/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.10922182]

How did they possibly create something like this on a first attempt? The only 3D experience they had was Star Fox 2.

[Anonymous No.10922201]

>>10922182
Probably because it wasn't the first attempt and there are earlier betas that aren't as polished

[Anonymous No.10922218]

>>10922182
They took their time, and put their best people on it. Both of those are super rare now and back in the mid 90s. I mean they developed this game with the console, from I think at least 94 until release. 3d consoles were out already and insted of freaking out and rushing to market some genius at Nintendo decided to take their time and do it right.

[Anonymous No.10922219]

>>10922201
This lol

[Anonymous No.10922249]

I always wondered this. That YouTuber that optimizes Mario 64 he goes into depth about how the code works and I'm just thinking, how the fuck did they know how to do this for a 3D game with no previous president? How do you know how to program for this stuff and then to do it so well first time ever.

[Anonymous No.10922261]

>>10922182
It was many factors.
Taking inspiration from Argonaut and SEGA, money, designers having the freedom to work on their own timeframes, programmers being crunched to husks, instead of being limited by the hardware they built the hardware around the software, lots of money

[Anonymous No.10922297]

>>10922182
It wasn't first 3d game, it wasn't first Mario either, the road was easy, all they needed was good devs/designers and they had them.

[Anonymous No.10922360]

>>10922182
Lots of prototyping and testing and learning from other people’s mistakes.

[Anonymous No.10922408]

>>10922182
They knew the hardware.
That's why there's not fog for shitty draw distance because they knew the console couldn't do it. It cleverly uses a lot of simple texture work and such since again, they knew what they were working with. Same shit with Spyro, people who knew the hardware and utilized it.

[Anonymous No.10922409]

>>10922182
To be fair this game (and pretty much all games on N64) were basic as shit compared to pc games. Nintendo was never about tech, only charm and branding

[Anonymous No.10922412]

>>10922409
Nope.
You look at them and rare. The way the made games was just different than how they do it now.
Most developers at best, grew up with DOS and windows 3.1. Those guys grew up programming on commodores and ZX Spectrums, they are better than us, simple as.

[Anonymous No.10922415]

>>10922219
lol

[Anonymous No.10922468]

>>10922201
betas are part of the same attempt. Once attempt = one release to the public

[Anonymous No.10922471]

>>10922201
betas are part of the same attempt. One attempt = one release to the public

[Anonymous No.10922472]

>>10922201
Autistic retard.Everything that led to the final product is counted in the same 'attempt'.

[Anonymous No.10922483]

>>10922472
thank you for chiming in, mr. software development understander

[Anonymous No.10922501]

>>10922249
>president
it's a doggy dog world, that's how

[Anonymous No.10922543]

>>10922249
You hire people who know how, there were some Americans I think working on the game too.

[Anonymous No.10922545]

>>10922261
>how did nintendo create a fully interactive 3d action platformer after star fox 2?
>...they copied racing and fighting games by sega

Just a reminder that Sega fans actually believe this (somehow). Peak lunacy.

[Anonymous No.10922556]

>>10922545
ah yes, of course Nintendo never even looked at any other publisher's games and Mario 64 simply leapt from the forehead of Miyamoto fully formed

[Anonymous No.10922558]

>>10922182
They literally hired the founder of argonaut to teach them how to do 3D. Check the credits.

[Anonymous No.10922565]

>>10922409
>To be fair this game (and pretty much all games on N64) were basic as shit compared to pc games.
Literally nothing on PC had 3d movement or camera mechanics with anywhere near the complexity that SM64 had. Quake came close, but still wasn't quite there yet, and it only came out a few days earlier than SM64 anyway. There weren't really any 3d games with outdoor landscapes at that scale before either.

[Anonymous No.10922570]

>>10922182
Same thing nintendo always did - they just ripped off someone else who had already laid the ground work and then they(Nintendo) polished it up better

In this case Argonaut Studios

[Anonymous No.10922616]

>>10922471
>>10922472
This. Pro weight lifters are able to lift 800 pounds on their first try! The 8000 sets prior before the competition are bundled into the first public attempt.

