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/vr/ - Retro Games

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10773083 No.10773083 [Reply] [Original]

Nobuo Uematsu is a living legend and probably the best composer in the industry next to Koji Kondo, and he is absolutely right

>> No.10773096

>>10773083
Fucking based and I agree

>> No.10773098

>>10773083
Will never work so long as we need the ost to shut the fuck up so we can hear the world class video game voice actors

>> No.10773103

The future of video games, discussed in present is Not retro

>> No.10773107

>>10773083
With everyone dying lately, I thought Uematsu died for a second upon seeing the thumbnail.

>> No.10773114

>>10773083
>best composer in the industry next to Koji Kondo
lmao

>> No.10773125

>>10773083
Rather tame statement, should have been bolder and more inflammatory given his reputation.

It would also hold more weight if post-FFXI Uematsu wasn't so bad and lazy enough to have other people (mostly tasteless noobs) arrange all his compositions after the mid-00s.

>> No.10773126

As correct as he may be, this is not retro

>> No.10773137

Please. Like this fag has ever made something original or daring.

>> No.10773150

>nigga pretending he didn't just rip off Emerson Lake and Palmer.

>> No.10773183

he's right, but western devs are hellbent on making movie games until another market crash happens

>> No.10773196
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10773196

>>10773083
He's 100% correct and based.

Strong melodies are what vidya needs. Not purdy sounding Hollyslop.

>> No.10773204

>>10773083
This
Not everything has to be le epic marlel movie moment.

>> No.10773207

>>10773083
Is this considered movie soundtrack-like music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pB127zC76I .

>> No.10773208

>possibly in a decade or two, he's joining Sugiyami in paradise
I'm scared bros

>> No.10773209

>>10773208
*Sugiyama

>> No.10773210

>>10773083
Game music already peaked with Katamary Damacy, it doesn't need to develop further.

>> No.10773212
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10773212

>>10773208

>> No.10773215
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10773215

>>10773150
Ripping off Emerson, Lake and Palmer automatically makes you cool.

>> No.10773223

>>10773196
Modern video game soundtrack, btw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUijRYMDgiA
Another
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqDsy2oFjEI
Another
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfeLWYThNAk
Another
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xR6tgRnD7nc

>> No.10773227
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10773227

Video game music has been permanently damaged by OWA, and guess who wrote that.

>> No.10773295

>>10773183
Like Final Fagasy wasn't the definitive turning point movie games.

>> No.10773306

>>10773227
What did he order?

>> No.10773318
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10773318

>>10773306

>> No.10773328

>>10773295
Western devs don't give a shit about your weeb garbage.

>> No.10773412

>>10773083
He's 100% right. Shit, I think it's true even for movies themselves. Scores have gotten horribly boring and unmemorable. John Williams was a genius but nobody wants to follow in his footsteps, it seems.

>> No.10773416

>>10773412
*is
I can't believe he's not retired. Amazing.

>> No.10773423

>>10773103
comparing retro music to current music is still a retro conversation though

>> No.10773432

>>10773083
Koji kondo is a plagiarist lmao listen to more vidya music zoomie

>> No.10773436

>>10773083
Extremely based.
>Here's your generic epic background music, bro.
Nah, I'll listen to real music.

>> No.10773518

>>10773083
Idk man, I just finished cyberpunk and the music was a fucking blast. Also how it follows your actions is incredible, i dont think I have seen another game in which it was so seamless

>> No.10773523

>>10773083
Finally someone says it. Orchestras have their place (Shadow of the Colossus) but when Super Mario games have a full orchestra OST you know something has gone wrong.

>> No.10773526

>>10773518
Uematsu has no idea what kind of music is in modern games. He doesn't play any and his hot take is probably based on the fact Nier Automata music outsold all his albums combined. He's just another seething jap like Miyazaki who thinks Hobbit is about american imperialism.

>> No.10773528

>>10773523
Except Matio uses big band ensembles not orchestras.

>> No.10773530

>>10773412
>John Willians

Without taking him merit, he was 'heavily inspired' by Holst and Stravinsky

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Isic2Z2e2xs

>> No.10773543

>>10773412
Dunno what movies are you watching but modern cinema doesn't have orchestral music at all. You'll sooner find music like this in modern movies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYDrQWTQoWY

>> No.10773567

>>10773530
>Without taking him merit, he was 'heavily inspired' by Holst and Stravinsky

Every musician was heavily inspired by others, Beethoven was inspired by Mozart, who in turn was inspired by Bach, but does that devalue the work of either of them?

>> No.10773570

>>10773528
It sucks either way.

>> No.10773604

>>10773083
Moviegame music is designed to be unobstructive and in the background. You're literally not supposed to notice it. So, big surprise that no one remembers any of it. Most music outside of games is designed to catch your attention and be memorable, and all of the best soundtracks do that, too. There's just a delicate balance between overpowering the action in game and complementing it, and most composers either aren't good enough to find a tradeoff or they're too scared to take the risk.

>> No.10773641

>>10773083
>and he is absolutely right
people have known this since ps1/ps2 days when real video game composers were starting to be supplemented/replaced with corporate shilled bands and hiring people that have never even played a video game before.

>>10773604
> Moviegame music is designed to be unobstructive
true
> literally not supposed to notice it
completely false otherwise people like hans zimmer, harold faltermeyer, john williams and giorgio moroder etc. would be permanently unemployed.

the problem with gaming is that a lot of these studios hire musicians that are creatively and intellectually bankrupt.

>> No.10773698

>>10773641
John Williams style music isn't done anymore. Even Williams himself was chained down for the nu-wars music. Does anyone even know Rey has a theme? I'm sure you can find some fairyvoice zoomer on youtube praising it's technical aspects but it's not memorable at all the way all the OG themes are.

