Hardest games of all time

[Anonymous No.11065140]

Let's compile some of the hardest (retro) games ever made, and try to figure out what the most nigh impossible single player game ever is, starting with a classic: Wizardry 4

[Anonymous No.11065142]

[Anonymous No.11065145]

I heard someone say Lode Runner is extremely hard without a guide. True?

[Anonymous No.11065156]

(In)famous list of difficulty for shoot 'em ups
https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=56114
Same but for classic shooters
https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=59651

Higher number = harder game
As of this year, I don't know of any major feat in these games that has yet to be accomplished outside of self-imposed challenges. The big thing this year was someone finally defeating inbachi in dodonpachi saidaioujou during a full game run which had never been done before. It was later performed in an arcade by the same guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCRI69pQpY0
I want to try getting good at gradius 3 sometime personally

[Anonymous No.11065282]

Probably Zelda ocarina of time

[Anonymous No.11065370]

>>11065156
Shmups can easily be beaten through a bit of rote memorization though.

[Anonymous No.11065379]

>>11065140
menus and praying for good rng arent difficulty.

[Anonymous No.11065383]

>>11065145
>men

[Anonymous No.11065398]

Trying to 100% Kuru Kuru Kururin rn. That is what comes to mind from what I played at least.

[Anonymous No.11065402]

>>11065370
All because you know a layout doesn't mean you can actually execute it anon

[Anonymous No.11065414]

>>11065402
Moving away from bright pink globs and mashing the fire button doesn't require a high level of execution, anon.

[Anonymous No.11065415]

>>11065414
lol okay non-player

[Anonymous No.11065425]

>>11065415
>Immediately resorting to an ad hominem attack
Concession accepted.

[Anonymous No.11065429]

>>11065425
>Boiled argument down to an extremely reductive "just dodge" non-argument
It was over for you before it even began.

[Anonymous No.11065432]

>>11065140
This shit gets insane on higher difficulties. You really have to know what you’re doing.

[Anonymous No.11065434]

Hardest game of all time: Dodonpachi Daioujou Death Label. AFAIK only 2 people managed to clear it

[Anonymous No.11065441]

>>11065432
Is that the hardest civ game? Might be fun

[Anonymous No.11065448]

>>11065429
Pointing out flaws in a genre is not a non-argument.

[Anonymous No.11065449]

>>11065448
How is it a flaw? Its just simply gameplay.
You could say the exact same thing about platformers.

[Anonymous No.11065459]

I got until Hawkwind and gave up. Returned to it after reading on a forum the answer was A FUCKING DINK And the way you are supposed to know this infuriates me to this day.

[Anonymous No.11065462]

Can anyone confirm if the puzzles in this game are ridiculous?
>spanish edition

[Anonymous No.11065515]

>>11065449
Platformers actually have depth and innovation when it comes to movement. Shmups, at best, have a slow ship, a fast ship, and GASP a moderately speedy ship!?!?
There's a reason why shmups are considered a dead genre. Move on.

[Anonymous No.11065524]

>>11065462
For me there was only one puzzle that I absolutely couldn't figure out, the racetrack ticket one, which is kind of famous for being obtuse. The rest of the game is pretty challenging, but not impossible to figure out on your own.

[Anonymous No.11065607]

>>11065414
i fucking hate basically all shmups except for the best one, obviously, which is B A T T L E M A N I A 2 but youre just being a fucking pissant
the entire draw of shmups over other genres is how heavy they are on execution

[Anonymous No.11065631]

Gonna try to name some that don't get brought up often.

Irritating Stick (PS1, N64)
The Dark Heart of Uukrul (DOS)
7th Saga (SNES)
Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter (PS2)
Descent (PC)
Contra: Shattered Soldier (PS2)

[Anonymous No.11065637]

>>11065607
>it's just weird how western cover art is 50% classically trained artist and 50% "my 4 year old son drew this so I put it on the game"
And there's a case of eastern cover art being both at the same time.

[Anonymous No.11065646]

>>11065425
He says this shit because if you actually bother to do more than credit feed on a shmup and learn it, you would know instantly that your claim is outright untrue. Especially if you try to go for score, less so if you try to 1cc. Maybe it is just "memorization" with either really old shmups or kusoge, but if you bother spending any time on any game you would know even at the start its significantly more involved than just muh memorization of bullets and enemies. So why bother responding if you're just baiting?

[Anonymous No.11065658]

>>11065637
wrong thread? or are you talking about B A T T L E M A N I A 2?
cuz i dont think that one came out in the west

[Anonymous No.11065659]

>>11065631
Uukrul is a hidden masterpiece. It's a very unorthodox mapping game.

[Anonymous No.11065751]

>>11065142
They did remake Wiz4 in Japan though, on the PS1 release Wizardry: New Age of Llylgamyn. Otherwise that anon is right that it's a really gay, obtuse and masochistic game even by Wizardry standards that almost sunk the series.

[Anonymous No.11065768]

>>11065370
post your clears

[Anonymous No.11065804]

>>11065383
>t. riggered

[Anonymous No.11065819]

>>11065515
>get btfo in an argument you were stupid to have in the first place
>proceed to post the dumbest shit you can think of hoping people will think you were baiting the whole time and not just retarded
many such cases

[Anonymous No.11065827]

>>11065140
>Spider-Man vs. The Kingpin (Game Gear)
Having only a single life, no way to get health up besides giving up time on your very strict 24min times to finish the whole thing, and a bad view thanks to the lower resolution on Game Gear... make this quite a tough one, it doesn't help that enemies and hazards can be cheap, and that you get no post-hit invincibility at all... you can die so fast here, and then it's back to the beggining too.

