Is OoT overrated?

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Anonymous Mon Jan 13 16:31:23 2014 No.1336139 [DELETED]

Is OoT overrated?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 13 16:33:23 2014 No.1336143 >>1336139 See: >>1320989

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 13 16:42:24 2014 No.1336163 >>1336139 It was during that period after release where all the kids and teenagers proclaimed it as perfect and GOTYAY. It's actually shockingly underrated here, considering it still is a solid game whichever way you look at it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 13 16:45:23 2014 No.1336167 >>1336163 I think its just people pissed off at having to put up with the GOTYAY kids, they know its not bad they are just lashing out after years of hearing about that shit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 13 18:37:18 2014 No.1336407 >>1336163 Actually, it's the fact that it's not a solid game at all and is probably one of the most bland adventure games ever made is the reason why it's "underrated" here.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 13 18:39:18 2014 No.1336415 >>1336143 If you throw away the fact it changed our lives, saves people and made our life longer I'd say medicine is overrated.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 13 18:41:18 2014 No.1336419 File: 32 KB, 607x426, fo_splash.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1336407

Anonymous Mon Jan 13 18:44:18 2014 No.1336423
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SMB3 : growing up in 80's suburbia : : OoT : growing up in 90's suburbia

They blew minds, although I consider SMB3 to be vastly overrated in comparison to OoT, and I grew up playing the superior Super Mario All-stars version.

Anonymous Mon Jan 13 19:04:36 2014 No.1336478

>>1336139
I would say yes. It's not the greatest game of all time and it's not a realistic contender, but it's a 9/10 at least. It's just one step away from being a contender, but still had some glaring flaws (for a high quality game, we're not comparing it to Big Rigs here) like the combat being questionable at times, among other things.

I think it's overrated because it's the kind of thing, like most Zelda games, to produce strong memories and also takes place in such a deep fantasy setting (forests, mystical puzzles, magical gems and things to collect with fairies, you get the picture) that it incites those emotions even more strongly for some people. What I'm saying is I think people look back on it and see it even more positively than they did at the actual time they played it, much like how everyone views their childhood as a perfect time of freedom and relaxation when for many people it was actually just a time of restriction, forced schedules and, in many cases, a desire for escape because there was literally nothing better to do like there is for an older person with more options.

I won't deny that as it is typically a starter game for some people or one they play early on, that may have amplified it a little because they had no palette with which to compare it to, but I think that effect is much smaller than people realize.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 13 19:08:35 2014 No.1336492 >>1336423 >gif Damn... she's really good. Too bad she has no thighs like the real one, otherwise it'd be a 10/10.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 13 19:21:36 2014 No.1336527 >>1336139 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o908SWJ8ulc Here's the answer to this question. No more debate is needed. Grab a sandwich and have a watch, anons.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 13 19:24:06 2014 No.1336536 "Underrated" and "overrated" are such stupid words. Either you like it or you don't, stop having such ridiculously convoluted meta-opinions.

>>	Smile Mon Jan 13 19:30:36 2014 No.1336540 of course, its the beatles of video games, meaning there are thousands of games that are better also the worst 3d zelda by far, massive game world but every inch is forgettable

Anonymous Mon Jan 13 19:41:08 2014 No.1336568

>>1336536

b-but how will i be a contrarian who is unable to separate the crazy fanbase's opinion from what is objectively true about this game and what it did for video games. I am on a non-stop, constant search for something undderated so i can look cerebral and deep for finding a good game no one remembers, also i argue over what the first game ever made was, IT WASN'T PONG OR TENNIS FOR TWO!!! ACTUALLY, ACTUALLY, ACTUALLY, I AM SMARTER THEN YOU!!!! MY OPINION IS MORE COMPLEX THEN YOURS!

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 13 19:42:08 2014 No.1336571 File: 275 KB, 592x448, 1370116489791.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] yep

Anonymous Mon Jan 13 19:44:38 2014 No.1336576

>>1336139

Overrated...by whom? You have to define this shit if you want to have a meaningful discussion. Critics? People on 4chan?

I can tell you that, on 4chan, it's one of the most resented games. It gets called overrated so much that it feels like more people consider it overrated than not.

I think it's hilarious in "unpopular opinion" threads when people say that OoT sucks, or is overrated. It's one of the most popular opinions you can have.

Anonymous Mon Jan 13 19:47:08 2014 No.1336580

>>1336576
This.

I mean I guess over time its been shoved done people's throats how good it is, that any faults they can find have been magnified. To this day I just love the music, the environments, and simplistic gameplay. So much so that I can ignore the "muh empty field" and "bland" arguments.

Anonymous Mon Jan 13 19:50:38 2014 No.1336585

It's FF7-tier, where its considered overrated so often that its no longer overrated. If you were to ask "what is the most overrated game of all time" i bet most p eople would say OoT. Kind of ironic: the most popular answer is proven wrong by its popularity

Anonymous Mon Jan 13 19:58:09 2014 No.1336603

>>1336585
But that's the thing, you're accounting for the local gaming culture of 4chan. To the majority of the internet, FF7 and OoT actually ARE some of the greatest of all time. There's definitely people fighting back against that, but they're still in the minority.

Take a look at the top channels, the top streamers, the top sites, the top anything... it's all very generic stuff that a vocal minority claims to hate, yet everyone else loves.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 13 20:02:08 2014 No.1336610 >>1336603 Where on the internet? on virtually every gaming board ive been on most people think oot is overrated

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 13 20:11:40 2014 No.1336629 >>1336610 I dunno, probably most mainstream spots like GameFAQs.

Anonymous Mon Jan 13 21:06:40 2014 No.1336724

>>1336139
Kind of? It's hard for me to say. I was born in 92 so I grew up with the game and loved the shit out of it at the time. I don't really care for the series much anymore though because they're so samey in a general sense. I almost feel like them sticking to that formula has made OoT retroactively less interesting.

I definitely would disagree with the people who say it's the best game of all time. I want to say it's good, but what with nostalgia goggles and the issue I described I'm not sure if I can really give anything resembling an objective opinion on the matter.

Anonymous Mon Jan 13 21:10:58 2014 No.1336730

I'm tired of the term nostalgia goggles. Only a group of people who don't really like games that much could come up with the term. Why does it seem like its only used for a select few games, like OoT or Mario 64? What pisses me off even more is when people use nostalgia goggles for liking Zelda 1. It's just horseshit. And its ironic that everyone on /v/ totally goes gaga on Wind Waker. I bet that most of them are nostalgic for that game, it DID come out eleven years ago.

We can feel nostalgic about things and still think they suck. We can feel nostalgic about things and still think they are great.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 13 21:16:28 2014 No.1336736 >>1336730 >Wind Waker came out 11 years ago MAN I'm getting old. Anyway, the main problem is what I mentioned in the second paragraph of >>1336478

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 13 21:18:59 2014 No.1336738 I don't think so. Oot is the only 3d zelda I can play over and over without getting sick of it.

Anonymous Mon Jan 13 21:27:28 2014 No.1336751
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To take a quote by Jim Cornette about Triple H, paraphrase it and apply it to games: OOT is a 9/10 that is pushed like a 11/10 and is therefore seen like a 7/10.

Of course, time makes fools of us all, and now the people that see it more like a 7 and dislike the ones that see it like an 11 could very well be the majority, and the whole thing turns into a clusterfuck when trying to analyze this "overrated" question.

So no, OOT is not overrated. It's also not underrated. It's not even rated correctly. It exists in a weird state where it's impossible to "rate" it because of how disparate the opinions on it are.

Of course, one could argue that this could be applied to any game, but there are a few things that one can look at and actually use to determine whether a game is "underrated" or not - sales numbers being the big one. If a game sells terribly due to lack of marketing, bad release dates or whatnot, but is actually an excellent game, then calling it "underrated" would not go amiss.

However, then we reach the "over-underrated"/"under-overrated" area, where we go back into clusterfuck territory - like >>1336585 basically said, a game that is so often considered to be on one side that it technically should be on the other side. Gimmick! is a big one for the "over-underrated" category, as this game comes up pretty much every time the topic of underrated games comes up, and the fact that it comes up all the time should technically disqualify it from belonging there in the first place.

In short, it's a fucking mess, and I'd rather just punch you in the face and leave than get into a real argument if you asked me this question to my face - the assault charges would be less of a headache than the discussion. Not trying to be "hardcore" here, it's just that an "overrated/underrated" discussion is so terrible that even legal troubles are quite likely to be easier to stomach.

Anonymous Mon Jan 13 21:30:58 2014 No.1336753

People say it's some amazing genre definining masterpiece

But all I see is a block pushing simulator with too slow of a text speed, a pointless flute playing gimmick, ridiculously simple combat, and the main contribution to Zelda stagnation for the next 15+ years

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 13 21:48:01 2014 No.1336774 File: 201 KB, 454x471, 1352390932645.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1336751 Except Haitch isn't a 9/10. He is the epitome of B+.

Anonymous Mon Jan 13 21:49:01 2014 No.1336775

>Is OoT overrated?
It all depends on who you're talking to
>Ocarina of Time is LITERALLY the best game that has EVER been made and EVER will be made
Then yes
>Ocarina of Time was the 1997 GOTY and arguably one of the very best RPGs of the decade
Then no

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 13 21:51:01 2014 No.1336779 File: 726 KB, 446x251, 1341588608690.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1336775 >RPG

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 13 21:53:32 2014 No.1336782 >>1336779 >contemporary definitions Sorry I'm being too colloquial

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 13 21:59:01 2014 No.1336793 >>1336782 >contemporary

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 13 22:00:01 2014 No.1336797 >>1336793 >greentexting

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 13 22:01:31 2014 No.1336798 Not in the least. It's simply under-appreciated by people without a sense of what good game design is.

