/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.10649592]

The fact that so many sites still name Ocarina of Time as "the greatest or most significant or most influential" video game ever only tells you how far video games still are from becoming a serious art. Film critics have long recognized that the greatest films of all times are Citizen Kane and The Seventh Seal, who were not the most famous or richest or best sellers of their times, let alone of all times. Literature critics rank the highly controversial Joyce's Ulysses over classical novels who were highly popular in libraries around Europe. Video games critics are still blinded by commercial success. Ocarina of Time invented lock-on (not true, by the way), therefore it must have been the greatest. Film critics grow up watching a lot of films of the past, literature critics grow up reading a lot of classical books of the past. Video game critics are often totally ignorant of the video games of the past, they barely know the Nintendo games. No wonder they will think that Ocarina did anything worthy of being saved.

[Anonymous No.10649598]

Correct. Pathologic 2 is actually the greatest game of all time

[Anonymous No.10649604]

I'm not reading any of that but I've played this game since release and I'm ready for yet another adventure in the quaint, pastoral world of OoT's Hyrule.

[Anonymous No.10649609]

Ocarina of Time wasn't the most famous or best selling game of 1998 though. I've never seen anyone use that as an argument for the game's quality.

[Anonymous No.10649612]

>>10649609
You're right, it's the second best selling game of 1998 after Tekken 3.

[Anonymous No.10649615]

ah yes OoT sold too much

[Anonymous No.10649616]

>>10649615
It did? 7,6 million copies during that time is nothing to scoff at

[Anonymous No.10649624]

>>10649592
Scaruffi pls go

[Anonymous No.10649630]

>>10649592
>how far video games still are from becoming a serious art.

Some games are already art.

The problem with games as art though, is getting people to play the ones that count without over hyping the artistic message so much that it falls short for the other player, undercutting the idea of the game as art.

Like Nier 1 is art, and to a less extent Nier 2 is also art. Often times people disregard games as art because whatever the artistic weight the game has doesn't really come fromt he game, but instead from the story of graphics. People say 'well maybe the story is art but you didn't need the game for that."

Nier 1 on the other hand specifically uses the tropes of rpgs and the act of playing and the game mechanics for its message. For most of the people who like the game and complete it, this message hits and causes an emotional response. Not just because of the story but also because of the way the game uses the act of playing it to convey it to the player.

BUT just by telling you the game is art, you or someone else will go in with high expectations that might not be met, diminishing the games ability to be art.

Alternatively if you lower your standards of what constitutes art, using a definition like "any creative heartfelt creation by one or a few people" many older games could also be considered art. Being for fun or entertainment doesn't diminish their value, despite not having a grander message about the human condition. Something does not need a deep message to be art.

[Anonymous No.10649631]

[Anonymous No.10649640]

>>10649592
Ocarina of Time is unironically better written than Ulysses.

[Anonymous No.10649643]

>Citizen Kane and The Seventh Seal
Honestly, I've seen them both, they're good.
They're not THAT good. they're not as good as Robocop, or Seven Samurai, or The Good the Bad, and the Ugly.
Anyone telling you Citizen Kane or The Seventh Seal is "their favourite movie" is a pseudo-intellectual, who may not have seen it.

[Anonymous No.10649652]

>>10649643
>The Good the Bad, and the Ugly
For a Few Dollars More>The Good the Bad and the Ugly

[Anonymous No.10649654]

>>10649652
nah, stop being a hipster

[Anonymous No.10649657]

>>10649640
This is exactly the kind of thing I expect a Zelda fan to say to the point it's impossible to tell if you're trolling.

[Anonymous No.10649661]

>>10649652
That's a good one too.

[Anonymous No.10649669]

>>10649654
>actual characters instead of 1-dimensional cartoons
>actual chemistry between said characters
>actual plot
>actual plot structure
>actual depth
>better villain
>more realistic action scenes
>less fat
Nah, I’m thinking For a Few Dollars More is the better movie.

[Anonymous No.10649672]

>>10649643
>not as good as Robocop, or Seven Samurai, or The Good the Bad, and the Ugly.
>In 1982, it (Seven Samurai) was voted number three in the Sight & Sound critics' poll of greatest films.

[Anonymous No.10649679]

>>10649652
High Plains Drifter is better than both.

[Anonymous No.10649685]

>>10649657
By the standards Aristotle laid down in his Poetics, Ocarina of Time is objectively superior.

