/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.10280324]

>Playstation
>Shitty Z bufferless graphics, everything is warpping and clipping and looks like shit

>N64
>Shitty anti aliasing and textures, everything looks like shit

>Sega Saturn
>Can't do transparencies for shit and 4 sided polygons clip everywhere, everything looks like shit

Were these machines designed by monkeys? How come they all fucked something up?

[Anonymous No.10280327]

>>10280324
Dreamcast was the first good 3D console

[Anonymous No.10280335]

When you take into consideration that respectable 3D graphics in a home console was a fucking fantasy until 1994 AND they were all racing against time to present it before the decade was over, they were impressive.
Hell, home computers had jack shit in that regard until around 1996.

[Anonymous No.10280350]

the 5th gen should've remained 2D and the 7th gen should've remained SD. now both gens aged like shit.

[Anonymous No.10280352]

I dunno man I like 5th gen graphics a lot.

[Anonymous No.10280356]

>>10280324
At least some of those things can be mitigated through emulation these days, so that's something, I guess.

[Anonymous No.10280363]

>>10280324
I like the chunky look of gen 5, but 3D was new at the time. Including it in home consoles as the reasonable intro into gaming was probably tough.

[Anonymous No.10280505]

>>10280324
>>Playstation
>>Shitty Z bufferless graphics, everything is warpping and clipping and looks like shit
>>N64
>>Shitty anti aliasing and textures, everything looks like shit
>>Sega Saturn
>>Can't do transparencies for shit and 4 sided polygons clip everywhere, everything looks like shit

All those "issues" blend perfectly on a CRT display.

>muh graphics muh graphics
Also, stop thinking like a zoomer
Graphics don't turn a bad game into a good game

[Anonymous No.10280593]

>>10280327
>textures that aren't at the center of the screen look like shit because no anisotropic filter
we were SO close

[Anonymous No.10280625]

>>10280505
Your astoundingly incorrect information is enough to suspect you're a zoomer, but your subsequent accusation of zoomerdom is definitive proof. CRT's didn't magically mask the wobble on PS1 games lol, it's an iconic quirk of the hardware that was recognised even back in the day. The N64's anti-aliasing is arguably overkill, ironically, because of CRT's. Mesh transparencies on Saturn are still limited even when playing through composite on a CRT since it only gives you 50% opacity without additive blending; forget about fades, gradient masks, or convincing particle effects.

[Anonymous No.10280663]

>>10280625
ok zoomie

[Anonymous No.10280670]

>>10280324
Imagine you're the project manager in charge of making a 5th gen console at Nintendo, Sony, or Sega.
Explain how you'd make a better console than they made, using resources and tech they didn't have.
Aaaand....go!

Hard mode: Don't make it obvious you're under 20 y/o

[Anonymous No.10280671]

peak 3D gaming was the early 7th gen after 3D games were low poly and clunky and before COD FPS slop

[Anonymous No.10280676]

>>10280670
just make a 2D console and postpone 3D until the 6h gen at least

[Anonymous No.10280678]

>>10280324
>OP
>Is gay

[Anonymous No.10280682]

>>10280324
you can turn off the AA with a gameshark
doesn't fix the small texture bus though

[Anonymous No.10280703]

>days /vr/ has gone without malding incomprehensively over the 5th gen: 0

[Anonymous No.10280709]

>>10280324
oof

[Anonymous No.10280817]

>>10280709
>fishnet dress as the devs intended
Sega wins again

[Anonymous No.10280824]

>>10280324
PS1 graphics look amazing. Some PS1 games still hold up today.

[Anonymous No.10280832]

>>10280324
N64 looked the best dont group it together with the shitty ps1 and sharturn

[Anonymous No.10280840]

>>10280324
I forget, were there any high-profile games that were released simultaneously on all three consoles? I can think of many that were released on PS1 and Saturn, as well as PS1 and N64, but none that were on all three (or just on Saturn and N64 for that matter).

[Anonymous No.10280841]

3D wasn't perfected until 8th gen

[Anonymous No.10280859]

>>10280324
3d was barely reachable during that time, Sony just made it as shit as possible to produce barely playable fps. And it worked so rivals had to adapt. It would be best if it was a transitional to 3d gen

[Anonymous No.10280904]

Extremely retarded thread

[Anonymous No.10280908]

>Shitty low quality OP asking dumb questions

Was this post made by a monkey?

[Anonymous No.10280963]

>>10280324
They were the first 3d consoles anon, of course they'd have a bunch of compromises and quirks. Atari games look like absolute dogshit compared to the NES.

