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1104310 No.1104310 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

Is there a more tragic figure in gaming than John Romero, /vr/?

>important creative force behind Doom and Quake
>ostracized by his friends and coworkers
>roasted by the gaming press because a duke nukem quote in an ad hurt their feelings
>now makes cell phone games

>> No.1104326

I'd say that title goes to Inafune, for seeing his precious life's work of a series being murdered by Capcom

>> No.1104328
File: 30 KB, 485x664, 11128-romero_ad.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1104328

>>1104310
don't forget daikatana

>> No.1104332
File: 16 KB, 150x206, Isao_Okawa.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1104332

>Isao Okawa
>became Chairman of Sega in 1984
>spent $40 million of his own money to help fund the Dreamcast
>made the hard decision to end production
>Died a few weeks later
>forgave Sega's debt to him
>gave them $695 million worth of stock
>company still went to shit
>not retro

>> No.1104338

Its pretty sad to see what happened to Will Wright. Maybe not as hard of a fall as some other people but it still bums me out.

>> No.1104342

Romero is a creative guy but he's like the Vince Russo of computer games. Some good ideas but a whole lot of shit as well. If there wasn't someone/something to filter the good from the bad (e.g. id) then you get a total pile of dogshit like Daikatana

>> No.1104369

>>1104342
i just strongly disliked his marketing with daikatana. like, are you fucking serious? how arrogant can you get? it's even worse that the game is horrible.

>> No.1104393

From reading Masters of Doom, there's something I still can't quite get: Why did he get fired?
Yes, he started acting like a rock star and didn't get the work finished on time, but from everything I read it seems like he had great relationship with the fans and they loved to consider him a sort of "face of Id". Seems like he could have done a good job of simply being a publicity figure, going on all the Doom/Quake parties, talking with the fans and so on.

Just something to think about.

>> No.1104420

>>1104328
Daikatana GBC was better than the original PC version.

>> No.1104425

>>1104342
Romero isn't like Russo. Romero has mainly good ideas, but lacked the skill and technology to pull them off. Daikatana would have been great if Romero could pull his ideas off, but he was too ambitious which isn't the worst thing in the world because at least it shows he loves his business. He was incredibly arrogant, but that's somewhat forgivable because Wolfenstein 3D, Doom and Quake were all iconic genre defining games.

Russo has mainly terrible ideas, and his few great ideas are way less common. Also Russo hates his business, and is far more arrogant than he ought to be considering that he was one of the major reasons WCW collapsed. Fuck Russo.

>> No.1104430

>>1104326
Oh boo hoo, it must be terrible to have three million dollars thrown at you to make Legally Distinct Entity Man

>> No.1104437

>>1104369
I've always viewed it less like arrogancy and more like standard "edgy" trash talk that was common to the FPS scene of that era.

>> No.1104450

>>1104326
Get real, that faggot is the one who ruined Mega Man in the first place.

>> No.1104456

>>1104369
He had no knowledge of that ad when it went out.

>> No.1104474

>>1104369
>>1104456

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQMtVbz_JuE
He seems like a pretty decent guy

>> No.1104479

wrong

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Daikatana-John-Romero-id-software,10443.html

>> No.1104490

>>1104369
JOHN ROMERO IS ABOUT TO THROW YOU IN THE TRUNK OF HIS CAR AND DRIVE YOU OUT TO HIS CABIN IN THE MIDDLE OF THE WILDERNESS WHERE HE WILL PIMP YOU OUT TO LONELY FISHERMEN TO PAY FOR HIS $2000-A-WEEK COCAINE HABIT

>> No.1104492

>>1104328

I should really play this game once, if only for its legendary status.

Is it really that bad? Or just mediocre?

>> No.1104495

>>1104326
...And now he's getting 3 million dollars to make what's basically a reboot of Mega Man. He got his happy ending.

As for Romero, he did make Doom, Quake, and Wolfenstein so I don't entirely blame him for being arrogant. Plus that kind of talk was pretty common back in the 90s FPS scene anyway.

>> No.1104508

>>1104492
I never actually played it, but the reviews pegged it as a sloppy, mediocre mess.

The game got shitloads of hate since it was marketed by the publisher as the second coming of Jesus H. Christ himself.

>> No.1104509

>>1104495

Pretty much this. If the game had ended up being good, it would have been huge. They wanted to create controversy for publicity, much like how everyone went apeshit over Wolfenstein and Doom for how "violent" they were at the time.

>> No.1104578

>>1104492
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOJpXffyR5k
Sums it up pretty well. It tried some cool unique things, but it ended up being poorly made and the insane hype around it didn't help matters. For example, you have AI controlled teammates that follow you and help you fight, which sounds pretty cool and was innovative at the time, but in the final product they were completely busted and just held you back more than anything. Most of the enemy AI is terrible too, all they know how to do is run at you in a straight line and attack. It's also important to remember that this game came out 2 years after half-life.