[Anonymous No.10922672]

>>10922182
beginner's luck

[Anonymous No.10922679]

>>10922570
Based OP having to bite his own bait because nobody else did

[Anonymous No.10922683]

>>10922501
For all intensive purposes, that's correct.

[Anonymous No.10922709]

>>10922182
>The only 3D experience they had was Star Fox 2.
They had a few others, primarily og Star Fox and Stunt Race FX, but also Mode 7 games like Pilotwings, F-Zero, and Super Mario Kart which were maybe not full 3D but still used some level of 3D. The other thing is this is Nintendo and Miyamoto, not some random indie dev. They had a lot of experience with game design and the hardware in general. I mean they literally designed the N64

Compare with something like Mischief Makers which is a fairly basic 2D platformer but also from a team with no prior knowledge of the N64 hardware, or even Pokemon Snap which was made by HAL Labs rather than Game Freak and takes an entirely new spin on Pokemon. Same deal with Hudson Soft and Mario Party, sort of. When you put it into perspective, it's still an impressive game for its time, but there were a ton of other really innovative titles during that time period from devs who had even less experience with the hardware.

[Anonymous No.10922716]

>>10922182
>How did they possibly create something like this on a first attempt?
By looking at / playing other 3D platformers and studying what was fun and what wasn't fun
Plus they wanted a game that would really sell the idea of an analog stick instead of a D-pad

[Anonymous No.10922727]

>>10922716
There weren't really any others at the time anon, unless you mean other 3D games in general

[Anonymous No.10923038]

It's just a sprite moving around on a map they were doing that since early 80s just had to add a z coordinate

[Anonymous No.10923119]

>>10922249
3D animation existed long before then. The math was figured out, consoles just needed to catch up.

[Anonymous No.10923138]

>>10922182
they had a whole system dedicated to proto 3d garbage called the Virtual Boy

[Anonymous No.10923169]

>>10922182
It was heavily delayed. Just like the SNES, the N64 had a period where its future was in jeopardy due to dev hell, and Mario 64 is part and parcel with that process.

[Anonymous No.10923229]

>>10922182
>The only 3D experience they had
You're fucking retarded.

[Anonymous No.10923704]

>>10922616
These games were developed in like 10-15 months in these days. And like 5 of those months is making the custom engine just for the one singular game. Before a single line of code has been made for the gameplay.

So it's actually like someone today who's literally never lifted a weight in their life competing in the Olympics 15 months from now.

[Anonymous No.10923719]

>>10922201
>>10922219
>>10923229
Nintendo waits for real companies to show them how do things and then steals the concept and adapts it to their cheaper 6-8 year old tech for the consoymer. It's always been the Nintendo way. Todd taught them everything.

[Anonymous No.10923726]

>>10923719
t.Stupid schizo zoomer

[Anonymous No.10923758]

>>10922415
lmao

[Anonymous No.10923759]

>>10922683
My purposes are extremely intensive

[Anonymous No.10923789]

>>10922182
Easy to find time to polish the mechanics when half of your actual levels were just copy pasted lol

[Anonymous No.10923794]

>>10922408
funnily enough they didn't
the n64 was just very very powerful
fog on shit draw distance was on the ps1 because you had no perspective correction or zbuffer: everything had to be broken into small pieces to be sorted correctly
the n64 was strong enough so it could just render one big low poly 3D model for your world (perspective correction + zbuffer)
spyro's trick was to use a very complicated LOD system - insomniac pulled a software engineering marvel to do what the n64 could do without effort

[Anonymous No.10924038]

How is it bait to say that Star Fox 2 had simple 3D design? Have you even played it? It's not an on-rails game. It creates actual open 3D environments, with an emphasis on types of depth, elevation, distinctive areas, mechanics, etc. It is quite clearly the precursor to Mario and Zelda, on a lower technology.

[Anonymous No.10924039]

[Anonymous No.10924041]

>>10923789
Copy and pasted from what?

