/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.10642612]

Which one and why?

[Anonymous No.10642617]

>>10642612
mario because he wahoo mama miaaaa

[Anonymous No.10642623]

>>10642612
Mario is the innovator of new ideas.
Banjo is the fully realized product based on the concepts of the innovator.

Banjo I can go back to every year for a full playthrough. Mario 64 I will dick around in a few stages and put down after a while.

[Anonymous No.10642624]

>>10642612
Everyone that's about to reply to this is going to suck Mario 64s cock even though the levels and objectives are boring and repetitive as fuck and the controls are heavy and stiff. Anyone with an actual brain that thinks for themselves would pick Banjo.

It's time to wake up, every single 3D platformer that came out after Mario 64 is better than Mario 64. It was good for exactly when it came out and it sure did help invent the genre but it got trounced immediately by everything else.

[Anonymous No.10642626]

>>10642624
>Mario 64's controls are stiff
stopped reading there

[Anonymous No.10642631]

>>10642626
Just because shitty onions streamers you watch speedrun the game doesn't mean it has these perfectly fluid and immaculate controls and movement everyone pretends it does

[Anonymous No.10642640]

>>10642631
idk if you're the guy I originally replied to or someone new entering the conversation because I didn't read your post at all. I won't do it, in fact, because I will not take the risk of engaging in a real conversation with someone so utterly below the rest of the board intellectually. I am now going to close the thread and can only hope the Anon who thinks Mario 64 has stiff controls can find a good psychiatrist.

[Anonymous No.10642645]

>>10642612
Kazooie did it better, like how Dead Space did it better than RE4. Unoriginal doesn't mean it is inferior. If anything, new is sexier & more advanced.

[Anonymous No.10642646]

Both.

[Anonymous No.10642648]

>>10642640
This is actually the game that controls as good as you think 64 controls. OOGABOOGABOOGA go fucking cry about it some more faggot

[Anonymous No.10642658]

Im just gonna say that Mario Odyssey feels closer to Banjo Kazooie then it does Mario 64 with its level structure/collecting. Rare won in the end.

[Anonymous No.10642671]

>>10642612
i 100% mario 64 back in the day, but could never get into banjo (even though we got it for free a year or so after release). is banjo even worth playing today? i love collectathons, but couldnt get into dk64 either

[Anonymous No.10642698]

>>10642612
SM64. Controls and levels. BK is fine very good music, but the gameplay isn't as good as SM64

[Anonymous No.10642867]

>>10642612
Ape Escape.

[Anonymous No.10642881]

>>10642612
Mario 64 because it's an actually good game.
In my opinion, Banjo's always been inferior.

[Anonymous No.10642895]

Banjo Kazooie:
+Better controls
+Better graphics
+More imaginative world
+More variety and scale

I have never liked Mario.

[Anonymous No.10642946]

>>10642645
>Dead Space better than RE4
What the fuck are you smoking?

[Anonymous No.10642960]

>>10642946
Cry more. DSpace is SUPERIOR to Resident Emo 4. Better environments, cooler weapons, and significantly SCARIER enemies & atmosphere than a bunch of Spanish zombies with cactus straws sticking out of their heads.

[Anonymous No.10642970]

>>10642612
Mario by every conceivable measurement. If you don’t like certain levels you can avoid them and still come to the conclusion of the game. Just to get to the final boss of Banjo Kazooie you have to get like 95% of every collectible from every level, and go through the awful Furnace section. In Mario 64, if you don’t like Rainbow Cruise you never even have to go to it once.

[Anonymous No.10642972]

>>10642960
>Better environments
Okay, now I know you're a retard. The Ishimura corridors for 10 hours is not more interesting than the innumerable amount of set pieces and environment changes on offer in RE4.

[Anonymous No.10642983]

Mario because you at least feel that you're actually doing something instead of just running in circles and collecting shit. I've tried to like Banjo but it just feels completely braindead.

[Anonymous No.10642990]

>>10642612
>comparing to mario 64 instead of zelda 64
Meds

[Anonymous No.10643002]

if you ask me banjo is a 7/10 platform hailed only by furries, nintentards and nostalgiafags. SM64 however is awesome, so i would pick the latter.

[Anonymous No.10643019]

>>10642648
of course it's a fucking Sunshinefag. Every time. Your game sucks, btw.

