XENOGEARS

[Anonymous No.1057817]

On the night /vr/ started, I made a Xenogears thread. And it was fantastic.

Things seem to have changed around here since then. But let's take some time to discuss what I consider to be one of the greatest RPGs ever made.

I know it has its flaws. And theres always a lot of talk about the second disc. But the story is heartrending and incredibly ambitious in terms of scope, the soundtrack is stellar and the gameplay is fun.

http://youtu.be/SIF2crvBSDU

[Anonymous No.1057826]

>>1057817

Agreed. There really hasn't been a story in JRPGs that has come close to what Xenogears tried to do. It wasn't perfect in execution, but had it been and the funding been right, it would be one of the most revered franchises today.

>tfw when you'll never know a love that spans millenia

[Anonymous No.1057829]

>>1057817
Agreed. There really hasn't been a story in JRPGs that has come close to what Xenogears tried to do. It wasn't perfect in execution, but had it been and the funding been right, it would be one of the most revered franchises today.

tfw when you'll never know a love that spans millenia

[Anonymous No.1057847]

doth thou desire the power?

[Anonymous of Jacksonville No.1057881]

LET'S KILL GOD WITH MECHS the game.

I enjoyed reading the Xenogears website where one guy plays the game and then tries to make sense of what happened in each scene and why every character was so fucking stupid.

[Anonymous No.1057902]

>>1057881

Why does God need a spaceship. I fucking love the Xenogears story and I still think that site is hilarious. Shame he never finished.

And OP I remember the early Xenogears threads. It was so refreshing to talk to other people that liked it. As for the second disc thing it never bothered me. I didn't even know it "wasn't complete" until I read that online years and years after I played it.

[Anonymous No.1057905]

>>1057817
That thread was fantastic. if you were the OP, I tip my hat to you. That thread made me hopeful for this board.

[Anonymous No.1057962]

>>1057902

Same here. At the time, in a post FFVII world, the idea of a game being more story centric was so awesome that I wasn't bothered at all by the first chapter of that second disc.

It wasn't really as bad as people make it out to be. It only suffered from "man I wish I could have played that part instead of hearing about it", which is kind of an issue you see all the time in modern games.

[Anonymous No.1057984]

Two of the main villains are actually the main character.

[Anonymous No.1058002]

>>1057984

I can only think of one.

[Anonymous No.1058001]

I don't think you can do a more epic jrpg.

You start out in a small country village and end up discovering your whole civilization is just the result of an interstellar super weapon trying to repair itself over the past 10000 years. It draws energy from the Zohar, an infinite energy engine that draws power from a creature it has trapped from a higher dimension.

[Anonymous No.1058032]

>>1058001

Not to mention the love story. I would actually say that Xenogears might have one of the best love stories ever told in vidya. Shit is trans-generational, tragic and a pretty believable situation all together.

Also, is this one of the only JRPGs that directly implied sex happened off screen with obscured nudity?

[Anonymous No.1058060]

>>1057817
dayam. I remember that thread.
I really want to play it again, but haven't been able to play any game for more than 5 minutes recently.
been learning some of the score on piano though.

I miss the days when I played it, even though it wasn't too long ago.
I actually played it on an Xbox emulator, which had occasional slow-downs but was still great.

[Anonymous No.1058084]

>>1058002

Major Spoilers. Don't read if you havent played!:
he's referring to the fact that Grafh is one of the reincarnations of Fei. And Id is also Fei.

[Anonymous No.1058093]

>>1058060

>tfw u hear this for the first time in 10 years

http://youtu.be/SOetrgQge8A

>>1058060

Love that artwork.
I wish Xenogears could get a revival. And not just Xenoblade or X.

[Anonymous No.1058098]

http://youtu.be/dGPVMl6IbSc

[Anonymous No.1058215]

Of all of the retro JRPGs that I would love to get a good retooling, it'd be this one. With the proper budget and time put into it, it easily could have been one of the greatest JRPGs ever made, IMO.

[Anonymous No.1058261]

>>1058093
Hopefully X will have a good story. As flawed as Xenosaga is (and it is pretty fucking flawed) it had a good story. Not as well executed and (good) crazy as Gears, but a good story.