[Anonymous No.10924042]

>>10922683
bone apple tea nigger

[Anonymous No.10924837]

>>10923794
Nigga stop acting like N64 games didn't use fog. I love the console too but cut the shit.

[Anonymous No.10924881]

>>10924039
The frame rate makes these games insufferable to play. I love the minimalist 3d aesthetic, though.

[Anonymous No.10926339]

>>10922683
Anon is a fag irregardless I could care less

[Anonymous No.10926359]

>>10923704
>source: my uncle who works at Nintendo

[Anonymous No.10926361]

They hired people with experience in 3d like Giles Goddard, who made 3d games on the Amiga.

[Anonymous No.10926365]

Ban "how" threads.

[Anonymous No.10926370]

>>10926365
>noooo we need more console war threads and -oomerposter threads but not discussion about games
how do you figure this exactly?

[Anonymous No.10926376]

>>10926370
He didn't call for that. Anons are capable of making threads that don't suck, I've seen it.

[Anonymous No.10926378]

>>10926370
We could just have better quality threads, I don't know how you pull "we need coom threads and console wars" from my post, but you're also a greentexting template poster, so being able to think with your brain is a limited skill for you.

[Anonymous No.10926475]

>>10926365
Here's a better idea. Ban autistic losers that show up in every thread just to post off-topic self-important bullshit.

[Anonymous No.10926523]

>>10922182
As far as I'm aware, Nintendo has a big culture of prototyping, throwing a lot of ideas on paper, trying them, and then shelving them for later if they don't work or ends up not working
I think it's crazy we got a demo as functional as Donkey that became Yoshi's Island
Among the ALTTP proto sprites there's something resembling the Deku Tree, which became a thing in OOT. There's a beta object in OOT that's the reed, that became a thing to call Epona in Twilight Princess. They're told us the cut WW dungeons ideas were reused later so they couldn't "restore" them for the HD remake
They're shown us (At the GDC?) the earliest form of Splatoon
https://tcrf.net/Prerelease:Splatoon/Early_Development
Mario 128, which was a test to see how much characters the Gamecube could render, became Pikmin, didn't it?
Nintendo being a console maker is putting them in a position where they can fuck around a little and actually try things, this has also ultimately put them in a position of them releasing a shitload of quality games

[Anonymous No.10926547]

>>10926475
Sorry to hear you love shit, faggot.

[Anonymous No.10926571]

>>10922249
3D gaming already existed on PC prior to consoles doing it.
As a matter of fact, Quake and Super Mario 64 released one day apart, as initial release dates are concerned.

In any case, enthusiasts like Kaze Emanuar and Pannen demonstrate, to an absurd degree, how flawed Super Mario 64's development was, with a lot of design and coding mistakes that lead to issues like "invisible walls" and other performance issues even when targeting 320x240 30 FPS.
They also have the hindsight of decades of familiarisation and modern programming expertise, whereas the developers for the launch title project didn't have that luxury.

What's remarkable is how well accomplished the game design is outside of the software, it understood very well that this would be so many people's first time playing a 3D game, and the analogue stick was essential to navigating that new dimension.

[Anonymous No.10926578]

>>10926571
Name a 3d platformer that came out on PC long enough before Super Mario 64 to have made a difference in its development.

[Anonymous No.10926579]

>>10926571
Also, Giles Goddard programmed Mario's face on the title screen. He's the only non-Japanese programming staff credited on SM64.

4chan didn't like however it was I phrased that sentence before and wouldn't let me post it.

[Anonymous No.10926585]

>>10926578
I specified 3D gaming for a reason, the technology itself was being better understood by the point that Nintendo tried to make a 3D platformer.

It really is truly remarkable that they got the 3D platformer so right on their first attempt, as compared to Bubsy 3D that had tank controls.
Sony saw how necessary the analogue sticks were to the future of 3D gaming, that's why the Dualshock controller was mandatory for Ape Escape.

