/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.1078391]

Hey /vr/. I recently read about a pair of large ads Sega put in Japanese newspapers over two days, in response to the failure of the Saturn worldwide back in 1998. On the first day, it was a battlefield filled with slain samurai and a tattered flag with the Sega logo, asking the question, "Has Sega been defeated for good?". On the second day, it showed the same battlefield, but with the samurai rising up to fight again, representing the soon-to-be arrival of the Dreamcast. Needless to say, this sounds like an amazing set of ads, but I have yet to find them. Does anybody have scans of the ads, or could point me in the right direction?

[Anonymous No.1079127]

Bump for interest: I've heard legends of these ads as well, but have never seen any pictures.

[Anonymous No.1079163]

Nobody cares about sega. They've been dead since the genesis.

[Anonymous No.1081232]

Bump

[Anonymous No.1081251]

Bump

[Anonymous No.1081473]

I'm interested in this...

[Anonymous No.1081485]

Saturn didn't fail in Japan.

[Anonymous No.1081538]

>>1081485
True, but it was a failure as a whole, and was crushed by the PS1 and N64 in worldwide sales.

[Anonymous No.1082801]

Why is it that, as time goes on, people are becoming enamoured with classic SEGA? Even people who were never fans (or even gamers/alive at the time) seem to be getting rather affectionate for them.

[Anonymous No.1082850]

>>1082801
I'd imagine there's a level of mystique to Sega because of the part they played in the console wars of the 80's and 90's. They may only be a shell of their former selves, but they still shaped a very galvanizing time in gaming history and played a crucial role in what gaming technology (though their blunderings cost them all the donuts). I think another thing that adds to this enamouring is 9/10 kids were Nintendo kids.

I personally was a Sega kid, and prefer Genesis' & Saturn's arcade ports over SNES, but in my older age and more fascinated with Nintendo now. Prolly the whole "grass is always greener" scenario.

[Anonymous No.1082862]

>>1082801
Subliminal marketing. The king is coming back.

>spoiler]2020
Dreamcast 2
It's coming
;_;

[Anonymous No.1082867]

>>1082850
Definitely that for me. Never grew up with many games, so now that I've got some extra money, it's nice to finally indulge the child in me. That being said, I don't think I'll ever end up picking up a Genesis, just because the shmups are what really draw me to the Saturn and Dreamcast, and... well... I like the shmups on those consoles better.

>>1082862
To be this good
took 20 years

[Anonymous No.1082913]

>>1082862
I'd rather have a Saturn 2.

The last thing I need is another console as loud as the 360.

[Anonymous No.1082931]

Because Genesis/Mega Drive was clearly where it was at.

One console SEGA actually did right and almost took over the world.

If only there had never been a 32x and Saturn had been 100% backward compatible out of the box.

[Anonymous No.1082934]

>>1082801
Nintendo kiddies come to the realization that Nintendo isn't the only thing that existed, so they get curious about the competition (because they're too young to remember it for themselves).

[Anonymous No.1082939]

>>1082931
I think their best solution would have been to release the Neptune (the 32-bit home console they had initially planned) and added a disc drive later on to compete with the PlayStation.

Sega was too far ahead, they had to do something or the Genesis would lose relevance, and they weren't ready for their next gen console yet.

[Anonymous No.1082942]

>>1082934
Maybe Sega should have stepped up their game

[Anonymous No.1082945]

>>1082942
They dominated during the Genesis era. SNES only caught up in sales towards the very end. Genesis was far more prominent than SNES back in the 90s, but /vr/'s amateur archeologists only have the numbers to go by because they weren't around, so they think SNES swept the floor with everything and Genesis was a niche console or something.

[Anonymous No.1082961]

>>1082945
I'm not gonna disagree with you, as I adore (and still do) my Genesis. It's just that all my friends through school owned SNES. Anytime anyone was at my house, they always lit up with excitement, "WOAH, GENESIS!"

[Anonymous No.1082969]

>>1082945
>>1082939
If SEGA had just stuck by the very successful Genesis, never stopped releasing and encouraging the development of carts and CDs for it and ate the losses while they put everything into getting Saturn where it needed to be before release and then blowing people away with a system that played the existing massive library of Genesis games, Sega CD games AND a whole new wave of kick ass Saturn games they would have won it.