>> No.10773702

>>10773107
Every time I see someone post an image of a real person there's part of me that briefly panics

>> No.10773708

Frankly I prefer Noriyuki Iwadare

>> No.10773729

>>10773641
>hans zimmer
Peak epic bg slop. Retards are easily impressed.

>> No.10773736

>>10773083
That should say "ARE uninteresting."

>> No.10773750

>>10773083
>next to Koji Kondo
lmfao

>> No.10773765

>>10773736
It's already correct since it can be reduced to:
>music is uninteresting
He didn't say soundtracks. He said soundtrack-like music, which is uninteresting.

>> No.10773773

>>10773698
What even was the last movie to have a memorable theme? Pirates of the Caribbean?
Hans Zimmer works cheap, or something?

>> No.10773775

>>10773698
Leitmotifs are completely extinct now, it seems. Nobody wants to come up with music that you can hum to yourself in the shower.

>> No.10773779

>>10773773
He's been involved in enough big movies that the Hollywood in-crowd think that means he's actually good. Very similar to Jar Jar Abrams.

>> No.10773783

>>10773773
The Avengers THEORETICALLY does. You can pick out what's supposed to be the "theme song" and it's memorable because it's also a bit of an earworm but it's not anywhere near the level of quality of other theme songs.

>> No.10773789

He's just mad he's irrelevant since the mid-2000s. I'm 100% sure that if he composed the Nier music no one would remember it just like no one remembers his Neptunia stint or the dozen of mobile games he composed for.

>> No.10773794

>>10773773
>Hans Zimmer
>works
Pretty sure he has "apprentices" that write music for him that's why he didn't notice Pirates of Caribbean and Gladiator have the same music.

>> No.10773797

FFVII Remake actually does a really good job taking the OG music and making it work in a "movie game" sort of way. It basically alters the tempo, cadence, and instrumentation to match whatever the scene calls for without deviating from the tune itself. It shows that it can be done where you can still have character themes and shit in a modern context.

>> No.10773806

>>10773794
Did Hans Zimmer actually do Pirate of the Caribbean? I didn't know that.
That's surprising, because it's so memorable and filled with personality.

>> No.10773816

>>10773806
>Did Hans Zimmer actually do Pirate of the Caribbean?
No. But a guy that works for him did. Which is why I said he didn't notice they both had the same main theme lol.

>> No.10773817

>>10773223
Your point?

>> No.10773819

>>10773817
None of that is generic movie soundtrack music. None of it sounds like Hans Zimmer composed it.

>> No.10773834

>>10773223
I hate every track and will never listen again.

>> No.10773835

>>10773773
The Batman

>> No.10773841

>>10773819
exceptions to the rule

>> No.10773849

>>10773137
Like this post? I hear an note of envy at another's success. I bet his left big toenail clipping could out compose anything you could.

>> No.10773862

>>10773783
Yeah, the Avengers theme is really short. And it's just used every time they need a noticeable theme.
Consider this time in Infinity War:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49xWJJvpjzI
Pretty rousing, sure. But imagine that scene with an actual Thor leitmotif, maybe one based on this great track composed by Patrick Doyle for the Kenneth Branagh Thor movie:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHOcJVvlIhU

And just for the hell of it, a memorable scene where leitmotif is actually used to great effect:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lwJOxN_gXc

>> No.10773868

>>10773436
Game music should reinforce the theme anon, it does not have to all be charting pop dross. Is that what you want?

I'm not saying he is a genius on the level of composing greats but he hasn't just blurted this out. It's at least a philosophy to work by.

>> No.10773879

>>10773841
You just play shit games.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-dr4viC_hY

>> No.10773880

>>10773773
the last memorable movie soundtrack I can name is, oddly, another Hans Zimmer soundtrack, from Chappie. It's notable because it's Zimmer playing synthwave/chiptune stuff.

The baroque themes in the first Doctor Strange were also cool, it was the least garbage comic movie made in the last I dunno 20 years.

>> No.10773891

>>10773879
Obviously Uematsu isn't talking about your one-off FOTM indie games retard

>> No.10773896

>>10773891
Uematsu doesn't listen to game music at all it's just a old man screaming at clouds. He was banished into mobile hell more than a decade ago and is just bitter about it.

>> No.10773898

The only movie-like music I can remember is Uncharted's theme, and that was 2007. Also, friendly reminder the plagiarism-schizos need to get the rope.

>> No.10773903

>>10773891
What about Square Enix games that his old ass didn't work on?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jna9bvhdRE

>> No.10773909

>>10773903
I'm convinced that Automata and it's OST's explosive popularity is what he's referring to.

>> No.10773910

>>10773909
What movie does that sound like?

>> No.10773921

>>10773910
Dunno to me Automata is like a trip into 80s new age music. It's shockingly unoriginal if you like that genre.

>> No.10773924

>>10773903
I don't understand what you aren't getting. Of course there are always exceptions. You could sit here and post 100 individual tracks and that still wouldn't disprove what he's saying.

>> No.10773934

>>10773223
>Splatoon
Decent example but the nonsense "vocals" are clearly intended to be part of a meaningless background texture rather than anything truly lyrical.
>Hypnospace Outlaw
Solo indie dev.
Improvisational Jazz. Like background music in a bar. Good composition, but not very engaging.
>P5
Valid example, though the track itself is pretty fucking boring.
>Cyberpunk 2077
Perfect example of modern formless shitmusic that does nothing but establish a mood with repeated samples layered over each other for 5 minutes.

