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/vr/ - Retro Games

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File: 220 KB, 273x364, Doom_II_-_Hell_on_Earth_Coverart.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10471406 No.10471406 [Reply] [Original]

Thought on Doom 2? I mean the vanilla game only.

The levels are a huge step down from the first game. On top of that, it's not broken down into episodes like the first game which makes replaying your favourite maps a chore. Not that there's many maps you would want to replay in Doom 2. They're almost all shit. Maps like Downtown....holy dogshit.

>> No.10471436

>>10471406
Doom 1 and Doom 2 are shit, only Dopm 3 is good. Catacomb 3-D is the superior series

>> No.10471442

I liked downloading wads better. The levels were ok but forgettable. What made the games immortal was the community

>> No.10473441

I like downtown and pretty much all of the maps. In 1994/5, Doom 2 was very comfy and I played it all the time.

>> No.10473615 [DELETED] 

>>10471406
Not only is the level design poor, the enemy placement is for retards.
>AHA! Heckin trap door! *20 hitscan enemies all crowded up 2 feet in front of you*

>> No.10473616

>>10471406
Doom 2 is great. People say the levels suck, but I liked them. Cool thing about Doom 2, no episodes, just 30 maps in one long campaign. Yeah, you do have the base maps, the city maps, and so on, there is a form of themic story telling or whatever, but the maps were cool. Doom 1 has good maps too, but it didn't feel as substantial to me with its episodes and all that. Like the Doom 2 music, extra enemies and extra gun better.

>> No.10473675

>>10471406
Doom II is awesome but I suck at it way too much. People who shit on the maps just don't want to admit that they are just outright bad at the game itself. It's not a crime to play below UV...

>> No.10473756

Love doom 2

>> No.10473867

cash grab non-sequel; you cant add a shotgun skin and two new enemies and put "2" in the title

>> No.10473887

>>10473675
I think the problem with the maps is that they're artificially hard.
>take teleporter
>transported into pitch black area surrounded by pinkies
>die because you had the wrong gun out
It becomes a game of memorization rather than anything actually fun. Sandy's levels blow ass.

>> No.10473909

>>10471406
Best in the series. End of discussion

>> No.10473934

Sandy should offer a public apology for the disaster that is The Chasm.

>> No.10473995

>>10471406
Even if the levels are worse, the greater enemy variety and the double shotgun make it better than DOOM 1.

>> No.10474996

I like Doom's levels better than Doom 2s.
Still haven't beaten Doom 2. Still going through it.
WAD makers need to combine the level design of knee deep in the undead with doom 2's monsters.

>> No.10475008

>>10471406
I like it. Some of the levels are way more annoying to do UV pistol start no save runs on, but it's still at least doable without devoting your life to playing Doom. Final Doom on the other hand is unfiltered dog shit.

>> No.10475016

>>10473934
It's an interesting level. People only meme hate it because of speedrunners bitching about it on youtube.

>> No.10476597

>>10473867
overwatch 2
splatoon 2
dota 2
counter strike 2

>> No.10476738

>>10471406
Everything feels great until I reach Dead SImple, then the maps start to get too wonky for me. I keep trying to beat it on Ultra Violence but it always filters me, I think I'll give it another shot once I'm finished Quake. Any tips on gitting gud?

>> No.10476767
File: 34 KB, 320x240, Plutonia_title.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10476767

Plutonia is the real doom 2 for me. The fact that it uses doom 1's music is a bonus.

>> No.10477003

>>10473934
The Chasm is a good level.

>> No.10477020

>>10476767
Garbage: The Game

>> No.10477049

>>10477020
Stop being bad at videogames.

>> No.10477116
File: 35 KB, 740x427, ssgface.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10477116

>>10473441
Downtown and Factory are pretty much the only maps I just don't like in Doom 2. Even Nirvana isn't that bad, it's quick. A lot of people say that Doom 1 had better levels overall, and I kind of agree, but Doom 2 has some SERIOUSLY fucking good levels to it as well.
I love The Crusher, Tricks & Traps, Refueling Base, Circle Of Death, Barrels O' Fun, The Citadel, Chasm, The Spirit World, The Living End, and more of these.

>>10473616
I think it would have balanced better for continuous play if it was split up into three episodes where the player got stripped of their stuff a couple of times so they could reset the building challenge slightly a few times.