The lure of the pre-existing library would have given them the edge they needed over the Playstation and then they would have had the market wrapped up by the time Nintendo dragged their ass around to releasing the N64.

Believe me when I tell you this would have worked. I was on the front lines at this point in the console war. I was a Playstation booster but if Sega had delivered the backward compatibility it would have been a whole different story, even with the 32x betrayal. Take that out of the equation and that's bank. Guaranteed.

[Anonymous No.1082979]

>>1082969
This would have killed Sony in Europe as well, where the Genesis was much more popular than the SNES already.

Also, no Saturnday bullshit.

But yeah, having it be backwards compatible for Genesis (it already had a card slot for memory expansions) would have destroyed the competition.

[Anonymous No.1082989]

>>1082979
>it already had a card slot
When I saw the leaked pics of the Saturn that made me so sure there was going to be backward compatibility I was ready to buy one since I held off on Sega CD. Finding out it wasn't broke my heart.

[Anonymous No.1082991]

>>1082961
That's because you were a badass motherfucker kid. I was too. The thing about the SNES, and the reason it's remembered so fondly among 90s kids, is because it was a system that was more kid-friendly, so more kids owned it.

If you talk to people in their 30s or higher that were gaming in that era, most of them are more likely to have had a Genesis than a SNES, because it was full of arcade style games and action games that had a more mature edge.

Plus blood in MK1.

>>1082969
I still don't think a backwards compatible Saturn would have been enough. Saturn's architecture was what really killed its developer support, it really needed to be a more simple unit. If they had architecture more comparable to the PS1, they would have nailed it. Also, had Neptune came out, that could have been their 2D powerhouse, and actually could have been a pretty cool companion system to the Saturn for fighters and such.

The problem with Saturn was it started off as a 2D ultimate machine, then they added 3D into the mix, creating an over complicated mess.

PlayStation did neither 2D or 3D well, but it was simple, which is why it had so much developer support.

Also, if Sega had released its games over here, it may have helped. Grandia was an FFVII-killer in Japan, but the Saturn version didn't even come out here.

[Anonymous No.1083003]

>>1082991
The architecture would have been dealt with by developers if the userbase was there. Isn't the PS2 a mess as well?

[Anonymous No.1083006]

>>1083003
Not really. PS3 is the only other Saturn-level fuck up I can think of, but Sony was too big to fall so they got their act together by the end of this gen.

[Anonymous No.1083010]

>>1082991
Makes me wonder, if the Saturn was a success, what gaming would be like these days. You'd have the killer 2D Saturn, the so-so PS1, and the mud graphics of the N64.

[Anonymous No.1083014]

>>1083010
Had Saturn been successful, I think the fates of Nintendo and Sega would have been switched.

[Anonymous No.1083023]

>>1083010
It's also likely FF7 would have been on the Saturn as well, which would not have been a small thing in terms of star-power.

But Sega would have fucked it up somehow. They always did...

[Anonymous No.1083028]

>>1083023
They probably wouldn't have released it here if it were a Saturn exclusive.

[Anonymous No.1083041]

>>1083028
We're on the "Saturn offered backwards
compatibility and/or was successful" train of thought.

>>1082991
I think they were right to give it 2D, as bad as it was. Would a 2D console have survived in '94? I really don't think so. The wind was blowing towards 3D, SEGA just had to make the best of it. Though perhaps an expansion slot would have been a better idea? Shit, that slot's getting a lot of usage in this thread.

[Anonymous No.1083045]

>>1083006
but the n64 was also kind of a fuck up in this respect, right? except Nintendo did it on purpose to try to prevent shovelware? so how did Nintendo's messy console with lack of dev support beat Sega's?

[Anonymous No.1083051]

>>1083045
Nintendo didn't fuck around its fan/consumer base with shit like the 32x and CD.

Then it didn't fuck around retailers with something akin to Saturnday.

[Anonymous No.1083052]

Dunno if this is on topic or not but remembering back to when Sega finally went 3rd party it seemed like the right thing for them to do.

[Anonymous No.1083057]

>>1083052
Depends how you look at it.

One one had we had a lot of SEGA games for the XBox that looked like a new home for them.

