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/vr/ - Retro Games

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10606736 No.10606736 [Reply] [Original]

PALfags of /vr/: can you go back to 50hz and slower framerates after trying NTSC games?

>> No.10606790

No, which is why I refuse to collect PAL games that don't have 60Hz modes.

>> No.10606836

never. my entire childhood was lie. you don't know what it's like.

>> No.10606840

>>10606736
When you play a pal game again it genuinely feels like the game engine is struggling or there's some bug in the code. You can even see the animations glitching in real time and the jank.

>> No.10606851

No. I immediately bought NTSC versions of consoles when I found out. My PAL consoles gather dust. Their controllers live on in the NTSC machines though.

>> No.10606861

>>10606736
Us PAL fags have higher resolutions, NTSC fags run at 480P while we run at 560P.

>> No.10606867

>>10606861
Not really worth it when the rest of the game is borderline broken.

>> No.10606870

if it runs slower or have extra borders or it's 25fps instead of 30fps then no
if it's 50fps instead of 60fps with game speed remaining same and it's using all 576 lines I'm fine with it
5th gen and everything before PAL is garbage, 7th gen and beyond PAL is irrelevant with HDMI
6th gen PAL is mostly fine except for jap developed PS2 games

>> No.10606873

Gotta say though, PAL crts are superior. NTSC, PAL, SECAM and PAL 60. Often native rgb. Burger tv's just can compete.

>> No.10606878

>>10606861
Also the frame rate isn’t even that bad, PAL runs at 24fps and NTSC runs at 29fps, therefore PAL is better. I’d take the 20% higher resolution over 5 frames.

>> No.10606890

Pal 60 is really the killer app for Euro/Oceania. That is how we can run many PAL consoles with ntsc games in color.

>> No.10606898

>>10606861
The higher resolution is usually made up of black bars or a messed up aspect ratio. Games end up looking worse either way.

>> No.10606905

>>10606867
>>10606898
That’s the developers fault for not porting it properly.

>> No.10606907

>>10606736
Some games that were made to run on PAL 50hz run like shit on NTSC and the only way to play them properly is the PAL version. Two examples that come to mind is Destruction Derby 2, made by a British dev team and meant to run at 50hz, the NTSC version plays like shit and the car handling is all wrong at 60hz causing the cars to feel like they're on ice.

2nd example is Battletoads for NES, again made by a British dev team (Rare) and meant to be played at 50hz. The NTSC version is bugged due to the 60hz making the turbo tunnel level nearly impossible.

>> No.10606910

>>10606907
>Some games that were made to run on PAL 50hz run like shit on NTSC and the only way to play them properly is the PAL version. Two examples that come to mind is Destruction Derby 2, made by a British dev team and meant to run at 50hz, the NTSC version plays like shit and the car handling is all wrong at 60hz causing the cars to feel like they're on ice.
Wipeout 3 Special Edition too

>> No.10606915

>>10606910
Yup and now that I think of it the original Rayman too, the movement is far too twitchy on the NTSC versions. Good rule of thumb to use is that if the game was made by a European dev team then the PAL version is probably the superior way to play it.

>> No.10606930

>>10606910
There's no NTSC version for WE3SE
>>10606905
Most PAL ports were handled that way. PAL fucking sucks
>>10606878
Cope
>>10606861
So dumb. It's not like the base graphics have an higher resolution

I from europe and pal apologists are the fucking worse thing on /vr/

>> No.10606949
File: 592 KB, 1461x1485, SCES-00311-F-P-2506926916.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10606949

>>10606736
No.
>>10606836
People don't realize how much it hurts. I had love hate relationship with nearly all the games. Turns out it's just bad porting. Try playing Super Mario 1 or Megaman on PAL and NTSC. I died many times because I felt physics in Mario wasn't good enough. I never have that issue on NTSC Mario.
>>10606861
Nearly none of the games took advantage of it. In fact it generally caused some more issue. Games generally have stupid black borders because of it.
>>10606915
>Good rule of thumb to use is that if the game was made by a European dev team then the PAL version is probably the superior way to play it.
No there are many games made by European devs that has correct speed on NTSC, and once again PAL version is actually slower. American market is bigger.
They used PAL speed for Medievil remake.

