/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.10608232]

Are the Splinter Cell games worth playing?

[Anonymous No.10608240]

>>10608232
If you like stealth games than yeah, the most popular and well remembered stealth games sans metal gear are probably worth playing

[Anonymous No.10608250]

>>10608232
Considering that Tom Clancy hated videogames and it was never a secret that these only exist as pro-American propaganda, I'd say that they're surprisingly good. Sure the story is often absolutely retarded, but the games are really entertaining.

[Anonymous No.10608262]

>>10608232
>First two games
are in my opinion the best games Sam is supposed to be Laura Croft with taticool gear and they understood the job
>Chaos Theory
Refined the stealth but ended up killing Sam mobility despite being better than Pandora Tomorrow the level design could have been better if they didn't downgrade sam movement
>Double Agent
Since it's a /vr/ board the last gen version is the best version of the game and acts as an expansion disk for chaos theory unlike the dumbed down new gen version, which isn't bad contrary to what critics say.

In conclusion, MGS is better only because of Kojima's creativity and because it has a better gameplay loop. I think only games like Thief and Hitman have gameplay loops as good if not better than MGS.

[Anonymous No.10608274]

SC 1 is rough around the edges and very linear but it has some memorable levels

PT is also linear and a more boring version of 1. None of the highs but also none of the lows of the first one. More remembered for it's online multiplayer than the single campaign.

CT is the masterpiece of the series, more open ended levels, additional objectives, loadouts, great audiovisuals.

DA (retro version) plays like a less inspired version of CT with shitty "loyalty" mechanics and a terrible story. Vastly overrated by "hidden gem" peddlers.

[Anonymous No.10608380]

Chaos theory is quite good. Not Thief levels but very good anyway.

[Anonymous No.10608395]

To me the best SC is SC1 Demo. I mean, no other SC managed to impress me as much for the second time.

[Anonymous No.10608401]

also, word of advice: avoid the PS2/GC versions, focus on XBOX and PC

[Anonymous No.10608403]

also, word of advice: avoid the PS2/GC versions, focus on XBOX and PC (DA version excepted, which you should opt for the XBOX version)

[Anonymous No.10608424]

>>10608403
Sweet. I got lucky and found the whole Xbox trilogy at a yardsale for a buck each.

[Anonymous No.10608443]

>>10608232
1-3 are the peak of the series. Double Agent is where it starts to falter.

[Anonymous No.10608449]

>>10608262
>better if they didn't downgrade sam movement
there's more to movement than just going fast. the fidelity you can creep with in ct is very nice.

[Anonymous No.10608458]

>>10608262
Dumb post. The gameplay is head-and-shoulders above anything MGS has ever done. The only possible superiority MGS has is in its story-telling, which is more cinematic and engaging (even if it is retarded).

I don't even see how you could possibly say the gameplay is better in MGS. You literally walk around boxy environments on a 2D plane with a minimal amount of options at your disposal. Splinter Cell has both vertical and horizontal movement and exploration and wildly different levels of interactivity and choice in almost every situation. Splinter Cell is superior.

[Anonymous No.10608467]

>>10608250
>these only exist as pro-American propaganda
that is what they nominally are of course but I would say they're mostly pretty even keeled as far as military stuff goes. Sam is quite cynical about being a glorified mercenary thug, and a lot of the plots involve third echelon having to work around American corruption and wingnuttery,

[Anonymous No.10608478]

>>10608458
>The gameplay is head-and-shoulders above anything MGS has ever done.
I think saying this so definitively when you're talking about something that includes mgs3 implies you're not really operating in good faith.

[Anonymous No.10608484]

>>10608458
It's about design, Kojima does a lot with the limited sandbox of the characters and each playthrough is very different from the other. Meanwhile Splinter Cell loops end up being very similar to each other and can't compare with Hitman, Thief, MGS and even Deus EX

[Anonymous No.10608580]

>>10608250
>"pro-American propaganda"
>developed by chinese & french studios
i'd say you're full of shit but the modern warfare series of CoDs constantly jerk off the british special forces and those are designed by americans.

[Anonymous No.10608586]

>>10608240
Yeah, it's definitely worth playing Thief and Deus Ex

[Anonymous No.10608775]

>>10608232
yes

[Anonymous No.10608834]

>"Killed by a ninja... cool!"

[Anonymous No.10608904]

>>10608250
Tom Clancy's books are bad and he doesn't have anything to do with any aspect of his franchise nowadays. Red Storm Rising is a ridiculous piece of american propaganda and it only got worse from there.

But anyways, I've played sc 2-4 and would say chaos theory is the best followed by double agent. Don't even bother with Pandora Tomorrow, everything is just way too dated.

[Anonymous No.10608941]

>>10608904
Of course he doesn’t have anything to do with things; he’s dead and has been for awhile

[Anonymous No.10608979]

>>10608904
>and he doesn't have anything to do with any aspect of his franchise nowadays.
yeah guy just stopped giving a fuck when he died.

[Anonymous No.10608986]

>>10608941
>>10608979
Even before that many of "his" books were ghostwritten. OP center like entirely for instance

[Anonymous No.10609135]

>>10608834
>Lasers? Lasers are s-
>90s?
>I was going to say 70s, could you PLEASE stop making me feel old?
>got bad news for you Sam... you ARE old.

>This wireless stuff makes life a lot easier.
>Yup. Welcome to the wi-fi era.
>Remember, you're saying that to a guy from the era of hi-fi.
>Hi-fi? As in like, high in fiber?
>Ugh... Don't put me in adult undergarments yet, kid.

[Anonymous No.10609140]

>>10608458
>Splinter Cell has both vertical and horizontal movement and exploration and wildly different levels of interactivity and choice in almost every situation.
yeah. so does MGS 2/3/4. thats why you can climb over ledges and shimmy to drop to lower platforms in MGS2. which plays a role in getting past guards faster and avoiding trapped floors that make you fall into the ocean.

the level design in MGS2 goes into more nonlinear design with big shell, which is explicitly more open than any SC game barring Blacklist's levels. even the more linear MGS3 has more distinct levels over SC.
>with a minimal amount of options at your disposal
explicitly bullshit if you played these games back 2 back. at max difficulty, you'll be finding yourself utilizing more mechanics in MGS over SC. explicit reasons to use nonlethal moreso than lethal, and even lethal weapons have explicit uses outside of direct combat. it is explicitly the harder game and you are FUCKING LYING if you say the opposite.

[Anonymous No.10609154]

>Splinter Cell thread
>insecure MGS fanboys lose their shit
every single time.

[Anonymous No.10609180]

>>10609135
One of the better levels. I think displace international is the most complex. I suspect you can play through the entire game without having to k/o any guard beyond the assassination targets

[Anonymous No.10609185]

>>10608458
mgs has more guards per area. Every single engagement is splinter cell I've seen has 2 guys per area and at most 3. What this means if you're being sloppy is you can cap the first guy silently and then open up on the second with impunity. A clean headshot with the pistol will not get guards to start shooting, they will only investigate

[Anonymous No.10609190]

Adding that cool little electronics jammer thing onto the pistol was a giga-brain idea.

[Anonymous No.10609221]

>>10609180
>I suspect you can play through the entire game without having to k/o any guard
You can but Seoul and Bathhouse can be extremely frustrating to ghost.

[Anonymous No.10609242]

>>10608478
>>10608484
>something that includes MGS3
I've beaten MGS3 around 4 or 5 times, and it's definitely better than MGS1 or 2, but in terms of being a stealth game, Splinter Cell has better stealth mechanics.

>and each playthrough is very different from one another
That's not really that true at all, at least not until you get to MGS4 and 5. MGS3 has some leniency, but generally speaking you're extremely limited in how you can approach your objective, and this is ESPECIALLY true for MGS1 and 2 where if you go loud, you play "wait out the timer", when everything goes back to nice and normal, while if you alert someone in Splinter Cell, they stay alerted the entire level until you take them out.

MGS is also not even in the same league as Hitman or Thief in terms of player sandbox, of which there isn't any. Every approach is identical, every solution is the same as the last, and every encounter has the same exact repetitive gameplay cycle. You can't say the same about Splinter Cell, even in its most linear levels.

>>10609140
The "verticality" in MGS1 and 2 has the same level of depth as Doom does, IE, very little. Saying it has "Verticality" is the same thing as saying a midget has a "decent jump", for it's size, sure, but in comparison to actual games that have it as a primary facet of their gameplay, it's a joke and not really comparable.

>the level design in MGS2 goes into more nonlinear design with big shell
Yes, full of backtracking where the only option is instead of running down this corridor, you go down THAT corridor. Riveting. Splinter Cell meanwhile has completely different infiltration points on the map that can be on opposite ends, like in Chaos Theory on the Cargo Ship level which is basically like a living and breathing jungle gym.