On the other, they fucked it up and now they're a laughing stock. They tried to turn themselves around with taking on Platinum Games, but by now they're both dinosaurs and gaming as changed too much for both of them.

[Anonymous No.1083061]

>>1078391
Here you go

[Anonymous No.1083067]

>>1083061

[Anonymous No.1083072]

When the Dreamcast was failing Sega made a Dreamcast game called Segagaga where you were the CEO of Sega and had to help your failing staff fight against a parody of Sony.

[Anonymous No.1083079]

>>1083072
Is the translation still coming along? I want so badly to play this.

[Anonymous No.1083206]

>>1083041
Nights is a pretty damn 3D game and there was going to be a Sonic game using that engine but infighting in the SEGA corporation ankled it. They were their own worst enemy.

>>1083023
Sega had all the Working Designs translated games - they were absolutely in the right position to be the JRPG explosion console but then Bernie Solar banned all that shit, of course thing were already going downhill by that point.

[Anonymous No.1083212]

>>1083206
The beta for Sonic X-treme is actually online. I'm sure you've probably seen the Youtube videos if you're aware of the game already. Dat soundtrack.
My modchipped Saturn I recently picked up actually came with it already burned as a test game, does anyone know if there is a level select or anything? The "Green Hill Zone" doesn't have much to it, couldn't figure out how to leave the area.

[Anonymous No.1083236]

>>1083079
There was a recent announcement that it was still in the works.

[Anonymous No.1083238]

>>1083212
I didn't know there was an iso. Yet another reason for me to get a modchip

[Anonymous No.1083248]

>>1083061
>>1083067
Anon delivers. Thanks.

[Anonymous No.1083258]

>>1083212
Isn't that not "Sonic X Treme" but just a tech demo of the engine used for boss battled?

I think the game you see in the videos, with the ice world and the like, is still hidden from view.

[Anonymous No.1083263]

>>1082969

>If SEGA had just stuck by the very successful Genesis, never stopped releasing and encouraging the development of carts and CDs for it and ate the losses while they put everything into getting Saturn where it needed to be before release and then blowing people away with a system that played the existing massive library of Genesis games, Sega CD games AND a whole new wave of kick ass Saturn games they would have won it.

Oh you motherfucker. I can almost taste it. It would have been incredible. That would have been a killer strike.

And maybe they'd be alive today. ;_;

[Anonymous No.1083269]

>>1083258
Fuck. I want to play those levels so badly, if you are right I pray it is leaked sooner rather than later.

[Anonymous No.1083274]

>>1083263
But it was still a 2D console, so it would have flopped on that front.

The wind was blowing towards 3D, and the Saturn was not good with 3D.

[Anonymous No.1083284]

>>1083274
But anon, that's obviously not true. Saturn has plenty of awesome 3d games, it's just they were mostly 1st and 2nd party.

[Anonymous No.1083285]

>>1083274
It could do 3D as well if not better than PSX. Just play Nights and tell me it doesn't.

It's the users that determine where developers go. If the user base had gotten established for Saturn just a bit better, there wouldn't have been room for Sony to get their foothold and full backward compatibility would have pushed the Saturn into that position. Trust me, I worked at Babbage's during this period and people were still spending over $200 on Genesis 2 + Sega CD sets. They would have DEFINITELY bought $299 Saturns just to play Genesis & Sega CD on but they didn't trust SEGA enough to bank on support for Saturn after the 32x thing fucked them.

I assure you this is how it was back then.

[Anonymous No.1083394]

>>1083061
>>1083067
So cool. Thank you very much!

>>1083274
>>1083284
>>1083285
While the Saturn was capable of great 3d games, it was incredibly hard to program for and use both processors. As of result, many programers chose to utilize one, which resulted in inferior results. I believe it also was severely limited in the polygons it could display due to the hardware design, but I'm a little hazy on that one.

Nights, as great as the game was, is one the greatest example of the Saturn's problems with 3d. It uses a lot of trickery to give the illusion of 3d throughout the game.

[Anonymous No.1083421]

>>1083394
Again, it doesn't matter which console is easiest to develop for unless you're looking for shovelware. The best games will be developed for the console they will sell best on. If there were twice as many Saturns sitting in people's houses than Playstations, Square would have jumped ship to them.