/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.1152176]

Am i right to say this is not a highly regarded RPG nowadays? Why is that? It was extremely lauded when it came out, seen as almost equal to FF7 by many.

[Anonymous No.1152250]

>>1152176
RE: DIsk 2.

Thanks FF8.

[Anonymous No.1152258]

Disc 2. Xenoblade is better. Yadayada.

[Anonymous No.1152261]

>>1152176
I personally find it a better than average PSX JRPG, even with Disc 2 being the way it is.

>>1152250
>still blaming FF8
It's the team's fault for blowing all their money on Disc 1 and being over-budget.

[Anonymous No.1152264]

>>1152261
Jrpg is my favorite genre.

[Anonymous No.1152265]

>>1152250
FF8 was truly the worst in the FF franchise

[Anonymous No.1152276]

>>1152261
It was definitely quite a bit ballsier than a lot of other JRPGS. It actually managed to not be uber grimdark, despite the nature of the plot.

Didn't their budget just get taken over by FF8? I don't remember it being so much about financial irresponsibility. Even if it was, they made a god-tier disk 1, so I'm cool with however much they spent on it.

[Anonymous No.1152281]

>>1152276
>Didn't their budget just get taken over by FF8?
It's a popular theory, but there's never been any evidence that funds were taken away from Xenogears and given to FF8's development. It's more likely that they underestimated how much money they needed for the project and the higher ups decided not to give them more money because they'd rather those funds go to FF8.

[Anonymous No.1152283]

>>1152281
Well, I actually learned something today. Thanks Anon.

I'm not being sarcastic

[Anonymous No.1152289]

>>1152283
No one thought you were.

[Anonymous No.1152304]

>>1152264
JRPG is not a genre.

[Anonymous No.1152312]

>>1152176
>Why is that?

I'll let this explain it all:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkRJzErnRmY

[Anonymous No.1152651]

I think the biggest problem with Xenogear's legacy is that the game's replay value is zilch. It's a long game that is not very fun outside of the first time that you're experiencing the story.

On a different note, I actually enjoyed Disc 2. At that point (60? hours) into the game, I had seen every bit of gameplay that XG offered, and was far more interested in the story. So, the quickened plot advancement was much appreciated.

Also in before >gameplay >jRPG

[Anonymous No.1152657]

>>1152651
>the game's replay value is zilch.

I'd argue that it's worth replaying for the story. Your understanding of the story will be much greater if you play it multiple times. The most obvious example is with the Gazel Ministry's conversations scattered throughout the game. The first time through, they seem almost nonsensical, but on subsequent playthroughs, you can piece together what they're talking about. There's also a lot of small things that you'd gloss over on the first time and not think anything of it.

[Anonymous No.1152768]

It is still my favorite RPG. Followed by Planescape Torment and Suikoden 2

[Anonymous No.1152816]

It's a game born out of 90s Evangelion hype. Thus it always was shit and only got positive reviews thanks to the time frame it came out. It's a unfinished mess that tries to be deep for the sole sake of being deep. It has no lasting message to it "deepness".

[Anonymous No.1152818]

It aged fucking horribly. Both XG and FFVII are barely playable anymore nostalgia goggles or not.

[Anonymous No.1152821]

>>1152816

You are kind of selling short the battle system.

Also, the Gears were not the center of the story as you spent much more time on foot and in non-gear fights.

As far as deep for deep sake, maybe. I was a pre-teen at the time who's first turn based RPG was Wild Arms. The fact that the story dared not to be light hearted like most of the others that I played before it, Breath of Fire, Final Fantasy was something that I could appreciate but my experience with jrpgs was very low.

[Anonymous No.1152842]

>>1152818
In what ways?

[Anonymous No.1152853]

>>1152818
Where do you think you are?

[Anonymous No.1152857]

>>1152842
He's still bitter than FF VII is more popular and acclaimed than whatever obscure import only jrpg he is still obsessed with.