[Anonymous No.11065854]

Here's a contender. As a kid I bought a used copy from a pawn shop and it had teeth marks on it. After playing it, I found out why.

[Anonymous No.11065870]

>>11065854
yea puzzle games where the """puzzle""" is literally
>just fucking find it retard
>with no indication of anything being hidden
suck ass. idk about "hard" tho. like if all else fails you can still brute force it and mash buttons on every block until something happens. or subscribe to nintendo power.
but theres a lot of other games out there where even that wouldnt be enough

[Anonymous No.11067150]

>>11065140
Sonic 2 on Game Gear.
No, I'm not kidding.
Fuck its 1st boss.

Oh, and Scrambled Egg Zone can suck a dick.

[Anonymous No.11067172]

the original "Prepare to Die"

[Anonymous No.11067174]

>>11065751
If anything, Wizardry 4 revived the series. By then, it had been 4 years since Wizardry 3 had released, and 1-3 all used the same engine, graphics, everything really. Fans already complained about 5 not really being much of a graphical upgrade from 1-3, imagine if it had been released as 4. Instead they brought out an extreme challenge, the fans dug into it for a year, then were happy to get a standard difficulty Wizardry game with 5. 4 also shut up the complainers who were saying Wizardry was the easy series compared to Ultima.

[Anonymous No.11067181]

You know you're in for some fun when what feels like half of the longplays (not even speedruns) on Youtube are tool-assisted.

[Anonymous No.11067216]

>>11067174
This. Wizardry 4 reviewed pretty well in core magazines at release. But by 1987 the general audience wanted something like The Bard's Tale in terms of scope.

[Anonymous No.11067351]

>>11067174
>saying Wizardry was the easy series compared to Ultima
I find it hard to believe anyone was ever saying that

[Anonymous No.11067601]

What is /vr/'s opinion of the hardest NES game?

Been playing Ghouls 'n Ghosts and within about 6 hours I've nearly conquered it. The mid stage checkpoints of stages 2 and 3 are brutal but the rest of the game isn't bad at all. I wonder if battletoads is much harder

[Anonymous No.11067604]

>>11067601
GnG is rough, but the infinite continues makes it doable. That second stage is a real road block though. Battletoads is much harder.

[Anonymous No.11067671]

>>11067601
GnG is not a difficult game. Adventure Island, 1943, Star Force, Ikari Warriors. Look for those.

[Anonymous No.11068076]

>>11065646
>>11065819
>Resorts to calling my arguments bait now
>Still no counter-argument made
Shmuptranny status: mindbroken.

[Anonymous No.11068087]

>>11065145
championship lode runner is considered one of the hardest famicom games ever made

[Anonymous No.11068090]

>>11065768
>post your clears
horrible argument
many pce and genesis shooters can be 1cced with minimal to some practice

[Anonymous No.11068130]

Here is my no-miss clears from hardest to easiest. Note I do practice with save-states. Of course the real runs are done single segment, with no save-states/rewind, no cheats, no slow-mo. But I do use autofire as is standard for shmups/arcade games.

Should give perspective, esp in conjunction with other difficulty lists

Note: Rating is for survival for the criteria stated, plus score in games that I did light scoring. Default dips. 1 loop unless stated otherwise. Mostly JP versions
1. Rayforce nomiss (5m+)
2. Sonic Wings 2all nomiss
3. Tiger-Heli 2all nomiss
4. Mushi 1.0 OG nomiss
5. 1944 nomiss
6. R-Type 2 JP 2all nomiss
7. Gun.Smoke nomiss
8. Daisenpu 2all nomiss
9. Metal Slug 2 nomiss
10. (non-retro game)
11. Sunset Riders 2all nomiss
12. (non-retro game)
13. Makaimura 2all nomiss
14. Batsugun OG nomiss
15. Sengoku Ace 2all nomiss (1.5m+)
16. Metal Slug 6 nomiss
17. Metal Slug X nomiss
18. (non-retro game)
19. R-Type 2all nomiss
20. Metal Slug 3 nomiss
21. Metal Slug 4 nomiss
22. Metal Slug 5 nomiss
23. (non-retro game)
24. OutZone nomiss nobomb
25. In The Hunt nomiss
26. R-Type Leo nomiss
27. Metal Slug 1 nomiss
28. Rastan Saga nomiss
29. PCE Sapphire nomiss (1.1m+)
30. Hishouzame 2all nomiss
31. Shock Troopers nomiss
32. Splatterhouse nomiss
33. GI Joe nomiss (2850+)
34. Contra Hard Corps nomiss
35. Geo Storm nomiss
36. 1941 nomiss (10m+)
37. Darius 2 nomiss
38. Fixeight JP nomiss
39. Silver Surfer nomiss
40. Carrier Airwing nomiss no subweapons
41. Cadash US Fighter nomiss
42. Elevator Action Returns Hardest nomiss
43. Space Bomber nomiss
44. Nexzr nomiss
45. Aliens AC nomiss
46. Darius Gaiden nomiss
47. Blazing Star nomiss
48. Gradius nomiss
49. Super Contra AC nomiss
50. Moo Mesa 2all nomiss
51. Contra NES nomiss
52. Super C NES nomiss
53. Juuouki nomiss
54. Spinmaster nomiss
55. Mercs nomiss
56. Operation C nomiss
57. Alien Syndrome JP nomiss
58. Kiki Kaikai nomiss
59. Abadox nomiss
60. Contra AC nomiss
61. Soldier Blade nomiss
62. Golden Axe nomiss

[Anonymous No.11068142]

>>11068076
Alright retard-kun. Unlike the other anons I'll show the stupidity of your point.
Pattern recognition and memorization is a core part of most video games. If things were so easy as to "memorize obstacle, then play and dodge obstacle" no video game would be actually difficult in any way.
Reflexes and coordination play a big role. Having your reflexes follow up and using your hands accurately while keeping the memorized patterns in mind is the difficult part of hard shmups. Easy shmups are the only ones that can be circumvented by pure memorization and little else.

