/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.10735439]

When was their fate sealed?

[Anonymous No.10735447]

[Anonymous No.10735453]

>>10735439
wen dis happened, it can't be understated how huge Sony had became and how much mindshare PS1 captured. Dreamcast was out and yes it was cool, but everyone who bought an N64 or saturn in the last gen had PTSD and sure weren't willing to get burned again. Everyone was just waiting for PS2 to drop instead of buying the Dreamcast as it was considered a foregone conclusion that Sony would dominate again like they had with the PSX

[Anonymous No.10735484]

>>10735439
>When was their fate sealed?

1996.

I mean, don't get me wrong, the Saturn was very much doomed in the west by this point... but not releasing a true 3D Sonic title on holiday season signed the death certificate for their consoles...

[Anonymous No.10735497]

>>10735439
they never had a chance

[Anonymous No.10735509]

>>10735439
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_(console)#Background

[Anonymous No.10735513]

>>10735453
>as it was considered a foregone conclusion that Sony would dominate again like they had with the PSX
Also because they lied about the PS2 specs in "leaks" to make it seem more powerful than it really was and people bought into those lies.

[Anonymous No.10735526]

>>10735497
They had a chance. Scrub 32X. Release Saturn in the US in the Fall of 1995 with games ready at launch. Release a 3D Sonic platformer in 1996. Bring more and better versions of games from Japan to the US. Bam! Suddenly Saturn sells 30 million instead of 10 and maybe outsells N64. Sega's finances improve dramatically, Dreamcast gets released in 1999 or 2000 instead of 1998 and is more powerful, Sega sells 25 million in the 6th gen just like Nintendo and Microsoft and stays in the hardware manufacturing business.

[Anonymous No.10735527]

June 3rd 1960

[Anonymous No.10735602]

>>10735439
they tried way too hard to "bring the arcade home" instead of focusing on unique experiences you could only get with Sega.

Shallow arcade trash is fun for minutes, not hours. i have pounds of arcade bar tokens because people keep giving me their extras they can't be bothered to spend.

[Anonymous No.10735694]

The genesis was the only good console they made.

[Anonymous No.10735702]

>>10735439
The second 32x was approved

[Anonymous No.10735859]

>>10735439
32X, Bad Saturn handling accelerated it.
Next time just go check the archives, you'll have your answer in one quick search.

[Anonymous No.10736206]

>>10735602
>Shallow arcade trash is fun for minutes, not hours.
Not for me. It's addictive trying to get 1ccs in those arcade games.

[Anonymous No.10737852]

>>10735694
this.

[Anonymous No.10737870]

>>10735526
You conveniently left out the PS1 and PS2 completely

Honestly without Sony, they would probably still be making consoles

[Anonymous No.10738449]

>>10735484
They killed the Saturn with the Sega CD and 32X prior, but yeah even with a 3d sonic I still think they get destroyed in gen 5, the dreamcast is like a fighter comming back and having a good 1st minute of round 6 but still getting KOed by the end of the round

[Anonymous No.10738521]

>>10735439
When they were bought by Sammy, which only cared about Pachinko.

[Anonymous No.10738537]

>>10735439
299

[Anonymous No.10738546]

I’m I the only one that still has faith that Sega will one day go back to making systems again?

[Anonymous No.10738547]

>>10737870
I didn't. If there was no PS1, then Saturn would sell around 50 million in my scenario and N64's sales would also be much higher. Sega sold 60 million and Nintendo 80 million in the 4th gen.

[Anonymous No.10738550]

When OP posted this thread again

[Anonymous No.10738553]

>>10738546
consoles are useless and soulless now, wouldn't really matter

[Anonymous No.10738760]

>>10738449
I agree, SEGA CD, but especially 32x and Saturn, at least with its launch in the west, really killed their chances, but I think a good 3D Sonic could, not that it necessarily would, have been enough to give them a chance, they would've lost to PS1 and N64 in the west, but would've still done well in Japan and their loss in the west wouldn't be that bad compared to what it ended up being.