>> No.1104758

David Crane has got to be up there.

I mean, dude leaves Atari to co-found Activision, to make a company that gives programmers more recognition. He has a hand in some of the greatest games on the 2600.

And then Activision begins its descent, he bails to create Absolute, and he starts off with the classic Boy and his Blob games, but soon is working on the fucking Simpsons games, and eventually one of the last things he ends up working on is Night Trap.

That's right. Dude made both Pitfall games, and then ten years later was a code monkey on goddamn Night Trap.

>> No.1106368

>>1104479
ah, that's interesting. I just read it. yeah, I totally took it out of context and thought he was saying "this game is gonna be so good, all FPS players are gonna be playing this and make me millions".

thanks for posting that.

>> No.1106382

>>1104338
Whatever happened to Wright? Was Spore a big enough flop to drive him out of EA?

>> No.1106415

>>1106382

According to wikipedia, he is no longer with EA.

He's now on the board of directors of Linden Labs. The company that made Second Life.

>> No.1106463
File: 32 KB, 237x214, Gunpei_Yokoi.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1106463

Gunpei Yokoi.

He was basically the magician over at Nintendo that invented 3 things that saved the company:
First, the Ultra hand, a toy he created when he was bored at work (he was the guy in charge of maintenance of the machines in one of Nintendo's warehouses back when they were a toy manufacturer in the 60s/70s). He did this toy for himself, Yamauchi saw the toy and decided to sell it as a new Nintendo-branded toy. It was a commercial success and saved Nintendo's ass when they were once in red numbers. The toy was famous world-wide, even I had a knockoff of it when I was a kid.
Now onto video games: he also created the famous D-pad or cross button.
Actually, he didn't create it, but he thought about implementing it on videogames. "cross buttons" were used before in various industrial machines, and Yokoi thought about implementing it on the Game & Watch. There were many other pseudo d-pads before it, but the actual d-pad in cross shape we know today was implemented by Yokoi.
I mentioned the G&W, and that's cool, but he did another thing that revolutionized everything: Game Boy.
As far as software goes, Yokoi was the head of Nintendo R&D1, which are reponsible for games such as Metroid, Fire Emblem, Kid Icarus and others.

His tragedy starts with the Virtual Boy. The system was definitely interesting, but the Nintendo directives actively fucked him over with a schedule date for release, and rushed development. Yokoi was forces to release the system in prototype state and few games developed for it (amongs them, the acclaimed Virtual Boy Wario Land, the best in the Wario series for many).
After the failure, he left Nintendo (but before doing so, he made the Gameboy Pocket, as a "farewell gift" to Nintendo).
He did another handheld system for Ban Dai, the Wonderswan.
Shortly after the WS was release, he died in a car accident. It was a chain car accident, he died trying to help other people who were stuck in a car

>> No.1106482

>>1106463
>It was a chain car accident, he died trying to help other people who were stuck in a car
OH FUCK WHAT
This changes everything.

>> No.1106486
File: 90 KB, 615x461, sim-city-2000[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1106486

>>1106415

That is kinda depressing. I mean, Spore really was a mess and far from being the game it should've been (much like the stuff Molyneux does all the time), but working for Linden Labs now? That's uncalled for.

I mean, let us all remember what Will did for the gaming scene. So many good games, so many memories. And now he has to handle some fetish-"game" for furries and other weirdos. Damn.

>> No.1106489

>>1104393
That's the thing though, ID wasn't the kind of company who was willing to keep some dude simply as a rockstar public persona.

MoD was a fucking excellent book. I read the whole thing in one sitting during a 5-hour flight.

>> No.1106494

>>1104369

The trash talk was a staple of the cool kid image videogames tried to get back then.
Hell look at SEGA ads against Nintendo.

>> No.1106498

>>1104425
The main kerfuffle with Daikatana was that they switched engines (from Idtech 1 to Idtech 2) mid development which basically meant throwing out everything they already made and starting from scratch. All this in an effort to make the game look top-of-the-line, which wasn't even the case when it finally did come out.

>> No.1106503

>>1106382
>>1106486
I think the real tragedy with Spore was the fact the original prototype was a labour of love for the guy, the life simulation he wanted to make and to play. However, it wasn't "accessible", and EA kept pushing from within for him to make it more "accessible". It got to the point where the entirety of Maxis had a say in the direction the final product took - and Will was basically told to shove it, leading to the casualised shitmess that is the Spore of today.

>> No.1106504

>>1106482

It was a typical Yakuza kind of assassination back then.
You hit someone in the back on a road, he comes to you for talking, assistance etc., and then a second car passes and kills him.
Shouldn't have pissed Yamauchi.

