/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.10988294]

What are some franchises where it was all downhill? The first game was the best, the second was worse, the third even worse than that, and so on?

[Anonymous No.10988296]

sonic

[Anonymous No.10988301]

Kingdom Hearts

[Anonymous No.10988317]

Baldur's Gate

[Anonymous No.10988318]

Biohazard

[Anonymous No.10988323]

>>10988294
>>10988296
Alex the kidd

[Anonymous No.10988330]

Poketto Monsutā Aka
Poketto Monsutā Midori

[Anonymous No.10988334]

Starcraft

[Anonymous No.10988340]

>>10988294
Final Fantasy Tactics
(but only if you don't consider Tactics Ogre to be its predecessor)

[Anonymous No.10988342]

>>10988294
Tomb Raider

[Anonymous No.10988343]

Dino Crisis.

[Anonymous No.10988346]

>>10988294
Pac-man

[Anonymous No.10988349]

>>10988294
Exoddus is a good game, but the original is laser focused and has perfect pacing and tone
the problems with Exoddus are that it drags on way too much, it reuses the Scrabania and Paramonia temples with the Mudomo and Mudanchee vaults (Lorne even said this was because they had to reuse assets, wasn't a part of the original vision), the humor goes a bit too far into slapstick goofball territory with the Magog on the March and possessing farts, the Mudokon personalities really don't add much to gameplay and managing them via slapfights is pretty stupid, being able to possess every single creature takes away the predator & prey dynamic, the story isn't as good and manual saving can make the game a real pain if you save in a bad spot
the 'all o' ya!' feature is great, the roller thing is fun to use, visually it's fantastic and the soundtrack is great, but the original has it beat
it's like that one review (which Lorne himself agrees with), it's twice the game but half the heart

[Anonymous No.10988353]

this

[Anonymous No.10988359]

my answer would derail the thread so I'm not going to say it.

[Anonymous No.10988372]

>>10988294
Parasite Eve. First game is a classic. Second game has some cool things about it, but it strips away most of what made the first game unique to be a more standard survival horror. The third game killed the series.

[Anonymous No.10988383]

Turok

Some would say Final Fight but I wouldn't

[Anonymous No.10988419]

Vandal Hearts is great. Vandal Hearts II is worse. Vandal Hearts Flames of Judgement is garbage. The art also took a nosedive across all three games.

[Anonymous No.10988425]

>>10988294
mega man x
>>10988353
apparently woolie world (and maybe crafted world? idk) is good

[Anonymous No.10988431]

Max Payne.

[Anonymous No.10988494]

>>10988296
This, but unironically.

[Anonymous No.10988512]

Earthworm Jim

[Anonymous No.10988521]

I want to say this is how I personally feel about Doom but that might be controversial.

[Anonymous No.10988530]

>>10988294
Alone in the dark

[Anonymous No.10988532]

Bushido Blade

[Anonymous No.10988550]

>>10988512
I agree. 2 wasn't awful; some of the platforming levels were fine, but half the game consisting of weird minigame type shit was ridiculous (and of course Puppy Love, which was bad enough once, no idea why they thought having you do it three fucking times was a good idea), not to mention reducing the final boss to an extremely easy race. I'm not sure if the game were rushed or something, because there's an extremely rough, barely playable April 1995 prototype with some interesting placeholder demo concepts which went unused in the final game, but then the entire game was finished just over 4 months later.

[Anonymous No.10988568]

>>10988494
>>10988296
Do you mean just the main games? Because no way anyone thinks random shit like Sonic Chaos and Sonic R aren't worse than some of what came after.

[Anonymous No.10988592]

>>10988301
But CoM and 2 are fine.

[Anonymous No.10988593]

>>10988346
Ms. Pac-Man is pretty good. Pac Attack and Pac-Mania are mostly harmless as well

>>10988353
I like the DS game but never played any of the others besides it and the original.

>>10988425
X2, X4, and X5 are pretty good imo.

