/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.10274916]

Should I take the savestate blue pill? It helps you save time and experience more games but it's literally a cheat, an external modification that the developers never intended to be part of the game

[Anonymous No.10274921]

i feel like if i need savestates then that just means i need to get good
but if the game's literally broken bullshit meant to waste your time because it's NES era, then eeehhh depends on the game. It's a gradient between "git gud" and "bullshit fucking broken game".

[Anonymous No.10274928]

>>10274916
Take all the pills OP so you overdose and die in your sleep, thus never shitting up the board again.

[Anonymous No.10274930]

Play as you see fit. Seeking validation here is one of the dumbest acts you can do.

[Anonymous No.10274931]

If a game has lengthy, unskippable cutscenes, I make a save state.
If a game has a Lives system and kicks me out of them game after losing them all, I make a save state.
If the checkpoint systems sucks, I make a save state.

[Anonymous No.10274934]

>>10274916
I used to avoid them at all costs, but after a while I started really enjoying the use of them to pick it up right from where I left of, thanks to Lemuroid, to me it's no different from leaving your console on over night, the difference is that you're simply avoiding potential damage to your consoles due to overheating and stuff, and saving youself the time from replaying levels you already dominate.

[Anonymous No.10274935]

>>10274916
I only use save states if I don't really care about beating a game and just want to finish it. Sometimes I will go back to play with out them but if I start using them in the first place it usually wont happen. It does take some of the fun out of game though. Rewind is the real evil though. Takes all the fun out of stuff.

[Anonymous No.10274936]

Just remember that time doesn't stop just so you can finish a videogame.

[Anonymous No.10274938]

>>10274921
This. Also to add, it feels better beating a game without save states, especially if the savestates are used to get you through a hard part that's been filtering you. Getting past brickwalls without cheating is creates a dynamic where you are now invested in the game through oxytocin responses. You get the rush when you get past the touch parts which makes beating the game so much more meaningful to your subconscious mind. But also, fuck extremely cheap or trash games. My example is megaman 2. I need er beat it as a kid, came back to it in like o7-08 on a Wii using savestates with a friend and I didn't feel any feeling of accomplishment and I thought it was weird, so I tried playing without save states and while I'm fairly ok at megaman. I died a few times but then I fuckin ng kept dying at the dragon part with the disappearing blocks. I got so fucking frustrated but I didn't give up and when I made it past that part and oicked up momentum then beat the game I was flushed with adrenaline and felt amazing, I can still feel it now as I'm typing.

[Anonymous No.10274939]

>>10274916
Play the games how you want to. Just don't brag about beating a hard game if you did it with savestates though

[Anonymous No.10274947]

>>10274934
I'm pretty sure OP is talking about using savestates as checkpoints. Basically saving before and after any difficult segment of the game to eliminate the consequences of dying

[Anonymous No.10274949]

>>10274916
It actually comes in the form of a red pill.

[Anonymous No.10274951]

>>10274916
I use them all the time because like you said there are too many games worth playing and replaying, I can't be stuck replaying one level for hours.
One genre where I will admit it kind of ruins the game is racing. Sometimes I get so into savescumming I save mid race. That is shameful, it's the crack cocaine stage of my savescumming addiction

[Anonymous No.10274952]

>>10274938
I won't savestate unless it's built into the game, but for some games I don't really care to 'git gud' at (the bullshit fucking broken games) but still have an interest in, I'll watch a streamer play through it or a no commentary playthrough if I can't find someone who isn't cringe.

[Anonymous No.10274954]

>>10274916
I've stopped giving a fuck. I'm currently replaying Zelda II. I've beaten it on real hardware several times, even on the fucking GameCube with that shitty D-pad, but right now I just can't be arsed with dying and being sent all the way back to the start of the game, so fuck it, time to save state scum.

[Anonymous No.10274958]

>>10274954
I feel that on replays it doesn't matter how you play it.

[Anonymous No.10274959]

>>10274916
Most PC games had savestates "built-in", and this isn't considered cheating so long as you can restrain yourself from savescumming AKA using your own judgment to determine what is fair and not abusing it.
You could perhaps justify it with console games as "overcoming hardware limitations of the time".

[Anonymous No.10274962]

>>10274916
It's a game, not a fucking movie.
There's an inherent skill requirement. You aren't guaranteed an ending unless you improve to meet it.

It sounds like you don't particularly like games, and would be better served by watching someone else do it. Faggot.

