/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.11023731]

Why didn't they just make Adventure 3 rather than this bullshit?

[Anonymous No.11023745]

>>11023731
Adventure 3 became Unleashed IIRC, this game was developed from scratch.

[Anonymous No.11023789]

The mood at Sonic Team that led to games like Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 was snuffed out when the Dreamcast died. Eventually they will make an actual Sonic Adventure 3 and it will disappoint.

[Anonymous No.11023792]

>>11023731
Play Shadow the Hedgehog, it's essentially SA2.5 sort of like how Sonic & Knuckles is "Sonic 3 Part Two"

[Anonymous No.11023816]

>>11023792
Feels more like Sonic Heroes without the team mechanics, but that could be because both games share the same engine.

[Anonymous No.11023823]

They made Adventure 3, twice.

[Anonymous No.11023829]

>>11023823
06' barely felt like an Adventure game. Any character that wasn't Sonic or Blaze played like shit.

[Anonymous No.11023834]

It occurs to me that if they had just called Sonic Adventure 2 "Sonic Shadows" or something, no one would even know they wanted a "Sonic Adventure 3", and there would be no conception of a "Sonic Adventure series".
Those two games are very different in the first place. The only thing that really holds them together, against the rest of the series is Chaos.
And even then I think if 06 had Chaos, people would be finding excuses for why it's not "real Sonic Adventure".

2, Shadow, and 06 are more of a unit than SA1 and 2 are.
SA1 is still half in the 90's era of Sonic where it was all bright colours, Angel Island lore, animal capsules, and Dr Eggman being a goofy doofy idiot and shit.

[Anonymous No.11023837]

>>11023731
Because this IS adventure 3

You sonicfags just can't accept Sonic always sucked in 3d

[Anonymous No.11023839]

>>11023834
>SA1 is still half in the 90's era of Sonic where it was all bright colours, Angel Island lore, animal capsules, and Dr Eggman being a goofy doofy idiot and shit.
Nah, SA1 establishes the new universe of Sonic where it takes place on Earth with real humans and cities being everywhere, rather than on some bizarre Mario-style alien planet

[Anonymous No.11023843]

>>11023839
SA1 world looks a lot like the OVA world. That's pretty much Japan's conception of what the Sonic world was supposed to be in the 90's era, which differs from the Western Mobius lore.

[Anonymous No.11023854]

>>11023843
If we're going strictly by the games (which are the only media which is truly canon) then there is a huge shift from the Mega Drive era games to Adventure 1.

Classic Sonic is aesthetically just a Mario rip-off with non-verbal characters, a non-sensical cartoon world, wacky animals, a villain with no real personality or motivations. Adventure was the first game to change all of those things up.

[Anonymous No.11023856]

>>11023837
Have you played Sonic GT? It's one of the best fan efforts in 3D.

[Anonymous No.11023863]

>>11023829
That sounds like Sonic Adventure to me.

[Anonymous No.11023867]

>>11023863
Gameplay sure isn't as good, though.

[Anonymous No.11023874]

>>11023854
Debatable. SA1 has a casino zone and a carnival zone. There's a lot of that same colourful abstract imagery.
The shift in style away from geometric shapes, and checkerboard patterns, towards a more naturalistic looking world would be the main point of contention.

SA2 establishes that whole new aesthetic of dark city streets, Akira techno-dungeons, enemy mechs looking more like serious instruments of war, as opposed to a Wile-E Coyote contraptions.

[Anonymous No.11023876]

>>11023834
The fuck are you talking about? Adventure 1 and 2 aren't far apart in gameplay concepts at all, and their stories have several direct connections. Heroes is completely alien by comparison outside of a few characters' existence and a throwaway line from Sonic that wasn't even translated properly. Shadow continues some plot threads from Adventure 2 in various awful ways but as >>11023816 noted it plays way more like a bad fan mod of Heroes that adds guns and removes the teams.

[Anonymous No.11023884]

>>11023876
>complete tonal shift
>no hub world (how it still counts as "adventure" in spite of this I never understood)
>half of the gameplay concepts from SA1 jettisoned. Now you just have speed, treasure hunting, and shooting stages
>can't play as the real Tails. He's in a mech now
>Sonic even looks different

How do people not see the enormous difference between these games? This stuff annoyed me when I was a kid, because I liked SA1 more.

[Anonymous No.11023894]

>>11023884
>>Sonic even looks different
In-game, yes, but SA2 Sonic looks identical to the artwork from SA1 (apart from the shoes of course).

[Anonymous No.11023895]

>>11023884
>no hub world
backtracking sucks
>half of the gameplay concepts from SA1 jettisoned. Now you just have speed, treasure hunting, and shooting stages
They left behind fishing because everyone hated it
>can't play as the real Tails. He's in a mech now
Tails levels were just Sonic's but short and broken because of flying

[Anonymous No.11023896]

In some regards 06 is a truer sequel to SA1 than SA2 is, but people aren't ready to hear that.

[Anonymous No.11023901]

>>11023895
>those differences don't count, because I don't like those things
Wasn't asking.

If they ever do make SA3, I would want it to have hub worlds, so we're already disagreeing on what the correct direction of the Sonic Adventure series is.

[Anonymous No.11023903]

>>11023884
There isn't some huge tonal shift, Adventure 1 had shit like the Echidna tribe burning down, Eggman getting desperate and launching a nuke at Station Square, and everything surrounding Perfect Chaos. Adventure 2 isn't some super serious story either, Sonic goofily boards a space shuttle only to have a comic relief scene where he fights with Knuckles and knocks the Master Emerald shards out of it. They trimmed down on the amount of playable character types, but as you yourself note, the three that are present are close to Adventure 1's. Heroes' gameplay doesn't feel remotely close to anything in particular from either game.

The replayable mission concept with varied objectives from Adventure 1 was heavily expanded in 2 for its mission board, the games both feature a Chao Garden (a concept heavily built upon by Adventure 2 in comparison to 1), etc.

[Anonymous No.11023906]

>>11023816
Aesthetically and story-wise it is closer to SA2

>>11023884
You can maybe blame SEGA for splitting them into "eras" in Generations. There has also been this weird push in recent years to make Saturn Sonic a thing, even though it never really was

[Anonymous No.11023908]

>>11023906
Sonic World doesn't count? RIP.

[Anonymous No.11023909]

>>11023903
SA1 is the capstone of the Angel Island arc, and is still very much in "Eggman is a silly villain territory". SA2 is the beginning of the Shadow arc, and the first time Eggman was more or less depicted as entirely competent and imposing.
They're very different entities.

[Anonymous No.11023910]

>>11023901
>>those differences don't count, because I don't like those things
Correct. But it's not only me, it's most of the fanbase.

[Anonymous No.11023915]

>>11023910
"most of the fanbase" in your mind.
You'll find, if you talk to people, there's no great consensus on whether SA1 or SA2 is better.
SA1 is better, by the way.

[Anonymous No.11023916]

>>11023896
I've heard this before and it makes sense. Has hub worlds, RPG elements, and even the Egg Carrier is in it. Same can be said of Frontiers, sort of

[Anonymous No.11023918]

>>11023915
You're in denial if you think most people liked the fishing. SA2 was in many ways a direct response to the things people liked or didn't like about SA1. Apparently those people were numerous enough to cause Sonic Team to change design philosophy. Backtracking and fishing may be fun for you but most people disagreed.

[Anonymous No.11023919]

>>11023909
IS he silly? he has killbots with guns that graduate by murdering their brothers and summons a fucking water god that drowns a realistic-ish human city and a chunk of its inhabitants, no matter what "oh they evacuated :^)" voicelines might add

[Anonymous No.11023925]

>>11023918
The fishing is bad, but at least in SA1, I can pick it up and only play the Sonic stages, if I want.
SA2 makes me play Knuckles, which I don't enjoy.

I also never bought this meme that "backtracking" was a bad thing in games. I like a world to feel like a world. That's what made it an adventure.

