/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.1180440]

Why is Final Fantasy VII so underrated in comparison to VI?

I mean, how can FFVII be overrated when 80% of any post relating to the game has to refer to it as "not living up to its reputation", to the extent of where you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone saying FFVII is an all-time great. On the other hand, FFVI seems to get unanimous praise, even though it has mediocre mechanics and an uninspired story. FFVI is not an all-time great. Chrono Trigger is better. Terranigma is much better. Live-a-Live is more enjoyable. FFV is the best SNES FF by far. So why is FFVI the overrated one?

Once everybody agrees something is overrated, it ceases to be that.

[Anonymous No.1180449]

>Once everybody agrees something is overrated, it ceases to be that.

I totally agree with you.

[Anonymous No.1180456]

>why do people have opinions?
>why do people change their opinions?
>I have an opinion
>my opinion is correct
>guys explain to me all these opinions

[Anonymous No.1180494]

>>1180456
>how dare this guy have opinion
>why discuss opinions
>debating opinion is irrelevant
>now look and laugh as I point this out
>harharhar ha ha
>i mean, we're- ha ha- on a BOARD- *pfffffff-* HA- that d-discusses opinions ROFLcopter- wh-why then talk about them?? LOLLLLLLLL

Kill yourself. Your point could be used for any post on any thread of any board on 4chan and the interwebs as a whole. I cannot begin to comprehend what an ignorant post yours just was.

[Anonymous No.1180497]

>>1180456
>let's ridicule the idea of having opinions

Jesus Christ.

[Anonymous No.1180504]

>>1180456
>let's ridicule the idea of having opinions

Jesus Christ.

[Anonymous No.1180505]

People try and be cool by calling popular stuff "overrated". It's a pretty much meaningless term that people throw around, usually when they have no real legitimate criticism. It's by no means exclusive to video games either, people use it to dismiss popular things in every medium.

I agree on FFV, by the way.

[Anonymous No.1180516]

>>1180440
>to the extent of where you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone saying FFVII is an all-time great

that's just people being contrarian

it's why most people around here think 9 is the best one, because it's third most popular and therefore the safe choice even though it's basically 900 hours of pressing the X button to get through dialogue

[Anonymous No.1180520]

>>1180505

Overrated doesn't mean bad, though.

[Anonymous No.1180526]

2 things, I guess.

Group mentality: Some dude makes a (maybe valid) point in a wity way and everyone jumps on the wagon.

Hype and disappointment: There are a lot of people who didn't play FF7 when it was released simply because they were too young. Once they heard how awesome it is, they started to play it with too high expectations. FF7 this day doesn't has much which sets it apart from other, newer JRPGs, so of course they would be disappointed.

It was a ground-breaking game for its time and I still think it's a damn fine game even with all its flaws.

[Anonymous No.1180532]

>>1180520
You're right. It doesn't stop people from acting like it does, though.

[Anonymous No.1180538]

>>1180520
>>1180532

'Overrated' has to be one of the most misused terms on 4chan, right behind "Objectively", "Literally" and "Autism".

[Anonymous No.1180546]

>>1180520
Sure, but it generally puts the subject at hand in an unfavorable light. It might not always be a bad thing, but it isn't ever really a good thing.

[Anonymous No.1180548]

>>1180440
FF5 and 6 offered completely different things.But that's besides the point. When looking at classic games you have to take into account the time frame they were made in. FF6 was refined and while working within the ridiculous limitations of the SNES. Saying that story was "uninspired" shows how little understanding you have of the SNES limits.

Looking at FF7 though you see a game made in the early years of the consoles life span and because of that it relied more on the cheap visual gimmicks. Saying FF6's story is uninspired and praising 7's horribly plothole ridden story makes no sense. 7 like many other games made early in a consoles life span couldn't stand up to the test of time. Also in terms of gameplay 7 is literally a modified 6.

[Anonymous No.1180557]

multitude of things. first of all people are just tired of it, so they hate it. second of all, most the people who like it only like it because it was their first rpg. me, i think its an ok game. dont think ff is all its cracked up to be in the first place, only like ff3 and ff4 on ds because they at least have some challenge, and ff9 because the characters are great.

[Anonymous No.1180562]

>>1180538
you cant even say literally any more without 5 people going >literally even if its in the correct way.

[Anonymous No.1180563]

>>1180546
>Sure, but it generally puts the subject at hand in an unfavorable light.

Not really. There are games that people consider 10/10 that I think are overrated. And I don't think badly of them. I just think that they're maybe 8/10 games and at worse 7.5/10 games.

Maybe some people use it incorrectly, but I'd prefer it didn't become "buzzword" tier because it has a lot of legitimate use.

[Anonymous No.1180567]

Sad autist hipsters think hating on the popular game makes them cool. You're in a board that's full of them.

[Anonymous No.1180569]

>>1180557
>most the people who like it only like it because it was their first rpg.

Do you actually believe this?

[Anonymous No.1180579]

>>1180440

I agree with you and commend you for being honest about your opinion.

[Anonymous No.1180580]

>>1180569
It's probably true for some people.

THAT BEING SAID, I know people who really like FF7 and started playing RPGs on the NES with DQ1 and FF1, so it does get annoying seeing people who think that way.

Off topic, but it's also one of the reasons I hate it when people say things like "the first game you played in X series is your favorite" or something like that. Final Fantasy V and Oracle of Seasons are my favorite FF and Zelda game, respectively. They also are no where near the first titles I've played in either series.