[Anonymous No.10274964]

>>10274952
Yeah I just completely drop stupid bullshit games, well... So etines I get attached to certain jank. For example, I really enjoy Indiana Jones and the temple of doom(tengen) on nes. I think once you get used to the controls it's actually extremely fun. There's like 50 levels if you don't use warp doors. I've never been able to beat it without using warosu, but I am on it one day... It's tough as balls, but imho it's worth it. It's not busyevels of shit or action 52 levels of shit. It's just a bit awkward to get used to the controls.

[Anonymous No.10274968]

>>10274959
Yeah, that's another thing. The original Doom would make you lose all of your weapons when dying so obviously some kind of consequence was intended. Is saving after every fight in Doom cheating when it's an option the vanilla game gives you on every difficulty?

[Anonymous No.10274969]

>>10274964
Warp doors* not warosu whoooopsie

[Anonymous No.10274973]

>>10274969
I was thinking "how the hell does a 4chan archive website help him beat an NES game?"

[Anonymous No.10274978]

>>10274952
Yeah I just completely drop stupid bullshit games, well... Sometines I get attached to certain jank. For example, I really enjoy Indiana Jones and the temple of doom(tengen) on nes. I think once you get used to the controls it's actually extremely fun. There's like 50 levels if you don't use warp doors. I've never been able to beat it without using warp doors, but I am on it one day... It's tough as balls, but imho it's worth it. It's not bubsy levels of shit or action 52 levels of shit. It's just a bit awkward to get used to the controls.

[Anonymous No.10274983]

Beating a challenge where the odds are stacked against you takes you to the top of the world, you'll remember that for the rest of your life with pride.
Savestates rob you of that. I have played through the 3 Ninja Gaiden NES games with savestates when I started playing emulators, and felt nothing, it was an empty accomplishment, like watching a youtube playthrough. I cheated nobody but myself out of the thrill of putting everything on the line and conquering it with skin in the game. I even keep telling myself that I'm going to win fair eventually but I never feel like trying.

[Anonymous No.10274987]

>>10274916
Well, why are you playing the game in the first place? Do you care about sharing an experience with other people by playing under the same rules they did (now or in the past)? Or does it just need to be enjoyable to you personally? If the latter, does it seem like modifying a particular game with savestates or rom hacks or whatever in an attempt to make it more fun is a better use of your time than just looking for a more fun game instead? It may be, but don't hesitate to drop games to play better ones instead of wrestling with trying to make bad games fun.
If you just want to see the sights and sounds of a game, Youtube is more efficient than save states.

[Anonymous No.10274995]

>>10274916
>but it's literally a cheat, an external modification that the developers never intended to be part of the game
Oh no.
The horror.
Anyway, Cheat Engine just finished the scan, so see ya.

[Anonymous No.10274996]

>>10274983
Getting good and beating a bullshit game after losing a lot feels like the game is taking pity on you rather than you surmounting the challenge. Like a boxer giving up because it's bored of punching you. But with savestates, you can punch back with brass knuckles. Then you can play it without savestates knowing there's nothing it's keeping away from you anymore.

[Anonymous No.10274997]

>>10274996
I am not against save states but this is the most retarded thing I have read in one of these threads.

[Anonymous No.10275002]

>>10274916
To offer a different perspective from the ones here, there are plenty of games that I greatly struggled with before eventually beating without save states, and looking back it feels hollow. I want my time back, and I wish I had save scummed.

[Anonymous No.10275004]

>>10274996
That post is possibly the strangest thing I've ever read on /vr/

[Anonymous No.10275007]

The blue pill gives you a boner. Nothing wrong with that

[Anonymous No.10275008]

>>10274997
Bro these games were $40 worth of lemonade stand money back then. If a game wasted too much of my time I'd shove Game Genie up its ass and bruteforce my way to the end.
Chess is worth the effort for its age and history, not a videogame from 40 years ago.

[Anonymous No.10275013]

>>10274916
Yes. Chill, have fun and master the game with save states. Then drop the training wheels and wreck shit for real. Miserable autists who dedicate their entire lives to specific games fear this.

[Anonymous No.10275014]

>>10274996
That analogy could use work, but I get what you mean. I find that cheesing a difficult game can actually be more satisfying than beating it legitimately. It's like getting even with the bullshit that frustrated you so much.