Let's take an example you brought up. Platformers operate on a very similar level. Assuming a level is hard (i.e. you die in it), you'll start memorizing it. If you memorized it and still can't beat it, you need your reflexes to follow up on what you memorized or maybe you'll need to learn to execute a specific button combination correctly.
It doesn't matter how many buttons you need to press or what powerups the game has. At their very core, most difficult games (that are action-oriented and not puzzle-oriented) are difficult because pure memory is not enough. If memory was enough you could watch a let's play of a hard game on repeat for an entire day and then beat any game very easily afterwards.

[Anonymous No.11068263]

>>11065414
Post Mushihimesama 1CC

[Anonymous No.11068265]

>>11065524
It's not that it's "obtuse", it's more that a major clue can be easily missed because if you talk to Nick at the High Roller's Lounge (he is literally the first person you can talk to in there) he'll go into Max's office and you wont be able to enter, and Max holds the most important clues for the puzzle.

[Anonymous No.11068492]

>>11067671
>GnG is not a difficult game.
Go beat it without using the dagger/axe then

[Anonymous No.11068608]

>>11068130
>Note I do practice with save-states. Of course the real runs are done single segment, with no save-states/rewind, no cheats, no slow-mo. But I do use autofire as is standard for shmups/arcade games.
I always feel cheap for doing save-state practice in shoot em ups. I know every top player in the world does it but I think back to arcades 25+ years ago where people used to score big just on credits. Though pushing the bar further is what matters in the end I guess. All sports have some controversy where people discover a new tactic that completely rewrites the game like 3 pointers in basketball or aerodynamic balls in bowling. I learned to 1cc ikaruga without save states and I wasted a lot of time

[Anonymous No.11068697]

>>11065140
I love Ghosts' n Goblins. The entire franchise is a masterpiece. The level design, how the enemies interact. The freedom provided by the limited jump.

[Anonymous No.11068702]

>>11068492
NES version and the SNES (without the slowdown fix patch) feels ass when compared to the arcade. Also, the dagger is just an AVGN meme. The dagger and the lance are extremely well balanced, one is faster but less damage, one is slow but more damage.

[Anonymous No.11068756]

>>11067150
This game is the single reason I never bothered to buy any of the other 10 Sonic games on Game Gear.

[Anonymous No.11069031]

>>11068702
Shame they nerfed the lance in the sequel. The weapon balance of the sequel is just really poor in general

[Anonymous No.11069045]

>>11067351
It started with Ultima 2, and Ultima 3 only reinforced the idea. 2 had the bullshit space travel sections that made it very easy to kill yourself, and 3 would become practically unbeatable if you leveled up too much since the enemies you faced were tied to your level. Despite the challenges of Wizardry 1-3, you were only facing a party wipe if you bit off more than you can chew, and you could easily grind your team into an end-game party in a day or two.
The sentiment shifted in the late 80's and early 90's with the 4th and 5th releases for the series, then Wizardry became the old-school challenge series and Ultima was the relatively tame more modern RPG.

[Anonymous No.11069114]

Pugslys Scavenger Hunt

[Anonymous No.11069125]

>>11067216
And Robert Woodhead left to to work on importing those funny Japanese cartoons.

[Anonymous No.11069148]

>>11065631
Dragon Quarter is unorthodox but not that hard. Except if you really want to finish with the highest D-Ratio.

For PS2 RPGs, I'll raise you an Unlimited SaGa (filtered me)

[Anonymous No.11069163]

>>11065631
RPGs are not hard, stop this

[Anonymous No.11069303]

>>11068090
Every genre has easy games. If you’re gonna call an entire genre easy, you should be able to prove that you were able to beat at least one of the games that the playerbase considers difficult.

[Anonymous No.11069702]

>>11067150
Playing the Master System version (or the GG version at MS resolution on an emulator) of this once a lot of the artificial difficulty is gone, you end up with a pretty boring game.

[Anonymous No.11069865]

>>11068756
I had this one and Sonic Chaos. I never made it past stage 1 on this (until replaying years later via SADX: Director's Cut) but Sonic Chaos was one of my favorite Game Gear games. Give a try sometime if you're up for it.

[Anonymous No.11071053]

>>11065156
Some of those ratings are crazy off

[Anonymous No.11071161]

>>11071053
Yes, every shmup on there should be rated at 1 considering how easy they are to beat through rote memorization.

[Anonymous No.11071226]

>>11068608
Keep in mind a lot of top Japanese players were getting freeplay time or literally knew the devs, and that trickled down to the rest of their scene

[Anonymous No.11071234]

>>11068130
Hishouzame 2all that low is crazy, maybe I'm just godawful at pre-90s shmups but I get sniped like fucking crazy in that game

[Anonymous No.11071250]

Wizardry is meme hard, it doesn't count.

[Anonymous No.11071293]

>>11068130
Mushi 1.0 is way too high , I've cleared that. Whereas I could never come close to clearing a Psikyo 2ALL, even if it is Senguko Ace

[Anonymous No.11071296]

>>11071293
Scratch that, I missed the "no miss"

It's an easy 1all

[Anonymous No.11071563]

>>11071161
Can you get a trip/name please?