>you'll be finding yourself utilizing more mechanics in MGS over SC.
No, you won't be. I played through all of them. Splinter Cell is objectively more deep gameplay wise, not even a comparison.

[Anonymous No.10609262]

>>10609185
>MGS has more guards per area
I'm not even sure if this argument is accurate. Have you played Pandora Tomorrow? Chaos Theory? Double Agent? There's guards everywhere. Maybe in Splinter Cell 1 that was true, but one of the things about Splinter Cell is not just the lethality is more severe, but the risk of getting caught is steeper. Just recalling Pandora Tomorrow on the level where you infiltrate the Sub, there's gotta be at least a dozen guards.

[Anonymous No.10609280]

>>10609135
>I was going to say 70s, could you PLEASE stop making me feel old?
>got bad news for you Sam... you ARE old.

Fucking kino moment. The first time a game ever made me feel like a badass spec-ops super spy.

[Anonymous No.10609318]

>>10608904
>Tom Clancy's books are bad and he doesn't have anything to do with any aspect of his franchise nowadays. Red Storm Rising is a ridiculous piece of american propaganda and it only got worse from there.
Butthurt tankie. Tom Clancy was awarded a special military merit for his services and writing his books due to their accuracy, and they regularly got decent to good critical reviews (like for instance, with the exact book you mentioned, Red Storm Rising, in fact being considered one of his most widely lauded books for its accuracy, believability, and informativeness).

You sound like a butthurt retard who has no idea what he's talking about, honestly.

[Anonymous No.10609329]

>>10608986
>Even before that many of "his" books were ghostwritten.
There's a list of all works that were written under his name but not by him.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Clancy_bibliography

You aren't clever for pointing this out. He still personally wrote 19 individual novels, almost every single one of which was a best seller, and over half of which were critically acclaimed.

[Anonymous No.10609368]

>>10609262
I have been playing Chaos theory on ps2 extensively recently. The typical engagement Sam faces is two guys in near proximity to each others. Sometimes talking. Occasionally a third man will be thrown in some distance away to investigate a disturbance.

So the metagame is basically what I've just described. You can be tricky about it and disable electronics, knife the guards in proximity etc but it is almost always a scenario where you cap the first guy and then the second one comes to investigate the noise. MGS will have more guys per area and once they ring the alert will go out and try and find you. CT you can cause a disturbance and after maybe 3 minutes the alert is over.

>>10609318
Red Storm Rising is simply American propaganda where the technobabble is tacked on to give it a degree of plausibility. Around the time the war in europe opens up in the book every engagement is a soviet loss. I think the most ridiculous bit was when they took the pov of a tank battalion on the ground and how these guys were supposedly stonewalling a soviet force significantly larger. Of course the American establishment loved this guy and he went on to write more junk consulting with generals valorizing the American marines and whatnot. Jack Ryan is like the unofficial mascot of the CIA, there's never any moral ambiguity in the story

[Anonymous No.10609501]

>>10609368
>The typical engagement Sam faces is two guys in near proximity to each others. Sometimes talking. Occasionally a third man will be thrown in some distance away to investigate a disturbance.
Depends on your definition of "area". Lots of areas in each level are interconnected and alerting guards can pull guards from other areas into that specific "area". That being said, I didn't notice a particularly high density of guards in MGS1 or 2. At most you have roughly the same amount as in Splinter Cell, maybe 1 or 2 more.

>MGS will have more guys per area and once they ring the alert will go out and try and find you. CT you can cause a disturbance and after maybe 3 minutes the alert is over.
No, but they will put on helmets and armored vests and generally be more alert in Chaos Theory. They also notice if lights have been turned off or shot out, if doors were left open, and if there are cuts in fabric. Generally the AI is significantly smarter and more fine-tuned to their environment than in any MGS game I've played.

>Red Storm Rising is simply American propaganda where the technobabble is tacked on to give it a degree of plausibility.
Sounds like an intelligence issue.

>Around the time the war in europe opens up in the book every engagement is a soviet loss.
So?

> I think the most ridiculous bit was when they took the pov of a tank battalion on the ground and how these guys were supposedly stonewalling a soviet force significantly larger.
You mean like Ukraine?

>Jack Ryan is like the unofficial mascot of the CIA, there's never any moral ambiguity in the story
Jack Ryan is the impetus for the story to move forward and the recognizable hero who is meant to be the base for the reader to relate to.

[Anonymous No.10609508]

>>10608424
If you have a Series X or Xbox One X you can play the original discs in native 4K.

[Anonymous No.10609526]

>>10609368
You didn't read the book at all. Soviet Navy somehow miraculously achieves a victory in a fair fight with a US Battle Carrier group, and the only reason the advance is able to be halted in Germany is because stealth bombers destroy key bridges and access points.

[Anonymous No.10609538]

>>10608232
Chaos Theory > Splinter Cell > Pandora Tomorrow > POWER GAP > Double Agent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Conviction

[Anonymous No.10609548]

>>10608250
>Considering that Tom Clancy hated videogames

You may be retarded. He co-founded Red Storm Entertainment. Kind of an odd thing to do if you "hate video games".

[Anonymous No.10609550]

>>10609548
maybe he hated games but loved money

[Anonymous No.10609552]

>>10609550
Yea, that would be a fine theory, if it wasn't stupid and wrong.

[Anonymous No.10609561]

>even suggesting that MGS games are on par with SC games
LMAO
SC is a stealth series, MGS is action-oriented mishmash where gameplay serves as a pretense for Kojimbos hollywood-lite storytelling. Stealth in these games is mostly optional, unimpressive, unrewarding and easy. Not to mention, mostly it's meme stuff with cardboxes, facemasks, facepaints and dress-ups that are comical after you play any of the Hitman games.
Not saying MGS is not a good series overall, but rather mediocre as far as stealth goes.
>>10608484
>loops
There are no loops in Hitman, Thief or SC. It's just constant sneaking.
Stop using these stupid buzzwords that don't even apply to most of the games.
>and even Deus EX
>even
Deus Ex 1 is not only one of the best games ever made overall, but also the best stealth game.

[Anonymous No.10609572]

>>10609561
I would say Splinter Cell has more involved stealth mechanics Deus Ex. Stealth in Deus Ex boils down mostly to crouching and staying out of line-of-sight.

I've also never seen Deus Ex AI come close to being this intelligent:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wRjOuCROUA

[Anonymous No.10609575]

>>10608232
The only one in my recent memory is Black Cell which allowed you to to go Ghost, Panther or Assault ways on each level and I mostly enjoyed it.

[Anonymous No.10609583]

>>10609572
The Deus Ex stealth mechanics are the same as Thief's. It's just that the AI is retarded as fuck and has the memory of a fish.

[Anonymous No.10609597]

>>10609561
>Stealth in these games is mostly optional, unimpressive, unrewarding and easy.
playing EE GOID then talk.

[Anonymous No.10609601]

>>10609572
Yeah but on the other hand Deus Ex gives you more entry points and those give you more ways to achieve your goals, so you don't need to just crouch around the whole place but can just stack up a bunch of crates to gain easier access or ask some kid about a secret backdoor entrance.

I guess I'm not gonna argue too much about it since Hitman, SC, Deus Ex and Thief are all very different and at the same time all are great stealth games.

>>10609583
No rope arrow in Deus Ex.

[Anonymous No.10609625]

>>10609597
>Oh so you think the stealth in this game is optional? Well that's because you didn't play THIS optional content bro!
Thanks for proving my point.

[Anonymous No.10609630]

>>10609575
>Black Cell

You mean Blacklist.

[Anonymous No.10609645]

>>10609526
Actually I did, but some time ago. I picked up on the technobabble-is-a-cover thing bout 200 pages through when the girly american pilot shows up and gets a string of flawless victories. The soviet advance being stalled in lmao tier

>>10609501
When I say area I mean people who respond to an engagement. I've replayed each level in the game over 3 times now, you do not have to deal with more than 2 guy segments with an occasional 3rd man thrown in for a challenge. I like CT a whole bunch, it's just that the formula could have been improved on

>an intelligence issue!
Go die for your boss Zelensky 'kipper

[Anonymous No.10609650]

>>10609645
>I picked up on the technobabble-is-a-cover thing bout 200 pages through when the girly american pilot shows up and gets a string of flawless victories.
>girly american pilot
Sounds more like the Soviets were the girly ones, getting railed as hard as they did in that book ayylmao.

[Anonymous No.10609656]

>>10609625
>Thanks for proving my point.
its completely arbitrary you fucking retard. i could easily say the same about thief, SC, or hitman. dont select the hardest settings bro! look how fucking easy and shallow it is!

but i couldnt expect anything from a retard that thinks deus ex, a game where stealth isnt even mandatory, thinks thats the best stealth game.

