/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.11003794]

In the end, you CANT deny he absolutely won.

[Anonymous No.11003797]

Failed to destroy Rock
Failed to defeat Light
Failed to destroy X
Failed to conquer the world
His creations were all destroyed (X just chose to retire permanently)

[Anonymous No.11003806]

>his space aids robot actually saves the world because he can't code properly
just because light lost doesn't mean he won. so it's a tie

[Anonymous No.11004135]

>"my final creation lasted longer than yours, I win, ahahaha!!"
>ignoring that his record is 1 W : 99,999 L, because every single creation of his other than Zero was beaten by either Mega Man or X

[Anonymous No.11004206]

Yeah I guess. Zero was able to save humanity by going maverick and killing a human in the end.

Pretty sure all reploids are based off of X though right? Wouldn't that mean that Light's legacy was far more relevant considering reploids and neo arcadia itself being the result of his work

[Anonymous No.11004209]

The final battle in Megaman Zero 4 would probably have been better if Dr. Weil was replaced by Dr. Wily. I'm still kind of mad they never did anything with that weird Wily subplot across the X games.

[Anonymous No.11004235]

>>11004209
Retarded idea on par with Zero killing the classic cast

[Anonymous No.11004242]

>>11004235
You're retarded and probably a faggot as well.

[Anonymous No.11004248]

>>11004242
>dude it would have been so cool if Zero's creator was resurrected hundreds of years after death and tried to end the world!!
lol fuck you asshole, go shove a Z-saber up your ass

[Anonymous No.11004252]

>>11004248
Not that guy but Wily surviving was teased pretty heavily in the X series. It just never went anywhere. I would not be surprised if Weil was originally supposed to be Wily in some early version of the script.

But yeah there were references that Wily turned himself into a robot or downloaded his memories into one.

[Anonymous No.11004254]

>>11004248
Yeah it WOULD have been cool. Omega being a "refined" version of Zero would have worked just as well if not better. Go fuck yourself.

[Anonymous No.11004256]

>>11004254
No, it would have been colossally faggy. Grow up.

[Anonymous No.11004262]

>>11004256
It's a game series for children lmao. Take your meds,

[Anonymous No.11004541]

>>11004256
>No, it would have been colossally faggy
well you would be the expert on things that are colossally faggy

[Anonymous No.11004852]

>>11004235
Random scientist that is Wily anyway, just not in name, is an even more retarded way they went about it.

[Anonymous No.11004854]

>>11004256
Detail why or lick your taint.

[Anonymous No.11005050]

>>11003794
Well yeah, he won in 1945, Mega Man is just seething fanfiction.

[Anonymous No.11005182]

>>11003794
>he absolutely won
De he bang Roll or Tronne Bonne? If not, then no, he didn't.

[Anonymous No.11005195]

>>11003794
Humanity was destroyed permanently by the lineage of Dr Light’s technology, so I would say Wily (who sought to rule the world) absolutely lost.

[Anonymous No.11005208]

>>11004209
Yes it should have just fucking been Wily. Zero games have an awful plot.

[Anonymous No.11005210]

>>11005182
We’re all losers then because they are virgins.

[Anonymous No.11005239]

>>11004854
I think I already did but ok
>classic series, Wily wants to best Light so badly that he starts work on a new robot, Zero, but isn't able to finish it before he passes
>Wily, in some sort of digital state, lives on in X2 and X5 - notably, he's only trying to get Zero back to his original state, to destroy X and prove himself better; he doesn't care for conquering the world at all anymore
>in X6, Zero returns despite getting maimed in X5, and returns to the side of good by his own will - Wily, inhabiting Isoc's body, finally gives his tacit approval, urging Zero to go on and telling him he's the strongest robot
>despite spending almost his entire story being a villain, Wily's greatest legacy is a robot of his that was able to choose to be a hero and save the world - exactly what Wily wanted in his academic days