[Anonymous No.10649689]

>>10649679
kinda based, but The Outlaw Josey Wales is the definitive western Clint-Kino

[Anonymous No.10649697]

>>10649689
I agree. It’s like the perfect blend of American and Italian western styles.

[Anonymous No.10649723]

ZELDA OF HYRULE WAS 12

[Anonymous No.10649741]

>>10649689
Nah, the best best is Two Mules for Sister Sarah

>>10649685
Lols

[Anonymous No.10649750]

>>10649672
What's your point?
That was just three random films I pulled out of my ass as well. I brought up Seven Samurai, because it's also a well regarded black and white movie, and is better than Citizen Kane or the Seventh Seal.

[Anonymous No.10649763]

>zoomers now old enough to start "le games are art" faggotry as if we didn't already beat this horse to death online 15 years ago
>they will now smugly proclaim their opinions like its the first time anyone said it
Let me off this fugging ride

[Anonymous No.10649769]

>>10649750
Not him, but when you're talking about art in general and it applies well to movies in this case, trying to argue one thing is objectively better as in Seven Samurai is better than Citizen Kane really doesn't mean anything. Real art is about the interaction between the art and the viewer and is highly subjective. So at best you can say you connected with Seven Samurai more and like it for some subjective reasons. Because there are others out there who connected differently and feel the opposite. I think Gone With The Wind is a very well filmed and impressively visual pile of crap. But that doesn't negate the people who find it incredible and moving.

[Anonymous No.10649776]

>>10649769
Yeah, but OP was repeating the commonly accepted meme of Citizen Kane being the "greatest movie of all time", as if that's not something I can disagree with, and as if that's not largely misunderstood as a statement anyway.
Citizen Kane isn't praised for being "really really good". It's praised for inventing certain film making techniques.

[Anonymous No.10649782]

Boy anytime you see that cover posted on here you know you're in for a bad time.

[Anonymous No.10649807]

>>10649592
>yet another thread seething at OOT
Do you guys ever get tired of that? it hapends daily

[Anonymous No.10649814]

>>10649782
I've noticed we get waves of Sonic threads, and N64 threads, which seemingly only exist as bait, and I can only imagine it's one poster who comes here intermittently, just to be a faggot.

Whenever you see like four Sonic threads, and four N64 threads up on the catalogue, you know "he" is here.

[Anonymous No.10649829]

>>10649807
do you ever get tired of making "FF7 is overrated" threads?

[Anonymous No.10649839]

>>10649829
I don't make those ever, but well done outing yourself as a seething PS kiddie.

I didn't like the FF games on Nintendo systems either, by the way. I think the series is kind of bad. I've told you this before.

[Anonymous No.10649842]

I stopped taking Scaruffi seriously when I saw how highly he rated Springsteen.

[Anonymous No.10649848]

>>10649592
>Literature critics rank the highly controversial Joyce's Ulysses over classical novels who were highly popular in libraries around Europe.
And they are wrong.

[Anonymous No.10649853]

>>10649776
It was probably made as a troll, but as there are people who saw it at the right time still hold that Citizen Kane really is the best movie ever made, there are some who genuinely feel that way about OoT.

[Anonymous No.10649885]

>>10649853
OOT is really really good at what it does, and hasn't really been beaten in that regard.
Like how there isn't really a better Star Wars than Star Wars. No other franchise quite nails that particular thing of being a both a sci-fi special effects thrill ride, and a traditional fairy tale, in a way that pretty much appeals to everyone and all ages. Doesn't necessarily mean Star Wars is the best movie ever, but it is the best at being Star Wars. It's better than Flash Gordon. It's better than Krull. It's better than I dunno, Pacific Rim or some shit.

I think the notion of a single best game of all time is farcical anyway. We have genre distinctions for a reason. You don't compare a racing game to a shooter or an RPG. It's stupid.

[Anonymous No.10649889]

>>10649592
>serious art. Film critics
Gotta stop you right there. If you think the absolute dumpster fire trash heap that is filmmaking is "serious art" you need to eat cyanide.

[Anonymous No.10649892]

>>10649885
>OOT is really really good at what it does, and hasn't really been beaten in that regard.
Okami beats it.

[Anonymous No.10649919]

>>10649885
OoT is painfully competent at what it does but isn't special in any way.
>The same three puzzles are repeated throughout the entire game and you're never allowed to think outside of the box—many times the game is specifically programmed to prevent this.
>Almost all the bosses revolve around slowly-executing gimmicks
>The theoretically deep combat system is not utilised in any battle; instead, you circle strafe around an enemy and wait for them to reveal their weakness
And that's without getting to the outright unmistakably bad parts of the game, like how you are being constantly interrupted.

