/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.10715458]

Red-pill me on 5th & 6th gen gaming asking me this tv setting question before the game even shows me it’s intro.

[Anonymous No.10715474]

>>10715458
I don't recall any 5th gen game asking this, I believe the very crystal oscillators in 5th gen PAL systems prevent them from displaying 60hz in colour

[Anonymous No.10715505]

>>10715458
Not all PAL region TVs were 60hz compatible....
This screen never existed for obvious reasons in NTSC areas.

[Anonymous No.10715996]

>zoomers don't even know what this screen means
just kill me

[Anonymous No.10715997]

>>10715996
yeah you're living a real crisis realising zoomers grew up with 60hz televisions

[Anonymous No.10716002]

>>10715997
I am

[Anonymous No.10716008]

>>10715458
What do you think it means anon?

[Anonymous No.10716012]

>>10715458
By the time this came around 60hz compatible PAL tvs were becoming more common but they weren't quite common enough yet. Kinda like how FF12 gave the optional for 4:3 or 16:9, knowing some people out there had widescreen tvs by this point.

[Anonymous No.10716116]

>>10716012
Don't fucking tell him. If he can't work this out he shouldn't be on here.

[Anonymous No.10716141]

>>10715458
Europoors were stuck with 50hz for a long time and this is just an option for compatibility with with shit TVs. Use 60Hz if possible

[Anonymous No.10716154]

>>10716141
It was better for TV since it was closer to 24 fps, and the colours were better. Nobody expected that higher framerate would become an important aspect of an interactive art form that wasn't invented yet.

[Anonymous No.10716168]

>>10716154
>It was better for TV
But not for console games. Tons of devs didn't even re-program their games for 50Hz and as a result they literally ran 20% slower than NTSC versions and I'm talking about game speed and audio, not just framerate

[Anonymous No.10716184]

>>10716168
Yeah I know. I'm just explaining why Europe picked PAL in the 50s.

[Anonymous No.10716185]

>>10716168
Also they ran 16.66% slower. 10 isn't 20% of 60, at least get it right.

[Anonymous No.10716192]

>>10716185
60Hz was 20% faster than 50Hz

[Anonymous No.10716203]

>>10716168
Were there any developers that DID recode for PAL vs NTSC? I'm guessing Euro devs like Psygnosis, but I've never tested it myself.

[Anonymous No.10716219]

>>10716192
But anon (you?) didn't say NTSC was 20% faster, they (you?) said PAL was 20% slower, and its not.

>>10716203
Yeah I'm pretty sure lots of devs did. Nintendo did for example, also Rare obviously. Its hard to remember because its been a long time since I played any PAL games, but I remember most of the PS1 library being the same too (I had a chipped PS1). There were differences in the music a lot of the time though. I remember everything sounding higher pitched when I started using emulators and playing NTSC versions of games.

But that's just pure memory from 20 years ago, so I could easily be wrong about that.

[Anonymous No.10716326]

no but there are two things.
you are confusing fluidity and speed.

today games on console are often at 30 frames per second and on PC at 60 frames per second.
console games are less fluid but not less fast.

For Rare, Codemasters, Psygnosis or Ubisoft games, the games are at 25 fps in PAL instead of 30 fps in NTSC, it is less fluid, but not less fast.

for the famous Sonic on Megadrive. they stupidly put the 30fps in 50hz. so to display the 30 images it takes 1.2 seconds.
So to do the same thing in 100 seconds on Sonic NTSC, you need 120 seconds on the PAL version.

https://youtu.be/PGACXzEjgw4?si=3WbhOWNwZ4Gp9X1C

[Anonymous No.10716405]

>>10716326
Who are you talking to?

[Anonymous No.10716418]

>>10715474
This, it started with the Dreamcast.

[Anonymous No.10716654]

I remember a lot of games having a "progressive scan" option that would give me a black screen; never really knew what those were about.

[Anonymous No.10716676]

>>10715474
That's only true about N64 when it comes to real 5th gen consoles.

[Anonymous No.10716693]

>>10716203
Even euro devs didn't always do it. PAL PS1 version of Rayman 1 is broken, for instance.