[Anonymous No.10609660]

Example:

>Level 1, lighthouse
pt 1
>two guys in a cave
>one guy shooting a target
>two guys torturing the civie
pt 2
>one guy in a tent
>one guy next door by a lamp
>one guy outdoors
>two guys talking
>two guys upstairs in a house, one sleeping the other by the fireplace
>one civie by the laptop
pt 3
>two guys talking
>one guy under a lamp
>one guy patrolling by the lighthouse
>one guy at comms
>one guy on top of the lighthouse

This is a pretty typical example of mission progression. A series of encounters with a few guys where sam always starts out with the jump. CT is mostly linear with some level shortcuts but with a lot of variety in how you make the kills. Areas in these encounter segments will often give you a variety of ways to do it which really sets the game above others

[Anonymous No.10609678]

>>10609660
I'll just continue because this is a fun memory exercise

>Level 2, ship
pt 1
>two guys on the deck
>one guy sleeping
>one guy welding
>two guys talking by the pump machinery, one upstairs one down
>two guys who wander out of the corridor after you check the shipping
>three guys in the engine room, the challenge area
pt 2, one of the more nonlinear areas in the game with an optional room
>two guys at a laptop talking
>3 guys in the canteen
>2 guys in the break room
pt 3, another nonlinear area
>one guy on the upper decks
>two guys in the navigation room
>two guys above in the uppermost computer room
>two guys in crew quarters before you get to lacerda
>lacerda and two mercs talking in the captain's quarters
>two guys patrolling the back deck
I think this has some of the most enemies in the game and is only level 2, one of the more memorable

[Anonymous No.10609680]

>>10609645
Your summary of the book is filled with seething rage, so I can only assume you're some slavshit or a slavophile, who's butthurt that his "GLORIOUS SOVIET EMPIRE" which was mere years away from crumbling in real life, got waffle-stomped by a combined NATO force. You sound like a fucking idiot is what I'm basically trying to say.

Secondly:
>I've replayed each level in the game over 3 times now
>you DO NOT have to deal with more than 2 guys and an occasional 3rd
Apart from the fact that I have absolutely zero idea why you are harping on this specific factor so fervently, it's also just completely wrong. Here's a screenshot from Pandora Tomorrow with 4 guys.

Any more stupid claims and passive-aggressive bullshit for you to randomly spew because you're triggered by Tom Clancy?

[Anonymous No.10609681]

>>10608232
First one was amazing at the time. The next two felt like the same ol' same though. Didn't play any later titles or ever replay any of the ones I did play.

[Anonymous No.10609687]

>>10609650
It's just American Propaganda man. That's what he writes, good guy bad guy stories with some understanding of the hardware and troop formations. But the take home message is always very safe red blooded Americana not far removed from John Wayne. If RSR was properly written the soviets would have had much more success in the invasion of western europe

[Anonymous No.10609695]

>>10609680
lol, that's not the case at all. I was reading that before I ever got ridpid. I am talking about a weakness in CT's (and If I recall corectly DA's) design philosophy. I own PT but never got very far in it because the constant saving and linear nature, alongside the very steep decline in Sam's arsenal, just didn't make it interesting to me. I think the nonlethal punching is a great example - CT it's one punch you're down, PT if you do the cuff to the front of a guard it requires like two hits.

[Anonymous No.10609701]

>>10609687
>Just American propaganda bro
Right, just like James Bond is British Propaganda? Get the fuck outta here, retard.

[Anonymous No.10609718]

>>10609660
>>10609678
You realize most of the guys in those "parts" can all be alerted to your presence, right? So you're basically proving his point? You also left out the guy patrolling the wine cellar, who can also be alerted if you somehow signal the two torturing guys, or the guy in the firing range, or all 4 of them at once. Literally debunked in the first stanza of your post.

[Anonymous No.10609720]

>>10609701
Do you seriously read James bond or think his American movies adaptations are good?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaEU_A405zA

[Anonymous No.10609729]

>>10609720
The Spy Who Loved Me is one of the least faithful Bond movies, so thanks for pointing that out.

>or think his American movies adaptations are good?
Which ones are American? Most of them are mostly British productions.

[Anonymous No.10609732]

>>10609718
actually the wine cellar guy is the one shooting targets. I like playing through the game loud (frequently running, breaking all the locks, spooking the guards, using the rifle) so I know how the areas all work

for level 1, the segments are
>the two guys in the cave alert the wine cellar guy if they go to alert
>the guys doing the torture are separate
...
>the guy in the tent and the guy by the lamp, and then the guy outside
>the two guys talking
>the two guys upstairs
>the civie at the computer
...
>the two guys talking
>the guard under the lamp and the man patrolling the lighthouse grounds
>you can spook the radio operator but at most he just opens the door and goes back inside
>the guy on top of the lighthouse

Alerts basically last 2-3 minutes where the guards will wander around their designated zone before going back to what they were doing. the Alarm system does not really change this till you get to stage 4. What I mean by this is that each encounter area is basically a segment to the game where the consequences for getting caught don't really effect the others. The same way 007 goldeneye has like sound areas where firing your gun will alert all enemies in a section but not others

[Anonymous No.10609737]

>>10609732
the really fun way to play CT is to try for no alerts, minimum alarms, no unnecessary kills. I think it's possible to do since sam has all the gear necessary to short lights, distract guards with bottles and whistles, most areas have a stealth alternate route etc

A major complaint I have is that some areas have lights that can't be shorted. It's just stupid

[Anonymous No.10609739]

>>10609732
>actually the wine cellar guy is the one shooting targets.

Thanks for proving you've never played the games. I await your flustered response.

[Anonymous No.10609741]

>>10609739
the ps2 version is slightly different than the pc version in how the areas are presented

[Anonymous No.10609750]

>>10609732
>What I mean by this is that each encounter area is basically a segment to the game where the consequences for getting caught don't really effect the others.
Except for the fact that if you are loud enough, you can trigger guards from other areas.

>The same way 007 goldeneye has like sound areas where firing your gun will alert all enemies in a section but not others
The exact opposite of how the game functions, but okay.

[Anonymous No.10609764]

>>10608232
First three are. Results may vary afterwards.

[Anonymous No.10609842]

>>10609318
>man doing propaganda was awarded a state award for doing propaganda so he's obviously unbiased
Disturbing

[Anonymous No.10610014]

>>10609656
>i could easily say the same about thief, SC, or hitman
No you couldn't you idiot. The core gameplay of those game is stealth regardless of the difficulty you choose. You will get swarmed in those games if you're detected and combat itself is not particularly fun. The stealth in MGS is forced in a couple of sections but other than that there's no reason to be stealthy and there's no risk to being detected. And your response to that is
>just turn on the ironman mode bro
Kek

>a game where stealth isnt even mandatory
It is more mandatory than MGS
Not only that, the game encourages you to do it at provides satisfactory means to achieve it. Meanwhile MGS stealth is just looking at the minimap and avoiding detection cones.
Lmao you console babies are so pathetic.

[Anonymous No.10610030]

>>10608232
Aw shit yeah, son.

[Anonymous No.10610035]

>>10608232
no, they are the CoD of stealth games

[Anonymous No.10610036]

>>10609842
>If I say propaganda enough times, that means I can gaslight myself and others into believing it

Truly disturbing.

[Anonymous No.10610038]

>>10610035
You have never played these games, or CoD for that matter.

[Anonymous No.10610041]

>>10610035
You're thinking of Metal Gear Solid.

[Anonymous No.10610047]

>>10610038
>>10610041
i don't mean in terms of gameplay you faggots i mean in terms of everything else
as >>10608250 already said Splinter Cuck is a glorified pro-burger propaganda for brainless Xbox drones just like CoD

[Anonymous No.10610050]

>>10610047
>game places you in the role of American forces
>this now equals propaganda

Retarded and stupid discord raid propaganda. Try again later. Nobody is falling for your really shitty bait, tankie.

[Anonymous No.10610052]

>>10610047
Why do they still let Russians on our internet? Burn that shithole to the ground already.

[Anonymous No.10610057]

>Tom Clancy thread

>leftypol and slavshits eternally seethe endlessly throughout the thread until it hits bump limit

Glorious. Every time.

[Anonymous No.10610072]

>>10610047
So MGS IS, in terms of gameplay, just like Cod i.e. a brainless shooter with some flashy Hollywood-lite scenes? Well there you go, this anon said it.

[Anonymous No.10610073]

>>10610050
there is plenty games where you play as someone as american soldier or a spy but they aren't a cringe cookie cutter USA #1 blatant propaganda
even fucking MGS was not as bad as this despite Kojima being a bigger US cocksucker than Tom Clany, yeah imagine that...
>discord raid
>tankie
lol go back to /vpol/ chud

[Anonymous No.10610080]

>>10610073
>there is plenty games where you play as someone as american soldier or a spy but they aren't a cringe cookie cutter USA #1 blatant propaganda
Where in Splinter Cell does it say "USA #1" you retard?

>even fucking MGS was not as bad as this despite Kojima being a bigger US cocksucker than Tom Clany, yeah imagine that...
Not as bad as what? Point out themes and proofs you stupid vatnigger.