[Anonymous No.11023932]

>>11023908
It doesn't work because Sonic skipped the Saturn obviously, like Metroid on N64

It should be CD Sonic or 32X Sonic since those had actual games on them

[Anonymous No.11023936]

>>11023932
32X Sonic sorta had a comeback, but I'm not sure if that accurately describes Mania.

[Anonymous No.11023939]

>>11023919
You got to his space ship, where funky music plays, and little robot maids are wandering around, and you can beat his high score in whack a mole, which makes him exclaim in anger.

His arc in the game is that he awakens an ancient God, and loses control of the ancient god, because he's a bumbling fool.

SA2 has him blowing up the moon, and pointing an actual gun in Amy's face, and shit, and he almost succeeds at killing Sonic for real. He's metal in that game.

[Anonymous No.11023948]

>>11023939
>mephelis actually kills sonic
More of a chad than Shadow, desu.

[Anonymous No.11023949]

>>11023936
Good observation, it even uses the Chaotix palette/sprites for Knuckles

[Anonymous No.11023957]

>>11023949
Mania IS a love-letter, afterall. I'm still shocked they managed to reference unused sprites.

[Anonymous No.11023970]

>>11023939
Funny how you ignore the part brought up earlier in the thread about him firing a live warhead into the middle of a densely populated city and then going to arm it when it winds up as a dud just to make sure he can kill as many as possible to send a message, which is way worse than nervously threatening Amy during Crazy Gadget with voicelines and an outcome that imply he had no intention to truly harming her. Blowing up the moon is merely a threat as well and causes no potential loss of life within the story.

[Anonymous No.11023980]

>>11023970
Pissing on the moon is a bigger threat.

[Anonymous No.11023990]

>>11023970
"blowing up the city" is still cartoon villainy though. That's Lex Luthor shit.
And you get the sense that he doesn't really intend to destroy the city, because when Chaos actually destroys the city, he's like "oh no".

[Anonymous No.11024025]

>>11023980
>Potentially huge loss of life is worse than a show of power in a way that doesn't endanger anyone

>>11023990
He doesn't really intend to destroy the city, when you have to race him to his city-destroying missile explicitly so that he can't detonate it? His reaction in Adventure 1 is being pissed that Chaos is disobeying him. not concern for Station Square. Go watch the Super Sonic story cutscenes again.

[Anonymous No.11024120]

>>11023970
>no potential loss of life within the story
FUCK YOU COASTAL COMMUNITIES, ENJOY YOUR TIDES NOW IDIOT

[Anonymous No.11024164]

Why didn't they just make Sonic 4?

[Anonymous No.11024170]

>>11024164
They already did that, except it was shit.

[Anonymous No.11024192]

>>11024170
sonic 4 was just sonic the portable until some executive had the big idea that "if we trick them into thinking it's sonic 4 it'll sell more!" before the game tanked, the brand tanked, and he probably blamed the devs and got promoted

[Anonymous No.11024202]

>>11024192
That's embarrassing, they could've ported the Stealth remasters of S1-2 to platforms outside of Android/iOS around that time.

[Anonymous No.11024203]

>>11024164
Pocket Adventure exists though

[Anonymous No.11024205]

>>11024203
That was just portable Sonic 2, but with 3&K's music.

[Anonymous No.11024216]

>>11024192
>the game tanked, the brand tanked, and he probably blamed the devs and got promoted
They don't think it be like it is.
But it do.

[Anonymous No.11024915]

>>11023867
No but that doesn't mean that doesn't make Sonic Adventure a better game.

[Anonymous No.11024919]

>>11023867
>>11024915
Better game than what it is I mean, it's absolutely better than 06

[Anonymous No.11024924]

>>11024919
Absolutely no contest, each character could actually move at a decent speed.

[Anonymous No.11025141]

>>11023854
Classic Sonic was defined by not being a Mario rip-off, regardless of how different regions handled that. When characters could be made to speak or be part of stories, they were made to do that, be it through small voice clips in CD or a wordless story in 3. When the world could be given some depth or ground, it's given that (in 3, again), and concepts from one game carry over to another (some of 2's scrapped stage concept art went over to influence 3's, some of 3's scrapped concepts seem to have influenced Adventure such as the dragon thing). The villain, from the start, was defined by being a scientific genius that acts like a child. Those are all things from games or meant to be in the games, and the reason Adventure might feel odd to some is because some of it's progression was done and scrapped in development, with stages like early Windy Valley being redone due to the original version not running well on the Dreamcast.

[Anonymous No.11025146]

>>11023731
the fall of the dreamcast ruined many SEGA franchises. Look at Shining and Phantasy Star

[Anonymous No.11025303]

>>11024192
The brand did not tank because, as much as I dislike the game itself and everything it represents, Colors sold and reviewed very well during this time, and most people were just happy to see a new 2D Sonic game in general. That entire decade ended up just being an overreaction to 06's reception though, Sonic 4 included. Sad to think of what could've been

I have no real clue what SEGA or Sonic Team are doing at this point, I feel like much of the hype for Frontiers was forced (pun not intended), Superstars looks nice but I have no real reason to play it when we have the Genesis games already. If nothing else at least there's still Sonic 3.

[Anonymous No.11025316]

>>11025303
2D Sonic games are overrated. 3D Sonic games are underrated. I'm sick of you faggots shitting on Adventure for the past 20 years while acting like the Mega Drive games are "perfect masterpieces". Shut the fuck up. Just cause you played those games when you were 2 years old doesn't mean they're good

[Anonymous No.11025317]

>>11023731
Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 is the same bullshit. I’d rather play the gg or master system games. Sonic 3D Blast and Knuckles Chaotix is where I check out.

All the 3d Sonics had physics that just didn’t feel right. They had bad camera, collision, glitches and the momentum did not work how the genesis games worked. I especially loathe the god awful story and voices ever since he went 3d. And stuffing different gameplay styles into a bad platformer. Who wants fishing and “Tails’s Panzer Dragoon Jr.” or Chao farms when the actual levels and physics needed desperate attention.

Mario 64 did it right in the transition to 3d, it had minimal story (Sonic 1 understood this), great controls and simple levels and I for one didn’t have problems with the camera.

Granted, getting the physics right in 3D Sonic is so much harder than in something like Mario because so much of the 2d sonic games revolve around momentum combined with precise control. In 3d theres just so many things going on with that extra axis it becomes a nightmare in game design where sonic can launch out of the game zone at any time. Controlling something moving super fast in 3d is way harder than in 2d and controlling it while hitting slopes and half pipes and etc. just doesn’t work in 3d. So you get the homing attack and either bad, slow platforming of speed setpieces where you hold the joystick. Sonic in 3d would’ve had to have been almost like the Downhill Jam level of Tony Hawk to work and feel at all like Sonic. Instead they took out the physics that made it Sonic. Sega maybe could have made something good if they knew what they were doing at any point in the late 90s or 2000s, but they never did.

My favorite polygonal Sonic game is Sonic R but that doesn’t mean I think its good. Its playable.

I haven’t played the recently released one, did they ever figure it out?

[Anonymous No.11025318]

>>11023731
I wonder if people were bothered about Knuckles role as the guardian of the master emerald vanishing as soon as this game released.

[Anonymous No.11025329]

>>11025317
Sonic GT is better than anything Sega released as far a physics goes.

[Anonymous No.11025340]

>>11025318
I never understood this, he's a character who serves a purpose beyond guarding the emerald, otherwise why would he be playable in the first place. It's like saying Tails should be in his lab building planes and gadgets the entire time

[Anonymous No.11025363]

>>11023792
Been trying to tell people this for years, Shadow is the true sequel to SA2. Has standard get to the end of the stage levels, has scavenger hunt levels similar to Knuckles and Rouge emerald hunting, and it has weapon combat focused levels like Tails and Eggman. As an SA2 fan I have always enjoyed it and been really confused as to why everyone else hates it.

[Anonymous No.11025396]

>>11023731
Sonic Battle is the true Sonic Adventure 3, storywise.

[Anonymous No.11025419]

i feel like a golden God for having zero problems with the fishing, at 15 years old, in 1999.
jesus, kids, you press up on your control stick when something bites. it really is that shrimple.

