Has anyone here played the old SWAT games?

[Anonymous No.10611739]

Obviously not counting Police Quest: SWAT 1

[Anonymous No.10612286]

>>10611739
Yes. Had a blast playing SWAT 2 and just flashbanging/tear gassing everyone in sight then arresting them. There were no innocents in my game. The terrorists were fun too. I liked that a lot of the time violence would only make things worse. If you treated hostages well and gave them food (also propaganda) there was a chance to recruit them for later missions. Was always better to send in people with shit skills and surrender to SWAT for potentially better people later. Was pretty controversial game mechanic at the time.

SWAT 3 is still one of the best tactical shooters out there. Remember being blown away by being able to order individual teams around and having to clear areas room by room.

Overall good series (except 1 which was only fun when you were doing dumb stuff). SWAT 4 is great too.

[Anonymous No.10612314]

Yeah, I loved SWAT 3. I played a bunch of it on the first PC I ever owned.

[Anonymous No.10612432]

>>10611739
Is it worth checking out 3 if you've already played 4? 4 is my favorite fps game and every time there's a sale on GOG I wanna get 3 but I haven't been able to justify it.

[Anonymous No.10612510]

>>10612432
3 has better level design, better AI, and better ballistics, so SWAT 3 is probably the better game. SWAT 4 just has graphics.

[Anonymous No.10612939]

I actually still have the swat 2 strategy guide somewhere

>you dont know what the hell youre doing!

[Anonymous No.10612992]

>>10612432
3 and 4 are two different games. SWAT 4 on max difficulty emphasizes minimizing casualties, arresting suspects, and etc. moreso than SWAT 3. Since your score is directly tied to those aspects, you cannot progress to the next mission on Elite utilizing lethal violence unlike SWAT 3. SWAT 3 feels more close to Rogue Spear whereas SWAT 4 stands as its own game with the ROE mechanics attached to it.

[Anonymous No.10612996]

>>10612510
4 has superior atmosphere and gameplay. its a much better experience than the jank you keep pushing on people

[Anonymous No.10613572]

>>10612996
>gameplay
lel, SLOW4 gameplay is utter garbage

>every weapon on full auto just spazzes out to the ceiling
>guns feel dull as shit
>level scaling feels all sorts of wrong, corridors are all too narrow and claustrophobic in very unrealistic way
>glitchy and buggy NPCs

Raven Shield is the thinking man's game compared to 4, and even then Rogue Spear/SWAT3 are superior games.

[Anonymous No.10613583]

>>10611739
Hang on, why not counting Police Quest Swat?
It was full of important, accurate, SWAT procedures and scenarios and was an important advancement toward the swat games that came after.

[Anonymous No.10614395]

>>10612996
>the jank you keep pushing on people
>the jank

SWAT 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQBQOYBlTv0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ipLsruWJCs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeV8V2ne018
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58w-VLV0gEU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Doiim4ee00

SWAT 4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzLBSPj-9HY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11i4HUTgx9g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mIwUESmPfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEHnFNYK56M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Zmz1A3V9D4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4DXvcDFDhA

[Anonymous No.10614448]

>>10613583
Because it was basically an FMV game.

[Anonymous No.10616204]

>>10613572
>Raven Shield is the thinking man's game compared to 4
there's no 'thinking' in raven shield. its literally 'scan next room with heartbeat sensor + smoke corner' the entire game on elite.

[Anonymous No.10616376]

>>10616204
As opposed to
>optiwand door
>flashbang and clear

For SWAT 4?

[Anonymous No.10616431]

>>10616376
ill bite. i generally think most of these tactical shooters are very shallow in their 'tactical' aspects despite having that label.


RS3 is definitely a harder game than SWAT 4. because every AI has its reaction time set to ZERO on max difficulty, their accuracy is generally high, and entering their FOV = death especially when there are 2 looking at you in the same direction. since enemy locations are randomized, and i guarantee nearly every fucking room has 2+ soldiers. you have to abuse smoke; it shuts off their AI and renders them blind as long as you stand in it. you can easily take out 5+ terrorists doing this every mission and its insanely repetitive. and the game repeats levels to top out the repetition.

SWAT 4 is repetitive. but the enemy AI is more forgiving, has a slower reaction time, and is a bit noticeably more erratic in suspect reactions. which makes it infinitely more tolerable over RS3. because it's not a necessity to use the optiwand in every situation like RS3's heartbeat sensor.

[Anonymous No.10616456]

>>10616431
>ill bite. i generally think most of these tactical shooters are very shallow in their 'tactical' aspects despite having that label.
They aren't, you're just a reductionist.

>reaction time
Then play on a lower difficulty that doesn't force you to abuse strats. It's like playing Ninja Gaiden Black on Master Ninja difficulty and complaining about the lack of options since you're forced to spam Izuna Drop and Flying Swallow.