>> No.1106506

The faggot that died of cancer at Creative Assembly and haunts players with his fucking face on generals is worse than that.

>> No.1106517

>>1104758

Welllll...Night Trap is pretty much a cult classic, and the Simpsons games are still pretty well loved. Yeah, they aren't top quality and groundbreaking like his earlier work but it isn't bottom of the barrel either.

>> No.1106589

>>1106517

Still, founding Activision then with such noble goals and having to watch it turn into... Activision today?

>> No.1107157

>>1106463
And everyone's getting hard over Yamauchi instead for being a greedy fuck

>> No.1107749

>>1104758
>to make a company that gives programmers more recognition.
40 years later, programmers are little more than slaves at Activision.

>> No.1107757

>>1106517
>and the Simpsons games are still pretty well loved.

I've never, ever heard a good thing about the Simpsons games. Not then, and especially now. I remember getting Bart vs The Space Mutants on the Genesis in the 90s and for being a stupid kid I still realized the terrible mistake I made.

>> No.1107780

>>1104490
2000 dollars a week on coke he would have to be snorting like 3 and a half 8balls a day. Nobody could do that alone, doesn't sound like such a bad party when you put it that way.

>> No.1107802

>>1107757
Simpsons arcade game was pretty fun

>> No.1107808

>>1107802
That's because it was a Konami game. Absolute made the bad ones. The really, really bad ones.

>> No.1107852

>>1107780
>2000 dollars a week on coke he would have to be snorting like 3 and a half 8balls a day. Nobody could do that alone, doesn't sound like such a bad party when you put it that way.

I dunno, in my Rich Asshole days I was burning through $500 a day on blow, and I was only sharing now and then

>> No.1107902

>>1107852
I'm basing this on a an 80 dollar 8ball, some places it might be a lot more, drugs are pretty cheap here though. If you can snort 10 grams of uncut coke a day, son I am impress. You might have been paying 150 for a cut 8 ball delivered though which you could probably burn though a few of those a day. Rich people who are new to drugs don't really know how to get the most for their dollar when it comes to drugs too though so Romero could probably do $2000 a week now that I think about it haha.

>> No.1107908

>>1106504
>It was a typical Yakuza kind of assassination back then.

No it fucking wasn't. Shut up and stop spreading BS rumors.

>> No.1107947

>>1104456

Yeah, it was an ill fated stunt created by the marketing company hired by the developers.

>> No.1107952

>>1104758

Another casualty of the gaming industry is Manfred Trenz. He is not doing much these days.

>> No.1107958

>>1104578
>Most of the enemy AI is terrible too, all they know how to do is run at you in a straight line and attack. It's also important to remember that this game came out 2 years after half-life.
Enemies running in a straight line and attacking doesn't means bad game design.

>> No.1107985
File: 45 KB, 620x265, romerointerview_mfg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1107985

>>1104474
>Daikatana was an EXPERT LEVEL FPS which is why nobody liked it
>PR team screwed me over
>Team screwed me over

John Romero: "BUT IT WAS STILL MORE FUN TO MAKE THAN QUAKE LOL"

Romero lives in a house of lies.

>> No.1107991

>>1104369
The marketing was the best thing related to Daikatana.

>> No.1108006

>>1104490
I love how you took the writing literally, dumbfuck.

>> No.1108027

AI is a big pet peeve of mine.

One of the worst AIs I've ever encountered in my fucking life was Halo 1.

The enemies literally jump left and right when you shoot at them. I thought 'oh my god I'm playing a carnival game.'

There is literally zero thought involved in killing an enemy that randomly does things. You are like a slobbering pavlovian retard, responding to stimuli. This problem appeared in WoW too, responding to 'procs' during an attack rotation.

At least in a game like doom the combination of predictable behavior could still be powerful and fun to survive when many enemies attacked at once. Revenants and archviles come to mind, and mancubi to a lesser extent. Massive imp battles were godly, see the map called 'nullspace' for the best imp battles Ive seen in Doom.

The ideal AI will respond to you in complex but perfectly predictable ways, to avoid the pavlov phenomenon. Then, these factors are joined holistically (many enemies) to create emergent gameplay.

Number of games where this simple concept has been implemented: zero

>> No.1108032

>>1104450
Wait, Capcom murderer a franchise that was selling like shit for the past 10 years? Disgusting, they should have keep creating more failed Megaman products, instead.

Btw, Inafune already fucked Megaman with the mediocre X5.

>> No.1108035

>>1108032
Wrong quote, sorry.

Means to:

>>1104326

>> No.1108036

>>1108027
>Number of games where this simple concept has been implemented: zero
>What is: Serious Sam

>> No.1108058

>>1107902
>80 dollar 8ball

That's a lot cheaper than I was getting it back then. Cocaine prices cratererd after the crash in 2008.