[Anonymous No.11025437]

>>11023731
>WHATEVER I WANT
>I GET
>I WANT A SHOOTING STAR
>WHATEVER I NEED
>I HAVE
>WHEN I'M WITH YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

[Anonymous No.11025484]

>>11025363
Because in Adventure 2 the alternate gameplay modes are fun and decently realized, with it only really getting frustrating with Mad Space going a bit too far. In Shadow all of the alternate objectives are fucking terrible, just like in Heroes with Team Chaotix. The ones where you have to destroy a moving target especially.

It doesn't help that almost everything it adds to Shadow's character and background is fanfiction tier and barely gels with what Sonic Adventure 2 set up. At least it having more ARK stages was fun. And I can't fully blame them for trying to give the fans exactly what they had been asking for.

[Anonymous No.11025550]

>>11025419
I feel like the same people having trouble with the extremely simple fishing minigame would suffer an aneurysm if they tried the fishing minigame in Persona 4.

[Anonymous No.11026117]

>>11023731
This was the game that made me drop sonic as a series. It was so fucking bad.

[Anonymous No.11026457]

>>11025316
Sonic Classic Heroes and Sonic 3 Complete are better ways to play the classics on real hardware.

[Anonymous No.11026475]

>>11025316
I like both of them honestly

[Anonymous No.11026478]

>>11026457
I meant Sonic movie 3, not Sonic 3 the game

[Anonymous No.11026481]

>>11026475
I hope your parents get lung cancer

[Anonymous No.11026484]

>>11025316
Every 2D Sonic is easily twice as good as every 3D Sonic.
At it's worst, 2D Sonic is just a competent platformer, that's still better than Jazz Jackrabbit, or Kid Chameleon or whatever.
And at it's best, 3D Sonic is still kind of fucked. I even like some of those games, but they're kind of fucked. Even lesser spoken of 3D platformers of the era like Pac-Man World, or Disney Licensed games are pretty much better assembled than 3D Sonic is.

It's okay to just admit you like the soundtracks, and the dreamcast aesthetic, because I like that too.

[Anonymous No.11026492]

Also, nu-3D Sonic is better, and "fans" have brainrot.

[Anonymous No.11026504]

>>11026492
I thought Frontiers was easily the best out of the boost games, since you could actually roam around and shit.

[Anonymous No.11026510]

>>11026484
>Every 2D Sonic is easily twice as good as every 3D Sonic.

[Anonymous No.11026513]

>>11026510
tfw brazillians get a lazy master system port

[Anonymous No.11026517]

>>11026510
Probably even that one.

[Anonymous No.11027097]

>>11026492
forces did suck though, had a cool premise but the gameplay/level design was just worse generations and the story was a below average mess even for modern schlock
making sonic OCs canon was amazing in a shitpost kinda way though, and lost world is overhated and LW2 with the issues ironed out and more emphasis on the parkour system would've been a masterpiece don't (you) me

[Anonymous No.11027107]

>>11023731
This was their first cross platform release after they no longer made hardware so yeah

[Anonymous No.11027109]

>>11027097
Canon OCs were a ballsy move on SEGA's part, wish they did that years ago.

[Anonymous No.11029204]

>>11026510
I got a 100% 1LC on both the Game Gear and the Master System versions... for some reason... it's a comfortable title I guess, good for begginers, at least until Blue Marine zone, that's a tough one...

[Anonymous No.11029209]

>>11023867
Gameplay in Adventure 1-2 wasn't as good either.

[Anonymous No.11029215]

>>11023906
>There has also been this weird push in recent years to make Saturn Sonic a thing, even though it never really was

Sonic R was a thing and it was the reason I got a Saturn when it came out.

[Anonymous No.11029226]

>>11027097
The argument that Sega abandoned "serious story telling" makes no sense when you consider Forces though. That's one of the few attempts by the series to treat Robotnik as if he's a formidable villain.
It's just "wrong" because it is. Sonic fans will never articulate why exactly. They just know they hate it. And they hate it because it's not the specific Sonic game they grew up with.

[Anonymous No.11029391]

>>11023909
You forget facts like him being in control of time in Sonic CD, or trying to squash sonic with a giant gundam in Sonic 2, trying to drown him in burning magma in S&K or trying to ion cannon him down in the final boss fight, having a motherfucking death star to begin with, etc.

>>11023970
destroying the moon would completely fuck over nearly all life on Earth, you'd have mass extinctions in the animal kingdom, and the lack of tides would make weather conditions more extreme.

[Anonymous No.11029440]

>>11029226
Sonic fans aren't even really wrong about criticisms of character portrayals but at the same time they're willing to excuse certain inconsistencies in certain arguements.

[Anonymous No.11029495]

>>11029391
And yet him blowing up half the moon in Adventure 2 has no adverse effects whatsoever. It's pretty clearly used just as a way for him to demonstrate the cannon's power without actually using it in a way that would harm anyone, so the real world implications can be safely ignored.

[Anonymous No.11029538]

>>11023731
Because the PS2 was such a bitch to develop for that they had to rely on Renderware instead of just porting the Adventure engine like they did with the GameCube ports.

[Anonymous No.11029570]

>>11023731
they knew it was shit and didn't want to tarnish the Adventure name.

[Anonymous No.11029681]

>>11029226
Forces tried to have a serious narrative, but when you have stuff like a time card saying Eggman took over the world in 6 months or the characters saying that Sonic has been tortured for months and then we see him and absolutely nothing has changed about him or Sonic and the OC getting sent to Null Space only to immediately leave, it just piles up.
It doesn't help in Forces' case that you have at least three "Sonic leads a band of freedom fighters against Robotnik" stories (SATAM, Archie Sonic and Sonic The Comic) that aren't constrained by the merit of being a video game with only 3 playable characters.

[Anonymous No.11029691]

I only liked it because I can check Amy panties

[Anonymous No.11031462]

>>11029691
Based.

[Anonymous No.11032445]

>>11024164
Sonic Advance was developed with mindset of "we're making Sonic 4" just like Sonic 06 was developed with the mindset of "we're making Adventure 3", Sonic Team just weren't wholly invested in using specific titles. I wish I could find that interview with Naka where he specifically talked about this in relation to the former.

[Anonymous No.11032451]

>>11024192
>before the game tanked
Except the first part of Sonic 4 sold very well and was well-received by everyone except hardcore fans.
The second part tanked because Sega thought it would be a good idea to wait two years to release episode 2 for whatever reason, and by that point the audience they had initially garnered had already lost interest even though it was a slight improvement over the first.

[Anonymous No.11032457]

>>11032451
No playable Knuckles was a severe loss, that's for damn sure.

[Anonymous No.11034109]

>>11026513
Brazil CHADS keep winning.

[Anonymous No.11034127]

>>11023823
Sega needs to announce Sonic Adventure 3, then just re-release Sonic ‘06 with a different title screen.

[Anonymous No.11034135]

>>11029681
Serious storytelling in Sonic, btw
https://youtu.be/YG7ShdnU_WU?si=VEQnGZpSx4KNxoJt&t=774

[Anonymous No.11034230]

>>11023792
And make sure to patch it with the Reloaded mod for the many improvements

[Anonymous No.11034234]

>>11023829
Sonic's campaign was literally the worst part of 06 by far

[Anonymous No.11034246]

>>11023731
That game is better than the Adventures games though

[Anonymous No.11034294]

>>11023884
Most people don't actually pay attention, even to things they claim to love and obsess over.

Personally, I agree with you. SA2 felt like such a weird departure, and did a lot of doubling down some of SA1's biggest flaws, while removing the fun stuff. SA1 felt analogous to the whole '90s Sonic/Sega vibe, while SA2 did not.

>>11023903
>Adventure 1 had shit like the Echidna tribe burning down, Eggman getting desperate and launching a nuke at Station Square, and everything surrounding Perfect Chaos
Yes, but that's not "tone". Tone is the way in which those particular events are portrayed in the context of the world and story. You can have tragic and/or devastating things happen, but the tone will change how the audience perceives them. It's the difference between seeing a city get destroyed in a silver age Superman comic vs. a city getting destroyed in a grimdark bronze/modern age Superman comic. Tone is the whole reason people had an issue with Man of Steel despite it showing Superman doing the same kind of shit he's been doing in comics for 60+ years.

