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/vr/ - Retro Games

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10507346 No.10507346 [Reply] [Original]

Would the Amiga have been taken more seriously as a game platform if they'd made an actual controller for it instead of just a joystick? Would better games have been made?

>> No.10507356

Just play with keyboard like every PC gamer did back in the day, faggot.

>> No.10507359

Amiga games would still suffer from being Atari ST ports. You need to give that computer proper controller too to make an impact on game design.

>> No.10507373

Amiga is taken seriously by real enthusiasts and intellectuals.

>> No.10507374

>>10507356
it would have been nice to have the option, nigger. I'll use a keyboard if I want to work on a spreadsheet, some people would rather sit back in a chair with a controller than have to lean over a desk to play a game. if they bothered to make a joystick it's fair to consider if they'd made a normal controller too

>> No.10507391
File: 273 KB, 1280x960, eaeb378045e0b65290631fc6875f.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10507391

The joystick is the best thing about it.
Utterly mogs dpads. A good joystick was like having a small arcade stick and was able stand up to the abuse of games like Summer Olympics.

>> No.10507410

>>10507346
Amiga was not considered a serious platform because it was managed by the retards at Commodore who had zero idea what the market wanted.

>> No.10507424
File: 51 KB, 660x574, IMG_0417.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10507424

>>10507410
So what did the market want?

>> No.10507428

>>10507373
Auster...

>> No.10507458

>>10507410
well obviously. but games were getting made for it regardless, perhaps if it had a proper controller those games would have been a little more fun to play and better games might have been made. of course Commodore's mismanagement is why it didn't happen (until it was too late).

>> No.10507485

>>10507424
The market wanted huge performance gains on a year-by-year basis like it was on PC, but that retard will tell you that the market wanted Amiga to be like his shitty tendie toys.

>> No.10507537

>>10507424
The market wanted better performance while keeping compatibility. Amigas couldn't do either of those properly. PCs simply caught up and beat them.

>> No.10507619
File: 34 KB, 500x667, 1682143685440493.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10507619

>>10507346
>Would the Amiga have been taken more seriously as a game platform if they'd made an actual controller for it instead of just a joystick?
The vast majority of PC players didn't use controllers back then and it wasn't a problem so you're gonna have to find something else to blame for the death of the Amiga

>> No.10507636

>>10507373
This.

>> No.10507645

>>10507537
Those are Motorola's fault. The 68010 and later versions of 68K aren't fully backwards compatible with the previous ones. Intel however made sure that all their processors are BC. The death of the entire micro industry could be traced back to Motorola's failure to compete with Intel.

>> No.10507665 [DELETED] 

>>10507537
>Amigas couldn't do either of those properly
did both just fine
>The market wanted huge performance gains on a year-by-year basis
lmao. that never happened.

>The 68010 and later versions of 68K aren't fully backwards compatible with the previous ones.
they are 100% backward compatible. if you want to be a repulsive liar, consider creating a reddit account. but i'm afraid even there you will be outed as a delusional compulsive liar that has to make up fantasy stories instead of doing basic research.

>> No.10507710

>>10507537
>Amigas couldn't do either of those properly
did both just fine
>The market wanted huge performance gains on a year-by-year basis
lmao. that never happened.
>>10507645
>The 68010 and later versions of 68K aren't fully backwards compatible with the previous ones.
they are 100% backward compatible. if you want to be a repulsive liar, consider creating a reddit account. but i'm afraid even there you will be outed as a delusional compulsive liar that has to make up fantasy stories instead of doing basic research.

>> No.10507716

>>10507346
>>10507410
It's taken quite seriously. There are great games for it. God game genre was born on the amiga, and its blitter graphics and rich sound are still a thing of wonders to this day. It's not as popular as consoles because of its high price. You could get a Genesis for $190 while the Amiga 500 would be like over $500 in the same year, without the monitor.

