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/vr/ - Retro Games

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1190057 No.1190057 [Reply] [Original]

So i just finished Final Fantasy 1 for the first time, and I'm confused about the time loop. Garland said that you killed him 2000 years in the future and that the four Fiends sent him back 2000 years. In the past, he sent the fiends that far in the future. But the sages said that some of the Fiends have been around longer than 300 years. Also, do the Light Warriors killing Garland's Chaos form break the time loop? Because on the way, you destroy the Fiends again, so Garland has nothing to send to the future, but what does killing him again have to do with it?

Or is this just the usual time travel horseshit I shouldn't think too hard about?

>> No.1190086

>Or is this just the usual time travel horseshit I shouldn't think too hard about?

Yes.

You could assume that as time goes on, the fiends summon back a dark knight from the future. Because of his super dark nature/destiny, he slowly becomes a minor deity, and then uses his power to send the fiends to his timeline to get revenge on the world.

Defeating the fiends in the present banishes them to their original timeline (The past) and lights your orbs. The power of the orbs allows you to warp to the past Temple of Fiends, finishing off the four fiends once and for all. Finally, you must destroy Garland again, and this time there are no fiends to help him by whisking him off to the past.

Theoretically, you probably could've just killed the fiends in the present and the world would've been fine, but I'm sure Garland would've sent them back again after they recovered.

>> No.1190089

The loops could only be broken if Garland beat the Light Warriors before they went back in time or the Light Warriors beat Chaos after they went back in time.

Chaos had the power to bring the fiends back to life.

Every single loop prior to the final one had Garland and the fiends being defeated, but the Light Warriors losing to Chaos.

The ending to FF has the cycle completely broken because Chaos and the fiends are completely defeated in the past, and so there is never a chance for the loop to actually start.

>> No.1190092

>>1190089
So do you think dying to Garland at the start would've prevented all this? Would the fiends have chosen the light warriors to pull back instead?

>> No.1190094

>>1190092

Depends on how the Chaos thing works. They seem to have made Garland into Chaos, and it's entirely possible they could've done that when he was dead anyway.

>> No.1190101

>>1190092
>Light warriors die to Garland early on.
>The four sages pull the heroes back to the past.
>The light warriors go through the past versions of the dungeons they would've normally went through, overcoming trials by defeating the primordial orb guardians.
>Their final goal is to be sent into the future to fight Garland (Now Chaos) and his evil new future.
>It's actually revealed that Princess Sara is pulling all the strings and is the real endboss if you do the optional sidequests.

It's a shame I can't write a rom hack to save my life.

>> No.1190106 [DELETED] 

>>1190089
So did the Light Warriors reincarnate every time they died against Chaos or something?

>> No.1190112

>>1190089
So every time the Light Warriors were killed by Chaos, did they reincarnate or something? Because otherwise the loop wouldn't loop.

>> No.1190116

>>1190112
There might've just been new light warriors every time. I mean, the job qualifications aren't very exact.

>> No.1190129

It's kind of sad when Dissidia handles FF1's story better than the original game.

>> No.1190140

>>1190129
I heard FF2 had a much better and coherent story, but I haven't played through to confirm.

>> No.1190142

>>1190112

Nope. Same ones. That's what makes it a time loop. It's the same four light warriors each time. Or at least that was the implication.

>> No.1190149

>>1190140

You shouldn't, FF2 is shit.

>> No.1190159

>>1190129

Dissidia also has the benefit of a lot more resources. A properly done FF1 retelling would be pretty interesting, but it's unlikely to ever happen.

It would also probably suck.

>> No.1190185

>>1190159
It's only been remade a billion times, none of which added anything to make the game more interesting. GBA added some shit dungeons, PSP added a dungeon with a very powerful optional boss. Did they make the classes more interesting, give them new abilities, remove shitty game design parts like the giant's hallway and so on? Fuck no they didn't.

>> No.1190195

>>1190185

Hence why I said it's unlikely to be done properly.

A proper FF1 remake should fix all of the obnoxious bugs and some of the bad design aspects, and it should do more to differentiate the classes- particularly the physical classes.

Square clearly isn't planning to do that any time soon, and I doubt they ever will.

