/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.10488415]

What's the biggest leap in quality between a retro game and its sequel?

[Anonymous No.10488426]

other contenders would be super mario 64 (self-explanatory), StarFox 64 (more of a remake, but still an insane leap), front mission 2 after FM1 (leap TOO big for the PS1), ace combat 3 after ac2,

[Anonymous No.10488449]

>>10488426
>super mario 64 (self-explanatory)
This doesn't even make any sense. 2D Marios are top tier platformers

[Anonymous No.10488452]

>>10488449
I think he didn't understand the OP. That said, Xenosaga 2 => 3

[Anonymous No.10488475]

can't think of a bigger gap than Street Fighter and Street Fighter II

[Anonymous No.10488494]

>>10488415
if reboots count, ninja gaiden 2004

[Anonymous No.10488502]

persona 1 > persona 2

[Anonymous No.10488547]

>>10488415
You're probably right. GTA3 was such a leap from GTA2, while retaining the core concepts and gameplay elements, that for the first few hours I wasn't sure if I was just dreaming the experience. Other possibilities:
Civ 2 > SMAC
Wasteland > Wasteland 2 (haven't played them, but seems huge)
Warcraft 2 > Warcraft 3
Daggerfall > Morrowind (guessing, haven't played Daggerfall)
Fallout 2 > Fallout (haven't played FO2)

[Anonymous No.10488573]

>>10488502
Not sure if you used the wrong sign but Persona 1 had the most brain dead gameplay of anything I've played. I don't remember even dying. Characters were also surface level besides Maki

[Anonymous No.10488574]

Street fighter
Mario land

[Anonymous No.10488585]

zelda to zelda 2 is the biggest drop in quality

[Anonymous No.10488632]

>>10488415
Heroes 2 to Heroes 3
Rayman to Rayman 2

[Anonymous No.10489243]

>>10488415
Silent Hill 1 to Reddit Hill 2 was the biggest drop in quality
Reddit Hill 2 to Silent Hill 3 was the biggest rise in quality

[Anonymous No.10489306]

>>10489243
I commend your ability to find every possible thread "Reddit Hill 2" can be inserted

[Anonymous No.10489315]

>>10488585
Zelda II is Good, Actually

[Anonymous No.10489328]

>>10488475
Yeah maybe. Street fighter 1 is weird to play now. At the time it came out it seemed fine and maybe even mildly inventive but it was just another arcade game and nobody really gave much of a shit. In retrospect it's downright janky compared to what it became. The sprites don't look right, the animation doesn't look right, it doesn't feel right. Somehow between 1 and 2 they figured it all out

[Anonymous No.10489330]

>>10488475
Bringing up Street Fighter 2 is cheating.

[Anonymous No.10489335]

>>10489328
>Somehow between 1 and 2 they figured it all out
I still think about this part from time to time.
It's like a time traveler went back in time and turned a lame and forgettable game into a billion dollar, multi media, worldwide sensation.

Seriously, like wtf.

[Anonymous No.10489339]

>>10488415
Daggerfall to Morrowind

[Anonymous No.10489489]

>>10488415
Metal Gear skipping the 16-bit era and jumping straight to 3D is a big one.

[Anonymous No.10489535]

>>10489335
It seems like a quantum leap but really, they just...did everything better. The basic premise is the same. It's a testament to how much detail and execution matter

[Anonymous No.10489557]

I can’t think of any series that actually got WORSE during the next generation. Back then most companies that had any experience with a series/franchise managed to successfully met the expectations that came with the transition into new hardware.

[Anonymous No.10489570]

>>10489489
True. People keep asking for MG1+2 remakea but they already happened when they went to 3D.

[Anonymous No.10489801]

>>10488415
>What's the biggest leap in quality between a retro game and its sequel?
Bomberman to Bomberman II on NES.

[Anonymous No.10489886]

[Anonymous No.10489935]

>>10488415
Not really a leap in quality, more like a technological leap. 2 was a good game, 3 was a good game. A leap would be from a shit game to a good one.