Even just the way a lot of the actors deliver lines in SA2 is enough to make the game feel like a downer. Sometimes they sound like they're giving a fucking eulogy.

[Anonymous No.11034332]

>>11034294
>Tone is the way in which those particular events are portrayed in the context of the world and story.
I think the hub world is one of those things that really helped give SA1 a more lighthearted tone than 2. It gave you a place to be chill and talk to people and run around like a retard, and feel like Sonic was actually a real living character. I unironically enjoyed talking to all the NPCs in between levels and seeing how their dialogue updates because they all have little arcs, or references to other game events, and depending on which story you're playing, you get to witness things differently. It's very minor, but it gave SA1 a much more laid-back vibe.

Some of the NPCs even have fairly depressing stories, like the little girl whose dad is a workaholic and she waits alone for him by the train station for pretty much the whole game, or the kid whose mom has a gambling addiction and leaves him unattended outside the casino on multiple occasions while he cries. But it's presented in a lighthearted way so that there's no doubt in your mind by the end of that game, dad takes some time off to spend with his daugter, mom breaks her gambling addiction, and none of them die in the horrible, apocalyptic flood that destroys the city.

But SA2? SA2 has a little girl get shot in the head. Even if it doesn't show it, the tone is such that it is treated as a serious tragedy. When Gerald Robotnik's doomsday weapon launches, even Eggman puts on a serious face.

Also what the fuck was this Neon Genesis Evangelion wannabe trash? Even as a teenager in the year 2000, I thought this was cringe as fuck. This is the total antithesis to SA1's tone:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfI9tyGatlk

[Anonymous No.11034384]

>>11034294
>>11034332
>Tone is the way in which those particular events are portrayed in the context of the world and story.

>Flashback in which the emerald shrine is ablaze in the night while the echidna tribe literally runs Tikal over and kicks a bunch of innocent crying Chao out of the way as they try to seize power, only to have Chaos appear and have the screen cut to light as he murders them all with Pacha's scream being the last thing you hear
You literally see the dead corpses of Chao lying around on the shrine grounds as Tikal is utterly horrified at what she just saw unfold and goes to seal herself and Chaos away forever to stop him from committing further atrocities. It's a pretty dark scene, and there are MULTIPLE flashbacks to this whole sequence of events.

>But SA2? SA2 has a little girl get shot in the head.

>You see Maria and Shadow running frantically, and the moment that Maria sends Shadow off. That's it.
You do NOT ever see her get shot. Shadow the Hedgehog added that. Her death is implied, nothing else.

You have an incredibly poor memory of both games and have no idea what you're talking about.

[Anonymous No.11034432]

>>11034384
Chao aren't people

[Anonymous No.11034437]

>>11023731
games journos said
>NOOOOOO ADVENTURE IS LE BAD WE NEED A MORE STRAIGHTFORWARD PLATFORMER
and so Sega listened. People forget that for a while the classicucks praised Sonic Heroes as a "return to classic Sonic" for getting away from Adventure.

basically the answer to every single "why did Sonic Team do x" question is "because journos told them to"

[Anonymous No.11034450]

>>11025396
very good taste

[Anonymous No.11034451]

>>11034437
They were right. The worst part of the adventure games is all of the gameplay that isn't just running through a series of linear platforming stages.
They should have just made Spark the Electric Jester 3 to begin with, because that's what everyone wanted Sonic Adventure to be at the time. You can keep the hub world, but no one wants those Knuckles stages to be mandatory, let alone Big.

[Anonymous No.11034465]

>>11034384
>You literally see the dead corpses of Chao lying around on the shrine grounds
So? You also see the corpses of Chao in the Chao gardens if you threw them around like any sadistic child would. You know they just vanish into eggs, and the eggs respawn infinitely. They're fucking digi-pets, retard. And grandpa echidna was literally a warmonger who made his own bed and had to lie in it, and the game doesn't dwell on his death; hell, even his own daughter doesn't mourn him. That's tone at work.
>You do NOT ever see her get shot. Shadow the Hedgehog added that. Her death is implied, nothing else.
I literally said as much, so you obviously can't read. But even implying the cold-blooded murder of an 8-year-old girl is something that gives a game a dark tone, even if you don't see it happen. That girl got shot and the trauma is something that Shadow still deals with. It's a major plot point. Characters react to it with proper gravitas and sorrow. It's dark tone.

Not sure why I'm trying to discuss the nuance of tone with someone who is clearly autistic and cannot grasp it. Tone has nothing to do with WHAT happens. It has to do with how it is depicted, in context, and how the audience is expected to react to it. If you reacted to digi-pets getting deleted with the same level of sorrow as an 8-year-old girl getting the JFK special, you're a fucking sperg/sociopath and I hope your doors are locked from the outside at night.

[Anonymous No.11034472]

>>11023731
>another "why?" thread
Trash.

[Anonymous No.11034476]

>>11034451
they were not right and not wanting to engage with the game because you petulantly want to play as a different character is not a valid complaint. It's just you throwing a tantrum like the kid on the playground who doesn't get to be spider-man.

[Anonymous No.11034524]

>>11034465
>Those deaths including the genocide of an entire tribe of people don't count because... I said so!
>Tikal doesn't mourn him
Oh, I must have imagined all of those "No, no, NO!" and "Why? Why did this have to happen?" lines out of her. She's incredibly distraught about everything that just happened, both Chao and Echidna death alike.

>You know they just vanish into eggs, and the eggs respawn infinitely.
Only happy Chao reincarnate. Unhappy ones are dead forever. Even if this is a part of the game mechanics, you would have to be one hell of a psychopath to claim that a double-sided scene of mass murder while everything is set ablaze isn't incredibly bleak.

>Oh but you can always get another egg!
Cool, go kill a couple of dogs, there will always be more puppies in the world. You fucking maniac.

>But this one offscreen death you don't even see the leadin to, now THAT'S dark! It was a human, after all!
No seriously, you could not make yourself sound any worse.

[Anonymous No.11034579]

>>11034476
>you aren't allowed to want the game to be better
>you aren't allowed to want Sonic gameplay in Sonic
>you should "respect the devs" (unless it's one of the games I don't like, and then the devs are human scum and should be spat on for sullying the franchise.)
Do you see how you're doing the thing again? The Sonic fans are insane thing?

[Anonymous No.11034705]

Where the fuck is Sonic Mania 2
Where the fuck is Sonic Mania 3 & Knuckles
Why must sega crap out new 3d bs every 2 years while the masses wait for more kino

[Anonymous No.11034716]

>>11034705
Corpo retardation insisting what people really want is an in-house developed 2D Sonic with 3D graphics, as opposed to literally Mania 2, like they said they wanted.
Japanese pride, thinking they can do better than the guys who made Mania, instead of immediately hiring them to be the new 2D Sonic guys, and giving them whatever money they need to keep doing it.

[Anonymous No.11034785]

>>11034705
>Where the fuck is Sonic Mania 2
Sonic Team was humiliated by Mania so they barred the team from working on a new game and made Superstars instead, which they touted as "Mania but Good because it doesn't have pixel art" (yes, they really said this)

[Anonymous No.11034924]

>>11034524
We get it. You're stupid and you don't understand the difference between TONE and CONTENT. Even more problematic, you seem to be unable to separate video games from real life. Save your keystrokes before you hurt yourself.

[Anonymous No.11034950]

A lot of what I was referring to when I said SA1 and 2 have a different feel was the aesthetic.
1 is all blue skies, beaches, nature, aquatic ruins, lots of water in general. It's 90's summer Sega aesthetic.
2 in comparison feels darker, colder, more urban, more sci-fi, more miliary. It's the "we saw the Matrix and Akira, and played MGS and FF7" Sonic game, basically.