Nintendo EAD really did just take their time to get the 3D controls just right. Right for the N64 controller anyway, which has the largest pivot of any analogue stick on any controller. It's a big factor in why SM64 doesn't control as well on modern controllers, that large pivot gives you a lot of finer control that was intended for perilous narrow platforms like in Tiny Huge Island, or Cool, Cool Mountain.

[Anonymous No.10926586]

>>10926585
I’m not reading paragraphs on 4chan lmao

[Anonymous No.10926589]

>>10926475
I gotta eat some pussy after that.

[Anonymous No.10926617]

>>10923794
>fog on shit draw distance was on the ps1

And on N64 in a large number of games.

[Anonymous No.10926651]

>>10922616
This is the dumbest analogy I've ever heard. Weightlifting is not a creative endeavour, you retard.

[Anonymous No.10926660]

>>10926651
creativity is an endeavor of repetitions and iterations aka weightlifting

[Anonymous No.10926664]

>>10926660
While exposure to repetition is important in fostering creativity by allowing people to understand unoriginal thought patterns, repetition does not inherently produce creativity. Analysis is what leads to creativity.

Doing the same 3 lifts at the gym thousands of times is not going to spur a creative spark in someone to create a new workout routine or develop a new type of exercise.

t. typing this between sets at the gym

[sage No.10926681]

>>10922249
I watched some youtuber that mods mario 64 explain how he doubled the framerate by fixing a variety of things the OG devs did wrong.

The threads question isn't really accurate because the truth is mario 64 had a lot of flaws and the code itself wasn't efficient.

[Anonymous No.10926683]

>>10926651
t. never lifted weights in his life

[Anonymous No.10926709]

>>10926664
>Analysis is what leads to creativity.
this is why anime and vidya are iterative

[Anonymous No.10926751]

>>10926683
They're called "repetitions" and "routines". How can something repetitious and routine be creative, you blockheaded nincompoop?

[Anonymous No.10926757]

>>10926751
>analyze last thing
>tune to personal preferences

[Anonymous No.10926760]

>>10926757
99% of routines online are dogshit. If you're tuning your own routine to personal preferences, you're probably making a shit-tier routine than one that already exists, or lowering the quality of a routine you're already using

[Anonymous No.10926767]

>>10926760
sometimes a workout is 1 hour, sometimes it's 30 minutes

[Anonymous No.10926769]

>>10922182
>How did they possibly create something like this on a first attempt? The only 3D experience they had was Star Fox 2.
Miyamoto baited Dylan into thinking they’re going to give him the yoshi license so he made the croc prototype with yoshi and showed it to miyamoto. In reality, miyamoto just needed an idea on how to tackle the camera problem with Mario 64 and told Dylan he will contact him later. He pretty much ghosted him and then they sent a email to him saying it won’t work out (him making a yoshi game) without any elaboration. When Mario 64 was shown off on the floor, he saw Dylan and had a shit eating grin and told him something along the lines of “thank you for helping us realize the vision for Mario 64” (I’m paraphrasing but basically it was miyamoto thanking him for ripping off his yoshi prototype that never came to be)

The whole reason we had ads of croc eating a plumber’s hat was his anger at miyamoto. I wouldn’t say shiggy is a bad person, he’s nice but he is really competitive when it comes to other devs stealing the spotlight

[Anonymous No.10926771]

>>10926681
It's about what the player ends up seeing/experiencing though. Mario64 is a remarkably polished game for their first 3D platformer (even if the underlying code is held together with ducttape)

[Anonymous No.10926775]

>>10926767
Sometimes my jerk off session is 20 minutes, sometimes it's 30 minutes. Sometimes I use my hand, sometimes I reverse my hand and give myself the stranger.

Doesn't mean whacking my bishop is creative.

[Anonymous No.10926780]

>>10926751
The ability to recognise what works and what doesn't, is key to learning, iteration and improvement.

[Anonymous No.10926794]

>>10926775
it sounds like you get creative with your iterative masturbation routines

[Anonymous No.10926909]

>>10922182
jank 3d is not actually that difficult.