[Anonymous No.10280973]

>>10280676
But then the devs wouldnt have experience making 3d games and everything would be janky as fuck.

[Anonymous No.10280989]

>>10280973
they wouldn't have to deal with 2D hardware LARPing as 3D and we would've gotten more 2D kino in the 5th gen.

[Anonymous No.10280990]

>Shitpost thread hijaked by Zeldurtards gets babysat
>This one's left untouched
Sasuga...

[Anonymous No.10281012]

>>10280989
eh,id rather have amazing games like silent hill,MGS,parasite eve and FF8.
and the PS1 quirks give them a nice aesthetic anyway.

[Anonymous No.10281047]

>>10280973
3d was a thing on arcades, also it was used without hardware acceleration. It was a thing but for high end devices. It would be the best to make some hybrid hardware with limited 3d capabilities like ds

[Anonymous No.10281052]

>>10281012
Yeah sub15 fps is so nice quirk

[Anonymous No.10281065]

>numeric generation nonsense
kys

[Anonymous No.10281067]

>>10281052
the games i mentioned played fine to me.
slowdowns and sub-30 fps has been a thing on pretty much all console depending on the game.

[Anonymous No.10281136]

this generation is a total failure.

Sony
Ken Kutaragi to recover the Play Station project. since 1985 he wanted to do 3D while most publishers didn't believe in it before 2004... Sony didn't believe in the Playstation, so Kutaragi didn't really have the support of the parent company, it was the music branch of Sony (real owner of the CD format) which provided 2 guys with a 20 m2 premises.
>if the parent company had believed in the Playstation it would have ended up better.

Sega
They developed the console in their own corner, without requesting a third-party publisher. initially only 2D, they would have started 3D because they heard about Ken Kutaragi and his Playstation. they refused a partnership with Silicon Graphic... therefore a second processor making it complicated to program.
>they could have done better, but Sega will always be Sega.

Nintendo.
following the failure of Plays Station, there were no longer any CD player suppliers. They looked for a while (Philips) without finding as efficient as Sony. so back to cartridges. the partnership with Silicon Graphic had to become obvious to compensate for the cartridge support.
> If Nintendo had found a good CD player or switched to the ZiP format it would have gone better.

[Anonymous No.10281148]

>>10280625
No one cared.

[Anonymous No.10281150]

>>10280989
This doesnt make any sense.
5th gen didnt bring anything new (gameplay wise) to the 2D table. The 2D games that did get released on PSX/Saturn also played the same as the 16bit games.

3D was the correct choice, time for something new

[Anonymous No.10281175]

>>10281150
>3D was the correct choice, time for something new
it wasn't. it was releasing a new technology too early when the hardware wasn't there yet and devs still didn't know how to utilize it properly. it would be the equivalent or making games in 16K resolution in 2023.

>5th gen didnt bring anything new (gameplay wise) to the 2D table
because any game that was 2D was mocked and ridiculed because everyone wanted 3D slop. it's why 2D essentially died on home consoles after 1997 and we only got 2D games on handheld or from indies after that.

[Anonymous No.10281181]

>>10280505
>Also, stop thinking like a zoomer
>Graphics don't turn a bad game into a good game

Zoomerbrained take. Absolutely everybody cared about graphics back in the 90s. This whole notion of gameplay being the only thing that matters didn't gain any kind of traction outside of fringe weirdos until the mid-2000s.

[Anonymous No.10281217]

>>10281175
>because any game that was 2D was mocked and ridiculed because everyone wanted 3D slop.
this really doesnt answer the argument,how would 2D games being mocked prevent devs from trying something new before releasing them.

[Anonymous No.10281239]

>>10281217
2D did improve during the early 5th gen. the graphics looked much nicer (SOTN vs any 16 bit games) and to this day I don't think 2D graphics can get any better than SOTN so the 5th gen basically perfected 2D graphics. 2D games also improved mechanically and a bigger storage medium allowed bigger 2D games compared to the 4th gen (hundreds of times bigger).

[Anonymous No.10281286]

>>10280350
>7th gen should've remained SD.
Wii being the winner of 7th gen confirmed

>>10281239
Yes, games like SotN, X4 and Alundra look very nice indeed
But none of them did anything new to gaming, just the same 16bit games in a (slightly) shinier package.

[Anonymous No.10281292]

>>10281286
>Wii being the winner of 7th gen confirmed
no it was just a glorified gamecube. I mean having PS3/360 specs but pushing 480p or 540p resolutions instead of HD.

>But none of them did anything new to gaming, just the same 16bit games in a (slightly) shinier package.
but it's better to do something new when the time is right. gaming would've been much better off if 3D started with the 6th gen.