>> No.10606960

Some shmups are better slowed down. Shmups are too stupid hard sometimes, they actually become playable at 50hz assuming it was a lousy port
That's about the only case I can think of.

>> No.10607083

>>10606930
>I from europe and pal apologists are the fucking worse thing on /vr/

lol, lmao even. As if this was even a common thing. Console wars posters and the abundance of Zelda a diablo posting are far worse, this is one of the few times I've seen people defending PAL. Plus it is just basic fact that there are PAL games that were programmed to run on PAL systems that play better at 50hz because of that.

>> No.10607091

>>10606949
>No there are many games made by European devs that has correct speed on NTSC, and once again PAL version is actually slower. American market is bigger.
>They used PAL speed for Medievil remake.


It's just basic fact and logic that when the devs where developing the game on PAL dev systems and playtesting them on PAL televisions during development that the PAL versions of those European developed games are going to run perfectly on PAL and sometimes will run worse on NTSC as the devs didn't adjust timings correctly for the NTSC release. Also the idea that things were developed for the US market all the time as it was bigger is not always true. For example look at a game like Colin McCrae Rally 1 + 2 on PS1, it was developed for the European market as burgers don't watch WRC and wouldn't have any clue who Colin McCrae was. Codemasters wouldn't have expected the game to sell much if at all in USA. Codemasters didn't even make and NTSC port for Colin McCrae 1 until nearly a full year after the PAL release and only done so because it sold so well in Europe it was now worth taking the chance. You burgers are insufferable in your arrogance and american centeredness at times.

>> No.10607096

>>10607091
>You burgers
I wish.
Btw I'm not from Europe. Other countries used PAL as well.

>> No.10607230

>>10606736
No. Literally the only reason I'll play PAL now is in rare cases where it's the better game like Wipeout 3 SE or has more soulful voice acting like Ape Escape, no point subjecting myself to extra jank.

>> No.10607238

Were pal games easier

>> No.10607343

>>10607230
Gex 2 has sovlful voice acting on PAL.
Gex 3 has better voice acting on NTSC.
>>10607238
Sometimes, yes. Other times they increased the game speed like 1.1 which made them much worse. You can't progress in Ducktales like 10 minutes in to the game because jumping mechanic is tied to gamespeed. Mario feels a lot worse.

>> No.10607469

>>10606736
The human brain is not a precision timing instrument. Without side by side comparison, 50hz is fine.

>> No.10607472

>>10606905
Its only possible to correct the aspect in 3d games, and many do. For 2d games, its pretty much impossible.

>> No.10607476

>>10606949
> bad porting
Any attempt at porting a game will always be bad. Its basically impossible to speed scale mostly integer math, like how do you add 1.2 to a integer counter for example?

The only correct solution, is to just let the game run slow, because at least that way all the logic works correctly.

>> No.10607540

>>10607469
Pure cope. Simple as

>> No.10607572
File: 416 KB, 640x898, 22053_front.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10607572

>>10607476
Yeah unless 3D I don't think it was possible to do a good job on most cases.
Mario Bros had an amazing PAL port released in 1993. Which had apparently correct speed, funnily enough was one of my favorite NES games. Most likely because of correct speed it. They probably built it from scratch.
Entire release is very weird though. Why did they release something like that in 1993?
It might be the same game as Kaettekita Mario Bros. Updated version of Mario Bros.

>> No.10607579

>>10606836
LOL, I'm a euro but I just played pirated NTSC releases on a modchipped PS2 back when I was a child.

>> No.10607639

>>10606736
Yes.