[Anonymous No.10926916]

Shinto magic

[Anonymous No.10926953]

>>10926769
Croc was complete dogshit.

[Anonymous No.10926956]

>>10926909
Can you show me some of the 3d games you made in the early-mid 90s?

[Anonymous No.10926986]

>>10922501
https://youtu.be/QI6N5GBoevI?feature=shared

[Anonymous No.10926994]

>>10926956
I made this in 1990.

[Anonymous No.10927032]

>>10922558
Oh boy, look at that credit! Couldn't have gotten it done without Giles!
The big thing with Mario 64 was movement relative to the camera rotation. It's the basis of all 3D games to this day.
Argonaut's Croc came out a year later and was still using tank controls.
Nintendo was the one who figured out and perfected the controls, not Argonaut. Argonaut helped with 3D rendering, and even then they were getting phased out of the N64 as Nintendo started to rely on SGI instead.

[Anonymous No.10927043]

>>10927032
Nintendo would still collaborate with Argonaut programmers in the future. 1080 Snowboarding was programmed by Giles and another Argonaut programmer named Colin Reed who also programmed Pikmin. They never let them occupy any game design positions.

[Anonymous No.10927084]

>>10926953
No one said it wasn't or was, he just copied how the camera worked. Dylan was rightfully upset, can't blame him

[Anonymous No.10927090]

>>10926769
>>10927084
Total fanfiction.

[Anonymous No.10927095]

>>10927090
Smart Bong knows what happens when you cross big N.
Doesn't want to get Yokoi'd

[Anonymous No.10927102]

>>10927090
Damage control doesn't help anon, everyone knows the kind of damage shiggy did with other developers.

[Anonymous No.10927106]

>>10927084
>he just copied how the camera worked
No, the camera in Croc is extremely rudimentary compared to the camera in SM64.

[Anonymous No.10927108]

>>10927095
>>10927102
We have the entirety of Star Fox 2's development assets and nothing even remotely close to Mario 64 exists within them.

[Anonymous No.10927120]

>>10922182
They had the advantage of designing the controller around the game and viceversa

[Anonymous No.10927124]

There were plenty of isometric 2D games that Nintendo could reference, for how full analog movement would work. The only change in 3D is adding a Z axis.

>>10924881
Yeah, if you're gonna play SF or SF2, you've gotta do it on an emulator where you can overclock the CPU and play it at a decent frame rate.

[Anonymous No.10927125]

>>10927108
so he was lying about that part too, huh?

[Anonymous No.10927127]

>>10927108
He was referring to the story about yoshi influencing Mario, not the other way around. The anon talking about Sf is a different anon

[Anonymous No.10927141]

>>10927127
There was no mythical SuperFX Yoshi prototype game. The closest thing is a single Yoshi model made some time during Star Fox 2's development, but it's more like that t-rex Playstation demo since it's not playable and uses most of the SuperFX to render.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Waey9gfO9lM

[Anonymous No.10927143]

>>10927032
>The big thing with Mario 64 was movement relative to the camera rotation.
There's no big thing, it was just something the game did just because and everyone started to ape it regardless of how useful it is.
>It's the basis of all 3D games to this day.
Died in the ps2 era you mean. Once midwits started to figure out why mouse and right analog exist, automatic camera control scheme became obsolete. Manual camera is much more precise and controllable. Modern games are a combination of Fade to Black's camera view, Tomb Raider's platforming, and Descent's controls. Mario 64 is an evolutionary dead end.
>Argonaut's Croc came out a year later and was still using tank controls.
And that's a good thing. While the camera rotation is primitive and sluggish, it's still more controllable than mario shit. The game's platforming needs more precision than mario 64.

[Anonymous No.10927147]

[Anonymous No.10927148]

>>10927143
>oi moight Mario didn't influence anything yeh? It was all *insert awful britjank here*
I wonder who could be behind this post?