It might've made it so the Saturn had a decent enough holiday season in 1996, resulting in new excitement and hype for the console during the following years before the Dreamcast came out.

[Anonymous No.10738931]

>>10735447

[Anonymous No.10738936]

>>10735439
They were toast when the arcade business started to decline. People don't realize it but their home console division was a side hustle.

[Anonymous No.10738993]

>>10735484
They didn't want to make a 2.5D Sonic, so they made Nights.

[Anonymous No.10739157]

>>10735439
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/32X
Sums it up pretty well.

[Anonymous No.10739164]

>>10735447
>>10738931
Sorry i forgot to say FPBP

[Anonymous No.10739323]

>>10735439
Because there fucking retards with there finances. Look at Nintendo, they've had three failed consoles yet they turned a profit with all of them, in fact the only times there ever lost money was over manufacturing 3ds systems when it launched.

if they weren't such niggers throwing away money at dumb shit, they might still be around today.

[Anonymous No.10739390]

>>10735439
Piracy. Which killed the Dreamcast via driving away publishers.

[Anonymous No.10739424]

>>10735439
1995 when they launched the Saturn too early in the West, pissed off Western developers, and pissed off Western retail stores.

You would think Sega would have shown much more care and consideration since the majority of their funds and revenue come from Western sales.

But nope. Sega gonna Sega. They focused on Japan which was their smallest market.

[Anonymous No.10739436]

>>10735702
>>10735859
>>10738449
>>10738760
>32x

Nope. 32x was like Nintendo's Virtual Boy. A misstep. But not something that crippled the company. The 32x wasnt a full system and the investment was much smaller. Sega was also still making good money elsewhere.

What killed Sega was the mishandling of the Saturn. Sega lost hundreds of millions of dollars with the failure of Saturn. They over-invested most of their reserve funds into the Saturn's developmeny thinking it would be a smash hit. It's failure worldwide was an unbelievable massive gut punch that brought Sega to its financial knees. Sega never recovered from the loss.

The Saturn's failure put Sega in deep debt and directly influenced why the Dreamcast was made so cheaply. Sega didn't have the money. Many Sega Executives on the board didn't even want to make another console after Saturn's failure. They thought it would better financially to focus on being a Third Party Game Developer and focus on console games and arcade machines. The financial damage was THAT bad.

[Anonymous No.10739445]

>>10735439
About 30 years ago.

[Anonymous No.10739448]

>>10739390
Yup, Dreamcast was doing good and then when some faggots decided to create a way to pirate Dreamcast games, piracy became a problem, thus leading to Sega's downfall as a console maker.

[Anonymous No.10739462]

There's the meme about third party support killing the dreamcast but in reality the first party murdered the dreamcast.
Market your first party hard enough and you live on like Nintendo has.

[Anonymous No.10739485]

>>10739390
>>10739448
Piracy was huge on the PS1 and that didn't stop games from being published for it.

[Anonymous No.10739802]

>>10739485
No it wasn't. Lol Piracy with PS1 was non-existent or hard to do without a mod chip.

[Anonymous No.10739835]

>>10739802
Chipped consoles were common as hell though.

[Anonymous No.10739839]

>>10735439
When PS1 owners started bitching about marvel versus Street fighter being a Saturn only exclusive. Imo

[Anonymous No.10739868]

>>10735439
it was just a social experiment bro

[Anonymous No.10739882]

>>10739436
This. All over.

[Anonymous No.10739892]

>>10739802
Yes it was, even if you had no modchip whatsoever the swap trick existed, and there were "modchips" that plugged into the parallel port for those who could not solder. They were not as good as a soldered modchip as they still required swapping, but they made it effortless and were a thing back then.

And that's just talking about the US, in 3rd world countries it was near impossible to find a PS1 that was not chipped.

[Anonymous No.10739916]

>>10739802
Go back, zoomer scumbag.