Oh wait, scratch that last one
>instead Wily comes back to life hundreds of years after death as a psychotic lunatic who has killed more people than anyone else in human history
>Omega is no longer a powerful robot built using Zero's original body as a blueprint, thus making Zero's mere existence a danger to the world, but just another Zero built by Wily
>Wily is now an omnicidal lunatic who doesn't care about beating Light (X doesn't even exist anymore) but just wants people and reploids to suffer
>his greatest legacy now is him trying to destroy the Earth while his faulty creation stops him

The story is less interesting and less meaningful if Wily replaces Weil. The only reason threads like this or "if you think about it, Wily was the good guy" can exist is because Wily DIDN'T turn into an omnicidal maniac who just wanted to kill everyone, and the people wishing he replaced Weil are fucking stupid.

[Anonymous No.11005284]

>>11005239
Remember when zero went into the pod in x5 ending and then rmz came out and that part of the plot made sense for a couple months until x6 came out

[Anonymous No.11005291]

>>11005239
MMZ's plot is pretty garbage overall.

[Anonymous No.11005308]

>>11005284
>Remember when zero went into the pod in x5 ending
I don't.
Zero dies in all endings of X5.
It's in X6 that he goes into a pod.

[Anonymous No.11005334]

I don't care, I just want to fight a bunch of robots, what the fuck were they thinking putting all that retard storyshit in X4 onward?

[Anonymous No.11005375]

>>11005334
X4 is the best game in the series because it actually has a half-decent story. Obviously that was a fluke, but still.

[Anonymous No.11005376]

>>11005334
They were thinking that kids from 10-15 love that shit (they were right).

[Anonymous No.11005660]

>>11005334
>not enjoying the most kino story telling the series has ever offered
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPlTvJZG2J8

[Anonymous No.11005843]

>>11005239
>instead Wily comes back to life hundreds of years after
He appears to be a 'carbon' in Legends but seems to be happily retired.

[Anonymous No.11005853]

>>11005334
Because it's cool. It keeps people talking about the games long after all gameplay discussion has been exhausted, and may even get people excited to play the games again.
Look at this thread >>10977361 and accept that a cool story in a videogame is paramount.

[Anonymous No.11005856]

>>11003794
In the end of what?

[Anonymous No.11006242]

Networking > robots

[Anonymous No.11006246]

>>11005856
IT DOESN'T EVEN MATTER

[Anonymous No.11006294]

>Manages to build a robot with human-level intellect and decisionmaking by sheer accident, implied to have created this reploid before Light finishes X
>Said reploid is so advanced it becomes the only SA ranked hunter in an organization built to hunt advanced reploids a full century later despite being a hundred years outdated compared to his peers
>Stays cutting-edge well into the Zero series, effortlessly fighting one-on-one against reploid who at this point have literal centuries of advancements in technology compared to himself
>Said reploid also saves humanity and and outlives his rivals greatest creation
>Genuinely believes in the potential of robots as a means of achieving that which humanity may not and advocates for embracing their potential rather than stifling it
>Owns castles around the entire world, with locations including the fucking moon and the center of the earth
>Possesses incredible determination and an unbreakable iron will; No matter how may times he loses, he gets right back up and comes back stronger, never once bitching about it; Genuinely a great inspiration for everyone across all walks of life
>All of this motivated by his belief in meritocracy; he simply knows he is better than Light and wishes to conclusively prove it
>Eventually this happens by the end of Zero 4

Is Wily winning even up for debate? Hell, is he even a villain when we really think about it?

[Anonymous No.11006306]

>>11006294
>implied to have created this reploid
Zero is not a reploid.

[Anonymous No.11006310]

>>11006306
Neither is X, but Capcom retconned it into X and Zero being recognized as the first reploids in the lorebooks.

[Anonymous No.11006338]

>>11006294
>never once bitching about it
he looks to me like a gramps who would constantly bitch about it while he's working on the next thing and forces his robots to listen the whole time, then pretend he was never upset at all when facing his foes

[Anonymous No.11006352]

>>11006294
Well, he did work for Shadaloo in his younger days.