[Anonymous No.10281302]

>>10281292
>no it was just a glorified gamecube. I mean having PS3/360 specs but pushing 480p or 540p resolutions instead of HD
It would have been cool to have another generation of Japanese games where every major publisher/developer didn't shit themselves trying to develop games in the same way but with exponentially greater costs. I guess it would have just been postponing the inevitable though.

>but it's better to do something new when the time is right. gaming would've been much better off if 3D started with the 6th gen.
Nah, the 5th gen was great. I loved all the bizarre and experimental games that arose out of developers trying to figure out exactly what the hell a 3D game should be like. It was cool as hell that you never knew what the next big game was going to control or play like.

[Anonymous No.10281309]

>>10281292
>but it's better to do something new when the time is right. gaming would've been much better off if 3D started with the 6th gen.
The problem here is that you are now denying 3d games until the dreamcast showed up.
So people are not supposed to play Gran Turismo, MSG, Mario64, etc untill the year 2000?

[Anonymous No.10281327]

>>10281309
>So people are not supposed to play Gran Turismo, MSG, Mario64, etc until the year 2000?
think about how much better and more refined those games would be if they were made in 2000-2001. the graphics and controls would've been much better and they games would've been bigger. they would've been better because 3D was much more refined in 2000-2001 and the hardware was powerfful enough to allow proper 3D games to exist.

[Anonymous No.10281335]

>>10281175
>it was releasing a new technology too early
Ah yes, it's clear to me now. All those fond childhood memories were false after all. What an asinine statement.

[Anonymous No.10281336]

>>10281327
>the graphics and controls would've been much better and they games would've been bigger.
Explain how the controls would improve when the entire previous generation was spent focusing solely on 2D games. Also the graphics could have been better? Are you fucking retarded? You want to hold back an entire generation of groundbreaking games because you wanted them to push more polygons?

[Anonymous No.10281341]

>>10281327
>the graphics and controls would've been much better and they games would've been bigger
You realize things like controls only improved because they had previous attempts to iterate and build off of right?

[Anonymous No.10281345]

>>10281341
No no, you don't understand. The concept of progress is nebulous and the fruits of which only mystically appear from the ether.

[Anonymous No.10281349]

ctrl-f "slop"

[Anonymous No.10281367]

>>10281336
because the PS and the Saturn were 2D consoles trying to replicate a 3D environment. their hardware wasn't able to render 3D properly and had severe limitations. look at squareosoft games on PS1. most of them involve a 3D model walking around a prerendered background. I think the only proper 3D game square made on PS1 was Vagrant Story, and even that had problems with the hardware limitations (no story characters appearing outside of cutscenes and as bosses).

had they started with the 6th gen, the hardware would've been built with 3D in mind and developers wouldn't have to go through loopholes and deal with limitations to implement 3D properly, 3D controls and mechanics would've been better refined, and in hindsight the 3D games wouldn't have aged like shit. considering that the 2D 5th gen games mop the floor with the 3D ones and aged better it's safe to say starting 3D early was a big mistake, all because the industry and consoomers wanted le shiny better graphics and MOAR bits.

[Anonymous No.10281376]

>>10281292
>but it's better to do something new when the time is right. gaming would've been much better off if 3D started with the 6th gen.
if everyone thought like you no one would have done anything.
>dont start writing until we invent printers or mechanical pens
>dont make music until we have digital recordings and DAW or the radio
>dont make tv shows until we have color TV
>dont make trains until we can make high-speed one
how exactly do you think things get better ?

[Anonymous No.10281385]

>>10281367
>because the PS and the Saturn were 2D consoles trying to replicate a 3D environment.
The PlayStation had dedicated graphics hardware that specifically handled aspects of 3D rendering, as well as the floating point operations necessary for trigonometry calculations in 3D space. There are countless games that handled player traversal through three dimensions that were also available on PC with superior hardware and played identically.

>developers wouldn't have to go through loopholes and deal with limitations to implement 3D properly
"loopholes and limitations" are an unavoidable aspect of developing on consumer hardware, and your concept of "proper 3D" remains some undefined ideal you have in your mind whose definition likely aligns to *Your Favorite Console*.

Your posts are nonsense and you continue to handwave years of practice, iteration, and success, for some impossible fantasy of the perfect game console.

[Anonymous No.10281390]

>>10281376
I was thinking something similar. Kraftwerk should have never attempted electronic music since Fruity Loops wasn't due for release for nearly thirty years after.