[Anonymous No.10988596]

>>10988318
Nah, fuck you, Nemesis was cool especially since it gave me more Jill. Fuck 2 right up the ass though.

[Anonymous No.10988604]

>>10988346
Wrong. Ms. Pac-Man is an improvement in pretty much every way, unless you’re a kid who needs the game to play at a snails pace.

[Anonymous No.10988606]

>>10988596
I sure would fuck Claire right in the ass. Leon seriously needs to find some medications to cure his yellow fever, otherwise he'll be fucking retarded for life.

[Anonymous No.10988609]

>>10988372
>>10988431
I agree with these.

[Anonymous No.10988617]

>>10988318
I agree with Biohazard/RE.
The first was a masterpiece.
2 was still really good but lacked the “soul” 1 had.
3 was the same formula beaten into the ground with no soul.
4 was the point of no return.

[Anonymous No.10988678]

I have a suspicion that /vr/ doesn't like FarCry too much, but we all should agree that first game was the best one.

Everything afterwards... yeah.

[Anonymous No.10988758]

>>10988294

[Anonymous No.10988830]

>>10988592
No they aint

[Anonymous No.10988878]

>>10988383
This is fairly accurate, with the first two games both being great, although I can see 2 lower than 1 due to piss poor framerate. However Turok 2008, while a mediocre game in itself, was far better than turok evolution.

[Anonymous No.10988896]

>>10988294
What about series that were good in the beginning but peaked in the sequel then the 3rd is worse than the original. Like Donkey Kong Country

[Anonymous No.10988907]

>>10988896
F.E.A.R.

[Anonymous No.10988909]

>>10988294

[Anonymous No.10988915]

>>10988896
>Donkey Kong Country
>peaked in the sequel
no

kys

[Anonymous No.10988916]

>>10988340
Do people consider Tactics Ogre a predecessor? They weren't from the same publisher originally.

[Anonymous No.10988921]

>>10988294
Ultimate example is Clock Tower.

>>10988383
Final Fight works.

>>10988431
Only relatively speaking. 2 and (to a lesser extent) 3 are both still great.

>>10988907
This is a PRIME example. I can't believe I forgot this. Probably the only other one that's as extreme as Clock Tower.

[Anonymous No.10988924]

>>10988909
Was this the one that came with the skateboard peripheral?

[Anonymous No.10988925]

>>10988383
>>10988921
No, not Final Fight. 3 is better than 2. That refutes the OP's concept.

[Anonymous No.10988934]

Arguably Super Monkey Ball
I put 1 and 2 on even ground because I like some of the wackier stuff 2 does and I like the adventure mode but I think 1 is a little better on pure mechanics. Both games are way better than anything that came out after.
(I thought Banana Mania was alright despite botching Monkey Target to a preposterous degree, but ultimately it doesn't feel "quite right" and I don't play it over the originals.)

[Anonymous No.10988951]

>>10988294
Tomb Raider is the biggest one for me.

[Anonymous No.10988960]

>>10988909
Well this came out of nowhere...
If THPS as a series: hard disagree, 2 was best, 3&4 are really good, THUG can compete with 2 and THUG2 was really fun but too much Bam Margera. Everything up until the 1 & 2 remake is pretty ass.
If downhill jam as a one-and-done w/ hardware peripheral, Top Skater was first and did it way better in 1997, 11 years before DHJ.

[Anonymous No.10988963]

>>10988960
*9, oops.

[Anonymous No.10988964]

>Most of the games mentioned are literally "first game is retro, subsequent games not retro"
I'm gonna actually give a completely retro franchise, Dark Seed
First one has creepy atmosphere and is serviceable adventure game
Second one is a joke at best, a slog at worst

[Anonymous No.10988968]

>>10988924
>>10988960
The joke continues going over everyone's head

[Anonymous No.10988971]

>>10988896
eh i'd say the third is better than the original there but i can see preferring it over 3 too. also it has two other games

[Anonymous No.10988972]

>>10988968
...j-joke?!?
Big yikes if that passes as funny to you :(

[Anonymous No.10988975]

Crazy Taxi.

