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/vr/ - Retro Games


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1308787 No.1308787 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

What does /vr/ think about the MSX Metal Gear games?

They are almost never talked about due to the popularity of the MGS series and I feel they are very underrated games. I only played them last year in fact and see them as better then most of the MGS series.

So what is the consensus on MG and MG2 Solid Snake /vr/?

>> No.1308789

>>1308787
Solid Snake was pretty damn awesome.

>> No.1308792

>>1308789
One thing that really struck me about how great the games were last year is the soundtrack. Solid Snake now has one of my favorite video game ost of all time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsuDW2v_MuQ

Been wanting to make a thread on these games for awhile. Hope to see some posts when I get back. Feel free to post more of 2's amazing ost.

>> No.1308793

>>1308787
hatch and owl to think a guard it's night time
and to get the owl you need to get 2 eggs.
one of them hatches an inventory snake that eats all your rations and you can't do anything

a doctor who has the world's most insane chokehold on you and you gotta shoot rockets at your back to kill him, or run into your own grenades.

first metal gear fight is only bombing the things legs in the right order, you don't even see the rest of the thing.

they're silly as fuck, not that enjoyable unless you can endure stuff like that to see the games that started the MGS saga.

>> No.1308795

>can't see which ID card is needed for which door
Hooray!

>> No.1308798

>takes place in 1999
>Soviet Union still exists
>made in late 80s, early 90s so it's a write off
>still awaiting inevitable retcon

>> No.1308809

Thanks to MGS I thought it took place in the real world country of Zanzibar, and island of the cost of Tanzania, not some Outer Heaven expy in Central Asia.

>> No.1308818

>>1308787
>MG2
still the best.

>> No.1308842

>>1308793
You don't need to shoot rockets at madnar. All Metal Gear games are silly btw.
>>1308795
I agree with the keycard thing but that was the only really huge flaw in the games for me. MG2 fixed that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C99cdxsUa0Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddhXB7DaNpk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Fzho1mLDaI

>> No.1308848
File: 251 KB, 500x500, tumblr_mgqcshQWcI1rw70wfo1_500.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1308848

>> No.1309237

>>1308787
>They are almost never talked about due to the popularity of the MGS series
I think it has more to do with pretty much no one outside of Japan playing the games when they came out.

>> No.1309249

>>1309237
Yep. We didn't get an actual release of MSX MG until it got slapped on MGS3.

>> No.1309283

>Be 10-year-old me
>Think Metal Gear for NES is port of arcade game I love Heavy Barrel for some reason
>Disappointment
>Three years later
>Heavy Barrel NES is released when I already have a Genesis
>Disappointment

This experience turned me off the whole Metal Gear franchise, subconsciously. It's not even that I don't like stealth games because I love Tenchu and I can see that Metal Gear is a wicked cool franchise and I have both MSX versions, in English

Still can't get deep into it.

>> No.1309397

>>1308792
that it does
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKT5fdBY84o

>> No.1309657

>>1309283
Well that's your own stupid ass fault, not Metal Gear's.

>> No.1310721
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1310721

>>1308848
I hated how they replaced all the character portraits in the Subsistence version and rename some of the characters. Takes away from the 80s movie charm of the original and just make it feel more like an 2D MGS1 prototype.

Why was Natasha Marcova renamed anyway? They said it was because of the similarly named Nastasha Romanenko from MGS1, but they have no trouble with George Kessler.

>> No.1310751
File: 41 KB, 500x320, Snatchers.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1310751

>>1308787
I loved Snatchers.

>> No.1310763

>>1309237
>I think it has more to do with pretty much no one outside of Japan playing the games when they came out.

You're right and I have read MSX sold decently in some countries outside of the US. They were pretty much non existent in US.

The NES games are completely different so I would advise someone who wants to play these games to just either get them through MGS3 or play it on emulator.

>> No.1310832

>>1309657
When did I ever say it wasn't? I'm just sharing my Metal Gear experience. The only way I can play it is if I pretend I'm playing the awesomest adaptation of Ikari Warriors ever.

>> No.1310845

>>1310721
It might've given off a false implication that Natasha changed her marital status despite them being two different people.

>> No.1310940

>>1310832
I'm sorry, it's just that Metal Gear is very dear to me and I get a little butthurt when people say something about it that may seem disparaging.

>> No.1311185

>>1310763
Not a lot of people know how great a system it was. A lot of Japanese franchises got there start on it:
Bomberman
Bubble bobble
Pouyo pouyo
Goemon.
Just to name a few

>> No.1311197

>>1308792
>One thing that really struck me about how great the games were last year is the soundtrack. Solid Snake now has one of my favorite video game ost of all time.

MG1, 2 and MGS all I feel are part of the same "classic" series. MGS2 onwards are very different, aesthetics, in terms of plot, and especially music.