[chinatown No.1152859]

>>1152821
chiming in, i love all variety of oldschool JPRGs (i am not averse to turn-based).
the battle system of xenogears, despite being a game i certainly enjoyed playing, was, from my perspective, garbage. i am speaking from personal experience and opinion; i am open to argument supporting the resolution that the battle system is not garbage so by all means do not treat me like bait (i liked the game). but the game's battles sucked. gear battles were 99% the same 2 turns over and over again until you won (attack then deathblow). in boss battles, activate haste and do the same thing. 99% of the abilities usable by the regular characters were useless next to the character's most powerful deathblow.
in my experience, the "best" most efficient way to play was to do more damage than your opponent in any way possible. i do not remember any battles that required any degree of strategy to beat. in fact, i remember quite the opposite: in battles in which i attempted to use some form of strategy (be it by buffing/de-buffing or basically doing anything that wasn't powerful deathblows) and then lost, i would switch to the "just attack as much as possible" method and 9 times out of 10 that would be the "correct" method to win.
i am not an expert at this game and if you can convince me that i am wrong then you will also convince me to play through this game again.

[Anonymous No.1152861]

>>1152857

>playing JRPGs

[Anonymous No.1152864]

>>1152861
>playing Canadian sodomy simulators

shiggy

[Anonymous No.1152924]

To be honest, i think Xenogears is either an "obscure" game (kinda like Dragon Quest, but more "obscure") or people just couldn't deal with a story heavy game and just didn't finish it.

The fact that even in 4chan the game is barely mentioned tells you something. I don't believe the disc 2 is the reason of its unpopularity or its unrecognition.

>>1152859

To be honest, your description is valid to every turn based JRPG (the only strategy JRPG i played was FFT, but that one had too much RNG for my tastes, so i didn't bother with others).

You just use your strongest attack, heal/revive when needed and thats it. And i never grinded in any of the JRPGs i played. I personally played the genre for the satisfaction of getting stronger and getting new items/abilities.

That said, i agree with you on Xenogears having a shitty gameplay, but my reason is because most characters were basically the same, barely any equipment ponderation and you had to play 20h to get a new deathblow (fuck Ether, they were all shit).

At least on others JRPG i had to think if it would be better to use Attack, Magic or Special Ability or just run against normal enemies (to preserve resources for the boss fight), instead of just spam deathblow, get free recovery items and repeat it on the boss.

[Anonymous No.1152935]

I really liked Xenogears.

Liked it a lot more than most other PS1 JRPGs.

[Anonymous No.1152956]

>>1152924
>Xenogears is either an "obscure" game (kinda like Dragon Quest, but more "obscure"
u wot m8

[Anonymous No.1152964]

>>1152935
Is... is that Rossiu from TTGL?

[Anonymous No.1152971]

>>1152964
Sure.

[Anonymous No.1152973]

Gamers weren't used to edgy bible-referencing plots back then.
+You can't put this game on the same tier with FF7 when it pretty much shits itself for whole second disc.

I call it Fahrenheit syndrome.

>Half of the game is shit but you should totally ignore it for no reason! Just because first half was kind of cool.

[Anonymous No.1152976]

>>1152973

But the second disc is the best part.

[Anonymous No.1152985]

>>1152973
The 2nd disc was just the final boss. 1st disc was the game.

[Anonymous No.1152995]

>>1152985
It turned already pretentious plot into fetid mess of DEEP.

[Anonymous No.1153014]

>>1152176

The terribly blocky graphics made it hard to look at even back when it was released.

[Anonymous No.1153089]

>>1152956

I mean in comparison with Final Fantasy, which is the initial point of OP. Maybe i should've put Fire Emblem or something instead of Dragon Quest.

Sure, most people who enjoy or enjoyed JRPGs at least know the name, but there is a relevant bunch of players who didn't play them in comparison to the ones JRPG players who played Final Fantasy.

PERSONALLY i think that even Tales of series was more played (til the end) by the western than Dragon Quest, but lets not derail the thread.

>>1152995

Couldn't the same be said about FF7 (played too long ago, barely remember anything) ? And most of the praise i see it was because it had an awesome history for its time.

>>1152973

Xenogears is literally the Death Note of videogames, and when you look at OP 1st question with that in mind:

>Am i right to say this is not a highly regarded RPG nowadays?

You have to wonder if Death Note just isn't old enough to be forgotten or if Xenogears wasn't played by many to begin with.

[Anonymous No.1153102]

>>1152973
I liked the second disc too. I also like balloon shorts.