>uses the term chud unironically
Kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.10610081]

>>10610072
>MGS
>brainless shooter
i hate Movie Game Slop as much as the next anon but let's be real there isn't that much of shooting in it compared to Splinter Cunt or DeuSex

[Anonymous No.10610084]

>>10610081
>there isn't that much shooting in it
They give you a fucking rocket launcher in the first game to take down a walking mech.

[Anonymous No.10610092]

>>10610080
>Where in Splinter Cell does it say "USA #1" you retard?
so you didn't play the games? gotcha
>Point out themes and proofs
it depends on the game because Kojima the cocksucker is a wild unstable faggot, take Piss Walker for example it had you killing CIA negroes right and left and supporting a group of revolutionary spics tired of amerimutt imperialism
Splinter Cuck can never ever do something similair, if they made a game in a similar setting they'll have you playing as a burger cooperating with Contra-like fags

[Anonymous No.10610101]

>>10608262
>MGS
>stealth

I miss when we laughed you retards off of /v/

[Anonymous No.10610124]

>>10610052
consider ukranian shill farms have been spamming pol & k while abusing ban reports for over two years every single day.

[Anonymous No.10610134]

>>10610014
>No you couldn't you idiot
yes you can. you fucking retard. you can literally set thief and hitman to their easiest difficulties and you ARE MOSTLY FREE to kill as many people as you like.
>You will get swarmed in those games if you're detected and combat itself is not particularly fun. The stealth in MGS is forced in a couple of sections but other than that there's no reason to be stealthy and there's no risk to being detected
i dont even know to respond to this.

there's an explicit alert phase in MGS that escalates, the further it goes up, the more you lose your radar, the more you get swarmed in combat, and explicitly combat is fucking harder than stealth. like a good stealth game would have.

for MGS2, on extreme, your health is capped at 50. on EE, its 30. most guards will explicitly kill you in a single burst. if they have a shotgun, you're pretty much dead in one shot. there's an explicit reason not to engage in it.

fucking retard.

>Meanwhile MGS stealth is just looking at the minimap and avoiding detection cones
yes. many stealth games are based around avoiding vision cones. glad you think you're smart for putting that out. you can shut off the radar in later titles (dont assume the game is easy because of this).

>It is more mandatory than MGS
i know you're full of shit for stating this. absolutely full of it. it was never 'mandatory', it was completely optional, and deliberately shallow and binary on purpose to serve the freeform action without restriction on going loud or being quiet. Deus Ex was never meant to be hard.

in terms of stealth action games being challenging

hitman>MGS>SC>Thief

the ultimate retard test would be thinking that thief's difficulty even stemmed from its stealth mechanics. i guarantee if somebody says this, they're a fucking tard lol.

[Anonymous No.10610138]

Should I just skip straight to Chaos Theory or will I be lost if I don't play the first 2??

[Anonymous No.10610140]

>>10610101
mgs3 is basically a rambo simulator where the game encourages you to run from concealment to concealment gunning down people

[Chud Anon No.10610143]

>>10609368
>Around the time the war in europe opens up in the book every engagement is a soviet loss

So then it was accurate lmao.

The Warsaw Pact was a complete paper tiger. Their one military operation had half of their members refuse to participate and one permanently withdrawing. It was already game over for the Warsawcels by the 1970’s, their own populations weren’t willing to die to hold up Soviet puppet regimes.

It’s a NATOchad world, you’re just living in it.

[Anonymous No.10610151]

>>10610140
well no wonder i hated it, i was going for full stealth the whole time. what about the game was supposed to encourage me to play differently than the first 2?

[Anonymous No.10610160]

>>10610138
the first two are completely forgettable. ive played them twice over, and i can still barely recall anything significant about them. CT has so many standout moments to it, builds on teh first two quite fine, and it renders them obsolete.

[Anonymous No.10610191]

>>10610092
>so you didn't play the games? gotcha
Playing as a US Agent and doing US Agent things is not "USA NUMBAH JUAN!". No matter how hard you try and gaslight anyone into thinking it is. Find better evidence.

>it depends on the game because Kojima the cocksucker is a wild unstable faggot, take Piss Walker for example it had you killing CIA negroes right and left and supporting a group of revolutionary spics tired of amerimutt imperialism
>Splinter Cuck can never ever do something similair, if they made a game in a similar setting they'll have you playing as a burger cooperating with Contra-like fags
I can't take you seriously since you speak like a dumb, jealous, ESL, thirdie brownoid mutt. Seek some help with your angst over the US having a more dominant culture than yours, because I really don't give a shit that it is.

[Anonymous No.10610195]

>>10610138
No. Play the first two as well. Splinter Cell 1 is considered one of the best video games ever made for a reason.

[Anonymous No.10610203]

>>10608232
>>10609538
>>10610160

I dunno about you guys, but I actually liked Conviction...
It was very streamlined in terms of mechanics but it plays quite well...
Yeah, there are some small glitches and it's somewhat arcady by the series standards but it's fairly enjoyable.
Blacklist is apparently even better but Sam's voice was just...way to different for me to consider playing it...

[Anonymous No.10610206]

>>10610203
Blacklist has the sleek gameplay of Conviction with the approach and tone of Splinter Cell Chaos Theory.

[Anonymous No.10610207]

>>10610151
you figure it out when you play long enough. Once you are in a grass patch you can take potshots and then flee at the searching guards with relative impunity. A great area to learn is the alternate fight with the cobra unit showdown in the end's boss area

[Anonymous No.10610215]

>>10610191
>no argument other than you are Le jealous brownood!!!
and this is why no one takes burger drones seriously
keep eating that CoD and SC goyslop

[Anonymous No.10610231]

>>10610203
The teasers for Conviction looked like a modern day Ass Creed mixed with Hitman. It should have redefined the genre. Instead, we got Pandora Tomorrow 2 because Ubi didn’t want to klobber their own IP.

[Anonymous No.10610236]

>>10610215
>hur dur, no argument othern than you are le jealous brownood
Ironic, coming from the subhuman that just based his entire argument around saying "You didn't play the games", and comparing Peace Walker summarized with meme slurs and discord-tier urban dictionary mutt-tongue, to a hypothetical scenario of Splinter Cell that doesn't even exist.

On top of all of this, Splinter Cell's techno-thriller plotlines are rather inoffensive and are almost apolitical despite dealing heavily and deeply in politics.

So yes, you do sound like a jealous brownoid mutt who is simply butt-flustered at the fact that Splinter Cell is in the annals of gaming history and always will be forever and ever, while focusing on its narrative through the eyes of US agent that doesn't cuck itself into making the player the bad guy to arbitrarily appeal to thirdies like you who are booty-blasted because your limp-dick shit countries house other booty-blasted thirdies that hate America so much you fly passenger jets into them. So no, I will never apologize for anything, and I'm glad you're angry over it.

[Anonymous No.10610245]

>>10610203
I'm really fucking happy this gay fucking "Sam's an outlaw!" archetype died with conviction. It was tolerable enough in Double Agent, as grim and depressing as that game was, but Conviction was jumping the shark with it. Blacklist was a breath of fresh air.

[Anonymous No.10610249]

>>10610215
>hur dur, no argument othern than you are le jealous brownood
Ironic, coming from the subhuman that just based his entire argument around saying "You didn't play the games", and comparing Peace Walker summarized with meme slurs and discord-tier urban dictionary mutt-tongue, to a hypothetical scenario of Splinter Cell that doesn't even exist.

On top of all of this, Splinter Cell's techno-thriller plotlines are rather inoffensive and are almost apolitical despite dealing heavily and deeply in politics.

So yes, you do sound like a jealous brownoid mutt who is simply butt-flustered at the fact that Splinter Cell is in the annals of gaming history and always will be forever and ever, while focusing on its narrative through the eyes of US agent that doesn't cuck itself into making the player the bad guy to arbitrarily appeal to thirdies like you who are booty-blasted because your limp-dick shit countries house other booty-blasted thirdies that hate America so much you fly passenger jets into the US. So no, I will never apologize for anything, and I'm glad you're angry over it.

[Anonymous No.10610256]

>>10610249
>discord
here is that word again, fuck off back to /v/ kiddo we grown ups here do not obsess over discord/twitter/tranny drama

[Anonymous No.10610259]

>>10610256
Keep malding over Splinter Cell and Tom Clancy. Cause that's what grown-ups do, right?

[Anonymous No.10610263]

>>10610231
The teasers from E3 definitely made it look a lot more interesting than it turned out. It looked like you had to deal with blending into crowds a lot more, with influence from Hitman and GTA, and then we just got....whatever the fuck THAT was.