I think making the Amiga so groundbreaking in the mid-80s was a mistake. Gamers didn't want a workstation, they wanted a successor to the C64, a cheap gaming capable computer. If the Amiga was a M68000 computer with 256KB of RAM, 6 channel SID successor, and VIC-III graphics co-processor which would just be an enhanced VIC-II with 32 on-screen sprites, four times as big of a color palette, and 32-64KB VRAM segmentation, and floppy drive sold separately, it could be sold at a price not much higher than the Genesis and SNES and still bring commodore a healthy margin, just like the C64 was. If Tramiel was still the president of the company he'd prefer to produce such a system, he wanted computers for the masses not the offices.

Regardless, the Amiga sold 6 million units. It wasn't a failure, it brought Commodore fortune. Commodore died because they couldn't move on from the C64 and Amiga, they failed to make a new worthwhile product.

>> No.10507719

>>10507374
go away James

>> No.10507730

>>10507716
>Commodore died because they couldn't move on from the C64 and Amiga,
commodore died because of incompetence and bankruptcy. had nothing to do with the platforms. amiga would still be alive today if commodore wasn't managed a two visionless assholes. c64 was still manufactured into the 1990s.

>> No.10507738

>>10507730
Nah, Amiga was doomed along with every other non-Intel.

None of them survived except Apple and they only survived because Microsoft rescued them to protect themselves against monopoly lawsuits.

>> No.10507747

why didn't the Amiga succeed? this is why.

>guy goes into a computer store
>sees an Amiga with the bouncing ball demo running
>"uh, neat. can it run Lotus 123?"
>"nope."
>"oh sorry, never mind then."

>> No.10507774

>>10507730
The platform was fine but it was getting too old. Not to say that newer platforms with more modern architecture like the Acorn were successful at all though. Commodore however tried to get enter the console business with their outdated product and half assed game library collection.

>> No.10507787

>>10507346
I'm wanting to look into retro computers, specifically the Amiga for it's unique features, where would I look into getting one. Just try to find a good deal on Ebay?

>> No.10507790

>>10507738
>None of them survived except Apple and they only survived because Microsoft rescued them to protect themselves against monopoly lawsuits.
It was a favor owed because Microsoft almost went under in the late 70s owing to being grifted by Commodore but Apple rescued them by licensing BASIC.

>> No.10507836

>>10507787
Don't, Amiga community is absolutely cancerous and Amiga shit is insanely overpriced (due in no small part to that cancerous community).

>> No.10507859

>>10507836
>Amiga community is absolutely cancerous
Why are they so bad?
>and Amiga shit is insanely overpriced
I assume it would be considering how expensive original hardware for retro stuff is getting nowadays.
But i'm interested in Amiga's because of their history and how they were built.

>> No.10507932

>>10507645
It wasn't Motorola's fault that Commodore kept mixing around the expansion ports on every new Amiga, making peripherals incompatible whenever they released a new machine. Or that they axed certain machines half year into being on the market, or released new lower end machines at higher price points (A600). Or that they couldn't come up with a new chipset until the AGA by which time PCs were already equal in capability (and what they couldn't achieve using hardware, they were fast enough to do in software).

Commodore was dumb. They kept making the same mistakes with the Amigas as they did with the C16/+4 line. By the time they got something right, they already had their lead squandered and the IBM PC was too much ahead.

>>10507710
They are not 100% backwards compatible, one or two instructions behave slightly different (I think the TAS instruction was one, but that one locked up the original Amigas anyway). More importantly they also perform some things in less cycles which can break a few tightly controlled games.
But most of the compatibility issues were due to Kickstart versions and differences between the OCS, ECS and AGA chipsets.

>> No.10507954

>>10507932
But there's more. They had to outsource the AGA chipset to Hewlett-Packard as MOS's archaic 1970s chip fab wasn't up to producing it.