Xenoblade's story was kinda garbage. Well executed, paced, garbage mind you, but garbage. I'd take a flawed Xenogears over Xenoblade any day. That said I loved the setting design and the gameplay was nice. Though not piloting mechs was COMPLETE bullshit.

[Anonymous No.1058267]

>>1058215
>it easily could have been one of the greatest JRPGs ever made, IMO.
Now, this is entirely my opinion, but it is, flaws and all.

But yes, with more care from Square it'd have turned into an even bigger masterpiece.

[Anonymous No.1058537]

I never played Xenogears, and every time I see people talking about it, it's usually a mix of good and bad reactions, usually with a mention to disc 2.
So what's so bad/good about it?
Can you sell me on it /vr/?

[Anonymous No.1058563]

>>1058537
Basically, disc 2 has like 1/3rd of the intended content, so huge sections of it are just story summary.

[Anonymous No.1058650]

>>1058261

X won't have a focus on story like Saga and Gears. Stop hoping for it when Takahashi has already said that he's given up on games that put story first.

[Anonymous No.1058903]

>>1058537

That depends.

It depends on what you want from a JRPG.
What this guy said...

>>1058563

is true. But keep in mind that it's only how the game appears in retrospect. Honestly, the transition isn't as jarring as people make it out to be and many only recognized it after this fact was made public.

Also, Disc One has a lot of meat to it. So the game being two discs is more of a benefit to the story than a detriment to the game. I can safely say that as complicated as the story gets, it actually ties up all of its loose ends by the ending.

So, really, what it boils down to is what you want out of a game. This is easily one of the best stories told in a JRPG. It's got an incredible soundtrack by the same guy who did Chrono Trigger/Cross (much of the team worked on those games). The battle system is refreshing. You alternate between fighting as a human and piloting a giant mech in battle and can switch at pretty much any time.

Really, the only thing it catches flack for is that second disc. Which, if you can forgive the fact they had a budget cut, is still pretty enjoyable if the story sucked you in. It's on PSN. Give it a try, anon.

[Anonymous No.1058905]

>>1058903
Alright Anon, I'll keep it in the back of my mind if I find a disc for sale. I honestly prefer emulating rather than purchasing digital downloads.

[Anonymous No.1058918]

>>1058905

I played it with an emulator a few months ago. Worked out pretty nicely.

[Anonymous No.1059020]

>>1057962
I hope X has dolphin people too.

[THE GREAT LEON !!1lTeau7nbNO No.1059379]

>the Rope of Robots person didn't come back from the dead yet

Fuck.

[Anonymous No.1059426]

>>1059379

I feel bad that I can't enjoy that. Everyone raves about how funny it is, but when I read it I can only find myself wanting to correct the things he gets completely wrong.

[THE GREAT LEON !!1lTeau7nbNO No.1059434]

>>1059426
I wish there was a happy medium between the two notable XG LPs. Rope of Robots has the smarter author and more entertaining literary tone, but the other one that's actually finished is more thorough and studied.

[Anonymous No.1059437]

>Xenogears thread

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfPHwKA1VQU

[Anonymous No.1059459]

I love this game. When I was playing it I always wondered why they didn't include the parts they summarized but I guess I know why now. First I had ever heard about the cutbacks. Alright guys. Who's your favorite character. Mine is citain. He's got cool combos a killer backstory and has some of the best etc is going on moments. Also what's your favorite Meech. Mine is Ramsus's Meech. It looks so badass

[Anonymous No.1059760]

>>1059459

I actually really like Elly. She is a strong female character that manages to balance being a complete badass without becoming some fucking feminist stereotype. She's pretty damn feminine. And her story arc is pretty fucking impressive. Fei's is great, but as far as the whole reincarnation thing is concerned, hers really takes the cake.

[Anonymous No.1059790]

>>1058650
It doesn't need to have a focus on the story to have a good story. It just needs to not be fucking shit.

But hey, at least we get to pilot mechs again.

[Anonymous No.1059812]

>>1059790

Generally you need to put some effort into writing a story to actually have a good story. For Xenoblade, they hired an anime writer to write the entire scenario, albeit with guidance from Takahashi. Also, Xenoblade was the first time Takahashi has made a game where they designed the game before writing the story rather than the other way around.