[Anonymous No.10281391]

>>10281341
>You realize things like controls only improved because they had previous attempts to iterate and build off of right?
and also because the hardware allowed them to. better hardware allowed more opportunities with 3D and with less limitations.

my prediction if 3D started with gen 6 would be that the controls and some of the mechanics would be a bit clunkier, but the graphics and limitations would've been on par with the actual 6th gen we've gotten.

[Anonymous No.10281398]

>>10281391
>and also because the hardware allowed them to.
Please, do enlighten us SPECIFICALLY how controls would be improved with PS2-tier hardware over PS1. Go into detail.

[Anonymous No.10281402]

>>10281391
>my prediction if 3D started with gen 6 would be that the controls and some of the mechanics would be a bit clunkier, but the graphics and limitations would've been on par with the actual 6th gen we've gotten.
So what you're suggesting is that we hold back an entire generation, so that the next generation... ends up exactly the same as it was in the first place. You ARE retarded.

[Anonymous No.10281406]

>>10281391
>my prediction if 3D started with gen 6 would be that the controls and some of the mechanics would be a bit clunkier
But you just said that better hardware would result in the controls being superior. Which is it?

[Anonymous No.10281409]

>>10281391
>my prediction if 3D started with gen 6 would be that the controls and some of the mechanics would be a bit clunkier, but the graphics and limitations would've been on par with the actual 6th gen we've gotten.

Why on earth would this be a good thing? Developers lose out on an entire half a decade of development and innovation and practice in working with 3D. Learning how to more efficiently model and create and populate 3D worlds. Learning things about new and emerging genres and the sort of things players love and hate, how to pace their games, how to direct cutscenes with a completely free camera.

Giving up all that for some weird notion that the 5th generation was bad because those games look a bit fugly now is just the most myopic idea imaginable. It was a time of incredible growth and experimentation that left the entire medium richer as a whole not only for the products that were created but for the new ideas created under those conditions.

And besides that this weird pipe dream never would have happened anyway. Developers were always eager to explore any new technology that became available to them. The notion that with the potential to create fully 3D worlds out there any major dev would have been happy sitting on their hands and making the exact same games they had been for another few years is insane. If Sony, Nintendo and Sega didn't make a push for 3D then someone else would have.

[Anonymous No.10281424]

>>10281367
Already a lot of replies on this one, but what you describe would are the PC/Dreamcast ports of 5th gen games. Same game but in 480p. Gameplay would have been identical, just in a shinier package.

[Anonymous No.10281441]

>>10281398
well for one, 6th gen controllers had 2 analog sticks, while 5th gen controllers had 1 analog stick (PS1's right analog stick was barely used), and lets not forget very early 5th gen games that required a D-Pad for 3D, or the 1997 PS1 games where some games were Dual Analog compatible (like Crash 2) and some weren't. this allowed the player to have a free camera (like what PC games like arena shooters had in the mid-late 90s).

>>10281402
>>10281406

it would be less polished than the actual 6th gen but still much better than the 5th gen, and by the late 6th-early 7th most of the "early 3D" flaws would be ironed out, the 7th gen would remain SD, and HD/FHD gaming would start with the 8th gen

[Anonymous No.10281447]

>>10280324
>How come they all fucked something up?
You couldn't have a PERFECT console. Different companies, different business plans, different design philosophies.

[Anonymous No.10281448]

>>10281424
>Already a lot of replies on this one, but what you describe would are the PC/Dreamcast ports of 5th gen games. Same game but in 480p. Gameplay would have been identical, just in a shinier package.

fair point. I wouldn't mind 3D gaming starting out with games like Sonic Adventure or Vigilante 8 2nd Offense.

[Anonymous No.10281450]

>>10281441
>6th gen controllers had 2 analog sticks
Only because of the lessons learned from 5th gen.
If 5th gen was 'skipped' you'd get the same initial controller issues in 6th gen

[Anonymous No.10281454]

>>10281441
>well for one, 6th gen controllers had 2 analog sticks, while 5th gen controllers had 1 analog stick (PS1's right analog stick was barely used), and lets not forget very early 5th gen games that required a D-Pad for 3D
This design choice was fixed mid-generation with the Dual Analog controller (and later the Dual Shock), again, a realisation as a result of practice and understanding of 3D development. Better hardware was not necessary for this.

>it would be less polished than the actual 6th gen but still much better than the 5th gen, and by the late 6th-early 7th most of the "early 3D" flaws would be ironed out, the 7th gen would remain SD, and HD/FHD gaming would start with the 8th gen
You're suggesting to delay an entire generation for a minor improvement is baffling, and >>10281409 pointed out succinctly:
>Developers were always eager to explore any new technology that became available to them. The notion that with the potential to create fully 3D worlds out there any major dev would have been happy sitting on their hands and making the exact same games they had been for another few years is insane. If Sony, Nintendo and Sega didn't make a push for 3D then someone else would have.
Developers were exploring 3D environments on the NES of all fucking platforms, not to mention the SNES and Genesis. Your argument makes literally no sense beyond "the graphics could have been better!"

