/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.1175778]

When I was a teen I thought Earthworm Jim was the future. I was, of course, wrong.
But I wasn't insane. I mean, traditional animation, man! Literally cartoons that you control!
In the same way that Mortal Kombat had real people, I mean. Literally cartoons, but then scanned and made digital; but still, what an awesome idea! Right?

I even remember reading on a magazine that the technique of making an actual cartoons for the game was a patented idea. Like, it was an idea conceived for Earthworm Jim, and if I recall correctly the mag called the technique "animotion". Maybe I remember it wrong or maybe the mag lied, but that's what my memories tell me.

Now, other than Earthworm Jim what game is a cartoon made by a traditional animation studio? I don't mean Laser Disc games like Dragon's Lair. I mean games where the guy you control was hand-drawn and traditionally animated.

[Anonymous No.1175849]

>>1175778
The Neverhood was claymation which is at type of traditional animation.

[NESfag No.1175871]

Wario Land Shake Dimension on Wii was handdraw. It's not retro in the meaning of the board, but still retro if you take the 2nd definition of the word.

it's also definitely a great game. Sadly not as good gameplay wise as the first games in the series but still worth playing, I never regreteed paying full price for it on release.

[Anonymous No.1175897]

>I even remember reading on a magazine that the technique of making an actual cartoons for the game was a patented idea. Like, it was an idea conceived for Earthworm Jim, and if I recall correctly the mag called the technique "animotion". Maybe I remember it wrong or maybe the mag lied, but that's what my memories tell me.

You're half right. It was conceived and developed for Aladdin, which was basically a pre-Earthworm Jim, having essentially the same development team and engine.

[Anonymous No.1175918]

there are lots of hand-drawn games, but most are not retro.

[Anonymous No.1175928]

>>1175849
Oh, yeah. There's also that.
A handful of claymation exist. I don't remember a single good one, though.
There's also Donkey Kong Country which is basically frame-by-frame pictures of 3D models, and Killer Instinct. There's a Japanese fighting game that used that technique, too. Anyone knows it? I played it on MAME years ago and then I forgot the name. The characters looked like anime but the models were 3D translated into 2D.

>>1175897
That makes sense. I mean, I remember the movement of that game. It was pretty cool.

Wouldn't it be awesome if they gave us a 2D game animated like that? It'd be expensive, but picture a fighting game with actual cartoons, fluidly animated. Not gonna happen, though. too much work.
Hell, not even animation studios draw their cartoons nowadays. It's all CGI...

[Anonymous No.1175942]

Aladdin on Genesis has hand drawn sprites.

[Anonymous No.1175959]

>>1175942
Pardon me, but what exactly dictates handdrawn sprites? Wouldn't majority of them be?

[Anonymous No.1175963]

>>1175871

Yep I was hyped when I read it was done by Production I.G.
Too bad the gameplay wasn't on par with 3 or even 4.

Still liked it though.

[Anonymous No.1175965]

>>1175959
As said in the OP and >>1175897, Aladdin's and Earthworm Jim' sprites were hand drawn with cels and then scanned into the game digitally rather than the traditional sprite art technique of doing it from scratch. The process was called Digicel.

Aladdin's sprites were all done by Disney animators, for instance.

[Anonymous No.1175973]

I don't want to raise a shitstorm, just asking by genuine interest.
I've been meaning to play Earthworm Jim for a while on my Wii on my CRT, what would be the superior version?

SNES or Megadrive?
Are there any big differences or I'm good with either?

Because I remember playing Earthworm Jim when I was a kid on my PC, didn't have it on console.

[Anonymous No.1175980]

>>1175973
Genesis. It's the original version of the game. The Super Nintendo version has nicer looking backgrounds but it's cropped to 256x224 as opposed to the Genesis version's 320x224. Plus the Super Nintendo version is missing the Intestinal Distress level for some odd reason. And although it's subjective the music and sound effects on the Super Nintendo version sounds muffled as all hell, more than SNES games usually do.

If you want to get really technical, though, the Sega CD and Windows 95 versions are the best.

[Anonymous No.1175983]

OP here
>>1175973
During the 90s I was all about Nintendo, but even I have to admit the Megadrive version is superior. Not by much, though. No big differences.

It's a hard game and I haven't played for years, so I don't know if it has aged well. It's fun and funny, that much can't have changed.

[Anonymous No.1175982]

>>1175973

SNES looks and sounds better to me, but the Genesis has extra levels.