>> No.1108065

>>1104450
A reminder that Inafune was the responsible for the Devil May Cry reboot.

>> No.1108070

>>1108027
Because AI will always be AI.

This is why games like Doom are better than Half Life.

>> No.1108095

>>1108027
FEAR

>> No.1108151

>>1104456
>>1107947
>He had no knowledge of that ad when it went out.

False. He approved it, he admitted he approved it, he at various times has tried to pass off some of the blame because he didn't come up with it but ultimately admitted that he had final say so it was still on his shoulders, and he apologized.

>> No.1108161

>>1108027
>Halo 1, worst AIs in my life
>misuse of pavlov
>"ideal AI"
This just makes you a bit crap at ranking AIs and justifying your opinion dude.

Doom is great tho

>> No.1108407
File: 76 KB, 350x278, sad cat.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1108407

>>1104332

>> No.1108424

>>1106503
Isn't the story that EA had nothing to do with it, but some other big name guy on the team was pushing for a more cute than realistic look on the game

>> No.1108756

>>1106463
>First, the Ultra hand,

I actually got one of those items in Animal Crossing New Leaf. Now that I think bout it the rest of those items must have been old Nintendo toys too. Neat.

>> No.1108923

>>1108027
What the hell are you even going on about, man? The enemies in Halo 1 jumping to the side to dodge your grenades is one of the coolest things any AI has ever done.

>> No.1108928

>>1104450
Right he murdered it.
Not capcom who forced him to create X games after X4, something he did not want to do.

>> No.1108939

>>1107908
go back to bed, Yamauchi

>> No.1108984

>>1108027
are you for real? halo 1's biggest selling point was it's enemy AI? It was great for its time

>> No.1109032

>>1108161

given that you were either unable or unwilling to offer a counterargument, I'd say that justifying your opinion is your own weakness, which you've chosen to project upon me

pavlov is a reference to an animal responding to correlated stimuli, expecting gratification. responding to unexpected procs or random behaviour in expectation of victory is not just an accurate parallel to pavlov, its a flawless parallel to pavlov.

if you still don't understand what I mean, it is not procedural, it is a response to something that was only partially expected. the AI in question contained randomness, just like the bell in pavlovs experiment. the result, moving your gun sights towards the direction that they leaped, is the salivation

the only way to circumvent pavlov in that particular case would be something unusual, like using the leaping process as a way to delay the enemy's attack. THAT would be procedural.

anyone who attempts to justify randomness in a video game is outside the bounds of the argument, they can't be reasoned with. not knowing whether ai is going to leap left or right, or when, is RNG. its rubbish. its not gameplay, it's an illusion of choice, and even worse, in most cases it denies the player a learning curve

>> No.1109046

>>1109032
What the fuck are you talking about?
Seriously what the fuck? You soun like a first year psych student. What the fuck is random about dodging shots and grenades? Are you for real? Like is this what autism is?

>> No.1109250

It's a shame, the 90s id games were the shit. No other company changed video games as much as they did in my opinion. Look at how big the differences between each id series were, from Wolf to Doom to Quake, to even Quake II.

>> No.1109281

>>1104310
There are a lot of Japanese games with unknown developers. Nobody is really sure who worked on the original Castlevania for NES. A lot of those guys helped make games that became multi-million dollar franchises, and today they get no credit, and probably no money.

>> No.1109286

>>1109281
And during the reign of the Atari 2600, Atari actually forbade its employees from being credited or taking credit for their games in any way.

>> No.1109316

>>1109046

I dont hate you for not having an interest in this subject, I shouldn't have brought up game design on 4chan, of all places

How about a simpler subject that we can have a straightforward discussion about.

You at least admit that Halo (all versions) is derivative, consolized trash, right? The very notion of a FPS game using a controller pad automatically renders it unplayable, but Halo created new compromises. It created environments and situations that are stylized while somehow also being empty of imagination, an almost inexplicable achievement. It added a generic and lifeless story to what was clearly nothing more than a manshoot, proving that a story is simply a supporting aspect to gameplay. (without actually admitting it) And it introduced millions of unwashed children to the glories of ego-shooting, without troubling them to learn any of the subtleties of the archetype.

I would say that 'only a very young child would think that a script that has RNG in it could be described as "AI," especially when very early fps script-bots like quake's reaper-bot saw no particular need to cop out in this fashion' but we've already moved beyond that subject.

>> No.1110102

>>1109316

Not sure if troll or a bad case of autism-

>> No.1110110
File: 16 KB, 642x674, wait.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1110110

>>1109316

Please be trolling.

>> No.1110150

>>1109032
>>1109316
what the fuck are you talking about

>> No.1110156

>>1107958
It absolutely does.

>> No.1110161

>>1110156

Especially in a fps with a lot of levels with enemies without ranged weapons. In Daikatana Said enemies also had the tendency to gets stuck with background objects while crawling towards you.