[Anonymous No.11071635]

>>11071234
It's not easy, it's just easier than the games above it. It's a short game with only a couple if difficult sections and not much routing change between loops

[Anonymous No.11071641]

>>11069125
>The Best Movies You'll Ever Read
kek

[Anonymous No.11071650]

>>11071641
Gotta remember that back then subtitled anime was a really uncommon thing, to the point that infamously Carl Macek responded to people asking why his company wouldn't released subbed with "you don't buy it anyway"

[Anonymous No.11071785]

>>11071635
Yeah I can see the loop thing making a difference, I tend to think of insane psikyo/cave 2nd loops when I hear "loop 2". I quite like Hishouzame so hoping to even get a shitclear 2-all one day, your words are encouraging

[Anonymous No.11073021]

>>11071053
The list is cobbled together from a number of people's votes right?

I trust the perikles list much more because he actually played all those games and can tell you what's up. I don't buy the idea that the hardest shmup clears are mostly cave games

[Anonymous No.11073241]

>>11065462
Darkseed 1 was much harder because it's standard obtuse puzzles combine with a time factor. Meaning that you have two dimensions to work with, time AND space.
I don't think it's the hardest but with the amount of dead man walking scenarios in it, it's certainty harder than Grim Fandango, a Lucas Arts game.

[Anonymous No.11073242]

>>11065658
It was divinely inspired anon. The Oracle of /vr/ bestows enigmatic truths that few can decipher.

[Anonymous No.11073267]

I've never played Wizardy before and I'm going to start with Wizardy 4 just because of this thread. Wish me luck.

[Anonymous No.11073271]

brah you gotta try dark souls that shit is impossible bruh lmaooo

[Anonymous No.11073276]

>>11073267
You won't be able to get out of the first room without prior knowledge of the game's mechanics learned from previous entries in the series (or by looking up the answer)

[Anonymous No.11073294]

>>11065414
>Moving away from bright pink globs and mashing the fire button doesn't require a high level of execution, anon.

Ever play psikyo shmups second loop?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziDFV1UUU8Y&t=1279s

Here is loop 2 stage 5 boss in Gunbird 2. As far as single player games go the execution is extremely tight and strict imo

[Anonymous No.11073301]

>>Reflex based games (Racing, Shumps, Platformers, ...)
>Easily beaten with rote memorization
>>Puzzle based games (Adventures, RPGs, Strategy games, ...)
>Easily beaten by looking at a walkthrough

So what video game genre actually has hard games? Only competitve multiplayer games or what?

[Anonymous No.11073302]

>>11073294
>completely memorization based gameplay with zero reactability or improvisation
Trash.

[Anonymous No.11073354]

>>11073302
>pivot from execution to improv
kek
although the memorization is intense the execution is also extremely precise and difficult to pull off.

Shmups and most difficult single player games are more about memo/execution not improvisation

[Anonymous No.11073364]

>>11073354
I'm not the guy you were arguing with. I'm just saying IWBTG fangame tier nonsense where you memorize exactly what to do in order to win is lame.

[Anonymous No.11073415]

>>11073364
if it was high memo and low execution I would agree, but as the memorization increases so does the precision of execution required, put those together at a fast pace and it feels very satisfying to pull off. Specially since no run is perfect and you will have to error correct in real time as you make mistakes

[Anonymous No.11073435]

>>11073276
>start game
>pick one of 10 monsters
>milwa activates first phase of battle
wow such a difficult puzzle.
>>11073021
perikles is an infamous cheater who did not post clears.

[Anonymous No.11073531]

>>11065145
Generally speaking the hardest game ever is IVAN. Roguelikes in general are one of the hardest genres because you need to understand the specifics of a certain game well enough to deal with the random pitfalls they will throw in your way. IVAN though is known for making them look like baby games. My best run in Nethack is 4 wins in a row, I have never even come close to beating IVAN

[Anonymous No.11073579]

>>11073435
>perikles is an infamous cheater who did not post clears.
Pretty much all cheaters actually play their games at a high level, just not high enough to do whatever they claim to have accomplished
Very few superplayers play a huge variety of games like him unfortunately

[Anonymous No.11073584]

>>11073531
Speaking of roguelikes I heard Tales of Maj'eyal is extremely tough on insane difficulty as well
>>11073267
Gl anon

[Anonymous No.11073589]

>>11073301
>Only competit[i]ve multiplayer games or what?
Those are mostly memorization too. Only once you're playing at a world class level do things like mind games truly matter

[Anonymous No.11073663]

>>11073584
Yeah it can be very unforgiving, but it still feels fair. IVAN is borderline a troll game where most people who play it aren't expected to ever come close to winning, just enjoy the zany ride of having your leg fall off from a spider bite, praying for a new one and then having it replaced with a banana which you then hobble through the dungeon with until you slip on it and break your neck.

[Anonymous No.11073912]

>>11069702
I disagree, the Master System version, with all of the BS artificial difficulty from the Game Gear, all thanks to the resolution, gone... is a superb title, one of my favorite Sonic titles probably, simpler than the Genesis stuff, of course, but I find that a charming aspect of it, not a flaw. All of the zones had good aesthetic, BGM and gimmicks, and how it makes you look for the Chaos Emeralds is nice.

[Anonymous No.11074009]

>>11073912
What is artificial difficulty??

[Anonymous No.11074146]

>>11065140
some JP only games I recommend:
Atlantis no Nazo
Meikyuu Jiin Dababa

[Anonymous No.11074212]

>>11068130
genuine question, does your autism present any difficulties in daily life?