[Anonymous No.11006629]

>>11005239
Weil should be Wily, but not in a literal sense. By the time of the Zero series, it would make sense if the digital consious of Wily from the X series still lives on, probably at that point as something like or a part of whatever is left of the Zero/Maverick/Sigma virus. Even if Wily is long dead, its a cool concept that a digital echo of his personality became imprinted on another scientist during his own cybernetic experiments and it made him go schizo and adapt a personality based on the most basic, distilled essence of Wily's ambitions.

[Anonymous No.11006703]

>>11004206
Basically. Light's invention of the robot directly led to all humanity going extinct.

[Anonymous No.11006718]

>>11006294
Seemed kind of short sighted when he discovered an ancient alien relic and all he did with the technology was make another robot master that tosses blades at people out of it.

[Anonymous No.11008543]

>>11006718
>discovered an ancient alien relic and all he did with the technology was make another robot master that tosses blades at people
Based.

[Anonymous No.11008678]

>>11006703
Humanity didn't go extinct. The Master stated that Carbons were more human that the Elysiuans and you can't call a race that bleeds, fucks, and dies less human than the immoral god-beings that can bring themselves back to life if you redownload their dna from a central computer bank.

[Anonymous No.11008693]

>>11006310
"Reploids" are called that because Dr. Cain literally "replicated" X's blueprints to make them. It's implied that people stopped making robots with Robot Master-level intelligence after Light and Wily die. That's how the Zero/Sigma virus is even able to work on them in the first place.

[Anonymous No.11008698]

>>11006629
It's weird to me that everyone is 100% fine with Dr. Light's consciousness living on in the Armour Tube Holograms, but Wily downloading his mind and placing it in robot bodies is too far-fetched.

[Anonymous No.11008717]

>>11008698
Based on the genre tropes the series is based around, the two most brilliant scientists in the world in the field of robotics and AI, either slowly cyborgizing themselves with age, going as brains in a jar or fully backing up their minds as software, makes perfect sense. Especially with how bombastic Wily was and always having back up plans in place, I dont see his character just accepting his mortal death when he has spent his entire career working with artificial life.

[Anonymous No.11008720]

Dr. Wily being the bad guy in every single classic series game is already tiresome; having him also be the villain in another series game is too much.

[Anonymous No.11008727]

>>11008698
>Implying Dr.Light capsules aren't all pre-recorded messages due to him being a really good guesser

[Anonymous No.11008734]

>>11008698
Weil is a literal human being and not a reploid. He was alive when Zero went to sleep during the X series. Wily was still using robot bodies by X6's time.

[Anonymous No.11008773]

>>11008678
I think the implications were Carbons were "more human" then what was left of humanity, in the sense that they actually still walk the surface of the Earth and live like normal sentient beings and not as beings trapped in an artificial Eden that those living on it need for nothing and thus live unfulfilled, immortal existence. Hence why the master asks Trigger to leave Elysium and live the live they never could.

I'd imagine Carbons are the end result of the biometals that ZX was introducing, essentially beings made of nanomachines that replicate cell structures and also allow the melding with other artificial parts. Alternatively, they are some type of mixed race where humans and Reploids became so indistinguishable, between Reploids using organic parts and humans cybernetic, they somehow created a new semi artificial species and the pure blood humans all fucked off to the moon.

[Anonymous No.11008829]

>>11008720
You're right, it should be Sigma every game instead.

[Anonymous No.11008842]

>>11008829
It wasn't Sigman in Xtreme, X6 and X8

[Anonymous No.11008861]

>>11006352
Don't judge. Graduate robotics school is expensive and Wily had to make student loan payments somehow. Unfortunately, he discovered too late was being paid in Bisonbucks, which is why he had to turn to a life of crime.

[Anonymous No.11009054]

>>11008698
Who said it was far-fetched? It just would cut against his character to be a genocidal maniac suddenly, and would also defeat part of the purpose of Weil - he’s probably the most despicable human in the entire franchise. That’s different than “oh it’s a copy of Wily’s mind in a robot and he’s gone crazy”

[Anonymous No.11009063]

>>11003797
>his work had a lingering effect at A HUGE LONG TERM in the world fucking it up in the end

[Anonymous No.11009074]

>>11009063
You call that winning? He wanted to take over the world not destroy it.