>> No.1110174

>>1104310
It kind of bothers me that when those games come up all the credit goes to him when there were many people that worked on those games, most of them completely forgoten

>> No.1110178

>>1110174
John Carmack too

>> No.1110194

>>1110178
Carmack seems to come up less and less on here these days, not sure why

>> No.1110213

>>1110194
Perhaps because he's still doing good work where he's at, and Romero is romanticized as this hero of the 'remember when' period.

>> No.1110287

>>1110161
didn't this happen in the first quake too?

>> No.1110292

>>1110287
I don't think so, it seemed pretty smooth/normal

>> No.1110297

>>1110213
well, some of the stuff that Romero is doing over at his new company is decent to, people seem to assume that just because they are smartphone/facebook apps they are automatically bad, which isn't always the case

>> No.1110308
File: 630 KB, 725x725, 1357367637461.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1110308

No, not really

Romero is still a millionaire, regarded as a legend and is living the good life, he's done a fortune off those Facebook and mobile games.

The bad part is that Carmack and Romero will probably never join forces again.

>> No.1110335

>>1110308
>implying that Carmack isn't also a millionaire, regarded as a legend and living the good life

>> No.1110337

>>1104310
actually he makes facebook games, and they are actually pretty good

>> No.1110341

>>1110337
any in particular that you like?

>> No.1110343

>>1110335
he is, what's your point? like I said, the only tragic part is that Romero isn't working on shooters anymore

>> No.1110347

>>1110343
he might make Quake 5 one day, which will have the same theme as Quake 1

>> No.1110350
File: 126 KB, 950x375, Party Romero.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1110350

>>1104310
He looks alright to me.

>> No.1110351

>>1110341
Ravenwood Fair is pretty much a legend amongst facebook games (now that it's shut down after development was handed over the the furcadia guy), and I've heard that Ghost Recon Commander is pretty good

>> No.1110356

Doom or Quake?

>> No.1110361

>>1110356
both?

>> No.1110364

>Chris Seavor
>Co-wrote, designed and directed Conker's Bad Fur Day(Saving the series)
>One of the highest acclaimed N64 titles
>Now works on phone games

Wasted talent, ugh... :(

>> No.1110378

>>1110364
>assuming games are bad just because of the platform they are on

>> No.1110380

>>1109316
hey dude I think I get you so level with me - are you saying that AI shouldn't be based on RNG factors and should rather be complex but simple so that you can actually form strategies around the rhythm of an enemy? Because RNG is not something you can actually plan for that well, and thus is a bit dumb at times when it actually just works in your favor and others just does nothing at all.

>> No.1110395

>>1110350
Damn, I wanted to post this

>> No.1110406

>>1110378
Phone games are linear and their is technological limitations.

>> No.1110426
File: 136 KB, 759x358, lolz.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1110426

>> No.1110458

Levelord always seemed a bit tragic to me. Someone who stumbled into fame and fortune because of his passion for making doom maps and then was unable to keep up with the times.
Just a bit to old when the whole thing started also.
Fortunately he seems to have put away enough money to retire early. Read these recent interviews:
http://www.shacknews.com/article/75336/where-are-they-now-richard-levelord-gray
http://gamestar.ru/english/1881.html

Thought judging from his facebook images he has now married a Russian mail order bride...

>> No.1110461

>>1110426
The party hat definitely contributes to the tragic look. "Happy birthday to......me...."

>> No.1110469
File: 136 KB, 1024x1044, vector-of-a-cartoon-man-laughing-hysterically-coloring-page-outline-by-ron-leishman-24212[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1110469

>>1110213
>Carmack
>doing good work since the late '90s

>> No.1110473

ya, daikatana as he wanted it to be was impossible to make for anything less than whatever the US military budget was at the time.

he was a cocky sumbitch who got too big for his britches, but that's a very human flaw so i forgive him.

that being said if i were on a cliff and he were at the bottom i wouldn't hesitate to pee on him

>> No.1110537

>>1110473
he probably would enjoy gargling it

>> No.1110539
File: 64 KB, 1152x514, 1338351833952.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1110539

I like it when the hats line up with older topics.

>> No.1110548

>>1110406
>Phone games are linear and their is technological limitations.
No they aren't and no there isn't, you twat.

Modern phones are more powerful than the computers that the "golden age" games ran on. Hardware has long since ceased to matter except for graphical bloat and certain processor-intensive games like Dwarf Fortress.

>> No.1110554

>>1104326
Keiji Inafune did not make Megaman

he's a conceptual artist who didn't even design Megaman. He's no more the father of Megaman than Yuji Naka is the father of Sonic.