[Anonymous No.10275016]

>>10274983
>you'll remember that for the rest of your life with pride
That's such a bizarre mindset to me. It's not real anon, it's a game, it's just meant for entertainment. Even winning an Olympic medal is, let's be honest, a waste of everyone's time. It's all just entertainment. I get that beating a hard boss is satisfying but that's hardly the only strong emotion games make you feel. And it's definitely not the main one for me, if I play a game like that once a year, I'm good, I don't need more.
>>10274987
>you just want to see the sights and sounds of a game, Youtube is more efficient than save states
People say that but it's not the case at all. With savestates you may be removing challenge but you're not removing interactivity, you're still experiencing the gameplay. It's basically a rewind mechanic which Nintendo includes in the box these days with many rereleases

[Anonymous No.10275017]

>>10274996

[Anonymous No.10275019]

I've been playing on emulators for like 20 years and I never used them, but in the past 3 years or so I slowly started using them. I started saving only on password screens, then started saving before each level, then started using them before bullshit parts. Nowadays I'm a shameless savescummer and I don't care, the point of gaming is to have fun just do whatever the fuck you want.

[Anonymous No.10275023]

>>10274978
Currently punishing myself for savestating Ian Livingstone's Deathtrap Dungeon. It's "worth" beating legit to me, It's a great game. There's a few beginners traps but you only have to restart the level. Was playing it on emulator but now I'm going to beat the game on original hardware without cheating. My jank game I put the time into beating was Super Mario Land for Gameboy. The china level is just completely stupid bullshit you have to replay the game multiple times just to beat it legit.

[Anonymous No.10275027]

>>10274996
Yeah there's a difference between picking dev-made easy mode that takes pity on you and breaking the game to such a degree that devs couldn't even imagine back in the day. Fuck you devs, you've programmed some bullshit, well my emu guys programmed more bullshit on top of your bullshit and I'm beating your bullshit with mine, how do you like that you pieces of shit

[Anonymous No.10275041]

>>10274916
The fact that you’re even playing on hardware that’s capable of creating a savestate automatically makes you a scrub, so fuck it, savescum away. Better yet just go watch the game on YouTube.

[Anonymous No.10275050]

>>10274916
If playing with save states won’t satisfy you, you shouldn’t do it. Experiencing more games isn’t as important as getting the most out of them.

[Anonymous No.10275051]

No need to engage with extra-life mechanics if you don't need lives. No need to plan around checkpoints if you don't need checkpoints. No need to carefully choose powerups from the shop if half of them are irrelevant due to savestates.
It's up to you if you care or not.

[Anonymous No.10275059]

>>10275019
Based anon. I save scum all the time and not just with retro games. I save scummed to pass every skill check in bg3. I regularly save scum roguelikes too. It makes me hard thinking about all the impotent rage like >>10275041

[Anonymous No.10275060]

>>10274947
I see, sorry for my misunderstanding... anyways, for these types of saving, I think it's fine too, it's your playthrough afterall, we all do what we feel like doing at the end of the day. If something's difficult, but fun and fair, I'll never use it... but if something's BS or just not very good, I feel that saving can improve the experience, since it might make your experience more streamlined and less frustrating, especially if you use it with rules, like only using it at the start of a level, for example... but still, if you need saving to make a bad video game better, why play it? I'm guilty of it myself...

[Anonymous No.10275062]

I hope nobody pretends pressing F5 constantly is somehow different.

[Anonymous No.10275080]

I press save state in every fight in Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3. If I land a good solid combo I save. If AI is going to read my input, we will brute force the optimal play. Tit for tat.

[Anonymous No.10275084]

>>10274939
Why not? At the highest level of competition cheating is the norm.

[Anonymous No.10275085]

We're getting too old to spend 50 tries on a level. Use the save states if you want, who gives a fuck.


With that said you didn't beat it.

[Anonymous No.10275097]

>>10274916
If you can use save states, you're going to use savestates. Stop pretending you have to ask what is right. When you study for a test, do you bookmark important information and study it over and over. But you have to read about what is written of the specific game. But dont cheat and think you're getting somewhere or accomplishing a goal. And don't ask stupid questions about what you should do.

[Anonymous No.10275102]

if you're already emulating you're just being dense by not using them. It doesn't prove anything to anyone. The fact that you made this thread is actually pretty sad

[Anonymous No.10275103]

>>10275085
this

[Anonymous No.10275104]

>>10275084
>At the highest level of competition cheating is the norm
Honestly you're not wrong. I wonder what the percentage of cheated speedrunning world records is. Some are probably really good at cheating and making sure it's practically impossible to find any evidence

[Anonymous No.10275108]

>>10275097
>If you can use save states, you're going to use savestates
Speak for yourself

[Anonymous No.10275109]

>>10275104
nah the real autists will break out the spectragraphs and check for splices in the audio and shit. It's typically more common in less popular runs, but as soon as a turbo autist takes on a game the analysts come out too.