I'm not just talking about how the plot veered off into unprecedently dark territory, which it did. The US government shooting a child is some nutty shit for a Sonic game, no matter how you justify it.
No, the Dragonball-arc villain Chaos, killing some fantasy creatures in a cutscene is not the same thing. That's still far more fantastical and mythological.

[Anonymous No.11034959]

>>11034924
https://youtu.be/XwtNXo1aQgs?t=6447s
I think I know what tone is, buddy. It's what you set when you have everything set aflame while a girl cries out in anguish over a tragedy she just saw unfold to her family, friends, and innocent Chao.

You have no argument other than one implied offscreen death that isn't even the focus of a cutscene being worse than an entire tribe and several Chao getting murdered with their corpses shown onscreen because... tone?

[Anonymous No.11034964]

>>11034959
Chaos aren't real people, and their feelings don't matter.

[Anonymous No.11034971]

>>11034959
>>11034924
both of you are faggots. shut the fuck up.

[Anonymous No.11036321]

>>11034959
>because... tone?
Yup. That's what tone is. You could make a movie about the holocaust with a light tone. You could make a movie about a girl being nervous about a dance recital with a dark tone. Content isn't tone, and tone isn't content.

You'll learn someday, junior.

[Anonymous No.11036335]

>>11023731
Why didn't you?

[Anonymous No.11036362]

>>11036321
>Lightest tone movie about the Holocaust
>Shows footage of corpses piled up from a concentration camp as a young girl cries about the mass death of her family and friends
>Darkest tone movie about the Holocaust
>Diary of Anne Frank adaptation where her later death is briefly mentioned at the end

[Anonymous No.11036534]

>>11023792
This, Shadow is actually underrated. The only problem with this game is the bullshit progression system

[Anonymous No.11036587]

>>11023731
Doesn't have a stupid caretaker sim for women.

>>11023834
>>11023903
>Sonic Advance 1 and 2 are Adventure 3s

[Anonymous No.11036593]

>>11023856
No it is+you're passively shilling that ugly kickstarted game by those Smashified hacks

[Anonymous No.11036596]

>>11036587
Advance 1 is Sonic 4, or an alternative Sonic 3, at any rate.
Advance actually pushed classic Sonic forward a little by including an extra playable character, instead of regressing it like real (fake) Sonic 4 did.

And then Mania would be Sonic 5, because Advance 2 through Rush Adventure are like a whole other thing.

[Anonymous No.11036601]

>>11023856
No it isn't+you're passively shilling that ugly kickstarter game by those pretentious Smashified hacks.

[Anonymous No.11036603]

>>11025329
>>11036601

[Anonymous No.11036607]

>>11036362
I mean, there have been actual comedies made about Nazi Germany. Not even that rare of a thing. There's The Producers, there's Jojo Rabbit.
The Day the Clown Cried is outright about concentration camps, and was never released because it was considered to be that distasteful.

[Anonymous No.11036654]

>>11036321
>a movie about a girl being nervous about a dance recital with a dark tone
that's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard

[Anonymous No.11036678]

>>11036654
That's Black Swan

[Anonymous No.11036778]

>>11036607
Obviously yes, you can crack plenty of jokes about the darkest of events. The keyword being 'can'.

Sonic Adventure takes the Echidna Tribe flashbacks seriously and does not portray the events lightly whatsoever. That's all that's being argued about here.

[Anonymous No.11036789]

>>11023731
They couldn't get Sonic Adventure to run on the PS2 and they didn't want only SA3 to be the first multiplatform game while its predecessors were both console exclusives so they made Sonic Heroes instead.

[Anonymous No.11036793]

>>11036778
Dark like Bambi's mother dying is dark, maybe. It's still "dark" within the context of a light hearted work.

[Anonymous No.11036801]

>>11036678
what the fuck is black swan

[Anonymous No.11036829]

>>11036801
>Sonic fans knowing nothing about the world outside of Sonic media, as usual
It's a Darren Aronofsky movie, man. It's mainstream cinema. It won a shit tonne of awards.

[Anonymous No.11036983]

>>11036829
I don't believe you. You're literally making shit up to support your retarded argument

[Anonymous No.11037579]

>>11036801
some forced tooleb meme
if you don't know who tooleb is don't ask, you don't want to know

[Anonymous No.11039331]

>>11034950
>2 in comparison feels darker, colder, more urban, more sci-fi, more miliary. It's the "we saw the Matrix and Akira, and played MGS and FF7" Sonic game, basically.
and thats why its based

[Anonymous No.11039964]

>>11026492
>Also, nu-3D Sonic is better
Boring skinner box "games" where you hold X and occasionally press A or the shoulder buttons with awful 2D platforming of a shovelware NES game. They also don't try to be anything more than just cash grabs because Sega knows Sonicfags will still buy them after bitching about how they are "wasted potentials".
>and "fans" have brainrot.
Go back and take your faggot twitter slangs with you.

[Anonymous No.11040151]

>>11034109
wtf is with brazil and the master system, why dont they make games for it at least

[Anonymous No.11040437]

>>11040151
I've only ever seen 1 game that were even remotely worthwhile from Brazil, a Snes style JRPG called Tropicalia. that's it. i don't think brazillians are smart enough or creative enough for game development. As far as i know there's no /vr/ games at all that were made in brazil that aren't really bad bootlegs

[Anonymous No.11040554]

>>11023731
This was Adventure 3.
>multiple playable characters
>overarching story
>final story after finishing with the other characters

[Anonymous No.11040750]

>>11039964
>it bad because it's not exactly the bad game I like!

[Anonymous No.11040910]

>>11023731
You’re over estimating their skills

[Anonymous No.11041079]

>>11040750
>getting this mad that the shit games you like got called out for being shit
lol

[Anonymous No.11041481]

>>11041079
That's Sonic Adventure.

[Anonymous No.11042231]

>>11023731
Because adventure was meh

[Anonymous No.11043825]

>>11023731
>another dumb fucking zoomer garbage thread starting with "Why"

[Anonymous No.11044709]

>>11040151
>>11040437
Brazil's fucking awesome, they're even giving us a SEGA Nepture of all things now.

[Anonymous No.11044801]

Reminder that Yuji Naka for sabotaging the Sonic X-treme team by not letting them use the NiGHTS engine

Reminder that SA1 and SA2 were built to take full advantage of the Dreamcast hardware. The palette-based "Lantern" lighting engine from Sonic Adventure was ahead of its time. Iizuka wanting something transparent and liquid since the technology now allowed it, the team came up with Chaos. They had to drop it to hit SA2 60fps on Dreamcast and SADX 60fps on GC.

Reminder that Sega threw away the Sonic Adventure 1/2 engine made in Sega Katana, an SDK for the Dreamcast and gave us Renderware garbage for Heroes and Shadow because Sony demanded that Sonic has to run on PS2's emotion engine

Reminder that SonicNextGen was built for the Xbox 360, rushed for holiday release, and then SEGA wanted to port it to PS3's CELL and Wii

Reminder that Unleashed and Generations were built exclusively for the Xbox 360 and were kino

Reminder that Sonic 4 and Episode 2 flopped so hard that everyone forgot about it

Reminder that Sega screwed themselves by making 3 mandatory sonic games on the Wii U

Reminder that the developers created Sonic Boom with an engine incompatible with Wii U then botched the port

Reminder that Sonic Mania was made by Sonic fans as a love letter to 90s Sonic that grabs the most fun parts of Sonic's gameplay into his level design, most of the frustrating moments of the original classic games can't be found here, and Sega of Japan hated it and gave us SuperStars

Reminder Sonic Colors Ultimate was outsourced garbage

Reminder vanilla SADX PC and that Sonic modders spent over 10 years fixing the PC port for free

Reminder that Unleashed and Black Knight were the last Sonic games written by Japanese writers

Reminder that Shadow is Iizuka's favorite Sonic Character (to the point where he wears an iced Shadow Medallion) and wanted Sonic X airing next to DBZ

Reminder Ian Flynn only knows how to write overly self-referential stuff

[Anonymous No.11045675]

>>11040554
It controls 10x worse though.