Final score: 1.5/4

>> No.10773935

>>10773921
So not the standard movie sound track music.
Not this stuff (which is what I assume we're talking about) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2SXKI3m14s

>>10773924
It's just an annoying old man complaint, and I'm sick of hearing those kinds of complaints.
>everything now is this thing I don't like!
>well, what about these things?
>THEY'RE THE EXCEPTIONS, UUUGGGGHHH!
No, you're just wrong.
You just want to complain because you're miserable, and you want to spread your misery to other people.
SICK of you people.

>> No.10773940

>>10773935
No idiot, it used to be the norm.
Plus half your exceptions aren't even exceptions at all you don't actually know what you're talking about. It's one thing if you actually understood music and understood the criticism enough to refute it, but you don't so you ought to sit the fuck down.

>> No.10773942

>>10773934
I mean, that's just an example of a Cyberpunk track I liked, and could remember the name of at the drop of a hat.
It's got metal music, it's got rap. It's got pop. It's got loads of stuff. Most of it original compositions as well, as far as I know.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Na1uVqwYTZk

>> No.10773948

>>10773935
>It's just an annoying old man complaint, and I'm sick of hearing those kinds of complaints.
It would only be an old man yelling at a cloud if there weren't some truth to what he's saying. I don't have to prove that every movie shares the same blue and orange color scheme to acknowledge that it's a trend. It's not like he's making it up that AAA games try to ape Hollywood movie scores. If you want to chase down your indies that buck those trends, more power to you. But those indies exist because there's a trend to buck in the first place.

>> No.10773949

>>10773940
Fine. Bring me the "movie music" you think everything sounds like.

Course any kind of music *can* be in a movie, so you win either way, don't you fag?

Suck a dick. Be miserable about everything. SICK of you.

>> No.10773953

>>10773879
Do composers seriously just not know how to write melodies anymore? Just meandering haphazardly over the scale isn't a melody.

>> No.10773958

>>10773948
>Nintendo, CD Project, and Square Enix are indie developers
You want some Sega games too? I could find something, I'm sure.

>> No.10773961

>>10773935
You're choosing to interpret what he's saying as "everything is bad now" and you're getting mad about it.

>> No.10773968

>>10773896
And yet there's a retard right here ITT proving him right with more than half his attempts to post exceptions.

>> No.10773969

>>10773958
The problem is you're pointing to shit that falls under the same umbrella but denying it does. Nier Automata isn't the counterpoint you think it is. Neither would Yakuza or whatever Sega game you want to point at. You're taking a deceptively narrow definition of what people are talking about.

>> No.10773971

This is what modern movie soundtracks sound like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL33Mvfxk8w&list=PLRW80bBvVD3W9avB0qtEyctl5GwkpyYYj
https://youtu.be/fbBlWNsyfUI?list=PLRW80bBvVD3VfkBqS77aR_rshgF81uBWQ
https://youtu.be/xZRTzm_-2-U?list=PLim3m5NnkYFdMycars1ka6aGBlaoK7uSM
I sampled three low to medium budget titles with three different musical styles.

>> No.10773976

>>10773935
Funny you link that song, The Last Story's soundtrack really sounded like it was aping Zimmer -- largely due to Yoshitaka Suzuki handling the arrangements, who does a lot of "Hollywood-esque" music. You'd think Uematsu would complain about him, but nah.

>> No.10773978

>>10773896
>it's just a old man screaming at clouds.
reddit

>> No.10773979

>>10773942
>I mean, that's just an example of a Cyberpunk track I liked
Yeah, exactly. You're not actually engaging with the argument at all you're just a faggot who got assmad for no good reason and using that as an excuse to advertise your shit taste in music.

>> No.10773982

>>10773969
How is that movie music? It doesn't sound anything like a movie.
Do you just want 30 second chiptune loops like the old days?

>> No.10773984

>>10773971
Three different "styles" but the same overall issue that Uematsu is describing. In lay terms there's not a strong melody to any of it. It's all atmosphere regardless of what technical style it falls under according to a music major.

>> No.10773985

This literally just sounds like he's telling people to experiment and do whatever they want with music instead of making every song sound like sweeping orchestral music.

>> No.10773986

>>10773969
>Nier Automata isn't the counterpoint you think it is
I'm sorry but Enya(which half the Automata OST emulates) appeared in a dozen of movie soundtracks.

>> No.10773987

>>10773979
>argument: games sound like movies now
>counter argument: not necessarily. Lots of them don't
>you: moving goal posts and getting mad
What do you want from me?

>> No.10773995

>>10773982
"Sounds like a movie" should be replaced with "scored like a movie." It's not that Game A sounds like Movie B. For that to happen they'd have to share a composer or there'd have to be a direct intent to copy. But the way the music is used, the way it's scored, the purpose it serves. THAT kind of thing absolutely makes it "sound like a movie."

>> No.10774002

>>10773986
Literally any genre of music will have appeared in a movie at some point, so the whole argument is pointless unless we can pinpoint exactly what we're talking about.
I initially assumed we were talking about orchestral scores that focus more on sounding "epic" than having a particular tune. You know, generic "movie music".
If that's not what we're talking about, then I don't know what we're talking about.
Some old man having a hurty ass about nothing, apparently.

>> No.10774001

Reminder that Uematsu took Swan Lake, renamed it and took composition credit for it on the FF2 OST.

>> No.10774003

>>10773987
>argument: games sound like movies now
False

>> No.10774007

>>10773982
Iconic, memorable melodies that are so strong they become tied to a series for decades. Something so recognizable if you played the first 5 seconds in a big room full of nerds a hundred heads would turn and say "that's that game!"

These melodies were incredibly common in the retro era and it has almost completely gone away. Beautiful girl voice with a slow, plodding guitar in the background >>10773903 is memorable only to automata superfans.