[Anonymous No.10275116]

>>10275080
for what purpose? like, what are you accomplishing when you do this? Evidently you're not getting any better at the game, so what is the point?

[Anonymous No.10275118]

>>10275109
There are other ways than splicing, especially if RNG is involved. The Minecraft guy got caught because he made his RNG manipulation too good but you can make it more subtle

[Anonymous No.10275129]

>>10274916
If you were building a lego set and decided to turn in for the day, would you take it apart and rebuild it the next day?

[Anonymous No.10275136]

if you're really concerned about the absolute purity of the experience, you've already tainted it with emulation by virtue of the fact that loading times are diminished and the "quirks" of the original hardware are replaced with those of emulation. This thread is actual retardation

[Anonymous No.10275147]

If you don't like the rules, you don't like the game. Nothing wrong with playing a different game if you don't like it, but changing the rules via save states are for hipster hanger-ons obsessed with fake social accreditation and don't enjoy the games they choose to play.

If your time is that valuable, save more of it by watching walkthroughs instead.

[Anonymous No.10275159]

>>10275136
>you've already tainted it with emulation
So playing PSX games in Dreamcast or a slim PS2, or playing gameboy games in a Gamecube doesn't count? Is that what you're saying, zoomzoom?

[Anonymous No.10275163]

>>10275147
That's 5 good arguments in favor of save states vs 1 against save states.

[Anonymous No.10275170]

This is going to make so sound like such a snob, but I need to speak the truth.

I never say this, but if you use save states you *actually didn't* beat the game. I never post that meme, but it's true here. Save states means you sort of played the game, but you shouldn't be proud and didn't actually "beat" it. It's more like watching an interactive longplay on YouTube.

Also, don't give me the whole bullshit about how old NES games are too hard, unfair, were supposed to drag out. That was partially true, but it's not 1990 anymore either. You've had several decades to get better.

I've played kaizo Mario levels and danmaku shmups for years, so I really don't really struggle with platformers or games that require precision. It's never *really* hard. Like, Battletoads has a lot of memorization but none of the execution is that bad compared to kaizo. Same with Zelda 2, Ninja Gaiden, etc. Above all, stop and THINK about why you're dying and try something else... instead of doing the same thing over and over again. Most gamers are morons of course, so they'll never improve and just whine about how games are "Nintendo hard" and will use save states.

[Anonymous No.10275174]

>>10275163
Everyone knows more mental gymnastics means you're more correct

[Anonymous No.10275180]

>>10275174
It's not mental gymnastics if it's a good point.

[Anonymous No.10275195]

>>10275180
Shame that it's delusional coping, then.

[Anonymous No.10275207]

>>10275195
It's delusional to think you can play your games how you want?

[Anonymous No.10275278]

>>10275207
It's delusional coping to nerf game rules and pretend you're playing the same game

[Anonymous No.10275318]

The absence of features like savestates was often a limitation of the technology, not necessarily a deliberate design choice.

Many re-releases of classic games by the original developers now include savestates.

[Anonymous No.10275324]

Who gives a fuck what the developers intended? They didn't intend for you to play them on an emulator in the first place, and why do you need the approval of random shitheads on here?

[Anonymous No.10275330]

>>10275159
if you're absolutely concerned with the "purity" of the experience, then yes. Otherwise why splice hairs? That's exactly what I'm saying, retard.

[Anonymous No.10275348]

Game uses bullshit to kill you or make the experience tedious? Save state
Game is fair and you feel you're dying because your own fault? No save state.
Use save states as a fuck you to shitty devs. Simple as.

[Anonymous No.10275356]

>>10275318
If the technology was incapable for those games, why change it? You're not playing those games anymore when you do.

The original save state was credit feeding. You could power through a game if you could afford to.

>>10275348
Why are you playing games from shitty devs? Play something you'll enjoy instead of torturing yourself.

[Anonymous No.10275378]

>>10275318
>>10275356
> If the technology was incapable for those games
Well unless it’s fucking pong or Atari 2600 it was capable of saves or at least password systems. Do people not remember saving on floppy disks??? The fucking Vic-20 had this capability. If a game didn’t have saves or passwords, the devs intended it to be that way by force(higher ups demanding it), choice(the devs wanted it that way), time constraints/etc… This rerelease bullshit is just devs pandering to the quality of life pandemic that’s stricken the once hardcore gaming community.
>From Hardcore to Gay Whore: The Transsexual Story of Journalism in Video Games

[Anonymous No.10275381]

>>10275378
Sometimes it was manufacturing costs to, it's an extra chip on a cartridge to including saving

[Anonymous No.10275389]

>>10275378
The only classic arcade games that had saves were the Neo Geo cabs. Even in arcades it wasn't a limitation, it was an intentional choice.