>> No.10607991

pal emulates smoother, so yes

>> No.10607995

>>10607579
>ps2
>child
you must be 18 to use this site

>> No.10608004

>>10606736
The internet/youtube conditioned me to dislike PAL with a passion, that it's an unplayable mess.
So for the longest time I only foccused on NTSC releases.
However I recently started playing some PAL stuff on the Mega Drive and I honestly don't mind it all that much, music is usually in the correct speed and the squished image can be streched by any TV to make it "fullscreen" again.
Just leaved the 16% slower gameplay which I somehow easy got used to and don't even notice it as a hindrance.

3D games are less favourable in PAL due to the framerate issues, especially for 5th gen.

>> No.10608007

>>10607995
PS2 is 23 years old

>> No.10608183

>>10607991
>pal emulates smoother
only if you run it on a fucking toaster that has trouble with running the game at 60 FPS but can handle 50 FPS.
this mostly matters for devices like ARM-based handhelds, for most PC owners with hardware from the last decade there is no difference.

>> No.10608231

>>10607343
>You can't progress in Ducktales like 10 minutes in to the game because jumping mechanic is tied to gamespeed
this is bullshit

>> No.10608238

>>10607238
Yes and no. Slower for some action based games though for most it was just unnecessary jank and a squashed resolution.

>> No.10608420

>>10606736
No, that's why I just import the few games I like from japan. Most developers were too lazy to take the effort to adapt the games for 50hz so either the music and physics were slow or developers would do the bare minimum and speed the music up. The only exception to this is if the developers were from Europe themselves so the games are actually optimised for the region.

>> No.10608512

>>10608231
https://tcrf.net/DuckTales_(NES)#Gameplay

>> No.10608570

>>10607091
And it's basic facts and logic devs knew about the US and what NTSC was and would more often adjust for it than not you insufferably arrogant contrarian.

>> No.10608585

I live in palzone and never had any trouble with the whole 50hz = slower meme.
Weren't Nintendo games sped up to match the other regions or something?

>> No.10608685

>>10608512
Did you even bother to read?
>The European version increases Scrooge's movement speed in an attempt to compensate for the lower framerate of 50 Hz televisions. As a side effect of this change, Scrooge can just barely jump over the large gap in the second part of the Amazon without assistance from Launchpad.
So they made Scrooge little faster, the game is still beatable unlike what >>10607343 said.

>> No.10608691

>>10606736
Honestly, I never knew there was a speed difference and after a day or two I'll get used to it again. What I definitely can't go back to is to games being squished instead of taking the entire screen, though, so no thanks.

>> No.10608710

>>10608585
Yes, if you played legal copies of games for NES or SNES then those probably had gameplay and music adjusted for PAL territories. Then again, many people in eastern Europe played chink bazaar carts on famiclones, those were usually based on NTSC-J releases, with both music and gameplay slowed down when displayed on PAL TVs. What's more, Sega was quite terrible when it came to supporting PAL even when it came to their first party releases. Sonic the Hedgehog 2 was the first Sonic game to get adjusted to PAL, but the gameplay was still somewhat slowed down because Sega was afraid that people who've played the broken slowed down version of the first game would not take kindly to the speed change. Well, at least the music played at full speed. Broken PAL versions of games became less common in 5th gen, but there were still some on Playstation 1, which is a not-so-well-known fact. Games like Rayman 1 on PS1 are among that group, which is really ironic when you consider that it was developed in France by a French studio... yeah I know France used SECAM and not PAL at the time, but SECAM runs at 50Hz as well. I can't think of a 6th Gen game with a broken PAL version. They are still inferior to NTSC releases most of the time due to not supporting 60Hz or progressive display modes, but they still maintain correct music and gameplay speeds at 50Hz.

>> No.10608756

>>10606736
I can but usually I'll just choose US or JP version unless there's something special about it like the music in Saturn Shinobi

>> No.10608770

>>10606736
The fact we got cucked versions of games was a massive betrayal when I found out (as a teen)

>> No.10608785

>>10606736
Yeah. My physical collection is mostly PAL versions because those are what hold nostalgia for me. I don't even notice when I'm playing. There are also mods for just about every console out there to have PAL games to run at 60Hz, and many emulators can do it too.

