Difficulty Spikes

[Anonymous No.10836447]

What are some examples of difficulty spikes in retro videogames?

[Anonymous No.10836465]

Battletoads is pretty manageable until the damn Turbo Tunnel

[Anonymous No.10836468]

[Anonymous No.10836476]

>>10836465
Even when you're in the easy parts you can tell that sooner or later the game's jankiness is gonna bite you in the ass

[Anonymous No.10836487]

>>10836476
>jankiness
code word for "I'm bad at the game"
no one called battletoads jank until zoomers got filtered by it

[Anonymous No.10836498]

>>10836487
Battletoads sucks brah

[Anonymous No.10836517]

>>10836487
>no one called battletoads jank
Yeah they called it shit. I'm being kind

[Anonymous No.10836528]

>>10836447
Memorization isn't difficult it's just tedious and lazy

[Anonymous No.10836535]

>>10836447
Meanwhile the Genesis version devs be like
>Oh I guess the Magic Carpet level turned out too tough, let's just make it a bonus level or whatever

[Anonymous No.10836559]

>>10836535
I remember it being a required level that you could die in.

[Anonymous No.10836567]

>>10836528
If it's "tedious" for you, that just means you aren't good enough to avoid excessive repetition, so it IS difficulty my man.

[Anonymous No.10836570]

>>10836465
>he thinks the turbo tunnel is the difficult spike

[Anonymous No.10836579]

>>10836559
Nope. The level gives you three tries iirc, and just skips if you die thrice. To be fair it's not really a "bonus level" either because you lose the lives for real.

[Anonymous No.10836595]

>>10836570
Nta but, well, it's safe to say it's one of the difficulty spikes in the game in the documented fact that many players got stuck there for a while or even quit altogether. The irony though is that it's an infamous level but actually fair on its own terms (and even fun when you "get" it), while some of the other spikes in the game are just poorly designed bullshit that are mostly just boring even when mastered.

[Anonymous No.10836605]

>>10836468
This is the boss designed to kick you off the cabinet unless you keep credit-feeding your way to victory. All the later bosses are tough but don't have the total bullshit of Sodom's unstoppable hitboxes.

[Anonymous No.10836641]

>>10836468
Sodom is actually way harder on the SNES version.
In the arcade version he's a total pushover.
You can easily throw him into the corner. Then you time your jump to beat either the dash attack or his delayed wakeup, if he does either you can throw him back to the corner again.

In the SNES version, however, this doesnt work because Sodom has more invicibility. This is easy to notice when you walk through him when trying a grab. The best strategy on the SNES, that also works on the Arcade version, is to throw him to the middle of the ring and knock him down with Superjoy, this makes him drop the sword and gives enough space to react.

Now, due to how item pickups work, you're completely invincible during this action, so you can do the same with his Katana. As soon as he dashes towards you, pickup the dropped sword (you'll be invicinble) and you'll grab him out of the dash.
Sodom is noticeably weaker to throws/holds, so do 2 hold attack and throw him to any side. This also makes Sodom drop his other sword. Time the sword pickup correctly, again, and repeat the process until he's done for.

This is the ONLY reliable way to defeat him on the SNES version without taking risks.

[Anonymous No.10836738]

>>10836567
Show me someone beating this level on their first ever attempt. Do that and then you can argue that it's a skill issue.

[Anonymous No.10836749]

>>10836738
Why would that scenario act as a baseline to determine a game is well designed for anybody except zoomers raised on casual mobile games?

[Anonymous No.10836763]

>>10836749
Because it's impossible you retard. Nobody could ever in a million years complete this level on their first attempt because you have to know the level layout. It's not skill based.

[Anonymous No.10836782]

[Anonymous No.10836785]

>>10836763
Yeah, thanks for making clear exactly what skill issue is in operation here lmao

[Anonymous No.10836806]

>>10836785
>Memorization is skill
Oh you're a speedrun autist. Carry on then buddy.

[Anonymous No.10836895]

>>10836567
>my man
Zoomerfag

[Anonymous No.10837408]

Wario's castle

[Anonymous No.10837535]

>>10836447

[Anonymous No.10837539]

>>10836447
Came in here to say this: >>10836465

[Anonymous No.10837626]

>>10836738
>>10836763
Not who you're arguing with but I did. I can't show it because I don't record my gameplay and there's no second first times.
>Try to stay centered within the gap between the top and bottom surface. Don't ride the walls.
>Oh, the lava moves forward. I move faster than it does so I can push forward when I have to.
>Don't hug the right edge of the screen so I can still react to upcoming walls.
>SHIT SUDDEN BOULDERS DODGE DODGE
>The end? Already? No gems?
That's what I was thinking when I did it.