[Anonymous No.10643042]

>>10642612
This one

[Anonymous No.10643115]

>>10642867
Seconding this.
I’m a big Nintendo fan, but I prefer Ape Escape over Super Mario 64 and Banjo-Kazooie.
I like Super Mario 64, but never fully beat it. I tried Banjo-Kazooie for the first time a few months ago, but couldn’t fully get into it.
Ape Escape was a recent game I played for the first time a month ago and I loved it.

[Anonymous No.10643224]

I think banjo is probably the best mascot platformer of the generation, outside of Mario 64

[Anonymous No.10643279]

>Banjo
S-tier collectathon
>Mario64
S-tier platformer

It really is that simple. Banjo barely feels like a platformer most of the time and what people like most about it is the exploration, aesthetics, gimmicks and humour. But gameplay wise Mario 64 is the far superior platformer. It actually has challenge.

[Anonymous No.10643329]

>>10643279
Banjo is a fairly poor collectathon as Ape Escape would demonstrate the potential of the genre by making the collecting be actual gameplay. I think it's only well regarded because the VHS campaign getting many to buy it and it not being particularly stand out in yet another slow year for the N64, so fans had little choice.

[Anonymous No.10643430]

>>10643279
I pretty much agree. The controls and physics of Mario 64 is a like a Miles Davis album. Young people aren't going to see it for what it is, the work of an experienced creative master that only reveals itself as more distinguished as it gets older. Banjo is beautiful, comfy and fairly easy most of the time. It's like listening to the Beatles, it's a masterwork of accessibility and charm

[Anonymous No.10643434]

>>10643042
Lmao what

[Anonymous No.10643996]

>>10642631
>>10642648
Yes certainly

[Anonymous No.10644150]

Mario 64 is a 3D platformer first and foremost, and a collectathon second. It controls excellently for the most part and the levels are built to support the advanced mobility of the plumber. The core aspect of the game is Mario himself an how he moves. The levels are serviceable but they do feel quite a lot more like jungle gyms, and are abstract, they're mostly not like actual fleshed-out locations. It really is a true platformer at its core.

Banjo is a exploration-collectathon first, and a 3D platformer second. The core aspect of the game isn't the mobility of the characters (which is serviceable, but doesn't remotely approach Mario's complex movement. the bear is way stiffer and less nimble and you don't have a wealth of movement options.) instead the core focus is on the worlds themselves. Banjo rides off of its charm and its rather high-quality level design with areas that all actually FEEL like real believable places, not some abstract video game obstacle course. But it can also be said that Banjo's gameplay can be a tad too easy or too cliche at times. Mario is excellent at catering to beginner players while also allowing skilled and masterful players to do incredible things. But a masterful Banjo player isn't THAT much different from a casual player just simply because the bear's game mostly doesn't have complex options available.

Did I summarize well

[Anonymous No.10644152]

>>10644150
Very. There's a reason mario has a huge romhacking community while banjo has 1 guy

[Anonymous No.10644205]

>>10642623
Banjo Kazooie has a completely different design philosophy than Mario 64. Banjo focuses on collecting things. Mario focuses on the missions around collectables. They're not the same at all. >>10642624
I find Mario 64 funner because the levels have more unique themes. In Banjo you get the first level which is semi unique and then almost every following level is based on a generic theme such as PIRATES, HAUNTED HOUSE, etc... Only a few levels really stood out such as the one with the shark, the bay near the end, the tree level, and that's about it.

In Mario 64 almost every area has a unique spin on it. Even the generic levels like the snow, desert, and lava ones. >>10642626
He's probably playing it on a shitty emulator. >>10642645
I don't think Kazooie did anything better because they're completely different. Kazooie is about collecting, Mario is about missions.

[Anonymous No.10644209]

>>10642658
Nintendo only structured it more like Banjo because it was easier to develop. Designing unique missions and ideas for every star is much harder than just spamming collectables everywhere and copy and pasting missions.

[Anonymous No.10644220]

>>10643434
>Open 3D platorm levels
>Collecting stars to progress

What's not Mario 64 about it?