[Anonymous No.11045910]

Unironically what would a SA3 be? As a more casual Sonic fan it seems to me like its already been made multiple times, just under different names

Heroes is a direct sequel, as is Shadow the Hedgehog, the latter arguably moreso since it follows up on plotlines from SA2

>It doesn't have Chao garden

Does that make Sonic Advance an Adventure game?

If you want a similar structure, '06 for better or worse apes it with multiple playable characters, an adventure field and the works

The plotlines in 2 has already been followed up with Heroes and Shadow, the overall structure of the game has been done with '06

>None of those games were called Adventure

Does that make Sonic Rush Adventure part of the SA series?

>But those games were terrible

If thats the case, would you genuinely expect modern Sonic Team to do better if they decided to randomly make a SA3?

[Anonymous No.11045926]

>>11045910
06 is the closest thing we've gotten to what people want out of an Adventure 3. It's made in the same general gameplay style and features a serious story with high stakes split into multiple campaigns with lots of varied styles of character play, though it lacks beloved features like the Chao Garden. And no, the shitty Tiny Chao Garden is NOT what anyone is referring to when they talk about that feature, the entire point was merely to serve as a VMU standin for taking your console Chao on the go.

The issue is, 06 fucking blows and fails to meet the standards the previous Adventure games set, so people prefer to ignore its existence whenever they can.

Heroes has almost nothing to do with the Adventure games other than Shadow being in it. Shadow the Hedgehog is a followup to Adventure 2's plot, but is so far removed in terms of gameplay that no one in their right mind would consider it an Adventure game. Not to mention that again, the plot fucking sucks and is better off ignored because it only serves to make Adventure 2 retroactively stupider.

[Anonymous No.11046223]

>>11045910
the thing is, it hasn't been made multiple times. it hasn't been made since. lesser versions of it has.
Adventure 3 needs three things.
>character selection of more than just 3.
>gameplay variety of more than just 3 different types.
>HUB worlds.
it's no secret how Adventure was made. SEGA waited so long on 3D Sonic, they didn't know what to do with 3D Sonic. that's why Adventure is a little bit of everything. SEGA is going to have to take that kind of risk again and build a Sonic game around varying mechanics and styles.

>buh-buh-but FISHING!!!!
first off, I'm >>11025419.
second, the fishing was included because someone in a room full of SEGA execs said
>quick, what's our best selling games? Sega Bass Fishing? ok, put it in.
I imagine the answer to that question is different these days.
Sonic Team used to be wild. like, including a song about a hedgehog's pubes wild. fat bat tats wild. PSO wild.
they need to be that wild again, but as I think someone said ITT, that Sonic Team died with the Dreamcast.

[Anonymous No.11046371]

>>11046223
yeah moar fat tats and sonics gonna be popular again

[Anonymous No.11046386]

>>11046223
The problem with the fishing is it's boring. Not that it's hard.

[Anonymous No.11046431]

>>11046371
unironically yes

>>11046386
it's over with too quickly, and too different from the other gameplay types to be boring.

[Anonymous No.11047041]

>>11046431
they should finally release officially licensed sonic porn games. theres a shitton of money to be made with this. just imagine the endless possibilities: rouge being gangbanged by a bunch of GUN soldiers for a chaos emerald. knuckles, sonic, tails tagteaming amy. but there could also be gay scenes with shadow, silver and sonic. there are so many scenarios which would make fans happy.

[Anonymous No.11047047]

>>11046223
>>HUB worlds.
SA2 had that?

[Anonymous No.11047054]

>>11047041
definitely

[Anonymous No.11047058]

>>11047047
>it hasn't been made since. lesser versions of it has.

[Anonymous No.11047348]

>>11046223
>including a song about a hedgehog's pubes
What?!

[Anonymous No.11047508]

>>11047348
listen to My Sweet Passion.

[Anonymous No.11047649]

>>11047058
By that logic, wouldn't Adventure 2 not be a "true" Adventure 2?

[Anonymous No.11047756]

>>11047649
I certainly like 1 more and think it's the better game, but I don't hate 2.
streamlining things made it feel like less of a game compared to 1.

[Anonymous No.11048435]

>>11047756
Weird logic, that focusing on gameplay first made it less of a game

[Anonymous No.11048446]

>>11048435
but it weakened the gameplay. the two sides are just copies of each other, mechanically, instead of varied types. Sonic is Shadow, Knuckles is Rouge, Tails is Eggman. whereas in SA1 Sonic is your basic gameplay, Tails is your time-attack, Knuckles is your exploration, Amy is about escaping a pursuer, Gamma is a shooting score attack, and Big... well, we've discussed Big.

[Anonymous No.11049434]

>>11048446
Picking three gameplay types and tightening them up > six where multiple aren’t fleshed out at all
Tails, Knuckles, and Gamma stages in SA1 might as well not even be there. As soon as the stages get longer (their final stages), their story is already over.

[Anonymous No.11049472]

>>11023731
Genuinely have no idea and to this day, despite the game being a pretty rocky 7/10, it's maybe one of my most disliked/disappointing games of all time

[Anonymous No.11049498]

>>11049434
but not Amy? that's an odd exclusion given your opinions. is it just the time-attack and score-attack modes you have issue with.
Knuckles is how you get a chance to look all around the levels with no time limit. maybe you just don't like exploring?

[Anonymous No.11049525]

>>11049472
I'm with you there. I don't mind Sonic Heroes, it's a 7/10 in my book too, maybe 7.5. At the same, I fucking hate it.

>>11049498
She only has three stages, but they're quite long. They aren't over in a single jump like Tails Windy Valley.

Knuckles levels are simply better in SA2. Exploring means nothing when there's nothing to see.

[Anonymous No.11049532]

>>11023731
sonic KINOES is a great game

[3D Sonic Connoisseur No.11049545]

>>11023731
Sonic '06 and Unleashed pretty much count as Sonic Adventure 3, if you think of it. The only thing they lacked was a Chao garden.

[Anonymous No.11049573]

>>11049525
the whole point of Tails is doing his stages quickly. that's what a time-attack is about, anon.
does this mean you prefer longer stages to shorter ones? you've brought them up in a positive context twice now.
also, not sure what you mean about Knuckle's stages. there's literally as many set pieces to look at as in his SA2 stages, along with identical gameplay. nothing changed, mechanically.
Sonic Team endeavored to have each character in SA1 fulfill a role and represent a different gameplay style. they didn't try as hard for SA2. they tried even less for Sonic Heroes.

[Anonymous No.11049596]

>>11049573
>the whole point of Tails is doing his stages quickly
If he has five stages and they can be over in less than a minute, he has less than five minutes of content.
>nothing changed, mechanically.
SA2 uses hints to guide you toward the area an emerald piece is in. Exploration yields a concrete reward, in that if a hint says for instance, "beneath the three blinking blue lights", you can remember where you saw that. And this is necessary, as the stages are far bigger. Exploration is actually essential for doing well.
SA1 Knuckles is just put in a part of a Sonic level, and you go and grab the three pieces after Tikal shows you exactly where they are. Over in 30 seconds a piece.

>does this mean you prefer longer stages to shorter ones? you've brought them up in a positive context twice now.
If you're going to go to all the trouble of adding alternate characters, they need something to do. Yeah, Gamma is really fun to play as... in Hot Shelter, his only stage with any length or complexity. Yeah, Tails having his own playstyle is cool... for the few minutes it lasts.

[Anonymous No.11049634]

>>11047041
>they should finally release officially licensed sonic porn
Be careful what you wish for
>>>/co/144248125

[Anonymous No.11049640]

>>11049634
please don't bring that garbage here

[Anonymous No.11049642]

>>11049596
>SA2 uses hints to guide you toward the area an emerald piece is in.
so does SA1, and i see your already know this as you bring up Tikal's hints a few sentences later. her hint orb zooms off too fast and also clips through objects so chances of her showing you the exact location are slim. they give you a general direction. which is better, a general direction (SA1) or a general description (SA2)? it comes down to personal preference.
>Exploration yields a concrete reward
the exact same rewards as SA1. animals for chao, rings and the Emerald pieces.
you're right the stages are a bit bigger in SA2.