[Anonymous No.10275393]

>>10275389
>limitation, it was an intentional choice.
Or perhaps a financial decision, rack up more quarters and save money not including the saving infrastructure on the motherboards.

[Anonymous No.10275394]

>>10275278
Holy cringe. Knockback in CV is the least of your worries in the latter stages of the game since you die in around 4 hits.

[Anonymous No.10275407]

>>10275393
Financial decisions tend to be intentional, so yeah. If you don't like how the game plays because you can't save your progress, find a different game to play so you don't feel like you're wasting your time.

I swear there's good cash to be made by ripping off and casualizing old arcade games for audiences raised on mobile gaming

[Anonymous No.10275413]

>>10275407
Or, just use savestates or flip the switch in your arcade machine so you don't have to keep putting quarters in and can still enjoy yourself.

[Anonymous No.10275436]

>>10275413
If you don't like losing, don't play games where you can lose. Just look for this helpful icon and you'll be assured a stress free game.

[Anonymous No.10275438]

>>10274916
How much of a fragile zoomer faggot do you have to be to ask permission on how to play video games?

What's it like being you every day? Scared to literally think for yourself for even the smallest thing? Please tell me what it's like to be afraid constantly. I want to understand. I want to comprehend the NPC follower mind that desperately needs approval from anonymous nobodies.

[Anonymous No.10275441]

>>10275436
Or I could play whatever I like, however I like and there's nothing you can do about it.

[Anonymous No.10275468]

>>10274916
Do what you fucking want. The only reason people give shit to anyone over this shit is because they almost always feel the need to bring it up when unprompted. Play games to have fun and stop trying to get e-cred.

[Anonymous No.10275471]

>>10275441
Why bother? So you can receive fake social accreditation for playing games you don't even like?

[Anonymous No.10275484]

>>10274916
Savestates are just a breath of fresh air. Like emulating over 100% for games with built-in repetitive unentertaining grind. You're bypassing lazy devs or low budgets. Its as dumb as feeling guilty about turning up framerate or resolution.

[Anonymous No.10275491]

>>10274916
Games are meant to be an entertaining diversion. Do whatever is more fun for you. Just keep in mind that cheating may very well ruin a good game... though it can also sometimes save a bad game.

[Anonymous No.10275505]

>>10275471
> fake social accreditation
projecting much, there are other reasons to play games then getting head pats from people for beating "hard" games.

[Anonymous No.10275513]

If you don't like the game, stop playing it. You aren't obligated to play every game just because you like playing games.

Information addiction is a problem for game fans. They want to experience it all and feel they're missing out when they can't. Their obsession is killing them.

[Anonymous No.10275518]

>>10275505
That was indeed the purpose of that phrase. If you don't naturally enjoy a game then you aren't missing out on anything by playing something you actually enjoy instead. *pats your head*

[Anonymous No.10275524]

I'll never understand the appeal of removing any and all tension from playing a game but whatever floats peoples boat I guess. You'd probably get the same enjoyment out of watching a longplay at that point.

[Anonymous No.10275532]

>>10275518
You've assumed I play games for social validation, you're arguing with yourself mon ami. Why are you so personally invested in savestates? Do you feel it takes away your special social status if someone beats the game using them? What's your major malfunction numbnuts?

[Anonymous No.10275557]

>>10275532
Why are you being so defensive if you aren't invested? You're on a forum which indicates some level of desire to communicate your experiences and thoughts. By cheapening your own experience, you're only kidding yourself.

>Because I am hard, you will not like me. But the more you hate me, the more you will learn. I am hard, but I am fair!

[Anonymous No.10275559]

>>10275557
Man, you're so far off target I don't even know what you're on about even more.

[Anonymous No.10275563]

>>10275559
It's almost like you should appreciate the challenge before engaging with it further.

[Anonymous No.10275574]

You've lost me bro, what are you talking about?

[Anonymous No.10275576]

>>10275574
I need to play more games but I suck ass at things I've played once. Can you please make me feel better about being a casual media consumer?

[Anonymous No.10275584]

>>10274916
If you want to experience as many games as you want, sure. Who cares.
If you want to talk about challenge or beating something hard, no.
It's still miles better than watching some video of some tard struggling through a game.

[Anonymous No.10275585]

>>10275584
Honestly it's nice watching an experienced player complete a game rather than grinding it out yourself. Especially if it's a game I can't be bothered to get used to.