Anonymous Mon Jan 13 22:06:01 2014 No.1336816

>>1336753
>ridiculously simple combat
This is how you can tell when someone is incapable of putting things into context. This is why we need video game appreciation courses just like we have for all the other arts, so uneducated "opinions" like this can stop polluting discourse on games that are older than the people trying to talk about them.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 13 22:07:31 2014 No.1336818 >>1336797 who are you quoting?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 13 22:10:02 2014 No.1336826 >>1336536 Quality can be objectified, stop being stupid.

Anonymous Mon Jan 13 22:11:02 2014 No.1336832

Genre nazis and people who claim anyone that disagrees with them is a child and simply can't understand are the worst.

Instead of being passive aggressive about it, make an argument for your point. Seriously, why even bother saying anything if your entire argument is
>fuck you your opinion is wrong but I won't say why

Anonymous Mon Jan 13 22:14:02 2014 No.1336840

>>1336832
I'm guessing you're passive-aggressively addressing my post about the person who called the combat "ridiculously simple". It's a fact that it's not, anyone with a brain who is able to look at what else was around in 98 and leading up to 98 knows that it's not, and it brought combat in the entire genre to a new standard BECAUSE of its depth compared to other games of the time.

I'm not going to sit here and baby you because you are incapable of thinking past "DURRR, COMBAT NUT AS DEP AS THE PS3 GAME I PLAYED YESTERDAY, ITZ 2 SIMPLE"

Anonymous Mon Jan 13 22:20:02 2014 No.1336851

>>1336816

Sorry but just because a game is old doesn't mean I can excuse its flaws. A game like Super Mario Bros. still plays totally fine today, its controls are air-tight. So if OoT has shitty combat I won't give it a pass, sorry. Hell, Mario 64 has better controls than almost all platformers that came after.

If you REALLY appreciated videogames of the past, you would acknowledge that games aren't worse just because they are older, and some older games have mechanics that are just as fresh.

The truth is that OoT is just a poorly designed game. It was in 1998 and it remains so.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 13 22:22:32 2014 No.1336853 >>1336826 No it can't. There is no objective way to tell if a game is good or not. It's all contested ground.

Anonymous Mon Jan 13 22:25:32 2014 No.1336856

OoT is one of my favorite games, for two main reasons: the controls, and the world.

Most people seem to disagree, but I fucking love how this game controls. Controlling Link just feels so compelling for some reason. He is a rather agile swordsman while still feeling like a "normal person". He can backflip, sidehop, roll, jumpslash. It makes it feel very atmospheric, as if I can interact with the world in any way I want.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 13 22:26:32 2014 No.1336859 >>1336851 SMB is a bad platformer. The controls are stiff, the levels are repetetive, and the difficulty is non-existent.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 13 22:26:32 2014 No.1336860 >>1336853 Then all reviews would be meaningless. Critics would have wildly conflicting opinions. You're an idiot.

Anonymous Mon Jan 13 22:26:32 2014 No.1336861

>>1336851
>flaws
>shitty combat
>poorly designed game
You are so far gone it's not even worth it to argue. We both know nothing's going to change your opinion. You are wrong, but we both know you're never going to admit it, and if you're proclaiming blatant lies like that you're probably not even aware of why you're wrong.

The way you have access to horizontal and vertical slices, stabs, quick spins, jump attacks, backflips, side-hops, rolls, etc. using only two face buttons and the stick was fucking revolutionary, and the Z-Targeting mechanic still hasn't aged a day and always gives you the perfect camera angle in combat, and ensures you aren't hit by anything off-screen. The combat is factually well-designed, and your "opinion" is nothing more than perpetuating a falsehood because you want to see "flaws" that aren't there.

It's funny you mention SM64 too, since SM64's acrobatics are equally as impressive as OoT's swordplay and combat actions.

Anonymous Mon Jan 13 22:28:03 2014 No.1336867

oot was amazing for its time

smb3 was amazing for its time

I only know of one game that was amazing for it's time, and is still the best example of it's particular genre, and that is Doom 1

others get old, and then 25 year olds come to 4chan and say "I played (old game) yesterday, and it was shit, why did anyone like this, OVERRATED"

Anonymous Mon Jan 13 22:31:32 2014 No.1336869

>>1336840
I was very specifically addressing your post as well as the other one right above you with the Reggie gif. You just said it and I just responded.

>It's a fact that it's not
That's an opinion.

>anyone with a brain who is able to look at what else was around in 98 and leading up to 98 knows that it's not
That's an opinion.

>and it brought combat in the entire genre to a new standard BECAUSE of its depth compared to other games of the time.
Also an opinion.

You shouldn't be talking to me personally. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you. I'm just saying you can't just say your opinions are objectively right to shut down all opposing sides and immediately proclaim if they don't agree with you, they're just retarded and could never possibly understand the intricacies of video games. If it's so straightforward, why don't you point out what, specifically, it improved upon compared to previous games?

Anonymous Mon Jan 13 22:32:02 2014 No.1336872

>>1336860

Being a critic isn't about being "objective" you fucking dumbass. That is understood in all other art forms like film, literature, painting...Critics in those areas actually appreciate the idea of individual response.

The worst thing about videogame reviewing is that there always has to be a consensus. Why? If you seriously think a review is meaningless because it's not "objective", then I just don't know what to say. What the fuck are you even reading someone's thoughts for if they're just laying out the facts? Because you want your opinion of the game to be validated?

It would be a GOOD thing if critics had wildly conflicting opinions.

Anonymous Mon Jan 13 22:32:32 2014 No.1336871

>>1336840
>>1336869
>I'm not going to sit here and baby you because you are incapable of thinking past "DURRR, COMBAT NUT AS DEP AS THE PS3 GAME I PLAYED YESTERDAY, ITZ 2 SIMPLE"
This is what I meant, though. "I know I'm right but I'm not going to tell you why because it's so simple and if you can't understand or agree with me then you'll just never understand." You're completely shutting down all opposing opinions before even hearing them because you've decided you're definitely right and it's not open to discussion. And if it IS open to discussion and IS so straightforward, why don't you just say why it is?

And once again, you bring up newer generation stuff like that's the only reason anyone could EVER disagree with you. Holy fuck. Just talk to people for a minute. Do you actually want to talk to people or do you just want to talk?

I agree with it being a solid game, so please, don't turn this into an us vs them thing. Just explain what you're saying instead of expecting everyone to just agree all of the time without challenging it. This isn't a war. The entire point of being here is to see opposing thoughts that go against everything you believe.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 13 22:34:34 2014 No.1336875 >>1336872 ...did you literally ignore everything other than me saying it's an opinion?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 13 22:35:04 2014 No.1336879 >>1336875 What the fuck are you talking about? Your post was a sentence long.

Anonymous Mon Jan 13 22:36:04 2014 No.1336880

>>1336872
There are objective indicators of quality, and standards with which to judge the quality of a game which are accepted by all critics. Failing to recognize when a game meets the commonly accepted standards that qualify as good game design is the fault of the uneducated and ignorant. Recognizing its merits and what the game did and disliking it is an opinion, not saying the game didn't have a quality it clearly has because you're too dense to recognize it.

See, "ridiculously simple combat".

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 13 22:39:34 2014 No.1336885 >>1336879 Sorry, I thought you were responding to me ( >>1336869 ) but you were responding to someone else. My bad.

Anonymous Mon Jan 13 22:40:04 2014 No.1336886

>>1336880

You are a fucking idiot. What is considered "objective" is almost always just the dominant party's subjectivity. Who decides these "objective indicators of quality"? Again, it's all contested ground. "Accepted by all critics?" Not true.

Why the fuck should we care if a game meets the "commonly accepted standards?" It's like you are judging games as a product and not as art or something to be appreciated.

Protip: when it comes to judging art, emotion isn't the enemy, emotion clarifies. Video game reviewing is fucking dismal because they are afraid of taking any kind of stance and want to be as "objective" and conforming as possible. They don't want any politics in their games.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 13 22:41:04 2014 No.1336889 >>1336886 It's very clear you have never taken an art, film, literature, theater, etc. appreciation course in your entire life. Please stop posting any time.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 13 22:45:04 2014 No.1336895 File: 1.88 MB, 300x225, 1365392373408.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1336886

Anonymous Mon Jan 13 22:45:04 2014 No.1336898

>EVERYTHING IN THE WORLD THAT ANYONE HAS EVER SAID ABOUT ANYTHING IS AN OPINION
>EVERYTHING IN THE WORLD IS SUBJECTIVE
>THEREFORE MY UNEDUCATED OPINION ON SOMETHING THAT I PULLED OUT OF MY ASS IS MORE VALID THAN THAT OF SOMEONE WITH A VASTLY HIGHER UNDERSTANDING OF SAID THING
Literally every teenager's scapegoat in internet arguments ever.

This is why I left /v/.

Anonymous Mon Jan 13 22:45:34 2014 No.1336896

>>1336889

It's actually clear YOU haven't. The #1 thing about art appreciation is that you approach with your own individual response. If you just accept everything the "majority" thinks or what is the "consensus", how could you possible appreciate art in any meaningful way?? You sound like a smarmy dumbshit who has no idea what he's talking about. Opinion often forms into a "consensus" because the dominant party wants to flaunt their agendas. Accepting your own individual response is the first step to taking art seriously.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 13 22:46:34 2014 No.1336905 >>1336889 >continues with assumptions >continues telling everyone else to stop talking if they disagree instead of presenting an argument Meh, I give up.

Anonymous Mon Jan 13 22:48:04 2014 No.1336916

>>1336898

Yes, everything they've said about art in terms of quality is an opinion. No, not everything in the world is subjective, just when it comes to saying how good a piece of art is.

And if you accept something as fact just because someone more educated than you says it, you are an idiot. Again, that is precisely how the dominant party gets people like you to buy into their beliefs and convince you they are being "objective".