[Anonymous No.10281474]

>>10281448
>fair point. I wouldn't mind 3D gaming starting out with games like Sonic Adventure or Vigilante 8 2nd Offense.

But they wouldn't start with that, you'd get Ridge Racer and Mario 64 but in 480p and more polygons.

[Anonymous No.10281482]

>>10281292
>but it's better to do something new when the time is right. gaming would've been much better off if 3D started with the 6th gen.

Does the same also apply to 2D?
I.e. everything before the Genesis/Snes should have been skipped since 2D barely worked on older machines.

[Anonymous No.10281483]

>>10281454
>Developers were exploring 3D environments on the NES of all fucking platforms, not to mention the SNES and Genesis.
yes, but on those platforms 99% of the games were 2D and the experimentation of 3D was left for a few games like outrun and Star Fox. so they were cool experiments but the consoles were still 2D consoles with great classic 2D games.

the 5th gen should've gone the same route, have 70-80% of your games be 2D kino people will look back at fondly, and have some games trying to experiment with interesting 3D concepts and mechanics that would later be refined and improved and turned into something bigger in the 6th gen. Imagine if the entire 5th gen had amazing 2D games like SOTN or Alundra. Instead the 5th gen told 2D gaming to fuck off and die after around 97, and that was the end of 2D gaming on home consoles.

[Anonymous No.10281489]

>>10281482
>Does the same also apply to 2D?
considering how nobody gives a fuck about the 1st and 2nd gens, yes.

[Anonymous No.10281490]

Someone needs to tear 4th gen right up and force all of Gen Z to watch.

[Anonymous No.10281498]

>>10281483
>but the consoles were still 2D consoles with great classic 2D games.
and the PS1/N64 are 3D consoles with great classic 3D games.

[Anonymous No.10281506]

>>10281483
>yes, but on those platforms 99% of the games were 2D and the experimentation of 3D was left for a few games like outrun and Star Fox. so they were cool experiments but the consoles were still 2D consoles with great classic 2D games.
You misunderstand entirely. The reality is the capability was there, so developers exploited it. You can kick and scream all you want about PS1 being a "2D console" but the reality is that it was possible to develop 3D games - which were in high demand at the time - so the developers did so. Just say outright that you wish more 2D titles were developed at the time and stop pretending it's for the betterment of the industry as a whole to force stagnation.

[Anonymous No.10281512]

>>10281409
>Why on earth would this be a good thing? Developers lose out on an entire half a decade of development and innovation and practice in working with 3D. Learning how to more efficiently model and create and populate 3D worlds.

because developers were trying to do it on hardware barely capable of proper 3D and were trying to fully replace 2D gaming with it.

>Giving up all that for some weird notion that the 5th generation was bad because those games look a bit fugly now is just the most myopic idea imaginable. It was a time of incredible growth and experimentation that left the entire medium richer as a whole not only for the products that were created but for the new ideas created under those conditions.
fair enough

>Developers were always eager to explore any new technology that became available to them. The notion that with the potential to create fully 3D worlds out there any major dev would have been happy sitting on their hands and making the exact same games they had been for another few years is insane.
they could've done both. refine an already existing formula and try making some cool 3D games on the same. instead the 5th gen just tried to force everything into 3D, including franchises that don't work well in 3D environments (Castlevania)

>>10281376
a better comparison would be trying to open up a pizza restaurant when you barely know how to make pizza.

[Anonymous No.10281515]

>>10280352
I also like 5th gen graphics but not whatever you just posed.

[Anonymous No.10281518]

>>10281515
I like both.

[Anonymous No.10281529]

>>10281512
>a better comparison would be trying to open up a pizza restaurant when you barely know how to make pizza.
No, what you're suggesting is that pizza shouldn't have been made until the 21st century using modern technology.

>because developers were trying to do it on hardware barely capable of proper 3D and were trying to fully replace 2D gaming with it.
What exactly does your imagined future look like where Final Fantasy VII, Ocarina of Time, Super Mario 64, and Gran Turismo no longer exist?

[Anonymous No.10281547]

>>10281529
>What exactly does your imagined future look like where Final Fantasy VII, Ocarina of Time, Super Mario 64, and Gran Turismo no longer exist?
not "no longer exist", but existed in 2000-2002. the games would've been better off. better graphics, 2nd analog stick for camera, running at proper 30 or 60fps and not 10fps, same or bigger levels/worlds, M64 would've been fully 3D without using sprites and FFVII probably could be 1 disc

it its place for 1995-1999 we could've gotten 2D kino, like link to the past 2, SMW2, another 2D FF, and much more.