[Anonymous No.10837691]

I played this game for the first time last year and I don't remember having trouble with this part. Maybe I died once or twice? It's really simple, you just need to stay in the middle of the screen and then avoid the rocks by going up, going down, going up, going down. The level doesn't even try to trick you, it's always up, followed by down, and repeat, it's not like at some point it shifts and demands you to abruptly go down twice in a row; besidies the sloped terrain is really progressive so you have time to realize the direction you're supposed to take.

You see the thing is, those games went made with the mentality that players either already got good, or are willing to get good without crying about it. If you want to play old games you need to understand and have this mentality because you'll never enjoy old action games otherwise. I suggest playing a few NES games like Adventure Island, 1943, Ghost'n Goblins or Castlevania, and a puzzle game like Adventure of Lolo 2 or Moia Kun.
A puzzle game may seem unrelated but on the contrary it is very important because getting good isn't just a matter of being able to execute something, it's also being able to realize when you're doing something wrong, to question yourself, to assess all the possibilities the game has to offer, and to be able to try those other possibilities rather than being obstinate into trying something in a way that doesn't work. So many players will die on something, perhaps even multiple times, and yet keep attempting the challenge the exact same way that got them dead. Someone who got good won'tneed to die more than once before realizing "this doesn't work" and finding another tactic, and someone who really got good won't need to die at all. Puzzle games teach this mentality.

[Anonymous No.10837810]

>when the whole game is a difficulty spike

[Anonymous No.10838074]

>>10836570
I get that Battletoads is OOPS ALL DIFFICULTY SPIKES but yeah the Turbo Tunnel is the first one.

[Anonymous No.10838107]

Battletoads opinions then
>fun addictive challenging gameplay!


Battletoads opinion now
>artificial difficulty! how were you supposed to know! muh rentals!

[Anonymous No.10838134]

>>10838107
Critics loved Battletoads but I do think there's a disconnect between their opinions and the opinions of the kids who actually played it. I certainly LIKED Battletoads but I did not love it like I did Mario, Mega Man, TMNT etc. It's not entirely surprising to me the series fizzled out so quickly and was only revived because it became a meme.

[Anonymous No.10838541]

>>10836447
bomberman fantasy race reverse races

[Anonymous No.10838561]

>>10838107
Critics are biased.

[Anonymous No.10838629]

[Anonymous No.10838632]

>>10838629
And...

[Anonymous No.10838634]

>>10838632
Should have just posted Dark Wizards

[Anonymous No.10838642]

>>10838634
It's not just them though. There are enemies that petrify, enemies with breath attacks, damage tiles, and a boss that's all but guaranteed to insta-kill at least one party member. It's pretty much the last major spike in the game, unless you count Warmech.

[Anonymous No.10838654]

>>10838629
Good choice, this is a major wake up call. If you don't max out your potions you're pretty much fucked here. FF actually gets quite a bit easier later on once you pick equipment that let you cast spells at no cost.

[Anonymous No.10838679]

the randomness of the burrowing popup enemy is very demoralizing that late in the game.

[Anonymous No.10838691]

>>10836468
his name is sodom for a reason.

he's a fag.

[Anonymous No.10838729]

This cheeky MOTHERfucker wakes up if you're LV.25 in Magicant, and has the privilege of guarding the sixth melody. I didn't know that at the time and somehow grinded long enough to be able to beat him in the very first visit. Most people save his melody for last and treat him as the real final boss.

[Anonymous No.10838779]

>>10838729
Based

[Anonymous No.10838827]

>>10837810
fuck who ever play tested that abortion

[Anonymous No.10838916]

>>10837626
Why are you lying to me on an anonymous forum?

[Anonymous No.10839061]

>>10836465
It's funny because the second scrolling section with the surfboards is a whole lot easier

[Anonymous No.10839074]

>>10836782
>difficulty spikes
Thanks for the laugh. Ever play the first GB Mega Man? Death by spikes is a common thing in that since you can't fucking see them coming. The devs really didn't take the screensize into consideration until the 3rd one.

[Anonymous No.10839081]

>>10838916
Why are you being a faggot in a “no faggots” area, faggot?

[Anonymous No.10839097]

Yeah yeah it's been smooth sailing til now but you fuckin better have been grinding and fusing, buddy. Oh you weren't? Well I'll see you again in a while when you're actually ready to fight, bitch.

[Anonymous No.10839163]

>>10839081
Lying about a Disney game is perhaps the single faggiest thing I can imagine one doing.