And you could easily argue that a bigger scapegoat argument is just to pull up review scores and say "this is better because critics say so"

Anonymous Mon Jan 13 22:49:34 2014 No.1336918

>>1336896
Like I said, stop posting any time. There is a huge amount of objective indicators with which to analyze art that can lead to a deeper understanding and appreciation. Read a book about it sometime, I'm not going to write one just for you in my post. The emotional response is just one aspect of a person's reading of a work, and there are factors that the artist uses to achieve that effect in the audience that are done deliberately and are calculated. Just like game design.

Anonymous Mon Jan 13 22:55:34 2014 No.1336938
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>>1336916
Let's try it this way.

Your insinuation that the combat is "ridiculously simple" is equal to someone who doesn't understand Cubism looking at pic related and saying "this painting sucks, the painter can't even paint a human body right". Both are ignorant "opinions" driven by a complete lack of understanding and failure to put things into context.

Anonymous Mon Jan 13 23:06:35 2014 No.1336976

>>1336938
Let me ask you, how is that opinion "wrong"? It might not be a popular opinion, but perhaps a person believes ALL cubism is a bit of a silly artistic practice because it's not an accurate representation of life. How is a person who only prefers realism in any way "wrong"? Just because your college professor or a book someone wrote says so? Because a bunch of art people disagree with them? Because they might change their minds if they're exposed the different things, but might not?

And yes, you can replace "cubism" with video game genres or with anything based on perception, really.

So, guess mainstream pop music is the most valid music? Or on the hipster side of things, pretentious, wanky IDM due to its unnecessary technicality?

The whole concept of tastes having objective quality is nothing short of absurd. Popularity of an idea within a group doesn't make it the most valid.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 13 23:07:05 2014 No.1336979 >>1336976 By the way, before someone jumps for the easy response, I realize people learn proportions and other forms of regular art before cubism. Please don't try to ride on technicalities like this in response while ignoring the point.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 13 23:11:05 2014 No.1336986 >>1336938 That painting does suck. Its the ugly product of a diseased mind.

Anonymous Mon Jan 13 23:14:05 2014 No.1336992

>>1336976
Good job completely missing the point.

Preferring realism and finding cubism a silly artistic practice because it's not an accurate representation of life (it can be, but not in the way you're thinking I'm guessing) is a valid opinion. Saying that art of that type is shit and is "flawed" because it isn't realism is ignorance.

The point is someone who only likes realism and sweeps Cubism under the rug because he doesn't like it has no business thinking their opinions on aspects of Cubism are in any way valid, let alone as valid to someone with a deep understanding of Cubism.

It all boils down to you trying to force a falsehood onto OoT (the combat is ridiculously simple) because you lack an understanding of the game, the context (both in time period and in genre) in which it was released, and have chosen to be willfully ignorant of its merits. If you had a deeper understanding of the above things, you would recognize its combat is not "ridiculously simple", because that is not a matter of opinion.

Anonymous Mon Jan 13 23:36:22 2014 No.1337032

>>1336992
>The point is someone who only likes realism and sweeps Cubism under the rug because he doesn't like it has no business thinking their opinions on aspects of Cubism are in any way valid, let alone as valid to someone with a deep understanding of Cubism.
Why's that? Am I not qualified to hold an opinion on certain aspects of Skrillex songs because I don't care about dubstep?

>It all boils down to you trying to force a falsehood onto OoT (the combat is ridiculously simple) because you lack an understanding of the game
I never gave my opinion on OoT. And if I had, why would it matter if I was judging it individually, even if I had never played a game other than it in my life before? Why must it be judged EXCLUSIVELY by comparison rather than standalone and not only that, but exclusively by comparison to similar things from a similar date, and, on top of that, without possibility of disagreeing in potentially finding something else at the time more complex to me, personally, at the very least? Again, this isn't my opinion, but how can you know that I'm wrong by default just for disagreeing?

Is it unreasonable to say Goldeneye didn't have such great design after all just because PC games didn't "count" and the console games that greatly surpassed it (which is, of course, subjective) tended to come out after rather than before it?

I know it seems like I'm just being pretentious at this point, but I'm really not. I'm here to point out that this it certainly not anyone trying to "force a falsehood" and instead is simply an alternative perspective. Does the person have a different background? Maybe. But maybe not. And if they do, maybe it goes back even further than yours or mine.

>(you) have chosen to be willfully ignorant of its merits
Maybe they just disagree with those merits.

>If you had a deeper understanding of the above things, you would recognize its combat is not "ridiculously simple"
How do you know that? Can you read you read minds? Also...

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 13 23:38:22 2014 No.1337038 >>1337032 ...how do you know I don't have a "deeper understanding"? >because that is not a matter of opinion. How you perceive something to be is not a matter of opinion?

Anonymous Mon Jan 13 23:39:22 2014 No.1337039

You can think what you want. I think it's not overrated but that's just me. I have a great deal of nostalgia for it and playing it now, it still lives up to that nostalgia.

I can see why you would think that though. Because At one point Ocarina of Time and Final Fantasy VII had achieved what I like to call AC/DC status. And that is where there is this strange universal agreement between everyone that Ocarina of Time and Final Fantasy VII were the best things ever to be created and you were practically shunned if you didn't like them. People who had never even played OoT or FFVII were giving it praise, and buying the merch like keychains and T-shirts n shit.

Nirvana is like this now. I made a point of this by going into a thread and explaining to people how Kirt Cobain was actually a dick drug addict who despised constructive criticism from his band mates, and in an interview the drummer of the band David Grohl said both him and Krist Novoselic thought he was an asshole.

Needless to say I got called names for speaking the truth because nobody has opinions about anything Nirvana without consequences.

Anonymous Mon Jan 13 23:49:23 2014 No.1337058

>>1337032
>>1337038
And you still continue to miss the point. Firstly, you can't "disagree with a merit", if something has a certain quality you can't erase the fact that it has that because you disagree that it has the thing that it has.

Secondly, go read up on the Z-Targeting system, how it was designed, the swordplay, etc. Educate yourself and then have a valid, educated opinion.

Thirdly, I'm done arguing until you've done so. You don't have the faintest clue what you're talking about, and if you continue to be willfully ignorant there's no point in continuing this any further. You're entitled to your ignorant, uneducated opinions, but you are not entitled to have people congratulate you for them or accept them as valid.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 00:07:40 2014 No.1337087 >>1336775 >1997

Anonymous Tue Jan 14 00:13:10 2014 No.1337098

>>1337058
>Firstly, you can't "disagree with a merit"
What does that even really mean? Can you tell me one objective "merit" that can't be disagreed with in literally any game ever? Because I'll gladly come up with a way someone could've preferred something else more or even found it to be negative in some way, assuming I've played it.

>Secondly, go read up on the Z-Targeting system, how it was designed, the swordplay, etc.
How does that have anything to do with anything? Are things better just because you put more work into them in ways you subjectively feel are "better"? What if I felt the lock-on just makes it a dumb, lock and mash A sort of game? I don't think that, but what if I did? How would that truly be wrong OR "uneducated" in any way? Is it truly impossible to believe anyone who knows the intricate details of creation could think that? How does its technicality in any way change the way it plays to an individual on the receiving end?

>You don't have the faintest clue what you're talking about
You're acting like you can read my mind again. Do you tell fortunes, man? I'm trying to talk to you and your responses have just been, "no, you just CAN'T understand so I won't tell you." Instead of telling me what I know, why don't you tell me what you know and why it differs from what I've said? Tell me the merits and tell me WHY the combat is special to you relative to other things at the time.

Alternatively, I could turn it around.
>You're entitled to your ignorant, uneducated opinions, but you are not entitled to have people congratulate you for them or accept them as valid.

Do you see how ridiculous that is?

>>1337039
If it makes you feel better, I found Nirvana shitty and overrated back in the day too.

I don't get or like that whole grungy, "lol let's act uncool, bitter and plain" thing. Kind of equate it to what most people consider modern hipsters today. Being just regularly cool is alright too, man. No need to fight it as if they're better than that.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 00:14:10 2014 No.1337101 >>1337098 great post there is no such thing as "objective merits of quality" when judging art

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 01:05:13 2014 No.1337185 >>1337101 k whatever, just know that almost everyone in the world disagrees with you

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 01:12:43 2014 No.1337194 File: 113 KB, 900x662, co7yt86h7yt6r5.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1336492

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 01:17:13 2014 No.1337202 >>1336889 >you are wrong, go to college or read a book or something God, I hate people who respond this way. You may very well know something the rest of us don't but if you are too lazy to construct an argument then why bother posting?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 01:23:43 2014 No.1337210 Oh look, another 'game x is overrated/underrated thread' that is completely free of any game design analysis, and nobody manages to prove anything with their hot opinions and arguments about semantics.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 01:30:13 2014 No.1337223 "Overrated" is a nonsense word used by douchebags who think their opinion holds more weight than the majority.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 01:34:13 2014 No.1337227 It's like FF VII. It's been proclaimed to be the best video game ever by a lot of people. It's overrated, but it's still a damn good game.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 01:37:13 2014 No.1337230 I still like OoT just as much as I did when I was kid.