[Anonymous No.10644221]

>>10642671
If you have OCD it's worth playing. Otherwise it's boring. >>10642881
Agreed. >>10642895
>More imaginative world
Every Mario 64 level has a unique twist and gimmick to it.
>The first generic green level is a battlefield
>The dessert level allows you to explore the inside of a period and fight an ancient Egyptian spirit. Name another game that's done that. It's certainly more creative than Banjos dessert level.
>The ghost level allows you to explore a mansion and discover a flooded basement, secret rooms, etc... etc... Much more creative and fun than Banjos generic dollar store Halloween decorations level.
>Scale
Scale isn't automatically good. In the case of Banjo it makes it boring to have to traverse these giant open areas microanalysising every inch for collectables.

I tried to force myself to like Banjo but it just felt like a chore in the end.

[Anonymous No.10644224]

>>10642970
Agreed. It's tedious. >>10642983
This. >>10643002
Right.

[Anonymous No.10644226]

>>10644150
Well summarized. Although I'd disagree on Banjo's levels feeling realer. Most of them feel like generic holiday decorations in terms of asthetic

[Anonymous No.10644229]

>>10642612
i definitely liked banjo games way more as a kid
rare at that time were absolute masters of making really colorful interesting worlds for kids to explore

in terms of playability from a modern standpoint, mario no contest
banjo is a much clunkier game, and has a lot of the hallmark issues of early 3D. where mario games, even to this day, still control almost identically to 64

[Anonymous No.10644246]

>>10642631
what are you on about?
SM64s controls were immediately the gold standard for how to design 3D movement for platformers, they nailed it THAT hard. even years after N64 was dead and buried SM64 was often used as a comparison for a games controls

[Anonymous No.10644254]

>>10644205
>I don't think Kazooie did anything better because they're completely different
they are different, but i dont think youre giving them enough credit desu
all rare games from that era were absolutely dripping with personality. THATS what they did "better". SM64 in comparison feels a lot more sterile.

there were at least a dozen other shit collectathons at that time and yet every single one of rares N64 titles still stick out, to this day, because they had "style" where others didnt

[Anonymous No.10644280]

>>10644254
Nah, I disagree. Most of Banjo's levels felt like generic holiday decorations in terms of style and design. Mario 64 had more unique charming levels
>Battlefield
>Tiny huge island
>Inside a giant clock
>Scaling a mountain while fighting against the wind
> Exploring an underwater city
>Going inside of a pyramid and fighting an ancient Egyptian spirit.

Lots of very soulful and unique stuff no one gives it credit for.

[Anonymous No.10644283]

>>10644280
I liken Banjo's level design to theme parks. You're dropped in a spot that gives you access to a few attractions, there's often a central point to survey the area, and plenty of little games and rides to play to complete it. Often times the activities you're doing are completely disconnected from core game mechanically.

There's nothing wrong with generic themes, but Banjo isn't exactly doing much with them.

[Anonymous No.10644290]

>>10644283
Good summary and I agree.

[Anonymous No.10644379]

>>10644280
i suppose
but if you played SMW prior youd see all of that as pretty much a retread of what youd already seen/played back on SNES. cuz it was
banjo was a lot more new feeling at the time. everyone wanted more new 3D worlds to fuck around in and all the rare games delivered on that in spades

[Anonymous No.10644386]

>>10644379
What? The levels in 64 had nothing in common with world. Have you played either? At most 64 shared some themes with Bros 3 and Mario Land 2 ala tiny huge island and tik Tok clock.

[Anonymous No.10644463]

>>10644386
idk what to tell you, youre just being pedantic. every mario game shares a ton of commonalities with its predecessors
>ice lvl
>desert lvl
>small/big lvl
>underwater lvl
>ghost lvl
>pipe/underground lvl
>sky lvl
etc
that was the point, to bring the mario experience into the 3rd dimension, unadulterated
and it did it as perfectly as any 2D -> 3D transition ever did, arguably

for the record my vote is for SM64, but you seemed confused as to why we liked rare games so much back then
its because banjo, DK, conkers etc all felt like a very new and fresh take on the 3D platforming that SM64 had established. we had all played the fuck out of SM64 at that point. so rare making a fuckton of new levels to explore was what we wanted. and they did it several times on N64, whereas with mario we could still only play the same game again for the 100th time