>> No.1190198

>>1190149
it's way better than FF1

>> No.1190208

>>1190057
>>1190086
>>1190089
After reading these posts I think it's funny how everyone singles out Final Fantasy VII for being convoluted.

>> No.1190214

>>1190208

FF7 wasn't convoluted, just badly translated.

>> No.1190215

>>1190214
Badly written, you mean.

>> No.1190220

>>1190215
>>1190214
Both, really.

>> No.1190286

>>1190149
I just played through the GBA remake, literally beating it within the hour, and I hafta say it's really not as bad as people make it out to be.
+'s, An actual story that is well told, and a feeling of achievement since your characters only progress in ways you progress them in
-'s, The level system is kinda broken, but in your favor. You basically become incredible at whatever you do, and eventually become an unstoppable behemoth. I beat the boss of the game in 3 fucking turns.
Also the game designers had this backwards notion that littering dungeons with empty rooms is clever level design. THERE'S 5 DOORS BUT ONLY ONE OF THEM ACTUALLY LEADS SOMEWHERE! THAT'S A CHALLENGE!
All in all I'm glad I played it, don't know if I'll ever play it again but I am considering playing the bonus content Soul of Rebirth on the GBA remake.

>> No.1190349
File: 18 KB, 736x495, lllvl1.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1190349

>>1190286
>Also the game designers had this backwards notion that littering dungeons with empty rooms is clever level design

That's a good thing, though.

>> No.1190356

>>1190349
Why? Why would there just be empty rooms EVERYWHERE?

>> No.1190376

>>1190356

Are you saying that, within these fantasy worlds, that architects of temple ruins and fortresses from thousands of years ago should lay out everything to make it as easy as possible for tresspassers to quickly get from point A to point B?

Or that thieves and poachers throughout all those years should leave those once-full rooms untouched out of common courtesy to not hurt your feelings?

>> No.1190383

>>1190376

Good game design sometimes disregards realism in favor of fun.

>> No.1190387

>>1190214
Nah, it just throws the curveball about Cloud's false memories really hard and not too well. The plot makes plenty of sense.

>> No.1190389

>>1190383

You're asking for linear dungeons.

Go fucking play Final Fantasy 10, it's more up your alley.

>> No.1190391

>>1190376
All I'm saying is it ain't fun. It's not like the rest of the game is realistic anyway.

>> No.1190392

>>1190387

That's one of the reasons why I say that it's bad translation. The translators dropped the ball on getting that across well.

>> No.1190404

>>1190389
Why are you so defensive and angry because I dislike a feature of a game?
OH NO, SOMEONE WITH A DIFFERENT OPINION? BETTER TELL THEM OFF!

>> No.1190409

>>1190389

There's a difference between 'linearity' and 'clusterfuck design'. 2 had a lot of clusterfuck.

>> No.1190428

>>1190404
>Why are you so defensive and angry because I dislike a feature of a game?

Because most games these days cater to simplistic casuals such as yourself. Role-playing games were meant to throw frustrations and hurdles in your way as much as possible, but these days they hold your hand and make it as difficult as possible to die, fail, or to otherwise become lost.

>> No.1190431

>>1190428

>Casuals

Mmhmm.

Yeah.

Okay.

I've concluded you're mad.

So I'll just go back to playing Ys now. Have fun being angry.

>> No.1190478

The rule of time travel is that it always works however the fuck it needs to in service of the story.

>> No.1190496

>>1190428
You're a liar and a pedophile. I could ask you to name ten examples of how they're "catering to casuals" and you wouldn't come up with JACK SHIT.

Do it. List ten examples of how games released in the last five years are catering to casuals.

And FYI: "Easy mode" as a difficulty setting doesn't count.

>> No.1190507

Just scrolling past this thread, are there seriously underage trying to defend modern jRPGs? They have got more casual just like every other genre out there trying to appeal to a wider lazier audience.

>> No.1190509

>>1190507
Do you know what you're talking about in general, or are you using "modern jRPG" to mean "modern Square".

>> No.1190514

>>1190507
You. See >>1190496, you can split the work between the two of you.

