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/vr/ - Retro Games


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File: 249 KB, 10000x1520, Mario_vs_Sonic.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11010612 No.11010612 [Reply] [Original]

Revolutionary is a term overused these days that conveys an internal emotion difficult to explain in objective terms. However, we can all agree that, in this occasion, Sonic the Hedgehog was truly revolutionary. SMB 1 through 3 give players a very linear and small map to conquer. Meanwhile, Sonic's first level offers you a whole world to explore.
I can see why so many people got fixated into this. Sonic wasn't ahead of its time, we haven't yet seen another instance of an open and consistent world full of life.

>> No.11010643
File: 136 KB, 768x1164, crash-bandicoot-nsane-trilogy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11010643

>>11010612
Crash Bandicoot is revolutionary. It's got THREE dimensions. An entire dimension more than Sonic.

>> No.11010649

>>11010612
But none of it matters. You take one path, and you beat it, and unless there's some advantage to taking another path there's no reason to care about it. Sonic's levels aren't that much more interesting for having multiple paths because they don't do much with that.

>> No.11010693

>>11010649
Exploration is good for its own shake, you can evaluate sonic under mario's lenses. Still, with several branches, it incentivizes replayability.

>> No.11010695

>>11010649
Sonic 1 doesn't do that much with it, but the later Sonic games absolutely do. Sonic 2 made it the series custom to have higher routes be filled with less speedbumps and thus faster, but to easy fall out of and be put back on the slower and arguably harder path with a single mistake. Further mistakes punish you more, not with bottomless pits but with more frustrating level layouts.

Not to mention secret routes like the one in Chemical Plant that gets you past the infamous water section and right to the boss.

To say nothing of Sonic 3 & Knuckles where entire gimmicks can be almost completely glossed over if you play well enough, and the special stages being hidden all over the levels in clever areas.

>> No.11010698

I get the impression Sonic's designers sucked at platformers. They made a game where it's almost impossible to die with so few bottomless pits and effectively infinite health so long as you can collect one ring.

>> No.11010705

>>11010612
>SMB 1 through 3 give players a very linear and small map to conquer.

That's incorrect though. And if you want to talk about "a whole world to conquer", Sonic's level design is nothing compared to what was being done on computers like the Commander Keen series

>> No.11010706

>>11010698
>Mariocentric post detected.

>> No.11010709
File: 9 KB, 1856x272, Ck1lv01.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11010709

>>11010705
Mario tier

>> No.11010718

>>11010709
>higher route while also having a death pit
Sonic btfo.

>> No.11010719

>>11010698
Oftentimes the intended challenge was less about dying outright and more about completing stages effectively and quickly. You have to be a lot better at Sonic and know its mechanics well to get through stages in a brisk and effective manner compared to beating most Mario stages. But it's easier to die outright in Mario compared to Sonic. It's simply a different approach to difficulty.

>> No.11010732
File: 44 KB, 1600x848, quality level design.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11010732

>>11010709

>> No.11010735

>>11010649
>But none of it matters. You take one path, and you beat it
Your lack of curiosity is showing
>unless there's some advantage to taking another path there's no reason to care about it.
You can find faster paths to complete the level which is the main thing, but you can also find and get items

>> No.11010748

Sonics speed would benefit more with linear Mario stages and Marios platformer focus would benefit more from Sonics multi tiered zones.

>> No.11010759

>>11010719
>>11010735
The excuses SEGA/Sonicfags give for these things are always funny. I like exploring games, where there's interesting stuff to explore.

>>11010643
Compared to Sonic, genuinely yes. Not because it's 3D, but because the designers of Sonic's Ass went "hey, you know, we should put stuff inside these levels to interact with", and so they came up with crates. Then they went "hey, what if we rewarded the player for collecting all the crates in a level", hence giving you a reason to explore and master what you can do in each level.

>> No.11010789

>>11010649
>But none of it matters. You take one path, and you beat it,
This coming from the fanbase that shames you for not liking Mario 64 or Zelda TikTok if you play it in a conventional way instead of the obtuse overthinking way.

>> No.11010826

>mario influenced every japanese developer ever to make good platformers (including sonic)
>sonic influenced every western developer ever to make really bad mascot platformers
Some revolution.

>> No.11010837
File: 6 KB, 245x245, 1704186376488919.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11010837

>>11010612
Why are sonicfags such insufferable assholes?

>> No.11010841

2D Sonic is better, get over it nintenfaggots.

>> No.11010843
File: 64 KB, 932x557, brands into religions.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11010843

>>11010837
Sega marketing

>> No.11010845
File: 111 KB, 640x876, tumblr_pk3nn6nCT71vujrhgo1_640.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11010845

>>11010837
You have a micro level, get over it.