I suppose there's always a chance he's had a change of heart, but I really wouldn't have any hope for that unless he specifically stated so in an interview about the game.

[Anonymous No.1059846]

Some of you might have that one game that you don't play anymore, because it reminds you of a bad time in your life, or because you were playing it when something bad happened to you. Xenogears is that game for me. I posted about it in detail on /v/ one time and was surprised I got some actual compassion, but I won't do it again here.

That said, I still love this game. I just can't play it anymore. The music is what really establishes the atmosphere of the game for me. Lost, Broken Shards and Flight are probably the game's definitive pieces in my book. That and the battle themes, but battle themes in every RPG get pounded into your face until you like them.

[Anonymous No.1059870]

>>1059846

As a side note, why the hell is that? Not retro, but fuck man, we can manage like 20 hours of voice acting but it's the same fucking battle theme every battle in 2013?

That said, I know that feel. This game isn't that game for me. Nier is. But I'll never forget the time I played through the game as an adult and was shocked by the themes of the game. Xenogears is no fucking joke.

Chu Chu, however, is.

[Anonymous No.1059912]

Great game. Really reminded me of Evangelion which I love so that's always nice.

One question though.

WHEN EVERYONE GOT EMERALDA AND STONE PISSED OFF WITH HER

HOW DID FEI/ID GET OFF THE YGGDRASIL WITH WELTALL-ID

I MEAN IT EITHER FLEW OUT OF THE CEILING WHICH IT OBVIOUSLY DIDN'T

OR IT USED THE CATAPULT LAUNCHER BUT SOMEBODY WOULD HAVE OBVIOUSLY NOTICED THAT HAPPENING

[Anonymous No.1059913]

>>1059870
>Xenogears is no fucking joke.

I know what you mean. That little kid was hate incarnate. Kind of disturbed me.

[Anonymous No.1059923]

>>1059912

Wasn't Fei on-board the Thames at that point, along with Weltall?

[Anonymous No.1059930]

>>1059923
I'm pretty sure he was on Yggdrasil. When everyone came back, wasn't Fei standing next to Weltall kinda in a daze?

[Anonymous No.1059932]

>>1059930
Sorry, I forgot to mention they were in the hangar at this point.

[Anonymous No.1059941]

>>1059930

The reason Fei wasn't with the party when going into the Ethos Dig Site was because he was hospitalized aboard the Thames. That much I know for sure. I just don't know where Weltall was located at the time.

[Anonymous No.1059950]

It was pretty cool when he got his sword though.

[Anonymous No.1059967]

>>1059941

Nevermind, I was wrong, he was on the Yggdrasil at that point. Ignore me.

[Anonymous No.1060138]

>>1059950

I don't think Citan was an asshole, really. He spread himself too thin and still had old allegiances to the place he grew up in.

[Anonymous No.1060202]

>>1060138

I don't even think that is necessarily true. He wasn't really loyal to Solaris anymore. I always got the impression that while he was "working" for them he was pretty much doing whatever he wanted to anyways. He just maintained his ties with them because it let him know what all was going on. That's just how I always saw it.

[Anonymous No.1060207]

>>1060202

He's still friends with Cain, and clearly still has lingering feelings of friendship with Ramsus.

[Anonymous No.1060220]

>>1060207

Well yeah but that's mainly because they were his friends.

[Anonymous No.1060238]

>>1060202
>>1060207
>>1060220

Reminder that we are talking about a JRPG here.

God, they really don't make them like this anymore. Not even nostalgiafag. It had problems, but this kind of character depth rarely happens in JRPGs anymore. Characters are pretty much caricatures of people and if there is any semblance of a lingering past with another character, it is made into a setpiece of the story with no need for speculation, rather than light nuances like Xenogears had.

[Anonymous No.1060328]

>>1059950
He really was. Them sword based deathblows, man.

Still, he seriously made the game easier for me. It's more challenging not to include him in the party, IMO.

[Anonymous No.1060497]

There was a guy who started dumping scans of some kind of xenogears official encyclopedia, but he stopped short and said to just find a torrent. I found one without seeds last spring, but I'm curious if there's a DDL out there?