[Anonymous No.10610268]

>>10610249
>Splinter Cell is in the annals of gaming history
only Choas Theory is because it happens to be the one cherry picked game by jornos, e-celebs and posers
the rest of the series is irrelavant and forgotten, this is contrary to other superior stealth franchises such as MGS, Hitman, Thief and Deus Ex... all these franchises ave multiple games still revered and remembered till this unlike Chaos Theory being the only reason SC name is not completely forgotten

[Anonymous No.10610271]

>>10610268
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_games_considered_the_best

>2002
>Splinter Cell 1

OOOOOH, BURN

[Anonymous No.10610315]

>>10610271
>Splinter Cell 1
literally who game, there is a reason the anons ITT are asking if they should just skip the first slops and go directly to Choas Theory
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_games_considered_the_best
>Morroshit
>Reddit Waker
>Reddit City
>Battlefag 1942
>Kingdom HRT
>MeTROON Prime
>Shitcalibur 2
>Warcuck 3
what an embrrassing selection of shitty games, Eternal Darkness is the only decent pick
but hey at least REmake is not here

[Anonymous No.10610317]

>>10610315
Randomly replacing words in titles with insults doesn't make you look any less unhinged and upset than you already do.

[Anonymous No.10610320]

Tim clincy? Nooooooooooo he was the chosen one
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1995-11-23-fi-6506-story.html

[Anonymous No.10610334]

>>10610315
>literally who game, there is a reason the anons ITT are asking if they should just skip the first slops and go directly to Choas Theory

There's also people who post in Mario 64 threads asking if its any good and they should play it. How flimsy can you make your argument?

[Anonymous No.10610342]

>>10610334
>anons asking if they should play Mario 64 first before all of the previous games
same shit as the anons asking if they should start with Chaos Theory

[Anonymous No.10610345]

>>10608232
They're fine. Chaos Theory is the best but for all the neat environmental movement Sam can do, other than forced pipe climbing segments that were the 6th gen's version of uncharted wallclimbing, for the most part every level had big amounted to:
>i can spend 60+ seconds leashing the guard AI to this dark hallway where i split jump and drop on him
or
>i can wait for him to pass and pop him in the head or give him the people's elbow
The level design was not varied enough to mix it up and since all the unique movement mechanics to the game were context specific to those rare encounters you were enticed not to do because basic efficiency it played very much like a shittier Thief with the generations worst TPS gunplay contender. If you can coop then Chaos Theory is absolutely worth it. Single player only if you haven't played the genre's better entries. Tenchu was 7th gen's best non-MGS stealth franchise.

[Anonymous No.10610348]

>>10610342
Are you implying Super Mario World isn't great?

[Anonymous No.10610349]

>>10610315
Is this zoomer having a breakdown because he hates that his elders grew up with ludo?

[Anonymous No.10610352]

>>10610345
>pipe climbing
He did that in the first one.

[Anonymous No.10610356]

>>10610348
it's good but still not popular nor relevant as Mario 64 hence why zoom zooms skip it
the difference with SC1 is not only it's irrelevant compared to Chaos Theory but also it's a shit game

[Anonymous No.10610358]

>>10610345
>The level design was not varied enough to mix it up and since all the unique movement mechanics to the game were context specific to those rare encounters you were enticed not to do because basic efficiency it played very much like a shittier Thief with the generations worst TPS gunplay

The award for "Worst Take of 2024" on /vr/ goes to, none other than, this anon. Boy, and it's not even February.

[Anonymous No.10610359]

>>10610352
I meant the unique movement options for the franchise, not necessarily just for Chaos Theory. Don't even remember what Chaos Theory added, maybe hanging takedowns? Pandora Tomorrow marketed the shit out of the tent slicing mechanic for whatever silly reason.

[Anonymous No.10610363]

>>10610356
Zoomers skip Super Mario World because they hate 2D games. But why are we basing relevancy off of what zoomers like? They have notoriously shit taste.

>the difference with SC1 is not only it's irrelevant compared to Chaos Theory but also it's a shit game
That's a neat opinion, too bad I don't care.

[Anonymous No.10610369]

>>10610358
>bro didn't even mention the taser and he's gonna call the gunplay bad
Copy that

[Anonymous No.10610375]

>>10610359
> Pandora Tomorrow marketed the shit out of the tent slicing mechanic for whatever silly reason.
That was Chaos Theory. Sam didn't have a knife until Chaos Theory. You can also pull people over the sides of railings, and kill enemies while hanging from above them, both of which are very useful and F U N.

[Anonymous No.10610393]

>>10610369
the gunplay as a whole is not good in the first couple games. terrible feedback outside of headshots.

[Anonymous No.10610409]

>>10610345
I never felt like the level design was at fault for CT. The only questionable levels in my mind were the bathhouse and SDF headquarters

[Anonymous No.10610424]

>>10610409
I think the environments were nice looking and varied but the actual gameplay scenarios the layouts created were very basic. You rarely interacted with the Z axis at all and the quiet takedowns in shadowy corners option was too ubiquitous for solving most scenarios. The lighting engine was very impressive actually.

[Anonymous No.10610432]

>>10609630
Yes.

[Anonymous No.10610478]

>>10610424
I do agree, they could have had scenarios with significantly more guys roaming and more oppositional technology that would require jammers. The core of SC is always going to be silent takedowns and hiding out in the shadows though

[Anonymous No.10610490]

Pandora Tomorrow is actually the best
CT casualized things with an open barrage of easy solutions
Look at this absolute ludo
Still best versus next to SC Essentials and DA Gen 1+2

All it needed was some more of the flavor this track provides
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqTPpdZB4UQ

[Anonymous No.10610619]

>>10610345
>it played very much like a shittier Thief
when it does it ever, in its design, controls, or anything, play like fucking thief.

[Anonymous No.10611113]

>>10608232
>1 and Pandora Tomorrow
Yes but keep in mind the controls are kind of awkward at first and have a learning curve. Pandora Tomorrow is basically a standalone expansion to SC1.
>Chaos Theory
Yes yes and yes 110%
>Double Agent
Yes but play the original Xbox version it's completely different from the PC/Xbox 360 version and feels more inline with the spirit of the series' stealth gameplay up to that point.

Anytime you have the choice play the original Xbox version. The PC versions if the first three games are mostly identical but tend to have graphical effects that don't work correctly on modern GPU's without workarounds or other fuckery, the keyboard controls are also even more awkward than playing on a gamepad and it can be difficult to remap them properly. There are Gamecube, Wii, and PS2 ports too but they have shit controls, worse graphics, and low framerates.

[Anonymous No.10611117]

>>10610619
I get bristling at a half assed comparison but come on? how about a light meter and hiding shadows

[Anonymous No.10611125]

>>10608232
>1 and Pandora Tomorrow
Yes but keep in mind the controls are kind of awkward at first and have a learning curve. Pandora Tomorrow is basically a standalone expansion to SC1.
>Chaos Theory
Yes yes and yes 110%
>Double Agent
Yes but play the original Xbox version it's completely different from the PC/Xbox 360 version and feels more inline with the spirit of the series' stealth gameplay up to that point.

Anytime you have the choice play the original Xbox version. The PC versions if the first three games are mostly identical but tend to have graphical effects that don't work correctly on modern GPU's without workarounds or other fuckery, the keyboard controls are also even more awkward than playing on a gamepad and it can be difficult to remap them properly. There are Gamecube, Wii, and PS2 ports too but they have shit controls, worse graphics, worse AI, handicapped level design, and low framerates.

[Anonymous No.10611187]

>>10610134
>yes you can
then good luck and have fun killing those dead hammerites
or finishing a bunch of missions where it's clearly stated that you can't kill anyone REGARDLESS OF THE DIFFICULTY LEVEL
what a dumb nigger
I could assume that you didn't play the game, but you probably did and you're just too stupid to even think about the garbage you spewing
>and explicitly combat is fucking harder than stealth
It's just not, stealth is just a one big waste of time as far as MGS goes when you can just gundown most of the guys with superior arsenal.
It's also funny how in this supposed stealth game you get to shoot your bosses with fucking bazookas instead of sneaking past them, even as an optional way.
>many stealth games are based around avoiding vision cones
Yes, by using your fucking ears, a disguise or high tech gadgets, not gawking at the UI radar like a braindead retard all the time.
>i know you're full of shit for stating this
You're literally forced to fight with a bunch of mega mechs and destroy them with a rocket launcher
LMAO

also no surprise that the consolebaby retard is a reddit spacing nigger

[Anonymous No.10611374]

>>10610393
The gunplay was deliberately made to be awkward to disincentivize combat and make fighting more than one person difficult. Just look how easy they made the shooting in future games and how it started becoming more and more of an action game.

[Anonymous No.10611385]

>>10611117
The light meter is more advanced than Thief's, so it doesn't make much sense to call it a "shittier" thief. If anything, Splinter Cell is on the same level as it in its mechanics. Level design may be better in Thief though.

[Anonymous No.10611485]

>>10610245
>>10610206
>>10610203
blacklist is shit, and has 1 and a half good

also you would think metal gear fags would have better things to do, like playing their mostly alive franchise, than seething about not beign a stealth game.