[Anonymous No.10989004]

Jak II is contentious but it could be argued the Jak & Daxter series fits the bill.

[Anonymous No.10989096]

Jurassic Park

[Anonymous No.10989136]

>>10988349
Everything you say is true, but I still love it.
Oddysee is art, Exoddus is a game.
I think had they simply shortened the game a little bit, and not had fart possession, it would have been much better.
I think Exoddus' pacing gets it right in some places though. All the factory levels feel more intense and interesting, Oddysee has many areas where you have to simply backtrack though a cleared area after throwing the flintlock to get to the door you came in through.

[Anonymous No.10989150]

>>10988915
>Everything up until the 1 & 2 remake is pretty ass.
Project 8 (360) was super underrated. It was like a mix of THPS and THUG without all the weird gimmicks. Just pure a Tony Hawk game with a good map.
Outside of that single game I strongly agree though.

[Anonymous No.10989152]

Ratchet & Clank

Peaked high and just got worse with each sequel. Honestly that's true of most games though, people just think that a sequel adding more content/features automatically makes it an improvement, which is rarely true.

[Anonymous No.10989154]

>>10988975
>Crazy Taxi
ya ya ya ya ya
I always forget there’s more than one

[Anonymous No.10989158]

>>10989136
Fart possession perfectly encapsulates 1998 gaming culture and probably accounted for a majority of their marketing/word of mouth. It's a boring mechanic that doesn't add anything to the game but it's emblematic of Oddworld

[Anonymous No.10989163]

>>10989152
>which is rarely true.
I’d argue that for a long time it WAS true. It wasn’t until the past 15 years or so that “sequels” have slyly become “remakes” in disguise.
For a long time sequels truly were just the original game with more.

[Anonymous No.10989164]

>>10988296
>>10988494
Deliberate baiting. I am 100% certain no one would ever sincerely believe that.
Real answer is Banjo-Kazooie.

[Anonymous No.10989165]

>>10988294
Mega Man X. Perfection, immediately to a pretty good game, to bottom of the barrel garbage slime, to varying degrees of worthless crap. It's the steepest drop in quality I've ever seen and somehow they were allowed to make 5 bad sequels before finally and thankfully being put down.

[Anonymous No.10989190]

>>10989152
>Ratchet and Clank
Have you ever listened to Mike Stout and Tony Garcia's developer commentaries?
It's a perfect demonstration of everything that's wrong with game design. As funny as they are and it's also quite interesting, they actually believe the mantras they're taught and consider 2 and 3 improvements in every way, and cite sales figures and reviews as proof.
>Fart possession
>drink brew
>fart
>chant
>direct fart over a land mine
>explode landmine
>repeat
God that was boring

[Anonymous No.10989201]

>>10989152
>Ratchet and Clank
Have you ever listened to Mike Stout and Tony Garcia's developer commentaries?
It's a perfect demonstration of everything that's wrong with game design. As funny as they are and it's also quite interesting, they actually believe the mantras they're taught and consider 2 and 3 improvements in every way, and cite sales figures and reviews as proof.
They consider themselves heroes because they got the most stuff in the game and got it finished, but seem to never wonder if it was any good
>>10989158
Fart possession
>drink brew
>fart
>chant
>direct fart over a land mine
>explode landmine
>repeat
God that was boring

[Anonymous No.10989205]

>>10989152
>Honestly that's true of most games though, people just think that a sequel adding more content/features
A lot of devs especially up through 4th and 5th gen actually did learn from initial efforts and made legitimate improvements and advancements. Mega Man is one example.

[Anonymous No.10989208]

ENTER

[Anonymous No.10989214]

>>10989164
Tooie and Grunty's Revenge are fine imo. I've never played Banjo Pilot. N&B is definitely a different type of game, but even at its worst it's still not bad imo. Still sad the series never got a proper remake in the vein of Conker, Crash, or Spyro.