[Anonymous No.10281563]

>>10280324
the 5th and 7th gens were needed for experimentation for the 6th and 8th to exist in the first place. they existed to push gaming forward even if i meant running games at 10fps with low poly 3D/piss filter. their sacrifice was not in vain.

[Anonymous No.10281574]

>>10280505
>>10280663
>>10280625
>>10281181

[Anonymous No.10281601]

>>10281547
>not "no longer exist", but existed in 2000-2002.
So literally you're just saying the games had better graphics and then crafted your entire argument around a simple wish. This is stupid. I'm out.

[Anonymous No.10281610]

>>10280841
If only they weren't so CPU cucked

[Anonymous No.10281625]

>>10281610
Oh boy, we need a PS5 to finally do 1080p gaming for the first time in history.

[Anonymous No.10281650]

>>10280832
Its sad how some people have to live their lives with 20/200 vision.

[Anonymous No.10281696]

>>10280676
Aaaaaaaand you're outcompeted by Sony and Nintendo, hell even the 3DO would likely outcompete you
It turns out ignoring want the consumer wants isnt a solid business strategy, who knew?

[Anonymous No.10281707]

>>10280676
>>10281696
Lel, basically what Sega did with the Saturn.
We all know how well that worked out for them.

[Anonymous No.10281740]

>>10280324
The 5th gen was actuslly the peak of console gaming. You could argue the mid to late 90s was the peak of gaming in general but I digress.
>games were now complex enough to stay engrossing for much longer
>at the same time they were still simple enough that smaller studios with less resources could afford to experiment, take risks and stay competitive
>the above factors led to there being a wider variety of games and types of games than ever before, and arguably ever since
>smaller companies could now compete with heavyweights on more or less equal ground
>CD format meant games were cheaper than ever to both make and to the consumer (doesnt apply to the N64 which had other distinct advantages)
>CDs also meant some of the best music games ever had
>the sheer variety of gameplay ideas, game concepts and game genres was never matched again ever since
Of course, you'd rather focus on something like graphics and technology or whatever, essentially shit noone gives a fuck about in the long run, as if the PS3 hasn't already been a big enough demonstration of were obsessing over such things leads

[Anonymous No.10281745]

>>10281707
The Saturn at least could do 3D, even if it couldn't do it as good as it's competition
A 2D only console in the 5th gen without even that would just be financial suicide
Hell even the Jaguar had 3D capabilities

[Anonymous No.10281750]

>>10281745
I mean, that is essentially what happened with the Amida CD32, and we all know how that ended. And yes even the 3DO and Jaguar did better than it did

[Anonymous No.10281761]

>>10280324
>Shitty anti aliasing
Dev problem. You can turn that off, but most devs didn't know.

[Anonymous No.10281785]

>>10281745
Basically a console version of the GBA hardware.
Fuckton of sprites and background layers, some mode 7 layers and support for sprite scaling and rotation

And that's it. Good luck with that in the mid 90s

[Anonymous No.10281808]

Meanwhile, a PC game running on 3Dfx card around these three consoles' lifetime look like this.
>>10281750
This also killed NEC PC-FX, on top of its dependence on (borderline) hentai.

[Anonymous No.10281901]

>>10280335
>There were no 3D games on computers until 1996
If this isn't bait, kill yourself.
If it is bait, kill yourself more painfully.

[Anonymous No.10281938]

This thread is absolute garbage

[Anonymous No.10281940]

>>10281938
>This thread is absolute garbage
So is your face

[Anonymous No.10281941]

>>10281136
>Nintendo
The N64's real problem was the Nintendo cheaped out on memory to keep the price down.
The CD reader was one of the most expensive parts of the PlayStation, and everything had to be read into RAM for fast enough access during rendering.

The N64 was, of course, very lacking in RAM, especially fast RAM.
The cartridges were really used because the fast cartridge ROM could be used to mitigate the effect of the lack of RAM.

...Basically, Nintendo couldn't have gone with a CD system. It would have doubled the cost of the console and priced them out of the market

[Anonymous No.10281943]

>>10281808
The PC-FX has loads of anime styled games but very few full hentai games. There are three explicit games IIRC and anything else is suggestive at most.

[Anonymous No.10281947]

>>10280324
PS1 is a system I've experienced entirely through emulation and its become one of my favorite consoles of all time.