[Anonymous No.10649920]

>>10649885
I mean yeah you could say Ocarina of Time is the best at being Zelda, but many would disagree and like thinking Citizen Kane is the best movie out there it depends a lot on when they played it and how it connected with them. I thought LttP was better but I also don't particularly like them to start with.

As for Star Wars this is another opinion I don't agree with, but most people when asked will say they think Empire Strikes Back is the best. Similarly many older people who saw Return have viewed it ever since as kiddy trash because of the Ewoks meanwhile many others think it's the best. It's just all too subjective.

[Anonymous No.10649923]

>>10649919
In short, OoT was not even the best Zelda game up to that point, let alone clearly the best game ever made.

[Anonymous No.10649926]

Based OOT making posers seethe.
Also that /mu/ meme is always hilarious

[Anonymous No.10649928]

>>10649892
Okami is like everything bad people say about 3D Zelda games, but it's actually true in Okami. The helper characters literally never shut up or let you solve anything.

[Anonymous No.10649931]

>>10649592
Videogames aren't art.

[Anonymous No.10649936]

>>10649624
Scaruffi adamantly loves the game though and gave it the highest score he's given anything.

[Anonymous No.10649937]

>>10649923
It's better than ALTTP, which has too much annoying wandering around in the dark world stuff, that isn't particularly fun, and also just generally lacks a lot of the personality you'd expect out of a Zelda. Very few fun NPCs. Just a lot of very flat, matter of fact fantasy tropes.
I could understand someone preferring Link's Awakening, or either of the first two, but those are also very different games.

[Anonymous No.10649938]

>>10649931
Define art.

[Anonymous No.10649943]

>>10649853
>It was probably made as a troll
It's a copy pasta but with The Beatles replaced with OoT.

[Anonymous No.10649946]

>>10649928
Holding Okami in higher regard than every Zelda is a mark of a true hipster for this reason.

[Anonymous No.10649948]

>>10649937
>It's better than ALTTP, which has too much annoying wandering around in the dark world stuff, that isn't particularly fun, and also just generally lacks a lot of the personality you'd expect out of a Zelda. Very few fun NPCs.

Not him, but what you've done here is to declare OoT is the best by just saying it's OoT. Exploring the dark world is interesting and less annoying NPCs is a positive in the game's favor.

[Anonymous No.10649952]

>>10649943
Okay, that's grand.

[Anonymous No.10649956]

>>10649948
I don't agree. I like the NPCs, and I dislike too much meandering around in video game labyrinths.
I like my adventuring to be more storytelling flavoured.
>I went to the village and got acquainted with this character and their problems, and we had a journey together
Not
>I walked through 50 rooms and fought skeletons again

[Anonymous No.10649961]

You know what's funny?
Out of the ten good games the N64 had and with its huge marketing campaign, OoT didn't even manage to be the best-selling game on it.

[Anonymous No.10649963]

>>10649956
And to me, your first example isn't very compelling to me, but 50 rooms of progressively harder and more interesting fights against skeletons is far more appealing. The best Zelda-like game I've played in my opinion is Binding of Isaac.

[Anonymous No.10649964]

>>10649961
>it was ONLY the 4th best selling game on the console
whoaaaa...
>was never even a pack in title like SM64 and GE
yep, you did a retarded

[Anonymous No.10649967]

>>10649592
Critics are pathetic and their opinions are less than meaningless. Make your own decisions.

[Anonymous No.10649969]

>>10649963
That literally just sounds like grind to me. This is why I've never played Diablo. It looks unappealing. You're taking the adventure out of adventure, and reducing it to enemy crowd control and looting.
Different strokes for different folks, but I don't care at all.

[Anonymous No.10649978]

>>10649961
>doesn't notice or understand a pack in game
Whoa .. what a faggot

[Anonymous No.10649979]

>>10649961
Okay.

[Anonymous No.10649981]

>>10649967
But how will I pretend to have my own opinions without getting my own opinions from YouTube essays? How did people come up with ideas before the internet

[Anonymous No.10649985]

>>10649969
And that's how I feel when I try to play Zelda, sometimes the aesthetics pull me in but I just get bored mid way through because though I enjoy exploring, it's not enough to hold me unless the mechanics are equally good.

[Anonymous No.10649986]

>>10649978
look at the yellow

[Anonymous No.10650004]

>>10649981
They got them from similar idiots in magazines, newspapers, and TV.