[Anonymous No.11074229]

>>11065524
oh me too

[Anonymous No.11074294]

>>11074212
>playing videogames on a videogame board means autism

[Anonymous No.11074313]

>>11068608
>replying seriously to ricmaria
Don't do this.

[Anonymous No.11074375]

>>11074009
I mean, don't get me wrong, I find the term quite overused and often avoid it, but in this case I find it fair since a lot of the difficult present on Game Gear, that isn't on Master System... isn't just due to level design changes, it's because they didn't change it enough in fact, because the screen on the Game Gear being smaller and having quite a low resolution makes the FOV too much worse.

I think the worst example isn't even the 1st boss, as the main issue there is that the bombs bounce in different heights... it's actually the Green Hills boss, with spikes you can't see... until you land.

The fact that the level design is identical, with a smaller FOV, and the fact that this play faster if compared to 8-Bit Sonic 1, which was fine on the Game Gear, leads to a lot of leaps of faith and a ton of instant death on sections without rings or just full of spikes... it's doable, I've finished both versions and love both, but I'd never recommend the Game Gear version over Master System...

Actually, I would, but only if you want a tougher Sonic title to play, otherwise Master System just does everything in a way that's more fun to play and it's thanks to, you know... being able to see.

[Anonymous No.11074773]

I looked up strategywiki to look for wizardry guides and I noticed most entries in the wizardry series had guides written *except* for IV

[Anonymous No.11074940]

>>11067150
It's one of the easier Sonic games precisely because of how much it scares a new player. Once you learn it, it's nowhere near as hard to play well as most other Sonic games, but other Sonic games tend to be incredibly lenient towards those who just want to beat them.
This boss is an example of that - it's early into the game so you can reach it quickly, and you can stand near the end of the slope and do jumps around the balls, which should help deal with most, if not all scenarios it presents.

[Anonymous No.11075442]

>>11065515
Such a dead genre that Konami is releasing Cygni next month. Platformers are so fucking easy man you are out of your mind

[Anonymous No.11075809]

>>11074294
yes
especially if you lie about your clears
post your replays
autistic shitter

[Anonymous No.11075815]

>>11075809
https://www.youtube.com/@formlessx/videos
This is his channel if you want to see his runs. The games played match his lists and the time of the uploads matches with his reviews on some game review site (said reviews were blatantly him, basically just the same kind of shit he posts on 4chan).

[Anonymous No.11075904]

>>11073584
There's a "character vault" on ToME website that shows every character made in the game, and if you sort by the hardest difficulty, there are typically only like 10 wins a year (played without cheater mods, at least, which are also listed)
So yeah that shit is pretty rough. Lower difficulties are a great way to ease into it though

[Anonymous No.11075981]

>>11071785
>>11071635
Ok, I'm a brain genius and almost just finished loop 1. I guess I was overestimating this game a bit, but I'm still really pleased with the progress
Also really nice youtube channel m8, unironically. I don't think there's been a satisfactory video guide on retroach autofire before, and it's way easier to send people that than explain the process to someone who doesn't know how to navigate retroach (a lot of people)

[Anonymous No.11075982]

>>11075981
I'm not him but I had an idea for a separate youtube channel, where I try to conquer the hardest games ever made starting from pretty hard games like NES stuff and moving up to insane accomplishments like Kamilia 3 or mario 64 74ee. I'm not talented at games I would just keep playing until I succeed. Would be fun to see how it goes

[Anonymous No.11076015]

>>11071785
Loop 2 in most psikyo games is ridiculous both in memo and execution required, but some are reasonable even for newer players, like Sengoku Aces.

[Anonymous No.11076019]

>>11075982
you don't need to do a million shitter clears, just beat one or two ridiculously hard games and it's assumed you can do everything else as well.

Something like Mushihimesama Futari Ultra or DOJ 2-all or Gunbird 2 2-all or Gradius 3 2-all or Raiden 2 4-all etc

doing a ghosts n goblins no miss, final fight no miss or metal slug 2 no miss wouldn't cut it those are easy in comparison

[Anonymous No.11076074]

>>11076019
Most people don't actually know what games are easy vs. hard or how hard a certain score or no-miss is. To the average viewer, beating NES Contra with no continues is a bigger feat than a Parodius Da 2all, because they're actually familiar with the former.

[Anonymous No.11076216]

>>11076019
>>11076074
IMO shmups test a certain, fairly narrow range of skills. Good routing kinda nukes the difficulty of these games, there's not a lot of on-the-fly decision making or even that much reflex testing going on in what I've played. If you have the route you're solid, if you don't you're screwed. Nothing really stops an average joe from becoming a superplayer except for needing the commitment to learn the routes, which simply takes a long time. Inbachi is a brutal reflex test but pales in comparison to stuff people do in ex. rhythm games.