>> No.10774009

>>10774003
>"movie soundtrack-like music in games is uninteresting"
>He's 100% correct and based.
>Strong melodies are what vidya needs. Not purdy sounding Hollyslop.

Well?

>> No.10774010
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10774010

>>10773223
>>10773942

If you are going to give examples gives good ones at least. The radio in cyberpunk is not the soundtrack, is kind of a complement.

The soundtrack is stuff like this

https://youtu.be/bhF3O1xCBW4?si=u1XxSL7-bQeslIDY

Which is fucking great given the context of the game. The cello version fits even better with the oriental themes (legit I believed it was an erhu.)
https://youtu.be/AGsjA1pXajk?si=G_UtNSqu3Sl0hG5i

Something interesting of the game is the wide range of music and the relatioship of the MC with it trough silverhand. You have the EDM i just posted and something like this
https://youtu.be/As5DEpktayU?si=8vixL7DrNlOMFqnA
And neither feel out of place.Hell, even ponponshit fits the enviroment

If have a lot of respect by Uematsu but the is speaking out of his ass here

>> No.10774024

>>10774010
There was no requirement the music had to be "good" (read: to your personal tastes).
How is metal standard movie music? It's very rarely used in movies.

>> No.10774023

>>10774009
I'm not seeing the part where anyone said "games sound like movies now".

>> No.10774025

>>10773982
What people really want is a game with one of two things:
1) A strong leitmotif. Mario Galaxy is an example of a modern(ish) game that pulls this off while also being orchestral. It doesn't "sound like movie music" in the modern colloquial sense.

2) Strong noticeable shifts in style. Like how games would have stage themes that could be in entirely different genres and the "score" wouldn't attempt to blend anything. You'd just walk into a new area and *bam* new music. There's no functional reason games can't still do that sort of thing. They just don't want to.

>> No.10774026

>>10773083
He's right. Love his work too, but he's a close second to Yuzo Koshiro.
>>10773103
We'll look who it is, it's the fucking hall monitor.

>> No.10774034

>>10774023
It's clearly implied. Why else make the comment?

>> No.10774038

>>10774025
Loads of games do that.
Literally any platformer, for starters, which is a genre they do still make, despite people thinking it's some archaic dead 90's thing.
When did Crash 4 come out? Like two years ago? When did Mario Wonder come out?

>> No.10774040

>>10774034
Implied by what? A random out of context quote from a tweet?

>> No.10774042

>>10774024
I dont mean is good or not and I dont particularly enjoy EDM. What I mean is that the music has a strong character based on the type of game and is far for conventional. And cp2077 is not a small indie game. Uematsu is speaking out his ass with the 'should try new things'

>> No.10774046

>>10774038
Something doesn't have to be extinct for there to be a trend against it though. Mario Wonder is intentional retro bait. I'm glad it exists, sure, but it says a lot that you have to mention it. That's the underlying meaning behind "the exception that proves the rule."

>> No.10774048

>>10774040
The only reason to say that, and then to post it on a retro gaming board, is so we can all grumble about how shit we think modern games are, despite not playing them.

>> No.10774049

>>10773949
>sounds like
It's not just about what it "sounds like." That's literally the problem. All music is to you, is sound to fill the air. Rather than just go through your gish gallop of examples, here's a single counter-example.

In Final Fantasy VI (composed by Uematsu), two characters develop a close relationship, Locke and Celes. Both characters have theme songs. Locke's is a rousing anthem that players are sure to remember (recalling Indiana Jones perhaps). It's one of the first character themes you hear in the whole game. Locke and the Moogles come to save Terra and his theme plays. Meanwhile, Celes theme is the Aria from the "Opera House" scene which is a major "set piece" event in the story. Celes' theme alone has been performed in concert:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGl4FqUeFS0

But here's the kicker: the two themes are written in counterpoint. So you can play them simultaneously and hear both melodies at the same time, which happens in the ending medley (starts around 8:09):

https://youtu.be/2v6G2_JLghE?si=dUUucr3_zgnteDa4&t=489

>> No.10774053

>>10774048
You don't have to play a game to listen to the soundtrack

>> No.10774056

>>10774046
Well, there you go. You have decided platformers are the "retro bait" genre, so they don't count.
Except, they're not, because they never stopped making Mario games, and they never stopped being popular.
It's a genre for normal people, and kids mostly. Kids still like that stuff.

>> No.10774060

>>10774056
Bullshit, that's not what I said. But you're telling me that a 2D Mario game is NOT enough of an exception to justify nuance? We should just pretend Mario Wonder and Call of Duty are both equal in the context of how music is used?

>> No.10774062

>>10774010
>If have a lot of respect by Uematsu but the is speaking out of his ass here
I doubt anyone ITT has even read the full interview to see the quotes in context.

>> No.10774063

>>10774049
I don't even know what you're asking for now. Game music has to do this specific thing that very few games have ever done?

>> No.10774065

>>10774060
Also, remember that we're talking about Mario here. Clearly a Mario game, ANY Mario game, will be wildly popular. But would some random 2D platformer be popular because that's the genre kids gravitate to?

>> No.10774067

>>10774060
Mario is probably an overall more popular franchise than Call of Duty.

Do people even still like Call of Duty? People only talk about the ones they made 15 years ago.

>> No.10774068

In Japan the trains play a different little tune for each station, so you know your station by the tune. Better games have situationally aware music where characters have themes, music is used to evoke emotion, etc.

It's probably obvious to him what the problem is but earslop that's just "each level has a theme tune" has been the rule ever since video gaming started.

>> No.10774076

>>10774065
Sonic still has a huge market, despite the actual quality of the games. Fall Guys is a platformer.
People still like platformers.

