/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.1230397]

Anyone watching Spoony's interview with Richard Garriott? It's amazing seeing all the background information on the Ultima series.
I guess Ultima discussion.

[Anonymous No.1230446]

I wasted too much time on this Spoony shit and I think I've hear most of LB's stories by now.

[Anonymous No.1230461]

instantly recognized ultima 2

what makes me sad is that these proto-games like ultima aren't still being made

I don't mean that there should be another ultima, we already have those. They're called dragon warrior and final fantasy.

I mean that we can't think of a new type of proto-game, that leads to an all new genre. The golden time of this particular hobby has passed.

I don't know about you, but additional immersion in the form of virtual reality is irrelevant to me. It's the content and the novelty of something completely new that is missing

[Anonymous No.1230465]

I'm STILL trying to figure out the best version of Ultima 3 to play. I discovered there's a SMS version that I'm seriously considering since I love Sega and rare carts but someone told me the PC-98 versions are better. What's the truth?

[Anonymous No.1230470]

>>1230461
You need to play more Indie games. You'll never see games like that with major releases or from big studios. They're just not smart investments.

[Anonymous No.1230468]

>>1230446
I was just saying that those that haven't might want to check it out. Give a nice insight on the background of Ultima. I wasn't trying to get a discussion on Spoony's insanity.
>>1230461
It's actually Dragon Quest and it plays more like Wizardry in my opinion. At least the battle system. And Richard Garriott is making a new Ultima so you might enjoy that unless you are thinking more like the early Ultima games with tiles instead.

[Anonymous No.1230474]

Exodus is a malevolent computer, he isn't actually the child of Mondain and Minax.

Boom, 30 year old spoilers!

The best version is the version you're enjoying? Which is almost certainly none of them. If you're going to force yourself through an ultima game, 2/4/7 are the ones to shoot for

[Anonymous No.1230476]

>>1230465
I could only get through Ultima 1 of the first 3. 2 was a pain and I just couldn't get into 3 for some reason. However 4-7 (both parts) are fantastic.

[Anonymous No.1230478]

>>1230468
>>1230470

"it's actually called dragon quest"
"you need to play more indie"

are you guys for real
the assumption that you are the steward of some inaccessible knowledge is pretty comical

[Anonymous No.1230481]

Yeah, it's interesting.

LB says that the hardware for old games disappears and he has an Apple computer for playing his old games. This is why emulation is useful for preservation. DOSbox is like the best thing ever. There's no Apple computer equivalent?

>>1230397

Should link to them:
http://www.youtube.com/user/SpoonyOne/videos

[Anonymous No.1230482]

>>1230474
2? Way play 2? It's most likely the worst out of the first 7. If anything he should play 1 just to see the game in the beginning then skip to 4 and play until 7.

[Anonymous No.1230490]

>>1230482

Because ultima 2 is "chrono trigger zero"

I'll be the first to say it-and I'm right

Time travel, time doors, a primitive world, 2 versions of the 'modern world,' a desolate future, and a mystical age that doesn't align with any well known time periods

It's a 1:1 ratio on most of the major story concepts

[Anonymous No.1230496]

>>1230490

oh god I just googled this and it turns out that this spoony person (dont know who that is) already pointed this relationship out

but for all we know he could have gotten it from me, since I pointed this out years ago

its irrelevant anyway, I dont listen to other people and it's correct, that's the salient point

[Anonymous No.1230501]

>>1230478
>Lamenting that "proto-games" are not still being made
>Smugly dismissing Indie games completely as if you could have possibly played them all already
If you're claiming that there are no independent developers who are currently creating games with entirely novel approaches then I suspect you are only appreciating the groundbreaking games of the past through the lens of hindsight. Helping to evolve the scene is all about appreciating what is new and innovative but that's way off topic.

>>1230476
My first RPG was the NES version of Ultima 3 and I got frustrated with it but then later I discovered it actually has major problems that make it much harder than it should be so I'd like to tackle a proper version. but also get the best aesthetics possible.

[Anonymous No.1230504]

>>1230465
I know there's a great SMS version of 4 but I've never heard of one for 3.
PC-98 looks nice but I haven't played it myself.
http://wiki.ultimacodex.com/wiki/Computer_Ports_of_Ultima_III
I didn't like the FM Towns version that much since it laked the original music.
The patched IBM version is pretty solid, as are the others I tried. Even the NES version isn't as terrible as the sequels.
The unpatched IBM version is the only thing that should be avoided.
The Mac version seems interesting but I don't really want to emulate a modern Mac to try it out.

All ports I played suffered from the inventory management.

[Anonymous No.1230506]

>>1230461
There's Excelsior Phase 1 Lysandia, a rather old faux retro game.