[Anonymous No.10716695]

>>10716676
>>10715474
PAL N64's support 60hz but no game ever utilised this. PAL Saturns and PAL PlayStations on the other hand need DFO mods.

[Anonymous No.10716708]

>>10716654
you need to use a component cable for progressive scan on ps2, xbox and gamecube. vga on dreamcast is also progressive but it doesn't ask you if you want to enable it because the console switches to it automatically if it detects a vga connection.

[Anonymous No.10716713]

>>10716695
No. It's the exact opposite. PAL Saturn or PAL PS1 will run an NTSC game and display it in color as long as your TV supports NTSC signal and you have a way to break the region lock. PAL N64s cannot run NTSC games at proper speed at all.

[Anonymous No.10716718]

>>10716713
also incorrect

[Anonymous No.10716721]

>>10716713
>No. It's the exact opposite.
Mate I had to get a DFO installed on my PS1 to play American games. Using an Everdrive on an unmodified PAL N64 to play American games proves it can do 60hz

[Anonymous No.10716734]

>>10716695
They can manage NTSC games at correct speed without the mods well enough but you get no color on composite/s-video. First time I had to bother with rgb scart was to play imports on euro ps1

[Anonymous No.10716737]

>>10716734
I pity anyone playing PS1 in RGB

[Anonymous No.10716738]

>>10716721
>Mate I had to get a DFO installed on my PS1 to play American games.
Then explain how I played pirate copies on NTSC releases on my PAL PS1 in color back in the day. I didn't use an NTSC to PAL converter.
>Using an Everdrive on an unmodified PAL N64 to play American games proves it can do 60hz
Because Everdrive has hardware on its PCB that makes this possible. There is NO way to make it work properly with real carts without modifications to N64 itself.

[Anonymous No.10716748]

>>10716738
>Then explain how I played pirate copies on NTSC releases on my PAL PS1 in color back in the day
You must have been using SCART, but that bypasses the need for an NTSC signal anyway
>Everdrive has hardware on its PCB that makes this possible
Mate, how could the cartridge bus influence the video output?

[Anonymous No.10716757]

>>10716738
>in color
Also they teach British English in Europe/Australia/Britain, so this with your repeated false statements make me inclined to believe you're an American troll

[Anonymous No.10716764]

>>10716012
In what shithole country? In the UK pretty much any half-decent TV made throughout the 90s supported 60Hz. In fact, my main gaming TV up to around 2001 or so was a Zanussi from the late 80s and even that supported 60Hz. It's what my Dreamcast was hooked up to for the first few years of its life until it finally died (the TV that is).

[Anonymous No.10716769]

I’m so glad I live in a NTSC country

[Anonymous No.10716770]

>>10716764
Yeah just about every PAL TV in the 90's supported 60hz, the problem is publishers wanted to make their games accessible to people using a piece of shit from the 70's

[Anonymous No.10716789]

>>10716757
Try again, faggot. I mostly learned English from the internet, so American spelling and accent always seemed more normal to me. Or maybe you're going to tell me that I went to a currency exchange for an elaborate troll attempt?

[Anonymous No.10716804]

My early-mid 90s bargain TV supported 60Hz no problem. Didn't support NTSC except in black and white. I'm not sure about TVs from the 80s or earlier.

[Anonymous No.10716813]

>>10716757
Seething frogman.

[Anonymous No.10716815]

>>10716789
Show me a modern Euro note with Cyrillic and not just the souvenirs you got from your Paris trip in 2012

[Anonymous No.10716818]

>>10716764
>Zanussy
I'm a zoomer btw. We're gonna take over this gay little board, you insecure old fucks.

[Anonymous No.10716830]

>tfw my new OLED tv cant handle NTSC (the color space, not 60 hz) while my old crt could

[Anonymous No.10716835]

>>10716764
I would love to see a study done on this, but I suspect that nearly all PAL tvs will sync to 60hz even if never designed for it.

[Anonymous No.10716849]

>>10716737
Not all games had that and honestly I didn't mind back then, it isn't that prominent on a regular tube.

[Anonymous No.10716850]

>>10716737
Redpill me on the masonic RGB output of the PX1.