[Anonymous No.1153114]

I actually have yet to play it but I hear it's pretty much the NGE of video games

[Anonymous No.1153116]

The story was really good but it could have been executed a lot better. The story telling bits were way too long and needed to be broken up with more bits of gameplay in between (I spent a hell of a lot of time just reading and pressing X) and it becomes easy to just get bored. The battle system was different but I can't say I really liked it that much. Personal preference.

It does have a pretty fantastic story though. Even though I know i'm going to flamed for this, I think this would have been better as a movie or anime series than a game.

[Anonymous No.1153272]

>>1152250
thats an unsourced rumor. budget cuts due to FF were likely, but you can also blame the developers for being overly ambitious and mismanaging resources.

great fucking game though. its my favorite

[testamentmantelroth No.1153305]

>>1153116
>It does have a pretty fantastic story though. Even though I know i'm going to flamed for this, I think this would have been better as a movie or anime series than a game.

thats pretty fair. the animation was done by production I.G (G.i.t.S, evangelion)
good quality, but the NA dub was shit. it was also the first SquareSoft game to feature voiced cutscenes.

[testament !!Ohx9nU37v7q No.1153316]

[testament !!Ohx9nU37v7q No.1153313]

>>1153116
>It does have a pretty fantastic story though. Even though I know i'm going to flamed for this, I think this would have been better as a movie or anime series than a game.

thats pretty fair. the animation was done by production I.G (G.i.t.S, evangelion)
good quality, but the NA dub was shit. it was also the first SquareSoft game to feature voiced cutscenes.

[Anonymous No.1154734]

Frankly, the whole thing should be remade into a VN, including the other five parts that didn't get made into games (not counting the bastardized editions we got with Xenosaga 1-3).

[Testament !!Ohx9nU37v7q No.1154907]

>>1154734
>the other five parts that didn't get made into games
episode I was rewritten as the Xenosaga trilogy
episodes II, III, and IV were shown in-game
episode V is Fei's arc
episode VI is the only unreleased part

>a xenogears remake
it would be an impossible task. just accept it for the flawed and incomplete masterpiece that it is

i would like to see Monolith Soft outdo it though. let's say a 3DS game using an improved xenogears art style, with anime cutscenes and all

[Anonymous No.1154997]

>>1152176

It's ignored because most people who originally played it got pushed into a higher universe by the mind-blasting purity of the perfect philosophy it presented, and most of the rest simply erased the memory from their minds as an unconscious defense against taking in such a complex, flawless body of knowledge when they were not ready for it (these were mostly gaijins of course ^_^).

A little bit of hype got out but it died away when people exposed to it actually got around to playing the game. This game was simply too good and too deep for humanity.

[Anonymous No.1155016]

>>1154907
>episode I was rewritten as the Xenosaga trilogy
They are unrelated to Xenogears 1-6; not only that, they are shitty. Their "connections" to 'Gears are homages at best. What happens in the story makes no sense to Perfect Works or the events that lead up to Part V.

>it would be an impossible task. just accept it for the flawed and incomplete masterpiece that it is
Could easily be accomplished in visual novel format. I say we launch a kickstarter and get T. Takahashi's attention about it, maybe get a demo game ready and show it off.

[Testament !!Ohx9nU37v7q No.1155042]

>>1155016
>VN
waste of time. someone made a graphical script.

>xenosaga
>unrelated to xenogears
they are fundamentally related. whether or not they are 'connected' or in the same universe can be left to the player's interpretations. i'd say that to truly understand gears, you'd have to understand xenosaga as well.
xenosaga did many things better than gears, but it gets a lot of hate from gears fans. if xenosaga used an improved xenogears art-style it would have been more well received. it probably would have been more commercially successful as well

[Anonymous No.1155109]

>>1155042
> if xenosaga used an improved xenogears art-style it would have been more well received
Lies. It was already trying too hard to emulate Xenogears' portrait artstyle, which made most of the cast look like babyfaced (literally) dolls with cherubic cheeks.