[Anonymous No.10927150]

>>10927141
>There was no mythical SuperFX Yoshi prototype game.
Ano , the yoshi prototype was croc. It had nothing to do with superfx

[Anonymous No.10927154]

>>10927143
>Manual camera is much more precise and controllable
SM64 has a manual camera, retard. It was the first game to have a full set of camera controls that were largely independent from character movement. Every 3rd person game that uses the right joystick to move the camera around is iterative on the foundation SM64 set.

[Anonymous No.10927157]

>>10927150
>the yoshi prototype was croc
So in your mind Argonaut showed Nintendo a prototype for Croc in 1995 when Mario 64 was already shown off and in active development and they were so impressed by the tank controlling game they decided to rip it off by making a completely different game?

[Anonymous No.10927175]

>>10927154
>SM64 has a manual camera, retard.
>It was the first game to have a full set of camera controls that were largely independent from character movement.
It has selectable camera modes. There's no free movement control, or something that you could equate to "mouselook". If I remember, you'd have to hold the c-button while standing still and look around with the analog stick. That's not independent whatsoever.
>Every 3rd person game that uses the right joystick to move the camera around is iterative on the foundation SM64 set.
Not the most retarded thing I've ever read on this board, but it's pretty close. Well done anon.

[Anonymous No.10927191]

>>10927143
Dude, you know what I'm talking about when I say movement relative to camera rotation, right?
When the camera faces north, and I hold left, the player character runs west.
When I change the camera to face east but still hold left, the player character runs north.
Every modern third person game uses this movement. Ubisoft open world games, Rockstar's GTA, every Souls clone.

Fade to Black, Tomb Raider, and Croc use tank controls. Press left or right to turn your character's direction. Press up to move the character forward. The camera does it's best to stay behind the player, but the character's movement isn't influence by the camera. I know in Croc and Tomb Raider, if you turn fast enough, you can hold up and your character will run at the camera.

I can't name many modern games that use this type of movement, unless it's purposefully trying to ape old-school games. The closest is Resident Evil but even RE4 switched to movement relative to the camera for the remake.

[Anonymous No.10927193]

>>10927175
> There's no free movement control, or something that you could equate to "mouselook".
It has 8 directional camera controls, a zoomed in view, a zoomed out view, or a follow cam (R button) where you can hold the c-buttons to rotate the camera 360 degrees. Yes, it was limited by the c-buttons being digital, but it was attempting to accomplish the same thing conceptually.

[Anonymous No.10927197]

>>10927148
N64 wouldn't even exist without the brits.

[Anonymous No.10927202]

>>10927193
>It has 8 directional camera controls, a zoomed in view, a zoomed out view, or a follow cam (R button) where you can hold the c-buttons to rotate the camera 360 degrees
all of this during movement, i should have specified. the c-up "first person" cam is a separate thing.

[Anonymous No.10927203]

>>10927197
SGI was an American company.

[Anonymous No.10927293]

>>10927191
>you know what I'm talking about when I say movement relative to camera rotation, right?
You don't even know what rotation means. There is no full circular motion control of the camera in mario 64 unless mario stands still.
>When the camera faces north, and I hold left, the player character runs west.
Marathon and and Descent had been doing that years before mario 64, and more importantly, with fully independent camera controls. In modern games, movement and camera are independent from each other, yet in Mario 64 camera movement isn't independent from the character's movement. It rotates and bounces all over the place as Mario jumps and runs left and right and there's no way to control it. It's considered disorienting for modern standards.
>inb4 strafing doesn't count
t*ndies sure love cherrypicking everything to win the argument.
>Every modern third person game uses this movement. Ubisoft open world games, Rockstar's GTA, every Souls clone.
Are we going to say that Star Wars Dark Forces 2 was influenced by Mario 64 now? Or pretend that Max Payne's creators never said their game was influenced by Tomb Raider?
>Fade to Black, Tomb Raider, and Croc use tank controls.
Who said anything about those game's control scheme influencing anything modern? However, the manual camera movement and camera perspective became the basis for modern games. Modern game controls themselves were all influenced by Descent, a 1995 game that sold over 1 million copies.
>I can't name many modern games that use this type of movement
You mean Mario 64? Yeah, it's dead.