>>10473867
The Super Shotgun handles and performs very differently from the Shotgun, they fulfill different roles.
Doom 2 also adds 10 new monsters (11 if you count Commander Keen, but he's more of prop), doubling the size of the original bestiary, and many of the new additions are more complex and interesting than the original ones, while others fill in functional gaps from the first one.
Shit, the SS (and Keen) are just added in for an Easter Egg for the secret maps, they threw that shit in for the hell of it.

All in all, the monsters in the expanded bestiary complement each other extremely well (with the new weapon helping bridge some of the gaps on the player side), in fact, more so than iD Software themselves could quite grasp, with sets like Plutonia going nuts with what these guys could all actually do, barely scratching the surface.
Doom 2's upgraded gameplay mechanics over Doom 1 is probably the greatest reason why the community is is still so damn lively 29 years and 11 months later. Doom 1 could maybe have kept on trucking as is, but it would not have been nearly as prolific, there's some very good reasons as to why making content for the first game took a big backseat to the sequel.

>> No.10477147

>>10477116
>Barrels O' Fun
Fuck this level straight to hell for UV pistol start no save runs. I mean I did it (once) but it was one of the hardest of vanilla Doom, and for all of the wrong reasons.

>> No.10477150

>>10473675
There's a lot of helpful tricks and tactics, you know.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJcf0aOwmiA

>>10475008
TNT is a very flawed and cracked gem, give Plutonia a try instead.
You don't need to play it on UV if that's too tough for you, Plutonia had very deliberate difficulty level support and it's still good on HMP and HNTR.

>>10477147
It's actually obnoxious as fuck to pistol start, you're right about that, but I enjoy it a lot on continuous.

>> No.10477208

>>10476738
>gitting gud
See the video linked in >>10477150
For me, it's The Factory where Doom 2 comes to a screeching halt, because it's the boringest level, but there's lots of good after, MAP29 is genuinely one of the bestest iD Software levels.
Anyway, things like that, and the size of Doom 2 is why I think that its overall pacing would have benefited from episodic division like the first game.

>> No.10477224

>>10471406
I can guarantee you that nobody playing doom back in the day was like "wow these levels are so well designed!", they were too preoccupied was "haah gun go brrr"

>> No.10477230

>>10473867
Have you ever played the JP version of SMB2?

>> No.10477232

>>10477150
>>10477208
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJcf0aOwmiA
That's actually really cool

>> No.10477242

I haven't beaten Doom 2 and I can't quite remember where I got to. I do remember a level where the walls keep coming down revealing TONS of enemies and it's nuts.
I liked it. I mean I think it bounced between "this is complete bullshit" and "holy shit that was insane". I love those types of sequels made by devs who were good at their own game and wanted a challenging sequel for themselves. Ones that start with levels from the end of the first game difficulty-wise. So I think it's great.

>> No.10477302

>>10477116
A lot of Doom 2 levels are a slog, but as you've said the added monsters and super shotgun were great additions. This means that every amazing level pack on the planet owes Doom 2 a lot, even if some of the levels aren't as good overall as Doom.

>> No.10477334

>>10477224
Maybe in people with no higher brain function, but it doesn't take all that much analysis or examining of a situation (which you would need to do on the fly all the time as to actually progress) to identify the exciting action and challenge.

>> No.10477351
File: 1.50 MB, 1857x1484, plutonia origins.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10477351

>>10477242
That sounds like maybe it would be one of the secret maps in either of the Final Doom expansions, Doom 2 doesn't go that wild with the monster count in any one place in any of its levels. Also the part about the levels being made extra hard.

>> No.10477369

>>10477351
I looked it up, it's called Dead Simple. That was the last level I fully remember.

>> No.10477376

not bait, i thought the level design was a huge let down after the first game. something about it didnt feel as cohesively put together and rather directionless.

>> No.10477501

>>10475016
It’s a bitch to play, even ignoring the Speedspergers.

>> No.10478046

>>10471406
Honestly, I'm finally willing to say that my love of Doom 1 & 2 is mostly based on nostalgia and how great it feels to shotgun demons over and over again. The one thing I'll say about the levels in both is that they do continuously surprise you with how weird they are. They don't strike me as great video game level design. They just strike me as interesting novelties worth exploring.