Go with Sega CD if possible, or play the PC version since it has the most content and sounds the best (Still prefer SNES soundtrack, though)

[Anonymous No.1175993]

>>1175778
What they did from Earthworm Jim was a pretty basic thing, nothing special. They just drew a picture, filled it in a bit and scaled it down then cleaned it up. It was pretty much marketing hype that they bothered to name the process. It'd be like throwing out an ad campaign these days for halo that you use surrealscan, when all you're doing is basic motion capture for models. Everyone understands the concept. Works for some not everyone. Though at the end of the day they still had to custom pluck pixels, it just helped with the work in some cases.

[Anonymous No.1175992]

>>1175980
>>1175982
>>1175983

Thanks for the superfast answers.
I'll see if I can get the Sega CD emu to work on my Wii, it works on my PSP so there's no reason it shouldn't on a damn Wii.

[Anonymous No.1176009]

>>1175982
Those extra levels really suck, TBH.

Ditto for the new one on the Sega CD.

[Anonymous No.1176027]

>>1176009

I don't they're very good, either.

But I might as well tell him to play the version with the most content. I think they're pretty unremarkable, to be honest. They feel like they got less love than levels like What The Heck!? and Level 5.

[Anonymous No.1176029]

>>1175993
>What they did from Earthworm Jim was a pretty basic thing
I agree
>nothing special
I disagree.
In my opinion any idea can fail or succeed. The execution is what's important, and when an idea is basic and manages to be effective, that is special.

WARNING: the following video may be too 90s even for this board: www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaiZva_-X9M

If they produced a traditionally animated game today, it'd look awesome. Back then of course you could see the pixels. You can see pixels in Kitana and you know the actress is smooth; but the technology had limitations. A hand-drawn game today could look like an actual cartoon both in movement and in smoothness.

[Anonymous No.1176164]

>>1176029
>That entire video

[Anonymous No.1176176]

This conversation is very interesting.

Traditional animation is all but dead nowdays..

[Anonymous No.1176181]

>>1175973

EWJ1: Sega CD version.
EWJ2: Sega Saturn version.

[Anonymous No.1176185]

I think monkey island III applies

THe generic soulless vectorized garbage that we see these days really needs to die

[Anonymous No.1176190]

>>1176029

I was not ready for that video.

[Anonymous No.1176197]

>>1176029
>beastie boys
>acid green
>dat montage

I'm surprised I didn't see rollerblades nor skateboards.

[Anonymous No.1176268]

>>1176197
Hey, I warned you. If the video gave you a mullet, you can only blame yourself.

[Anonymous No.1176274]

>>1176181
The 32bit ports of EWJ2 mangled up the background art VERY badly. Stick to the SNES and MD versions; the SNES has a lot of extra effects and way better backgrounds - better than the Saturn.

Saturn port wins at the music though. Moonlight Sonata is background music in a videogame? That's just rad.

[Anonymous No.1176276]

Other hand-drawn and animated games...

> Monkey Island Series
> Another World
> Beneath Steel Skies
...in short, it's all over anything adventure related.

[Anonymous No.1176279]

>>1176274
I've always wondered if it's Tallarico himself playing it, too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXwCrgWFx-Q

It sounds too vibrant to be sequenced, and the performance is just fantastic in every way.

[Anonymous No.1176327]

>>1176176
>Traditional animation is all but dead nowdays
Which is a good thing, right?

[Anonymous No.1176329]

>>1175778
>>1175928
>>1175942
>>1175983
Dude, I don't blame you. Back then I was under the idea things would turn for the better. That TV cartoons would get better as the years passed by, not despite the tech advancements; most things like entertainment quality are shit.

[Anonymous No.1176569]

OP here.
Speaking of claymation and games: www.youtube.com/watch?v=132yf17fiHc

I said before that I can't remember a single good claymation game. Well, I remember this one being badass. I don't know if it was actually good or if I liked it because it's X-TREME!

[Anonymous No.1176575]

>>1175928
>but picture a fighting game with actual cartoons, fluidly animated.
not retro but...
skullgirls

[Anonymous No.1176591]

>>1176279
Yeah, I wondered about that too. If it is sequenced, it is expertly done, with all volumes, forte passes, etc, near perfectly played out as if it was the real thing.

In fact the only reason why I think it's sequenced is because it is TOO perfect. At the very least, it was performed on an electric keyboard, not a real one.
It being too perfect was the reason that I considered it my de factor version of Moonlight Sonata, until I heard the Jeno Jando version. Those are even MORE perfect, but were recorded from a real concerto piano performance.

[Anonymous No.1176609]

>>1176569
Clay Fighter was pretty good for a wacky fighting game.