[Anonymous No.10989331]

>>10988294

[Anonymous No.10989353]

>>10988909
Jokes aside, this is one of the best Tony Hawk games.

[Anonymous No.10989369]

>>10988323
>the

[Anonymous No.10989397]

>>10989369
kek imagine correcting the grammar in a post about a game written entirely in engrish

[Anonymous No.10989448]

>>10988294
Desu Sex

[Anonymous No.10989549]

>>10988916
tactics ogre is traditionally considered to be the first disgaealike in the genre

[Anonymous No.10989562]

>>10988294

[Anonymous No.10989596]

nba jam, star fox, f-zero, crysis and stalker in case 2007 is retro now

[Anonymous No.10989642]

>>10989150
You replied to the wrong Anon, but I get you. P8 just felt like there was much to be desired, and then Skate came out same year or soon after. The silly gimmicks and absurdity of THPS-THUG2 were wreally charming, after all it's arcade franchise, P8 felt a little too serious. Don't get me wrong P8 is a good game but marked a downhill course of fucking bullshit, AND got eclipsed by Skate soon after. I saw the THPS mobile games and THPS5 and it really bummed me out how truly dogshit the games can be without Neversoft lol.

[Anonymous No.10989649]

>>10988294
Mega Man X. Maybe not so much for 4 but def after that yes it went completely downhill.

[Anonymous No.10989683]

sly cooper if it hasn't been said already

[Anonymous No.10989732]

the Batman Arkham games

[Anonymous No.10989846]

>>10988294
Rayman, but it was a pretty gentle slope.

[Anonymous No.10989870]

>>10989683
Based on watching a retrospective, the writing quality increased to kino levels, but the gameplay variety became spastic and less about stealth.

[Anonymous No.10989881]

>>10989448
But HR is better than 2 you retard.

[Anonymous No.10989902]

>>10988342
Best answer in thread

[Anonymous No.10990367]

>>10989683
Lol no, Sly 2 is the best in the trilogy.

[Anonymous No.10990394]

>>10988294
Quake

t. genuine clanner

[Anonymous No.10990492]

>>10989881
this is what consolefrags think

[Anonymous No.10990515]

Heroes of Might & Magic.

[Anonymous No.10990532]

>>10989208
Bethesda games in general. Every new release is worse than the last one.

[Anonymous No.10990540]

>>10989448
>We...are one.

Flashbacks of Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne campaign end. Man, Warcraft used to be so good. Pains me to hear about what it looks like now.

[Anonymous No.10993350]

>>10988294
>What are some franchises where it was all downhill?
>The first game was the best, the second was worse, the third even worse than that, and so on?
Crash Bandicoot.

[Anonymous No.10993356]

>>10988425
Wooly World is alright.
Crafted World is braindead baby tier, like Yoshi’s Story.
DS is just tedious, levels get way too long making 100% a painful chore.
Didn’t play New Island.

[Anonymous No.10993367]

>>10993356
The enjoyment you get from those games depend on the agegroup, children can enjoy crafted world a lot.

[Anonymous No.10993372]

>>10988592
both are downhill from 1

[Anonymous No.10993428]

>>10988294
Fable

[Anonymous No.10993457]

>>10993350
This.

[Anonymous No.10993461]

>>10988294
Silent Hill

[Anonymous No.10993504]

pic related was their best and it's been all downhill ever since the transition to 3D. they stopped focusing on core gameplay and cared more about flashy moves and graphics. many such cases. they still have yet to recover 25+ years later

[Anonymous No.10993847]

>>10990515
HOMM3 was peak.
Also King's Bounty was the real first HOMM

[Anonymous No.10993923]

>>10988521
It shouldn't be. You're right!

[Anonymous No.10994475]

This game for several reasons...
1) a horde of angry Spanish speaking villagers attacking you.
2) Arcade-like action
3) Villages? Castles? Villagers? A midget dressed like he's straight from the 1700's? Druids? All of this seems out of place, as if this was a reskin of another game since it doesn't seem to really take place in modern day.
4) The sequels ended up progressively worse(no thanks to RE4). RE5 and beyond is garbage. I gave up on RE the same way I gave up on Silent Hill after playing Silent Hill 4.