[Anonymous No.11009080]

>>11006310
>>11008693
>>11006306
It's a little bit complicated than that. Reploids is, indeed, short for Replica Androids as they're approximated Replicas to what Dr. Cain could understand of X's workings, however X was woken up when Reploid society was already established (as opposed to the popular belief he was activated right away) and Cain lied to him about his true origin. X early on didn't knew he was the source of it all, and from his perspective the "capsule doctor" was just some sort of unknown ally. Of course by X6 he 100% knows. In some media like Irregular Report, X puts two and two together right after meeting the Dr. Light AI and he gets mad Dr. Cain lied to him but because Sigma's forces keep moving he has no time to dwell on it further.

Zero likewise is officially classified as a reploid because everything pertaining to him is top secret. When Lifesaver in X5 begins to put two and two together, Signas tells him to cease his research on Zero, as Signas clearly would have the clearance to know the real deal.

Likewise, anyone who breaks into the forbidden area (located somewhere in the midwestern US, X was discovered in a lab in this area), is shot dead on the spot, as Alia would know first hand.

Basically, X and Zero "are" reploids and must identify themselves as reploids because "the public must not know". It's also why Repliforce members and X5 bosses think so little of X and Zero just at first glance.

[Anonymous No.11009102]

>>11005334
Sincere answer: Inafune loved Yoshirio Iwamoto's take on the source material in the Rockman X manga and decided the games to truly evolve beyond gameplay needed a more serious story than what classic Mega Man did. For X2 and X3, him and Hayato Kaji focused more on plot and once X4 rolled up, since both men were raised to new responsibilities within Capcom and couldn't occupy their time on Mega Man 24/7 anymore, They had Koji Ohkohara make a plot out of their initial pitch idea. He did some changes in characterization and the addition of Iris, but yeah.

Iwamoto was held in super high regard by Inafune, so much in the 00s he convinced another publication to let Iwamoto finish the X4 manga because the original publication, Comic Bom Bom, went bankrupt, spoke highly of it and back in 98 invited him and other mangaka he liked (like Ariga) to design the Mega Man & Bass Robot Masters.

[Anonymous No.11009110]

>>11009054
Mega Man 8 already set up that the evil already in Wily's heart was magnified by the Evil Energy that Duo was chasing after. It's totally possible that he became more and more evil afterwards.

[Anonymous No.11009123]

>>11009110
It definitely escalated by the time of X5, where Wily told Sigma "You know what could fix my robot? Dropping a space colony the size of europe and asia onto earth and risking destroying it. That'll fix my robot."

[Anonymous No.11009128]

>>11009102
>Yoshirio Iwamoto
Based.
His depiction of X vs. Vile in X3 was phenomenal. Just pure violence.

[Anonymous No.11009129]

>>11005334
Original Megaman was such a light hearted fun game where nobody was ever really hurt. Then it had to lead to edgy shit and total genocide of humanity etc. It's a weird escalation when looking back.

[Anonymous No.11009135]

>>11008678
>>11008773
Didn't all of humanity have to leave Earth earlier in the series anyway due to the constant robot wars ruining the planet?

[Anonymous No.11009141]

>>11006718
I think it was the fact that it was a master with such a simple primitive weapon that was the ancient alien technology that makes it weird. A ninja that tosses big shurikens at people, any robot can toss shurikens. It should have been Gemini Man. I can believe a self replicating robot that shoots lasers that bounce for no apparent reason as wacky alien technology that makes no sense to humans.

[Anonymous No.11009142]

>>11009128
Honestly, too bad he couldn't convince Capcom to fo do an X5 manga. It seems Iwamoto's X manga had some popularity in China, as the manhwa artist for the chinese X5 adaptation was clearly trying to go for Iwamoto's visual flare.