Anonymous Tue Jan 14 01:39:13 2014 No.1337234

I honestly think most of the gaming world is wrong. The best reviewers are not objective at all; rather, they are completely, utterly subjective. I usually view "objectivity" as a crutch and something to hide behind when they don't want to put their values on the table.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 01:42:44 2014 No.1337236 >>1337087 Oh whoops I was off by a year wasn't I

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 01:44:13 2014 No.1337239 >>1337194 Th-this is my fetish Do you have any more

Anonymous Tue Jan 14 01:49:13 2014 No.1337243

>>1337194
>tfw no muscle waifu
>tfw I will never have a muscle waifu unless I go full bodybuilder mode, which is exactly the opposite of what I think is an attractive self-image of myself
Not that there's anything wrong with thin or curvy girls, but... yeah.
>they will never hold you down and fuck you

>>1337234
I kinda agree with what you're saying, even though there isn't really a such thing as objectivity with this stuff. They're trying way too hard to be "fair" and think of what others will feel at times, that they aren't always honest. I think that's part of the reason people are sometimes afraid to attack blatantly meh AAA games that even the community rates as meh. Of course, I'm talking about gaming magazines and the general gaming community. I wouldn't doubt some are bought off, but I think part of it is a deep fear that if they shit on something too hard and they're wrong, it could cost them their job and make people question their credibility forever. Imagine if you rated Halo, Doom, Pokemon R/B/Y or any of those sorts of games a 6/10 and attacked a popular feature. You may never be considered a valid video game journalist again and might have to find an entirely new career. You might have a completely valid point, but it doesn't matter because no one would forgive you. It wasn't such a big deal back in the day, but these days gaming is super political and people almost care more about the people around games than the games themselves. It's strange.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 02:01:43 2014 No.1337258 Have you noticed people never list the games that are better than OoT when they claim it to be overrated?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 02:03:43 2014 No.1337260 >>1336139 It seems like nobody likes it these days, so no.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 02:09:46 2014 No.1337264 >>1336889 >go to college Just did, now I have a $60,000 debt. Thanks asshole.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 02:34:46 2014 No.1337281 >>1337243 I agree. I think a reviewer should shamelessly bring their own values into their review. A reviewer should not "stand for gamers" or "stand for the common gamer". Every individual is different and approaches games in a different way.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 02:54:16 2014 No.1337295 >>1337258 Overrated =/= I think something is better

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 03:04:46 2014 No.1337314 >>1337295 True, but it would substantiate your point if you had an example of something that was more deserving of what you perceive to be an excess of praise.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 03:19:16 2014 No.1337330 >>1336139 no, majora's mask is.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 03:35:05 2014 No.1337339 >>1337264 He's gonna come back and say >ONLY 60k?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 03:53:36 2014 No.1337351 >>1337330 Finally someone says it. Megaman 3 is the same.

Anonymous Tue Jan 14 04:05:06 2014 No.1337359

why do people still fall for such an idiotic statement?

Overrated by who? Just any game has people that love it and others who hate it?

You may as well ask "is this game enjoyed?"

Its not like games have a numerical value of goodness.

A game can be overpriced but notoverated

Anonymous Tue Jan 14 04:26:07 2014 No.1337382
File: 1.09 MB, 1000x800, zeldalove.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>1336139
I think you could move the statement over to is Zelda overrated, or has it become overrated? I feel like Ocarina is the melting point for the series. They released a brilliant title, but the unfortunate precedent it sets for following titles I think will be it's ultimate legacy, in addition to the godlike music.
You have two releases that follow that are often described as antithetical to OoT and brought arise to an age of divisive opinions on the series and for the first time, real critical perspective. People tend to forget that in the age of LttP and OoT, they were unquestioned truths. It wasn't until MM and WW that people began to express differing opinions.
It is born of this unrest that gave birth to the last two console titles, TP and SS. Two titles that try so hard to be OoT 2, that they lack their own definitive identity. Their dedication to imitation is what makes their lack of charm so glaring. They want to be OoT, but it sorely lacks anything as charming as Gerudo Valley or Song of Storms. They bring some small quality of life improvements, but they are outshone by imprecise motion controls. What you are left with is a very unfulfilling imitation of (once) greatness.
The unreasonable, nostalgia fueled standard the game has set will be it's forever lasting legacy. With the burden of blame on the audience for their inability to accept anything that doesn't appear to be the same, and the developers for their willingness to cater to the complainer class. It will remain this way until they both grow up and let OoT be OoT and Zelda move on.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 05:29:54 2014 No.1337421 >>1336527 I hate how I can't watch a single review anymore without hearing imitation plinkett mannerisms.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 05:31:24 2014 No.1337425 File: 29 KB, 298x572, 1389695461819.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1337421 For sure, that shit has to stop.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 06:55:12 2014 No.1337479 >>1336139 I think overrated is silly term. Its like saying "i don't agree with the praise" except with the implication that its apparently a fact that its not as good as people make it out to be, as opposed to simply being your opinion.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 08:20:34 2014 No.1337536 >>1336774 The original quote was actually that Haitch was a 7 pushed like a 9 that made him look like a 5. That didn't fit within the context of OOT though, so I boosted all three numbers by 2.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 08:31:04 2014 No.1337538 File: 33 KB, 368x368, 1364615365906.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1336139 Wind Waker is my favorite Zelda game... but probably because I played OoT and MM first. ;D

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 08:32:34 2014 No.1337539 >>1336861 >Access to ALL these moves >pointless since combat boils down to either "mash like a retard" or "Jump slash since it's your strongest attack"

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 08:50:06 2014 No.1337551 >>1337425 What's imitation plinkett? Pretending to be some video maker?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 08:53:36 2014 No.1337554 >>1337539 What kind of pleeb hasn't learned about crouchstabbing?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 09:17:06 2014 No.1337573 >>1336139 Oh for FUCKS SAKES, there's already 2 other threads to OOT, why have you made a third one? Use the catalog next time and stop bloating up the board, you dimwit. Report submitted!

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 09:29:24 2014 No.1337583 File: 41 KB, 400x342, 1307631212197.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >people saying Hillian instead of Highlian

Anonymous Tue Jan 14 10:14:54 2014 No.1337626

>>1337382

OoT put Nintendo in a strange position, because to most Zelda fans, it gave them EXACTLY what they wanted in a 3D Zelda. They just completely nailed it the first time. Of course I'm sure a lot of people DIDN'T like it, but it seems like most Zelda fans did.

How do you go forward from there? MM had the right idea. Some people seem to think it was a "black sheep" at time of release, but I don't agree; for the most part it got great reviews, and fans were a bit mixed but many were passionate. At this point MM is arguably THE most loved Zelda game among Zelda fans on the internet.

I don't think WW was an antithesis to OoT. In fact I think it WAS trying to be the next OoT but still managed to feel different enough. I never liked WW though. Amazing graphics but I think it has the dullest gameplay of any game in the series. While TP WAS trying too hard to be the next OoT, I thought it had a lot of really cool, interesting parts that were satisfying. It's a messy package but had some thrilling moments.

I think this is OoT's legacy: Nintendo put everything they wanted Zelda to put in that game. Honestly, I feel like Zelda could have ended after MM and not much would have been lost.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 10:20:43 2014 No.1337630 >>1337626 So time for a star tropics reboot? If yo-yo is utilized like in rygar ps2 anyway.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 10:44:59 2014 No.1337640 >>1337583 >not pronouncing it ハイリア

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 11:41:31 2014 No.1337693 >>1337626 >to most Zelda fans, it gave them EXACTLY what they wanted in a 3D Zelda. That's just sad.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 11:44:01 2014 No.1337702 >>1337693 not really. great world of Hyrule, amazing dungeons, badass Link, amazing music, epic storyline...plus the best archetypes for Link, Zelda and Ganon possible

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 11:55:02 2014 No.1337720 File: 22 KB, 300x380, scott steiner 1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1337536 are we really gonna get into numbers here?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 11:55:32 2014 No.1337719 >>1337702 It didn't have any of those things.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 12:16:32 2014 No.1337742 >>1337719 well thats your opinion...but to most people, it did, and thats the point. people already had what they wanted in zelda so nintendo didnt know where to go all zelda games after MM just feel like diminishing returns

Anonymous Tue Jan 14 12:18:50 2014 No.1337745

It's easily a 9/10 game, but the people who treat it as the end-all of Zelda and that nothing can ever come close to surpassing it are fucking deluded.

As a guy who vastly prefers the exploration and npc interaction over dungeons I would much rather play Majoras Mask, Wind Waker, Okami or a majority of the 2d games. Hyrule field, while impressive at the time from a tech standpoint, was boring as hell as a hub.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 12:21:49 2014 No.1337749 >>1337539 hey remember that time when you were fighting a stalfos and mashing a/jump slashing was an effective strategy at all? no because you clearly havent played the fucking game

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 12:22:19 2014 No.1337751 >>1337749 *mashing b goshdangit

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 12:24:20 2014 No.1337752 >>1337749 Yes it was, what are you talking about?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 12:26:19 2014 No.1337756 >>1337752 er how? they block and strafe constantly and can jump behind you. i really dont see how mashing b could get you anywhere without them fucking you up first.

Anonymous Tue Jan 14 12:39:19 2014 No.1337762

>>1337745

I agree it's not the end all of Zelda. But I think it's equally silly to say that OoT has been rendered useless because the future games improved on it in every way. I totally disagree with THAT. I think OoT outshines the future games in many ways. OoT gets a ton of intense fanboy love, but it also gets a ton of resentment, arguably more than any game on 4chan.

I do like exploration and NPC interaction, but my problem is that WW didn't have very good of either. MM is great because it's just so unique and compelling. Admittedly I am a big fan of dungeons, which is why I love OoT and am a big fan of TP, moreso than most.

I'm not attacking you specifically, but I think it's funny how the most popular Zeldas on /v/ and possible the internet are MM and WW, when they are probably the least "zelda like" games if you think about it.

I still say Zelda 1 and 2 on the NES are the best of all. But I will never get why people say OoT has crappy dungeons: I think it has the best designed and most atmospheric dungeons in the series.

Also, Zelda hasn't been about "exploration" since Zelda 1. At least that's how I see it.

Anonymous Tue Jan 14 12:43:19 2014 No.1337765

Ocarina of Time is one of those games that plays perfectly even for today standards and still mantains a good overall design. It hasn't aged as a game, it doesn't have any flaws like bad camera or any mechanic. If it was released today as a brand new game for the 3DS as it is, it still would be considered fantastic, even though some may complain about the empty Hyrule field, or maybe not considering the large boring sea in Wind Waker everyone loves.