[Anonymous No.1176634]

>>1176575
Skullgirls looks nice and it is nice, but that's not what I'm talking about when I say traditional animation. The graphics are more than nice but they're obviously the product of a computer. You can tell the very talented artists are skilled at drawing and designing on a computer and the characters were never drawn by hand, frame by frame, and then individually photographed to create traditional animation.
I was talking about games that would be the logical evolution of Earthworm Jim, and this is not it.

[Anonymous No.1176639]

cool spot
boogerman

[Anonymous No.1176646]

>>1176591
>>1176279
Fun fact about the EWJ2 CD Audio tracks. On the PC version, they recorded the tracks 4-5 times in one track, because some CD drives of the day locked up the entire PC for a split second when doing audio track seeks. Except Lorenzo's Soil and the two Moonlight Sonatas, which were 5-6 minutes long to begin with.

It was also missing at least one level, I think it was either Lorenzo's Soil or the blind cave salamander level, not sure. All the music of the game is included as CD audio though.

[Anonymous No.1176652]

To really nail the anime look and make the sprites as intricate as possible, they drew them out first for both the Street Fighter Alpha series and Street Fighter 3.

[Anonymous No.1176653]

>>1176634
>the characters were never drawn by hand, frame by frame,

they were, just on a comp. that's what traditional animation actually is. frame-by-frame. the medium doesn't matter.

[Anonymous No.1176661]

>>1176029
never thought i would hear lard in 90's game promo

[Anonymous No.1176752]

>>1176653
They just don't look like I'm suggesting they could. Watch the intro of the original Thundercats or a scene from a Studio Ghibli film. Notice how it "feels" hand drawn.

As I said, SG has nice designs and fluid movement, but you know that at no point those were traditionally animated. In that sense, the humble and dated Eathworm Jim is closer to what I want to see.
With the power of modern consoles they could make some amazing looking games if they animated the characters traditionally. Hell, the imperfections and small flaws of traditional animation would make the game look more alive and warm than the cleanliness of the vectors from SG. That game doesn't look like a cartoon, it looks lile very, VERY well made flash animation: nice, cute, but sterile.

[Anonymous No.1176758]

I was thinking of replaying Earthworm Jim soon. I've heard the PC version is actually the best now. Yes no?

[Anonymous No.1176767]

>>1176752
>Watch the intro of the original Thundercats or a scene from a Studio Ghibli film.

Fun fact: Thundercats (And just about every other Rankin/Bass animated series and movie at the time e.g. The Last Unicorn, The Hobbit, etc.) was animated by Topcraft, who pretty much became Ghibli.

This has nothing to do with the conversation~

[Anonymous No.1176867]

>>1176752
>They just don't look like I'm suggesting they could. Watch the intro of the original Thundercats or a scene from a Studio Ghibli film. Notice how it "feels" hand drawn.

If you look at the EWJ making of video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaiZva_-X9M at 4:45 they show an example of animotion before it's scaled down for genesis and it looks very similar to animation done on the computer or in this case Skullgirls. I'd also be more than willing to bet that if a new EWJ was made it would be animated no the computer. Doug TenNapel even now does some of his comics digitally and it's almost impossible to tell the difference, one example being Ghostopolis.

>That game doesn't look like a cartoon, it looks lile very, VERY well made flash animation: nice, cute, but sterile.
I don't know what you're looking at but Skullgirls animation looks way better than any flash animation I've seen and looks better than most cartoons currently airing.

Point is, I think you're confusing nostalgia with style.

Sorry to go so offtopic.

[Anonymous No.1177470]

I am glad to see that topic on board
Hand drawn animation can be done on paper on digitally, it's not the medium but really the way of animating, are you using algorythms to automatise animation, such as interpolation in flash? I reckon there ahave been efforts made, like in Dofus for example, but frame by frame fluidity can't be compared, there are animation principles that deforms reality to make a stronger impression, squash and stretch, or like in capcom where the characters leave a trail when doing a swift movement, these are not real and need human process to be added, they're not rational, but our brains like it , it overexaggerates reality, even in the aladdin spritesheet, you can see the movement is so smooth and exagerated, that's what gives character.