[Anonymous No.10616504]

>>10616431
Have you considered the fact that you might just completely fucking suck at tactical shooters?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv5jxoZ0rrM

[Anonymous No.10616510]

>>10616204
hearbeat sensor and smoke grenades are cheating, anyone self-aware enough won't use those baby mode items

there are also mods that make enemies patrol instead of being stationary which makes game a lot more fun. and then there are also shitton of weapon mods that rebalance the entire gameplay loop as you can now reliably move and shoot at the same time instead of move > spot enemy > stop dead in the tracks > right click to fine aim

And yes enemies are bullshit on highest difficulty but its still doable and fun. If you are a scrub there are still two other lower difficulties for you to choose.

[Anonymous No.10616539]

>>10616456
>They aren't, you're just a reductionist.

you know. ive never really played one that actually made ME take a shitload of variables in accomplishing a situation. they manage to be shallower than doom 2, where there are some variables in say, killing certain monsters and avoiding damage, pinkies hordes could be stalled from enclosing you by circle strafing in and out of their attack ranges, pissed off martians encouraged you to haul ass out of an area as they revive every fucker you just killed, chaingunners encourage you to use the nearest AI or wall as cover to avoid taking damage. and when these situations mix and match, it's a lot of fun figuring what takes priority.

RS3 manages to have ONE FUCKING SOLUTION FOR 90% OF ITS ENCOUNTERS AND IM TOLD ITS NOT FUCKING SHALLOW DESPITE PEOPLE FUCKING ADMITTING ITS THE CHEESE STRAT, AND THE ONLY WORTHWHILE FUCKING STRAT SINCE EVERY OTHER GADGET IS FUCKING GARBAGE COMPARED TO THOSE ITEMS BY A GOOD METRIC SINCE THE ENEMY DESIGN IN THIS FUCKING GAME IS:

HITSCAN DUDE WITH GUN (ZERO REACTION TIME IN THE FUCKING GAME CODE) WHO MOSTLY STANDS IN PLACE. IF YOU LITERALLY 'LEAN' INTO THEIR VIEW. YOU FUCKING DIE. THERE ARE 50 OF THEM ON SOME LEVELS.
>Then play on a lower difficulty that doesn't force you to abuse strats
No.

[Anonymous No.10616550]

>>10616504

Red Storm are a bunch of hacks. There's almost no fucking creativity in RS3 outside of its level design. none. the design behind it fucking sucks. it should have been obvious when they stripped command functions like 'cover' from rogue spear for no fucking reason. when commands are bound to a fucking wheel as opposed to a hotkey like SWAT 3 where speed is more important than ever.

when armor serves literally no fucking use besides impeding noobs. because the TTK is so fucking low that any handicap it would provide is irrelevant. when slows down your character actions considerably to make a slow game even fucking slower.

when every fucking gadget is rendered irrelevant by the heart beat sensor + smoke combo. all this effort stuck into animating, coding, etc. these items and they manage to be more fucking worthless than Hugo SF3. when the planning phase is still separate from the action phase WHEN FUCKING GHOST RECON MERGED THEM INTO ONE QUITE EFFICIENTLY AND MAKING THE UI FUCKING WORSE THAN ROGUE SPEAR. FUCKING HOW? YOU LITERALLY DID IT CORRECTLY IN THE FUCKING PREVIOUS GAME YOU CUNTS.

every fucking attempt to gamify any 'realistic' elements fall fucking flat.

almost no fucking ballistic simulation, wall penetration is reduced mostly to doors and the occasional static surface. cant wallbang dudes with my fucking 50 cal through this fucking plaster wall 4 some reason. any kind of verticality being only ladders as opposed to rappeling, climbing walls manually, vaulting, OR FUCKING ANYTHING. almost no fucking enemy or AI variation outside of scripted triggers on occasion. all these elements you could look at and nothing was implemented despite TWO WHOLE FUCKING EXPANSIONS.


a good example of superfluous shit in this game. AI surrenders on occasion but has no noticeable impact. you can straight up fucking kill them with no penalty. unless there's some element that it plays with past the repeating airport mission, this is fucking useless.

[Anonymous No.10617346]

>>10616539
>>10616550
>they're shallower than doom 2
Your ignorance is not a fault of the game.

>One solution for 90% of its encounters
As opposed to having one solution for ALL encounters like in Doom 2 with just using the shotgun?

>EVERY OTHER GADGET IS GARBAGE
>FUCKING ADMITTING ITS CHEESE STRAT
Sounds like a "you" problem. Video I just posted had some korean dude going through the first level without utilizing the Heartbeat sensor or smoke grenades a single time, on the hardest difficulty.

>HITSCAN
The distances that Rainbow six takes place in means there would literally be zero difference between a guy with hitscan weapons and weapons that actually tracked the trajectory of a bullet.

>Red Storm are a bunch of hacks
>RS3 sucks
I'm particularly fond of RS1 and 2 myself more-so over 3.

>SWAT 3 where speed is more important than ever
wut? lmao

>armor serves literally no fucking use
It's meant to offer defense against smaller caliber arms. AR's and sniper rifles will not really be impeded much.

>when every fucking gadget is rendered irrelevant
Frag grenades, stun grenades, and breach charges are immensely useful. Many times you don't even have to use a grenade if you breach it at the right moment.