[Anonymous No.10927296]

>>10927203
SGI only designed the hardware. Software Creations, Rare, and Argonaut handled the software side of things.

[Anonymous No.10927332]

>>10927293
you might be clinically retarded

[Anonymous No.10927338]

>>10922182
Talent+ambition+budget
Not every dev needs a decade's worth of barely functional games to finally understand how to make something worthwhile.

[Anonymous No.10927373]

>>10927332
you might have no argument

[Anonymous No.10927552]

>>10922182

[Anonymous No.10929463]

>>10927293
>and there's no way to control it.
Do stupid people actually believe this?

[Anonymous No.10929481]

>>10922249
3D technology has existed since the early 1980s, so plenty of people definitely had experience working with it. It just wasn't until the mid 90s that it was cheap enough to put on home consoles.

[Anonymous No.10929519]

Their whole attitude was make Mario fun to control first, and build the rest of the game around that.
A lot of developers struggle with that even now, for some reason. So many games just control kind of shitty, for no reason. Kojima loves his games having the most confusing arcane button combinations, just to do stuff that should be effortless.

[Anonymous No.10929528]

>>10929519
Also, if anything modern games have gone backwards, with how everything is some kind of contextual input, where you hold down a button, instead of just pressing it. I do not understand why that happened. Leads to so much awkward fiddling, just to make the game do what you want it to do. it's not like modern controllers have a lack of buttons either.

[Anonymous No.10929605]

>>10926664
>Doing the same 3 lifts at the gym thousands of times is not going to spur a creative spark in someone to create a new workout routine or develop a new type of exercise.
What do you think Super Mario Bros levels are? Nintendo has made 1000s of levels at this point, all virtually the same when you break it down into small "1 screen" size challenges (which are then stitched together into one longer level). That's how you get creative, by doing the same thing over and over to attain mastery.

[Anonymous No.10929764]

>>10927193
>>10929463
>there are 3 camera modes, that means you can control the camera like in modern gaems!!1!
holy nintencope

[Anonymous No.10929813]

>>10922182
Nintendo rejected a Croc prototype only to copy it and make shit 64 out of it so they could pretend they invented 3D platformers

[Anonymous No.10930493]

>>10926769
>>10927090
Did You Know Gaming talked about this topic too.

https://youtu.be/A7II7Xns3No?t=860

Basically there's not much evidence that this event even occurred, a bit problem is that the story of the event keeps changing every time he tells it.

[Anonymous No.10930502]

>>10927552
>controllable 3d camera
i thought hideo kojima invented that

[Anonymous No.10930538]

>>10922182
>first attempt
They literally redid the game from the ground up multiple times. The Luigi multiplayer build and the 1995 one were only two of the various trial and errors they had before ending with the final version.
And considering the Yoshi Island "beta" from the leak that was pretty much an almost complete game, it's very likely this was standard procedure for all their big games. Which makes me sad we know jackshit about most of them.

[Anonymous No.10930658]

>>10924038
This level design is more three-dimensional than most PS1 and Saturn games by the way. Nintendo was always ahead, even on SNES technology. And then Mario 64 was the next logical step after this. Get over it.

[Anonymous No.10930687]

>>10924038
>>10930658
Cybermorph on Atari Jaguar had more complex level design in 1993. Star Fighter on 3DO had fully destructible environment and terrain deformation in 1995. Argonaut had made more complex open world flight combat simulation games in the 80s, Starglider and Starglider 2, long before they got acquired by nintendo and told to make simpler games for babies.

[Anonymous No.10930791]

>>10930493
>DYKG
Please stop referring to that shit channel who’s had multitude of inaccuracies and out right lies. Whenever these shit heads make a vid someone has to make a thread here about it

[Anonymous No.10932393]

>>10930791
Yeah but that segment in particular has no spotted inaccuracies so far and it's the closest anyone has gone trying to actually investigate it's claims, which was relevant to the discussion. Until new evidence comes to light to perhaps give validity to the claims there's not much evidence to believe in it currently.