[Anonymous No.10716873]

>>10716850
3D games on PS1, Saturn, and in many cases even PS2, Gamecube and Wii should absolutely not be played with RGB/component because the low colour depth necessitates extreme dithering—this is not an issue over composite, but ironically using the better cables makes these games look shite. Of course, this isn't really a problem on N64 since the VI filter blends the dithering together, but it's so blurry as to defeat the point of using RGB.

[Anonymous No.10716880]

>>10716873
>Gamecube and Wii
Oh, I forget that Gamecube and Wii have a deflicker filter

[Anonymous No.10716881]

>>10716873
That's absolutely not the case for 6th gen and higher, PS2 and GC games look amazing through RGB and there's absolutely no benefit to going composite on those. Not sure I ever saw a game with fullscreen dithering on Saturn so it's pretty much PS1 only problem

[Anonymous No.10716882]

>>10716873
You can't complain about VI blur on N64 and then insist that composite is the way to go. Pick a lane, either you want it blurry or you don't.

[Anonymous No.10716884]

>>10716873
That's not true on a regular ass consumer TV.

[Anonymous No.10716892]

>>10716873
Saturn can display 24bit color, PS2, Gamecube and Wii had 32bits. PS1 was the odd man out.

[Anonymous No.10716897]

>>10716881
>>10716892
>That's absolutely not the case for 6th gen and higher
There are many, many, many PS2/GC/Wii games that use low colour modes to conserve VRAM. Even Twilight Princess is among them
>>10716882
All I said was VI blur makes the marginal utility of higher quality cables on N64 very minimal

[Anonymous No.10716903]

>>10716897
That dithering looks cool.

[Anonymous No.10716905]

>>10716764
If you're from the UK you should know what boomers are like here. They take forever to move on to the next piece of technology, which turned out to be a good thing for CRT fags, there are still thousands of them for dirt cheap on eBay
>>10716818
>Zanussi=zoomer
It's a real brand, dipshit, the extractor fan in my kitchen is a Zanussi. Don't get me wrong, though, the fact it triggers you retards is hilarious

[Anonymous No.10716916]

>>10716897
No way you would see that on a TV even with RGB.

[Anonymous No.10716970]

>>10716764
People still had good working tvs from the 80s, and the 70s for that matte in the 90s anon.
Why do you retards think that everyone was buying a new TV every 3 years back then?

[Anonymous No.10716981]

>>10716789
posting that image was honestly gay as fuck

[Anonymous No.10716997]

>>10716168
>But not for console games. Tons of devs didn't even re-program their games for 50Hz and as a result they literally ran 20% slower than NTSC versions and I'm talking about game speed and audio, not just framerate

Except for the earliest titles, audio was running at normal speed in PAL mode. games like Sonic 1 are the exception, not the rule. I think people are underestimating the amount of issues that can pop up if you want to speed up gameplay for 2D games in PAL mode. It can get quite tricky actually.
One advantage for the 2D stuff is that PAL games are slightly less prone to slowdown, since there is more time available during v-blank.
Also it's ~17% slower, not 20

[Anonymous No.10716998]

>>10716708
Ah, so it had something to do with cables? I was too young to understand any of it at the time.

[Anonymous No.10718490]

>>10716998
you probably had the right cables for but an incompatible TV. I think a lot us got confused by the same thing. Component cables doesn't mean you have to use progressive scan, it just means its an option. And there were a lot of TVs in the early 2000s that took component cables for better quality but did not support progressive

[Anonymous No.10718542]

>>10718490
>you probably had the right cables for but an incompatible TV
PS2 games also for some stupid reason let you attempt to turn on progressive scan even if you're using composite cables. I don't think the system actually detects what video cables are being used like what the gamecube and xbox does.

[Anonymous No.10718653]

>>10718542
>I don't think the system actually detects what video cables are being used like what the gamecube and xbox does
If it's analog cables how would the system even know?

[Anonymous No.10718657]

>>10718542
>PS2 games also for some stupid reason let you attempt to turn on progressive scan even if you're using composite cables.
That only happened if you held a button combo (If I recall, triangle+X) at the bootup of the game

[Anonymous No.10718674]

>>10718542
Why wouldn't it work if the TV supports progressive scan?
It's just sending twice the lines per vblank.