/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.1078478]

>The end of the god damn world is imminent
>HA-HA, TIME FOR CHOCOBO HUSBANDRY
JRPGs don't really make sense, huh?

[Anonymous No.1078490]

Video games don't make sense. Realism is discarded in favor of game design decisions. You don't harp on platformers that make water kill you instantly, do you? How about FPS games where picking up a plus sign on the ground magically takes the 10 bullets you just took out of you?

[Anonymous No.1078508]

>Why didn't he just use a phoenix down?

[Anonymous No.1078512]

Maybe that's why I like earthbound so much. It hardly have any side quests so you are just focused on the story

[Anonymous No.1078515]

>>1078508
Cloud is a cheap asshole.

[Anonymous No.1078543]

>>1078490
Then why spend dozens of hours building up drama when the whole thing goes tumbling down by schizoid mood dissonance like this?

[Anonymous No.1078547]

>>1078490
Then why spend dozens of hours building up drama when the whole thing goes tumbling down by schizoid mood dissonance like this?

When the game doesn't make sense but focuses on the gameplay (Doom, Super Mario or whatever) it's very different from a story-heavy RPG.

[Anonymous No.1078562]

>>1078547

That's entirely your choice. If you want to make the whole thing go tumbling down by schizoid mood dissonance, you're free to do so. Don't complain as if the game forced it upon you.

[Anonymous No.1078586]

>>1078547
so wait
let me get this straight
you found nothing wrong with
-cloud and Co being getting fired at by fucking machine guns and only losing a fraction of their life
-magical potions and cure spells that remove the dozens of bullets in their body
-the ability to magically ressurect as long as they had been to a mystical 'save point'
-a slot machine popping on the screen to determine what limit break tifa uses
-the fact that they can summon lightning through 'mana' regenarate this mana by taking a nap and NEVER USE THIS ABILITY as a free source of energy

Thats all perfectly beleivable. But a phoenix down not working on Aeris! You never bothered wondering why the security guards you killed or the bad guys at Shinra didn't use phoenix downs. No thats perfectly beleivable. As a matter of fact every character that ever died not using a phoenix is believable EXCEPT FOR THIS ONE character

[Anonymous No.1078591]

>>1078586
Except nobody's going MUH FEELS and BEST TWEEST EVAR over the fact that Cloud gets shot by a gun repeatedly.

[Anonymous No.1078609]

>>1078586

[Anonymous No.1078703]

>>1078586
Aeris' death was the stupidest fucking thing in Final Fantasy 7 (that I remember).

You want a kickass death scene that actually works, check out FF5.

[Anonymous No.1078843]

>>1078586
They learned from FFV that spells and items dont work on story deaths.

[Anonymous No.1078858]

>>1078508
>>1078586
When your character's HP decreases to 0 in battle they are knocked out, they aren't dead. Aeris was actually dead.

[Anonymous No.1078862]

>>1078586
Your characters don't die ever in combat in any RPG that offers "revives," they only get KO'd. Pheonix downs/revives/whatever that game's uses are nothing more than smelling salts. Poh-kay-mans got the terminology right...

[Anonymous No.1078878]

>>1078858
But see, that's a load of bullshit. I can be hit by guns, missiles, laser swords, elemental blasts, cosmic forces, and god knows what else and be 'knocked out', but if a chick gets stabbed from behind in a cutscene then she's suddenly instantly dead, with no possible way of saving her?

Yeah, bullshit. Just some crap they pulled out of their ass for the sake of story-telling, or more likely to make sure you didn't just Great Gospel your way through the whole game.

[Anonymous No.1078880]

>>1078862
Somebody needs to play Wizardry

[Anonymous No.1078887]

>>1078878
>But see, that's a load of bullshit. I can be hit by guns, missiles, laser swords, elemental blasts, cosmic forces, and god knows what else and be 'knocked out'

This is standard video game logic. The only way to accommodate your complaint is for either everything to kill you or for no one to actually die.

[Anonymous No.1078908]

>>1078880
There's also the first SaGa where you can only be revived X times before permadeath.

>>1078887
No, typically in games you can be utterly destroyed by something, only to come back a moment later to try again. That's video game logic, the world where you can get shot up, crumple over, and do it again a few seconds later.

The FF7 logic is more like saying that videogame logic applies, ie. normally fatal events will leave you 'knocked out' and let you come back afterward (with an item or other healing event), but with the additional rule that sometimes, fatal attacks are actually fatal. If there's no good plot explanation for why a fatal force goes from being a 'knockout' force to a 'you're dead forever' force, then I can only conclude that they just pulled her death out of their ass, likely to satisfy some story requirement or keep you from easily breaking the game, as I said before.

[Anonymous No.1078919]

>>1078887
"Standard videogame logic" doesn't mix with good storytelling. If you want to tell a good emotional story in a videogame that makes you relate to the characters, then they should at least conform to some basic real life logic from a lore standpoint. And if something happens that breaks those rules, maybe the characters should at the very least acknowledge that "something's amiss here, why doesn't Phoenix Down suddenly work?" and the writers should provide some explanation for that. That's how you tell a story in a game.