It can be perfected? Of course, you could add maybe more secondary quests or interaction with characters or fancy morality systems or whatever you feel like. But as it is, it's just a really well designed game that can stand on its own and be played by any generation.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 12:45:19 2014 No.1337768 >>1337765 >it doesn't have any flaws Speed. In every possible sense of the word.

Anonymous Tue Jan 14 12:47:50 2014 No.1337771

>>1337762
>MM
>when they are probably the least "zelda like" games if you think about it.
This makes me sad though. Just speaking about Majora's Mask because I wish more Zelda games had elements like that. The way you connect with every NPC and how they change through the passing of time is something I wish they did more often. I'm not asking everything to be heartbreaking, just for Nintendo to pay attention to little details like that.

Anonymous Tue Jan 14 12:47:50 2014 No.1337772

>>1337765

i honestly never had much of a problem with hyrule field, for 2 reasons

-i kind of like big, empty spaces. i know it sounds weird, but its kind of atmospheric to me to just walk around the outskirts, like that area with a bunch of trees or the river outside the castle. its kind of cool when stuff is there not to serve an obvious purpose, but just to be there, like real life

-i dont see OoT as the kind of game that's about exploration. its more about going through the story, interacting with NPCs and doing dungeons. Yeah, you explore grottos and stuff, but its not like i had the expectation of the game being really mysterious.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 12:48:19 2014 No.1337776 >>1337768 I never had a problem with speed in the game. That's why they give you Epona. Also Zelda plays better when you take your time to enjoy it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 12:49:49 2014 No.1337779 >>1337776 I think he was talking about the framerate and text and stuff. OoT is 20 FPS. It hardly ever chokes up, but the game itself is just slow. Most N64 games are.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 12:50:49 2014 No.1337783 >>1337779 then he'll probably like the 3DS remake.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 12:51:49 2014 No.1337786 >>1337783 Not him but I hate the menu system in the remake.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 12:52:19 2014 No.1337789 >>1337786 why?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 12:54:19 2014 No.1337790 >>1337789 I just hate using the touchscreen

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 13:05:19 2014 No.1337808 >>1337776 >that's why they give you Epona >Young Link's shit out of luck though Nevermind "fast travel" is still tedious Ocarina playing. OoT was so slow that they made sure one of the items in MM was a "WALK FASTER" hat

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 13:11:49 2014 No.1337817 >>1337779 >>1337808 Are you guys playing the PAL version? Cause it wasn't speed optimized. Link walks 17% in them.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 13:12:49 2014 No.1337820 >>1337817 *17% slower

Anonymous Tue Jan 14 13:16:19 2014 No.1337826

If you look at it from a totally objective standpoint, OoT has a lot of flaws:

-Big, empty, useless Hyrule Field
-Horrible first few hours, incredibly slow pacing and dialogue, feels like a 2 hour long tutorial
-Completely generic "good vs evil" story, whole game just feels like ALttP in 3D
-Having to press start to equip Iron Boots is one of the poorest design decisions ever in a major title
-Ridiculously easy, no real threat of dying ever, combat is pattern-based and doesn't require much movement
-Dungeons are simple and uninspiried
-NPCs are completely flat and uninteresting, no depth or character development
-Bland, ambient music in several areas of the game

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 13:19:49 2014 No.1337830 >>1337826 >thinking that ambient music is automatically bad Are you kidding? The Deku Tree song is insanely cool. It fits so perfectly. As does the Jabu-Jabu theme

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 13:22:50 2014 No.1337832 >>1337826 You don't know what objective means, you cunt.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 13:36:50 2014 No.1337843 >>1337826 - Started the trend of you not really needing consumable items, since everything grows from grass or bomb flowers. - By extension, makes rupees nearly useless.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 13:47:20 2014 No.1337853 >>1337826 >Dungeons are simple and uninspiried >Bland, ambient music in several areas of the game Bull Shit.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 14:03:51 2014 No.1337872 >>1337853 It's true. They were white noise, not music. Forest Temple is a great example. Just this shrill sound going "Hee-Ha, hee-ha, hee-ha" while "wooosh" noises went on alongside.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 14:12:20 2014 No.1337885 i never played this game but i'm waiting my computer to download it so... should i read this post?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 14:12:50 2014 No.1337890 >>1337885 hell no dude. play the game yourself and see how you feel about it.

Anonymous Tue Jan 14 14:15:21 2014 No.1337893

>>1337872

Wow, I think the Forest Temple theme is absolutely amazing and makes it feel incredibly atmospheric.

A really melodic tune simply wouldn't have fit. And I think it's hilarious you think it's "not music". You seriously don't think ambient is music?

Anonymous Tue Jan 14 14:16:50 2014 No.1337898

>>1337843

This to me is my biggest annoyance about OoT. Rupees are completely useless. By extension, the shops are useless. Having really limited supplies probably wouldn't be fun either; ultimately, the game just has too many items which makes the gameplay feel stagnant.

I liked how it worked in Zelda 1, where every arrow you shot cost rupees.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 14:30:20 2014 No.1337921 >>1337898 Speaking of this, is there anyone who actually waited for the price drop for the shield before getting it?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 14:34:20 2014 No.1337930 >>1337921 Don't even need that much: there's a freebie in the graveyard.

Anonymous Tue Jan 14 14:38:19 2014 No.1337938

>>1337898
OoT is pretty easy, but that's not really the fault of the game.

Nintendo wasn't confident how audiences not used to 3D gameplay (unlike the audiences of today) would react in terms of orientation. There was a serious worry that players would get completely lost in the massive overworld (Hyrule Field in 1998 was the single largest 3D area ever up to that point, flight simulators aside). That they would get lost and accomplish nothing. That's why the game keeps piling on the rupees.

Of course Aonuma Zelda, who found the NES Zelda games too hard, thought the games were "supposed to be like that", and not only maintained the easy difficulty level in the 'introductory game' that was OoT but actually made it easier in the following games (MM is easier in some ways, harder in others though).

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 15:31:59 2014 No.1338015 >>1337938 >harder in others Such as?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 15:35:59 2014 No.1338023 >>1337898 It's really been like this every game past Lttp. Notably, except for TP, which bombs and arrows aren't found in the grass. (of course they still show up in chests everywhere)

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 15:45:29 2014 No.1338040 File: 35 KB, 490x356, 1384917736048.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1337720 Yes.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 15:54:29 2014 No.1338054 >>1336139 I'll say the same thing I said in the other thread. Yes, it is overrated. And even if it is, I still like it. So, what if it is over-rated?

Anonymous Tue Jan 14 16:24:31 2014 No.1338096

>>1337771
The cool thing about Majora's Mask was that it genuinely evolved the way you interacted with NPCs and added another layer of depth to the game world. They should have ingrained this into all the following dungeon-centric Zelda games to truly create something awe-inspiring. Excepts the current developers are either ignorant about it or just plain lazy.

And that's the big problem I have with the newer entries. Instead of them asking how the new could be used to make the old better, the old gets thrown out the door and gets supplanted with the new, only for the old to make a reappearance in the next game without the previous new. And in turn, this fuels the fan shitflinging over traditional vs innovative without realizing the two aren't mutually exclusive.

Anonymous Tue Jan 14 17:05:06 2014 No.1338130
File: 22 KB, 400x501, Scott+Steiner.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>1338040
>>1338040
SEE NORMALLY IF YOU COMPARE ONE ON ONE WITH OOT, ANOTHER ZELDA GAME HAS A FIFTY FIFTY CHANCE OF BEING BETTER. BUT MAJORAS MASK IS A GENETIC FREAK AND IS NOT NORMAL SO OOT HAS A 25% AT BEST AT BEING THE BETTER GAME. THEN YOU ADD ALTTP TO THE MIX AND YOUR CHANCES OF BEING BETTER DRASTICALLY GO DOWN! SEE THE THREE WAY AT GAMESPOT YOU GOT A THIRTY THREE AND ONE THIRD CHANCE OF BEING THE BETTER GAME, BUT MM HAS A SIXTY-SIX AND TWO THIRDS CHANCE BECAUSE ALTTP KNOWS ITS NOT A BETTER GAME THAN MM AND ITS NOT EVEN GONNA TRY. SO OOT YOU TAKE YOUR THIRTY THREE AND A THIRD CHANCE MM'S 25% CHANCE AND YOU GOT AN EIGHT AND A THIRD CHANCE OF BEING THE BETTER GAME AT GAMESPOT. BUT THEN YOU TAKE MM'S 75% CHANCE OF BEING BETTER IF OOT WERE TO GO ONE ON ONE AND THEN ADD SIXTY SIX AND TWO THIRDS.. PERCENTS..

MM'S GOT A HUNDRED AND FORTY ONE AND TWO THIRDS CHANCE OF BEING THE BETTER GAME AT GAMESPOT. YOU SEE OOT, THE NUMBERS DON'T LIE

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 17:26:49 2014 No.1338196 >>1338130 10/10

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 17:32:50 2014 No.1338225 Do we really need to have a daily discussion about this, /vr/?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 17:40:20 2014 No.1338245 >>1337551 shit like >I'm going off on a tangent or saying something mildly controversial better do an abrupt cut

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 17:47:20 2014 No.1338261 >>1338023 That doesn't really help a lot though. Money is still very common and there's only a few things to spend it on, but no point to doing so because the game is too easy.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 17:50:50 2014 No.1338269 >>1338225 maybe

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 17:54:20 2014 No.1338273 >>1336139 yes

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 17:54:20 2014 No.1338274 >>1338261 Yes, but that wasn't my point. I was just stated that TP was one of the zelda's where you probably need to actively buy arrows and bombs. And Rupees are a huge waste of time.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 18:02:50 2014 No.1338286 >>1336818 >implying he was quoting

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 18:24:22 2014 No.1338340 >>1338286 >being this new

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 18:37:22 2014 No.1338369 If you look at OoT objectively, without nostalgia goggles, you will see that it is a very mediocre game, that was utterly surpassed by the games that came after. It is easily the most overrated game of all time.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 18:59:10 2014 No.1338427 >>1338369 Name the games that surpass it that aren't too much older.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 19:00:40 2014 No.1338430 >>1338369 empty post that explains nothing and means nothing

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 19:07:11 2014 No.1338453 >>1337826 >-Dungeons are simple and uninspiried

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 19:09:10 2014 No.1338459 >>1337779 Complaining about fps being an issue when it was no worse than any other game of the system/era is like saying x game is bad because it's old and has graphics contemporary to when it was released.

