Romance in video games

[Anonymous No.1252314]

What does /vr/ think about romances in video games? Personally I'd like to see well written/executed romances in video games but usually they are done poorly. Here are some examples of this:

>RPGs trying to have romance as one of their main plot points
Usually these games go through ridiculously unbelievable shit in order to force the couples in them together and most of the time your (usually predetermined) love interest is some bland and/or annoying teenage girl who isn't interesting in any way, only exist as eventual love interest for the main character and usually has no real reason to give a fuck about the main character. FFVIII is off the charts example of doing this sort of romance wrong.

>Mass Effect, dating sims and other games handling their romances in similar way
Choosing certain dialogue options and hoping to see one or two sex scene(s) as a reward for it is far-cry from being meaningful romance not to mention said romance is usually over after those scenes. Romance in RPGs that use this type of relationship system really feels stapled on and only seems to be there as fan-service and romance in visual novels is almost always ruined by terrible cliches and predictable plot development.

>Harvest Moon like games
Talking to and/or bringing same item to someone everyday until you have brought enough of them for someone to love you really isn't any kind of romance. Still this type of romance works reasonably well within the games that use it and it doesn't feel horribly forced or detract from the characters like the aforementioned RPG romances tend to be. However the problems mentioned under visual novels always seem to be present here as well.

[Anonymous No.1252315]

>pointless relationship systems
By these I mean the ones where there is a relationship system in the game but you are still locked on to a predetermined love interest in the end no matter what you do during the game. I mean doesn't this take away the point of having the relationship system in there in the first place? FFVII and FFX are perfect examples of this.

>uninteresting love interests
This problem is especially common in the Japanese games which almost always feature the exact same stereotypes as the love interests. If there is only one predetermined one it's always some bland young girl you are supposed to find cute and if there are many potential ones the choice is always between a shy girl, an overly feminine girl, a tomboy and a serious girl who only cares about her work or studies and these same stereotypes have been used for fucking decades now. That said western games have their own stereotypes that have been done to death.

So what does /vr/ think of romances in video games? Has it ever been done right? Can it be done right?
Are there games that feature somewhat unusual romances like ones with notable age-gap or ones where the main character does NOT get the girl in the end?
Is it just me but are most of the better romances in video games the ones which doesn't feature the main character(s) in them?
Should game developers simply stop trying to put romance in video games since it rarely seems to be done well and sometimes just make the games featuring them worse than they would have been without it?

Finally I'm aware some games I mentioned aren't /vr/ but they are only there as examples.

[Anonymous No.1252567]

Dating sims are a type of RPG. You schedule your day and build up stats in order to woe partners. Don't confuse them with adventures/visual novels.

The only thing I really dislike about romance in video games is when it's forced. I can't bring myself to care about somebody just because the writer expects me to do it.

[Anonymous No.1252609]

>>1252314


I like my romance in games when it's more subtle and implied. Huge romantic moments in FFVIII and FFX actually take away from the games for me. My eyes roll back into my skull, and I have a hard time getting back into it.

Like, I thought Crono/Marle was cute, and there was hardly anything there. Just a few conversational bits. But, I enjoyed that more than almost the whole of Squall/Rinoa.

Romance just always seems to highlight faults in writing/translation, that I could otherwise ignore.

[Anonymous No.1252695]

I thought that the romance in PS:T was done relatively tastefully. It didn't go full fanservice at the very least.
Final Fantasy IX was alright, too. The love interest played a big role in the plot and wasn't simply reduced to being the love interest (even though I personally don't like the character very much) and the romance didn't seem forced.

But I'm hard pressed to think of a lovestory in a videogame that I really enjoyed.
Oh yeah, not retro, but MGS3. It's even an unhappy ending.

[Anonymous No.1252785]

OP is a girl who needs to play YU-NO

[Anonymous No.1252823]

>>1252785
>Yu-No
mah nigga

[Anonymous No.1253606]

>>1252314
Romance is only done well in some VNs
Otherwise I say dont bother with it

[Anonymous No.1253617]

Albion has a pretty nice romance between two party members, a mute and an alien cat lady.
It's not relevant to the story but the gameplay in a way as the couple leaves the party for a while to do their stuff and just there to flesh out the characters. It's not annoying and awkward but rather tastefully delivered and believable even if it's just a simple fantasy explanation (special bond after learning he can telepathically communicate with her by touching her thing) and not really explored in detail.
One of the more memorable scenes in the game.

[Anonymous No.1253625]

>>1252785
Why not some retro otome game like Angelique?

[Anonymous No.1253840]

>>1252567
I could have covered many more genres and sub-genres on my posts but I mainly wanted to cover most of the things video games romances usually do wrong like the forcedness of them which is the most common shortcoming in them.

>>1252609
>Huge romantic moments in FFVIII and FFX actually take away from the games for me
This is one of the main points I wanted to point out and wanted hear OPINIONS about. To use FFVIII as an example I think the majority of us agree that the game could be improved a lot by simply having a better forced love interest than Rinoa in it or by completely removing the romance sub-plot from it all-together.

>>1252695
>PS:T
Apparently I'm a dipshit since I'm not sure what game you are referring with this but I agree about FFIX's romance being alright. Still I wouldn't call it good and the one between Steiner and Beatrix...

>>1252785
Sorry to disappoint but no and I don't think so.

>>1253606
It really seems that way especially when more unusual romances are involved but once again the romances in VNs are usually ruined by having exact same stereotypes they have used for decades as the potential love interests.

>>1253617
Never played Albion, should I try it out? Is it a good game outside the potentially good and memorable romance example you mentioned?