[Anonymous No.1060524]

>>1060497
xenoverse.xenotensei.com/links/%5BUltimateGraphics%5D_Xenogears_Perfect_Works.rar

The translation is pretty bad, but it's the only complete one.

[Anonymous No.1060546]

>>1060497
it's called xenogears perfect works, there are some partial translations floating around, two are on gamefaqs actually.

[Anonymous No.1060560]

Does anyone else wake up at night sweating, wondering why Lost Jerusalem was sealed off and what would happen if we go back?

[Anonymous No.1060572]

I finished Xenogears a couple of weeks ago and I'm very mixed about it.

I started playing it and enjoyed it a lot in the start, but as soon as I went into the first mayor dungeon (the underground cave with Bart) i realized what huge problems the game had.

The first thing is that the encounter rate is high, and too damn high even when compared to other games of the era and earlier.

The second big flaw is that the dungeons are often built like giant mazes which is already makes things confusing, what makes it even worse is that you can rotate the camera which is often necessary to see where you are going and there's almost never a map, not to mention that everything looks the same.

The combat also felt like it dragged on too much since you often had to either keep enemies alive to try to train up your deathblows or finish them in 1-2 strikes by using your deathblows which made the combat still last really long because of the fancy deathblow animations but still present no challenge at all. The bosses often had rather interesting tricks to them which I appreciate.

The text scroll is too slow in the game also which often made the cutscenes and dialogue sequences feel like they lasted forever and the second disc only made this even more annoying.

The story is superb though and the characters are all well written and executed. I hated the game when I played it and it was often (especially when I just entered a dungeon) that I put it down and didn't touch it for weeks or even months sometimes but now after I'm done with it I remember it lot more fondly than I did when playing it.

TL;DR - the story is good, everything else is more or less crap. Though I still enjoy it somewhat.

Just wanted to put down my opinion as someone who just finished the game for the first time.

[Anonymous No.1060623]

>>1060524

Well that was easy enough, thanks anon.

[Anonymous No.1060626]

So guys, I've never beaten Xenogears, though I have made it to the second disc. I've done this multiple times, but then for whatever reason, I end up not finishing the game.

Is it worth replaying (or downloading a save file) just to see the second disc? About how many hours should I expect the second disc to take me?

[Anonymous No.1060639]

>>1060572
>The second big flaw is that the dungeons are often built like giant mazes which is already makes things confusing, what makes it even worse is that you can rotate the camera which is often necessary to see where you are going and there's almost never a map, not to mention that everything looks the same.

I literally went GIT GUD here. I see dungeon crawling is not your thing.

I never had a single problem with the dungeons (Except in certain jump section).

Overall the only problem I agree with is the text scroll. Everything else I just disagree wildly.

[Anonymous No.1060642]

>>1060626

The second disc is about 10 hours long. I'd say it's worth it, shit gets extra crazy on the second disc.

[Anonymous No.1060685]

>>1060639

I don't have problems with dungeon crawling in general, it's just that the dungeons in Xenogears everything looks the same and that coupled with the rotating camera and the fact that there most of the time weren't any map made them really disorientating.

In a game like SMT 1 & 2 which are also very dungeon crawl-y I didn't mind it because you had means to actually locate where you are and where you have been. Other PS1 RPG's didn't suffer from this either because they had pre-rendered backgrounds which also made it easy to locate where you have been.

Xenogears dungeon problem wouldn't even have existed if the encounter rate weren't so absurdly high because then I wouldn't mind getting lost for a minute or two. Or if it had some reliable way to locate where you have been.

[Anonymous No.1060912]

>>1058215
If if were remade with a high budget, all the money would go into making
effeminate male characters and shitty Square Enix™ CGI.
It is one of the greatest JRPGS of all time IMO.

[Anonymous No.1060976]

>>1060138
He knowingly let Billy's dad try to kill himself in the stupid bulletmech of his own design.
He let Fei and Elly eat soylent green right before revealing it was people.
And of course, yes, he was a spy.

[Anonymous No.1061103]

>>1057817

It's goofy weeb bullshit. I love it dearly, but it's goofy pretentious twaddle.