[Anonymous No.1230510]

>>1230461
>proto game
Minecraft
Dota

[Anonymous No.1230521]

well at least one person attempted to list some new proto games

and I'll concede those are good points

but I think you know, dota is just hyper-casual warcraft 3, with strict gameplay restrictions. the rules about what you can get away with are pretty unchanging, you can usually predict how something will go based on pretty obvious cues, and there's way too much "pve" elements mixed in, the npc mobs should not exist in a competitive game, or they should play some role beyond that of a static resource

minecraft is lego, there's no real survival or exploration element since darkness compels you to dig in early and often. its a gametype that could be massively improved, which is promising

[Anonymous No.1230524]

>>1230490
The story and setup for 2 is pretty cool but the gameplay is extremely horrible. They removed several good points of 1 and introduced annoying shit instead.

>>1230474
5 and 6 shouldn't be missed. Black Gate was a step down in my eyes.
Underworld is an important game by itself even though it's not closely related to the rest.

[Anonymous No.1230527]

>>1230481
There are several Apple II emulators. You can try to play the first 5 Ultima games in them if you like to deal with floppy changing and the artifacted graphic.

Did he say anything about engine remakes like Exult?

[Anonymous No.1230545]

Can people list the best versions to play each Ultima. I got the Ultima collection on GOG a while ago but haven't touched it. Are they the best with mods or are there better versions for each game?

[Anonymous No.1230568]

>>1230545
1+2: FM Towns
4: xu4 or SMS
6: nuvie
7 BG+SI: exult
8: Pentagramm
9: Beautiful Britannia

For ther rest get the Ultima patcher to fix some problems and shortcomings of the gog versions.

[Anonymous No.1231145]

>>1230397

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT4-B7Kl1WA

This vid pretty much goes:

>Lord British: Interesting thing about game development
>Noah: hurr durr

[Anonymous No.1231281]

>>1230465
The PC-98 version is missing Other as a gender,

[Anonymous No.1231303]

[Anonymous No.1231357]

>>1231145
I'll point out the bit at 1:18 for a brief intro, but not thorough explanation if you've ever wondered about those fringes of color you see on Apple // graphics like in OP's pic

[Anonymous No.1232401]

Ultima V looks a bit nicer on the PC-98 compared to the usual 16/32 bit ports but it has no English option.

[Anonymous No.1234181]

I was just playing Ultima: Quest of the Avatar for the NES. It's a neat game, though I don't know what the hell I'm supposed to do. Accordingly, my character is a Bard, and he died a lot. He also beat up the guy with leprosy and other NPCs, including some clown.

[Anonymous No.1234235]

>>1234181
You're not supposed to play the NES version.
Get the free DOS version and play it with xu4.
http://xu4.sourceforge.net/download.php
If want to play on a console, get the SMS version.

Read the manual.
Talk with everyone.
Be virtuous.
Lord British will heal you.

[Anonymous No.1234239]

>>1234235
>You're not supposed to play the NES version.

Why not? Is it missing something?

[Anonymous No.1234250]

>>1234239
Ultima just doesn't translate well to console.

[Anonymous No.1234256]

>>1234239
They removed vital aspects of the game like the dialog system and made other weird choices like changing the combat system or making encounters unpredictable.
They turned a groundbreaking RPG into a Dragon Quest clone.
http://wiki.ultimacodex.com/wiki/Console_Ports_of_Ultima_IV

>>1234250
The SMS version begs to differ.

[Anonymous No.1234268]

>>1234256
So basically Ultima 4 NES is basically an entirely different game? Still though, I want to play the NES version (think of how Wii U owners would die for crappy ports of games), because I kinda find it amusing. I never played Dragon Quest. Is the progression roughly the same as the original, or is it entirely different?

[Anonymous No.1234279]

>>1231145
This is why I can't stand to watch "interviews" like this.

>Shitty interviewer is obviously in over his head
>Still insists on trying to sound intelligent and get a word in
Maybe I should start chopping up videos like this and re-uploading them with the drooling retards clipped out or silenced.

(GDC Vault does it right - they stick a programmer or designer at a podium and let them talk for 45 minutes, and then take questions.)

[Anonymous No.1234425]

>>1234279
>they stick a programmer or designer at a podium
Then you don't get those moments of rummaging through his notebooks and stuff and finding random bits of history and cool stories.

I wonder if I walked away from the video with something different than others here because I grew up playing those games as they came out. I played and programmed on an Apple //, so I understood what he talked about with 13 and 16 sector disks, or Apple's graphic characteristics. Though I'm surprised he didn't just write a tool to assist in drawing the tile graphics and calculating their hex values.

[Anonymous No.1234440]

>>1234279
I personally like Richard just rambling and talking about the different stuff that happened. Yeah it's a poor "interview" but I feel it's a nice little way to get some interesting on the background on him developing ultima.