Sorry for the rant.

[Anonymous No.1180587]

>>1180562

The only right time to use literally is as an antonym to proverbial. Like someone gets backstabbed literally by getting stabbed in the back.

[Anonymous No.1180590]

>>1180580
I don't doubt it is true for some people, but for him to say "most people who like it" is just being dismissive and frankly, pretty stupid. I don't understand how people hold this mentality of everyone who is a fan of something must think exactly the same way.

Anyways, I agree with your rant.

[Anonymous No.1180596]

>>1180548
>>1180548
>it all comes down to console limitations
Wrong. You could make a more emotionally appealing story with the NES's limitations if you had a good enough idea. Hell, Terranigma has a much more inspired story and it had the same limitations as the SNES.

In my opinion, FFVII is one of the most beautiful games of all time - one that uses scenery, subtlety, and a good amount of style bridled with pure emotion to make something truly great.

FFVI on the other hand appeals to the non-conformists who want to appear "edgy" and "different", or those too uncreative to enjoy something at face-value, instead opting for a less popular title so as to feel sophisticated.

[Anonymous No.1180628]

>>1180440
>FFVI has an uninspired story
Get off my planet.

You won't be able to respond to my comment without all capital letters and sarcastic bullshit.

[Anonymous No.1180678]

The word overrated is meaningless unless you define who its overrated by. Professional critics? 4chan?

[Anonymous No.1180694]

>>1180596
>In my opinion, FFVII is one of the most beautiful games of all time - one that uses scenery, subtlety, and a good amount of style bridled with pure emotion to make something truly great.

I agree. Final fantasy VII is a truly special game because of the sum of all its parts. I enjoyed it more than Final Fantasy VI and Chrono Trigger. This is not saying that either of those games are bad, but Final Fantasy VI and Chrono Trigger are hampered with pacing issues that demotivate the player. The villain of Final Fantasy VI, Kefka, is especially irritating because he is simply one-dimensional. If someone can explain why Kefka is not a one-dimensional character, please prove me wrong in this regard.

[Anonymous No.1180715]

FF VII marked a great stage in the history of video games, with the visuals it introduced. But sadly is now overrated as fuck and hasn't aged well.

FF VI, actually seems to have a better story than VII; but many diss it as it is harder and now because it is a Nintendo game.

FF V is actually a good game, but back in its time was dissed for being too "light hearted." And actually has aged well as it is getting better recognition now.

[Anonymous No.1180723]

>>1180715
>many people diss FFVI harder because it is a Nintendo game
>because it is a Nintendo game
>Nintendo game
...what? Is there like an anti-SNES movement I'm not aware of?

[Anonymous No.1180725]

>>1180715
>many people diss FFVI harder because it is a Nintendo game
...what? Is there like an anti-SNES movement I'm not aware of?

[Anonymous No.1180728]

>>1180715
>many people diss FFVI harder because it is a Nintendo game

...what? Is there like an anti-SNES movement I'm not aware of?

[Anonymous No.1180726]

>>1180715
>But sadly is now overrated as fuck and hasn't aged well.

You realize this basically means nothing, right? Perhaps you could elaborate some more?

>many diss it as it is harder and now because it is a Nintendo game.

I don't even know what you're talking about here. I can't say I've ever seen anyone criticize the game for being on a Nintendo platform.

[Anonymous No.1180729]

It's because 6 was the penultimate of the old school FF. 7 is the babby of the new school of FF.

But anyone who was there to experience will tell you that 7 absolutely stunned us on every level when it came out. I remember we had a preview at the Babbage's I worked at that all it had was the scene in the subway and Tifa's restaurant but the Leviathan summon was available. We would watch ir over and over and over again.

That shit was the future.

[Anonymous No.1180730]

>>1180694
yeah... Kefka is pretty much one-dimensional. but the fun is in seeing just how far the rabbit hole that one dimension goes. we know he is a petty nutjob, but we had no idea he was THAT petty. its really amazing, by the time you meet him, in the final battle.

[Anonymous No.1180732]

FFVII just aged like cow shit. The character models, backgrounds, and especially the story. I'm not trying to defend any FF game's story, but god damn FFVII had a corn cob up its ass the entire time trying to tell the story. The gameplay is also very... gimmicky? I'm not sure how to word it but it seemed like every other second you were doing some half-assed action game. Tifa slapping QTE? It was my favorite game ever for a long time and if I continued to latch onto nostalgia it'd probably still be. But I had to fuck it all up and replay it with an adult mind and it ruined it. FFV and VI held up to my replays. Even IX did to a much lesser extent. All others were pinnacles of yesteryear and damn near outclassed by RPG Maker games now.

inb4 I get blasted for hours

[Anonymous No.1180741]

>>1180694

Kefka has dimension in how he was actually turned into a crazy ass general. The biggest strength in his story is that it all makes sense. Sephiroth is the one that is one-dimensional AND doesn't make dick for sense and cracks of "just because" shit.

[Anonymous No.1180738]

>>1180694
Most FF villains are one-dimensional, including Sephiroth in FFVII. Originally it was a guy who went crazy because his ancient alien mom wanted him to take over the planet. The difference is that because FFVII gets so much attention and has so many spin-offs Sephiroth is fleshed out more in those titles, while with Kefka we just get one great performance. Besides, if you've played both games, you realize how much of Sephiroth is taken from Kefka, it's like Square pulled out the villain's prgress in VI and just replaced Kefka's name with Sephiroth(which also happened with ALOT of FFVII's story).