>>1253625
2girly4me

I probably should have also posted some examples of video game romances done well like the Darkness (which is not /vr/) and Lufia 2 averting most of the common problems in (j)RPG romances but I more importantly I wanted to raise the question about why video games seem to be bad at handling romance and hoping see some examples it being done right.

[Anonymous No.1253898]

I don't know OP, I actually love the romance part of FFVIII and it's my favorite thing about the game.

[Anonymous No.1253901]

>>1253840
>having exact same stereotypes they have used for decades as the potential love interests.
What relevance does that hold for retro games?

You covered dating sims, but in the wrong way. They aren't about picking dialog options, that's a fairly small part of the simulation.
Play some real dating sim like Tokimeki Memorial or Pia Carrot.

PS:T = Planescape Torment

[Anonymous No.1253924]

>>1252314
The first is an example of bad writing, while the latter (dating sim elements) are examples of sometimes unengaging gameplay mechanics. The two are completely unrelated.

Since this is video games, only gameplay mechanics are truly relevant. Now, video game mechanics are always necessarily abstract, so a good romance gameplay system must be an abstract systems that is symbolic of a sexual relationship, much like stat growth is symbolic of personal growth, learning the microgameplay (controls, physics) is symbolic of physical prowess, and learning the stages is symbolic of learning the world.

A sexual relationship consists of peer pressure, empathy and sexual instints. Satisfying the sexual drive has long before been metaphorized in the (1) activity of a hunt, and seduction is commonly seen as a (2) siege. Love is seen as almost-magnetic atraction, a pre-destined (3) reunification of a whole. (4) Rivalry is self-explanatory. I see a possible romantic-themed gameplay mechanic resonating with these four metaphors.

Hunting/gathering games: Monster Hunter? Pokemon? Collect-a-thons?
"Siege" games: dungeon crawlers?
"Reunification"-themed games: puzzlers?
Interpersonal rivalry: fighing games?

[Anonymous No.1253941]

>>1253617
>special bond after learning he can telepathically communicate with her by touching her thing
What kind of thing? Her shoggoth or something?

[Anonymous No.1253945]

>>1253606
Romance is also occasionally done well in novels, short stories, poetry, stage drama, cinema, opera, songwriting, none of which are video games.

[Anonymous No.1253954]

I liked the romance in Eternal Blue. While the girl is a weird icy space alien, its still established pretty early that she likes the main character. And both of them are likable by the player. And its not ridiculously overplayed. Those old games, thankfully, had space constrictions, and didn't have mountains of text to sift through (and not in a Tolstoy novel way; in a trite animu dialog way).

I find shit like Biowares interactive romances to be weird. And any visit to a Bioware website will show that the kind of people who do like it are weird. Well, downright creepy.

[Anonymous No.1253973]

>>1253945
This is the main reason I have even bothered to make this thread and the ones I made on /v/. Every media except video games has constantly been able to do romance well for ages. The only reason I didn't start these threads by asking why vidya romances sucks compared to ones in books and movies is because if I did that the only response to it would have been people bringing up TWILIGHT and completely ignoring everything else.

>>1253954
>visit to a Bioware website will show that the kind of people who do like it are weird. Well, downright creepy.
You don't say? Pic related.

[Anonymous No.1254014]

>>1253840
>This is one of the main points I wanted to point out and wanted hear OPINIONS about. To use FFVIII as an example I think the majority of us agree that the game could be improved a lot by simply having a better forced love interest than Rinoa in it or by completely removing the romance sub-plot from it all-together.

I feel like such a neckbeard for writing this, but I'm fond of the theory that Rinoa used her sorceress wooing powers to turn Squall into her knight, like what Ultimecia did with Seifer.

[Anonymous No.1254021]

>>1253973
>her sweat's a drug and natural performance enhancer

[Anonymous No.1254020]

>>1254014
Meh, if you aren't writing massive essays and fanfiction about it, its quite reasonable for someone who otherwise enjoyed the game to try to make sense of the mess of a story.

[Anonymous No.1254045]

>>1253901
I admit I didn't cover visual novels that well and that I apparently haven't played the "real" ones like the examples you provided but I remember playing shitty hentai games in early 2000's and they were literally only about dialogue choices, reading the dialogue that followed and then hoping you made the right choices to satisfy the mysterious gods of hentai to see a sex-scene as a reward for it. I also played another game around that time Princess Maker 2 which to my understanding plays like the "real" dating sims you mentioned despite not really being a dating simulator or a game centered around romance in the first place. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

As for the stereotypes and retro games they were already in use in them. For example think about the options you have in Harvest Moon games or the shitty hentai games I just mentioned. These same stereotypes have been in use in Japanese media since the 80's where Japanese games then adopted them from and still use them to this day. Apparently they still seem to appeal to Japanese youth meaning they are not going away either.

Finally am I the only one who thinks video has the potential to do romance better than movies, book and other media because it's a much more interactive than they are? But this potential seems to be held back by bad writing and the fact video game romances still seem to be generally targeted to 13 to 17 year olds despite average age of gamers nearing 30 nowadays.

[Anonymous No.1254048]

>>1254014
You mean this?

[Anonymous No.1254208]

>>1254045
A true visual novel has no choices or other gameplay elements. It's just script presented in some way.
Most so called visual novels include simple choices for dialogs or interaction and are more appropriately named adventures.
Sometimes you will find them divided depending on whether text is superimposed on the screen or presented in a box at the bottom.

Princess Maker and dating sims both fall into the area of life simulations/raising games.

Another concept is that of galge/girl games which can be interpreted as any game with a heavy focus on female characters. There is no restriction to a specific type of gameplay.
Eroge/hentai games are for most part galge but not every galge has adult content.

[Anonymous No.1254243]

>>1254048
Oh wow that's even more retarded than the squall is dead one.