[Anonymous No.10839506]

>>10838916
I'm not the one claiming something possible is impossible.
Memorization helps but is not a requisite. Good reaction speed and a sense of positioning are enough.

[Anonymous No.10839616]

[Anonymous No.10839621]

[Anonymous No.10841220]

The first boss that it's actually HARD to beat. Magus can be cheesed, but this fucker is impossible if you don't know the game inside and out.

[Anonymous No.10841261]

>>10838916
Dude stfu, he's right, it's not that hard. SNES Aladdin is the game that people beat in an hour tops and go like "wait, that's it?". It's not The Lion King.

[Anonymous No.10841360]

Not sure if it counts but DK64 has some really bullshit minigames. People always say Beaver Bother, for me it was this one

[Anonymous No.10841492]

>>10841220
isn't that the point though? it's not meant to be beaten, for story purposes

[Anonymous No.10841519]

>>10841492
Yeah, but you have to fight two of them later and they are brutal if you're not ready for them.

[Anonymous No.10841523]

>>10837810
I can't believe I actually sold that game to a classmate lmao
I was stuck at the gorilla for a long time but the only game I remember never beating on that console was the first ecco game
I guess that what also because the game was in english and I couldn't really tell what they wanted from me at the time as a ground schooler

https://youtu.be/WcAHjSKcwOs?t=1463

[Anonymous No.10841539]

>>10841261
Yeah guess what dicklick I said that it's not hard in my very first post. I'm not saying the level itself is hard, I'm saying that anyone saying they beat it first try with skill is a gay liar. It's like someone saying they beat picrelated first try.

[Anonymous No.10841552]

>>10839097
>better have been [...] fusing
...yeah?

[Anonymous No.10841613]

>>10841539

That's not the same thing at all.
Memorization only helps in action games in that it gives you effective extra reaction time. if your reflexes are quick enough you don't need that help.

[Anonymous No.10841647]

>>10836447
Metal Sonic in Sonic CD
Gorilla Glacier and Kremroc Industries in DKC
Sigma and Velguarder in Mega Man X
And the second level of The Lion King for some horrible reason (I know why but it's still a horrible reason)

[Anonymous No.10841667]

>>10841647
I almost forgot. The infamous Quick Man lasers and Heat Man's vanishing blocks in Mega Man 2 (can technically be bypassed with Item 2 and Flash Man's weapon but are significantly harder without them)

[Anonymous No.10841692]

>>10841492
You can beat him, though, and get a gigaton of EXP. plus bragging rights. my autism didn't like letting him win.

[Anonymous No.10841760]

>>10841613
I don't know why you're even replying when your dumbass obviously has never played the game that the thread is about.

[Anonymous No.10841851]

>>10838916
>No that doesn't count!

[Anonymous No.10841881]

>>10841539
What part of the cave level requires memorization?

[Anonymous No.10841912]

Yeah, it's the final boss of the game but everything else is obscenely easy, then this guy kicks the shit out of you. Couldnt beat him as an 8 year old and was many years later i did.

[Anonymous No.10842048]

Slums of Xenobia.
>About twice the size of the maps up to this point
>Enemy units are better organized, most of which have flying movement
>A new obstacle (walls)
>A formidable boss with no glaring weaknesses
A major step up from the previous stages.

[Anonymous No.10842194]

>>10841692
But >>10841492 is still right

He's not meant nor expected to be beaten. It's still possible to do so but that's more of a super-hard Easter Egg. If you do the guy basically just goes "WTF? You beat him? Fine, then I will just twiddle my magic fingers and trap you in a laser triangle" and then the game progresses like normal. It's a fight where you are expected to lose.

Just like the stronger version you fight even after the twins where you literally can't lose that one, but it's also an Easter Egg if you beat him before the fight auto-ends in your victory and get "a gigaton of EXP/AP" from that as well.

[Anonymous No.10842219]

>>10836465
>Battletoads
kek even the first level is a jaunty beat em off. like just easy, but fun. then the tunnel is like fuck you. then the speed bikes is like something I only ever beat once or twice as a kid. with no lives left I didn't make it much further :( ... especially since I usually played with my kid brother who was younger and suckier. still is.

[Anonymous No.10842325]

>>10841881
Play it and find out zoomy zoom zoom

[Anonymous No.10842456]

>>10841539
Wait, you mean to tell me those were just one of eight set patterns? They weren't random?

[Anonymous No.10842493]

Descent 1 Level 6

[Anonymous No.10842609]

>>10842456
NES couldn't process true RNG

[Anonymous No.10842635]

>>10838642
Warmech was so god damn hard on the US version because of bad coding. He's noticeably easier on the original Japanese cart.