>> No.1110564

>>1110548
this is true, you can even run doom on an iphone now

>> No.1111273

>>1110406
first off, not all phone games are the same, some may be linear, but some are not, like any other platform.
second off, may I remind you that you are on a board for gaming on platforms that were much more limited than smartphones, which are pretty much as powerful as desktop computers from 10 years ago

>> No.1111281

>>1107985
fun to make... but not fun to play

>> No.1111285

>>1108756
my grandparents actually had an ultra hand at their place when I was a kid, it was fun to play with, and I didn't even realize I was playing with a nintendo product, lol, if I did I probably would have just been confused, haha

>> No.1111294

>>1110564
In fact Quake worked reasonably well even on the first gen iphone. From Cydia, so it was hardly optimized.

>> No.1111295
File: 409 KB, 967x604, Daikatana.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1111295

Speaking of John Romero..

>> No.1111316

>>1111273
Difference being that old computers had functioning input devices like mice and keyboards while phones only have touch bullshit.

>> No.1111324

>>1111316
Pure hypocrisy. No one gave shit about the input devices at that time, they were just input devices available at that time. The whole thing about PC games (and controllers) being superior started with Half-life which made the FPS genre go down the spiral and Starcraft which killed RTS.
This killed PC gaming completely for me. Modern phone games are way more old school than "real" games. It's kinda my opinion, man.

>> No.1111356 [DELETED] 

>>1111324
Enjoy your shitty, unresponsive touch controls .

They aren't saving gaming at all, just making it all worse.

>> No.1111367

>>1104578
that actually looks fun

>> No.1111369

>>1111356
Ok. I won't enjoy the *controls* though I'm going to enjoy tha games, something *you* are missing.

>> No.1111391

>>1104578
So basically the only REAL problem with the game was bad team AI. Aren't there any farking mods that let you play it without them? 'Cause it looks like a pretty neat game otherwise.

>> No.1111406

>>1111391
Doesn't it mean that the game which was designed to be played with a team of AI-players was poorly… designed?

>> No.1111453

>>1111406
I'm not denying it was poorly designed you sarcastic prick. I'm just saying it looks like it could be a fun game to play with mods and I was wondering if I could play it that way. Now run along and stop getting on my nerves, anon, you fucking faggot.

>> No.1111459
File: 107 KB, 800x450, doom2f.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1111459

>>1110343
you never know, he just might be

>>1110308
why would carmack want to reunite with romero? A better match would be, say, someone like the guy who went by the stage name trans-x, who similarly kept being unable to relive his one hit wonder days, maybe he could make the next re-release of that song "living in vidya"

>> No.1111475

>>1111453
Oh, sorry. I've got your point though, but the game still has to be cult classic to have decent mods and Daikatana is just not that.

>> No.1111495

>>1111475
ok. I love you.

>> No.1111909

>>1106504
>>1108939
Nintendo higher ups were not in Yakuza
In fact Nintendo always took actions to ensure that the Yakuza wouldn't get their hands on their systems and games.

>> No.1111918

>>1106463
>It was a chain car accident, he died trying to help other people who were stuck in a car
no
>>1106504
also no

On October 4, 1997, while driving on the Hokuriku Expressway with his associate Etsuo Kiso, Yokoi rear-ended a truck driven by Takashi Okushima.[16][17] After the two men had left the car to inspect the damage, Yokoi was hit and fatally injured by two passing cars. Contrary to urban legends of foul play, the driver of one of the passenger cars that hit Yokoi in the second accident was Gen Tsushima, a member of the tourism industry.[17] Yokoi was pronounced dead two hours later.[4][18]

>> No.1113050

>>1104492
Single player is broke and buggy, no that's not worth shit. The multiplayer demo was interesting. You can shotgun jump like rocket jumping and the movements pretty decent. It's been ages since I've played it let alone against anyone so who knows. You can download it free and play against a friend or something for shits and giggles. Just don't expect much.

>> No.1113281

>>1108095

Shame the fights are very quickly over in FEAR. You rarely see their genious if you just go spraying and praying into every battle.

>> No.1113381
File: 32 KB, 521x452, 1333064498705.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1113381

>>1109032
the fuck are you going on about son
>>1109316

>> No.1113392

Someone mentioned David Crane, so I thought of Howard Scott Warshaw. A good programmer, who made two of the best games on the 2600, and who was given 5 weeks to make an incredibly financially important game, becoming the creator of the worst game of all time and the biggest contributor to the downfall of Atari next to Tramiel.

>> No.1113479

>>1113392
From looking at his wikipedia though he seems to be doing extremely well for himself.
Making documentaries, becoming a psychotherapist and as late as June this year contributing some museum of modern art.

>> No.1114489
File: 82 KB, 1022x768, brilliant.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1114489

>>1104332
>>not retro
Ahh, the kicker!