>muh generic themeparks
again, that was all we wanted: more rides
it wasnt a tired trope yet, or lack of imagination, and there werent many other 3D games we could explore yet
it was exactly what the doctor ordered. the games were always fucking huge and full of bullshit to find, in a world that had some personality to it. and their quality only stuck out further once everyone else started trying to copy them
now i have no desire to play any of them ever again, but denying how solid they were at the time is fucking silly. kids were desperate for more shit to explore, and rare delivered on that front like once a year for the whole lifespan of the N64
thats why people liked them back then

[Anonymous No.10644484]

>>10642612
I prefer Banjo because I like collect-a-thons, and I like the music, visuals, humor, etc. It rides high off of its charm and spectacle and delivers a decent game on top of that. The fact that a one-hit-wonder like Banjo is even able to stand against one of Nintendo's biggest is a testament to Banjo's quality.
>>10643042
Damn good taste, anon.

[Anonymous No.10644493]

>>10644484
>one-hit-wonder like Banjo
Do you know the meaning of "one-hit-wonder"? It got a direct sequel that sold over one million copies, hardly a one-hit-wonder.

[Anonymous No.10644728]

>>10644150
ChatGPT vibes

[Anonymous No.10644741]

>>10644283
The whole vibe of Banjo does feel like a carnival. The game leads me to wonder if the devs have a background in the industry of cheap entertainment for children but it's more likely they're going off their own childhood memories. There's a lot of sonder and charm to the feeling that the game is running off sparks of a lost art. I feel like I've heard tell of 90s Japanese games having a kabuki influence to the structure of their narrative and presentations not even overt reference

[Anonymous No.10644749]

>>10642631
>onions
Filtered

[Anonymous No.10644756]

>>10644150
Work on conciseness and clarity. Other than that... Big if true.

[Anonymous No.10644789]

>>10642612
Mario. Because banjo looked like another gimmick mascot for kids. Seriously unattractive. Of course Mario is a gimmick & both NES & SNES were for kids, but you know I mean. Doesn't make it bad marketing, not bad game just unattractive IMO. Many N64 games had animal characters is all I mean. Made it seem like they were trying to steal crash bandicoots thunder. Different games, but you know what I mean. Wouldn't have touched it. Not for me. No cartoons. Banjo is ugly. How could you go from contra, Castlevania, Gradius, to banjo. Not for me.

[Anonymous No.10645217]

>>10642612
SM64 for the physics, BK for the presentation. I love them both.

[Anonymous No.10645315]

>>10645217
>>10644150
Imagine Banjo-Kazooie's engine room. Now imagine it was in Mario 64. You can immediately tell it would be WAY easier if Mario tried to do it.

Banjo is not an acrobatic bear. The reason this isn't a problem is because 99% of the game is designed with this in mind. Instead of trying to directly compete with Mario, Banjo just accepts that his movement options kinda suck and instead focus on having interesting set pieces for Banjo to interact with

[Anonymous No.10645317]

>>10644280
Because most of the stages felt like test levels from a beta.

[Anonymous No.10645430]

>>10642612
Mario because you can go FAST. Banjo is also based beyond belief though so you should play them both. If you're an N64 guy and don't like one of them then you're a proper faggot.

[Anonymous No.10645435]

>>10644728
nah

[Anonymous No.10645479]

>>10642648
Mario 64 is the perfect blend of fluidity and inertia. You are a homosexual who prefers black penis. Good day to you.

[Anonymous No.10645884]

>>10642648
absolutely shit taste, xoom xoom contrarian retard

[Anonymous No.10645887]

>>10642648
Murder cubeshitters

[Anonymous No.10647454]

If they remade Banjo updated him to be way more mobile, what is the bear sorely lacking in that they could add?

I know Mario's dive is extremely important for example but not why. I don't know what tools they could give the bear that would help give his movement more nuance

[Anonymous No.10647478]

>>10642617
Fpbp

[Anonymous No.10648212]

>>10644493
Then it's a two-hit wonder, the franchise died with a two year lifespan. Still good games though

[Anonymous No.10650050]

>>10642612
Does Mario have a single strong point over Banjo besides

>being the first one
>having legitimately way better movement

I feel like Banjo puts Mario to shame in literally every other category

[Anonymous No.10652240]

>>10642612
Banjo and it's not even close. Mario 64 has flexible movement and not much else. It's for all intents and purporses a tech demo for the N64.