>> No.11010889

>>11010837
How come? I often see Sonic fans mostly taking shit from everyone else on here than the other way around, we have a "Sonic was never good" thread every week at this point, out of all those major iconic franchises from the 90's it's Sonic that gets the most shit in here by far, Mario and Zelda too, especially Zelda, but often those are jokes most don't take seriously, and that's all.

>> No.11012303
File: 1.72 MB, 4481x1024, s1-sbz-act1map.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11012303

Sonic stage design is leagues ahead of most other platformers', true.

>> No.11012693

>>11010612
>a whole world to explore
Metroid?

>> No.11012794

>>11010612
If Sonic levels didn't have multiple paths his games would feel like a scam since they also have 1/10 the levels of Mario (or the average platformer really).

>> No.11012839

>>11012303
I like looking at the levels and getting lost, there are so much details

>> No.11012881
File: 80 KB, 4608x1088, JetSetWilly1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11012881

>>11010612
Jet Set Willy already gave you a whole world to explore in 1984, Sonic the Hedgehog is mediocre in willyvania terms.

>> No.11013154

>>11010612
Sonic's music is better than Mario's

>> No.11013354

>>11012881
You know, worlds have trees and grass and sun and sky. This looks more like hell willy enjoyed.

>> No.11013448
File: 101 KB, 612x872, Jetsetwillyadvert.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11013448

>>11013354
>willy enjoyed
I don't think he was supposed to be enjoying anything that was going on in that game.
Also look closer, there are grass and water and a giant tree in there, as well as a literal Hell, AND the gastrointestinal tract of an elephant because why not.

>> No.11013664

>>11010612
Yes, my parents also thought it was "revolutionary" when I would draw a picture that was a series of squiggly lines in various colors as a child.

And that's all Sonic levels are. A bunch of squiggles and loops without purpose except to have more "stuff"

>> No.11015484

>>11013664
Thanks for the inane comment and reddit spacing.

>> No.11015528

>>11010845
What the fuck is the poetry bullshit? Mario would never have something so lame on its cover.

>> No.11015556

>>11013448
>Perils
Looked like penis til I zoomed in (I'm on phone)

>> No.11015572

>>11010698
Every Sonicfag I know got btfo when they tried the classic Mario games and blamed the game design for it so I think you’re on to something.

>> No.11015596

>1991 game is the first game that offered "a whole world to explore"
My man, you need to stop only playing Sonic games, and only comparing them to Mario.

>> No.11015604

>>11015528
Sonic is for the thinking patrician.

>> No.11015606

>>11015528
The sun is laughing at you. Good going.

>> No.11015816

>>11015596
This but the opposite

>> No.11015820

>>11015816
Meant to>>11015572

>> No.11015883

>>11015572
It's exactly the opposite though, Mariofags rage about how there's no time to react in Sonic, after they get a game over to a motobug.

>> No.11015901

>>11015816
>>11015883
Nobody gets btfo in Sonic games, the fact that you only need a single ring to never die and stages are absolutely full of them makes the series extremely easy. Enemies being placed in stupid locations is annoying but it doesn't filter them.

>> No.11015909

>>11015901
>Nobody gets btfo in Sonic games
https://youtu.be/WYDsz1NFBJw?si=n_5uJG6M5C3yf0zu

>> No.11016819

>>11015909
>Journo gets btfo in shootan game, says it's bad
>Everyone rightfully realizes they're wrong and suck at vidya, opinion is discarded and the journo becomes a meme
>Some RLM dudes get btfo in funny hedgehog game, says it's bad
>Everyone suddenly rethinks opinion on sonic

>> No.11017023

>>11010612
Newer game is bigger and fancier than the older game that they were free to study. This isn't news.

>> No.11017110

>>11016819
You'll notice that whenever you see someone who thinks the Genesis Sonic games are bad actually play them, they'll constantly be at 1 ring and running into every single spike, enemy, speed trap, you name it. They'll be on the bottom path the whole way through suffering and game over partway through Sonic 2 or something and then do anything other than admit how fucking terrible they are at the game.

>> No.11017214

wait a early video game released six years after another is larger??? what???

>> No.11017264

>>11017214
Newer Marios are always the same though. Besides you are conveniently forgetting that exploration is actually cool in sonic.

>> No.11017289

>>11013448
Flesh covered toilet makes it look like some croenberg body horror

>> No.11017462

>>11017110
And? The fact that they can play through the game like that shows why it's bad.

>> No.11017704

>>11017462
>Person struggles until they game over midway through
That's how basically anyone playing a game poorly has things go though? You can bruteforce Sonic 3 & Knuckles entirely because it has a save system, but that applies to any game with saves as well for obvious reasons. I can guarantee no one that's genuinely bad at Sonic 2 for instance has ever made it through Metropolis, and that's if they managed to make it to or through Oil Ocean at all.