.1342423]

Ive mentioned it before but I notice that any bar I walk in to, theres a Raw Thrills machine either Big Buck Hunter or Safari.. every single fucking bar. Golden Tee as well. I wonder how much money they make..

Seeing as theres obviously a big enough market for these shooting games (theyre everywhere) I don't see why Sega, the maker of the best shooting games ever, doesnt make a multicab with several gun games in one, and the owner/operator can determine which licenses to buy and switch them out if business declines/gets stale.

If BBH/GT can make it into so many places then Sega could have no problem doing the same, yet for some reason they choose not to. Who the fuck iare Raw Thrills anyway, why are Sega letting an indie company take over so much business? Though I'll commend them on their Terminator LG game, it is fantastic..

[Anonymous No.1342434]

>>1342402
>In his thread about THIS thread, he flat out says MGS is more fun than any a arcade game ever.
Can't argue with him there. Even the most mediocre Metal Gear Solid game (Portable Ops for those curious) is quite addicting.

Has he played MGS3 or 4 yet?

[Anonymous No.1342431]

>>1342402
sounds like he's become a casual.
mgs is great but I wouldnt weigh it against the entire library of arcade games

[Anonymous No.1342437]

>>1342396
>>1342407
using save states is cheating

you need to become very familiar with the mechanics of the games, how enemies react, the timing on all your actions, and fully understand the hit boxes

you need to be a proper state of mind, fully focused.

every time you get hit or half to use up a bomb/resource re-evulate yourself and think about how you could have done it differently

use the early levels to snowball. Complete them without using any resources (bombs etc), find all the power ups, and get a high score so you get 1ups

[Anonymous No.1342445]

>>1342431
Fuck off. MGS is one of the greatest videogame franchises of all time. I hope you're not one of those aspies who think S-ranking battles in Meta Gear Rising is an achievement.

[Anonymous No.1342454]

>>1342437
yeah, save state-ing and continuing should be used with caution when training. I think these techniques will hinder your progress in the long run.

[Anonymous No.1342468]

>>1342437
Using save states for training purposes is not cheating. Obviously you need to do a legit no save-state run if you're going to claim a high score or 1CC. The save states just stop you wasting time replaying the easy parts.

[Anonymous No.1342476]

>>1342445
did I ever say anything about ranking?

its difficult to even compare metal gear solid to an arcade game. An arcade game is a mental battle filled with split second descions between you and an absolute monster.

Metal gear solid is an interactive movie, an incredibly interactive active.

You talk alot like icy calm so I assume you read his stuff. Didn't he once say (talking about top ten x lists) that when you place a certain game at the top of the list you are also placing that genre at the top of the list? The reason you can't make a very deep comparasion between metal gear solid and an arcade game like outzone is because they are different genres and operate on different principles. Who are you to say that an entire genre is better than another?

[Anonymous No.1342482]

>>1342468
learning how to play is a process of playing the arcade game so it is cheating.

Thats like saying that looking up the solution to a puzzle in zelda isnt cheating because it just makes solving the puzzle easier and saves time

[Anonymous No.1342484]

>>1342476

Fuck you're stupid

You can and should rank genres against each other

Lol different principles get your faggotry out of here

[Anonymous No.1342485]

>>1342482
>looking up the solution to a puzzle in zelda isnt cheating
It's obviously not cheating. Nothing you do outside the game is cheating.

[Anonymous No.1342517]

>>1340538
He claims this because shmups are his favorite genre, or at least one of, so I can definitely understand why he feels that way. As for me, I love the genre too but I gotta disagree.

>>1342437
>>1342468
Personally I consider save states fair game if you're playing for score or a higher difficulty, but to just purely beat the game at all I'd say avoid it if you can.

[Anonymous No.1342540]

>>1340538
This guy seems to have a serious hardon for coin-op games. It's a format like any other, with its own constraints and features.

[Anonymous No.1342542]

>>1342389
>No srw
>mainstream shmups
>western crap

What a fucking normalfag

[Anonymous No.1342547]

>>1341142
>NesicaLIVE is absolutely disgusting.
That's the Taito download platform, right? Have you used it in a real arcade? It seems like a neat concept, but I can see it being rife with abuse.