Banjo meanwhile is fantastic in every other regard. It has fun characters and writing, great levels, solid level design, phenomenal music that's dynamic, good melee options, etc. Even it's movement isn't exactly a slouch either, Kazooie adds so much to the game.

>>10642658
It's no coincidence how every Mario game past 64 takes more and more elements from BK. Sunshine also has Kazooie's main gimmicks with the FLUDD.

[Anonymous No.10653460]

>>10642612
One of these games is short and fun throughout, while the other is longer than it has to be and progressively becomes less fun.

[Anonymous No.10653467]

>>10650050
Mario 64's character control is remarkably unique and dynamic. Banjo controls quite well but is sluggish compared to Mario. Mario 64 is a genuine attempt to map classic Mario gameplay to 3D, which Nintendo has strayed away from

[Anonymous No.10653776]

>>10653460
Both those descriptions describe both of them, lol

[Anonymous No.10653837]

>>10650050
>>10653467
holy shit I didn't even read the second bulletpoint I am tired from school. I think the movement itself is massive to the essence of the game and removing that point from analysis is retarded

[Anonymous No.10653874]

>>10653837
>removing that point from analysis is retarded

Hmm golly gee that's convenient, I guess that means you get to dodge the question without answering it

[Anonymous No.10653891]

>>10650050
>>10653874
Okay. I think that the music and art direction of mario 64 is wonderfully subdued compared to banjo's hokey kitsch. Most mario 64 stages have a few stars that really make you scratch your head for a while and start scouring the level for clues, banjo is much more straightforward and thematic than mysterious. Mario doesn't really care about a lot of things. One time I had 4 stars active and ready for collection in the Haunted Boo level, while it was disappointing that I couldn't pick them all up in one run, it was highly satisfying in a way that banjo simply can't compare with

[Anonymous No.10653945]

>>10653891
I like Mario's music it's just such a goddamn shame so much of it gets reused. I mean shit even just copy-pasting a music track but then SLIGHTLY changing it to make a variant using different music instruments or whatever would have helped so so much. That "slider" song especially needed an alternate variant if they were gonna use it so much

I thought of a point where Mario objectively is better over the bear. Completion % required to beat the final boss. Holy SHIT it's unforgivably strict in BK and it makes the game way worse off

[Anonymous No.10653982]

>>10653945
I didn't mind that too much. Banjo 1 is very comfortable to 100% besides mumbo tokens. Mario 64 would be been entire ass if it required close to 100%. Later mario stages are unfortunately tedious, the smorgasbord approach was necessary because of the game's own weakness of content bloat.

[Anonymous No.10654150]

>>10642612
Mario, because it has a better framerate.

[Anonymous No.10654728]

>>10642612
Kazooie, the controls aged like fine wine. You can actually control the camera better than all of its competitors at the time and nobody ever talks about that. Level design? Also ahead of its time. No beef against Mario 64 but its levels are set up more to be a tech demo. Banjo's world is fully realized with walls, collision areas and bottomless pits cleverly tailored around a full connected environment while still retaining its challenge as a platformer. No immersion breaking there.

[Anonymous No.10654741]

Kazooie. The controls aged like fine wine. You can actually control the camera better than all of its competitors at the time and nobody ever talks about that. Level design? Also ahead of its time. No beef against Mario 64 but its levels are set up more to be a tech demo. Banjo's world is fully realized with walls, collision areas and bottomless pits cleverly tailored around a fully connected environment while still retaining its challenge as a platformer. No immersion breaking there.

[Anonymous No.10654762]

when I think about playing SM64 I don’t get that chore mentality that brings me down and says “there’s other things you could be doing with your time!”

[Anonymous No.10654960]

>>10654741
>while still retaining its challenge as a platformer
I don't think Kazooie has any challenge beyond maybe one or two rooms. Meanwhile some of the final M64 stars can be quite tense.

[Anonymous No.10654967]

>>10644280
>Exploring an underwater city
I know they call it a city. but its barely a neighborhood.
The dimensions of a modest house probably cover 75% of that "city"

[Anonymous No.10654974]

>>10644741
>>10644741
>I feel like I've heard tell of 90s Japanese games having a kabuki influence to the structure of their narrative and presentations not even overt reference
kabuki is an anagram for bukaki.

[Anonymous No.10654983]

>>10643019
I like Sunshine as well, but that guys still a fag. I can consistently 100% SM64 with pure keyboard controls, every week.