>But most of the compatibility issues were due to Kickstart versions and differences between the OCS, ECS and AGA chipsets.
Further, there was the problem with 2kool4skool programmers using the upper four bits of memory pointers for data even though Commodore warned them in the manuals not to do that. This of course broke when you had to use memory pointers beyond $FFFFFF on later 68k CPUs.

>> No.10507964

>>10507859
>Why are they so bad?
Furries and delusional aging Europoors who are convinced that the Amiga could have run Doom and all of the MD Sonic games.

>> No.10507989

>>10507964
>Furries
You talking about that sabrina skunk girl??

>> No.10507997

>>10507964
Doom was actually ported to the Amiga when the source got released.
Never tried it though.

>> No.10508013

>>10507964
>furries
Nintendo fandom has way more of them.
>aging
Doesn't /vr/ hate zoomers?
>convinced that the Amiga could have run Doom
The high end Amiga workstations do.
>and all of the MD Sonic games
Even the NES could run Sonic. There's nothing special about the game.

>> No.10508014

Amiga before AGA had really bad colors, even worse palette than the Mega Drive and very slow sprites, it was a computer and it was used as computer to play games, make music, do pixel art, make games, write programs.

>> No.10508017

>>10507346
The simple fact is that DOS was simply a better, more versatile OS, and if you had an Amiga, you weren't getting DOS. It entered the market not as a platform, but as an identity completely of its own, like Apple, so instead of leaning into the market, it tried to directly compete and was blown the fuck out.

Still highly underrated though.

>> No.10508038

>>10508017
>The simple fact is that DOS was simply a better, more versatile OS, and if you had an Amiga, you weren't getting DOS
It really wasn't. DOS was a super bare-bones crappy OS. People even used to argue that it's more of a fancy bootloader than an actual OS.

Workbench was pretty neat. It had real multitasking (home user Windows took until XP to get it, MacOS until OS X) and it had a builtin scripting language with ARexx that could interface with other applications and allowed you to do automate all kinds of stuff.

>> No.10508064

>>10508013
>Even the NES could run Sonic. There's nothing special about the game.
It could do the Master System Sonic games, not the MD ones. Also the Amiga is a few pegs slower than MD as its CPU loses 20% cycles during screen render.

>> No.10508068

>>10508014
>Amiga before AGA had really bad colors, even worse palette than the Mega Drive and

It displays 32 colors at once, same as the Master System although as bitmaps so you're not restricted to eight colors per each 8x8 block. The total palette is 4096 colors however, much larger than the Mega Drive's 512.

>> No.10508081

>>10508014
Mega Drive came out in 1988, 3 years after the Amiga, didn't come with 512KB expandable RAM or a disk drive, didn't have a sound chip that could play 4 samples at once, and wasn't sold for a very profitable margin.

And while the Genesis' simple tile system was great for basic 2D games, it couldn't transform sprites, render 3D graphics efficiently, and do the cool stuff only the blitter in the Amiga was capable of. The genesis was just master system on steroids while the Amiga was something else entirely new.

>> No.10508092

>>10508014
>Amiga before AGA had really bad colors, even worse palette than the Mega Drive and very slow sprites, it was a computer and it was used as computer to play games, make music, do pixel art, make games, write programs.

I agree it was not up to handling CPS-1 games, it was meant for Might & Magic and flight simulators. Didn't stop US Gold from being delusional enough to try anyway.

>> No.10508102

Imagine the things Japan would've done with software and mod track music if Amiga was popular there.

>> No.10508105

>>10508064
Theres a Sonic clone on the Amiga. The graphics might not be as detailed, but it's high res, very fast, and has parallax scrolling. Definitely much closer to the genesis sonic than the master system one.
https://youtu.be/PSrLm5175nc

>> No.10508113

>>10508092
>I agree it was not up to handling CPS-1 games, it was meant for Might & Magic and flight simulators. Didn't stop US Gold from being delusional enough to try anyway.
US Gold was a scam outfit in the business of selling you what were in essence Chinese bootlegs of Street Fighter or whatever.