The "Metal Gear Classic" games used unique konami music that's much more "video gamey". The modern games uses much more forgetable music that emulates Hollywood scores. I pretty much can't recall much from the newer games besides the main themes, but all the music in the classic games really sticks out.

>> No.1311209

Now I love metal gear but 2 feels so over animated that many things were tough for me to master like the new crawl mechanic.

Not only that but the screens are so much busier with a huge hud

>> No.1311212

>>1308787
I played through the European Metal Gear on MSX back when /vr/ was first created. It's a good game, albeit it has clunky combat in the sections that recquire you to fight, and some of the bombable walls are far too cryptically hidden. But the stealth was really good, as was the variation in tools and weaponry.

What's insane is that this is a game from 1987! I don't know any game that's that old apart from Zelda that has such a modern design and holds up so well. Saying it's years ahead would be an understatement.

>> No.1311216

>>1311197
that's because the limited hardware meant they had to put all their effort into the melody because that was the only part of the music besides a very simple percussion.

>> No.1311218

>>1311197
I actually slightly disagree in that I feel it happened with MGS3 onwards.

I feel MGS2 has a lot of good songs in it. I love MGS3 snake eater theme though. Really well done main theme and probably best main theme of the series.

I know many hate this song but I like it a lot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5T_r2g_k80I

But since this is retro back on topic.

>video gamey

This is a huge reason why I wound up liking MG and MG2 so much. The MGS series gets too preachy and has a ton of cutscenes while MG and MG2 remembered to be a game above all. As I said I only played MG and MG2 last year. In fact I only ever played MGS and MGS2 for quite a while before I bought Legacy Collection. So MG and MG2 were a very pleasant surprise for me and I actually didn't expect I would like them better then most of the series.

Shame these games are so underrated imo. From what I have seen they are nearly identical on MSX except for what >>1310721
said.

>> No.1311220

>>1310940
"I was disappointed when I was 10 that it wasn't a port of Heavy Barrel" isn't really much of a crticism

>> No.1311226

>>1311212
>Saying it's years ahead would be an understatement.

It seriously must be for me to have been able to enjoy it enough to make the thread. Also love that loading screen.

>> No.1311975

I'm honestly surprised by how many Metal Gear fans tell people to skip the MSX games. MG1 was insanely fun for me and even today stands head-and-shoulders above the vast majority of the NES library.

>> No.1311979

>>1311975
>MG1 was insanely fun for me and even today stands head-and-shoulders above the vast majority of the NES library.
Pretty much. The only NES game to offer a similar experience is Snake's Revenge. Not even trolling, it's pretty underrated.

>> No.1311989

>>1308787
So far I'm almost to the end of this game. I've already beat the first one, and so far liking the second even more. It's so cool how everything in this game has a neat purpose. From playing the first one to playing the second this game feels well put together.

>> No.1312003

>>1311979
My goal is to play every single MG game (including non-canon) and beat them before GZ and TPP. I some how forgot the NES versions, I've heard good things about Snake's revenge though.

>> No.1312013

>>1312003
Metal Gear 1 on NES is just a shittier version of the MSX game because of technical limitations. Snake's Revenge is a completely original game though.

>> No.1312284

How can I play Metal Gear 2 Solid Snake? I need an emulator but i can't seem to find a suitable one

>> No.1312296

>>1312284
It's included with Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence, and every subsequent re-release of MGS3

>> No.1312342

>>1312296
You could always get the HD remakes depending on what system you have. MGS3 on that release has both the MSX versions of MG. Also MGS2 and PeaceWalker are a nice bonus.

>> No.1312496 [DELETED] 

>>1308792
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zDZtrSF4dA

>>1308842
MG2 had the same keycard issue. Same with MGS1 to a lesser extent. They finally got ride of it in MGS2. Still, I think it's an archaic gameplay mechanic we've all come to appreciate.

>>1311989
Well, it's Kojima. People often seem to focus on his obsession with cinematics and forget about his incredibly detailed game interfaces. Give Snatcher and Policenauts a shot if you have the time.

>> No.1312506

>>1308792
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zDZtrSF4dA

>>1308842
MG2 had the same keycard issue. Same with MGS1 to a lesser extent. They finally got ride of it in MGS2. Still, I think it's an archaic gameplay mechanic we've all come to appreciate.

>>1311989
Well, it's Kojima. People often seem to focus on his obsession with cinematics and forget about his incredibly detailed game mechanics. Give Snatcher and Policenauts a shot if you have the time.

>> No.1312547

I just recently beat them both on MSX (emulated, of course). Great games, and if you replay MGS1 you notice that it references MG2 quite a lot. It's practically MG3.

Gameplay-wise, MG1 was alright. It didn't age great, since the stealth mechanics are a little dated. It was obviously revolutionary for the time, but it almost feels like a puzzle or maze game.