[Anonymous No.10275586]

>>10275576

[Anonymous No.10275589]

>>10275576
Sure thing Kyle. I got this wii LOADED WITH 2000 OLD SCHOOL RETRO GAMES YOU CAN
>S A V E S T A T E
IN MARIO
ALL FOR THE LOW LOW PRICE OF NORMALCY YOU DONT WANT TO FOMO DO YOU HOMO? NO NO, YOULL BE HAPPY AFTER YOU PUT THOSE BETA BUX IN MY HAND JOHNIFER, THATS RIGHT NOW, CUT OFF YOUR OENIS FOR ME

[Anonymous No.10275601]

>>10275576
Stop playing shit you don't like faggot

[Anonymous No.10275660]

>>10275041
NTA, but why would I give up playing on original hardware just because some insecure tryhard is triggered by savestates?

[Anonymous No.10275662]

>>10275660
You don't have to care about being a scrub. Scrubs do

[Anonymous No.10275663]

>>10274916
Do what you want, as long as you don't pretend you beat the game.

[Anonymous No.10275670]

>>10274916
The way I see it, when it comes to save states you can say I didn't beat the game but you can't say I didn't beat the system.

[Anonymous No.10275873]

>>10274930
but his mind will know if he cheats,he might not seek validation of others but himself.

[Anonymous No.10275879]

>>10274962
games are toys, not work
if it doesn't respect your time, it's not worth playing

[Anonymous No.10275886]

>>10275873
Then that's his battle, we're pretty irrelevant.

[Anonymous No.10275902]

>>10275147
>I don't like the rules
>I have a tool that changes rules
>now I like the rules
>noooo changing the rules via save states are for hipster hanger-ons obsessed with fake social accreditation
Lol

[Anonymous No.10275910]

>>10275050
>Experiencing more games isn’t as important as getting the most out of them
I don't agree, I find that the more games I play the more I appreciate different kinds of games. The challenge of being a "gamer" isn't mastering one game, it's learning to appreciate a variety of genres across a variety of generations. I'd argue most gamers completely fail to rise up to that challenge as they spend a thousand of hours playing one game and when they branch off they stay in the genres they're comfortable with. It takes experience to learn to enjoy varied genres, and when you play games across a variety of genres the chance of your "burnout" from gaming is extremely low, it never gets boring.

[Anonymous No.10275960]

>>10275116
The point is having fun. Getting better at a game where the only way to win is to cheese and exploit in the first place is pointless.

[Anonymous No.10275961]

>>10275278
Not what the image said. Save states aren't the same experience, they're a better experience (sometimes).

[Anonymous No.10275965]

>>10274928
this
spbp

[Anonymous No.10275969]

>>10275961
Nerfing game rules means you should play a different game

[Anonymous No.10275972]

>>10275902
>I have tools that change the rules
>Now I'm playing a different game
The rest is true

[Anonymous No.10275974]

>>10275969
Because? If a game is fun with save states for someone, then it's worth it for them to play.

[Anonymous No.10275981]

>>10274916
If a game requires external tools to be fun then it's probably not worth your time

[Anonymous No.10276016]

>>10274916
Imagine caring what mongolian basket weaver posters think of the way you play a game.
Pathetic.

[Anonymous No.10276023]

>>10275981
If a game requires vision to be fun then it's probably not worth your time
If a game requires hands to be fun then it's probably not worth your time
If a game requires skill to be fun then it's probably not worth your time

I mean you can put any stupid bullshit there and try to pass it off as fact. A great game can have a a few poor design choices that hamper the experience but can be greatly improved through "external tools"

[Anonymous No.10276026]

>>10275972
>Now I'm playing a different game
That was already decided when I booted up an emulator and picked up my Xbone controller. I'm not trying to recapture my childhood, just trying to enjoy some games

[Anonymous No.10276036]

>>10274916
If putting time and effort in playing/beating a game is a deterrent for you, I'd rather find another hobby IMO. Also, did you know you don't have to beat every game you play?

[Anonymous No.10276068]

>>10275910
But you aren't learning to appreciate anything if you're using cheats to rush through games, that's just treating them like a list of chores.
Getting good at a game takes more time, but it builds up your innate skill and I think that's key enjoying a greater variety of games in the long run.

[Anonymous No.10276101]

>>10275910
I'm pro save state, but I feel like mastering 1 game makes someone more of a "hardcore gamer" than dabbling in a bunch of games. Not that it matters anyway.

[Anonymous No.10276206]

>>10274916

Never ever use save states. They leave you hollow. You didn't beat the game if you used states.