Anonymous Tue Jan 14 19:09:40 2014 No.1338458

>>1338430

No, I get what he's saying. I love Nintendo, but was always pretty "meh" about OoT. I love certain aspects, like the atmosphere, and the sound effects and music are very nostalgic to me.

However, I never understood people calling the game "vast", or "epic". The areas are really tiny, and if you look at the game as a whole, it feels really dumb how small scale everything is. In fact that's a criticism I aim at all Zelda games really. Hyrule is generally very small and focused, and for a game that involves "saving the land of Hyrule" generally, you have to question why seeing as it's so small and crappy. Not as if it'd be any great loss. A couple of hundred people and some monsters. Why would Ganondorf even want it?

It's excusable in older games, as it was the norm. But as RPGs increased in size and scope, Zelda never did. Why? Because of nostalgia, and everything having to be the same to a degree otherwise fanboys have a fit. It's what is plaguing Nintendo in general these days. They have massively creative minds creating the same thing over and over again because they're too scared to deviate from what they know sells. They could have created a hundred new IPs by now, but they don't dare.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 19:14:10 2014 No.1338471 >>1338459 Not really. The original SMB has very good aesthetics and looks better than something like NSMB. Just because something is old doesn't excuse it from anything

Anonymous Tue Jan 14 19:16:10 2014 No.1338481

>>1338471
>The original SMB has very good aesthetics and looks better than something like NSMB.

I'm gonna disagree. NSMB looks 100 times better and actually feels like the Mario art come to life. Everything is cute and charming. SMB, on the other hand, just looks really ugly and lacks the charm that any of the other games in the series brought with it.

Game quality on the other hand is a different story entirely

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 19:23:40 2014 No.1338507 File: 83 KB, 600x800, stop wasting space on -vr-.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1336139 >Is OoT overrated? No. See the following. >>1336751

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 19:28:11 2014 No.1338528 >>1338507 Wind Waker came out when I was (exactly) 12 and I found it unplayable compared to OoT.

Anonymous Tue Jan 14 19:38:10 2014 No.1338550
File: 415 KB, 1323x1500, 1376445317980.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>1337626

I think you hit the nail on the head. Considering that it was 1998 and the first 3d Zelda, OoT was pretty much as good as it could of been for the time. Almost every other 2d to 3d transition was done horribly, and it took a while for the developers to figure out how to improve it (Sonic, Castlevania, Mega Man). With OoT though they got it the first time. Few Zelda games after OoT have made any significant improvements to the series. I kinda feel like MM is ultimately a better game, but it's based entirely on OoT's engine and overall gameplay.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 19:47:27 2014 No.1338568 >>1338550 that is not a well drawn picture, it also looks very silly I can't take your post seriously Majora's Mask is exactly the same as Ocarina, uses its music assets game engine etc, only the game design is worse and more flawed.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 19:48:57 2014 No.1338571 >>1336139 >asking this in 1998 + 16 >0/10

Anonymous Tue Jan 14 19:59:27 2014 No.1338590

>>1338568
>that is not a well drawn picture, it also looks very silly

The MM moon always looks silly. Why is it bad though?

>I can't take your post seriously

Other than Mario 64, name another 2d to 3d transition that was better.

>Majora's Mask is exactly the same as Ocarina, uses its music assets game engine etc, only the game design is worse and more flawed.

I said that MM was extremely similar, and it being better or not is a matter of taste.

I can't take your post seriously

Majora's Mask is exactly the same as Ocarina, uses its music assets game engine etc, only the game design is worse and more flawed.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 20:01:28 2014 No.1338597 >>1338590 Well I fucked that up.

Anonymous Tue Jan 14 20:05:57 2014 No.1338606
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>>1338528

>Wind Waker doesn't mean critical or sales expectations
>They blame it entirely on people not liking the graphics

I swear they made it cel shaded just so they would have something to complain about if it didn't do as well as they hoped.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 14 20:15:57 2014 No.1338624 >>1338606 If I had to be critical about anything about WW, it'd actually be the total lack of anything resembling difficulty. I mean, OoT is easy, I know that, but there are marshmallows harder than Wind Waker.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 15 02:05:33 2014 No.1339189 File: 23 KB, 600x450, charshocked.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1338130 Is that you Steve?

Anonymous Wed Jan 15 02:14:33 2014 No.1339209

>>1336139
Yes as well as the whole Zelda series in general. Most of the zelda series deserves it's praise i admit though. You will never convince me OOT is game of the year/best game ever made and that includes link to the past as well. I sure had my fun with both.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 15 02:25:49 2014 No.1339236 >>1338130 I wish The Big Bad Booty Daddy was my math teacher in high school.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 15 02:27:19 2014 No.1339239 the zelda series as a whole is vastly overrated. LTTP and Link's Awakening is the only good zelda.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 15 02:31:49 2014 No.1339245 >>1336415 i support this opinion... cant believe no-one replied to this

Anonymous Wed Jan 15 02:47:19 2014 No.1339262

>>1338606
Not the same guy, but I agree with him in that ww was unplayable.

Its not the graphics either...I found those to be good for what they were.
it was the triforce of courage grind quest that got to me...especially since you had to do it in an overworld that took forever to navigate across.
I mean it literally was a fucking grind
>go to random spot in the ocean
>get chart
>go to tingle
>nigga wants a billion fucking rupees to translate it
>grind for rupees
>go to where the chart tells you
>do mini dungeon
>????
>triforce
>repeat 8 fucking times

Anonymous Wed Jan 15 03:15:36 2014 No.1339294

>>1336139
I can see how someone would think so, but not really.

It's been call "the greatest of all time" enough to make it a lighting rod for the label "overrated". Overrated means that something doesn't deserve the praise it gets and in the end LoZ:OoT IS a great game. I mean, no game can truly BE the "greatest of all time", everyone has their own favorite and their own opinion. That aside, OoT has been called great by many, general opinion and critics. Having played it I think it's great. No matter how great a game is though, some where out there, someone will not like. Does one person not liking it make it overrated? Does one person saying "I don't get what the fuss is about" make it overrated? No. No they don't. Something is overrated when something is held as great, but is mediocre or bad. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 is overrated. Halo is overrated. God damn Angry Birds is overrated. Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time is NOT overrated.

Also, I wish people wouldn't make these "is X overrated" or "what's an overrated game" threads. They just start arguments.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 15 05:16:12 2014 No.1339397 File: 1.38 MB, 1051x2131, 1380704329401.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] i wouldn't say oot is overrated, but it is still quite good.(9-10 to 10/10) in my opinion the only flaw would be that the hubworld hyrule field was very bland/small.

Anonymous Wed Jan 15 05:35:42 2014 No.1339413

>>1339294
Exactly. One problem is, if one feels game of all time is overrating OoT, you have to ask: if not OoT, then what? Obviously, all games have their flaws, but could you actually find something as equally special if you were going to replace the Game of all time? Although it has it's flaws and issues, I would say that, because of lack of other games, it is a definate contender, and it'd not even my favourite Zelda.

I also think that, if you're picking it up today, or you haven't got it on that pedestal, the problem with it is the problem with the series: All variants on the 'Legend of Zelda'. With the exception of Link's Awakening, the Seasons, and Majora's Mask, the other games are all The same sort of Hylian save the Princess, with special sword, and a lot of the same. So, if you don't hold OoT too close, one could easily find a different favourite. Twilight Princess was flawed in it's Wolf sections, but it was a really elegant game, and, essentially, it was OoT 2.0, so there is no reason that that couldn't have been a favourite.

But, the reason why people still want OoT as the all time Great is because it was the first one to make that transition to 3D and it was great for its time.

Anonymous Wed Jan 15 06:43:02 2014 No.1339440

At the Time of release it was amazing, because it was the first 3D Zelda games and at the time, there is no doubt that it was one of the most graphically impressive games at the time.

And for me, one of the reasons why I still love it is because it aged well, it doesn't look so ugly compared to today's market of games, I can't bear to look at it, the sense of adventure is still there and the controls stand up still too, considering some of the modern crap I've played.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 15 06:49:32 2014 No.1339443 >hyrule field was very small Now this is proof of how people are approaching this game - without context. Hyrule Field was once regarded as the largest single 3D area in any game that wasn't a flight simulator.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 15 07:38:49 2014 No.1339460 >>1339443 It feels pointlessly big to me, because there's hardly anything in it.

Anonymous Wed Jan 15 09:27:55 2014 No.1339508
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>>1339443
its not really fair to judge something saying "it was good at the time".

you gotta stand back and judge the actual content quality/design with regards to the hardware limitations. they could have done a lot more with the hubworld.

Anonymous Wed Jan 15 09:28:25 2014 No.1339509

>>1339460
This, really. With the exception of MM, which still had it but not nearly to the same extent, this problem is in all of the 3d Zeldas I've played.

Nothing could be as good as what people make OoT out to be. That doesn't mean it's not a good game.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 15 09:43:55 2014 No.1339518 File: 50 KB, 136x370, Secondincommand_blue.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >you will never be the concubine of a beautiful Gerudo maiden

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 15 09:52:55 2014 No.1339524 >>1339508 Nice eyeshadow Fagondorf.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 15 10:20:29 2014 No.1339539 >>1339508 And games in that generation that did are...?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 15 10:47:59 2014 No.1339570 >>1336580 The 'empty field' doesn't matter when the rest of the world is so interesting.