[Anonymous No.1180748]

>>1180726
It happens, I know a guy who legitimately believes that FF didn't get good until VII, and refuses to play the old games because they were made on a platform for children

[Anonymous No.1180757]

VII catches a lot of flack because of its fans. It was damn near impossible to find a message board that didn't at least have 20+ people with the name Sephiroth or Cloud. Those same people were way too outspoken on their love for the game, in turn it pushed a lot of people to hate the game on that fact alone, even if they'll never admit it. I'm sure a lot of people legitimately believe it is overrated, even without the annoying fans that plagued the internet in the past, but I still feel they played a big role in giving VII that image.

[Anonymous No.1180756]

>>1180738
>one is an insane guy with a crazy sense of humor who lucks out into getting godly powers
>another is a quite sane guy with no sense of humor who goes mad and then is replaced by an eldritchian abomination for the rest of the story
Look, I agree that FFVII borrows a lot from FFVI. But the villains are as different as night and day. And this is sort of on an unrelated note, but I hate how everyone sums up Sephiroth as being a momma's boy. His fascination with "mother" only occurs during the flashback. He doesn't show any of these characteristics afterwards. It's like how everyone says Cloud is emo when he's only slightly distant during the first hour of the game, and only truly emo during the climax of his story arc.

>>1180741
>Kefka makes sense
You're saying a homicidal clown with superpowers that somehow becomes a god by pushing some old-ass status around "makes sense"? Really?

[Anonymous No.1180760]

>>1180440
>FF VII
>underrated


yeah, kill yourself you cum guzzling window licker

[Anonymous No.1180762]

>>1180760
>>/v/

[Anonymous No.1180763]

>>1180760
What a reasoned and well thought out argument

[Anonymous No.1180767]

>>1180757
You know what's funny? In this thread, it seems like the FFVII fans are the ones who are showing some mature perspectives, while the FFVI fans are just acting butthurt.

[Anonymous No.1180770]

Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake is to Metal Gear Solid as Final Fantasy VI is to Final Fantasy VII.

Yes, there are massive similarities between the titles, but the latter ones polished and honed in on what made the previous games good to begin with.

At least we can all agree X killed the series. No amount of good music or story can redeem that battle system and voice acting.

[Anonymous No.1180774]

>Why is Final Fantasy VII so underrated
stopped reading right there
saged, reported, called the cops, etc.

[Anonymous No.1180781]

>>1180767
I've noticed that they've matured over the years in general. Back then all of the annoying fans were 12-16 (I'm talking 8-9 years ago, at least), now they're adults and conduct themselves as such. Mostly...

[Anonymous No.1180783]

>>1180770
>Hated IX more than VIII
What the hell is wrong with you, anon?

[Anonymous No.1180786]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDqea9cWOn4

Fucking LOL

[Anonymous No.1180793]

>>1180756
I'm not saying they are the same, they are quite different. If anyone here saw Jeremy Jahns review of FFVI(it's really good) he describes the two saying Sephiroth is like Darth Vader, very menacing and you know when he's in the room shit's about to go down. He then describes Kefka as the Joker, for very obvious reasons.
And as for people calling Sephiroth a momma's boy it's because he only has a fascination with Jenova in the Flashback, but also because you can tell that he is still obsessed with her, deciding to destroy the planet solely because his mother didn't get to. He even names 4 bosses after her and uses the same method she used when conquering planets.
And if you think about it, Kefka as a villain was much more successful than Sephiroth. Sephiroth ALMOST destroyed the world and became a god. Kefka succeeded, killing millions and staying in power for a whole year.
And it's explained that Kefka's power comes from the 3 gods(who were of equal power and turned themselves into statues to prevent destroying the world) and as long as they are alive he continues draining power from them. It's like Kefka is a laptop plugged into a wall, and the outlet supplying energy is the 3 Deities. Now when you destroy those power sources he looses his connection to the outlet and begins running on battery power, which you drain by kicking the shit out of him.
Sorry anon, FFVI is my favorite game ever and I get pretty autistic about it. I hope you see my point thought.

[Anonymous No.1180801]

>>1180793

I think Sephiroth's obsession with Jenova is more his pride about muh heritage. Also, didn't he try to destroy the planet in order to become a god? Haven't played it in a long time so correct me if I'm wrong.

[Anonymous No.1180808]

>>1180801
He did it because he was attempting to follow in Jenova's footsteps. He duplicated the way she became a god, and was going to make Gaia his vessel as he traveled to other worlds.

[Anonymous No.1180816]

>>1180808

Well, that sounds vastly different from just trying to please mommy, doesn't it?

[Anonymous No.1180818]

>>1180793
>I'm not saying they are the same
But you said in your first post, "-it's like Square pulled out the villain's prgress in VI and just replaced Kefka's name with Sephiroth."

>you can tell that he is still obsessed with Jenova after the flashback
No. It is heavily implied that Sephiroth isn't even the same person he was in Nibelheim. He had drifted through the lifestream and essentially become an apparition with no personality, simply an extension of Jenova's will. And about the "four bosses he names after her"... Well, maybe, y'know, they're called Jenova because- get this- they are Jenova?! Crazy stuff.