[Anonymous No.10739927]

>>10735439
>299$

[Anonymous No.10739969]

>>10739436
Their mishandling of the Saturn stemmed, ironically, from their finances being kinda dodgy. They had been trending under since late 1993. Too many platforms (even before the Saturn, they were juggling the Pico, the Genesis, the Sega CD, the 32X, the Nomad, and the Game Gear), focus on the wrong types of games (cheap shovelware to pad the catalog, FMVs). They made a lot of mistakes in the 4 or so years leading up to 1995.

[Anonymous No.10740406]

>>10739835
If it were so common, then why isn't my used PS1 installed with a modchip? I had to buy a used one because the one I had before(when I bought it brand new) became useless at the time when I bought a PS2 since it was backwards compatible and then I found out I needed to use game shark codes with a PS1 to unlock everything on certain games, save it on my PS1 memory card and transfer the saves onto my PS3 with my usb PS1/PS2 memory card reader. I opened my PS1 for a cleaning and no modchip was in sight.

>>10739892
The swap trick wasn't used by the mass majority who didn't know how to pirate games on their PS1. The onky thing people used on their parallel port for was a Gameshark. Modchips simply weren't common at all, nor was it easy to buy especially since not a whole lot of people knew where to buy one nor knew it's existence.

>>10739916
I'm pretty sure I'm older than you piratefag.

[Anonymous No.10740412]

>>10735439
When they decided that a tranny clown flying through rings is better than a sonic game for their new 5th gen console.

[Anonymous No.10740438]

>>10740406
I agree, most people I knew who owned a PS1 at the time had legit copies of PS1 games. No CD-R copies at all. Heck most of my friends didn't even own a computer, let alone one that had a CD burner.

[Anonymous No.10740449]

>>10735439
Sega CD

[Anonymous No.10740465]

>>10735439
When they had to rely on Brazil to improve sales. It worked, but only for one gen.

[Anonymous No.10740478]

>>10740465
>Brazil
to sell what? 10k consoles at most?
nobody bought consoles in Brazil, people went to locadoras for a reason

[Anonymous No.10740485]

>>10739436
>The 32x wasnt a full system and the investment was much smaller.
Sega scammed their US customers with it. Releasing an add-on for a last gen console when Saturn was already out in Japan and almost out in USA and expecting people to buy it was just anti-consumer. Yes, I know that it was cheaper than Saturn. But it's not like Saturn was a pro version or anything, it had a completely different software catalogue. 32X was only alive for a year or two and the selection of software was absolutely HORRIBLE. Say whatever you want about Sega CD or Saturn, anyone will at least admit that those have unique games worth playing. The same cannot be said about 32X. At most you'd get a semi-decent arcade port that probably had a better Saturn version anyway. AND some software needed both Sega CD and 32X to work, so if someone skipped over Sega CD and just bought 32X, they were out of luck. 32X ruined the trust of US customers in Sega, and that was a bigger loss than any money they directly lost on that system.

[Anonymous No.10740503]

>>10740485
32X had better Doom and Virtua Fighter than the Saturn.

[Anonymous No.10740516]

>>10740406
>If it were so common, then why isn't my used PS1 installed with a modchip?
I assume because you don't live in a third world country where buying legit games was borderline impossible. Of fucking course it would not have a modchip in it if you bought it from Best Buy in the US or whatever.

>The swap trick wasn't used by the mass majority who didn't know how to pirate games on their PS1.
People who didn't know how to pirate did not use piracy methods? You don't say? I barely knew how to pirate PS1 games back then and I knew about the swap trick, it was not some hidden secret knowledge.

>The onky thing people used on their parallel port for was a Gameshark
Wrong

>Modchips simply weren't common at all
Incredibly wrong

You are fighting a losing battle if you are trying to claim PS1 piracy was nonexistent. Demo disks started putting anti-piracy propaganda on them over it. What next, are you going to try to argue piracy on the PS2 was rare too? I certainly hope you aren't going to try to argue that the best selling console in history wasn't a failure because of piracy.

[Anonymous No.10740590]

>>10740438
Indeed. CD burners wasn't common until 1999/2000 during the end of the PS1's lifespan.

>>10740516
False.

1) I live in the U.S. and I bought mine on eBay. No modchip.