Anonymous Wed Jan 15 10:51:59 2014 No.1339579

As someone who loves OoT, I disagree with the people saying "you have to consider when it came out and judge it accordingly"

I totally disagree. I judge things based on my own feelings, values and experiences. I cannot just erase the many years I've been playing games. I still find lots to appreciate about older games, not just for what they WERE, but what they still are. Many older games are superior to games released today. That is not a hipster or nostalgic statement but an honest opinion. In my opinion, Super Mario Bros 3 is unquestionably better than games like GTA5 or Bioshock Infinite

Why do I love OoT? Because I think it has amazing design, both world and dungeons, a beautifuly basic story (a good vs evil story distilled to a spiritual essense), and beautiful art direction and music. I dont love it for what it did, but what it is.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 15 10:58:00 2014 No.1339593 >>1339539 I shouldn't have to hold your hand. Hell this was 2 years before oot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flQfpBHBxNw

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 15 11:22:29 2014 No.1339632 >>1339593 That's definitely what oot needed, trees and more trees.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 15 11:34:29 2014 No.1339647 >>1339508 It shouldn't have had a hubworld in the first place. This is Zelda, not Mario.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 15 13:41:38 2014 No.1339804 >>1339632 I posted it for the sheer size and coming out years before oot. >>1339647 It just stands out because the rest of the game is exceptional. Creating lttp's world in 3d with a 3rd person camera was probably too difficult?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 15 13:47:38 2014 No.1339819 >>1339593 Are you stupid? How is Daggerfall full 3D?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 15 13:50:09 2014 No.1339824 >>1339593 so basically youre saying hyrule field shouldve been a lightyear long and full of nothing but static image trees. yeah thats not superior from an aesthetic or technical standpoint.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 15 14:18:08 2014 No.1339853 >>1339593 hahahahahahahhaahhahahahah that video is a perfect reason as to why thats a god awful idea

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 15 14:27:38 2014 No.1339865 >>1339593 My god, this is awful, there's absolutely nothing whatsoever in there, holy shit. Even the freaking Skyrim would feel more alive than this.

Anonymous Wed Jan 15 14:44:08 2014 No.1339894

>>1339824
>>1339853
>>1339865
>Hyrule Field was once regarded as the largest single 3D area in any game that wasn't a flight simulator.
I never said daggerfall's map was good, I just posted it because it was super fuckhuge and years before oot.
There was nothing impressive about oot's hyrule field at the time of release, and its seen as a downside now.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 15 14:47:08 2014 No.1339896 >>1339894 Aside from being on a home console? Aside from actually being in full 3d?

Anonymous Wed Jan 15 14:57:08 2014 No.1339909
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>>1339443
>>1339460
>>1339509

Call me crazy but I like it when a game has a large over-world with a lot of empty space. It gives the world a sense of size, and realistically most of the real world is just "empty" space. There's also just something very fun about wide open spaces in video games, whether they are empty or not.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 15 14:59:08 2014 No.1339912 >>1339909 I agree. NOt many other seem to share the thought though

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 15 15:03:43 2014 No.1339918 >>1339894 >There was nothing impressive about oot's hyrule field at the time of release Oh my god, please return to /v/ with the other underage shitposters.

Anonymous Wed Jan 15 15:12:43 2014 No.1339936
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>>1339894

How can people seriously think that OoT's Hyrule field is huge? It was just barely big enough. You can walk anywhere in just a couple of minutes. Almost everything is within sight of everything else. Kakariko and Death Mountain are practically in Hyrule Castle's backyard. There's a desert right next to a lake. I really can't imagine it being any smaller than it was.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 15 15:15:43 2014 No.1339939 >>1339894 What's seen as a downside? The field is great. I never played it back then, but when I did a few years ago, it was incredible.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 15 15:17:15 2014 No.1339943 >>1339936 Please name a game released in 1998 or earlier that has one single fully 3D area that is larger than Hyrule Field. no flight simulators

Anonymous Wed Jan 15 16:09:17 2014 No.1340041

>>1339413
>if one feels game of all time is overrating OoT, you have to ask: if not OoT, then what?
This is such an easy question to me.
Diablo 2, Quake 3, Final Fantasy 9 AND 10, Lunar 2: EBC, maybe even A Link to the Past and many other games from the time period were better to me. I also think Star Fox 64, Punch-Out!! and some other games were better, but they were trying to appeal to way different kinds of people so I don't think games with a high fun density are necessarily fair comparisons to something meant to be big and technically impressive rather than necessarily constantly trying to make you have a good time or be deep. Please don't go all
>implying Zelda is deep
>you're a casual if you think Zelda is technically impressive
>implying (game) is any good
etc.

My point is that there's a tremendously large pool of highly regarded games (even from the time period) and it's VERY easy to see how someone could think OoT is a 9/10 and that dozens of other games are 10/10s.

Even Halo might have been slightly higher rated to me, but maybe not. That would've been a close one. I'll admit OoT might beat that one.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 15 16:11:17 2014 No.1340050 >>1339943 banjo kazooie

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 15 16:11:17 2014 No.1340051 >>1340041 Whoops, kinda wrote that wrong. I meant to say Punch-Out!! and SF64 are very "shallow" experiences compared to the relative depth of games like OoT.

Anonymous Wed Jan 15 19:33:25 2014 No.1340464

>>1340041
I Actually found a list that compiled a ton of "greatest of all time" lists from different video game critics.

Here's the top 10 greatest "greatest of all time" of all time:

1. Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
2. Super Mario 64
3. Tetris
4. Final Fantasy VII
5. Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
6. GoldenEye 007
7. Super Mario Bros.
8. Half-Life 2
9. DOOM
10. Super Mario World

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 16 01:48:30 2014 No.1341160 >>1340050 Not one level in Banjo Kazooie is larger than Hyrule Field. Not even Treausre Trove Cove. It's not too far off, but can't beat it for size and draw distance.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 16 01:50:30 2014 No.1341162 >>1340464 >everything on that list and now someone is going to come along and claim it's all shit just to be a deviant

Anonymous Thu Jan 16 02:14:00 2014 No.1341202

>>1341162
I'll be that nigga.

1. Good game, not the best Zelda
2. Good game, not the best Mario
3. Never cared for
4. Good game, not the best FF
5. Good game, not the best Zelda
6. Perfect Dark does everything better
7. Good game, not the best Mario
8. Never played
9. Still one of my favorite 90s FPS games, even with all that came after it.
10. Good game

Well, I guess I'm not that nigga.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 16 02:43:30 2014 No.1341240 >>1336603 4chan is pretty fucking big.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 16 02:49:30 2014 No.1341246 >>1341240 Yes, but it's pretty secondary by comparison to many other central gaming locations. The video gaming discussion part of 4chan only takes up a portion of it. It might not even make it into the top 10 gaming sites by popularity.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 16 03:32:20 2014 No.1341297 >>1336139 By it's time it was mindblowing, and aged well, but is no BEST GAME EVER, not maybe even the best N64 game. Also, the GOTYAY 11/10 HOLY SHIT nowadays is WW.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 16 03:33:50 2014 No.1341298 >>1341297 >WW >a game with no difficulty at all >best ever I love Wind Waker but come on

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 16 03:36:50 2014 No.1341305 >>1341298 I meant that is the overhyped zelda nowadays. I don't like it that much, I even liked TP more.

Anonymous Thu Jan 16 04:04:24 2014 No.1341341

>>1341298
Why do you idiots always think hard = good?

Jesus, some people just find games well designed and good in spite of difficulty. There are few Kirby games that I consider bad, and the ones I consider good don't even begin to approach hard. But they're good games because they're well designed and fun

Anonymous Thu Jan 16 04:23:24 2014 No.1341363

>>1341341
>Why do you idiots always think hard = good?
Challenge is the whole point of gameplay.

Challenge = game.
No challenge = toy.

And, for the mentally deficient, toys are the end in itself, while for an intelligent person a toy is a tool for a game.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 16 04:26:24 2014 No.1341365 >>1341363 >Challenge is the whole point of gameplay. But that's wrong.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 16 04:28:24 2014 No.1341371 >>1341365 Gameplay consists of an obstacle and the process of overcoming it. Do you disagree?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 16 04:34:54 2014 No.1341378 >>1341371 Yes because that's an arbitrary definition of gameplay. Take Mario Party for example. You can win that game by literally doing nothing due to the RNG of the whole situation. Gameplay is what's featured in VIDEO GAMES. No more no less.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 16 04:36:24 2014 No.1341381 >>1341365 >But that's wrong. If you claim challenge is not the whole point of a game, then you are claiming that the point of the game is the 'experiences'. Which is a slippery slope to 'cinematic experiences'.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 16 04:36:24 2014 No.1341382 >>1341371 that is a depressing and close minded idea of gameplay I think of gameplay as seeing and hearing the game, and interacting with it by pressing buttons. I don't need a goal to enjoy a game.

Anonymous Thu Jan 16 04:38:54 2014 No.1341385

>>1341381
>then you are claiming that the point of the game is the 'experiences'.

Yes, the entire point I play video games is to experience them. To have FUN. Not every game achieves this in the same way.

>Which is a slippery slope to 'cinematic experiences'.

And if you were smart you'd know not to use slippery slopes to bolster your argument. There's no real challenge in most Harvest Moon games. That doesn't mean Harvest Moon is lacking in gameplay.

Holy shit you people are awful.