[Anonymous No.1078926]

>>1078703
>Aeris' death was the stupidest fucking thing in Final Fantasy 7 (that I remember).
What about the whole Yuffie deal?

[Anonymous No.1078929]

>>1078908
In FF your characters do die, once they are all knocked out. It's implied by you receiving Game Over. Your characters can no longer fight back and you have lost. Surely you understand that the fight you're seeing in FF game is an abstraction of what an actual fight would be like. In an actual fight you aren't taking turns, etc. This, along with the rule that you don't actually lose until your entire party has been KO'd, is just an abstraction to convert the fight into a system suitable for the kind of game they wanted to make. Honestly I think that your complaint is very juvenile, in that you're trying to use the combat rules to prohibit the possibility of actual character death in the story.

>>1078919
The problem here is not the story, but the fact that you do not understand how the combat works in the game. Phoenix Down is irrelevant because Aeris was actually dead. Phoenix Downs don't bring people back from the dead. A KO'd character in combat is not dead until you get Game Over. If you can't deal with combat being abstracted like this in the context of a story, well, I don't know what to tell you. You sound like an idiot.

I'm going to bed.

[Anonymous No.1078962]

>>1078929
I have no problem with death in the game, just that they do a crappy job of justifying it. Your claim regarding the Game Over in FF7 is flawed, because you can game over with just three people falling in combat, despite the fact that you still have several other characters in tow. Maybe your other party members just sit and watch, and seeing you all fainted, decide to give up the ship? The abstraction that you claim occurs in this game may be true, but given the imagery provided, I find it hard to accept. We literally watch these people survive a meteor being dropped on their heads. How exactly is a force like that an abstraction? I'd appreciate if you'd go ahead and explain your claim a little more, because it just sounds like you're making something up as a hasty justification, and the fact that you threw some pointless character attacks in there only further weakens your statement in my eyes.

[Anonymous No.1078973]

In Phantasy Star 2, if Nei dies in battle any time before the battle with Neifirst you can take her to the clone lab just like any other character. However, once Neifirst is defeated and Nei dies, the clone clown will tell you that she can't bring back anyone who isn't really human.

And that's it. She's gone for good. As a kid it made no sense to me. And since her equipment was made available for purchase on Dezo I kept looking for ways to revive her thinking there was some secret way to do so. I must have spent hours doing this. Trying all sorts of weird tricks. But no. That's it. She's gone.

Perhaps when Neifirst died and took Nei with her Nei's human DNA was damaged so badly all that was left was bio-monster.

[Anonymous No.1079325]

>>1078929
But in fact story and gameplay dissonance is the precise thing we're talking about here.

You know what's a good videogame story? One that actually follows what's happening in the game, and by that I mean that in general terms the rules that are elaborated on in the gameplay department are also applicable and valid in the story part. I'm not asking it to mimic every single nuance of the gameplay, but for god's sake at least don't make it completely contradict the gameplay rules within what's supposed to be the most emotional scene of the entire game.

Imagine a movie in which the characters are talking about things that absolutely contradicts what's actually happening on the screen, and is being serious about it. Got it? That's FF7.

[Anonymous No.1079370]

>>1078973
But you can ressurect her later with a Moon Dew later if you want. With it's well known trick.

She can also defeat Neifirst if you're good enough.

[Anonymous No.1079379]

>>1079370
But you can ressurect her later with a Moon Dew if you want. It's a well known trick.

She can also defeat Neifirst if you're good enough.

[Anonymous No.1079380]

>>1078973
But you can ressurect her later with a Moon Dew if you want. It's a well known trick.

She can also defeat Neifirst and survive if you're good enough.

[Anonymous No.1079435]

>>1079325
>>1078962

The masamune is a special sword, sillybois.

It's explicitly mention that Sephiroth is the only person in the world who knows how to use it.

It's plausible that the masamune has a hidden potential to instantly kill when used by the appropriate person.

[Anonymous No.1079454]

>>1079435
And why is he incapable of killing you when he strikes you with it in combat? This all seems to me that you're just trying to piece the plot together by pure speculation.
Apparently Masamune is the only weapon that can kill you. FF7 must be a really awesome place to live in, when the only thing that can kill you is a single specific sword.

[Anonymous No.1079473]

>>1078508
>>1078515
>>1078858
Sephiroth didn't hit any vital parts for her to be dead, she was just unconscious. Cloud drowned her.

[Anonymous No.1079518]

>>1078478
It wasn't THAT imminent.

[Anonymous No.1079548]

>>1079454
>get shot at fuckloads of times with battles with various ShinRa soldiers and goons

>lose some HP

>the only thing that can kill you is an over-sized Japanese sword

>but gun shots are what killed Zack

[Anonymous No.1079557]

>>1079548
>but gun shots are what killed Zack

Plot armor is only so thick. If you get shot a bajillion times in the space of five minutes, with grenades to boot, no amountof Mako infusion is going to save you.

[Anonymous No.1079580]

>>1079380
D-don't play with m-my emotions.

[Anonymous No.1079925]

>>1078862
This doesn't match up with the terminology of "phoenix down", though. The Phoenix dies and is reborn. You're using its down to be reborn as well.

[Anonymous No.1079932]

>>1079473