[Anonymous No.10650065]

>>10649592
>Ocarina of Time invented lock-on (not true, by the way),
Name an earlier game that handled lock-on as fluidly as OoT. Mega Man Legends had lock-on and released nearly a full year before OoT but it felt like fucking ass to play even back then.

Every contrarian loves to pretend like it didn't revolutionize that shitty early 3D era but for some reason they can never seem to provide proof.

[Anonymous No.10650071]

>>10650065
Way to move goal posts lol. Also popularizing lock on is hardly something anyone should be proud of.

[Anonymous No.10650082]

>>10650071
>zero argument
As expected. No goal post was moved. Nobody other than retards actually think OoT invented lock-on. That shit was present even in SNES games and probably some NES titles. The challenge of that era wasn't making a 3D game, it was making a 3D game that controlled well and OoT excelled in that regard in all aspects. Are you or are you not capable of presenting another game that did it just as well if not better prior to OoT? Because that's what the game is heralded for.

[Anonymous No.10650093]

>>10650065
>as fluidly
always this cope lol

By that reasoning, there are newer games that perfected lock-on and automated platforming so OoT doesn't count either. You can't have it both ways. There's a reason people used to praise inventors and not refiners, because refiners get phased out by more refining.

[Anonymous No.10650107]

>>10649592
I really liked OoT. It was fun to play, it had charmingly weird NPCs and nice music.
But really, the plot is very cliché fest / low budget fantasy movie.

[Anonymous No.10650110]

>>10650065
Virtual On.

[Anonymous No.10650114]

>>10650082
You made the argument yourself, it didn't invent lock on, that's simple fact. You think Zelda's is better so you move the goal post to "it invented lock on I enjoy".

I am not the one who brought it up, just pointing out you're wrong and I still maintain lock on is generally bad and should never have gained as wide usage as it did.

[Anonymous No.10650115]

>>10650107
it's a kids' game, a well made one, but only in video games you get people claiming that kid media is the best ever. You don't see serious film/literature critics claiming The Lion King or Harry Potter are the best in their fields.

[Anonymous No.10650117]

>>10650114
>and I still maintain lock on is generally bad and should never have gained as wide usage as it did.
You and every other hipster in the past few years.

[Anonymous No.10650120]

>>10650110
Now that anon, who has never played Virtual On, will try to argue why it doesn't count either because it doesn't look as Zelda-y as Zelda based on the few youtube videos he looked at.

[Anonymous No.10650121]

>>10650107
>It was fun to play
How? The combat was tedious bullshit with no challenge - just wait until I'm allowed to hit the enemy and then hit.
Puzzles were crap too.

[Anonymous No.10650134]

>>10650117
I've always felt that and I'm an old fuck. I guess even hipsters are right sometimes.

[Anonymous No.10650157]

>lowest quality OoT bait ever
>70 replies in 3 hours
Fuck Scrauffi, fuck the Beatles, fuck /mu/

[Anonymous No.10650164]

>>10650121
It's challenging when you're like 6 years old. Much more challenging becomes just frustrating.
Even with how easy it was people were bitching about the water temple

[Anonymous No.10650171]

>>10650115
Great point.

[Anonymous No.10650173]

>>10650115
Gaming is a childish hobby.

[Anonymous No.10650176]

>>10650164
>Even with how easy it was people were bitching about the water temple
Because the tedious boot switching.

[Anonymous No.10650186]

>>10650173
>Gaming is a childish hobby.
most hobbies are

[Anonymous No.10650187]

>>10650114
>>10650134
How is lock on generally bad? Most action games could not exist without it. Theres some that pull off not using it but in action games with fast and small enemies it feels pretty mandatory to have.

[Anonymous No.10650192]

>>10650187
lock-on
>reduces freedom and challenge
automated platforming
>reduces freedom and challenge
contextual actions
>reduces freedom and challenge

OoT only brought decline to the medium. Wish people had copied Mario 64 and not OoT but it was always obvious the industry was going to degenerate towards the latter.

[Anonymous No.10650193]

>>10650114
>fallacy
Try again anon. Apply yourself this time.

[Anonymous No.10650202]

>>10650115
First of all these arent comparable because OoT's advancements to the field of gaming were mostly due to mechanics and not storytelling.
Second there are some extremely highly regarded films that were targeted at family audiences. Spirited Away and the original Star Wars/LotR trilogies come to mind immediately. As for books, Narnia is very highly regarded and definitely a kids book.