[testament !!6zh+VGuvEIV No.1062283]

>>1060976
>He knowingly let Billy's dad try to kill himself in the stupid bulletmech of his own design.

Citan didn't design the Buntline. it's likely Solarian, like Billy's gear, but it's unclear how or when Jessie managed to get ahold of it. according to Perfect Works, it functions like a normal gear, but in order to make use of the "cannon mode" it must be held by another gear. the PW translation also implies that using "cannon mode" doesn't always kill the pilot, but on the other hand you have Citan in-game building suspense saying that it uses it's pilot as the warhead, and later Jessie explaining his own survival by off-handedly saying "i made a few modifications" or something to that effect

i was around for the entirety of the first few Xenogears threads. i haven't posted as much during the later ones, but then again, there's not too many new or otherwise interesting things that can be said about the game.
i can clear up any story-related questions or misconceptions, if i notice any. story discussion is something xeno threads always seem to be lacking; there are not many places where there is good xeno discussion to be had, so i'll use the occasion to do the game some justice
assuming a trip for this thread

[Anonymous No.1062296]

>>1062283
>Citan didn't design the Buntline

[Anonymous No.1062297]

>>1062296

And I posted the wrong page. Go me.

[testament !!6zh+VGuvEIV No.1062305]

>>1062297
well! is this even mentioned in the game or is it just this blub of PW? funny how i still manage to learn new things about this game

[Anonymous No.1062308]

>>1062305
>well! is this even mentioned in the game or is it just this blub of PW?

>"Too late...! Billy!
>That is a weapon that uses its pilot as the warhead!"
>...
>"Billy... I should not have made such a thing..."
http://www.xgam.org/xenogears/script/pt14_ch35.html

[testament !!6zh+VGuvEIV No.1062336]

>>1062308
i see. i didn't know he designed all those gears though. good stuff m8

[Anonymous No.1063060]

>>1060976
Why would stopping them THEN make a difference? Haven't they been ingesting that shit their entire lives?

[Anonymous No.1063065]

>>1060328
Man, Citan with buffed speed was insane. I think he would get about 3 turns to Fei's 1.

[Anonymous No.1063175]

Best track
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QezcSXoHtDE

[Anonymous No.1063391]

>>1063060
Fei didn't live on Solaris, and Elly lived in a very privileged home, and her dad knew about the Soylent System, so I doubt she had any either.

[Anonymous No.1064505]

>>1063065

I beg to differ.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT5qYTlgLnk&list=PLC537D1513657B4E2

Nothing beats this.

[Anonymous No.1067345]

bummmmp, don't let xenothread die

[Anonymous No.1067434]

so is this one of those games like the FF series that is a bad game but praised for an easy story?

Is there more to the game than grinding, spamming 1-2 different types of attacks, learning elemental weaknesses, and occasionally casting heal

[Anonymous No.1067664]

>>1067434
>easy story

Ahah...AHAHAHAHA!

[Anonymous No.1067791]

>>1067434
>>1067664

Yeah. "Easy story" is probably the last thing someone could say about Xenogears.

It's definitely a traditional RPG, with few really interesting elements. (IE: The ability to call your mech in the middle of battle against human sized enemies and literally stop on them)

It has issues. But the story is far from easy and is not one of them.

[Anonymous No.1067851]

>>1063391
Yeah, but didn't that stuff implant the limiters in them?

[Anonymous No.1068246]

>>1067434
It has fucking robots.

Also the combo based gameplay is nice, and the world is interesting.

And you can JUMP!

[Anonymous No.1068357]

>>1060572
i kind of agree with you, although i didn't really have problems with the 'mazes' as you call them. some of the platformer parts were a bit frustrating though.

on the whole, i thought the gameplay of xenogears was subpar. the combat & customization systems were way too shallow and i found myself getting somewhat bored w/ fighting fairly early on

however, with that said, xenogears is still my favorite rpg (and possibly my favorite video game). the atmosphere, music, and especially the story are superb. in fact, i actually PREFERRED disc 2 because there were less boring fights and it focused on the juicy stuff -- the story

[Anonymous No.1071459]

Okay let me preface this by saying I'm pretty dense. That being said, I still don't really know what the fuck is going on in this game. I've played it beginning to end at least five times and I'm still not sure what everything is or what everyone's motives are. I mean I get a lot of it and I love what I understand but it's just so... confusing. Like, Fei and Ellie are infinitely reincarnated, right? Why? What exactly is the Wave Existence? What is Krelian's ultimate goal?