Anonymous Thu Jan 16 04:40:54 2014 No.1341387

>>1341382

expanding on this, when people say "zelda combat is simple, has no challenge"

complicated combat is not the focus nor intent of the game

"hyrule field is empty, that is a flaw"

it had limits based on the hardware, and the developers were aware of it; it was a calculated flaw

it supports the atmosphere of the game and that is enough

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 16 04:44:54 2014 No.1341389 >>1341387 >having decent combat isn't the focus of this action game This is why Aonuma Zelda is cancer.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 16 04:46:24 2014 No.1341393 >>1341389 ??? Zelda has always been like this. Skyward Sword changes things, and people complained about it because it broke up the pacing. I liked it, but that game is more action heavy in general because of the controller.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 16 04:47:25 2014 No.1341395 >>1341389 Zelda not being focused on action was something Zelda games frequently did long before he took over. Zelda 2 is seriously the only combat heavy Zelda game. But hey, whatever, go on and keep using your scapegoats.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 16 04:53:54 2014 No.1341401 >>1341395 Zelda 1 for as simple as it is, actually has deeper and more engaging combat than the 3D games, since you have to actually manuever and dodge around your foes, and mashing the attack button like a retard will only get you killed.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 16 05:01:42 2014 No.1341405 >>1341401 This. Particularly with enemies who can't be attacked from the front. Aonuma has dulled people's memories of what Zelda is supposed to be like.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 16 05:06:43 2014 No.1341408 >>1341395 Take into account, that zelda-like games before zelda didn't even had a attack button, and many were turn based.

Anonymous Thu Jan 16 05:08:12 2014 No.1341409

>>1341401
>>1341405

none of it is planned difficulty, most old games are like this

the AI is very brutish and random, and the difficulty is inconsistent and lopsided and some things are piss easy with certain exploits

it's not like, Devil May Cry, which is very methodical and well thought out

basically I'm saying combat being harder doesn't mean the design is better; the boss design in Zelda 1 & 2 is quite shitty frankly

Anonymous Thu Jan 16 05:11:42 2014 No.1341413

>>1341405
I wonder how a more action based zelda would do, and I don't mean a DW with a zelda skin.

For example, I wonder what would happen if nintendo contracted falcom to do one or two zelda games like they did with capcom in the past, falcom games seem to cover modern zelda's weak points pretty well.

Anonymous Thu Jan 16 05:12:42 2014 No.1341414

>>1341409
Except DMC has shitty controls, shitty design, shitty gameplay and horrible bosses.

And old games like Zelda are simple, good, and enjoyable.

I cannot imagine what brain-altering bullshit has been injected into "gamers" minds over the last 10-15 years to make them fall in love with garbage and hate old, classic, good games, but it irritates the fuck out of me.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 16 05:15:12 2014 No.1341419 >>1341381 Is this a joke? There are entire genres of games that pose no challenge and still contain great games. For one, anything that involves building or simulating.

Anonymous Thu Jan 16 05:16:12 2014 No.1341421

>>1341382
>that is a depressing and close minded idea of gameplay
It's like saying that "storytelling through visual media is a depressing and close minded idea of cinema".

I'm not "close minded", you're just all over the place, unfocused and ignorant.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 16 05:20:12 2014 No.1341430 >>1341421 you're being overly defensive and that was a terrible analogy

Anonymous Thu Jan 16 06:19:28 2014 No.1341467

not liking Ocarina of time, or any zelda game really, makes you a bad person

its really as simple as that

you have to be the kind of douchebag that has some pretentious idea of the perfect game in their mind, in order to play ocarina of time and not get intense enjoyment

do i think its the best game of all time, no, but I dont think all that many people claim that, maybe its overrated, its hard to say what community you're referring to when you say that though

wind waker is better though

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 16 06:22:58 2014 No.1341470 >>1341363 >not liking toys >pretentious about gaimz what a fucking faggot, jesus christ

Anonymous Thu Jan 16 06:24:29 2014 No.1341471

>>1341401
>actually has deeper and more engaging combat than the 3D games

No it doesn't.

It's more challenging, but it sure as hell isn't deeper. And there are only 2 enemies that pose issues in LoZ anyway: Darknuts and Wizzrobes. Every other enemy in the game, save for bosses, is just stab-fodder.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 16 06:48:59 2014 No.1341490 >>1341414 >I cannot imagine what brain-altering bullshit It's called graphics, anon. Most 'gamers' are really just technology fetishists, despite their denials.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 16 09:45:11 2014 No.1341606 >>1336139 In 1998 no In 2014 yes

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 16 12:45:19 2014 No.1341792 I completed it for the first time in about 2011 or 2010 after having zero nintendo nostalgia. It deserves the hype imo.

Anonymous Thu Jan 16 12:47:49 2014 No.1341795

>>1341471
It's plenty deeper, as you actually need to factor the room's layout, and keep aware of other enemies. You can only defend from one side, and likewise only attack in one direction.

Compared to OoT which is "lock on and jump slash/mash b button and stun lock" there's just no comparison.

Anonymous Thu Jan 16 12:53:50 2014 No.1341809

>>1341795
>you actually need to factor the room's layout

Applies to OoT

>and keep aware of other enemies.

Applies to OoT

>You can only defend from one side

Surely you're seeing a pattern here.

>and likewise only attack in one direction.

I'll give you this.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 16 12:54:49 2014 No.1341810 File: 328 KB, 651x431, nzg684.jpg.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1341795 none of that takes much thought as far as video games go unless you're like 8 years old. ocarina of time isn't much better, but still

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 16 13:18:23 2014 No.1341835 >>1341809 >>1341795 >instant spin attack

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 16 15:13:42 2014 No.1342036 >>1336139 Yes, incredibly. But still a great game nevertheless.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 16 15:36:15 2014 No.1342069 If you played it back in 1998 it was one of the most mind-blowing game experiences. Top-notch graphics and gameplay in the same game.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 16 15:58:02 2014 No.1342093 >>1342069 In almost three years time there will be posters on /vr/ that will have been born after the game came out, and not bannable for underage.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 17 01:03:02 2014 No.1343167 >>1342069 >Good gameplay If you like pushing blocks

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 17 01:42:03 2014 No.1343241 >>1342069 >Top-notch graphics Not true. If you only had a snes and jumped into n64 then I could understand.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 17 01:43:33 2014 No.1343245 >>1343241 Except that they were good, and still are good.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 17 01:55:50 2014 No.1343274 >>1343167 Exaggeration. It's not that common. >>1343241 Provide counter-examples. Like I'd have said Heretic II except that it's PC.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 17 02:00:06 2014 No.1343283 >>1342093 Good thing I'll be dead by then.

Anonymous Fri Jan 17 02:08:06 2014 No.1343290
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I never thought it to be overrated, but I became bored with people constantly calling it the best game ever created.

Frankly, I feel like the 3DS remake shows how good the game is: it only fools around with a few things (outside of the obvious graphics upgrade), such as giving the option for precise motion controlled aiming. The few small changes make the game feel like game of the year material all over again, without touching any dungeon design, overworld layout, music, or anything else.

Originally, the overwhelming majority of people who shit on Ocarina of Time are contrarian shitheads hellbent on getting a reaction out of people. Now it is a trend to hate OoT and people follow it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 17 02:09:36 2014 No.1343293 >>1336139 not at all game of the decade when it was released m8

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 17 02:14:07 2014 No.1343312 I might be a massive faggot but I like all the 2D Zeldas better. 3D doesn't feel right to me.

Anonymous Fri Jan 17 02:14:07 2014 No.1343313

>>1342093
It doesn't really matter at all. Young people are completely welcome to enjoy the experiences too.

I hate how this board has such a strong opposition to youth. It's the one thing I've been seeking all my life. Even when I was 18. Hell, even when I was much younger than that. I can't understand how anyone could actually be against it.

Anonymous Fri Jan 17 02:47:10 2014 No.1343372

>>1343313
It's not so much an opposition to youth itself so much as an opposition to youngster smartasses trying to push their opinion despite not beinged interested in getting a contextual or historical understanding of old games, and just viewing them through a modern game industry prism

Anonymous Fri Jan 17 03:29:26 2014 No.1343427

>>1343372
That's really mostly imaginary. It's a way of saying, "you don't agree with my views, so you're automatically a child who can't understand." Or at least that's every single instance I've ever seen on /vr/.

Some people really didn't like popular things back in the day, or at least didn't like them as much as others. And they weren't necessarily just being contrarians or hipsters. So many people find it imperceptible that another person could have different tastes even when it comes to things everyone likes.

That said, even the traits of games largely aren't objective and come down to opinion. Music, atmosphere, depth of combat... it all really depends on what a person perceives it as in the end. When you see everyone in agreement, of course someone who disagrees is going to come by and challenge that and they're often being completely genuine, and not "lacking context", in doing so.

Anonymous Fri Jan 17 03:33:27 2014 No.1343429

>>1343427
That said, I don't see anything wrong with judging games against a modern context. Obviously not literally, like "Pacman is an objectively shit game because it's a minigame in GTA and therefore GTA is everything Pacman was and more." But to say, for example, that Goldeneye hasn't aged well at all and might not have necessarily been as good as we thought it was at the time is not so unreasonable.

Anonymous Fri Jan 17 03:42:26 2014 No.1343437

>>1343429
>But to say, for example, that Goldeneye hasn't aged well at all and might not have necessarily been as good as we thought it was at the time is not so unreasonable.

Of course not. Not everybody loved Goldeneye back in the day. But I'd like to hear criticism of the gameplay itself, not just retrospective nitpicking like "hurrr lacks dual analogs, doesn't run at 1 trillion FPS like quake does on my GTX Titan, doesn't have online multiplayer". Which is the only kind of criticism I've seen of the game on /vr/.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 17 04:34:29 2014 No.1343478 >>1339508 werent they planning on hyrule field having cliffs and a bunch of other intricacies but couldnt because epona was too frustrating to ride around all of it or something

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 17 05:40:47 2014 No.1343557 File: 63 KB, 1311x340, oot is not rated.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1336751 Thanks for that wonderful post, I screencapped it for future use whenever someone mentions OoT being overrated or whatever.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 17 05:54:17 2014 No.1343567 File: 73 KB, 198x177, 1281958274204.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1343557

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/vr/ - Retro Games