>Kefka was a much more successful villain than Sephiroth
ha, I don't really give a damn about that. I'd rather have an interesting villain than a bland one that accomplishes world domination. How about I wrote a story about a piece of shit that not only took over the world, but managed to kill all the heroes and eventually destroyed all of reality? Would he be a better villain than Kefka? You decide.

>Kefka stayed in power for a WHOLE year
Even Obama has been in power for longer than that.

>>and it's explained that Kefka's power [yada yada yada] battery power [yada] outlet supplying energy [continue irrelevant metaphor] he looses his connection from the output [etc etc]
Uh- yeah. I'll remember that.

>I hope you see my point
I don't really see your point, but thanks for chipping in! =D

[Anonymous No.1180859]

I think you have it backwards OP.

FFVI sold decently but FFVII is the game that really got everybody interested in JRPGs en masse. I liked JRPGs in the 16 bit era but they were definitely not the most popular genre then. People still ask and start petitions for FFVII to be remade over 15 years later. FFVI just doesn't elicit the same popular response.

They're both largely regarded as classics, but FFVII was always the one that was recognized much more. It sold the friggin' Playstation.

[Anonymous No.1180867]

No matter what the hype, 6 and 7 will always be the best in the series

[Anonymous No.1180884]

>>1180818
1) I never actually said that they were the same character, I said that the arc they went through to gain their power was the same.
2) Then you're saying Jenova was the one who had him break into Shinra HQ and steal her body even though he already had complete control over those with Jenova cells? The only reason he really needed the body was because it gave him a few spare bodies to use, not because he really needed them. Nowhere is it stated that he needed the body to complete reunion, he took it because he wanted his mother's body. That's Freudian shit right there.
3) Well would you prefer a villain who plays it straight-faced the entire game without showing any real emotion save for a couple scenes in the flashback, whose dialogue is delivered in a boring, by-the-books intimidating manner, or a man who brings passion to his role and creates memorable lines and moments that don't involve killing main cast members, yet still commits enough horrible atrocities to make you despise him, only to find out he wins and rules the world as a god? You decide.
4) Just pointing it out, Sephiroth only managed to scare the shit out of everyone for two weeks and Kefka destroyed entire continents for fun.
5) You said it didn't make sense, I'm giving you a metaphor that would help you understand the subject(however when you bring magic into anything "sense" ceases to happen, because that's just how magic is, it bends the laws the way it wants, so being pissy about it is rather dumb), but if you want to ignore it go ahead. Besides, it's not like Sephiroths plan of "I'm going to infuse myself with Lifestream energy" made much sense either, considering he was already part of the Lifestream.

Thanks anon, I'm fired up and awake again.

[Anonymous No.1180901]

>>1180440
>FF7
>underrated
What the fuck am I reading?

[Anonymous No.1180962]

I have beaten V, VI, and I will buy VII on Steam. Am I missing another "masterpiece"? Should I play another one?

[Anonymous No.1180968]

>>1180962
FFIV and I wouldn't play FF7 on PC. Period. The backgrounds are locked in 320x240 resolution. Play it on PSX or PSP for portable.

[Anonymous No.1180969]

>>1180968

Steam version is legit better than the PSX version now. Everything has been fixed and updated. It looks better and has a better translation than the PS.

[Anonymous No.1180971]

>>1180969
Do not listen to this man.

[Anonymous No.1180973]

>>1180969
Details?

I have the boxed PC version. But back when I played it, I was using 640x480 resolution so the backgrounds were still pretty good if a little pixelated (not that anyone cared back then). But what did they do to make them not a garbled mess on the steam version?

[Anonymous No.1180975]

Oh, and a fun fact about FF7. Squaresoft can't release an HD remake of FF7 because they literally lost the original renders to all the backgrounds. Top fucking lel.

[Anonymous No.1180998]

>>1180975
They COULD release a remake, but they'd need to literally re-make the game.
Basically they'd need to spend crazy money on it and they really don't want to work that hard on remakes (FF4 DS not included, but then again they had ample practice by that point).

[Anonymous No.1181084]

>>1180440
No one in their right mind said FF6 was the best JRPG of all time. It's just much better than FF7, that's all.

[Anonymous No.1181117]

>>1180998
I have a friend who's a hardcore RPG player, he claims he'll scream bloody murder if FFVII gets remade

his reasoning being two reasons, the first being "they'll make it look like Final Fantasy X, and they're supposed to be toons!" and the second being "they'll change the script for no reason!"

[Anonymous No.1181132]

>>1180962
Possibly IV, though you might not feel that way about it.

[Anonymous No.1181140]

>>1180494
>>1180504
In my opinion, you can't read.

[Anonymous No.1181141]

>>1181117
>"they'll make it look like Final Fantasy X, and they're supposed to be toons!"
Except for virtually every other appearance of its characters in media.

[Anonymous No.1181147]

FFVI isn't better than FFVII in any way, and most of the people that love it seem to praise it for fucking Kefka, the incredibly one-dimensional villiain that it took Ted Woolsey to make him memorable. There's a reason Japan considers it a step behind FFVI.

[Anonymous No.1181148]

Personally, I think that FFVII achieved that rare critical mass wherein all of hipsterdom turns in on itself.

Tons of people of a certain age like it, therefore tons of people of a certain age dislike it - due to the aforementioned. It's circular, but whatever.

I think it's a great game, and that it will trend in and out for quite a long while.