>> No.10608791

>>10608691
The first time I played Starwing at 60fps I got obliterated. I was VERY used to 50htz

>> No.10608827

I can depending on the game but ultimately go for NTSC when there's no downside (censor, little changes here and there, I have to play in my native language with my gf)

>> No.10608896

I literally couldn't care less, i barely notice it, only the shitty letterbox annoys me

>> No.10608963

I suppose it would depend on what kind of game it is.

>> No.10608967

>>10606861
holy cope

>> No.10608978

>>10606736
The framerate itself doesn't bother me at all and I can even live with letterboxing, but uncorrected game speed is pure AIDS.

I like the PAL version of Super Metroid.

>> No.10609202

Unofficial mags mentioned it from tje start ( at least snes). They'd have to put seperate listings for ntsc and pal mario kart record laps

>> No.10609316

>>10607343
>You can't progress in Ducktales like 10 minutes in to the game because jumping mechanic is tied to gamespeed.
And yet I could beat the PAL version as a kid without issues. Stop talking nonsense.

>> No.10609332

Shmups and rhythm games are better in pal.

>> No.10609434

>>10606907
The second example is either extreme copium or a severe case of misinformation. RARE primarily developed for the US audience first and other regions 2nd. It's the reason RARE games run slower in PAL regions in spite of being developed in Europe. Battletoads was released in the US first, and was patched when it was released in EU and Japan to make the game easier (it addition to the 50hz 'slowdown'). There is no "60hz glitch" making the turbo tunnel nearly impossible. It's just challenging. Playing any wholly original work by RARE will clue you in that theyake challenging games.

>> No.10609451

>>10606736
I’m from the UK I import NTSC versions of games. I flatly refuse to play PALshit.

>> No.10609487

The one thing PAL has going for it is that because it required at least SOME reworking to make the PAL release they had to go fetch the programmers again and so it's fairly common that they fix bugs that were present in the US/Jap releases. Granted bugs in the 8/16 bit gens were usually not massively game breaking, just minor foibles, but still, a benefit is a benefit.
One of the things I was most surprised at when I started collecting jap games was how many more bugs there were even compared to the US versions. The japs had to put up with all sorts of shit. Like stuff you can't even 100% like Fatal Frame/Rei 4 where they cocked up the ghost scripts and they don't set the right flags.

>> No.10609547

>>10608007
That has never made it retro (and never will), nostalgiafag.

>> No.10609605

>>10609434
By the time Rare we're a dully fledged Nintendo partner in the N64 era they were making games aimed at the Japanese and US market but at the time of making Battletoads they were plucky underdogs trying to get the approval and attention of Nintendo. Battle toads was released in Europe first > then North America and then later in Japan which is when they modified the game to make it easier for the Japanese audiences. The Turbo tunnel is nearly impossible in the NA version and is easier to complete in the European version due to timings alone, there are no other differences between the NA and Europe versions like there is with the Japanese versions which has all the tweaks to make things easier,

>> No.10609671

>>10608710
Final Fantasy X on PS2 runs slow with blackbars, if you want shitty 6th gen PAL ports there is quite a few they are all PS2 games from japanese developers

>> No.10609697

>>10609671
Square showed little love for Euros. Half the catalogue was never released and the half that was tended to be a shoddy release. Capcom was just as lazy but they released more of their stuff so we at least got to play the street fighters and megamans and even the breath of fires.

>> No.10609783

>>10609671
On the flipside pal got the international editions. The international XII is the better version.

>> No.10610710

>>10608420
In many cases being lazy has nothing to do with it. Speed scaling a games logic is often literally impossible. Pretty much all pal "optimized" games are a mangled mess where the physics does not quite work how it should, and various parts of the game are all running at various incorrect rates. Pal optimization is bad, slow is better that mangled.