MG2 was fucking awesome. It's like MGS in 2D. God damn, though, it's hard to get running in an emulator. It was probably the single hardest thing I've ever emulated (aside from Panzer Dragoon Saga, which eventually worked perfectly). For background, you have to manually apply a translation patch, then find one of very, very few emulators that make it work at full speed (it was released at the way end of the MSX2+ life cycle, and requires a late-gen model that runs FAR out of spec). Fucking nightmare to get running, though I eventually did.

>> No.1312552

>>1312547
Continued.

One other thing. MG2 had an outright absurd amount of backtracking. It was just ridiculous. Probably the worst I've seen, even worse than Metroid Prime.

It also had retarded puzzles. Just totally stupid shit. And the character photos were all '80s American action heroes (that was later retconned in the re-release with MGS3 -- photos changed).

But it was still good.

>> No.1312583

>>1312547
>It's practically MG3.
Geez, you think?

>> No.1312604

>>1312547
I'm not an experienced emulator, but MG1 and 2, in particular MG2, are probably my most emulated games over the years. I never noticed any particular difficulty emulating it, though maybe that's just relative.
Also, it's been a while since I downloaded it, but I'm sure versions that were already patched were quite common, as common as the original even.
Same with MG1 to a lesser extent, though I do remember having to patch it back when the re-translation first came out.

>> No.1312620

>>1312547
> God damn, though, it's hard to get running in an emulator. It was probably the single hardest thing I've ever emulated
I pretty much gave up trying to run it on a Mac. Bit the bullet and bought Subsistence, even though I already had Snake Eater.

>> No.1312691
File: 58 KB, 1920x1080, 1351918106348.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1312691

>>1312296
Pretty sure it's not part of the 3DS port.

>>1308792
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Br9gh9POAjE

>> No.1312712

>>1312691
>Pretty sure it's not part of the 3DS port.
It isn't (probably because MG1 and 2 were on the Japanese Wii VC lineup).

>> No.1312720

>>1312691
You know it's weird, it's also not in the Essentials collection either.

>> No.1312792
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1312792

>>1312720
Blame Konami's laziness on that one. It was in the Japanese 20th anniversary set along with Portable Ops.

>> No.1312901

>>1312792
I know I'm getting a little off topic with this question, but is Portable Ops canon? A lot of websites still agree it is although Kojima doesn't really acknowledge it anymore.

>> No.1312930
File: 21 KB, 300x785, MGS5_timeline.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1312930

>>1312901
It's probably broad strokes at this point since MPO is not included in the last few timelines, but the FOX Unit's rebellion is mentioned on the Truth timeline.
http://www.konami.jp/mg25th/truth/chronicles.html

I think only the basic plot outline is acknowledged by Kojima rather than the specific details, which is incidentally the extend of his involvement with MPO. The only thing certain id that some shit occurred in San Hyeronymo that Big Boss doesn't want to be remember.

>> No.1313209

Has anyone ever noticed the lack of drums in Metal Gear 2, the subsistence version? Or is it just me?

>> No.1313234

>>1311197
>MG1, 2 and MGS all I feel are part of the same "classic" series. MGS2 onwards are very different, aesthetics, in terms of plot, and especially music.

I agree with this assessment completely. MGS1 feels very much like a successor to MG2, but MGS2 feels like a new animal compared to MGS1.

>> No.1313492

>>1313234
Now I don't want to give kojima any credit for this since it was prolly unintentional but don't you think that feeling of difference actually accentuates the plot?

>> No.1313597

>>1313209
Probably just shitty emulation of the SCC sound chip.

>> No.1313694

>>1312930
So he acknowledges the basic outline but not the whole game. Makes sense I guess.

>> No.1313990

>>1313492
Yeah, a bit. MGS2 and onward feel much less "gamey" than MG, MG2, and MGS. Feel more story driven.

>> No.1314042
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1314042

>>1313694
Pretty much. He didn't write Portable Ops, he simply told his team to make a game set several years after MGS3 involving the downfall of FOX and the formation of FOX HOUND. The actual screenwriter of MPO was Gakuto Mikumo, a novelist.

>> No.1314057

I didn't happen to see anyone posting about how MGS is pretty much a 3D rehash of MG2.

>> No.1314062
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1314062

>>1314057
That's a common misconception. The original Metal Gear Solid is more than just a rehash of Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake. It borrows stuff from the original Metal Gear too.

>> No.1315692

>>1313990
MGS feels less gamey as well since it has a ton of cutscenes and surprisingly small amount of total enemies.

Its these MSX MG games that actually feel gamey. Which honestly is said to even say gamey when a video game should feel like a game in the first place.

>> No.1315693

>>1314042
I never knew pinhead made a cameo in an MGS game.

>> No.1315696

>>1315692
>said

meant to say sad.

>> No.1315729
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1315729

>>1315693
Yup, he was a bossfight, actually.