>> No.10508117

>>10508092
It has a few half decent fighting games that didn't look and run bad. It could run SF2 if it needed to although it would need something like 4 disks. US Gold just wanted to make quick bucks.

>> No.10508124

>>10508105
So many poor design decisions here, the most obvious being that his sprite never looks like he has any forward momentum, he just looks like a statue being moved around.

>> No.10508148

everything about Amiga gaming screams fail
it was cool if you were into video production or whatever

>> No.10508303

>yeah if I only use this $1k 68060 board I can run Doom at 12 fps XD

>> No.10508326
File: 117 KB, 650x300, gravis_gamepad.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10508326

>>10507346
>an actual controller for it instead of just a joystick
In what way is a joystick not an actual controller? Or mouse and keyboard for that matter? Do you mean like a gamepad? Because pic related wasn't very popular for the PC either.

>> No.10508329

>>10508326
what the fuck is that dpad

>> No.10508336
File: 110 KB, 2048x982, gravis_stick.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10508336

>>10508329
You could even screw on a stick in the middle, to make it into more of a joystick.

>> No.10508359

>>10508336
Oh it's a female thread! I though it was some random gold-colored ball in the middle of the d-pad.

>> No.10508378
File: 207 KB, 650x400, pc_gamepad.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10508378

>>10508359
Yeah it was a weird beast, and the only console-style PC controller I know of before USB.

>> No.10508384

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RDgt26Zcio

Please explain.

>> No.10508427

>>10508148
Amiga DOES what nitendont and segacant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkBUaEV8Dog
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyA9CupcHK0

>> No.10508443

>>10508384
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqfiZI49g2c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYTZuJt9S8w

Please explain.

>> No.10508545
File: 264 KB, 1280x853, Amiga 3000UX.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10508545

>>10507346
>Would the Amiga have been taken more seriously as a game platform if they'd made an actual controller for it instead of just a joystick? Would better games have been made?

People used mouse and keyboard for games, the joystick was an add-on to create some parity with arcade games that had be ported over. Majority of the games were not control friendly simply because of the genre they were, so it would have made no difference creating a multi button controller for it. When it comes to its successor, the Amiga CD32, it failed for two main reasons. One, It got fucked over due to American legal bollocks, and two, there was way too much competition at that point in time.SNES, Mega Drive, Game Boy, Game Gear, Atari Lynx, Atari Jaguar, 3DO, Playstation, Saturn, the gaming market has never been so overloaded with consumer options like it was mid 90's, there was no way in hell Amiga was going to succeed.

>> No.10508647

>>10508336
>>10508378
wasn't Jazz jackrabbit basically an ad for this thing

>> No.10508896

>>10507932
>one or two instructions behave slightly different
i don't give a fucking shit. all 680x0 chips are binary compatible with original 68000.
> oh the kickstart
that was the only "compatibility" problem, and that was easily fixed by programs such as relokick etc. where you can load up old roms and play most a500 shit. a1000 stuff was a different story but nobody gave a shit until a500 gaming existed.

>> No.10508910

>>10508545
i remember when the cd32 was announced. saw the specs:
> basically a1200 with a slow as fuck CD-ROM
> yep. going to fail.
> *last less than two years*
CDTV did better, only slightly. amazing how commodore were so far ahead of the game at times and squandered every opportunity. if commodore had integrated the mpeg video decoder into the system itself and gave it better video and audio, even just a slight improvement over the a1200, then it would have did well. instead it was just an a1200 with a CD-ROM. cracking groups were quick to covert these games over to run on a stock a1200 minus cd audio tracks.

>> No.10508920
File: 194 KB, 1600x1200, Ms_sidewinder.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10508920

>>10508378
this doesn't ring a bell?

>> No.10509183

>>10507787
Don't buy old computers on eBay, there's a good chance the machine hasn't been properly tested and an even bigger chance it'll be packed like shit and broken on arrival. Find them locally.