[Anonymous No.10281962]

>>10280505
>All those "issues" blend perfectly on a CRT display.
No they fuckin didn't, don't try to gaslight me. It's been probably close to two decades since I played these things on CRT but I remember always thinking the PS looked like shit compared to the N64. Sure the textures had more detail but the aliasing, clipping, warping textures etc was out of fucking control and looked terrible. Of course I didn't use that language to describe it when I was 10 but I knew shit was fucked. You might be right about the N64, I remember it looking buttery smooth, but could just be that guy was wrong and the anti-aliasing was fine.

[Anonymous No.10281974]

>>10280841
3d still isn't perfected and i'm not exactly sure what huge advances you see in 8th gen. 7th had ambient occlusion and 9th has ray tracing. if any generation perfected 3d though i'd argue 6th, games came out fully formed and polished and started to actually look good.

[Anonymous No.10281996]

I just remember I stopped playing videogames around 95 cause I hated shitty 3d but everyone was going nuts for it

[Anonymous No.10282037]

>>10280670
Easy
>PS1 launch price: $300
>N64 launch price: $200
Sell the N64 for the original intended price of $250, and use that money to buy the extra RAM that the Silicon Graphics specification called for.
A N64 with a larger texture cache would look a generation beyond its competition... especially if you also improved the microcode - like Rare later did - to allow it to push more polygons.

A N64 without gimped memory would be much much MUCH easier to develop for as well, but also make proper development tools.
...Oh look: better games to go with your better graphics.

Can't stop winning.

[Anonymous No.10282206]

>>10280324
https://youtu.be/Sf036fO-ZUk?si=qt8bHqax5-pnE1GE

N64 was the best hardware, with features like environmental mapping that only the SGi computers could pull off, no hardware at that time had it.
Today with modern tools and proper knowledge in how to optimize 3D rendering people are starting to scratch the limits of te console, PSX and Saturn can barely be called 3D console's at all

[Anonymous No.10282314]

>>10280505
>Shitty Z bufferless graphics, everything is warpping and clipping and looks like shit
>All those "issues" blend perfectly on a CRT display.
How about fucking no. Retard.

[Anonymous No.10282323]

>>10281901
I specifically said DECENT 3D graphics you fucking retarded mongrelized pavement monkey.
There was NOTHING 3D on PC that looked impressive until Quake.

[Anonymous No.10282403]

>>10281696
>>10281745
yes it would be financial suicide. blame that marketing and consoomers who wanted 3D early and MOAR bits.

[Anonymous No.10282418]

>>10281974
8th gen perfected 3D because all the shitty problems with 3D like low poly models, low framerate, clunky controls, brown and piss were ironed out. difference between 8th and 9th is just gimmicks like ray tracing and DLSS, There's not much of a leap from Watch Dogs to Cyberpunk.

[Anonymous No.10282426]

>>10282037
>Can't stop winning.
Bro, you lost.

[Anonymous No.10282434]

>>10281740
2D 5th gen was peak gaming. 3D 5th gen is outdated slop.

[Anonymous No.10282452]

>>10282434
>3D 5th gen is outdated slop.
Nah, there's a certain charm to the look
Try doing DMT and playing something like Jumping Flash on ps1, it's a trip

[Anonymous No.10282454]

>>10281901
Super Nintendo could do Wolfenstien 3D style games.

[Anonymous No.10282457]

>>10282452
>have to use drugs to enjoy 5th gen 3D games
That only hurts your argument

[Anonymous No.10282480]

>>10281483
That gen has some of the best 3D games ever made, period. They were right to not delay things, almost by accident.

>SOTN or Alundra
I'm sorry but I just don't regard either game particularly highly, and both made poor use of the system's potential. Tomba and Oddworld would be far better examples of 2D games exceeding all but the best 3D titles.

[Anonymous No.10282493]

>>10281547
What's funny is that, in spite of your proposition, those games are still better than practically everything released in the generation after, so your argument sort of relies on the fact that these were not improved on, otherwise you could regard them as essential 'stepping stones' for what was to come, instead of the apex that they are. And the existing remakes of these games are already basically what you are suggesting.

In contrast, I'd also offer a game like Tomb Raider, which was essentially of its generation and actually needed to have clunky tank controls and simple polygonal environments, otherwise it wouldn't have been as close to as good as it was were it developed in a 'more refined' era.

The simplicity and lack of standards likely allowed greater experimentation than later generations would encourage.