>> No.1315851

>>1315729
The MPO villains were cool as characters, but they were lame as actual bosses. Give me the AI weapons in Peace Walker any day.

>> No.1315913
File: 11 KB, 512x424, 486679-mgs_03.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1315913

>>1315851
Cool but that isn't retro. Back on topic.

>tfw punching grey fox in that minefield
>tfw grey fox life is nothing but pain and depression

>> No.1316495

>>1313234
It's kind funny you say that because MGS2 was an experimental joke on sequels by Kojima. I only saw Scream 2 for the first time in my life a year ago, and at the time I thought that if there were a movie that run with the same concept from the get-go to try and make a point about sequels, it was definitely Scream 2. Probably better movies play around with this idea, but you get the point.

It turned out to be a completely different beast though. I guess that's just Kojima playing mind games with the players and their expectations and coming up with whatever silliest thing he could think of to completely confuse the player. I read so many things about MGS2 and to this day, the amount of interpretation that exists about it is amazing. I don't think Kojima ever exceeded his creativity on the same level again, regardless of how the audience choose to classify it.

>> No.1316504

>>1316495
Wes Craven's clever like that. If you've never seen New Nightmare that's very much worth watching if you enjoy meta stuff.

>> No.1316549

>>1315729
Is he supposed to be psychic or something?

>> No.1316619
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1316619

>>1315913
This was a cool boss fight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2pa70b65BQ

>starts at 8:00

>> No.1316630
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1316630

>>1316619
Metal Gear 2 actually had quite a lot of interesting bosses. I could imagine them becoming fan favorites if the game was ever remade.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unlgIwJ6M_4

>starts at 8:44

>> No.1316638
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1316638

>>1316630
MGS has a similar fight to this bossfight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2-22zK1fDs

>starts about 30 seconds in

>> No.1316649
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1316649

>>1316638
Metal Gear boss here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZxIJQ-0_2E

>> No.1316674
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1316674

>>1316495
agreed

MGS2 also has a ton of people having different opinions about it because of that fact.

A part of me wishes Kojima would make an MGS game like MG and MG2. Minimal cutscenes with some more gameplay.

I used to like the older top down style more in MG, MG2, MGS, MGS2 and MGS3. MGS3 did change it in subsistence though to include both and I got to agree with it for that game. I feel a part of Metal Gears uniqueness is now gone in the newer ones because of the change.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0CR9Iuvg8M

>3:15

>> No.1316742

>>1316549
Not really. That was Utsula, the silver-haired chick. Python had a freezing gimmick.

>> No.1316786

>>1316674
>A part of me wishes Kojima would make an MGS game like MG and MG2. Minimal cutscenes with some more gameplay.
Isn't that what Kojima is trying to do with The Phantom Pain.

>> No.1316972

>>1316786
Well yes but I also would like the top down style and more enclosed metroid style environments.

What I mean is more linear but your still open to going through the level how you want. Think big shell how there is no order in disarming the bombs. Shadow moses your also going through a linear but connected area.

>> No.1317142

Their "Good" games But by hell are they cryptic and every conversation in the game is trolling you. I don't even think it would have been possible to complete these back in the day

>> No.1317151
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1317151

>>1317142
Casual. The codec in both games tell you everything you need to know to clear them.

>> No.1317678
File: 101 KB, 500x500, mgsgb.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1317678

Don't forget this one, even rarer that anhone talks about it. Plays like the MSX games and has everything you'd expect from the Metal Gear games, from things like the long codec calls, cardboard boxes, the sad sob stories after you defeat bosses, etc. This one is pretty much forgotten about because it's non-canon and happens in an alternate timeline, taking place 7 years after MG in a timeline where MG2 actually didn't happen. Also seems MGS doesn't happen later on because you meet Mei Ling for the first time here as well. It's a pretty good game, not a throwaway GBC title by any means.

>> No.1317691

Probably gonna get a lot of shit for this but I honestly hated the first Metal Gear. Even on the MSX it was still not that great despite the amazing legacy it left. That being said Metal Gear 2 was fantastic.

>> No.1317730

>>1317678
true, it is really a masterpiece, taking into account the fact that it has almost the same hardware limitations than the nes games

>> No.1317738

>>1317142
This from the board that thinks Castlevania II is impossible to complete without help.

Lol.

>> No.1317761
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1317761

>>1317738
Pretty much. For a board about older videogames, /vr/ is almost as casual as regular /v/.

>> No.1318460

>>1317678
I never knew they made metal gear solid for gbc. I thought ghost babel was the only one.

I missed out on a ton of gbc and advanced games as a kid.

>> No.1318629

>>1318460
>I never knew they made metal gear solid for gbc. I thought ghost babel was the only one.
Ghost Babel is Metal Gear Solid on the GBC. It's just a regional name for the same game.

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