>If you're going to go to all the trouble of adding alternate characters, they need something to do.
agreed, half of SA2's cast is unnecessary. so, taking them away, exactly how much playtime is left?

[Anonymous No.11049647]

>>11049634

[Anonymous No.11049653]

>>11049634
why doesn't SEGA just sue the fatass to oblivion?
Apparently his contract, that was lost in a building fire, was archived and found recently. Where's the action?

[Anonymous No.11049669]

>>11049642
Exploring gives you knowledge of the stage. Which you need, as the hints describe elements of the stage. Tikal just points you where to look. These are not the same.

>half of SA2’s cast is unnecessary
Psychotic take. The point is to get all three playstyles in for both Hero and Dark.

>>11049653
Really no point is there? Not like Sega wants to use anything Archie, or ever reference Chronicles again.

[Anonymous No.11049672]

Never goon.

[Anonymous No.11049673]

>>11023731
From Sonic 1 to SA2, the games had slowly escalated in scope, stakes, and drama. SA2 was treated as possibly the last Sonic game, by the developers. In turn it's an incredibly climactic game, that ends with a satisfying enough conclusion that fans, while upset, would have ultimately accepted it as the finale, had SEGA not kept making them.
It's like how Nintendo drastically reduced the scope and sort of reset everything, going from Galaxy to Odyssey, too. When you make a "grand finale" tier game, and then the suits say to make another, the only direction you really can go is back to basics.

And I think Heroes gets a worse rap than it deserves. Yes it controls like ass compared to SA2, but thematically and aesthetically it's also the game that actually brings the 2D games aesthetics into 3D the best, even compared to the higher fidelity later games. Heroes is unmistakably "classic Sonic in 3D" even to normies with barely any knowledge of the series if you just show them pictures comparing the 3D outings.

[Anonymous No.11049703]

>>11049669
>Exploring gives you knowledge of the stage.
but the radar has a much wider range in SA1. exploring helps you find their location.

>The point is
that you get the SAME playstyles, twice, instead of variation.

[Anonymous No.11050282]

>>11049573
>Sonic Team endeavored to have each character in SA1 fulfill a role and represent a different gameplay style. they didn't try as hard for SA2.
The fuck are you talking about? The three types of character play far more diversely in Adventure 2 than they did in 1, and their stages are way more specialized for their gameplay styles too. While everyone will scream about Gamma VS the SA2 Mechs, one cannot deny that the mech stages are far more different to play and engage with than Gamma running through reused stages with Sonic's speed but you spam shots at everything. Same with Knuckles getting a playpen-sized area of a Sonic stage and finding all the emeralds in 2 seconds versus being sent into a huge labyrinth to explore.

[Anonymous No.11050310]

>>11049672
always goon

[Anonymous No.11050405]

>>11049703
Kek you’re just missing the point entirely, what even is this argument? The radar can pick up the emeralds from further away, so you need to explore MORE?

>>11050282
This anon gets it.

[Anonymous No.11050464]

>>11050282
>The three types of character play far more diversely in Adventure 2
lol
they're carbon copies of one another. they play exactly the same as their counterparts. what, were you impressed that they gave their powerups, which function exactly the same between types, different names or some shit?
SA2 you get 3 playstyles. SA1 you get six.

the reason those mech stages are so "different to engage with" are because of all the instadeath pits.

>reused stages
as if SA2 doesn't reuse layouts and assets across multiple stages lol
Sand Ocean is Hidden Base except it's night. Radical Highway uses the exact same assets and lighting as Mission Street. White Jungle is Green Forest except it's raining and foggy. and on and on

[Anonymous No.11050480]

>>11050405
lawl basic differences are sailing over your head.

>what even is this argument?
you're some kid upset that i don't suck the dick of your favorite Gamecube game is what this argument is.

[Anonymous No.11050482]

>>11023731
Everyone with talent at sonic team committed seppuku when the dreamcast died. People will deny this but this is the truth.

[Anonymous No.11050498]

>>11050464
> SA2 you get 3 playstyles. SA1 you get six.
3 good, fleshed out playstyles > 6 shoddy playstyles
>all those stage comparisons
You think Radical Highway and Mission Street use the same level design? Lol

>>11050480
Nah I kinda think you’re just an imbecile

[Anonymous No.11050504]

>>11032451
I remember the reception being lukewarm at best even among the big sites, not just the fans.

[Anonymous No.11050514]

>>11050464
>more is better
If you think Tails, Amy, and Big’s stages are points in favor of SA1, you’re deluded.

[Anonymous No.11050521]

>>11050498
6 distinct playstyles > 3 identical ones stretched out for a whole game because they couldn't come up with anything else.

>the same level design?
is that what assets and lighting mean?
reused playstyles, reused assets, SA2 is all about spreading as little as possible as thinly as Sonic Team could manage.

thanks for the input, kid!

[Anonymous No.11050528]

>>11050514
>Tails
you had never even heard of the term "time-attack" until this thread, i bet

>Amy
this anon seems to be fine with her >>11049525

>Big
i don't have any hatred for Sega Bass Fishing, anon. have you ever played one? they used to be pretty popular!

[Anonymous No.11050538]

>>11050521
>is that what assets and lighting mean?
Uhhh you said SA2 reuses level layouts and brought that up, smart guy

[Anonymous No.11050541]

>>11050528
Are you saying that one of Sonic Adventure 2’s flaws is that it doesn’t have Big fishing in it?

[Anonymous No.11050563]

>>11050464
>SA2 you get 3 playstyles. SA1 you get six.
As >>11050498 notes, those three playstyles are far more diverse compared to what Adventure 1 offers. The most distinct playstyles in 1 are Amy and Big, and while Amy's stages are actually pretty okay and well executed enough for what they are, Big is loathed and hated for good reason.

Gamma is Sonic with a gun and plays himself so hard that they had to make the stages timed in an attempt to have something resembling a challenge, Tails is Sonic except you can cheat. Knuckles is trying to be different but the stages are all very tiny and over in an instant.

[Anonymous No.11050603]

>>11050538
because it does.

>>11050541
are you saying that one of Sonic Adventure 1's flaws is that it does? if yes, then read the post again for my rebuttal!

[Anonymous No.11050614]

>>11050563
>those three playstyles are far more diverse
repeating it will not make it true, anon. not only are they identical playstyles, they are derivative of 3 playstyles we already had in the previous game.
>Big is loathed and hated for good reason
i disagree. i'm not a Big stan but i do not hate him with the fervor others seem to.

[Anonymous No.11050617]

>>11050603
Except it doesn’t, disingenuous goofball

[Anonymous No.11050621]

>>11050617
so you can totally tell me which stage is which in the shot of those maps, right?
they're all so distinct, it should be easy!

[Anonymous No.11050632]

>>11050621
Egg Quarters and Death Chamber.

[Anonymous No.11050635]

>>11050614
big's main issues are
>lives in the fucking jungle and has slow movespeed, meaning bunch of filler walking
>people don't know how to fish, meaning they got cucked out of the true story by retard duke nukem
>is completely out of left field in a game about run n jumpin and only exists to shill dreamcast fishing games
And more or less IS a detriment to the game
But the levels themselves, assuming you read the tutorial, are SO fucking quick you literally can't hate them though. So unless you're hung up on childhood trauma or too retarded to read you'll at most think >that was a weird 15 minutes
If anything I honestly wanted a little fishing log to keep track of the fish, their names, a little info blurb, and record weights to add some replay value, maybe even have them spawn around big's hut like a collection
But I am a massive cock gargling faggot who loves fishing minigames so ignore that part

[Anonymous No.11050654]

>>11050632
top is Egg Quarters and bottom is Death Chamber? is that your final answer? because you're wrong!

>>11050635
>slow movespeed
Amy also has a slower movespeed than the other characters and you said she was fine. the most walking you'll have to do with Big is in Hot Shelter anyway.
>people don't know how to read instructions
that seems more their fault than Big's, imo. i see you agree with me a few sentences later too!
>only exists because SEGA didn't know what to do with 3D Sonic and so threw everything at the wall
yeah, that's what i said in an earlier post.

it seems your issue is that his fishing was not MORE fleshed out, not that it was included. so, then, can you really say he's "loathed and hated" for good reason?