>> No.10774079

>>10774067
But we can't pretend that 2D platformers are popular with children because Mario Wonder is popular with children. The reality is Mario is popular with children so if there's a 2D platformer with Mario that's going to be popular. Those same kids aren't going to gravitate toward Shovel Knight.

>> No.10774083

>>10774076
I'm pretty sure Sonic is only popular with boomers now.

>> No.10774086

>>10773794
Klaus Badelt did the music for Pirates. He just came in for the sequels and ripped Klaus’ theme.

>> No.10774087

I miss catchy melodies so much bros.

https://youtu.be/mD4GbGmvNRc?t=32

>> No.10774095

>>10774079
No one is really trying to sell them Shovel Knight though.
It's not that rare for 2D games to still garner a young audience. Amongus is 2D.
A lot of it is marketing, and luck of the draw.

>> No.10774102

>>10773083
Not joking or being a contrarian, but what is he saying here? Is he saying that his own compositions in the classic final fantasy games are limited? Is he saying that modern game composition is flawed in some way that classic game composition was not? Is he saying the modern composition doesn't constitute an improvement over the classic composition, and therefore the medium is stagnant?

>> No.10774136

>>10774001
NES was the wild west, so this doesn't count.

>> No.10774158
File: 2.86 MB, 640x308, 1710310716181447.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10774158

>>10773083
He's not wrong. I can barely remember video soundtracks of the last 10 years

>> No.10774161

>>10774087
https://youtu.be/RYk0ZKRXxn8?si=8TsPO_jWI_CWK_Bt

>> No.10774295

I never even played the game since it looked like it sucked, but Far Cry 5 has an amazing soundtrack. I have no idea if these are actually in the game or not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_3_-UrhZH0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbqGvWIUgO4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW5kcUUu2Ac

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYtjpTLSmbM

>> No.10774509

>>10774026
>we'll look who it is
We will? I don't care who makes a post.

>> No.10774559

>>10773896
>just a old man screaming at clouds
Dude, don't spoil FF7 Rebirth.

>> No.10774565

>>10774063
>I don't even know what you're asking for now
My point is that you've taken a bit of general commentary made by a native Japanese speaker and reported out of context by a 3rd party as a clickbait headline, taken the implied criticism 100% literally and gone full autism trying to dispute what you wrongly perceive to be a strict assertion of fact.
>Game music has to do this specific thing that very few games have ever done?
It's an example of what one can do with real melodies and themes when you compose with an attentive listener in mind.

And example of more composition fun from a more modern game with retro music, here's some level music from the original Shovel Knight, a castle where an usurper reigns:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ao3clVneKk
And then here's the same stage from Specter of Torment, a prequel set when the real King still sat on the throne:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hBbSo5jyY4

Any casual listener can recognize that both tracks are variations on the same thing. And if you know anything about music you'll recognize that the main difference is that the Usurper theme is in a minor key, while the King theme is in major.

You can't really do anything like this when you're just writing music as background textures. At least, not in any way that anyone but the most hyper-focused music nerds will notice.

>> No.10774602
File: 33 KB, 1000x992, 71xvrZnqFIL._UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10774602

>>10773083
Based.

>> No.10774723

>>10774001
....which was and still is in the public domain so you can do whatever the hell you want with it. That's the point of the public domain.

>> No.10774850
File: 600 KB, 700x598, a.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10774850

The incest in Japan between composers that work on Anime, Live Action television and film, and Video Games goes back to the 80's. It's not new. It's as old as video game's with sound credits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IapdkILhY34
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5paR7kHEpwI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRegC1FB5gs

>> No.10774949

>>10773083
whoa, it's like everyone complaining about "ambient" soundtracks and "epic movie" soundtracks in games for the past 20 years were right all along

>> No.10775593

>>10774949
no wonder, most people in this thread failed to see the point

>> No.10775625

>>10774295
i think they're in the ingame radio station. from what i've heard 5 is actually considered the last good game in the series and probably the best one since 3 & blood dragon.

>> No.10775675

>>10773215
>Triumvirat
These krauts are better than ELP. They actually made really catchy prog tunes and didn't stick their own heads up their arses like keith emmerson and carl palmer. Greg lake is an alright lad though. ELP music is played skillfully but the composition and arrangement sound like shit innit? Triumvirat's the other side of the table.

>> No.10775990
File: 49 KB, 656x679, 1697102242653779.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10775990

If I cannot identify your game from a 5 second sound clip then I will not play it.

>> No.10776139

>>10773207
No, but it's also Kenji Ito and not Nobuo Uematsu.

>> No.10776145

I feel like the era of video game music needing to be boring movie trailer shit passed a while ago.

>> No.10776159

video game music used to be good.

>> No.10776164

>>10773604
>>or they're too scared to take the risk.
They're not allowed to take the risk. Most employers don't know a fucking thing about music. "Make me something like the Spiderman soundtrack," is the level of guidance a composer will get, and if they deviate at all from that then they'll just hire another composer.

It's much easier to write music for yourself, with your own vision, than for someone else. People who aren't composers just don't know enough about music to be able to offer real guidance or even tell you what they want.

>t. composer

>> No.10776168

>>10776164
But worst of all, they mostly just don't care. They don't care what you give them because it's not something they even think about.

One time, a client requested that I give him music that sounded like some movie, so as a joke I sent him an actual song from that movie as if I'd written it and he said, "this isn't really what I'm looking for." He didn't even recognize it.

>> No.10776181

>>10774068
The guy who wrote those songs also wrote the soundtrack to Romance of the Three Kingdoms 3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIO-HKO5zRo

Well, he's most famous for being in Casiopeia, but this is how it relates to the thread I guess.