[Anonymous No.10842647]

>>10842635
How is WarMech different in the JP version?

[Anonymous No.10842797]

>>10841647
I think the spider boss in MMX is considered the game's first real spike.

[Anonymous No.10842828]

>>10842493
That mother fucker. The only way I beat him was by cheating in plasma missiles (which he shoots at you). I beat the rest of the game, and used to have a ton of fun in multiplayer, but never legitimately beat him in single player.

[Anonymous No.10842843]

>>10842456
It was actually supposed to be many, many, many more patterns, but typical story in Japanese retro games, it’s broken due to a simple programming snafu.

[Anonymous No.10842852]

Really the entire Witch’s Castle level, but I think many Secret of Mana rentals ended at this boss.

[Anonymous No.10842875]

>>10836447
Replayed snes Alladin the other day and I literally beat that stage first try
Easy as fuck but comfy game to finish in 30 minutes

[Anonymous No.10842920]

>>10842852
Yeah, this. SoM peaks early in difficulty because once you figure out you can spam magic, the boss fights become pretty easy provided you level up your spells a bit. That spiky tiger is a real bastard without any magic on hand.

[Anonymous No.10843854]

>>10842828
I think you are thinking of the Boarshead from Descent II

[Anonymous No.10843860]

>>10842456
Yes, and as I kid I quickly realized that and drew every possible card on paper. Thanks to this I would often clear an entire table on first try (it was either clear on first try, or second try; you can only guarantee to know which table you're on when turning over the 3rd or 4th card so it takes a bit of luck to clear on first try).

I also knew how to align stars perfectly every time in this mini game
and I also *thought* I knew how to get leaves every time in the mushroom houses, by going at them a certain way, but I don't know if I really knew or if I was just lucky

[Anonymous No.10843865]

>>10836447
Ryu firing 10000001 hadokens.

[Anonymous No.10845160]

>>10842493
Intel

[Anonymous No.10845196]

>>10836447
Rayman gets balls deep hard after Blue Mountains

[Anonymous No.10845852]

[Anonymous No.10845893]

>>10838679
That hallway is hectic as fuck, but the problem section is the mouths before this because I don't think there is a reliable way to not get hit if you get an unlucky mouth spawn.

[Anonymous No.10845901]

When the games goes into pure memorizor mode.

[Anonymous No.10846106]

>>10837408
The difficult level is actually appropriate, it's just that the game chooses to make every other level before then easy instead of ever ramping up. The game seems to be in this weird mid point of design where it might have been created as a traditional, linear Mario, but it was made into the format of an open ended non-linear game with saving where you can repeat levels to get unlimited lives.

[Anonymous No.10846348]

Jurassic Park on Genesis, it's so blatant they ruined the game because "muh game rentals"
>first two levels are challenging but fun
>third level is a nightmare mode unholy kaizo clusterfuck with instant death everywhere that requires trial and error and perfect execution, and the level is also like 10x longer than the previous two

[Anonymous No.10846361]

>>10838729
>This cheeky MOTHERfucker wakes up if you're LV.25 in Magicant
Or you could just PK Freeze Gamma which you learn with level 21 and practically instant-kills the dragon. I swear everyone who complains about grinding in JRPGs never does anything more than mashing the attack button instead of using the many spells and consumables that trivialize otherwise hard combats.

[Anonymous No.10846419]

>>10837810
I played that game so much as a kid that I had no issue getting by that level. The monkey part was tedious, but once you knew how to do it, it was just a matter of memorizing which monkeys to roar at. The ostritch bit was definitely harder because your timing had to be perfect, but I still managed it.

I never made it to adult Simba, tho. I made it to Hakuna Matata a handful of times, but never finished the level. The fucking log jumping on the waterfall was the bane of my existence; most of them fall so fast that making upward progress is painful.

That said, I don't think it's an unfair of a game as people make it out to be; the controls are tight and the game never really pressures you or overwhelms you with cheap bullshit; It's just really hard platforming.

[Anonymous No.10846856]

>>10838632
Ice cave is easy.

[Anonymous No.10846857]

>>10842635
What was wrong with the coding?

[Anonymous No.10846860]

>>10846361
Truth

[Anonymous No.10847002]

>>10846361
That's nice, but I said "first visit," aka I soloed with Ninten.

[Anonymous No.10847690]

>>10836465
>>10836570
>>10836595
>>10838074
>>10842219
wasn't the tunnel playtested by an actual child?

[Anonymous No.10849732]

>>10836447
I love that level in Aladdin. Minecart DK levels, too.