[Anonymous No.11050669]

>>11050654
>you said she was fine
I said nothing, this is my first post commenting on big or similar
my personal taste aside no, there's no GOOD reason, as you either played it as a kid and should have not let a retarded obese sonic cat live rent free in your head for 25 years, or you played it now and google would have saved your dumb ass from getting stuck, but when the meme starded in the mid-2000s it was more understandable

[Anonymous No.11050670]

>>11050654
No, I’m not.

[Anonymous No.11050685]

>>11050669
the meme is the only thing fueling it, i say.

[Anonymous No.11050703]

>>11050614
They play nothing alike in 2
>Sonic/Shadow
They can’t just rush through the level for most A-ranks, you need to engage with stage gimmicks and destroy enemies efficiently. You can’t just spam X/B and pass all the enemies by. The light speed dash works without charging and can be actually be reliably used in each level.
>Tails/Eggman
Akin to classic Sonic gameplay in fact, they’re slow to accelerate but have decent top speed. The goal is to route your way through the level, keeping your speed up and gunning down enemies efficiently for the A rank.
>Knuckles/Rouge
You need to learn the stage in and out, learn how to traverse quickly in each direction to check every spots with as few hints as you can.

As opposed to
>Sonic
Eh just ignore the enemies, go ahead and skip half the level. Whatever
>Knuckles
Grab the three emerald pieces that are right next to you. Not easy enough? We’ll show you exactly where it is.
>Gamma
Make sure to get more time by locking into- never mind, stage is over.

[Anonymous No.11050819]

>>11050703
the types play identical to each other in 2.
they have the same movesets, the same powerups and deal with obstacles in the same manners.
anon, you absolutely can still ignore enemies as Sonic, as evidenced by looking up any speedrun on YT. which of Knuckles SA1 stages has emerald points "right next" to him? we've already discussed how Tikal won't show you exactly where they are unless they're close by enough that you don't lose her when she starts clipping through solid objects.
the only reason the mech stages are longer in 2 is because there's 5x as many death pits to avoid.

also, re: everyone complaining about short stages.
if the stages are so short, why are the WR runs for SA1 twice as long as 2?

[Anonymous No.11050846]

>>11050819
>if the stages are so short, why are the WR runs for SA1 twice as long as 2?
Lol because you can't skip cutscenes on Dreamcast
When you look at SADX, it's still 8 minutes longer. The adventure fields and doing Sky Chase twice make up the gap.

The WR for Sonic's story in SADX is 28m 36s. But then, the stages that are too fucking short are the others.
>Tails: 17m 32s
>Knuckles: 10m 10s
>Amy: 8m 44s
>Big: 6m 13s
>Gamma: 9m 33s
lol

>anon, you absolutely can still ignore enemies as Sonic, as evidenced by looking up any speedrun on YT
Speedruns are about beating the game fast, not getting all A ranks. And regarding that, the WR for getting all emblems in SADX is 4h 15m, for SA2 it's 7h 19m.

[Anonymous No.11050857]

It's time to empty your guts! Shitty the Fuckhog is back - and he's stinkier than ever before! Fart your way through 11 brand new levels, filled to the brim with greasy feces. But be careful, Doktor Robotnik is at it again and he's not wearing diapers! Counter his attacks with your own disgustingly smelly flatulence. Get Shitty the Fuckhog 2 and experience what real BLAST PROCESSING means!

[Anonymous No.11050867]

>>11050857
have tacos
go into bed
room fills with gas
>blast processing

[Anonymous No.11050870]

>>11050857
>>11050867
quality posts

[Anonymous No.11050883]

>>11050846
>Speedruns are about beating the game fast, not getting all A ranks.
you're right, you can't ignore enemies and skip half the levels to get an A Rank in SA2. you'll only get a B rank instead lol

taking a look at All Story runs for DX and 2B, DX still has the longer playtimes.
100%ing 2B does take longer but it also has 180 Emblems, not 130. and 12 of those 130 you can go collect right away as they're hidden in the Adventure Fields.

[Anonymous No.11050887]

>>11023829
Anon, that makes it more like Adventures then anything

[Anonymous No.11050918]

>>11050846
>>11050883
also, i'll admit i've never tried to 100% SA2 so i had to look some things up.
gee, i wonder why the game that makes you replay a level 5 times to get all the emblems takes longer to finish than the one that only makes you play replay a level 3??? real mystery lmao

[Anonymous No.11050919]

>>11050883
Perks of sitting through Sky Chase four times, fighting Chaos 4 and 6 three times each, and needing to trod through the adventure fields across 7 stories, yep. Also I note that SADX is longer by 5 minutes.

[Anonymous No.11050928]

>>11050918
>also, i'll admit i've never tried to 100% SA2 so i had to look some things up.
You should have just led with that anon. You should give it a go. I used to prefer SA1 too.

[Anonymous No.11050935]

>>11050919
so how do you feel about having to play through the barebones kart racing 8 times?

[Anonymous No.11050939]

>>11050935
When I said sitting through Sky Chase, I meant they literally just park the Tornado in the corner of the screen and wait
>8 times
?

[Anonymous No.11050940]

>>11050928
nah, i didn't back then because i wasn't interested and that hasn't really changed. the only reason i even bought SA2 was Rouge's tits. otherwise it would have been a rental.

[Anonymous No.11050942]

>>11050939
oops, i guess it's only 6 times!

[Anonymous No.11050951]

>>11050942
>6 times
??
You play it twice in the story. So that's 2.
If you're going for all A ranks, that's 10.
Plus you need the emblems from the kart racing mod, so 13 total.

Where do you get 8 or 6 from though?

[Anonymous No.11050986]

>>11050940
>play SA2 as a kid
>have fetish for skin tight bodysuits, thigh high boots, and long gloves
>also furry tits
one of the lesser dark paths a sonic fan can take I suppose, but those japs still have a lot to answer for

[Anonymous No.11051012]

>>11050951
>it's actually 13
wow, i guess i was giving SA2 too much credit.
and people are complaining about the tornado segments in SA1? lol, lmao even

gee, guys, it's seeming more and more like the only reason SA2's 100% playtime is so high is because Sonic Team makes you replay the levels so many times!

[Anonymous No.11051019]

>>11051012
At least you play the kart racing stages lol

[Anonymous No.11051024]

>>11051019
hard to destroy the egg carrier from the corner of the screen, anon

[Anonymous No.11051027]

>>11050310
NEVER GOON

[Anonymous No.11051048]

>>11051024

[Anonymous No.11051054]

>>11051048
you're right, i would much rather play a shitty kart racer 13 times lmao

[Anonymous No.11051057]

>>11051054
The boss literally just defeats itself LOL

[Anonymous No.11051068]

>>11051057
even SA1 did carts better.
is there anything SA2 DIDN'T lift directly from 1?

[Anonymous No.11051073]

>>11051068
>lauding Twinkle Circuit
Embarrassing

[Anonymous No.11051082]

>>11051073
oh, anon, they're both just a retread of OutRun.

[Anonymous No.11051107]

>>11051027
Why the hell did they portray him in this position so often? I know he's supposed to cross his arms, but effectively he's just putting one arm over the other. It's really weird.

[Anonymous No.11051216]

>>11050940

[Anonymous No.11051218]

>>11051082
whoa watch your fucking mouth, Outrun is actually good

[Anonymous No.11051221]

>>11051218
i would definitely rather play it 13 times, for sure.

[Anonymous No.11052681]

>>11050940
>>11050986
>>11051216
Amy's superior.

[Anonymous No.11053081]

>>11052681
true but I have busted plenty of nuts to both

[Anonymous No.11053112]

>>11053081
Same.

Oh, and don't forget Vanilla.

[Anonymous No.11054863]

>>11023731
lacked the staff for it

[Anonymous No.11055828]

>>11023731
WHAT GOES UP MUST COME DOWN