[Anonymous No.10654989]

>>10642624
>3D platformer
Banjo-Kazooie is not a platformer. At all. It is a collectathon. You walk your way up spiral mountain and then walk your way up Mumbo's mountain collecting junk along the way. In Treasure Trove Cove, you don't just get around by walking, but you then avoid all platforming by having the ability to literally hover in place with full control of your altitude and direction at all times. Gobi's Desert... more walking, Bubble Gloop Swamp... walking over bridges. Clankers Cavern? You swim everywhere. Freezeezy Peak? You walk and fly, no platforming. Rusty Bucket Bay, need to get up high? No need to jump up platforms, we've put ladders everywhere. Mad Monster Mansion? Walk everywhere, climb drainage pipes. Click Clock Wood, not just unlimited flight in bee form, you can literally walk your way up the tree. What? Because you jump a few times, it's a platformer? Nope. Never was, never will be. There aren't any other platformers like Mario 64. The fact you would tongue punch the ass of literally any game just to be a contrarian is outright embarrassing.

[Anonymous No.10655000]

>>10644280
I personally like Banjo just a tiny bit more but they're both 10/10 in the end.

[Anonymous No.10655002]

>>10644728
not him but
>summer 2012.
>posting same as I do all year.
>get called summerfag
>post at any point after 2016
>get called an election tourist.
>ai is a thing.
>all my post accused of being ai.
the more things change, I guess.

[Anonymous No.10655008]

>>10645315
>Imagine Banjo-Kazooie's engine room. Now imagine it was in Mario 64
>room
your entire post makes more sense when I remove the word "room" from it.
the first "room" I could think of of was Old King Coal in BT.

[Anonymous No.10655027]

there is some serious derangement here

[Anonymous No.10655121]

>>10642612
Mario 64 because I enjoy Mario's moveset in that game

[Anonymous No.10657179]

>>10642612
Didn't have either growing up but Mario64 is what I prefer in a 3D platformer. I'd argue Banjo does everything better than Mario except in the gameplay. Mario is fun to control, has a wealth of moves that can be combined, every wall is a possibility for a walljump. Banjo is more like your average 3D platformer. There's only one solution for every platform, moves are stiff and in some way lock you out of connecting more moves. Those games can be enjoyable for their own reasons but gameplay that really feels like you can improve on is what I like. The first five minutes of playing SM64 were very different from the last 5 minutes. The first five minutes of Banjo were about the same as the last.

[Anonymous No.10657195]

>>10643279
>Banjo barely feels like a platformer most of the time
Banjo is more of an adventure game in spirit, but opts for platforming instead of point-and-click puzzle mechanics as the central mechanic with which to interface with the game world.

[Anonymous No.10657206]

comparing things is retarded
anyone else like how different sm64 is from literally every other nintendo game? it's so strange in a good way, they're very vulnerable about experimenting with what works and what doesn't and it's something you don't really see with nintendo anymore

[Anonymous No.10657256]

>>10642648
There's nothing to cry about; you're right.

[Anonymous No.10657872]

>>10642640
You're right, if anything, Mario has slippery controls.

[Anonymous No.10659027]

>>10642612
The camera in 64 (and Sunshine and Odyssey) is ASS.
Super Mario 64

[Anonymous No.10659054]

>>10643224
Crash holds that title because it took notes up from the previous game, improving what worked and taking out what didn't
Banjo's idea of a sequel is take the first game and make everything spaced too far and tedious

[Anonymous No.10659315]

>>10642612
for a single playthrough, Banjo is much better
but for replayability, mario 64 is better.

[Anonymous No.10660351]

>>10642612
Mario because that's the one I grew up with and I have nostalgia for it.

[Anonymous No.10660385]

>>10657179
>I'd argue Banjo does everything better than Mario except in the gameplay.
Agreed, but I don't like Mario's gameplay enough to put it over Banjo. Something about the way he controls in 64 irks me. I think it's got to do with the traction/inertia. Hated it so much towards the end that I never bothered to beat the game. I hate it in Sunshine too, but Galaxy nailed it imo.

[Anonymous No.10660775]

>>10642624
>it got trounced immediately by everything else.

Shut the hell up you sony fanboy, go back to your FMVs!!!