I totally agree with OP, earthworm jim, aladdin, cool spot, and even street fighter alpha got the smoothest animation, its characteristic and it knows where its headed, far from sterile, exactly. and that's why these game are timeless, apart from good gameplay and graphics and so on, animation is really the life of the party and the movement imprints in your head, it brings flow to the game

look at the tex avery, or evn the old mickey mouse cartoons, its too much but that's what makes it work, they're not just copying reality but stretching it to the max and making connections to our brains so the idea is clear and funny

[Anonymous No.1177548]

>>1176327
hell no.
and by hell no i mean fuck no.
i miss it.
(but im old (32))

[Anonymous No.1179559]

>>1177548
That' old? Since when?

[Anonymous No.1179581]

>>1176867

Who cares about Doug TenNapel? he's a racist bigot.

[Anonymous No.1179582]

>>1179581
Oy Vey!

[Anonymous No.1179583]

>>1179581
Well, considering he's the one who animated the very game the thread is about, I think that's kind of relevant. That and the artist shouldn't reflect the art and all that nonsense.

[Anonymous No.1179615]

>>1176634
>drawn by hand, frame by frame, and then individually photographed to create traditional animation.
Correct me if I´m wrong, but the Metal Slug games have this same technique but in a more powerful machine (Neo-Geo).

[Anonymous No.1179640]

>>1175980
>Super Nintendo version is missing the Intestinal Distress level for some odd reason

Believe it or not, it was due to storage limitations

[Anonymous No.1179646]

>>1176029
>www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaiZva_-X9M

Jesus Christ those video toaster effects and stock footage

[Anonymous No.1179763]

Aren't some Capcom fighters made like this? Darkstalkers for example?

[Anonymous No.1179809]

>>1179640
>Believe it or not, it was due to storage limitations

You mean budget limitations. They could have used larger carts but they didn't. EWJ on the SNES was 3MB, large carts released even the year before were 4MB.

[Anonymous No.1180268]

>>1179646
That snot filled, alienesque beta level was fucking cool. I can´t understand why it didn´t make it to the retail game.

[Anonymous No.1180271]

Xenogears used hand drawn sprites. ( i wish ff7 had too)

[Anonymous No.1180364]

Rayman was made by a real animation studio if I recall correctly

[Anonymous No.1180378]

>>1180271

[Anonymous No.1180437]

Not sure if it's quite old enough to be retro, but Vanillaware's stuff, like Odin Sphere, all has a nice hand-painted look. As for older stuff, Mickey Mania has some fairly nice hand-drawn animation. Comix Zone's animation is a little on the jerky side, but the sprites are all done in a hand-drawn comic book style that makes for a fairly impressive overall effect.

[Anonymous No.1181439]

>>1180437
>Vanillaware's stuff

I was going to mention that.

Muramasa looks godly on my PVM. It also helps that Wii games are dirt cheap now; get 'em while you can!

[Anonymous No.1181442]

>>1179640
256 color graphics take more space than the original 64 color ones indeed.

The same reason why Snes's Toy Story also got stuf axed.

[Anonymous No.1181539]

>>1179581

Bigot maybe but racist?
When did he say racist things?
I only remember him speaking against same-sex marriage.

[Anonymous No.1181950]

>>1181539
>I only remember him speaking against same-sex marriage
That's kinda sad. I'm not ever gonna say everyone should agree with me, but about this particular issue he's gonna end up in the wrong side of history.

[Anonymous No.1181974]

>>1181950
>muh wrong side

[Anonymous No.1182021]

>>1181950
>being this jewish

[Anonymous No.1182041]

>>1181950

It's just shit how he got sucked into all that with that one comic strip he made; and coincidentally when they were trying to get funding for that one successor to Neverhood: Armikrog.

[Anonymous No.1182053]

>>1176575
The street Fighter Alpha series had hand-drawn sprites. most of Capcom's CPS2 and CPS3 efforts, in fact, had hand-drawn sprites.

[Anonymous No.1182070]

>>1182041

He's always been that way, posted about shit like that all the time on his personal sites new page

He was also a bit of creepy douche about people disagreeing with his stances on Islam and gay people/same sex marriage, like to the point where he was stalking people on twitter

[Anonymous No.1182075]

>>1182041

He's always been that way, posted about shit like that all the time on his personal sites news page

He was also a bit of creepy douche about people disagreeing with his stances on Islam and gay people/same sex marriage, like to the point where he was stalking people on twitter

I think he got rid of most of that stuff though, and if you wanted to take a look for yourself you'd probably have to do with the waybackmachine

[Anonymous No.1182087]

>>1182041
It certainly didn't hurt him. Armrikog was being advertised on /v/ hourly and being the den of trolls it is, discussing "degenerate" gays only made it more popular.
I wouldn't even know about his irrelevant political beliefs if the trolls didn't insist on reminding everyone, in between feminism threads.