[Anonymous No.1181165]

FF7 is only considered overrated by the young demographic of 4 chan that only know x box and ps3 era gaming. I feel sorry for them.

[Anonymous No.1181193]

>>1181117
they're legitimate fears.
Chances are the characters will look like they're from Advent Children/Crisis Core, and they'll act like in Advent Children/Crisis Core, with all the shitty retcons bundled in.
Compilation of FFVII was one of the worst things to happen to a game/series I loved. Right up there along with the mishandling of the Tomb Raider franchise, and Sonic games post-S3&K

[Anonymous No.1181204]

>>1181193
Yep, truthfully I wouldn't trust the Square of today to adequately (or even accurately) remake the game.

And I tend to think that similar internal sentiments are what's been keeping them from touching it all these years.

[Anonymous No.1181209]

>>1180729
>It's because 6 was the penultimate of the old school FF. 7 is the babby of the new school of FF.

I feel like you were trying to say "6 was the last old school." penultimate means second-to-last. And actually I would agree with THAT statement... even though you're talkin' about graphics mostly, I feel like FF7 was the last Final Fantasy before they significantly started fucking around with core gameplay mechanics more; i think it has a lot more in common with 6 than it does with 8 or 9. FF7 was an opportunity to translate the existing formula to the new generation and once they did it they started going in different directions. I'd elaborate but I'm kind of fucked up.

[Anonymous No.1181215]

>>1181209
>even though you're talkin' about graphics mostly

based kacho, is that you?

[Anonymous No.1181218]

>>1181215
no...? what about that is kacho-like

[Anonymous No.1181242]

>>1180440
So underrated? FFVII is everyone's favorite even though it's utter shit.

[Anonymous No.1181248]

Final Fantasy 6 wasn't actually that popular when it was new. After Final Fantasy 7 came out, 6 quickly developed a cult following among people who didn't have a Playstation and were only able to experience the series through emulation.

That's basically all there is to it. Anyone who had a Playstation back in the day liked 7 better than 6. Final Fantasy 6 is the poor man's Final Fantasy 7.

[Anonymous No.1181253]

>>1180801
He's just insane.
He breaks during the Nibelheim incident. Conflicted by misinformed Shinra reports, and the influence of Jenova in his body, he goes batshit, takes the head of the specimen in the reactor, and waltzes off, intending to do god knows what.
The other times he's seen in game are just forms of Jenova, projecting a guise of Sephiroth based on the memories of others, memories of a mentally broken man, to manipulate them, and lead them on their path.
When he's finally seen again at the bottom of the North Crater, if it even is him, there's no babbling, no shuffling around with the masamune, just 2 fights with heavily Jenova-mutated forms, and then a psychological, once-and-for-all coup de grace in Cloud's mind.

Kefka vs Sephiroth is redundant, when Sephiroth vs Jenova is more interesting to dissect.

[Anonymous No.1181254]

>>1181248
Please refrain from framing bullshit speculation as an absolute.

[Anonymous No.1181259]

>>1181254
The internet's favorite Final Fantasy is the most recent one which can be reliably emulated.

Just let that sink in for a minute.

[Anonymous No.1181273]

I like FFVII better than FFVI. They're both good games, but FFVI loses all it's pace at the World of Ruin. It doesn't encourage you to keep playing. For a very long time I stopped playing there.

[Anonymous No.1181281]

>>1180440
Pic related.

[Anonymous No.1181290]

>>1181193
Pic related

[Anonymous No.1181317]

>>1181259
Uh, no?

[Anonymous No.1181329]

>>1181317
>la la la I can't hear you

Final Fantasy S(h)i(t)x's fanbase, ladies and gentlemen.

[Anonymous No.1181341]

>>1181290
> Left
Generic power fantasy for 14 years old audience of animu

> Right
Realistic character with flaws

[Anonymous No.1181345]

>>1181259

Isn't that always the case?

DS SUXXXXXXXXXXX *emulation possible*

OH SHIT EVERYONE DOWNLOADS WOW COOL

[Anonymous No.1181343]

>>1181290
Honestly, FF7's Cloud is more like the artwork in the right.

Don't let nostalgia blind you.

[Anonymous No.1181403]

>>1180770
...battle system was best in all of jrpgs?

[Anonymous No.1181408]

>>1180440

Facts that make FF7 the best RPG:

- requires NO grinding.. NONE, if you fight normally without running away, you will always be strong (the Super Bosses are easy once you know the tricks)
- no annoying side quests. WAIT, inbefore: chocobo breeding: compared to shit like todays Trophies and other crap, it is a piece of cake and not that long.
- encounter rate is just PERFECT.
- every city looks different, every dungeon looks different.
- had mini games as just FUN parts, not as mandatory shit that you HAVE to be good at to finish. It was part of the story and really easy. Just to mix it up.
- GOLD fucking SAUCER

[Anonymous No.1181409]

>>1181084
what is better? I realise this isn't everyone's definition but I count only turn-based.

[Anonymous No.1181413]

>>1181147
The second stage of the game in FFVI is balls-to-the-wall awesome though. That's the kind of roaming you don't get in FFVII.

[Anonymous No.1181415]

>>1181273
I think WoR is best thing that's ever happened to the jrpg genre. Only somewhat hyperbole here.