Besides rhythm games, I think something like Kamilia 3 is still clearly harder than DOJ 2-ALL, or one of those brutal Mario 64 romhacks that require perfect analog movements. If shmups were truly that insane I don't think those garegga players aged 40+ would still be getting world class scores as they do now. No disrespect to them but nothing in garegga looks incredibly hard except maybe black heart 2

[Anonymous No.11076228]

>>11076216
Spoken like a retard with no clears

[Anonymous No.11076245]

>>11076216
>have zero experience
>still write two paragraphs of garbage

>Inbachi is a brutal reflex test but pales in comparison to stuff people do in ex. rhythm games.
100% bait

[Anonymous No.11076289]

>>11076228
>>11076245
Hardest clear I have is Ikaruga. Almost got a 1-all in ketsui but haven't done it yet. If you have done something super hard, can you explain how it's not almost entirely routing? That is what I gather from these games. A very good route just makes things trivial. If it's not consistent then your routing probably isn't good enough or you don't understand how the pattern/stage works.
>100% bait
But it's true, is it not? However bad inbachi is it cannot be worse than the hardest maps in stepmania/IIDX that push human reflexes to the absolute limit

[Anonymous No.11076307]

>>11076289
>Hardest clear I have is Ikaruga. Almost got a 1-all in ketsui but haven't done it yet.
Then shut the fuck up and stop typing drivel retard

[Anonymous No.11076312]

>>11076307
Explain how I'm wrong. You can do that, right? You graduated high school yeah?

[Anonymous No.11076316]

If people on 4chan ever respond to your post with nothing but "Woww you're retarded" and "This is bait" that's how you know they can't prove you wrong.

[Anonymous No.11076329]

>>11076312
You lack the experience to even understand. You don't know what you don't know.

A retard with zero experience of the subject matter typing paragraphs of drivel and then expecting someone to spoonfeed them is what's wrong with the internet nowadays. Just too much fucking idiots acting as fake experts.

[Anonymous No.11076332]

>>11073584
Insane difficulty in ToME4 is more tedious than hard - since everything is cooldown-based, you can retry fights as much as you want as long as you can leave the area, and escape options are incredibly common and powerful. Mandatory bosses also no longer spawn with additional random classes that could softlock runs with a bad roll, so as long as you prepare accordingly any class can win Insane mode. Per >>11075904, Madness is the actual meme difficulty since it cranks enemy levels so high that normal attacks/debuffs no longer work - you pretty much need talents that deal %-based damage/instakill or turn you invincible to survive, and very few classes have access to these.

[Anonymous No.11076336]

>>11076316
It's not worth the effort. That's why "post clears" pisses off shitters so much. It shows you won't engage with disingenuous outsiders just looking to stir up an argument.

Either get to a solid baseline of experience where you can have a meaningful exchange of information or get the fuck out of the thread with your braindead drivel.

[Anonymous No.11076338]

>>11076329
>>11076336
I'll get a 2-ALL in ketsui and post it here. Ura. I am 100% certain I can do this, not within a month but soon. Expect to see my thread and prepare to cope.

Shmup players really are obsessed with difficulty because it's the main thing going for this subgenre. You take away that and there's not much left but a dead genre. If you think rhythm games aren't MUCH harder than them... lol

[Anonymous No.11076343]

>>11076338
Go right ahead, you can't even get a 1all shitclear retard.

[Anonymous No.11076346]

>>11076343
I've got several. Keep seething.

[Anonymous No.11076351]

>>11076346
>>11076338
A 1all shitclear is like 1% of the difficulty of a ura 2all. Not sure why people think it's impressive to talk about lofty goals. Shut the fuck up and talk once you've actually earned them.

[Anonymous No.11076354]

>>11076351
My 1-ALLs are pristine. Anyway it's pointless to keep talking about for now, save your rage for later on when you see my thread pop up and ruin your day.

[Anonymous No.11076534]

>>11076338
Difficulty is content

https://youtu.be/U0SenfVdvxY?si=DbYgicYxPRGsugVJ

[Anonymous No.11076610]

Ninja Gaiden is pretty hard I think

[Anonymous No.11076727]

>>11076216
The "age makes you worse" meme just isn't real. It's true that you lose reaction time, but it's incredibly minor - maybe by age 55 you're a frame slower, but that's already smaller than natural variance, and plenty of amazing fighting game players have middling raw reaction time + are 40
It's true that zoomers learn faster, but if you get good as a zoomer, you can stay good at any game for a long fucking time

[Anonymous No.11076745]

>>11076338
The hardest part about rhythm games is the carpal tunnel

[Anonymous No.11076796]

>>11076289
Really ironic to note rhythm games of all things to emphasize reflexes over memorization

[Anonymous No.11077249]

>>11076216
But Kamilia 3 and Mario 64 74EE are aesthetically repulsive.
Life is too short to be playing ugly games.

[Anonymous No.11077498]

>>11076796
You haven't heard of rhythm game players using random maps to improve their reflexes...?

[Anonymous No.11077516]

>>11074773
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/lets-play-wizardry-4.70586/
long but worth the read

[Anonymous No.11077526]

>>11076727
>It's true that zoomers learn faster, but if you get good as a zoomer, you can stay good at any game for a long fucking time
I'm not even sure if age harms your ability to pick up new games that much. There is a real drop-off for physical sports like Shaq losing his magic but for playing video games there's no apparent reason why a guy in his 30's or 40's couldn't pick it up and become excellent other than lack of energy or time.

IMO we all just assume older dudes cannot becomes pros at games, so guys believe it's impossible and never try. People say 25 is too old to get good at shit like Valorant, that just sounds silly. Can it really be that hard to keep your crosshair in the right place and move the cursor onto the guy's head?

[Anonymous No.11077932]

>>11077526
the cost of getting very good when you're older is much higher. Time becomes much more precious. An average guy in his 40s is going to be making almost 3x more money than he was making between 18-24. It reminds me of Steam reviews were a guy sinks 200hours into a game calls it shitty and terrible gives it 1 star, but says: '' at least it was only 9$ bucks so I didn't get ripped off''.....not realizing he wasted 200 hours enduring a shitty game, time he'll never get back, time he could've spent closing more deals, getting more clients, improving the value of his house or whatever profitable shit old guys do.