>> No.10776198

>>10773982
>Do you just want 30 second chiptune loops like the old days?
*points at board title*
Actually yes.

>> No.10776202

>>10773083
He's right. The asshole who did the FF7Remake/Rebirth soundtracks sucked all the soul and charm out of Uematsu's works by trying to re-tool them as "movie-like" soundtracks.

And I am genuinely listening to the FF8 soundtrack right now. It's so comfy.

>> No.10776205

>>10773223
Also this is obviously what people mean by "movie music".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt_hTYfzr5w

>> No.10776228

>>10776202
I actually disagree on that. I think Remake does a good job retaining the spirit of the music compared to other games that completely butcher the originals. Things like how Advent Children completely shit on the music. I know it's hip on /vr/ to hate on every bit and byte of a remake but not every single thing is terrible. Advent Children was waaaay worse at everything. Another example of botched music is how Street Fighter keeps fucking up the SFII themes.

I also think the premise is a bit off. It's not that video games are suddenly aping move soundtracks. They've ALWAYS done that. It's that movie soundtracks themselves changed. You'll never hear something like the Superman or Indiana Jones march in a modern movie outside of deliberate thowbacks. Even individual composers changed. Has Danny Elfman come up with anything close to the Batman or Beetlejuice themes lately? Video games have always stolen from Hollywood. It just so happens that what they're stealing from changed. So Uematsu is right in the sense that there's been a shift but he's wrong about the reasons.

>> No.10776283

>>10776228
I'm getting too angry. I can't look at this thread anymore. Everything you wrote is wrong. It's so egregiously wrong that I have to go outside.

>> No.10776314

>>10776283
Good idea. Judging by your opinions you probably are a bit vitamin D deficient.

>> No.10776321

>>10776314
The only posts I've made in this thread are -

>>10776164
>>10776168

>> No.10776347

>>10776321
It was probably easier back in the day for a composer to unilaterally decide the atmosphere of a game soundtrack because there were like ten people on staff at most. And if they turned in one or two tunes that everyone liked, the direction would have been "great, more of that."

>> No.10776349

>>10773543
I think that was his point, that John Williams would use sweeping orchestral scores that we'll remember forever, and movies don't really do that these days.

>>10773604
>Moviegame music is designed to be unobstructive and in the background. You're literally not supposed to notice it.
You're absolutely right, and that's why I HATE IT.

>>10773797
I'll admit, I did like how the JENOVA theme in the Jenova Dreamweaver fight was just a slow, movie game version of it, but then you hit the last phase of the boss fight and BAM, the original JENOVA theme with modern instruments smacks you in the face.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zvHLGPpkO0

>> No.10776353

>>10773083
i mean i agree, but hes one of the big reasons almost everyone does that in vidya
which is kinda funny since most of his stuff from what i remember is this weird japanese version of emerson lake and palmer

>>10773150
he did it quite well tho
if you look at all the bad prog bands that tried and failed to do the same thing

>> No.10776371

>>10773083
Mm look at his face in that picture, you know he really means business.

>> No.10776781

>>10773083
Says the guy who composed the most hollywood sounding shit Japan ever put out.

rofl.

>> No.10776950

>>10773318
>no shish kebab
Shit taste

>> No.10777054

>>10773083
The problem with orchestral soundtracks in most games is that they don't match the aesthetic of the games at all. Imagine that super mario 3 had a high quality movie-like soundtrack. It would be completely jarring. All the media in a game needs to conform to a consistent aesthetic quality; whether it be in visuals or sound. (e.g., pairing the graphical presentation of smb3 with chiptunes)

>> No.10777171

>>10773196
More melody and staccato
More intricate counterpoint and structure.
Less 'edgeless harmonic masses moving ominously.'

>> No.10777173

>>10776164
Yep. Like I said earlier even John Williams is not immune. And if he isn't, literally no one is.
>>10776168
Kek not surprised. The problem seems to be that as every director says "make it sound like <movie Y>" which itself was already composed by someone who was told to "make it sound like <movie X>." So you're getting copy of a copy of a copy until there's very little left that is distinctive or original. Not a professional composer myself, but studied theory in college and have written compositions as a hobby.
>>10775593
Indeed
>>10776347
Music literacy and trust may have something to do with it also. For the original Star Wars, Lucas gave Williams various pieces of classical music as inspiration (which is why music in the first movie sounds so much like Holst and Stravinsky). After that first collaboration, they knew how to work together well. There's a clip of Lucas claiming his approach was to turn the final edit over to Williams and say "OK John, save my movie." (And whatever criticism you may have of the Star Wars prequels, the music in them is fantastic, Williams in peak form)

>> No.10777175

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6cSbof7Pik&list=PL40Ryfb7efux4o-vyWcHX5bIHko2EXvs6&index=5

How about the 80s XYLAPHON metal electronic demon sex boogie genre?

>> No.10777180

>>10776228
The reasons for this shift across ALL media is the internet. It was meant to liberate creative impulses, all it's done is turn everything into sludge. Everything (and I mean EVERYTHING) is becoming homogenized goo.

>> No.10777181

>>10773083
plagiarist hack
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuRRLNQTiS0

>> No.10777194

>>10777181
The song you linked sounds nothing like anything Nobuo Uematsu composed.

>> No.10777196

>>10777180
Rise of the internet and decline in ALL media and culture is definitely no coincidence. Pandora's box has been opened and 80% of the world is hopelessly addicted and now we can't stop this train to hell.