[Anonymous No.1342567]

>>1342517
>save states fair game if you're playing for score
What's the point in playing for score if you can't compare your score with anybody else?

[Anonymous No.1342568]

>>1342437
>>1342454
the guy with the highest dodonpachi score in the West/EU uses save states. they are perfect for practicing particularly difficult parts in rapid succession

[Anonymous No.1342670]

>>1341212
I'd actually be willing to bet that PS had more bad games, even with arcade games bigger library. PS is the first system that companies really shoveled bad games on en masse, due to the low price of the media. Couple that with fuck tons of experimental 3d poly games. The PS library is rife with shit. Arcades on the other hand had way more testing and decisions factored into release, due to the high cost of the cabinets. A failed arcade machine was a serious loss to a company, a PS game could be rebranded a "budget" title and sold for $10 at a profit.

[Anonymous No.1342690]

>>1342485
What genres a person prefers is subjective and every person will have a different order.

If Shmups is your favorite genre you're going to spend a lot of time in MAME

If SEPGs are your favorite genre, you're probably not.

[Anonymous No.1342692]

>>1342485
What genres a person prefers is subjective and every person will have a different order.

If Shmups are your favorite genre you're going to spend a lot of time in MAME

If SRPGs are your favorite genre, you're probably not.

[Anonymous No.1342715]

I'm looking for a front end to use on a cabinet. What I would like is for a game to auto-load and a ghost player 2 to be able to drop in from the internet if there is no actual player 2

But I bet that's not possible.

[Anonymous No.1342830]

>>1342547
It's not a question of me using it, it's a question of it being the arcade version of Steam, a locked platform meant to bind and shackle arcade owners, and one that ruins the posterity of arcade machines in the future.

[Anonymous No.1342919]

>>1340538

I don't think they're necessarily of higher overall quality.

The thing is though, they appeal to my kind of "I want to play an intense game for a short time and then go do something else the instant I get bored" mentality a lot better than console games, which often require you to jump through several hoops during a playthrough (or worse yet, require that you unlock content by more than one playthrough) to get the full experience, 100% completion my ass.

In fact, I'd say the whole 'unlockables' thing is retarded - you should have everything unlocked at the beginning, just not enabled, and how you use them is entirely up to you. Someone who plays with a sense of dignity is obviously not going to do that first thing, and nobody needs to worry about the guy who doesn't, unless you have this terrible thing called multiplayer (which unfortunately you do have nowadays and must be taken as granted).

[Anonymous No.1342975]

>>1341030

I've played this. What game went in the other one posted, the r360? Looks like G-lock or something maybe? Not quite the same but I've been inside of a Galaxy Force 2 cab.

[Anonymous No.1343029]

>>1342476
>Metal gear solid is an interactive movie, an incredibly interactive active.
MGS is a fucking stealth action game that just happens to have lots of cutscenes, not an "interactive movie" (whatever the fuck that is). This is proof that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

[Anonymous No.1343034]

>>1342830
It's almost like you've never heard of battery-backed decryption tables.

[Anonymous No.1343051]

>>1342402
>In his thread about THIS thread
Do you have an account to his forum by any chance?

[Anonymous No.1343072]

>>1343034
The fact that something else is also bad doesn't preclude NesicaLIVE being unacceptably bad.

[Anonymous No.1343104]

>>1342567
Sorry, I meant practicing for score runs.

[Anonymous No.1343107]

>>1342567
>>1343104
Unless you meant because you're playing at home, in which case there are plenty of online shmup forums/sites that allow people to compare and discuss scores.

[Anonymous No.1343260]

>>1342484
ok hot shot
why dont you tell us what the best genres are and the worst one
I'd love to here your reasoning.

[Anonymous No.1343265]

>>1342372
how on earth are console games more serious than arcade games.

console games are what I play when I'm tired and want to just mess around

arcade games are what I play when I'm focused and want something intense