I'm sorry, I just don't get it.

[Anonymous No.1074634]

>>1071459
1. Because that's how the world works in the XG universe; infinite reincarnations. Takahashi hints at this with XS (whose plot is kind of based off XG Ep1's events with some changes which make them a bit incompatible by Perfect Works' info) since some characters bear distinct resemblances to XG characters, but the reincarnation system is also mentioned in the supplementary materials like Perfect Works.

2. The Wave Existence is a being from the dimension above the one we can see in XG which allows for infinite energy production when harnessed by the Zohar. In the Gnostic symbolism of the game, it seems that it represents the Monad, or the "true" God in Gnosticism, as opposed to the demiurge, represented by Deus.

3. From my understanding which is supplemented by analysis on sites like Xenotensei, Krelian's goal actually changes over the years. At first when Sophia dies he wants to create God with his own hands because he doesn't believe God exists. When he gets in contact with Cain and the Gazel and presumably they inform him about Deus, he joins the plan to resurrect Deus, but apparently (and this is hard to infer from the game itself so it may or may not be true) when he gets the data from Raziel--after you fight True Weltall in the game--he finds out about the existence of the "true" God trapped within the Zohar and decides to use Fei and the team to release it. That seems to make sense because he doesn't seem too disturbed by the fact that you defeat Deus and the embodiment of Miang's power in Oroborus, and is immediately off to ascend to the higher dimension with the Wave Existence.

[Anonymous No.1074654]

>>1074634
Also, Krelian's line at the end, "I knew the only one who could forgive me was God" really hints at him knowing about the Wave Existence at least after the Raziel point, because Deus can't really 'forgive' anything; it's an interplanetary invasion weapon created by humans, not really "god"

[Anonymous No.1074675]

I wanted to die.

[Anonymous No.1074681]

>>1074675
If someone took all the time to draw that just because of a tiny part of one dungeon, he must've had it effect a severely strenuous influence on his mind.

[Anonymous No.1077267]

>>1057902
>Why does God need a spaceship
That thing wasn't God. do you even storyline?

[Anonymous No.1077448]

>>1057817
>XENOGEARS

Only way to play it.

>Controls are put back to the original Japanese controls.
>In-game battle combos are back to the original Japanese ones (matching Japanese controls).
>Audio in the Full Motion Videos is in Japanese with English subtitles.
>Voices in the game are back to the original Japanese ones (in battles + certain cutscenes).
>The weight unit in character's stats is back to kilos (.kgs instead of .lbs).
>Emeralda's icon eyebrow transparency is corrected.
>The selection arrow in shop menus doesn't overlap choices (Buy, Sell, Exit) anymore.

http://alcahest.perso.sfr.fr/XG2.0/xg2.0.html`

[Anonymous No.1077479]

>>1077448
>>The weight unit in character's stats is back to kilos (.kgs instead of .lbs).
Fuck that, I can't read that euroshit.

[Anonymous No.1077782]

>>1077267
Are you seriously retarded? The other guy asked for the name of the site and the Anon gave it to him.

http://whatdoesgodneedwithastarship.com/

[Anonymous No.1077942]

>>1077448
Not really that significant of a change as far as I can tell.

[Anonymous No.1078005]

>>1077782

Thanks for the backup. In his defense though I probably should have linked the site like you so graciously have.

[Anonymous No.1078049]

>>1077479
>Fuck that, I can't read that euroshit.

No, just Americans are sticking to lbs. The ENTIRE WORLD goes with kg.

[Anonymous No.1078389]

>>1078049

I hate to fuel this /b/-level argument but I work in a laboratory setting in America and we use metric.

P.S. I love Xenogears. I wish I was Bart and I wish my brother was Sigurd.

[Anonymous No.1078432]

>>1077448
fuck off weeaboo...
ok I admit it, I actually do prefer the undub; "traditional" rpg controls and not cringing at the (sparse) voice-acting is noice