>> No.10777204

>>10777181
What's that supposed to sound like?
I hear a melody and instrumentation that sounds vaguel like "Corridors of Time," but not enough to count as plagiarism and Corridors of Time was composed by Yasunori Mitsuda anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXo3DrXHY8w

>> No.10777743
File: 119 KB, 1280x720, ZXOnch6yEqg-HD.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10777743

>>10776950
>missing the joke this hard

>> No.10777870

>>10777204
It's just some idiot bloviating about absolutely nothing.

>> No.10777945

>>10774723
Public domain doesn't mean you can credit it as your own composition you tard.

>> No.10777949

>>10776198
You had compositions in games far more complex in the 80s than what he ever wrote.

>> No.10777974

>>10777949
Unlikely. It's clear you're not actually familiar with his work.
Not to mention, complexity alone is a meaningless metric when it comes to music. You can make music extremely complex without much effort and it still sounds like low-effort shit.

>> No.10778036

>>10774009
Still not getting it. So yeah that's my whole point all along you fundamentally don't understand the topic. The only goalpost moved is that I originally accused of taking out-of-context quotes too literally but the closer I look it seems you didn't even properly understand everything already there.

>> No.10778301

>>10777173
John Williams being in a class of his own notwithstanding, it still says something that all his movies, though recognizably "John Williams," all sound different. You'll never confuse the Star Wars theme with Indiana Jones even though they're both rooted in pulp adventure serials. That kind of identifiability is what's missing. "Oh that's Guile's theme" or "oh that's the boss music from Final Fantasy VI" isn't something that you get as much these days. Shit just doesn't stick in your brain to where you can pinpoint the exact tune and how it was used in which specific game. Other than the main Avengers theme I can't even think of what the music sounds like in the various MCU films. What's Iron Man's theme? He's in every goddamn movie and I can't remember what his music sounds like. Meanwhile I can tell you Batman's theme, whether it's Michael Keaton or Adam West or Kevin Conroy. Hell, even the Schumacher films had their own leitmotif that's unmistakable.

>> No.10778421
File: 912 KB, 1280x720, image_2024-03-15_094228200.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10778421

>>10773083
I am not really sure what he means. There are tons of games with "movie" soundtracks that are phenomenal. I think the problem is just AAA games with zero talent studios these days.

>> No.10778569

>>10778421
Jesus, shut up.

>> No.10778592
File: 535 KB, 1024x576, image_2024-03-15_103808527.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10778592

>> No.10778739

>>10776181
That sounded really good! Got any more of it?

>> No.10778783

>>10778739
Yes! Here are the original and arranged versions of the soundtrack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QuUocjjJIM
Original

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVE__oPh3KAaBRyecpH1eYPjsxUUldVU_
Arranged

Koei games have always placed a lot of importance on music because the founder, Yoichi Erikawa, believed that complex scores greatly improved the experience. He often personally supervises the creation of the music. So many KOEI games have arranged soundtracks, even going back to obscure games from the early 80s, because of him. Romance of the Three Kingdoms 3 is just one of the many Koei games that used established composers to write the soundtrack

>> No.10779626

You're all gay. Post retro game songs you love.
https://youtu.be/qfr03aP3aac

>> No.10779712

>>10777743
Oh, a onions latte?

>> No.10779735

>>10778421
There's a plethora of talent but a lot of composers are beholden to whatever the video game studio wants from him/her.

>> No.10779738

>>10773083
Not retro talk
Also what do you think Mick Gordon does

>> No.10780062

>>10773083
Finally someone with a recognizable name said it. I'm so sick of generic orchestral tracks and Hans Zimmer crap. Both in movies and games.

>> No.10780074
File: 169 KB, 1570x1020, GGcJoodaMAA-FYZ.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10780074

>>10778421
>>10778569
>>10779735
>comparing Marty to Nobuo Uematsu

Marty kneels to Koji Kondo

>> No.10780104
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10780104

>>10773083
Here's my little story I always tell:
I got to see him live with his band at the time, the Earthbound Papas. When they went to play Dancing Mad, he made a joke saying that since they were all ojisans, they should rename it to Dancing Dad. Polite chuckles all around.

edit: oh shit he did it, the absolute madman actually did it

>> No.10780360

>>10773227
Thing is, for every OWA/Aerith/Terra/Red Wings he wrote, he also wrote a lot of weird, goofy 'videogamey' shit. Not everything has to be the VG equivalent of Oscar bait all the fucking time.

>> No.10780516 [DELETED] 

>>10773114
Cope.

>> No.10780520

>>10773879
>You just play shit games.
This should be a pinned post for this board. Retarded contrarians pretend everything modern is bad because they don't actually have the brain power to think critically and discover games that aren't just advertised at Gamestop.

>> No.10780609
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10780609

it's hard to write catchy melodies... it's easy to remix the lotr soundtrack for the 82734927th time...

>> No.10780635

>>10773083
BUT THE INVESTORS, WE NEED REVENUE

>> No.10780639

>>10780609
>hurrdurr meritocracy
You shouldn't have to be Mozart to get hired as a game musician.

>> No.10781732

>>10780639
Now I want a game soundtrack composed by Mozart

>> No.10781749

>>10780639
>studios should hire mediocre artists because reasons

>> No.10782331

>>10773083
Uematsu is mid as fuck
But I agree

>>10773098
Yeah, fundamentally how video games are made has changed
Music played a much larger role in old games

>> No.10782347

>>10773934
>meaningless background texture
Retard
It's obviously inspired by Alvin and the Chipmunks and clearly fits with the style of the game

>> No.10782353

>>10773412
>John Williams was a genius
God you're retarded
He was and is a huge hack

At least mention somebody good like Ennio Morricone

>> No.10782356

>>10773526
Nier Automata is garbage music
It being popular with some ironic weebs doesn't make it good

>> No.10782359

For me its Yuzo Koshiro, Yoko Shimomura and Kenji Ito

>> No.10782363

>>10773196
>what vidya needs
Is it just me or are strong melodies hard to write in general? Games with music that gets praised across the board are the ones with strong melodies. If it was easy to do, I imagine more musicians would do it.