[Anonymous No.1182098]

>>1182087

I created a lot of anti-Armikrog threads on dozens of different forums. I was so disappointed when the game got funded.

[Anonymous No.1182102]

>>1181442
Actually no. Both SNES and Genesis use 16-color graphics, but they extend their color capabilities by applying different 16-color palettes to different sprites and background tiles. The Genesis can only do 4 separate palettes (hence "64 colors") while the SNES has 8 for sprites and another 8 for background tiles (hence "256 colors"). SNES is nothing like 256 color VGA graphics, and the data is four bits per pixel just like Genesis graphics.

However, the SNES uses bitplane data instead of packed pixel data, which doesn't compress as well (and the CPU isn't as good for decompression either way) so SNES graphics tended to be less compressed and take up more space. It also used sample-based audio which took up space, whereas the Genesis generally used FM synthesis for all instruments aside from drum samples.

[Anonymous No.1182130]

>>1182098
Good, I hate people like you.

[Anonymous No.1182194]

>>1176575
who drew the characters the faces are shit, was it the animator for E-surance commercials? They have the same stupid noses.
>>1176752
exactly,

[Anonymous No.1182203]

>>1175778
Drawing vg artwork and scanning it in was not and is not a rare thing. The only thing rare is pretending it's something special to hype a game.

[Anonymous No.1183413]

The actual Earthworm Jim cartoon is any good?

[Anonymous No.1183836]

>>1181950
>about this particular issue he's gonna end up in the wrong side of history.
I don't think so.
It is a fact that male-on-male sex is objectively degenerate and immoral, as gays are responsible for the spread of all sorts of diseases. In the West, HIV/AIDS is essentially a gay phenomenon. The gay community provides a fertile breeding ground for new and aggressive strains of mutated diseases. Not that gays getting diseases in and of itself is a bad thing, the problem is that these diseases are eventually spread to the heterosexual part of society by bisexuals and injection drug users, as well as health workers who work with gay patients.
Due to socialized medicine, Gays also receive treatment for their various diseases on the taxpayer's dime. This is a waste of taxes, and the money could be spent on things that are much more beneficial to society than keeping fags alive, such as science and education.

The current relatively high status of gays in our society (keep in mind that homosexuality was illegal in most western countries up until just a few decades ago) can only be maintained by keeping the public in the dark about these and many other facts concerning the LGBT community. Now one might ask why the media isn't making these facts more known through public debate. Well, according to the Vice President of the United States, this is because the Jews use their control of the media to promote homosexuality (as well as mass-immigration):
http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2013/05/joe-bidens-faux-pas/
However, Jews do not promote these things out of the kindness of their hearts and sympathy for fags and brown people, but simply because they see gays and immigrants as good tools for destroying society, and diminishing the power of what they see as their main competitor in the US, European-derived white people. They will drop you gays the minute you cease being useful to them.

[Mr-DNA No.1183840]

>>1183836
>immoral
>fact

Wow, what a faggot.

[Anonymous No.1183850]

>>1179581
Fuck off and quit spamming the board with this shit.
>>1181950
History isn't some linear progression from barbarity to enlightenment. If anything, future generations will see as us being as decadent and self-indulgent as ancient Rome.

[Anonymous No.1183878]

>>1183836
/pol/ plz fucking leave. Immoral? It doesn't hurt anyone but the participants whats so immoral about that? You guys all blame the jews for making you into tax paying debt slaves when you want to do the same shit by telling me my crack habbit is degenrate and I need to work hard to support the rest of society. Seriously nazi fascist faggots are just as bad as the slave drivers.

[Anonymous No.1186001]

>>1183850
>future generations will see as us being as decadent and self-indulgent as ancient Rome
Nah. Our ways will be their guide. We're creating the best possible future.

Anyway, games that are cartoons and Earthworm Fucking Jim! Come on, thread!

[Anonymous No.1186232]

>>1176029
Rayman Origins is hand drawn I think

[Anonymous No.1186246]

>>1183413
It's one of the best video game cartoons I've ever seen

[Stumpbot No.1186267]

>>1176181
Yeah, these are the essential versions.

[Anonymous No.1189589]

>>1176181
Darn, I don't have those consoles.
Well, time to buy them...

[Anonymous No.1190675]

>>1186001
Yes. The furture generation who inhabit the Peoples Democratic Republic of Jobsworld will receive daily reminders of this though the iphone 70 rectal interface

[Anonymous No.1190696]

>>1176029
>tfw you will never be 90s cartoonist/vidya developer