[Anonymous No.10611501]

>>10611485
good levels opps

[Anonymous No.10611504]

>>10611125
>The PC versions if the first three games are mostly identical but tend to have graphical effects that don't work correctly on modern GPU's without workarounds or other fuckery
That's a PT problem. SC1 and CT offer no tech problems usually.

[Anonymous No.10611505]

>>10608262
>MGS out of nowhere
fuck off

[Anonymous No.10611801]

>>10608380
if only Chaos Theory didn't have to work around xbox memory limitations. the levels would be even better.

>>10609583
>deus ex stealth mechanics
>like thief
thief's stealth is functional and satisfying.

[Anonymous No.10611805]

>>10611385
the sound mechanics in CT were pretty cool too

[Anonymous No.10611861]

>>10611385
The light meter is not that much more advanced in Splinter Cell but what I meant was Thief's diversity for approaching a given section of a level was it's core appeal; whereas, Splinter Cell, by comparison, would be Thief if you had little to no ability for platforming, no rope arrows, and no moss arrows, but instead have the ability to quickly and quietly kill lone enemies from a distance. That leaves you with sitting in a dark corner along a patrol path shooting lights and snatching people in crowded areas and popping heads of single enemies (that you don't need to interrogate) which for an entire game gets monotonous. The guard AI isn't advanced enough to mix things up like it can in other games like MGS so you don't have emergent problem-solving to counteract the basic level design. All these problems are compounded further in the non-CT entries; they are either more barebones in design (pre-CT games) or shift more toward action and modern Ubislop pitfalls (post-CT games).

[Anonymous No.10612120]

>>10608232
Not after MGS V.

[Anonymous No.10612139]

>>10612120
you're too overpowered in MGS V, in relation to the enemies, not to mention how hard it is to die.

[Anonymous No.10612143]

>>10612139
>selects easy mode
>complains about it being easy

[Anonymous No.10612171]

>>10612143
>easy mode
there's no easy mode in the game other than the chicken hat

I've played the game in a variety of ways, disabled all helps, reflex, hud, I've done the missions in forced subsistence mode, etc. The mechanics are good but it's too easy even if you mod it with Infinite Heaven, and in no way does it make past stealth titles obsolete.

[Anonymous No.10612186]

>>10612171
yeah, sure, buddy

[Anonymous No.10612191]

I only really tried the first one, and it was basically another quicksave simulator that you had so many of on PC around that time.

Played CT just briefly but it was just full of cramped hallways in the first level, so I stopped playing.

[Anonymous No.10612514]

>>10612120
>Not after this really shitty stealth game that isn't as good at stealth as Splinter Cell 1

What did he meme by this?

[Anonymous No.10612535]

>>10611861
You get more options for exploration in Splinter Cell so you're over-simplification falls entirely flat. Can you rappel down the sides of buildings in Thief? No. Can you hang from ledges in Thief? No. Can you climb onto pipes in Thief? No. Can you climb over fences in Thief? No. Can you flatten yourself to fit through crawl spaces in Thief? No. Can you kick off of walls to reach normally out-of-reach ledges in Thief? No.

Can you lock pick in Thief? Yes, although Splinter Cell does it better. Can you kill enemies in Thief? Yes, although it's more satisfying on Splinter Cell. Can you "interact" with the NPC's in the game? Sort of, but Splinter Cell allows you much better options, such as interrogating them and forcing them to use retinal scanners where-as in Thief you're just lifting keys off people. Can you interact with the environment in Thief? Sort of, you can douse torches. Meanwhile in Splinter Cell you can destroy lights, destroy cameras, and destroy windows and interact with cloth physics dangling around the environment.

Sounds to me like Thief is the shittier Splinter Cell.

[Anonymous No.10612541]

>>10611861
You get more options for exploration in Splinter Cell so you're over-simplification falls entirely flat. Can you rappel down the sides of buildings in Thief? No. Can you hang from ledges in Thief? No. Can you climb onto pipes in Thief? No. Can you climb over fences in Thief? No. Can you flatten yourself to fit through crawl spaces in Thief? No. Can you kick off of walls to reach normally out-of-reach ledges in Thief? No.

Can you lock pick in Thief? Yes, although Splinter Cell does it better. Can you kill enemies in Thief? Yes, although it's more satisfying on Splinter Cell. Can you "interact" with the NPC's in the game? Sort of, but Splinter Cell allows you much better options, such as interrogating them and forcing them to use retinal scanners where-as in Thief you're just lifting keys off people. Can you interact with the environment in Thief? Sort of, you can douse torches. Meanwhile in Splinter Cell you can destroy lights, destroy cameras, and destroy windows and interact with cloth physics dangling around the environment.

Sounds to me like Thief is the shittier Splinter Cell.

>The guard AI isn't advanced enough to mix things up like it can in other games like MGS
Aaaand you've lost me. MGS's guard AI is liquid dog shit and Splinter Cell's runs laps around it. Literally who the fuck are you trying to convince and what the fuck are you talking about you god damn braindead retard? Like, I'm not even mad, just stunned at your incompetence.

[Anonymous No.10612546]

>>10612191
>quicksave simulator

Console-kiddies getting uppity again. I thought we laughed you out of the Tomb Raider threads for your laughably stupid takes on the quicksave function?

[Anonymous No.10612550]

>>10612546
>>Console-kiddies getting uppity again
funny thing is that the "quicksave simulator" thing doesn't apply on the console versions lol it's a PC shitter

[Anonymous No.10612556]

>>10612550
Retro consoles didn't have "Save anywhere" for most of their games because their hardware was so dog-turd shitty that it couldn't handle it. You had to buy separate memory cards just to save your progress when your game allowed it, because if you saved too much or in too many slots, it would take up space, lmao, imagine that, being so shitty and pathetic you have to have the game to tell you which slots and when you can save it, holy shit, I'd kill myself.

[Anonymous No.10612571]

>>10612556
The point is that, if consoletards could beat these games without quicksaving, then they're not quicksave simulators. Git gud fag.

[Anonymous No.10612580]

>>10612571
Why would I gimp myself with shitty console gimmicks, making my game inferior?

[Anonymous No.10612587]

>>10612580
Why should I entertain your goalpost moving?

[Anonymous No.10612593]

>>10612191
>Splinter Cell 1
>quicksave simulator

Bruh, how fucking bad are you

[Anonymous No.10612597]

>>10612587
Sorry, I guess I just don't understand your retard-tier assumptions. I'm not a piss-drinking dumbfuck, so explain it better to someone who isn't a console peasant.

[Anonymous No.10612608]

>>10608232
Yes. Debatably the only good modern stealth franchise.

Hitman is fun, but the AI feels like I'm playing a game where every person is an autist.

MGS is fun, but it feels like an action game.

Thief is fun, but it feels antiquated and kinda boring.

[Anonymous No.10612615]

>>10612608

[Anonymous No.10612619]

>>10612608
>Thief is fun, but it feels antiquated and kinda boring.
The problem with Thief is that the stealth in them feels like a background mechanic. I consider naming them as "stealth" game a kind of a misnomer. The main onus is in navigation and looting, and sneaking comes in a distant third place. Which is not bad per se, but if I feel like in need of having THE stealth gaming experience, I don't think about Thief at all.

[Anonymous No.10612629]

>>10611187
>then good luck and have fun killing those dead hammerites
oh. you mean that triggers as a mandatory objective in Return to the Cathedral? WHERE KILLING THE HAMMERHAUNTS IS FUCKING MANDATORY ON EXPERT TO ASSIST THAT FUCKING GHOST ALONG WITH LAUNDRY LIST OF OTHER FUCKING SCAVENGER HUNTS?

THE GAME, WHERE YOU CAN KILL HALF THE ENEMIES (IE EVERYTHING SUPER NATURAL OR MECHANICAL) WITH NO SIGNIFICANT PENALTY OR ESCALATION WHATSOEVER FOR DOING SO AND ITS THE EASIEST WAY TO DEAL WITH THEM ON EXPERT?

but i guess me using holy water to explode zombies, shooting water arrows to fire elementals, dropping explosive mines to kill numerous monkey dudes, and gutting numerous amounts of enemies in Escape!, Strange Bedfellows, Into the Maw of Chaos, etc all on expert didnt happen.

its like this Thief: Gold is almost poorly designed at times despite its stealth mechanics, where participating in direct combat or indirectly backstabbing is easier than sneaking by your opponents.

but you're correct (partially) on not being able to kill human enemies primarily on expert. but it goes back to your arbitrary selection of difficulty.

MGS has explicit difficulty modes that shut off radar and alerts causing game overs (no you cant select those, even though the game has been explicitly designed for it). ENCOURAGING STEALTH PLAY EVIDENTLY, but you're against selecting them. explain your position without sounding like a retard.