I agree that Rainbow Six 3 is the weakest of the trilogy, but also consider the fact that it was Ubi Soft's studios that were primarily in control of development for it, not Red Storm.

[Anonymous No.10617384]

>>10614448
Yeah this is the only one I played it’s videos of an lapd guy talking most of the time. I only got it cause I liked the original police quest games and didn’t like it.

[Anonymous No.10617443]

>>10616539
>you know. ive never really played one that actually made ME take a shitload of variables in accomplishing a situation. they manage to be shallower than doom 2,

Hyperbole will get you nowhere, especially with cringe-ass takes like this. Taking your comparison seriously for a second, instead of throwing it in the pile of retard-garbage with the all the other faggot-ass stupid takes on this board, the only factors in Doom 1 and 2 are monster types and explosive barrels, and that's literally it. You don't need half your arsenal because the plasma gun and shotgun will do everything perfectly fine. Tactical shooters have fewer enemy types, but the AI for them is much smarter than anything in Doom. Do pinkies actively give cover fire and try to flank you? Can they throw grenades? Can they open doors and flee? No, they cannot. Assuming you're just aggravated, whatever, but let's be honest with here, Doom's AI is puerile dogshit, and the reason people play tactical shooters is not to focus on running and gunning and shooting demons that throw fireballs, it's to be challenged by situations where you can be killed quickly, and you have to factor in all the variables of the environment lest you become flanked or ambushed by the AI which can out-maneuver you. I've never been as angry while playing a Doom game as I have been while playing a tactical shooter, but I've also never had as much of a huge sigh of relief and feeling of satisfaction while playing Doom, as I have had while playing virtually any tactical shooter.

[Anonymous No.10619258]

>>10616539
>>10616550
>unironically getting triggered and filtered by one of the most introductory-tier tactical shooters out there

I jej

[Anonymous No.10619318]

>>10617346
>I agree that Rainbow Six 3 is the weakest of the trilogy,
concession accepted. its probably the worst in the entire series excluding lockdown.
>>10617443
most of this isnt worth responding to. im told im being reductivist. but fucking doom 1/2 has more going on it, it completely eschews any sense of 'grounded' design for its levels facilitating traps, puzzles, and even setpieces where you literally have to run a chain of explosives.

i wouldnt expect YOU to fucking analyze correctly. you dont even realize there's deliberately unique designs to most of the cast to facilitate a chess like set of enemies. that's not the fucking case for 'reelistic' tactical shooters in any aspect. who deliberately have this obsession with being 'grounded' despite any attempts to gamify elements being half assed. only operation flashpoint and ARMA whatever simulator crap even accomplish this correctly at the expense of them having NO DESIGN WHATSOEVER to their game mechanics.

the concept of 'smart' AI here is really subjective. RS3 has enemies that are capable of performing more 'action' over a doom enemy. but they are distinctly 'dumb' anyways. their pathfinding will get them stuck on doors, they 'rarely' throw grenades and on occasion kill themselves with it, they seem capable of couching or going prone and they never utilize it cleverly, they can be cheesed near ladders as they 'pursue' or 'investigate' and you can freely dome them as they climb.

of course, they turn into fucking retards when smoke nades are employed. you can literally stand in the cloud and dome their buddies one by one as they stand in a radius of three feet next to each other. they only have one fucking thing notable, 0 reaction time, which is not fucking realistic at all bud.

theyre quite 'dumb' by all means, and regardless, the enemy design is dogshit and uncreative. by mission 5 you've seen everything this game has to offer.

[Anonymous No.10619359]

>>10617443
>the reason people play tactical shooters is not to focus on running and gunning and shooting demons that throw fireballs, it's to be challenged by situations where you can be killed quickly, and you have to factor in all the variables of the environment lest you become flanked or ambushed by the AI which can out-maneuver you
this is explicitly something i barely seen used efficiently in terms of AI actions in tactical shooters, let alone RTT games. the commandos games, faces/men of war, RS, joint operations, delta force, h&d, etc. they just have AI that obliterates you very quickly. its not smart design.

the games ive seen AI do these actions (with efficiency) is fucking Halo and FEAR. not 'tactical' shooters.

if i wanted to deal with 'variables of the environment', i would legitimately play any RTT game. where control of a battlefield is key to mission victory. Men of War's second soviet level is known for being very difficult. you have to control many variables in the environment! you have to set up defenses to stop a fucking blitzkreig! plant mines! reposition your snipers to high elevation! destroy holes in walls or building to create murderholes for your heavy machine guns! scavenge the battlefield for AT grenades and abandoned vehicles to prepare for the next wave! plant soldiers with return fire-only options in bushes to conceal themselves, and then take direct control of them to firebomb passing panzers!

did i mention you take full control of an individual or vehicle? You can play it like a fucking shooter on a granular level!

the only thing i can see going for these games is:
they have nonlinear levels in SP components, tailored for mostly combat as opposed to finding gay keys or something. that's a plus ill give the subgenre.

stuff like CS clearly has its benefits.

if i legitimately wanted to play peek a boo with hitscan enemies anyways that shoot you instantly. ill just play COD or Blood. at least enemies die funny in blood.