>> No.10610723

>>10607995
You're aware of how short a console generation is, and how long it takes to grow up, yes? Our childhoods do not neatly fit into a single generation. I had a PS2 as a child, and I'm 30 now. I also had a SNES and 64. We grow up over several of these, and thinking somebody is underage because of a particular one they had is pretty fucking stupid of you.

>> No.10610842

>>10609605
I'm not even talking about how Rare was a defacto 2nd party developer. They had been developing games for the NES/Famicom as early as 87, and got Nintendo's attention by either stealing or reverse engineering a dev kit (forget which offhand). They had made Slalom for Nintendo. They continued to be a development powerhouse for the platform, developing over 30 games for the NES. Every source I've seen lists Battletoads as having a 93 release, 2 years after the US release. The EU version has the glitch in Clinger Winger patched. I was wrong about the EU version having the same changes that Japanese release, but your statement of "the NTSC version being bugged because of 60hz" is just outright incorrect, much like everything else you've said about Battletoads.

>> No.10610916

>>10607230
>Wasn't Ape Escape optimized for PAL?
That's the version I played and I don't really remember any type of "slowdown".
A bunch of games were optimized for PAL. And if you're playing a RPG you will hardly notice any difference.

>> No.10610924

>>10607995
2004 was 25 years ago.

>> No.10610940

>>10609671
Americans got cucked just as hard with FFX, given there was no official release of the International version until the shitty remaster. Fortunately, these days it's easy to just emulate the Japanese International release.

>> No.10611083

>>10609783
Nah, it wasn't like FFX. Euro and Murican FFXII are the same content-wise.
XII was delayed in Europe almost a year after the Japanese release, but it wasn't delayed long enough to get the International version.

>> No.10611168

>>10606836
>my entire childhood was lie
I mean, for a lot of people their childhood was translated games that were essentially just rewrites.

Basically anyone who wasn't a child in Japan had a fake childhood. If you made me choose between 50hz and translated games, I'd pick 50hz all day long. Star Light zone at least sounds better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZgapK14qwk

>> No.10611393
File: 285 KB, 720x720, 1637510468882.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10611393

>>10606736
Yes because it's nice to have a pal while playing...

>> No.10611461
File: 275 KB, 640x624, peaksoul.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10611461

>>10606736
40something boomer here. 8- and 16-bit PAL was absolutely atrocious. Slow as molasses and squashed aspect ratio with ugly black bars at top and bottom of the screen. Casuals didn't really care but even back then enthusiasts modded their consoles and played imports, especially with 16-bit gen.

Paying top coomlector $$$ for PAL SNES games etc. is a dead giveaway that the buyer is a "relive muh childhood" sentimental nostalgia fag with too much money to burn and wasn't really into it that much when shit was current. Euro gaming chads in the 90's would always go for the JP version (or burger if it was a text-heavier game). Plus, the box art and manuals were so much more soulful compared to the multi-lingual black-and-white shit PALfags had to contend with.

>> No.10611476

>>10611168
Ketamine Sonic.

>> No.10611502

>>10606736

Yes. No problem as long as it's stable.
The frameate is not as important, it's sudden CHANGES in framerate that is jarring.

>> No.10611883

>>10606736
50 fps games are easier to emulate, so it's my goto if the speed is correct

>> No.10612547

>>10606736
We prefer to be called people of pal.

>> No.10614557
File: 125 KB, 1080x1575, Sonic Smoking zian728.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10614557

>>10611476
I kek'd

>> No.10615720

>>10611393
With pal you're never alone.

>> No.10616425
File: 162 KB, 1280x720, pnp.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10616425

>>10611393
guess you posted the wrong image, here's the right one mate :)

>> No.10616435

>>10611168
o yes Super Mario Bros. with FAKE English text is nothing but a worthless pathetic unplayable FATUOUS sham whereas Super Mario Bros. at 50 Hz is glorious Japanese enlightenment and truth that has only been adorably slowed down a little in a way that causes no harm whatsoever