>You're literally forced to fight with a bunch of mega mechs and destroy them with a rocket launcher
and? you have direct combat segments in fucking Hitman and SC too. you can participate in direct combat in Thief. does that mean it extrapolates to the whole game?

but another point i like to bring up about MGS, it explicitly has the most creative and fun bossfights in stealth action games. which other franchises would never have the audacity or the imagination to pull off.

most of your post isnt worth addressing and i dont expect a good response anyways.

[Anonymous No.10612654]

>>10611861
>The guard AI isn't advanced enough to mix things up like it can in other games like MGS so you don't have emergent problem-solving to counteract the basic level design.

Aside from the fact that it does, at what point, ever, in any classical MGS game, does the game offer "emergent problem-solving" from the AI? Literally the most impressive thing the AI in MGS was when they followed your footprints which blew the minds of 8 year olds everywhere. Other than that they patrol around fixed loops in the environment endlessly and are capable of walking, running, and shooting. Where are you getting this "advanced emergent AI" in MGS from? And this is coming from someone who actually LIKES MGS1 and 3.

[Anonymous No.10612683]

>>10612654
its definitely not 'emergent problem solving' (does any fucking game have this?). but MGS has the most interesting enemy design in all of stealth games barring Thief.

[Anonymous No.10612818]

>>10612546
>why yes were casual! you're too hardcore HAHAHA!

[Anonymous No.10612834]

>>10608232
Yeah, I actually enjoyed all of them except for DA, but that was the next gen one and not the original Xbox version. The first two are definitely a little stiff but you'll get used to them once it clicks. The most fun I had with these games was imposing a no kill challenge and being 100% undetected with the exception of the occasional scripted event.

[Anonymous No.10612838]

>>10612587
some people just like being bad at video games.

[Anonymous No.10612848]

>>10610363
Are you using a texture mod? That looks really nice.

[Anonymous No.10613158]

Anyone try to play this shit on their Steam Deck?

[Anonymous No.10613212]

>>10608232
first one is rough, 2 is meh, 3 is best, 4 has two version, both fun.

[Anonymous No.10613215]

>>10608458
all mgs games are highly replayable with lots of possibilities to experiment, only SCCT has replayability/experimentation

[Anonymous No.10613223]

>>10613158
CT on 'eck is great. just get the widescreen patch.

[Chud Anon No.10613229]

Why is this game series giving favela dwellers such a meltdown lamo?

[Anonymous No.10613250]

>>10612683
>but MGS has the most interesting enemy design in all of stealth games barring Thief.

No it doesn't.

[Anonymous No.10613265]

>>10613250
Counterpoint: it does.

[Anonymous No.10613273]

>>10612683
>>10613215
Where do these cumjima retards come from? Literally what the fuck are you talking about you schizo fanboy retards? What experimentation? How is it the "most interesting enemy design"? You nigger faggots literally just dive into threads, plant your shit-smeared IQ takes with zero backing for them, and then just leave and never give an answer. Every fucking time. Do you cunts have a single example of AI doing anything even remotely as intelligent as anon posted here?

>>10609572
Because if not, fuck off and quit shit-posting. Seriously.

[Anonymous No.10613281]

>>10613265
Crazy Taxi has the most interesting game design in the history of video gaming.

[Anonymous No.10613349]

>>10613273
>Do you cunts have a single example of AI doing anything even remotely as intelligent as anon posted here?
why would you expect anything 'intelligent' in the stealth action subgenre when most enemy designs are meant to be dumb and exploitable, by fucking design?

when in hitman, MGS, thief, and SC you can throw objects, past an enemy's FOV, and rather than investigating the source of where it was thrown, they investigate where it landed? without a concern in the world that somebody is throwing shit around in a compound they are supposed to make sure is secure and protected?

i think the dumbest fucking thing is to expect reelistic smartie boi AI when most designers make them fucking dense on purpose.

[Anonymous No.10613360]

>>10613349
i wish stealtg games actually did do that. if they see the object being thrown, they SHOULD be suspicious.

[Anonymous No.10613396]

pandora tomorrow's lax is one of my favorite splinter cell missions.

[Anonymous No.10613409]

>>10613349
>>10613360
Not retro, but the new Hitman trilogy has NPCs 'react' differently to thrown objects if they see you throw them. Mostly just calling you an idiot for not using a trash can, then going back to their normal routine. I can't recall if this was the case in the earlier games, but I'm leaning towards no.

[Anonymous No.10613418]

>>10613349
>when in hitman, MGS, thief, and SC you can throw objects, past an enemy's FOV, and rather than investigating the source of where it was thrown, they investigate where it landed?

Uhhh, anon....Enemies in Splinter Cell will actually investigate where the object was thrown from if your throw-arc passes through their cone of vision, FYI...

[Anonymous No.10613426]

>>10613418
>expecting a kojimaturd to know this

[Anonymous No.10613437]

>>10613349
Chaos Theory has some of the best stealth AI in gaming. Not only will they investigate sounds, but they grow increasingly concerned the more sounds they hear, eventually firing into the darkness at whatever was making the sound. They will also use cover to their advantage, create cover, and will immediately become hostile if they specifically hear gunfire, and fire in the direction they heard the gunfire come from.

Their cone of vision is also based on the orientation of their eyes, so if they turn their heads, their cone of vision could spot you.

They aren't "omnipotent" either in how they detect you, they genuinely respond to sounds naturally without "aimbotting" you, instead firing in your general direction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6J3KxB8jSU

[Anonymous No.10613447]

>>10613437
the only thing ill admit. i never played CT past the first level despite clearing SC1, PT, DA (360), and Conviction. but i guess ill clear it and properly evaluate the game's quality (and AI) at some point.

[Anonymous No.10614117]

MGS 2 has a few interesting AI quirks but it's all so underutilized you can go an entire playthrough without seeing enemies interacting in interesting ways. That's basically a main problem with every MGS until V, just too little gameplay.

[Anonymous No.10614243]

this feels like a /v/ thread, imagine mindlessly shitting on MGS

[Anonymous No.10614252]

>>10614117
that is absolutely not a problem in mgs3.

[Anonymous No.10614367]

>>10614243
/v/ loves MGS, what are you talking about?

[Anonymous No.10614378]

>>10614243
No one started shitting on MGS until the MGS-fags came into the thread and literally, without exaggeration, started proclaiming it had the most intelligent AI, the best enemy design, and was the best stealth game.

[Anonymous No.10614379]

>>10614378
literally the first post in the thread

[Anonymous No.10614382]

>>10614379
That post wasn't shitting on MGS, it was just stating it wasn't a very good stealth game. Even says on the box that it's "Tactical Espionage Action".

[Anonymous No.10614445]

>>10608232
Pandora Tomorrow is always looked at as the black sheep of the original series, but honestly I'm not sure why. It plays just like Splinter Cell 1.

[Anonymous No.10614458]

>>10614445
To me, the entire game feels like a blur, there's a lack of memorable levels and designs, it just felt like a placeholder title between SC1 and CT (which it was, since it was developed by Ubisoft Shanghai instead of Ubi Montreal). The train level is perhaps the most memorable moment in the entire game and even then it was a gimmick mini-stage.

[Anonymous No.10614628]

>>10608232
First couple yes.
Before the game mechanics surrendered to CoD and Gears of War.

[Anonymous No.10614657]

>>10614458
The intro is memorable at least, being that it takes place in a cozy tropical environment, compared to the previous game which was all urban and industrial environments.

[Anonymous No.10614776]

>>10612654
>Aside from the fact that it does, at what point, ever, in any classical MGS game, does the game offer "emergent problem-solving" from the AI?
The alarm system in MGS is much more fleshed out than in Splinter Cell, even MGS1. Guards sweep areas on Alert, check hiding spots they wouldn't normally check on caution, do bang and clears in rooms Snake is in on alert, lob grenades in vents and under shelves, do formations when assault teams arrive, and break your cardboard box. The alert system is fleshed out to the point where climbing the tower to fight the HIND-D and then descending it play completely differently solely due to the alert phase. This gets even more dense in MGSV. The most impressive thing the AI will do in Splinter Cell is hide from the player which is the opposite feeling you want to give in a stealth game. And this is coming from someone that actually likes Chaos Theory and owns multiple copies of it.
>>10612541
>Can you rappel down the sides of buildings in Thief? No.
Used only in pre-scripted locations a handful of times. Rope arrow is rappeling without the artificial limitation on utility.
>Can you hang from ledges in Thief? No.
This isn't exploration related. This is just alternate animation for hiding.
>Can you climb onto pipes in Thief? No.
Glorified uncharted free climbing mechanic, half of the time comes with exposition dump from Lambert during it.
>Can you climb over fences in Thief? No.
Stop the press. Fisher can conquer chest-high walls. How will Looking Glass recover.
>Can you flatten yourself to fit through crawl spaces in Thief? No.
Bro, it's literally animation. It is functionally no different than walking forward. You gonna tell me the parkour system from Asscreed is some innovation in environmental navigation gameplay?
>Can you kick off of walls to reach normally out-of-reach ledges in Thief? No.
You don't have to because you don't have prescripted rappel locations. You fire a rope arrow closer.