[Anonymous No.10276415]

>>10274916
I used to count on them to make anything I found too frustrating, often due to taking you back to the title screen when losing too many lives, a bit more manageable... but eventually I realized that in these specific cases it's a lot better to just use a Game Genie or Pro Action Replay code to get infinite lives/continues instead, so now I only use save states to not lose my progress when I have to stop playing, it's the same as leaving the console on while paused when I was a kid, so I don't see the issue, as for the codes I use, it makes things more fun, so I don't care very much.

[Anonymous No.10276464]

>>10276415
That's the best way. I've been screwed too many times by accidentally loading an old state.

[Anonymous No.10276539]

>>10276101
>feel like mastering 1 game makes someone more of a "hardcore gamer" than dabbling in a bunch of games
I don't agree. There's a ton of hypercasual gamers who are masters of one or two games. People who play nothing but FIFA, CoD, Dota, CS, WoW, Genshin, Warthunder. Are those the "hardcore gamers"? Most of them know nothing about video games but they WILL beat you at that one game they play every day after work. I have a friend who's amazing at Civilization and a friend who's great at Counter-Strike, neither of them know anything about gaming or even care to know.
On the other hand absolutely nobody except for the autistic gaming obsessed freaks plays hundreds of games across varied genres and platforms every year.

[Anonymous No.10276637]

I use save states as a "suspend" feature if I want to pick my playthrough back up later, or a save feature for games that lack a save system (because fuck memorizing passwords). I still don't consider a game "beaten" unless I play through without any save states though.

[Anonymous No.10276671]

If you don't want to actually play the game and see the gameplay as an obstacle between you and the cutscenes that needs to be "fixed" by cheating past it, you're probably better off just watching a playthrough on Youtube.

[Anonymous No.10276758]

>>10274934
A very acceptable use

[Anonymous No.10277025]

>>10274916
I used to like them as a kid but I dont use them anymore. I'm compelled even more to not rely on them or rewinding by using retroachievements because "muh hardcore mode!"
I do use fast forward though. I cant recommend it enough for grindy RPGs or unskippable cutscenes.

[Anonymous No.10277146]

>>10276671
I can't strawman too, look
>If you're only playing games for a fake sense of achievement you need to turn games off and achieve something in real life, your whole body is desperately begging you to do it, that's why you're drawn to the fake challenge of "conquering" games.

[Anonymous No.10277149]

>>10274916
I come from the PC gaming world where quicksaves were non-negotiable.
console kiddies complain about how savestates are cheating but what they don't understand is that devs made their games needlessly long/difficult to fill for content.

[Anonymous No.10277184]

>>10277146
Why do you play games if not for a sense of achievement? What else do you gain from playing the game that you won't gain from just watching someone else play it?

[Anonymous No.10277276]

They're mostly bad. They lead to either shallow grinding for a lucky attempt instead of proper gaining of mastery, or anal fixation of perfecting a segment due to the ease of retrying it, again resulting in dumb grinding. Either way they make a game less fun. Plus, if a game isn't worth getting good enough at to beat without save states why play it in the first place?

[Anonymous No.10277295]

>>10274916
>it's literally a cheat
it's me skipping the same, easy shit I could do blindfolded to continually challenge myself with the difficult sections without archaic checkpoints that were hardware limitations and padding

[Anonymous No.10277365]

>>10275118
QRD on this? I know that faggot Karl Jobst made a video about it because it showed up on my Youtube feed some time back, but I ain't clicking that shit.

[Anonymous No.10277415]

>>10277149
Quicksaves were a necessity on PC because PC games were buggy pieces of shit that would crash at random, and largely still are.

[Anonymous No.10277456]

>>10275974
If you can't enjoy a game without changing its rules then you don't actually like the game.
>>10276026
If I wanted to recapture childhood then I would use save states considering how children change the rules when they lose or get bored.
>>10277146
If the challenge isn't fun then play something else. Fake social accreditation chasing poser fashionistas

[Anonymous No.10277461]

>OH MY SCIENCE, YOU CAN'T JUST AVOID THE UNSKIPPABLE 4 MINUTE CUTSCENE RIGHT BEFORE THE BOSS FIGHT
>THAT'S NOT HOW THE DEVELOPERS WANTED YOU TO PLAY THE GAME

[Anonymous No.10277486]

>>10277456
Sure, they don't like the game out of the box. If they like the game with modified rules, why shouldn't they play it that way? As an example, some games have both combat and puzzles. If someone likes the narrative and solving puzzles but not the combat, it makes sense for them to save scum through that part and play the rest instead of just watching a video.