[Anonymous No.1234461]

>>1234440
Richard Garriott is one man I would like to shake hands with. Astronaut, mansion owner, game developer, he's accomplished so fucking much that the sweat on his palms would probably give me special powers.

[Anonymous No.1234645]

Guess that was the last one. Pretty interesting from what I saw. Love when the developer talks about games they made years ago and the talks about the different ways they had to program long ago.

[Anonymous No.1237580]

>>1234268
No, the progression is the same, but many aspects of the game are simplified and "JRPG-ized."

Personally I fucking love it because it's pretty cool and novel to see a typical NES JRPG but all open-ended in the Ultima style. It's definitely worth a playthrough for novelty's sake, in my opinion.

[Anonymous No.1237670]

>>1237580
Ultima is far from open ended. You are usually free in the order to do things but the endgame will always turn out similar.

[Anonymous No.1237702]

>>1237670
I know, I've played them. Open-ended was probably not the best word to use, it's a bit late for me. But the ability to do your laundry list of save-the-world tasks in any order you please was rare in the old set of NES JRPGs. So I consider the NES Ultima: Warriors of Destiny to stand out a bit from its direct competitors on the platform for this reason, making it worth checking out, even though it's undeniably dumbed down from the original version. That's my point.

[Anonymous No.1237721]

I'm a huge Ultima fan, so I went ahead and bought the SNES Ultima VII cartridge when I found it.

Wow is it shitty. No party, no murder scene, no sleep/job schedule, ridiculously difficult combat system, 'elemental' weapons...I'm glad I played the PC version first.

pic topical, just started another U6 game...

[Anonymous No.1237729]

>>1237702
Maybe that's why I really like the first 3 Dragon Quests. It kind of have a linearity to it but you can do them however you please.

[Anonymous No.1237741]

>>1237702
Ultima V on the NES has more problems than being cut down.

[Anonymous No.1237827]

>>1237721
The combat in the PC version was terrible and you had elemental weapons like the lightning whip or the flame sword.
The murder scenes were pointless gore since you had no way of solving them before the finale.
Schedules were always a bit of a bother but at least you could wake up sleepers in 6 and 7.

[Anonymous No.1237846]

>>1230461
the days of making games being a hobby is probably over.
But creating whole new genres...thats a good point and yet i'm drawing a blank of what it could be!

[Anonymous No.1237849]

>>1237846
A lot of good ideas have already been made. In the 70s you had a blank table but since then things have spread out and grown so there's less ground that's not yet covered.

[Anonymous No.1237876]

I guess though Ultima was just richard putting his dungeon and dragons games onto a computer.

I wonder what the last "new genre" was for video games? interactive movie type games???

[Anonymous No.1240490]

>>1237580
I'm the same guy you replied to.

Just now I realized you have to talk to the king to level up. I also managed to get my party up to 4, though the Sheppardess is admittedly useless. Unfortunately I'm a Bard, but at least he can get -some- useful weapons. I also have a Paladin and a Tinker, the infamous "Julius".

I found out a trick to this game that would probably screw up one of your values. You can sell your weapons back at full price, but the shopkeepers will generally want half price. Right now I'm grinding money so that I can get the Tinker a Bow, and after that, give the Tinker and Paladin a +2 Axe.

How do weapon and armor strengths work? The more expensive an item is, the better it is? Unfortunately the status menu doesn't tell you much, probably because this was a 1985 RPG, probably because the porters didn't care.

The game's awfully primitive for 1990; Ultima Exodus even moreso.

[Anonymous No.1240512]

>>1237741
Warriors of Destiny? It's generally considered to be a bad game by NES standards, no less by Ultima standards. Even the ancient Exodus or Avatar were better games.

>>1237702
Warriors of Destiny isn't even a JRPG; it was developed by Origin themselves. They should've outsourced it to the Japs again, they probably would've done a better job. Exodus was by Newtopia Planning (even then, no one knows who really made it), Avatar was by Infinity (same folks behind Battle of Olympus), and Warriors was by Origin.

[Anonymous No.1240534]

>>1240490
>How do weapon and armor strengths work? The more expensive an item is, the better it is?
Ranged weapons (Sling, Bow, Crossbow, Magic Axe, Magic Bow, Magic Wand) do less damage than similarly prized melee weapons but are still worth it since you can rarely fight on a full front and even then it's better to concentrate your attacks.

[Anonymous No.1240540]

>>1240534
Talking more about the NES version, which allows for both melee and ranged weapons.

For example? Is the Ring a better type of armor than chain mail? Is a +2 Sword better than a +1 Axe, despite being cheaper?

[Anonymous No.1242973]

I am excited about the new spiritual successor to Ultima. Lord British's Ultimate RPG: Shroud of the Avatar.

I'm currently playing Ultima 7.