[Anonymous No.10932530]

>>10922249
>president
how do you even make this typo for precedent

[Anonymous No.10932536]

>>10926709
vidya being iterative makes sense but not anime (unless you mean the animation itself)

[Anonymous No.10932790]

>>10932393
I honestly just believe that Star Fox 2 is the logical foundation of Mario 64, regardless of whatever else was happening behind the scenes.

My reasoning is from playing the game. >>10924038, it creates open environments with simple tasks. The primary difference is that Mario 64 has a lot more subtext, better controls, better everything really.

[Anonymous No.10932849]

>>10922249
People in the 90s and earlier used to actually be competent and good at their jobs. I know this seems miraculous to zoomers but it was true.

[Anonymous No.10933421]

>>10932530
phoneposter

[Anonymous No.10933472]

>>10932530
it's a blessing in the skies

[Anonymous No.10933630]

>>10932536
anime plots definitely build on each other, some series are remixes of other series

[Anonymous No.10933631]

>>10930687
person you replied to btfo

[Anonymous No.10933645]

>>10927552
uh supa mario buraza's was based on pac land you freakin' NOOB, heh rekt

[Anonymous No.10933690]

>>10929481
WE GOTTA MOVE THESE COLOR TVS

[Anonymous No.10933758]

>>10924837
yeah the ocarina of time pc port has a "remove fog" option because the developers thought it was enough of an issue to remove it. not that it is an issue, and removing the fog kinda fucks up the atmosphere of some parts. but I'm just saying that it's definitely a thing in that game, and several other n64 joints. body harvest and turok come to mind

[Anonymous No.10933802]

Nintendo is an evil company and miyamoto is the devil

[Anonymous No.10934597]

>>10932530
midas whale go full retard if you're gonna fuck up

[Anonymous No.10934680]

>>10926681
You ask any dev who has ever worked on ANY project that had a deadline if the code was as good as they could possibly make it and they'll all talk your ear off about what they wish they could have changed if they just had a little more time. I guarantee you the programmer of Mario64 would tell you that he was well aware the sub was running a physics loop every frame but what he had was 30 other jobs to finish before friday and the slow code was currently NOT crashing and 20fps in 1995 was certainly not considered slow so he moved on with his day.
That dude you are referring to who fixes Mario64 spent days doing nothing but grinding the most optimal sin/cosine transform routine to speed up the animation system, writing scripts to automate the testing and determine algorithmically the 3 sets of optimisations working in tandem that would yield the best results. You do that in a professional environment and you'll be in the big office having to explain why the king bobomb fight still isn't in and why the rabbit still doesn't run around the field, and why the swimming wasn't changed to the way Miyamoto asked for it to be done.

[Anonymous No.10934698]

>>10933758
There are two kinds of fog in 90s 3D. The kind that was used to add depth blending to add atmosphere to a scene and the kind that was used to mask distance culling to improve performance.
Turok/Body Harvest are known for having the second kind. They had poor performing engines that had to aggressively cull geometry to keep the speed up. OoT uses it far more for atmosphere though. There is very little distance culling, mostly just distant enemy models and not level geometry. Removing the fog just flattens the rendering but some people are so dead set on "fog=bad" that you have to give them the option to remove it.

[Anonymous No.10934728]

>>10922182
I mean, it shows. It's not a very good game and may be the most overrated tendie game in existence.

[Anonymous No.10935267]

>>10926683
This guy uses the assisted pullup machine as a leg press.

[Anonymous No.10935282]

>>10922182
They used black magic.

[Anonymous No.10935349]

>>10922201
>>10922219
>>10923719
>>10923789
Here come the Crocfags at full force.

[Anonymous No.10935634]

>>10933802
Nintendo is an evil company but miyamoto is an angel.

[Anonymous No.10935648]

>>10924881
This. I tried it on Switch and it was unplayable because of the framerate.

[Anonymous No.10938106]

Honing, crafting and perfectionism.