Then factor in family, responsibilities, kids, actual manly hobbies, and death approaching and suddenly draining away your time sweaty-grinding a game daily to ''become a top Ketsui player'' isn't as rewarding or attractive as playing it casually a couple times a week.

[Anonymous No.11077965]

>Tower of Druaga not mentioned
shitter thread

[Anonymous No.11078145]

>>11077932
Yamanaka (a record holder) streams garegga every other day but only for 1 hour or so. He did a 20+ hour session though recently. Time is clearly the main obstacle and it's a shame. Seems that between having a career and raising kids a passion project will never survive unless you try incredibly hard to make the most of your time

[Anonymous No.11078269]

>>11078145
Curious did he learn it in his 40s or like most other record holders he started decades ago and now it doesn't take much upkeep?

[Anonymous No.11078278]

>>11078269
Not sure but his first record is in 2020

[Anonymous No.11079825]

>>11065398
>Trying to 100% Kuru Kuru Kururin rn. That is what comes to mind from what I played at least.
Based

[Anonymous No.11080910]

>>11065140
Is this only counting games that were deliberately created to be hard, or also games that were hard mostly because they were buggy, non-playtested shitpiles?

[Anonymous No.11081036]

>>11065140
i clapped and sharted when i read "of all time"

[Anonymous No.11081893]

>>11074375
Thank you, that's actually the best description of artificial difficulty I have heard and I agree completely.

[Anonymous No.11082194]

>>11065142
beat wizardry1 without savescumming. i was honestly about to with the bullshit level-draining vampires. rushed to the boss on the final floor, entire team got wiped except for my priest. i forget what spell has a chance of instakill, but i tried it on a whim and it worked. i still have my maps. floor 8 was my favorite. 2 seemed to be a better game design-wise, but i never beat it.

[Anonymous No.11082202]

>>11065398
>Kuru Kuru Kururin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tg8Jahz6RM4&ab_channel=YandereArchive

[Anonymous No.11082451]

Are there any platformers that are insanely hard because of the actual platforming and not because of things like weird gimmicks or cheap enemy placement?

[Anonymous No.11082476]

>>11065145
It’s hard but I love it and beat it after some determination. It wasn’t that bad. You can play each level until you beat it.

[Anonymous No.11082508]

>>11077516
Thank you for posting this. Love this stuff

[Anonymous No.11082631]

>>11065140
stop fucking saying "of all time" you shit spraying parrot

[Anonymous No.11082845]

>>11082451
Maybe something with shitty procedural rng levels? Something that's pure reflexive reaction with no strategy, planning or thinking is what you want.

[Anonymous No.11082876]

>>11081036
>>11082631
>mindbroken over a basic english phrase
mental illness

[Anonymous No.11082891]

Radiant Silvergun

[Anonymous No.11083036]

>>11082891
That game can easily be beaten through rote memorization, just like with all shmups. Try again.

[Anonymous No.11083173]

>>11083036
You don't beat a shmup until you have held the WR for a few years.

[Anonymous No.11083631]

>>11083173
>Just do this specific thing and then this specific thing until you get the maximum score
Wow, sooo challenging.

[Anonymous No.11083716]

>>11081893
I'm happy to hear, anon. I'm glad you enjoyed it. Cheers!

[Anonymous No.11083762]

>>11083631
Moving goalposts is a shmup player's greatest skill.

[Anonymous No.11083945]

>>11083036
Every time with threads like this there's some tryhard trying to outdo everyone else, it's pathetic.

[Anonymous No.11083957]

>>11065142
this is everything I hate about roguelikes but in a rpg. amazing. PS it's not gaming when rng determines whether or not you succeed, it's a lottery

[Anonymous No.11083992]

>>11083945
Not him but I see it as a valid point. Scrolling games like that are more like exercises in memorization than learning to play a game. Which is why to make them seem harder than they are fans of the genre put extra restrictions like beating the game without ever taking a hit. Because with something like a shmup that's entirely possible once you've memorized the optimal rout through the game. Compare that to a similar challege like playing through any Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat getting a perfect victory every round which would near impossible for even the best fighter players anywhere.

It's like the difference between learning to play a long difficult piano piece and learning to play chess at a high level. One is practicing a specific task until your muscle memory perfects it, the other is learning strategies and techniques to play a game where different scenarios prestent themselves.

[Anonymous No.11084008]

>>11083957
The mark of a well made Roguelike is that it's designed so that a skilled player can take whatever random resources they come across and still win. The longest Nethack wins treak for example is something like 36 runs and Darren Grey who did it chops that loss up to a dumb mistake.

A roguelike can be badly designed though as in the case of mystery dungeon 2 Shiren the Wanderer where there is a weather system placed on top of the game which makes certain runs genuinely impossible to do without bringing extra items.

A good roguelike is a test of your knowledge of the game's mechanics combined with your problem solving skills to get through the challenges that come up.

[Anonymous No.11084036]

>>11083992
You should learn to play one of the harder shoot 'em ups at a high level. From the outside it appears static, but these games are actually very dynamic. Memorizing and executing a route perfectly is impossible for humans, so in reality you'll face some randomness/novel situations every run, which prompts on-the-fly decision making and balancing risk/reward

>learning to play chess at a high level
Chess is actually very memo-heavy not unlike shoot 'em ups. Not only openings, but end-games too. Blitz chess is only possible because players memorize how specific end game setups work and know how to play off the situation

[Anonymous No.11084063]

>>11084036
If there are shmups that delve into that I am happy to hear. It's why I more gravitate towards games like Fantasy Zone or Bangai-0 over most shmups because I find most auto scrollers boring.