2) One of my friends who had both a PS1 and a PC knew nothing about the swap method, it wasn't common knowledge and he had the world wide web at his finger tips to find out this information, especially since he used emulators of Genesis and SNES games back then.

3) Every friend I knew owned a gameshark back then, not some pirate mod device that you had to buy at some black market.

4) I'm incredibly right because it's true that modchips aren't common on PS1. Piracy was very rare on PS2 as well, the majority of my friends owned legit copies of PS2 games. Which is exactly why PS1 and PS2 games are affordable as fuck in the used game market. Unlike the Dreamcast games, the most pirated 6th gen console.

[Anonymous No.10740607]

>>10740590
>1) I live in the U.S. and I bought mine on eBay. No modchip.

And? If you live in a 1st world country you would have to seek out a modchipped one or do it yourself. Are you under the impression that pracfically nobody had a modded console fi they could not buy it pre-modded from a major retailer?

>One of my friends who had both a PS1 and a PC knew nothing about the swap method, it wasn't common knowledge and he had the world wide web at his finger tips to find out this information

.... are you seriously arguing because one of your friends did not know about it, this was some secret hidden knowledge? I saw fucking webcomics in the 90s referencing it. Anyone with internet would be able to know about it, especially if they were looking up ways to play burned CDs in a PS1.

>Every friend I knew

Seeing a lot of arguing anecdotal evidence here. Devices to plug into the slot that on top of acting like a Gameshark were also a modchip were not rare. You want anecdotal evidence? I had one.

> I'm incredibly right because it's true that modchips aren't common on PS1

You are incredibly wrong because the PS1 was highly pirated. And you are unbelievably laughably wrong by claiming that it was very rare on the PS2. You and your stupid friends are not the world, just because you and your dummy friends did not do it does not magically change reality and make piracy nonexistant on the PS1 and PS2. That single statement alone completely and utterly blows any credibility to your arguments out of the water, nobody in their right mind would claim piracy on the PS2 was very rare.

[Anonymous No.10740921]

>>10740607
1) or it simply isn't common. No major retailer would sell one due to the simple fact that piracy would cut into their sales of physical games.

2) There's a huge difference between hidden secret knowledge and being unaware. The majority of PS1 owners were unaware of any mod chip. No obscure webcomic on the internet would change that.

3) Gameshark is not a "modchip", it is a cheat device. Commonly used among PS1/Saturn/N64 owners to cheat. I have nearly all cheat devices except for the Game Genie on the NES. So I'd know.

4) If piracy had existed on either PS1 or PS2 during their prime, games would not have sold well. PS1 and PS2 sold so well, they become dirt cheap on eBay, retro gaming retailers and elsewhere. They had many greatest hits releases as a result. So the only one who has no "credibility" and trying to change "reality", while being incredibly "wrong" here is you.

[Anonymous No.10741268]

>>10739436
32X flopped the Saturn because the Saturn launched with terrible libraries and support from Sega. All devs struggled with the system and once word got around that it was easier to develop for the Playstation, it was over. Put all your R&D into the Saturn, don't dilute the marketing with the 32X, and put all those devs on Saturn games. Knuckles Chaotix could have had 3D backgrounds and CD audio and launched with the Saturn. If they'd had more time to polish the game, it could have done well..

[Anonymous No.10741614]

Their fate was sealed when the arcade market die and console arcade type games popularity fade away

[Anonymous No.10741642]

>>10740921
1: Nobody is arguing about retailers, of course they would not sell chipped consoles. That doesn't mean jack however, tons still chipped them.

2: And the majority of people today are unaware of how to pirate as well, doesn't mean piracy itself is some super niche group.

3: I never said GameShark was a modchip. I said there was devices that on TOP of what a GameShark does also had mod capability. You clearly don't know if you thought I was just talking about normal GameShark, so don't act like you know.

4: That's because piracy does not have anywhere near the impact on sales as the propaganda you clearly fell for would have you believe. Ivy leagues like Harvard have done studies on this and come to the same conclusion. Your laughably only argument is "They sold well, so they could not have been pirated". Other way around genius, the more a console sells, the more it is likely to be pirated. The fact that you don't know this simple fact puts every single letter you typed on here suspect.