[Anonymous No.10614807]

>>10614776
>Used only in pre-scripted locations a handful of times. Rope arrow is rappeling without the artificial limitation on utility.
Cope. Rope arrow is limited to pre-ordained structures, and you cannot use it to rappel, only climb.

>This isn't exploration related. This is just alternate animation for hiding.
Yes, it is exploration related, since you can only get to certain areas by shimmying on ledges. Cope.

>Glorified uncharted free climbing mechanic, half of the time comes with exposition dump from Lambert during it.
More cope.

>Stop the press. Fisher can conquer chest-high walls. How will Looking Glass recover.
Oh, look at the time, it's half-past COPE.

>Bro, it's literally animation. It is functionally no different than walking forward. You gonna tell me the parkour system from Asscreed is some innovation in environmental navigation gameplay?
>B-B-BRO, I-I-ITS LITERALLY ANIMATION
Cope.

>You don't have to because you don't have prescripted rappel locations. You fire a rope arrow closer.
That has nothing to do with rappelling you absolute retard. You've never even played the game based on the fact that you think it has anything to do with rappelling. Kek, coping, and a self-own all in one. Quite the feat.

>The alarm system in MGS is much more fleshed out than in Splinter Cell,
No, it isn't.

>Guards sweep areas on Alert,
They do that in SC.

>check hiding spots they wouldn't normally check on caution,
They do that in SC.

>do bang and clears in rooms Snake is in on alert,
They throw grenades in SC as well.

>lob grenades in vents and under shelves,
Never seen them do that but I'll take your word for it.

>do formations when assault teams arrive,
The always arrive using pre-programmed formations. None of it is organic, so it's hardly "AI". It's like saying that the AI picks out its own weaponry.

>and break your cardboard box.
OH MY, YOUR CARDBOARD BOX YOU SAY?

PART 1

[Anonymous No.10614849]

>>10614807
>cope
>cope
>cope
>cope

[Anonymous No.10614874]

>>10614776
>>10614807
PART 2

Now, let's get ready to see what Splinter Cell AI can do *cracks fingers*
>Blind-fires in areas where they think Sam is hiding
>Will arm up with heavier weaponry and armor if a high enough alert stage is reached
>Can detect where you are if you throw something and its throw-arc passes by their field of view
>Can detect if a light has been shot out or turned off
>Can remember if a door was left open or not
>Will move furniture and change the environment to form defensive cover and even block certain entries
>Will use the environment to dynamically run for cover when alerted, instead of just standing out in the open
>Will provide covering fire and try to actively flank Sam
>Can detect if materials have been cut open
>You can determine the stress level of the AI based on their specific voice lines
>Can crouch and will try to sneak up on Sam or go under crouchable terrain
>Can differentiate between hearing footsteps, gunfire, and just random sounds
>Will wait in ambush for Sam in bottle necks and in foliage
>Will gradually react differently the more unusual sounds they hear, eventually raising to the height of shooting at noises they hear in the darkness
>Cone of vision is based on the orientation of their head, not the direction of their body
>Will light flares in dark areas where they cannot see
>Will throw said flares into spots they believe Sam might be hiding
>Have a preference for sticking together and will follow one another when alerted, and if alone when alerted, may attempt to go and find another NPC to group up with
>Can tell if a scanner has been hacked or not
>If the AI accidentally knocks out its own team mates by jumping down a ladder, they will wake them back up

[Anonymous No.10614881]

>>10614849
Not my fault you have a lack of arguments and invent coping strawmen to distract from the fact.

[Anonymous No.10614901]

If you want emergent AI play FEAR. Otherwise the splinter cell games are fun but really shine in Multiplayer.

[Anonymous No.10614929]

>>10614776
>The most impressive thing the AI will do in Splinter Cell is hide from the player

Try actually playing the game instead of lying on a Mongolian basket weaving forum. You may find out you actually like it.

[Anonymous No.10614960]

>>10614874
You forgot enemies can also spot your reflection on a mirror. This feature was hailed as revolutionary when Nu-Hitman 2 added it.

[Anonymous No.10615219]

>>10610014
You realize you instantly game over if you get spotted in MGS if you're not playing babby faggot difficulty?

[Anonymous No.10615230]

>>10612546
Lmao are you retarded, quicksaves are only in the PC version of SC1 you braindead cock mongrel

[Anonymous No.10615238]

>>10614929
3 posts above your reply literally describes the AI behaviors.
>and if alone when alerted, may attempt to go and find another NPC to group up with
>Will use the environment to dynamically run for cover when alerted, instead of just standing out in the open
>Will move furniture and change the environment to form defensive cover and even block certain entries
Sounds like hiding to me. I wasn't even saying it as a negative. It was innovative for the time. You were just frothing at the mouth to get off your 4chan madlib smug response that you took it in bad faith. And yes, enemies running from the player to barricade themselves, find cover, or backup is neat but potentially antithetical to the stealth genre. When they leave they are giving you more space and the opportunity to escape, hide, and reset the scenario. This shit happens all the time during alerts in CT. You open a door to a room or turn the corner of a hallway and the guard sees you. He runs FURTHER away (sometimes to a blindspot) which then allows you to turn around and hide at an ambush location. Depending how far you backtracked, they may not even sweep that far. With MGS or Thief, they are in your goddamn face bodyblocking your escape while stunlocking you with attacks.

[Anonymous No.10615371]

>>10613437
I was blown away when I tried doing the whistle against a pair of guards in NK and they had a line about how it was a trick and they wouldn't follow.

[Anonymous No.10615383]

>>1061477
pretty much every area in Ct will have a hidden environmental kill possible, sometimes several. They also all have a route to secretly evade the guards so you can complete the game without having to do a nonrequired kill. For example the first laser grid upstairs in the bank allows you to trail the guard, or kill him and take his body, or wall hang on a railing, or mantle over a desk, and the corridor after that allows you to do the wall jump. You can even skip the whole thing by climbing through a ventshaft accessible outside. The game has brilliant encounters because it treats each scenario as very unique

[Anonymous No.10615392]

last interesting thing, I triggered a shootout with a guard in CT on extreme the other day and once he decided to hide behind cover at a wall position he refused to come out or drop the alert. It is a really sophisticated system once you graduate beyond the easymodo difficulty where you can do almost anything

[Anonymous No.10615456]

>>10615238
>Sounds like hiding to me
Flanking isn't "hiding" retard, neither is using cover. Hiding is trying to deliberately lose the player.

>Sounds like hiding to me. I wasn't even saying it as a negative. It was innovative for the time. You were just frothing at the mouth to get off your 4chan madlib smug response that you took it in bad faith.
Because it was posted in bad faith by someone who's never played the games. A normal person wouldn't simplify and trivialize 3 distinct behaviors unless they had an agenda, IE, minimalizing the scope of the AI.

>And yes, enemies running from the player to barricade themselves, find cover, or backup is neat but potentially antithetical to the stealth genre.
No, it isn't, that's a red herring argument.

> This shit happens all the time during alerts in CT. You open a door to a room or turn the corner of a hallway and the guard sees you. He runs FURTHER away (sometimes to a blindspot) which then allows you to turn around and hide at an ambush location.
No, he doesn't, he fires at you almost immediately, and if he loses you, THEN does those other things. AGAIN, try playing the game.

>Depending how far you backtracked, they may not even sweep that far. With MGS or Thief, they are in your goddamn face bodyblocking your escape while stunlocking you with attacks.
With MGS you have the AI stupidly plant themselves firmly wherever they are and unload entire magazines onto you. Then if you flee, they automatically trace you back to whatever small closet with limited options you have, try to flush you out for a 30 seconds, then go back to pretending you never existed.

[Anonymous No.10615462]

>>10614960
Enemies can see your reflection in MGS2. Also, enemies can see your shadow in MGS2, which they cannot do in CT.

[Anonymous No.10615474]

>>10615462
shame it's barely used. the Tank level had a lot of cool stuff (they toyed also with light mechanics in one corridor) that they just dropped altogether for Plant.

[Anonymous No.10615480]

>>10615474
There are 'shadow spots' in nearly every room of the plant but, yeah, it's not too often the player gets spotted that way. It bugs me that the enemies in Chaos Theory can't spot you via shadow considering how often you sneak up behind guys with a huge spotlight casting a shadow over them.

[Anonymous No.10615483]

>>10615238
>Sounds like hiding to me.

It isn't, because if you wound an enemy, there's a chance they may actually run away and try to actually hide from you.

[Anonymous No.10615538]

>>10615462
Weird thing about the mirrors though, if you try and break them, they still show your reflection.