[Anonymous No.10489938]

The Lost Age is an apex sequel

Literally every single mechanic, spell and ability from the first game but improved and expanded upon with more difficulty and better level design

[Anonymous No.10489939]

>>10488547
Warcraft 3 isn't even better than Warcraft 2. Warcraft 2 was hugely popular. Warcraft 1 to 2, that may be a bigger leap.
Same with Fallout 2, that one is just a bigger more bloated version of 1. I prefer 1, it's neat.

[Anonymous No.10489940]

>>10488547
Also am I the only one annoyed by people abbreviating Fallout as FO? Where's that O coming from? There was a game in development called Fallout Online, that one we called FO. Now everything is FO apparently

[Anonymous No.10490682]

>>10489489
I was thinking about Metroid jumping to Gamecube as well
>>10489557
The early 3D generation was rough at a lot of points. Off the top of my head, Abe's Exoddus to Munch's Oddysee was a calamitous fall
>>10489935
>>10489939
I guess it's up to interpretation. I didn't take "quality" to mean "rating out of 10", but more the overall product on offer. E.g., GTA2 and 3 had very similar gameplay on paper, but the addition of the third dimension expands that gameplay so much it might as well be entirely new. Saying "you drive cars in both" is a massive oversimplification. The story structure became far more narrative, I'm sure the amount of audio recorded was several times larger, addition of a day/night cycle, ability to transit seamlessly between the three city districts, etc. They're both very fun, but GTA3 maintained that level of enjoyability with a product that contained a much larger amount of "quality" material.
Same with WC2 and 3. From 1 to 2 felt mostly evolutionary rather than revolutionary, and wasn't always a clean upgrade. In particular, 2 lost out on the neutral opponent missions, and IMO the naval missions were usually a complete chore. There are a bunch too, since it was a widely touted addition. Both of these were reverted for 3, which in my opinion is one of the best games ever, whereas WC2 is just fun. The WC3 map editor alone is legendary, and the difference in gameplay depth and variety between it and its predecessor is so staggering it would take multiple posts to try and get into.
>>10489940
FO pretty clearly refers to Fallout and only Fallout, so it's more practical than logical. Nobody abbreviates things to single letters*, so a compromise has to be made. Oddworld gets abbreviated to OW sometimes.
* They will for series, like Z2 for Zelda 2, or Q3 for Quake 3. But people talk about and contrast entries in those series, whereas FO1/2 tend more to get grouped or mentioned as the setting/franchise as a whole. That's my perception, anyway

[Anonymous No.10491084]

Timesplitters to Timesplitters 2
Wolf 3D to Return to Castle Wolfenstein

[Anonymous No.10491091]

>>10489886
yeah there's a strong case for this and civilization 2/3. almost every game series that transitioned from dos to windows 9x had a massive jump

[Anonymous No.10491237]

>>10489557
>I can’t think of any series that actually got WORSE during the next generation
Street Fighter alpha 2 to SF3 NG

[Anonymous No.10491295]

>>10489939
No.

[Anonymous No.10491390]

>>10491237
You could also make a good argument that Castlevania never had a home run success in 3D.

[Anonymous No.10491437]

>>10489489
It's actually not as big a leap as you might think if you've ever played Metal Gear 2, which was basically everything great about Metal Gear Solid just in 2D.

[Anonymous No.10491460]

>>10491437
Yeah, but going from 8-bit sprite-based graphics to fully polygonal characters and environments with full voice acting and a Hollywood movie score?

[Anonymous No.10491468]

>>10488632
Rayman 1 is a great 2D platformer, just too difficult for most people.

[Anonymous No.10491617]

>>10489557
Crash Bandicoot during the 6th gen, which then had another drop during the 7th gen.