[Anonymous No.10994510]

>>10990515
I don't know anyone who prefers the first game over 2 or 3.

Still, HoMM nailed most of the core mechanics. It's just that the 2 sequels each added a layer of polish and content that made them better. Then there's 4, that I personally enjoyed, but it changes so much I understand some hate it.

[Anonymous No.10994671]

>>10994475
4th mainline entries always always seems to be a franchise killer or changing the game series into something it's not. RE lost it's identity, while SH became stale.

[Anonymous No.10994749]

>>10988592
Story-wise, KH2 is awful.

[Anonymous No.10994795]

>>10994671
That explains why SH died and RE became a completely different franchise that no longer was about survival horror & shooting zombies

[Anonymous No.10994890]

Red Dead, Revolver was peak

[Anonymous No.10994919]

>>10988907
>fear 2
>good
I'm so tired..

[Anonymous No.10994921]

>>10988294
perfect dark
>third didn't even come out
is that bad

[Anonymous No.10994946]

>>10989562
the arcade game was garbage compared to the snes games, and the later gba game.

[Anonymous No.10995173]

>>10988593
>>10988604
Ms PacMan is the quivalent of a rom hack.

[Anonymous No.10996081]

>>10988294
Painkiller, if you don't consider Battle out of hell a second game (it was an expansion, and IIRC it required an original to play). First one was one of the most fun shooters of the 00s, sequels were just official releases of crappy mods.

[Anonymous No.10996086]

>>10988758
This. Zoomers are nostalgic for 2 and i understand them but on release it was such a disappointment, holy shit.
>>10988678
I won't say that it was the best one, but it was very impressive for 2004, in a way that sequels weren't. Far Cry is a weird series, in publuc eyes it only started with 3, but the real sequel to 1 was Crysis (proper retro game by modern /vr/ standards) and 2 is the most ambitious game in the series (even if it is way less fun to play then to analyze).

[Anonymous No.10996091]

>>10988921
>Ultimate example is Clock Tower.
>>10988907
>F.E.A.R.
>>10989154
>Crazy Taxi
>>10993428
>Fable
>>10996081
>Painkiller
These are the only correct answers in the thread. Every other series had at least one game that was better than its immediate predecessor. I'm not counting >>10994921 because there's only 2 games, so that feels like cheating.

[Anonymous No.10996093]

>>10989154
>>10996091
>>Crazy Taxi

Not so sure about this one. I think 3 might be better than 2.

[Anonymous No.10996108]

>>10988294
Saved by San Francisco but it is not /vr/ so i fuck it, it counts.
2 was more impressive technically but not as tightly designed, 3 was a trainwreck, and PL was a bland GTA clone built on the bones of the trainwreck that Driver 3 was. I didn't play 76 on PSP or SF on Wii which differs a lot from the mainline version, as i heard.

[Anonymous No.10996114]

>>10988678
2 isn't vr but it's the best one. Everything they added was for immersion and realism. Great fire mechanics

[Anonymous No.10996116]

>>10996093
What did 3 even add except for the horrible Vegas map and godawful bloom that you can't turn off?

[Anonymous No.10996513]

>>10994795
It would be like if Metal Gear Solid went from stealth espionage action to survival horror, it would make no sense.

[Anonymous No.10996569]

Borderlands

[Anonymous No.10996627]

>>10988294
Zelda.
The first one was fantastic for the standards of its time, even if it was inspired by other games. After that one, the series has remained consistently mediocre. They're games that try to do lots of different things without being particularly good at any of them.

[Anonymous No.10996909]

>>10990532
the greatest irony with starfield is that it's the exact same kind of meta/abstract storytelling from morrowind that people have been begging bethesda to go back to with TES and everyone hates it.

[Anonymous No.10998339]

>>10996513
Metal Gear Survive is that game, even though I love it. Also fuck Kojima.