>> No.1114513
File: 58 KB, 480x329, GE007.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1114513

>>1109316
>The very notion of a FPS game using a controller pad automatically renders it unplayable
This is the wrong board, I think you meant to post that in /v/...

>> No.1114545

>>1104393
I think it was because of Carmack really missing the old Romero that would work in the trenches with him, testing things giving feedback while he coded. For id to have a public face, no one else wanted the job and Romero was perfect for it, perhaps too perfect.

>> No.1114576

>>1114513
No, sorry, he's right.

007 was the original crappy console FPS with horrible gamepad controls.

I swear, Nintendo must have had some strong mind control voodoo going on with the N64 to make it put so much wrong in people's minds.

>> No.1114583

>>1114576
Funny thing is I always play Doom with a NES controller (plus a little keyboard).

>> No.1114594

>>1106498
why does that seem to be a big problem with FPS development? They want to make some ambitious project then 2 engine come out and its either stay behind or scrap it all and try to keep up. DNF basically suffered that early on and even Prey had the same issue

>> No.1114598

>>1114545
>>1106489
I still wonder what could have been if they let Romero stay awhile longer to see if the rockstar appeal might fade out and then reign him back in to help with develop games. Could he have helped id to stay as good as it was even today?

>> No.1114603

>>1106589
wasn't there a time when EA was a good company?
wasn't there a time when Epic Megagames was a cool PC publisher that competed with Apogee?

>> No.1114614

>>1114603
> wasn't there a time when EA was a good company?
Was there?

>> No.1114625

>>1108032
Frankly, it only started selling badly because of repeated poor entries into the franchise.

It's probably for the best that they take a break for a while, but it's a shame that we lost at least three potentially interesting titles because of it. I probably would have tried Maverick Hunter as it would have been taken in a direction the series had never gone in and likely never will now.

>> No.1114634

>>1114603
Retro gamers have been hating EA for a long time because of what they did to the Ultima franchise.

>> No.1114638

>>1114614
When they weren't disbanding the studios like Westwood, Maxis, and Bullfrog, EA was a good company.

>> No.1114647
File: 13 KB, 347x200, Undyinglogo2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1114647

I don't know if he counts, but Clive Barker. He stepped in when Undying was going to shit and turned it around. Jericho had a good premise and setting but poor execution. After that I'm sure he's turned off to games altogether. Jericho would have been awesome if you just played as one superpowered dude with loads of weapons and spells instead of a bunch people you had to babysit. He was even going to make as RPG at one point. It was all over too soon.

>> No.1114654

>>1114638
Well they've started fucking up with Bullfrog pretty early, 1994 IIRC. But it wasnt's that obvious until Moulyneux left the company.

>> No.1114681

>>1114647
Clive Barker doesn't count. He's a hugely successful author.

>> No.1114692
File: 167 KB, 367x458, 1370239678988.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1114692

>>1110469
>>Carmack
>>doing good work since the late '90s
>lel reaction image
He works on high quality game engines and ENGINEERS FUCKING SPACE SHIPS in his spare time. What more do you want from the man?

>> No.1114696

>>1111324
I'm not sure what to say about this.
Who cares about the history? Touch screens are profoundly limited compared to keyboard and mouse, or even gamepads. The latency sucks, the number of distinct operations you can perform at any given moment is limited, and you never ever feel "comfortable" with the controls, the muscle memory for an action always being a little bit off. Hell, even just browsing the web on my iPhone, I find myself trying to scroll, fucking up, and accidentally clicking a link in the process.

The only place I see touch screens being an acceptable interface are for the more traditionally menu-driven genres, like RPGs. I'd love to hear otherwise, but I'm not aware of any iOS or Android games that use the touch screen interface to provide an experience half as complex as a generic PS1 RPG.

>> No.1114716

In an attempt to bring this tread back on track. How about Ken Silverman?
He seems to be genuinely depressed nowadays:
http://misterdai.yougeezer.co.uk/2010/03/25/retro-game-interview-ken-silverman-duke-nukem-3d/

>No. I don’t play other people’s games anymore. Modern games just make me depressed, because it shows how far behind I have become.
>My memories are fading like a DRAM without a refresh of charge. You’ll have to find the answer in one of my previous interviews.

Apparently he gets by working half time at his dads college.

>> No.1114761
File: 9 KB, 242x208, feels for breakfast.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1114761

>>1114716
>>No. I don’t play other people’s games anymore. Modern games just make me depressed, because it shows how far behind I have become.
I don't even make games, but I know how this feels...

>> No.1114778

>>1104310
>roasted by the press because a quote hurt their feelings

Nah bro. You don't get to act retarded trying to be edgy and then cry victim when people just bluntly tell you to fuck off.

Also you act like Daikatana wasn't a fucking travesty.

Romero was a greedhead who might've loved games once but loved money and being an egomaniac wannabe rockstar more. He's pretty much just as bad as someone like Bobby Kotick.