[Anonymous No.10491628]

>>10489557
Tomb Raider making the leap from PSX to PS2, ezpz gg

[Anonymous No.10491636]

Montezuma's Return

[Anonymous No.10491647]

>>10491468
It's really not. It's an irritating slow trudge of a game. Even if you play one of those hacked versions that make it a tonne easier, it doesn't actually become fun.

Adventure Island is fun, despite being hard as fuck, because it moves at a brisk pace, and has satisfying level design.

[Anonymous No.10491705]

>>10488449
Exactly. 3D =/= quality. SMW and/or Yoshi's Island are arguably better games than SM64. While it is a very good game, it isn't without its flaws.

[Anonymous No.10491707]

>>10491705
I think OP meant sequels that were an impressive technological leap over their predecessors rather than bad or mediocre that got much improved sequels.

[Anonymous No.10491714]

Tekken 2 to tekken 3

Soul Edge to Soul Calibur 1

Twisted metal 4 to twisted metal black

Duke Nukem to Duke Nukem 3D

Unreal tournament 99 to Unreal Tournament 2k3/2k4

[Anonymous No.10491780]

>>10488426
Most 2D mario games (besides NSMB slop) mogs 3D mario hard

[Anonymous No.10491782]

Ocarina of Time from A Link to the Past was unfathomable at the time

[Anonymous No.10491783]

>>10491780
>slop
>mogs

You gotta stop being like this, anon.

[Anonymous No.10491787]

>>10489886
So many features and simulation layers, it really was a huge leap, even switch to isometric was a huge step up

[Anonymous No.10491789]

>>10491714
>Soul Edge to Soul Calibur 1
This was a downgrade.

[Anonymous No.10491826]

>>10488415
Kid Icarus -> Kid Icarus Uprising

[Anonymous No.10491829]

>>10491707
OP here, I actually meant leaps in how good the games are, not how much the technology improved. Maybe I should've used a different example.

[Anonymous No.10491839]

>>10488415
GTA -> GTA 2
Mortal Kombat 4 -> MK Deception
Daggerfall -> Morrowind

[Anonymous No.10491896]

>>10491839
Mortal Kombat to MK II was a pretty big improvement.

[Anonymous No.10491915]

[Anonymous No.10491923]

>>10491915
Eh, I disagree. The first Hitman game may have been excessively janky because of the weird control scheme, but in terms of graphics and gameplay they only got better incrementally until Blood Money managed to get everything *just* right.

[Anonymous No.10491930]

>>10491923
>Eh, I disagree.
Shut up you prissy faggot.

[Anonymous No.10491945]

Donpachi < Dodonpachi is the shmup version of this phenomenon. Better in every way.

[Anonymous No.10491970]

>>10489938
In a way GS1 is a teaser demo

[Anonymous No.10491974]

>>10489557
Turok Evolution

[Anonymous No.10491976]

>>10489557
Sonic.
Multiple times Sonic, actually.

[Anonymous No.10492306]

>>10488415
Spider-Man on GBC is a decent title, but quite a pain too, due to it being a MetroidVania where exploring feels more like a hassle than anything else, especially due to flying enemies being the worst, and the sewer area, which is the main of the whole adventure, being a chore to navigate overall, and the leveling mechanics not being all that polished... Spider-Man 2: The Sinister Six on GBC essentially fixes EVERYTHING. It keeps the good graphics and OST, but follows a traditional level to level structure that works well enough, while have levels that are 10x better than before.

I have a hard time recalling other situations that the sequel MOGS the original THIS MUCH too...

[Anonymous No.10492328]

>>10491647
>It's really not. It's an irritating slow trudge of a game

It took me a log time to admit this because the game is so aesthetically pleasing and I want to like it, but yeah. It's got no flow to it, just pits and spikes and lots of stops and starts. Still looks amazing on my psp though

[Cancel— you are only cancelling a man. No.10492369]

xcom and xcom enemy unknown

[Cancel— you are only cancelling a man. No.10492370]

>>10489886
sovl
SOVL
SSSOOOOOOOVVLLLL

[Anonymous No.10492648]

>>10488415
if by leap in quality
you meant straight down a cliff
I'll agree with you

[Anonymous No.10494065]

Breath of Fire 4 to Dragon Quarter.