[Anonymous No.11009148]

>>11008693
I know that. I just said the lorebooks changed the way they were seen by the rest of society, being called Reploids even though they're not as to hide their origins.
>>11009080
Dragoon was so easily tricked by Sigma to crash the Sky Lagoon on the promise that he would get to fight X at full power, it's hard to believe it wasn't already well known that X isn't quite a Reploid. The fact that he never dies and is usually the sole survivor of each of the Maverick Wars should be a dead giveaway.

[Anonymous No.11009151]

>>11009135
Most of the world's population was decimated by a colony drop in X5. The rest are in the other colonies that have existed since at least X4.

[Anonymous No.11009159]

>>11009148
>it's hard to believe it wasn't already well known that X isn't quite a Reploid
Dragoon only knew X's true potential by besting Sigma 3 times in a row. The same Sigma who was both the Hunters' global C.O. and on-field commander of the 17th Elite Unit that X now commands. From Dragoon's perspective, X was an exceptional reploid whose only "flaw" was how he "overthinks" and fears risking. Reploids weren't quite there for the most part until the Zero or even ZX era, a lot of them being "let's fight nigga, who cares what's around us" while X has the weight of empathy constantly on him. "What if people get hurt? What if I over do it? What if I secretly enjoy fighting? Doesn't that means I'm malfunctioning as well?"

The suffering circuit gives him autism to hyperfixate on such things. Truly, the human factor.

[Anonymous No.11009163]

>>11009141
More alien bots show up in other games. Alien robots are not more impressive than anything Wiley makes on the regular.

[Anonymous No.11009184]

>>11009159
>Dragoon only knew X's true potential by besting Sigma 3 times in a row
I'm pretty sure he found out in sparring sessions during training, given his good eye for skilled fighters. They even reuse his corpse as a training dummy in X5.
We can assume that X ending three wars in a row is kept classified since nobody outside of Hunter HQ takes him seriously, but even then it's hard to explain why X never dies, gets subversed by the virus or joins the Mavericks of his own free will after so long, especially since everyone points out how old he is. Even Zero dies and gets turned a few times.

[Anonymous No.11009203]

>>11009184
This is questioned and Signas only comes up with bullshit excuses as to dissaduate any more hearsay.
"Oh, you know, his program made new antiviral measures after fighting Sigma several times" even if that makes zero sense. I don't doubt many at HQ at least suspect anything, but it makes sense why Alia became assignated as X's and Zero's personal navigator, since she was at the Reploid Lab's highest spheres of access and is completely in the know to the point according to the Rockman X5 website from back in the day, she built the Fourth Armor replica X uses in X5 because X routinely destroys his armors afraid of their power and purposely asked Alia to gimp it, which is why Dr. Light decides to leave the new armors purely as blueprint programs so she can actually build them at HQ.

[Anonymous No.11009232]

>>11009129
Even OG was raising the stakes with everything between 7/GameBoy 5 until they "rebooted" with 9 as a retro throwback. It was inevitable after a bunch of early games where the plot was the same basically and they tried mixing it up a bit with 4-6.

[Anonymous No.11009237]

>>11009129
Classic Megaman and Megaman X don't have a straight connection to each other to keep both of these themes separate. Yes it's the same universe but you'll never see a Classic megaman game where the characters start dying or the plot starts changing into a darker tone to give way for X1.

[Anonymous No.11009238]

>>11009135
Humans still were alive in the ZX series, but many were cyborgs themselves and the world itself seemed to be going through a regenesis of nature after all of the wars, but in a way where it was fusing with the remnant technology fragments littering the planet.

[Anonymous No.11009262]

>>11009237
Its a shame they won't. Like I get there is probably a good portion of fans who dont want to see it and keep it up to the imagination, but there is likely just as large a group of the fans that want to fight a rampaging Proto-Zero. I think at this point in the franchise, it wouldn't be too controversial. It's not like the series is there to sell to little Japanese boys anymore, its all a bunch of 25+ year olds that are the only ones who give any shit about the franchise at this point(any of its subfranchises) and most are likely atleast somewhat aware of the chronology.