[Anonymous No.1181416]

>>1180786
>Reno with black hair

FUCKING RUINED

[Anonymous No.1181417]

>>1181343
He's really not. When he's got Zack's personality imprinted on him, he's kind of a cocky jerk, showing off when he first meets Aeris and shit. After he regains his real memories and "finds himself" he becomes determined to stop Sephiroth and save the planet, even if he has to do it by himself. Hell, even right after Aeris dies, and he realizes Sephiroth has influence over him, he doesn't mope around or anything, he rallies everyone to go after Sephiroth.

I mean really, you really think the guy on the right would do shit like crossdress to get into a brothel, or tell everyone "There ain't no gettin' offa this train we're on?"

[Anonymous No.1182340]

>>1181413
If you want roaming like that, then play a western RPG.

[Anonymous No.1182343]

>>1181343
I played the game very recently, and he's very much like the one on the left. Don't let the compilation blind you.

[Anonymous No.1182403]

>>1182340
WRPGs don't really work like the world of ruin, though.
Once you reach the world or ruin you are, in a sense, nearly done with the game.
A game composed entirely of side quests is kind of an odd concept, and nearly all games have a much more linear main questline then the world of ruin does.

[Anonymous No.1182413]

>>1181259
>>1181345

It's not just emulation. The instant any game becomes available to the "PC Master Race" in any way (often through ports), it suddenly goes from shit to GOTY. Thus proving my point that the Mouseturd Race is the reason 90% of all shitposting happens.

Pic oh so very related.

>>1182340
FFVII had plenty of roaming. In fact, the point at which it was decided that real Final Fantasy games don't need no stinkin' player freedom was roughly the point at which the series went to shit. Culminating in the linear corridor running simulator that was XIII.

[Anonymous No.1182423]

>>1182413
I'm pretty sure pic is the opposite of related.
Dark Souls got FAR more negative flak when the pc port came out.
Understandably, because of the obvious hype and general envy that pc only people had, and how generally awful a port it was.

[Anonymous No.1182424]

>>1181408

Facts that make it less than decent:

Looks absolutely horrible now (VIII and IX are just fine, and I understand age)
Too easy.
Not open world enough.
Some very unlikeable characters.
Awful story.
Very samey towns (honestly not sure how you think they're much different)
Bad translation.
Materia system, while nice, was the start of the "you can be a tank healer AND mage :):)" shit that breaks all balance in the end game and robs it of strategy.
Lots of garbage side quests, mini games, and proto QTEs.

I am playing devil's advocate here a bit, but I feel a list like that absolutely needs a counter point. FFVII is good but it is nowhere near even the best JRPG let alone RPG.

[Anonymous No.1182437]

>>1182424
I don't think its fair to say like FF7 less because of the trends it started.
I also believe that how open the world is is much more opinion then fact.
You have some valid points though, although I'm never someone who thought the game was literally the best ever so maybe I'm not biased enough.

[Anonymous No.1182502]

>>1182424
I feel like a lot of your points are more of a matter of opinion than anything really objectively wrong with the game, especially the ones about the characters, story and how it looks. I get why people criticize the graphics and everything, but personally, I don't find detracts much from the game.

It is a pretty easy game though, and I definitely agree on the translation.

[Anonymous No.1182504]

>>1181408
>WAIT, inbefore: chocobo breeding: compared to shit like todays Trophies and other crap, it is a piece of cake and not that long.
To really understand how frustrating chocobo breeding can be, you had to play FF7 when it was new.

Today getting a gold chocobo is really easy and can be done in about an hour, because the breeding algorithms are completely understood and fully documented.

But in the 90's, chocobo breeding was mostly trial and error. Catching different kinds of chocobo, racing them, breeding them with nuts... there were so many variables at work and there wasn't really a definitive guide, you had to just ask other players what worked for then, and then try what they did.

[Anonymous No.1182513]

>>1182504

Yeah I remember what a bitch it was playing it near launch trying to build of chocobos and having no clue that I could ask the Sage multiple times and about new shit. Terrible side quest.

[Anonymous No.1182517]

>was the start of the "you can be a tank healer AND mage :):)"

VI's Esper system really did that first.

[Anonymous No.1182521]

>>1182504
Chocobo breeding is something that is cool to do once, and never again. Even when you know how to exploit the RNG and shit, it's still tedious and boring.

[Anonymous No.1182527]

>>1182517

Nowhere near as flagrant as VII. Characters in VI were still class oriented whereas they were blank slates in VII.

[Anonymous No.1182532]

>>1182527
Well V was here, VII is a loser.

[Anonymous No.1182534]

>>1182532

V balanced it to where you couldn't really do all of that at once. Until the broken ass GBA version came out.

[Anonymous No.1182546]

>>1182527
Yeah, but almost all the classes completely fell away once that kicked in. There were a handful who had useful special abilities that could carry over to the late game or who were pigeonholed by their stats, but by the second half most of the party was big amorphous blob of Red Mages, like FFVII or FFVIII who could all spam curaga and ultima and fight as well as each other.

[Anonymous No.1182553]

>>1182546

Yeaaa true enough. The pigeon holed stats and dedicated abilities just made it seem a bit less one stop shop but it still was proto VII.

[Anonymous No.1182559]

>>1182532
!duane

[Anonymous No.1182568]

>Kefka
>bad

See this is what I don't get about people who hate VI. Why is "pyschotic madman motivated by the sheer lulz of it" an inherently less valid concept than, say, "guy gets possessed by his demon ghost mother who wanted to destroy the world"? Why does every villain NEED to have some tragic emo backstory or be possessed by some dark god or be a well-meaning but extremist Knight Templar? Hell, the Joker is one of the most timeless and endearing comic book villains ever created and he's not much more complex than Kefka.