[Anonymous No.10494083]

>>10491789
>Second highest rated game of all time is a downgrade

[Anonymous No.10494112]

>>10488547
Fallout 2 is a great sequel but it's not much of a leap from the original. Mostly it's just a much bigger game. Probably the single largest improvement is how companions are handled. They were an immense chore to deal with in the first game (for example, in order to trade items with them, you had to pickpocket them).

Morrowind was a huge departure from Daggerfall for sure, and a massive improvement in my eyes. There's still had to be fun with Daggerfall but the dungeons...my fucking god, the DUNGEONS!

[Anonymous No.10494129]

SSX to SSX Tricky ig if you preferred the more arcadey feel

Both were good though

[Anonymous No.10494157]

>>10488547
Pretty sure this guy meant Fallout 2 > Fallout 3

[Anonymous No.10494978]

>>10492306
Adding to this, when Vicarious Visions, who made Spider-Man on GBC, came back to do the sequel to Torus Games' Spider-Man 2: The Sinister Six, on GBA, instead of just doing what Torus Games did, but on stronger hardware, they essentially went for a mix between both titles, taking what worked in BOTH of them and polishing some of the concepts they attempted in the original, so it was actually GOOD this time... it worked! It's no longer a FULL MetroidVania, there's a level map, so there's not a single order, and you can unlock new skills to explore earlier levels to get stuff...

It's a MetroidVania, like the OG, but with levels, like its sequel, Mysterio's Menace is just superb.

[Anonymous No.10496469]

>>10489939
>Warcraft 3 isn't even better than Warcraft 2
Bait

[Anonymous No.10496607]

>>10488415
If we're talking graphically I would MGS1 to MGS2 has to be in the running

>4x higher resolution with 2x the framerate

[Anonymous No.10496625]

Romancing SaGa -> Romancing SaGa 2

[Anonymous No.10496750]

>>10488573
I think he was using that as an arrow rather than a greater than sign.

[Anonymous No.10496756]

I think Mother 1 into Mother 2 / EarthBound is a good contender even if I do like Mother 1's story more.

[Anonymous No.10496773]

Tony Hawk's Pro Skater to THPS2, then THPS2 into THPS3.

[Anonymous No.10496787]

>>10488547
>for the first few hours I wasn't sure if I was just dreaming the experience
Unironically this. Words can't adequately described the experience. I enjoyed SM64, having my first play session at a console set up in a local Blockbuster to hype the release, but it wasn't my first "polygon game", I'd been a fan of 3D since the late 80s. But GTA3 was something else entirely. It was a world and an experience far beyond anything yet conceived.

This is going to be one of those dumb, cringey kid stories, but that first time playing GTA3 for hours upon hours well into the night, I finally got up to get in my car and go get something to eat, and for a moment, JUST a moment mind you, I was hit with this wave of disassociation and the strong urge to just drive like a reckless maniac completely heedless of any laws or danger iRL. I know that sounds like a retarded exaggeration for effect but for a few seconds it really did shoot my pulse up into the hundreds, just a sudden realization of "oh FUCK I actually have to be careful and remember how to drive for real".

[Anonymous No.10496803]

If you were to show your grandma Street Fighter and Street Fighter 2 side by side she'd say they're the exact same game, but one is an unplayable museum curiosity and the other singlehandedly defined a genre-turned-industry-turned-way of life.

[Anonymous No.10498852]

>>10488415
I miss how big leaps were sort of standard back then, I mean, going from the 3rd generation into the 4th, and then 3D with the 5th, and some good looking 3D in the 6th, then HD in the 7th... and after that it sort of reached a plateau, I'm rarely truly impressed by a new video game in the graphics side of things... while back then I'd be stunned a lot more often. What a shame...