>> No.1114867

>>1104332

Yeah, that really sucks.

I always loved the Saturn and Dreamcast but they were both released at bad times, had bad marketing, and they failed to secure developers.

>> No.1114872

>>1114716
>>1114761

Oh man, don't remind me

Ken Silverman might be the most tragic figure of 90s gaming

>Programmed the Build engine when he was only 16
>Thanks to him we got some of the best shooters in history, Duke Nukem 3D, Blood, Shadow Warrior and more
>Was being considered a major rival to John Carmack
>Gave up after Quake started taking over
>Retired from the industry at a very early age
>Released the source code for his engine and all his stuff to please the fans
>Got another job and went completely unnoticed by the media
>Stopped playing modern games

Well.. at least he's still fine and keeps doing what he likes...

>> No.1114887

>>1114696
I assure you nobody was able to use the mouse when the fscking thing came out and nobody knew how to make interfaces which worked really well. The problem is mouse was around for quite a long time and touch screens became widespread not a long time ago. Things will change as time passes.
> the number of distinct operations you can perform at any given moment is limited
This is ridiculous. At least with multitouch you can actually perform several actions at the same time, with the mouse you just can't do that at all.
> just browsing the web on my iPhone, I find myself trying to scroll, fucking up
I don't thing the touchscreen is to blame here. It's because the web is not documents with hyperlinks anymore, but some fancy-pantsy shit filled with flash/javascript/other crap, it's easy to fuck up even using the mouse, I think I do it as often as when I use touchscreen.

>> No.1114891

>>1114716

I read the interview and wow, just wow.

I wonder if he still gets royalties from the re-releases on steam, xbla, gog.com, etc.

>> No.1114893

>>1110364

remember the hype when it was gonna be released on xbox and it ended up being a port lol

>> No.1116086
File: 77 KB, 485x369, testicle face.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1116086

>>1106463
This was the first guy I did a ctrl+f for on this page. There truly is no just and loving god in this universe.

>> No.1116107

>>1108424
I remember watching a video of him demoing the game onstage after they had changed the creatures from believable lifeforms to cartoony things. Someone in the audience asked why they changed it and you could see this conflict play across Will's face. Finally after a couple seconds of awkward silence he curtly said "To make it cute."

I just wanted to buy him a stiff drink and pat him back.

>> No.1116197
File: 84 KB, 500x544, John Romeros career.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1116197

Romero thread?

>> No.1116204
File: 411 KB, 504x676, You could have stopped it.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1116204

Why didn't you stop it?

>> No.1116350

>>1110335
yeah but he is also Zenimax's bitch, and they wont let him work on actually making Gamebryo not shit

>> No.1116351

>>1114614
2007-2009 was their best years, cause of all the new IPs

>> No.1116358
File: 49 KB, 576x432, jokerisnotamused.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1116358

>>1116351
>implying that IPs being acquired by EA is a good thing for the IPs, gamers, or anyone other than EA
It would be better for the IPs to die a natural death than be kept on life support by the pitiless void that is Electronic Arts.

>> No.1116368

>>1114634
And then to name their shitty steam clone "origin"...disgraceful

>> No.1116370

>>1110554

Megaman was his life's work

>> No.1116530

>>1116350
why would he waste his time with that shit he's got rockets to build

>> No.1116572

>>1116358
By that time they were actually making new IPs.
Mirror's edge, all that shit.
It even seemed that they were the lesser of the two evils compared to activision.

Then they bought Bioware and the ride began anew.

>> No.1116580
File: 2.63 MB, 2000x3008, 18110461.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1116580

>>1104332

You are wrong. We who delve in the religion of shenmue, cherish this man extensively.

His face is on the dreamcast's tech demo parodying marios.

If I am 100% sure to fail in every single thing I do in my life, I might as well fail as honorably as he did.

He did fail, but did so far, far more honorably than most people suceed. I look up to him, and I would gladly verbally attack anyone who does not.

>> No.1116581

>>1116580

Worst part is, the downfall of sega is partially to blame for this man's unbound passion.

Segata sanshiro was some lukewarm fag next to this guy

>> No.1116767

>>1110174
John Carmack, Adrian Carmack, Tom Hall, and Michael Abrash are not "completely forgotten."

>> No.1116784

>>1116767
>Adrian Carmack
>Michael Abrash
>not completely forgotten

Pick one.

>> No.1116789
File: 182 KB, 400x374, yuuka cry.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1116789

>>1114716
>No. I don’t play other people’s games anymore. Modern games just make me depressed, because it shows how far behind I have become.

>>1114778
Yeah. It's like when stand-up comedians joke about rape or call someone a nigger, than act like they're being oppressed when people boo and jeer.

John Romero always kinda struck me as kind of a Howard Wolowitz.

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