(PS everyone already knows that Atelier and Neptunia have become fanservice moeshit)

>> No.1190517

>>1190514
>Atelier
>become fanservice moeshit
Wasn't this series always like that? I haven't played any, but I've heard that the PS2 games were lower-selling anomalies.

>> No.1190520

>>1190509
yeah except when you say modern jRPG any retard is instantly going to think of shitty ass kingdom hearts. The ones you greasy neckbeard fagets are into aren't popular nobody has any fucking clue what kind of HARDKORE NERD RPGS you fagets are playing.

>> No.1190532

>>1190520
So you admit you don't know what you're talking about?

>> No.1190535

>>1190520
>shitty ass kingdom hearts
I'm gonna skin y-
>rest of post
8/10, you got me.

>> No.1190559

>>1190532
>>1190535
>underage thinks kingdom hearts is good

>> No.1190596

>>1190559
>Series that has seven games, has sold 20 million copies worldwide, universally-favorable reviews, including 36/40 from Famitsu which is notorious for harsh grading, several spinoffs, merchandise, a manga adaption that old very well, backed by notable professionals in the game's industry, and has won multiple awards is bad
We have a word for people like you. Retarded.

>> No.1190602

This is some high-efficiency trolling.

Anyway, I think I've worked out the basic plot:
>Chaos is banished/sealed away/whatever by the original heroes, starting the cycle
>Chaos isn't quite killed; he uses his remaining power to send the Fiends into the future to set things up while he recovers
>as the final stage of his plan he influences a local knight to bring the princess to his temple (to do some ritual that will presumably release him)
>a new set of Warriors shows up and kills the knight
>Chaos switches to his backup plan, bringing the knight back to the past so he can just possess him
>the Four Warriors travel back in time, where they take the place of the original warriors
>cycle repeats many times, with minor variations each iteration due to the Warriors changing each time (I'd say something about how this is actually a meta-reference to the fact that the player took many tries to get this far, but that's a bit of a stretch for a game from 1987)
>eventually, the Four Warriors are able to get past the Fiends and properly kill Chaos
As for Garland's role, he's just a local hero who happened to be in the vicinity of the Temple.

IIRC Origins/DoS adds text to a few places to make the plot a little clearer.

>> No.1190605

>>1190596
Yeah call of duty is the best bruh

>> No.1190607
File: 69 KB, 300x264, Waluigi Get Out.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1190607

>>1190605
I like how you didn't refute my point in any way and just assumed I play Call of Duty instead. Leave /vr/.

>> No.1190612
File: 146 KB, 625x626, 800[2].png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1190612

>> No.1190617

>>1190612
The more he shitposts the longer his ban.

>> No.1190628

>>1190607
I refuted your point moron you could say the exact same thing about call of duty. Sorry I had to say it straight out I shouldn't have given kingdom hearts fans so much credit.

Assassins Creed/Skyrim/CoD/Kingdom Hearts/Whatever the fuck else

All critically acclaimed pieces of shit loved by underage morons such as yourself. You need to leave /vr/.

>> No.1190705

>>1190559
>>1190520
Why are you bringing up PS2 games that no one mentioned besides you?

>> No.1190719

>>1190705
because its the most popular jRPG of this era and people are trying to say the genre hasn't gone casual. Scrolling past I see 2 underage shitiots trying to defend modern shit, yes I could ignore that but then those little shitheads think somehow that game's are just as hard as they were back in the day.

>> No.1190729

>>1190719
Someone up thread asked you to give ten examples as to how gaming has gone casual and you've just sperged and sperged and sperged.

Just delete your posts. You're adding nothing to this conversation.

>> No.1190734

>>1190719
>because its the most popular jRPG of this era

lol

On top of that, "THIS ONE GAME PROVES EVERYTHING IS BAD". You're not too smart.

>> No.1190858

>>1190729
that wasn't me shithead. I love how defensive you all got though

>> No.1191469

>>1190387
Eh I think it's pretty straightforward.

Traumatized by the death of his friend Zack, Cloud kind of "became" Zack, claiming Zack's achievements as his own. But deep down, he's still just that shy guy who joined the Shinra Army to impress the girl he liked.