[Anonymous No.10650204]

>>10650192
There's a reason Mario 64 barely features any enemies. The ability to force your character to face a target in 3D is almost required for a game not to suck.

[Anonymous No.10650210]

>>10649685
Care to cite which standards you're referring to and how they align with Ocarina of Time?

Oh, don't worry, I'll wait. I'll even make some popcorn and pull up a nice comfy chair. Now, do go on. I'm on the edge of my seat in suspense.

[Anonymous No.10650212]

>>10650093
>By that reasoning, there are newer games
Stopped reading there because you're a fucking retard. Refinement is one thing. Being the first to provide something functional, intuitive and fluid is another. "Newer games" don't fucking matter because they're not trying to solve something which hadn't been solved before. They never had to make their own blueprints. The fact that you don't understand the difference says everything about how little value your opinion holds.

[Anonymous No.10650215]

>>10650192
Mario 64 and oot arent the same genre, lock on enhances freedom and challenge by giving the player more options. For example they tried to take lock on out of the reboot of Devil May Cry and it was shit, that series has context sensitive attacks that you can only do while locked on and the amount of combat freedom you have in that game isnt possible without it.

[Anonymous No.10650224]

>>10650110
>arcade
Far, far more power in those systems at the time. Not comparable because N64/PSX games were limited in what they could do and how much RAM could be dedicated to any given system.

[Anonymous No.10650230]

>>10650187
Well Monster Hunter is a pretty great example of a game designed around not having lock on and has fast and small enemies you have to deal with. The main problem I have is it tends to reduce a lot of larger fights to just circle strafing and dodging.

[Anonymous No.10650237]

>>10650193
What fallacy? To the question which game invented lock on Zelda is not the answer.

[Anonymous No.10650240]

>>10650224
Okay, you win.
OoT was the first 3d Zelda game with 'Ocarina' in the title on the N64 to have lock-on that works exactly like OoT.

[Anonymous No.10650247]

>>10650230
no it's not, Monster Hunter is exactly what I was thinking when I mentioned fast and small enemies specifically. Monster Hunter works because you're fighting giant monsters and you have to target individual parts of their body - a lock on system would get in the way of that. Yeah technically there are small monsters but they are a side nuisance that barely pose any threat to you, the point of the game is hunting the big monsters.

>The main problem I have is it tends to reduce a lot of larger fights to just circle strafing and dodging.
this is a problem with OoT's combat specifically and not lock-on as a whole. The enemy AI isn't very well done so they can't punish circle strafing, it's not necessarily a problem with modern games that use lock-on.

[Anonymous No.10650250]

>>10650237
Straw man fallacy. Nobody but retards are talking about OoT "inventing" lock-on yet that's the basis of your criticism. Even when someone tries to steer you onto the correct course you cry "g-g-goalposts!"
>>10650240
>Okay, you win.
You didn't need to reply just to tell me that anon. I already knew you were a fucking moron who didn't know what they were talking about when you attempted that sort of comparison.

[Anonymous No.10650263]

>>10650250
>Nobody but retards
Yeah, we also call them "OOT fans"

[Anonymous No.10650270]

>critics
Stopped caring right there. Pretentious twats who make their career out of trying to convince people their opinion is objective fact.
Look at a critic's top movie list of the last 25 years, and you see shit like Black Panther and Paddington 2. Look at actual audiences picks, and you see stuff like Inception and The Departed. Which movies sound like they involve more grey matter to you? Speed won more Oscars than Pulp Fiction. Alien got one Oscar, Apocalypse Now got two, Kramer Vs. Kramer got 5. RoboCop, Innerspace, Wall Street, and The Untouchables all got a single Oscar each, The Last Emperor got 9.
Books follow the same path. Readers been buying old stuff like The Great Gatsby, Lord of the Flies, and 1984. Look at a critic's list, and they say Infinite Jest and The Giver are the best. The former is an overly-long book the writer has admitted "the story can't fully be made sense of", the latter is a bitch basic "reading is GOOD" story for children. They praise The Giver for having a message they like, and praise Infinite Jest because they don't understand the plot and assume it must be too smart for them.
Videogame critics aren't any better. It's well known many don't play the games for very long before they write their reviews. Even ones like Adam Sessler that /v/ likes to suck off, shit all over STALKER since they couldn't figure out how the gunplay worked. What did they praise as the best games of 2007? Rock Band, and Uncharted. Who needs actual gameplay and thinking when we have a rhythm game and a press-x-to-not-die TPS?