[Anonymous No.10282528]

>>10282418
All the real innovation for 9th gen graphics wise is unironically in Unreal Engine. All the Nvidia whateverthefuck gimmicks are just shit used to sell AI hardware to consumers, Nvidia's raytracing and upscaling shit results in stuff that looks legitimately worse, while U5 tech has finally resulted in games that actually look realistic at a glance, it's just that Nvidia has way more marketing and more secondary markets behind their garbage.

[Anonymous No.10282540]

Remember.
Only N64 does 3D.

[Anonymous No.10282552]

>>10280324
Alright, bro. You put together 3D hardware priced to sell in the mid 90s. That said if they just put an optical drive and engineered its texture memory a little better, N64 would have been like a generation ahead.

[Anonymous No.10282562]

>>10282480
Lol, you couldn't even hope to have 2D games as busy and chock full of transparencies and polygons as SOTN in the 4th gen. Just because your madcatz brain doesn't realize it, it did use the hardware well. Even other machines of that gen couldn't quite hack it.

[Anonymous No.10282637]

>>10281302
>Nah, the 5th gen was great. I loved all the bizarre and experimental games that arose out of developers trying to figure out exactly what the hell a 3D game should be like. It was cool as hell that you never knew what the next big game was going to control or play like.
This. It's why i have more nostalgia for the 5th and 6th gens. People really take for granted the explosion of genres (even not-necessarily 3D genres like RTS or rhythm games) that came about thanks to the experimentation we saw with 3D gaming. They forget that for every groundbreaking title like Super Metroid or E.V.O. there were 20 dragon quest clones, 50 broken fighting games trying to be "the next Mortal Kombat/Street Fighter", 100 copypaste space shmups, and a shitload of mediocre beat 'em ups cobbled together in a few months, many which were no less jank than anything in the 5th gen despite the standards for those 2d genres being a lot more clear.

[Anonymous No.10282654]

Reminder, the premise of this thread is pure nonsense and OP is a disgrace.

[Anonymous No.10282663]

>>10282540
So it isn't retro and contributed to the downfall of vidya (dreamcast doesn't count ofc)

[Anonymous No.10282686]

>>10282637
it's really sad because with the 5th gen we could've seen the result of years of refinement of 2D and could've seen the true great potential of 2D games. 2D without any of the limits of the 1st-4th gens. 2D with much more powerful hardware, 32bit CPUs, MUCH bigger storage medium (even the N64), having 2D games with some nice 3D effects (like in SOTN), FMVs, and of course CD quality audio.

of course all the experimentation of 3D was cool, but it was done at the expense of potentially great 2D games. both experimentation and refinement are important, and the 5th gen lacked the later in 3D, at the very least until the very end (2000ish).

not to mention the 5th gen is responsible for the death of 2D gaming on home consoles, something that is still felt to this day outside of indies.

The 5th gen would've been so much better if it was 80% 2D 20% 3D rather than vise versa.

[Anonymous No.10282812]

>>10282457
You don't have to. You can enjoy them perfectl sober as well.
Games with trippy visuals like early 3D ps1 titles are just a different experience with them

[Anonymous No.10283138]

>>10282654
Exactly.
Is like seething about the NES or SMS nothing being able to handle bigger sprites or multiples scrolling background.

[Anonymous No.10283192]

>Gen5
>People hating on it
What in the shit is this. Ya the hardware was weird and controls were weird because it was new, but holy crap its one of the best gens.

Playstation
>some of the top tier game music ever made still
>had amazing 2D ability from SotN to fighting games
>limited 3D ability meant games were kept in scope away from the uncanny valley
>combined both for handpainted backgrounds and 3D versions of SNES style sprites

N64
>fast loading multiplayer fun
>amazing sleepover machine

Saturn
>one of the most powerful 2D focused machines
>an incredible arcade machine without the NeoGeo price tag

Ngl playstation dominated but holy crap so many good hits came out of this generation and were the base for so much of the good that came after.

[Anonymous No.10283207]

>>10282686
>it's really sad because with the 5th gen we could've seen the result of years of refinement of 2D and could've seen the true great potential of 2D games.
But...we did though.
Even beyond the aforementioned Alundra and SOTN we had:
Astal
Silhouette Mirage
Rayman
Guilty Gear
Guardian Heroes
The Darkstalker games
Suikoden 1 and 2
Legend of Mana
Saga Frontier 2
Dragon Force
Princess Crown
Super Tempo
Street Fighter Alpha 2
Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain
These are just the ones off the top of my head, all fully 2D or 2D dominant games from the 5th gen that are all worth playing

[Anonymous No.10284334]

>>10282686
OP you are a fucking imbecile and continue to ignore every deconstruction of your arguments. Please stop posting.

[Anonymous No.10284379]

>>10282540
And its completely wasted due to having potato textures.