Kefka is a memorable villain because he's a plain-and-simple Bad Guy, not a good guy who didn't get hugged enough as a child so he turned to evil in despair but oh if only we could purge the demons inside of him we could see that he's still that innocent little boy and then we could all dance together happily ever after in the field of dreams. He steals the show and makes his scenes memorable by way of his powerful personality and hammy lines, not by having a gimmicky backstory filled with artificial drama. Did we need to know Darth Vader's backstory for him to be interesting and memorable? No, and in fact after Lucas gave us his backstory he actually became LESS interesting, because now we know that all this time he was just a whiny teenager in an adult/robot hybrid body.

[Anonymous No.1182596]

>>1182424
>very samey towns
A technological marvel carved into the side of a cliff. A resort town. The world's most destitute village located beneath the world's most grandiose theme park. A town analogous to Chernobyl. A commune of nature-lovers living within the hollows of a ragged canyon. An eerie childhood home located near the devil's perch. A town with a decaying rocket looming beside it. A nation that finds itself in a similar predicament to Japan - the peddling of a powerful past culture for wide-eyed foreigners. And of course, the one that goes without saying: Midgar.

Final Fantasy VII's towns are anything but samey. In fact, the setting is probably the best part of the game.

And then you compare it to Final Fantasy VI, which has generic town after generic town, with only Figaro Castle really standing out, due to its sand burrowing capabilities. Oh, and Zozo too, but that's more of a dungeon than a town.

[Anonymous No.1182610]

>>1182568
I barely ever hear anyone hate VI due to the villain's motivation. Pick a better point to argue against.

[Anonymous No.1183486]

>>1182568
Kefka does have a comparable backstory though. He was one of the first Magitek knights, but the process of infusing that ability onto him is thought to have driven him crazy.

[PSMasterRace No.1183867]

In my opinion FFVII is superior to VI. If you play them in order you can easily see influences and adoptations that VII took from VI and refined and evolved. Dont get me wrong, I really like VI but in all honesty, it is clearly inferior to VII in almost every way.

[Anonymous No.1183886]

>>1182568
I completely agree with you.
There really needs to be more villains like Kefka. Not clowns, I mean, but villains that wants to rule and/or destroy just for the heck of it because they've literally gone insane.

[Anonymous No.1183923]

>>1180440
FF7 is overrated because Aeris gets killed and you cannot get her back. This is what fuelled so many male gamers rage to get even with Sephiroth. Throw them a waifu then kill her with no chance of getting her back.

Seriously, this is't hard.

[PSMasterRace No.1183940]

>>1183923
Why does that bother you so much? I have never understood that. I hate Aeris, she is weak, is highly un-cool, has all kind of annoying problems and so on. Did not miss her one bit. If Tifa had died it would have mattered cus she is actually a asset to the team

[Anonymous No.1183958]

I swear to god /vr/ needs another sticky.

>2013 saying a game 20 years ago has bad mechanics/graphics.

These are not valid arguments unless you give a comparison.
You cannot compare anything other than story and feels between games on different platforms.
There is no fact, only subjective opinion.

[Anonymous No.1183974]

I'm playing FF7 right now (as in, this very moment). It's my third playthrough. My first was in the late 90s when I was 13 or 14 years old, my second one a couple of years back, and here I am now, going on 30 and replaying it again. Needless to say, my views and approaches changed tremendously over the years.

What you guys should really realize if you want to have a meaningful conversation is what >>1183958 said. All these games are flawed, and arguing that they are flawed is extremely moot.

Look at those games as contemporary witnesses instead. It's what I'm doing right now with FF7, and that's actually fun. Yeah, the gameplay systems are undercooked, the story delivery is hamfisted, the characters are mostly clowns, some of the visuals are barf and some of the general art direction is exceedingly ridiculous to the point that it damages the game. But, and >>1180729 this dude got it (nvm the dumb kneejerk one-liner): that shit was the fucking future in 1997. FF7 contains so much historical value, and for that alone I don't really give a shit about its flaws. It's just too interesting, warts and all.

[Anonymous No.1183980]

>>1180440
>agree with me .... now.
sod off, wanker. opinions are opinions. i know and have read plenty of opinions here that VI was not all that good. same with every other FF.

[Anonymous No.1183986]

>>1183867
>evolved
No, it was a carbon copy with the names of objects, people and organizations in VI smudged out and replaced with objects, people and organizations. Sure, they tweaked it to be less noticeable, but if you look at it VII is just a VI clone with better tech. Still a fantastic game though, don't get me wrong.

[Anonymous No.1183997]

>>1182568
My nigga.
I love both games and their villains, but the argument extremist fans of VII produce to put down elements in VI are half-baked and faulty. But since 90% of VII fans happen to also be total weeaboos, it isn't surprising they'd choose a kawaii, androgynous villain who has mommy issues over a fun, purely detestable(and triumphant) villain.

[Anonymous No.1184013]

>>1181147
Plus VII ripped so many fucking elements from VI that it destroys a lot of VII's credibility. And I know plenty of fans who praise it for reasons other than just Kefka, mainly because the game was just really, really fun and had extremely memorable music and characters.