They can have their cake and eat it too. Just call any games that have such a major interconnected plot as non numbered entries, like the two MegaMan & Bass games and have them exist either far off in the series timeline or keep them in a vague canonical point that they could just handwave away if they ever felt like it, like the plot of the Xtreme games and Command Mission. Doesn't even just have to be contained to the classic series. Do a X spinoff, "what-if" that covers the origin of the Elf Wars. Do a Legends prequel where you play as a full power Trigger going on missions for Elysium to destroy rogue MegaMen and anchient machines threatening a race of primitive Carbons in a feudal era of civilization development. Do fucking anything with the series.

[Anonymous No.11009263]

>>11009110
How did Mega Man 8 set that up? I recall Mega Man being affected by Evil Energy, not Wily.

[Anonymous No.11009265]

>>11009123
It's pretty much the ultimate challenge to Light's Legacy. All the world's most advanced robots (based on Light's design no less) are putting the world in it's greatest danger in a way where not even an ORGANIZATION of robot heroes can't stop it, all while his own greatest creation has finally reawakens to his original purpose and prove to be Mega Man's greatest final challenge: can you kill your own best friend for the sake of a world that may never trust robots again?

[Anonymous No.11009286]

>>11009265
And although X6 thew a hitch in the works needing X6 to be rewritten, storywise I like Wily is so spiteful that, since Light fixed his robot, Wily used a new robot body to fix his and set him out on the wild. It's a very unique brand of pettiness.

[Anonymous No.11009291]

>>11009286
Yea i like the idea that the AI remnants of these two old guys just dont even give a fuck anymore beyond tinkering with their bots, while the planet keeps deteriorating around them. Like two people so obsessed with playing chess, they dont even notice or care the house they are in is currently on fire.

[Anonymous No.11009307]

>>11009263
Duo says that the Evil Energy can only be utilized and multiplied if it infects the mind of someone whose heart is pure evil. Wily turned one orb into multiple and used it to built a massive fortress in a volcano. Wily even manifested one more to attack Mega Man at the end of the game.

[Anonymous No.11009328]

I gotta admit, I never really liked the "alien" elements introduced in the OG series. Like Evil Energy, Stardroids, anchient alien ruins. I get its homages to stuff like Astroboy, but imo, It just kinda takes away from the theme of human technological advancement and evolving robotics when you have an extraterrestrial element to it.

What I think would be a wild and out there way to slightly retcon these bits, would be the reveal that the world of the OG series isnt necessary the future of our real world, but rather all of human history up until that point is itself a "post-post apocalypse". That there are remnants discovered that humans are only just re-reaching a level of technological advancement and civilization that they had thousands of years ago, then they blasted themselves back into the stoneage with atomic wars or their own robot apocalypse, and everything historically after has been the rebuilding of civilization, that is reaching a point where humanity may once more repeat its mistakes. Make the "alien" tech remnants left behind or returning to Earth after being sent to explore space and "Evil Energy" is just some kind of lost technology along the lines of the Cyber Elves that has not been replicated yet. You can still maintain the theme of past innovation becoming future mistakes in a roundabout way.

Hell, if you want to get real mind fucky, make Legends the prequel series to everything else.

[Anonymous No.11010058]

>>11009102
Why does he look like Urushihara drew him

[Anonymous No.11010330]

>>11009237
This is why I can't really see goofy, petty, cartoony Dr. Wily as we know him in Classic MM suddenly going mega-genocidal through robot expies in MMX. At best, I can see Wily making an AI like Light that's made to finish Zero in his place, but over the decades has malfunctioned and is now doing things the real Wily would never do in the name of completing its programmed objective.

[Anonymous No.11011616]

>>11010058
I guess you could say it's just a "late 80s/early 90s aesthetic".
I don't dislike it, though.

[Anonymous No.11011775]

>>11006242
Imagine having sex

[Anonymous No.11011792]

>>11008829
Lumine was a simp for Sigma

[Anonymous No.11011805]

>>11010058
Mmmm, Aile's metallic pubes and marionette body