>> No.10510018

>>10509183
u mum packed like shit and broken

>> No.10510030

>>10507346
Generally joysticks were more popular for western home computers in that era.
That’s all.

>> No.10510143

>>10508920
That any good? Almost looks like a proto-xbox controller.

>> No.10510251
File: 13 KB, 640x400, 2281985-jazz-jackrabbit-other.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10510251

>>10508647
Yeah I think it even had little gamepad powerups.

>> No.10510268
File: 7 KB, 640x400, wolf3d_000.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10510268

>>10510251
Also Wolfenstein 3D had special support for it.

>> No.10510618

>>10508896
>i don't give a fucking shit. all 680x0 chips are binary compatible with original 68000.

binary compatibility on the CPU means fuck all when the surrounding chipset & memory behaves differently in even the slightest. Are you one of those retards who thinks the Saturn could run Megadrive games because it had a 68k on board?

>> No.10510636

>>10510143
It's awful, the d-pad is a travesty and its shape is uncomfortable.

>> No.10510654

>>10509183
>Find them locally
where at? Like conventions or something?

>> No.10510695

>>10508102
There are already enough pedophile games on the PC-88.

>> No.10510750

>>10507716
>>10508092
It's another one of those topics where delusional amiggers try to pretend their boring simulation "games" were anything but a cope they had before they could emulate real games. Keep playing your "games" where you try to make your spreadsheets .00051% more sufficent or absolute turd like Ambershit.

>> No.10510767

>>10510654
I've had great luck in local Facebook groups and on Facebook marketplace, it's the only reason I use it anymore honestly. Offerup also has some decent deals now and then, but it really depends on how close you are to a major metropolitan area.

>> No.10512382

>>10510618
>binary compatibility on the CPU means fuck all when the surrounding chipset & memory

i thoroughly enjoy how the story changes from
> chips after 68010 aren't compatible
to
> oh yeah. kickstart
and now:
> muh chipsets and memory
i wonder what your next fantasy will be? make it more schizo.
>Are you one of those retards who thinks the Saturn could run Megadrive games because it had a 68k on board?
you'd have to be a fucking moron like yourself to believe such a thing. even writing such a thing suggests to me that you're a fucking moron.

>> No.10512391

>>10512382
Even 68000 and 68010 aren't fully backwards compatible, deal with it. Some games could work on a 68010 swapped megadrive, but most won't.

>> No.10512392

>>10510750
I'd rather play Ambermoon than final fantranny.

>> No.10512398

>>10512392
You don't even know German.

>> No.10512645

>>10512398
Thalion made games for the international market.

>> No.10512654

>>10507346
>>10507391
...I had all these controllers and all the hardware in the pics. Are you fuckers stalking me?

>> No.10513610

>>10507346
but all the best Amiga games are mouse designed, it showed it to be the superior control method and paved the way for the PC

>> No.10514108

>>10512392
And this is why nobody takes Amiga fanboys seriously.

>> No.10515000

>>10510143
It's not a great controller, but it's iconic. It used a proprietary protocol to allow it to have more buttons than a normal Gameport controller. Sadly, Microsoft never made DOS drivers for it.

>> No.10515015

>>10514108
There are people who take nintendo and sega fantroons seriously?

>> No.10515193

>>10513610
>but all the best Amiga games are mouse designed
Ah. That explains why they're such shit. Mice are notoriously bad at video game design.

>> No.10516249
File: 99 KB, 1024x766, agony0.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10516249

>>10508068
The closest Amiga ECS game that I can think of to a Mega Drive was Lethal Weapon. On static images the Amiga was miles ahead of the MD.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wToj4X3o9o

OCS were too brown.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rmXehgdZMw

>> No.10516317

>>10515193
Are consoletards that limp wristed or something?

>> No.10516413

>>10516317
Dude. Your bot is absolute garbage.