How delusional are you? Or did you just fall for the "Don't Copy That floppy" propaganda that hard?

Remember the time the EU commissioned a study on how piracy effects sales hoping to use it for more propaganda, but when the 300 page results came back that it doesn't, they tried to bury it?

https://gizmodo.com/the-eu-suppressed-a-300-page-study-that-found-piracy-do-1818629537

Much like you are burying all of your braincells right now.

[Anonymous No.10742456]

>>10735453
You're actually wrong.
>“We were selling 50,000 units a day, then 60,000, then 100,000, but it was just not going to be enough to get the critical mass to take on the launch of PS2
If you're selling 100,000 units a day, and it's not enough, it's because you fucked up already.
Which they did. With the Saturn. And the 32X. And a lot of other shit.
I'd say they weren't ahead since like 1993, maybe 1994 they still could've turned things around. After Saturn's launch, it was all over.

[Anonymous No.10742457]

>>10735602
You don't understand. In the 90s, bringing the arcade home was fucking incredible.
Virtua Cop and Crazy Taxi were system sellers.

[Anonymous No.10742459]

>>10738546
Yes, they too can buy some AMD jaguar cores / ryzen chips and sell them as a console.
Literally all that consoles have been since ps4/xb1

[Anonymous No.10742463]

>>10740449
This was the beginning of the end.
Saturn was the actual loss. Battle of Midway, kind of thing.
Dreamcast came too late.
>>10740485
This is the important thing.
The company might not have lost much money since it wasn't much of an investment, but they lost customers, loyalty, mindshare, etc.

[Anonymous No.10742465]

>>10740590
>I live in the U.S.
this is why your opnion doesnt matter.
in brazil, every ps1/ps2 was chipped.

[Anonymous No.10742508]

>>10735439
Dreamcast controller sucked (the shoulder buttons were in the wrong place and they only put 1 stick on there when they were porting fps games, that could have really used another one). Other than that it probably wasn't bad other than lacking enough games

[Anonymous No.10742640]

>>10740921
You're right. Modchips on PS1 weren't common at all. Only a delusional retard faggot would make the claim that the majority of PS1's were modded.

[Anonymous No.10742648]

>>10741642
>piracy doesn't matter because it's only broke neets who pirate and they don't have the money to buy it anyways
ever consider that if piracy didn't exist then those broke neets would be forced to get jobs?

[Anonymous No.10742659]

The Saturn being a bunch of hour-long arcade ports sure didn't help

[Anonymous No.10742660]

>>10742640
Nobody is saying the majority... in the US. But still a significant amount. And definitely the majority in places like Brazil.

[Anonymous No.10742661]

>>10738546
They made the Genesis Mini lmao

[Anonymous No.10742662]

>>10739485
>that didn't stop games from being published for it.
Lolwut? They literally don't even make PS1 games anymore because of it.

[Anonymous No.10742663]

They solved piracy by simply not making anything I want to consume in the past 20+ years

[Anonymous No.10742670]

>>10739927
Funny how that was expensive back then when it's pocket change now.

[Anonymous No.10742675]

>>10741268
>it could have done well..
The eternal Saturnfag mantra

[Anonymous No.10742676]

>>10742508
>they only put 1 stick on there when they were porting fps games
It kills me when people recommend DC Quake 3 over the PS2 version

[Anonymous No.10742715]

Even at Sega's height I still thought Nintendo had better games

[Anonymous No.10742719]

Even to this day I still think Sega has better games

[Anonymous No.10742725]

Yesterday
Sega had all the greatest games to play
Now all their releases look so gay
Oh, I believe in yesterday

Suddenly
Sega's not half the dev they used to be
They're like a completely different company
Oh, yesterday came suddenly

[Anonymous No.10742768]

>>10735439
The moment they had to rely on the West for hardware sales.

[Anonymous No.10742832]

>>10742725
Why they had to blow
their console days
addons are lame

Wasted money on nonsense
All their fans said no way-ay-ay-ay