And I fully agree of chess being a bad analogy because it's quite limited when you get down to it but felt like a better choice than tennis or something to illustrate the point.

[Anonymous No.11084114]

>>11084063
It depends on the scoring system basically. For a popular example, dodonpachi is just memorization because chaining and bees are the only thing that matter, but hyper management in the game's sequels adds a layer of dynamic gameplay. Once you make a big mistake, your opportunity to PB is probably gone but you can still keep playing the game and find neat ways to recover score, whereas in original dodonpachi it's just chain or no chain, if you lose the chain just start over. Same applies to Ikaruga for example, there is only one way to play that game. Great game but not dynamic at all.

This also applies to speedrunning. If you have one enormous trick that decides the whole run, it's boring because the whole run is just memorizing that one difficult trick. But if it's something with lots of small tricks, techniques, and potential routes with no run-deciding trick, it becomes more dynamic and fun. But you won't see that level of dynamic play until you actually do it yourself

[Anonymous No.11084998]

>>11084008
you know I never heard mastery of a roguelike described that way, as how long your winstreak is. that could still be a result of immense luck but the odds of it go down dramatically with each addition.
I don't think most people who play roguelikes think about it this way or track concurrent wins because ive never heard it before just now lol

[Anonymous No.11086381]

>>11077516
>Back to the topic of getting out of the starting room: in an encounter, wait for one of your Priests to cast Milwa, the 1st tier Light spell. That is the key to escaping.

>A Milwa lasts even when out of combat, and with its help, you can finally discover a secret door leading out of the room! (Incidentally, that means you can only enter a secret door you see. No random bumping into walls in search of a door for you.)

>To sum it up, this is what Wizardry IV's infamous first puzzle consists in: summon a group of Lvl 1 Priests -- wait for an encounter -- wait until a Priest casts Milwa; if he doesn't, wait for the next encounter, etc.

>That, naturally, is the only way you can get out of the starting room. The rationale behind the puzzle being probably as follows: it is only natural to assume there has to be a way out of the starting room -- otherwise what would be the point of the game? On the other hand, any experienced Wizardry player knows that, being a Mage, there is no way for Werdna himself to cast Milwa, as well as that you can only see (and enter) secret doors with light on. From all that, it follows that if you can't, then someone in your party should be able to cast Milwa, so summoning a group of Priests is the logical next step. Finally, you can't just order the Priests to cast a Milwa since you don't control them directly, so you should wait for them to cast it in combat when they feel like it.

Jesus that's impresively hard for the frst fucking puzzle of the game. At least the thread says that there's a hint on the game box

[Anonymous No.11086854]

>>11086381
it only gets worse after that

[Anonymous No.11086865]

>>11069125
35 bucks for a single anime episode on VHS? Holy shit, and here I thought anime was expensive today

[Anonymous No.11086956]

>>11086381
Just wait until you get to the infamous seemingly unbeatable lord puzzle.

>The answer is right in front of your nose!

>>11086381
>there's a hint on the game box

No, the box contaied a sealed envelope with the solution to that one first puzzle in it for the hopelessly stuck. After that you're on your own.

[Anonymous No.11086987]

>>11065140
any "all time" assertion is pretty retarded given how disparate games are in their genres and timeperiods. a hard puzzle game in the 70s isnt the same as a hard platformer in the 90s. even worse when you have to fight with shitty controls or bugs at the time

[Anonymous No.11087003]

>>11068130
Based

Since we are talking about shmups Raiden 2, Gradius 3 and most Toaplan games, those should absolutely be in a top 10

[Anonymous No.11088435]

>>11065398
>Trying to 100% Kuru Kuru Kururin rn. That is what comes to mind from what I played at least.
Basado

[Anonymous No.11089601]

>>11086987
Yeah

[Anonymous No.11089807]

>>11082451
I wanna be the guy/I wanna be the boshy is the closest thing I can think of
still filled with cheap bullshit designed to make you rage though. if you watch a playthrough of each level before you play it to scout the bullshit it will still be hard

[Anonymous No.11090131]

>>11086381
i once read that playtrough and while the game is supposedly meant for expert wizardry players i feel a lot of those puzzles and stuff are very far fetched. I dont know shit about the series but still how the fuck are you just supposed to know all the end game puzzle bullshit

[Anonymous No.11090442]

>>11087003
If you allow shmups on a difficulty list the top 30 will all be shmups

[Anonymous No.11090457]

>>11089807
>>11082451
I actually like this guys idea of playing Boshy, but just watching each world to see the "gotcha" traps of they really bother you enough to put you off it otherwise. In Boshy it's not super frequent and you just have to repeat the last screen or two, but you would still get your balls broken repeatedly even playing with full knowledge of the BS

[Anonymous No.11090467]

>>11090442
>rote memorization
>""""difficult""""
Lmao. Kek even.

[Anonymous No.11090482]

>>11090467
if you're going to samefag the same bait in the same thread for a week, at least don't use the same autistic phrasing every time

[Anonymous No.11090552]

>>11090467
>just memorize the RNG that consist of 90%+ of the attacks in the game brah
you are going to be surprised when you realize most shmups takes actual skills compared to whatever you play

[Anonymous No.11090557]

>>11090442
I think some run n guns could easily sneak in that top 30, for example Outzone
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUHOd_OZqPI

[Anonymous No.11090579]

>>11090557
I did 4 loops of that. I would put 4 loops somewhere around 35-40

[Anonymous No.11092402]

>>11065142
Lol