>> No.10782365

>>10773528
It's still soulless as fuck
Too grand/epic and polished sounding and lifeless

When I think Mario, I think of Donkey Kong Arcade, Mario Bros arcade, SMB1 etc.
And when I try to draw a real life music equivalent I think of something like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WojNaU4-kI

Even Cuphead sounds too overdone and misses the point somewhat on this one

>> No.10782367

>>10782331
>Uematsu is mid as fuck
I don’t think I can trust the opinion of a person who says things like this.

>> No.10782370

>>10776168
>One time, a client requested that I give him music that sounded like some movie, so as a joke I sent him an actual song from that movie as if I'd written it and he said, "this isn't really what I'm looking for." He didn't even recognize it.
KEK

Did you point out to him that the song was from the movie? I know it’s not good practice to rub someone’s face in it, but seeing their reaction seems like it’d be worth it in this case.

>> No.10782371

>>10773530
Star Wars music was basically ripped off The Planets by Holst
Funny thing is that Holst wasn't even that great of a composer

>>10773567
>Beethoven was inspired by Mozart
No he wasn't. Stop talking out of your ass. You don't know what you're talking about.
Beethoven's style was way different and much more modern for his time.

>> No.10782375

>>10773879
Pizza Tower has an amateurish soundtrack that is full of cheap motif(basically the composer rehashing the fuck out of his one motif in almost every track)
It's really not good, and even the composer himself said he is a hobbyist

>> No.10782387

I think Uematsu's referring to Mitsuda's generic forgettable choralslop from Xenoblade 2 and 3
Mitsudafags will never admit it though, he peaked with Chrono Trigger

>> No.10782392

>>10774001
>>10777945
Tbf Uematsu probably didn't credit himself
The label just released the ff2 soundtrack and didn't bother to credit Tchaikovsky
I doubt Uematsu was even involved with those releases at all

>> No.10782393

>>10774025
>A strong leitmotif
No, FUCK YOU
I hate this garbage so fucking much
It's just a cheap way to rehash a melody most of the time

>> No.10782397

>>10774049
>Meanwhile, Celes theme is the Aria from the "Opera House" scene which is a major "set piece" event in the story. Celes' theme alone has been performed in concert:
This is just the Square-Enix Music label jerking themselves off, you know that right?
If you actually played more RPGs beyond FFshit from the 90s you would know that FFs music was nothing special

>> No.10782408

>>10782393
Why do you hate leitmotifs so much? When used properly they can help immerse you more deeply into the game’s setting.

>> No.10782410

>>10773412
John Williams is a cheese ball and the epitome of orchestrated slop.

>> No.10782424

>>10776168
>One time, a client requested that I give him music that sounded like some movie, so as a joke I sent him an actual song from that movie as if I'd written it and he said, "this isn't really what I'm looking for." He didn't even recognize it.
To be fair, was it an actual good memorable song?
Your client might have only remembered the good stuff

>> No.10782429

>>10774068
>earslop
Holy fuck 4chan needs to be nuked

>> No.10782431

>>10776228
>They've ALWAYS done that.
No they haven't.
The vast majority of video game music back in the old days were aping various pop music.

>> No.10782437 [DELETED] 

>>10777204
Corridors of Time itself was ripped off from some Joe Hisaishi track from Laputa

>> No.10782441

>>10777181
That's Mitsuda
Uematsu has plagiarized a lot of stuff too

>> No.10782448

>>10777204
Yeah that is Mitsuda
Uematsu has plagiarized stuff too though
Funny thing is that Uematsu plagiarized music from Mitsuda, the airship theme in FF9 sounds a lot like the Epoch theme in Chrono Trigger
One of Mitsuda's tracks for Front Mission: Gun Hazard sounds like Danger from Secret of Mana

>> No.10782451

>>10782367
You're mid, that's why

>> No.10782457

>>10782408
It's hacky bullshit to appeal to normalfags with no taste
Motifs if used should be subtle, used sparingly and done in clever ways

>> No.10782464

>>10782457
>done in clever ways
Got any examples you’d care to share with us?

>> No.10782508

>>10782464
Nothing that comes to mind immediately
I'm generally just not a fan of over-reliance in them and when a composer shoves them too transparently onto our faces in an ''epic way''
Sometimes the occassional game can get away with it(like the entirety of Super Mario World which is almost entirely remixes of the main theme but then again SMW has like 4 tracks in its entirety) but generally when a melody is reused over and over in an obvious way in a lot of tracks in a game it gets annoying and feels tacky, see for an infamous example Pizza Tower which most of the tracks just reuse the obnoxious main theme melody over and over in so many tracks, that shit is plain torture

Actually I did think of a few clever ones
1. Sonic Generations Modern City Escape incorporates the melody of Endless Mine in Escape from the City very smoothly
2. This is more of a cliche one but Chrono Trigger Lavos final boss theme, the way it incorporates the main theme into the final boss theme is done very well and not even intrusive

>> No.10782521

>>10773083
was this right when Contra OG came out? i think orchestrated soundtracks can be good, but it's just so lacking in a Contra game

>> No.10782523

>>10778783
Original was PC-88 my dude not Mega Dive

>> No.10782527

>>10779626
https://youtube.com/watch?v=yNMlBjab9OY

>> No.10782616

>>10773083
If Nuobo Uematsu is a legend in the East, then Jeremy Soule is a legend in the West.