>> No.10478063

Doom 2's level design is so fucking shit that I think it warped my view of the new enemy types. I probably wouldn't have hated them if the levels weren't garbage.
Sandy is a hack and a retard.

>> No.10478071
File: 172 KB, 736x1008, sandy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10478071

ITT: people who got SANDY'D

>> No.10479447

my favorite levels are the meme levels like Chasm, Gotcha, Barrels o' Fun

>> No.10479910

thoughts on Heretic and Hexen? are they worth a playthrough? i like the idea of medieval-fantasy doom

>> No.10479918

>>10479910
No, both suck. For different reasons.

>> No.10479932

>>10479918
can you give me the QRD?

>> No.10479941

>>10479932
Heretic: tank enemies, weapons feel powerless, map design is mid

Hexen: a fucking nightmare, the worst mazes you will ever play, a lever will activate something in another level, it's unplayable without a guide, cool aesthetics tho

>> No.10480746

>>10471406
Playing through it for the first time right now. 1 is way better. Much more cohesive experience with the episode format and map on the intermission screen. Actually feels like I'm progressing through a story. 2 just feels like a bunch of maps thrown together for no reason. Not to mention none of the maps are visually appealing. Aren't we supposed to be on earth? Looks nothing like it. 1 felt like I was actually running through futuristic military bases. The new enemies are cool though and it has some good music.

>> No.10480748

Nice super shotty, nice new enemies, but the city maps, good God the shitty maps!

>> No.10480751

Why does the level design in all these classic shooters peak in the first game and first episode? Quake, Doom, Duke etc are all entirely frontloaded.

>> No.10480756

one thing I really miss from Doom 1 was the map between levels, when it's telling you your %'s and time. I don't think it would have significantly improved Doom 2, but when the whole game doesn't feel right, your brain starts looking for other flaws.

>> No.10480764

>>10479910
Heretic is fantastic. Basically fantasy Doom with a primitive inventory system. Anon is right that the enemies are really tanky. Hexen is good too, but each level is astronomically huge, and like the anon said there's a lot of "Flip switch in lava place, go to new area in swamp place." There's probably some .wads that are a bit more linear, the game becomes a slog after a while.

>>10480756
isn't that most games though? Heretic and Hexen gradually wear the player down the longer they go on, Wolf3D is the same way. Even later FPS suffer the same problem. Halo CE basically copy pasting half the levels but in reverse (and with flood), Half Life slowly becomes more and more of a drag as the military shows up, and then there's Xen.

>> No.10480791

>>10471406
Doom II has the sick Alice in Chains riffs going for it at least

>> No.10481241

>>10474996
This. I really like Doom 1's maps over 2's, but the extra enemies and super shotgun add just enough variety to allow for making great custom wads. The custom wads that go for a "Doom 1 thing" are my bread and butter though they tend to get passed over by the average custom wad enjoyer.

>> No.10481479

Only good for the SSG and new enemies.
The levels suck and the color pallete is ass. There's so much use of wood textures that it completely abandons the tech/hell aesthetic of the first game. This must have been the start of ID's love of making everything brown that continued with Quake.

>> No.10481498

>>10480751
The first episodes were shareware that was used to sell the full games so they intentionally used them to showcase the best levels

>> No.10482185

How can people say Doom 2 maps are worse when you have stuff like E3M4? Doom 2 is hit an miss in level design, true, but overall it's more ambitious, has more open areas, more cool set-pieces. Many Doom 1 maps are just Wolf 3D style mazy corridors.

>> No.10482450

>>10474996
knee deep in the dead is so much better than any other segment of any other iD game

>> No.10483197

>>10480791
Which track from DOOM II is it? I wanna see if I can hear it

>> No.10483262

>>10483197
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z81virrz6TY Them Bones
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGYzbl6lewk Angry Chair

>> No.10483270
File: 42 KB, 400x400, 1000062532.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10483270

>>10471436
>Catacomb 3-D is the superior series
See image

>> No.10483309

>>10483262
That's gnarly

>> No.10483328

The only good level designer Doom ever had was John Romero

>> No.10483368

>>10483328
Hey John

>> No.10483379

what's your rule on saving?

>> No.10483408

>>10483379
you cannot save if you run out of disk space.