[Anonymous No.10650350]

>>10650212
>Being the first to provide something functional, intuitive and fluid is another.
Explain using facts and logic why Virtual-On isn't functional, intuitive and fluid, and why Zelda is.

[Anonymous No.10650361]

>>10650350
I already explained why. It's an arcade series and arcade cabinets had significantly more power than consoles at the time. If you don't understand why this matters you're too stupid to educate.

[Anonymous No.10650372]

>>10649598
Pathologic 2, Typгop, The Legacy of Kain series, Phantasy Star III, Ace Combat 4, Deus Ex, Return to Castle Wolfenstein and Wolfenstein: The New Order, the Marathon series, there are so many great games that people ignore in favorite of Ocarina of Time. Hell, they ignore the much better Majora's Mask to suck off OoT some more.

[Anonymous No.10650375]

>>10650250
>Straw man fallacy. Nobody but retards are talking about OoT "inventing" lock-on yet that's the basis

I'm literally quoting the thread, dipshit. >>10650065 the statement was that Ocarina of Time did not invent lock on. That is simply a fact. You are trying your very hardest to twist that away from fact and into the realm of "which game did it smoothly enough for me". You are being disingenuous, I know it and you know it. There is no strawman, just you trying to ignore reality.

[Anonymous No.10650390]

>>10650375
>still relying on fallacies
At this point I'm just going to accept your concession. Have fun trying to dismantle non-arguments which aren't even being presented.

[Anonymous No.10650394]

>>10650247
You've barely played Monster Hunter I see. You spend a lot of time fighting small monsters and a lot of time dealing with small monsters while you are fighting a big one.

[Anonymous No.10650398]

>>10650361
I don't see facts and logics there, just you dismissing games for arbitrary reasons (not arbitrary, just you being a tendie, but let's obviate it)

[Anonymous No.10650401]

>>10650390
You accept my concession that you are objectively wrong and don't want to keep going because you have no actual valid point in any way? Lol

[Anonymous No.10650410]

>>10650398
>arbitrary reasons
Yes thank you for proving my point and admitting you're a retard. This would be like someone saying Crash Bandicoot wasn't revolutionary because arcades could manage better graphics without needing the engineering wizardry used in Crash.

If you're going to try to compare two things they need to be on equal footing. That's the whole reason why people call the game revolutionary for its time. I've already laid this out as plainly as I can. You're too stupid for me to help you anon and this is no longer my problem.

[Anonymous No.10650423]

>>10650410
You just keep calling everyone names for failing to understand your ultra specific criteria of why lock-on can't be lock-on unless the game is called Ocarina of Time. You think that's a good go-to when it comes to internet discussions. It isn't. Dismissed.

[Anonymous No.10650430]

>>10650423
>fallacy
How many times are you going to rely on that? Concession remains accepted. Thanks for making this so easy.

[Anonymous No.10650432]

>>10650430
(You)

[Anonymous No.10650451]

>>10649763
>le games are art
They are
You're gonna say a fucking garbage summer gross-humor romcom movie from the 90s is art but games that teach far better lessons than that garbage aren't?

[Anonymous No.10650491]

>>10650430
Tell us again which game had lock on first? Are you going to lie or deflect?

[Anonymous No.10650498]

>he's still trying to bait with the straw man

[Anonymous No.10650508]

>>10649609
you dont engage in "discussion" about it then. retards bring it up all the time as a metric of "influence" and that clearly "influence" equals quality.

[Anonymous No.10650513]

>>10650430
This really highlights how stupid and short sighted Zelda fan are. They will state something false but insist it's fact and when the real facts are put right in front of them, they just ignore reality and act smug and bratty claiming they are right anyways. It's no surprise you also think OoT is so good, your brain is complete mush incapable of objective thought.

[Anonymous No.10650536]

>he's still trying to bait with the straw man

[Anonymous No.10650543]

>>10649592
they're just retarded nostalgia zealots. the game doesnt really hold up at all (like pretty much everything on the n64) and they will never acknowledge that, and in fact insist upon the opposite, with absolutely nothing to back it up beyond nostalgia. it will never be taken seriously because you can have serious or honest discussion about it. it would be like if people said mulan (which also came out in 1998) was the best movie ever made, just because that was their favorite movie at the time and they rewatched it a gorillion times while slurping mcdonalds szechuan sauce (however, big difference being that oot doesnt really hold up and mulan actually does).

[Anonymous No.10650564]

so much snoy cope lol go back to your "final" fantasy 89845 2 menu browsing simulator "games"