[Anonymous No.1184015]

>>1181341
Go back to /a/ you stupid weeb.

[PSMasterRace No.1184035]

How can you say that? Everything from the storytelling perspective to game mechanics in VII is just way better executed and professional. Of course they rehash some stuff, that is called progress and evolution. What game series doesnt?

The thing is that nr 7 just refined the stuff the borrowed. It was not a "rip off" at all. Plus you make it sound like FFVII basicly is FFVI with a new skin and that is just way wrong.

[Anonymous No.1184052]

People's opinions of FF7, and Final Fantasy as a whole, have soured as the years have progressed. I remember when FF7 was often said to have "One of the greatest video game storylines of all time," and people said they cried when Aris dies and all that. I think people expect more now and have had time to see the game's flaws.

[Anonymous No.1184060]

>>1181408

>Gold Saucer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMaGq6vn7hg

I know people who love this game will disagree with any kind of negative comment made about any part of it.

But I'm sorry, that's one of the worst pieces of music I've heard in my entire life.

[Anonymous No.1184063]

>>1184060
You didn't play much FF8 then. Laguna's lulaby and the song that plays in that one fucking city that's made up of giant highways.

[Anonymous No.1184074]

>>1184052
the funny thing is that no ff game has ever had a good story.

[Anonymous No.1184114]

Jenova is the black goo of FFVII. No one fucking knows what the fuck it is.

[Anonymous No.1184117]

>>1184074
Loads of them have.

[Anonymous No.1184143]

>>1184117

Nah. But 'good' is relative in this case. Good in terms of a video game story? Maybe. Good compared to literary fictional works? Nope.

[Anonymous No.1184152]

>>1184143
If you're going to bring literature into it as a standard than no video game ever made has had a 'good' story.

[Anonymous No.1184167]

>>1184052

People expect more because the series went mainstream and more people played more installments and everyone said 7 was the best. While it was good, it had a dubious translation at points, a story with some very vague elements and a plot that wasn't exactly breathtaking. By the time there was a widespread opinion of it there were a lot of expectations on it that it simply couldn't live up to.

As a fan of FF but not hugely of 7, a lot of the problem isn't the game, but its fans. This can be said of virtually all things in the known world.

[Anonymous No.1184172]

>>1181408

An RPG should be defined by its overall world, atmosphere and story. If they can revolutionize the gameplay, power to them, but as long as it's not unplayable it's doing fine. RPGs, much like the average college student, subscribe to the notion of 'C's get degrees,' where as long as it meets a standard, it sure is an RPG.

Most of these elements are pretty homogenous across the series.

[Anonymous No.1184179]

>>1184152
Then again FFVII's narrative encompasses more than just the text boxes.

[Anonymous No.1184181]

>>1184152

Well, literature is no standard per se since there are some really crappy books out there, especially in the fantasy department. But I can't see how games shouldn't aim higher than the status quo. Otherwise it will always be "That's pretty good - for a video game".

[Anonymous No.1184278]

>>1180738
>>1180793
>>1180884
>>1183986
>>1183997
>>1184013
>>1184015
No, you go back to /a/ (not the same guy). You're the only weeb here. I'd list reasons why, but your posts are sufficient enough.

[Anonymous No.1184305]

I like that the game doesn't actually try to answer who the Sephiroth at the end of the game is. The actual Sephiroth could've entirely taken over Jenova, or it could be Jenova that took his form and became convinced it was the real thing, or they could've merged into an entirely new being.

[Anonymous No.1184308]

>>1184305
This ambiguity is what makes Sephiroth such a great villain, not his qt 3.14 exterior.

[Anonymous No.1184481]

>>1184278
Why do you just assume I'm the same anon that posted that other shit? In fact, why are you grouping any of those together anyway?

[Anonymous No.1184508]

>>1180783
>hating VIII
edgy

[Anonymous No.1184510]

I like both Sephiroth and Kefka equally. Sephiroth was menacing and scary, you know when he's around everything is completely fucked. Kefka on the other hand is unpredictable and easy to hate, you never know what he'll do next, but you know it'll be terrible.

[Anonymous No.1184532]

Can't we just agree all FF Villains are great, or at least good? Who cares if a bishounen is better than a clown, what we should be doing is thanking Square for giving us all these wonderful villains to start with! I mean, they are as good if not better at making great villains than Disney, and that's a fucking accomplishment.

So fuck this autistic arguing, let's make this an FF Villain's Appreciation thread!

[Anonymous No.1184546]

>>1184532

[Anonymous No.1184547]

>>1184532
MGS villains are better

[Anonymous No.1184549]

>>1184546

[Anonymous No.1184550]

>>1184549

[Anonymous No.1184556]

>>1184550

[Anonymous No.1184558]

>>1184556

[Anonymous No.1184561]

>>1184558

[Anonymous No.1184568]

>>1184561

[Anonymous No.1184572]

>>1184568

[Anonymous No.1184587]

>>1184572

[Anonymous No.1184591]

>>1184587

[Anonymous No.1184613]

>>1184481
Because they all use your mail address, idiot.

[Anonymous No.1184617]

>>1184591

[Anonymous No.1184623]

>>1184510
>>1184532
>>1184546
>>1184549
>>1184550
>>1184556
>>1184558
>>1184561
>>1184568
>>1184572
>>1184587
>>1184591
weeaboo/10
FFVI Fan/10

Yoko, make a trip already, will you? or better yet leave all together