Not to mention, from my experience with Episode 1 and the intro to Episode 2:
>Shion's VA being obnoxiously monotone, as well as the character responding more like a scolding mother rather than a fugitive
>Every party member except KOS-MOS and Jr. feel irrelevant to the plot
>Cherenkov's character arc was horribly paced, and only got the sentimental bits in the end
>FUCKING MOMO AND HER PANTY PANDERING
>lack of diverse soundtrack in Episode 1
>more corridors than FFX
>Jin being more interesting than her sister

Those are the ones just off the top of my head, but even though Xenogears had party characters with wasted potential, I felt Xenosaga had characters with NO potential. Nearly every character I liked ended up being a villain.

[Testament !!Ohx9nU37v7q No.1155150]

>>1155109
>Nearly every character I liked ended up being a villain.
there are no villains. xenosaga is simply not for you it seems

one could make a similar set of complaints about xenogears, just saying.
i prefer xenogears, but i do think xenosaga is better on a technical level

[Anonymous No.1155240]

>>1155150
>there are no villains
What do you call Albedo then? A man-child? Just some punk with a weird obsession? A wannabe-pediatrician-turned-school-bully?

What about Virgil? He was snorting up Realians and wasted them at every opportunity with thinly-veiled excuses - regardless if he had a bad experience with one, the man's at least a war criminal.

I get what you're saying, their motivations seem to be justified in the end, but whitewashing their misdeeds and their role in the story is not a good way to go about characters. Best example is how they superimposed Albedo into a messianic figure by being whisked away in a crucifix pose - it's not only using it as a lauded symbol (like Chuchu was) but also deliberately ironic that this (somewhat) tragic monster is now an idol of suffering. I liked to hate Albedo not because he emulated a stoic philosopher, but how he reveled in expressing his hatred in ways no sane person could, much like Ramsus, Grahf and Id.

Call them what you want, but apart from Ziggy, Jin, and KOS-MOS, the antagonists were much better-written to be likable characters and less prone to ill-performed melodrama.

But this is irrelevant to how the Xeno series will be remembered, like pic related.

[Testament !!Ohx9nU37v7q No.1155326]

>>1155240
>he reveled in expressing his hatred in ways no sane person could, much like Ramsus, Grahf and Id.
the psychology involved is very interesting
the Testaments all go through extreme circumstances that drove them to become what they were. similar to Lacan's transformation to Grahf or the path Krelian took.
their actions may make them seem wrong. sometimes they are, but the path that took them there is what makes them more than simply "evil" or "bad guys". they are the antagonists for very good reasons, but it's fairly complex. all the main protags have a great deal of development too and most of them are just as interesting i think

>bablel tower
there's a trick to making the jumps. just rotate the camera like pic related and line up your jump with the light-colored section. the pre-battle stutter is a pretty shitty bug tho

[Anonymous No.1155347]

It's an incredible story that manages to drag you through a complete shitpile of a game for 60~70 hours.

>>1154734
Basically, this. The story progression and gameplay is completely linear, Disc 2 was pretty much halfway to being a VN anyhow due to budget reasons, and it's not like anything of value would be lost if the mediocre RPG system was dropped altogether. The whole thing may as well have been one big cut scene as the actual 'game' just gets in the way and isn't worth playing on its own merits.

[Anonymous No.1155535]

>>1155347
Am I the only person who liked the gameplay? Step up from FF7 in almost every regard imo.

[Anonymous No.1155671]

>>1152816
Xenogears did capitalize on the post-Evangelion hype about "deep" plots, but it has something Evangelion didn't have; a plot that actually makes sense.

And everyone seems to forget that Evangelion is heavily inspired by Space Runaway Ideon, which is a superior show.

[Anonymous No.1155696]

>>1152657
True dat, I played this thing when I was 12 and I'm pretty sure a lot of stuff just flew right over my head. I've always felt like replaying, but my childhood memories make the game feel a lot longer than it probably is, seriously, I could swear I spent like 2 or 3 months playing this to the finish, and that was back when I had plenty of free time.

[Anonymous No.1155714]

>>1152265
yes it was, but it was the most popular due to its faggotry... ff7 is actually shit and ff9 was da best

[Anonymous No.1155717]

>>1152281
thats true cuz ff8 was riding on the success of ff7 so square wanted to make sure ff8 would be made perfectly

[Anonymous No.1155780]

>>1153089
>Couldn't the same be said about FF7 (played too long ago, barely remember anything) ?
Not really. FF7 got a bit self-indulgent and even downright stupid at times but it managed to keep the bullshit in check for the most part.