[Anonymous No.10277495]

>>10277461
Too bad you can't just avoid the unskippable gameplay either...

[Anonymous No.10277518]

>>10277486
Forcing themselves through retro games they only partially enjoy for sake of saying they played the classics is a sisyphean waste of their time. Finding games enjoyable in their entirety is easier than ever considering how many are out there, and if you need modern design then you should play modern games. There's a distinct issue most posters here have with this point, it's the realization they prefer modern games and systems and will find they fit in much better when discussing them instead of discussing games they only partially care about.

[Anonymous No.10277525]

It makes me laugh so hard how people can have such an authoritarian view on old toys. This is honestly on the same level as an autistic kid crying that you're playing with a toy wrong.

[Anonymous No.10277536]

>>10277525
>drops ball directly onto bell
I won!

[Anonymous No.10277564]

>>10277518
A lot of games have a unique story or atmosphere. Why is it a waste of time if they only enjoy it mostly? Do you only play games you consider flawless?
>>10277525
It's not just at the same level, that's literally what's going on here.
>>10277536
That's more like skipping to the end of the game. Using save states is more like placing the ball right before the obstacle you're stuck on. And if you're bored of doing the first couple obstacles again and again before you hit an impasse, then it'll enhance your fun to put the ball right where you're stuck.

[Anonymous No.10277607]

>>10277564
You can enjoy the atmosphere and story without dealing with gameplay that doesn't interest you, it's called watching a walkthrough instead. Perfect/imperfect design is irrelevant to my game vetting process; I play games if I like the gameplay. If I'm not having fun, I stop playing.

The act of dropping the ball anywhere other than at the beginning is missing the point of the toy and shows an obsession with winning. If you just want to ring the bell you can play with a bike bell instead, only to promptly realise it wasn't the bell that makes the toy fun but instead the ability to complete the course in one go as quickly as possible. If you're not having fun anymore then stop torturing yourself and find something else you do enjoy, maybe you can pick it up again later and do better in the future.

If you can't handle losing, you can always play with a door stopper instead.

[Anonymous No.10277883]

>>10275663
Did

[Anonymous No.10277908]

>>10277536
dude what the fuck is this? this looks legitimately awesome

[Anonymous No.10277959]

>>10277607
Well sometimes one could enjoy the way it plays, but not enough to deal with replaying the whole thing after losing too many times due to a few difficulty spikes, so they save at the start of levels or at every checkpoint... they still enjoy playing, they might enjoy the mechanics, but dislike restarting it or having to replay parts they've already did so many times, so save states improve their experience while still letting them play, unlike a walkthrough or commentary on it.

It's not just about winning, or not being able to handle losing, it's about making the experience more fun by working around a few aspects that one might dislike about a game, while enjoying the rest of the experience while playing through.

[Anonymous No.10278152]

>>10274916
yes, and also bind rewind to L2, and use git to version control your savestates

rewind can reveal a lot about a game's design and makes it obvious why Mario is more fun than Sonic

[Anonymous No.10278162]

>>10275007
not needed if you eat whole food plant based and have attractive partners which is easy if you have the body of someone who eats whole food plant based

i don't bother with apps because i can just show up irl and get with the hottest gay furry sparkledog

[Anonymous No.10278281]

>>10277908
It's a modern classic; Screwball Scramble by Tomy. It's as great as it looks.
>>10277959
If you're not having fun replaying a game it means you're playing for novelty, are somehow disconnected from gameplay you once enjoyed, and would get the same enjoyment and save more time by watching walkthroughs instead. All game fans will overlook so-called tedious design trappings because they like playing with the genre mechanics on a fundamental level. RPG fans like grinding, Shmup and Adventure fans like revising routing, Action and Sports fans like... Action and Sports.

>if you're not having fun anymore then stop torturing yourself and find something else you do enjoy, maybe you can pick it up again later and do better in the future.

Game fans are the kind of compulsive people that will eat their favorite food every day until they hate it. That's why I criticize save state usage, it's avoiding gameplay you once had passion for in the name of saving time. Obsessing about saving time in your leisure is not relaxing, and if you cannot accept fundamental aspects of playing these games such as restarting upon death/game over then play a game you do enjoy, once you stop having fun you can set it down and play or otherwise do anything else.

[Anonymous No.10278494]

>save states: used
>youtube replay: on another tab
>autofire: on
yep, it's gamer time

[Anonymous No.10278495]

>>10274916
>never intended
>they didnt have the capabilities
anyways, why do you care what the developers wanted? sometimes they do dumb shit like poor updates and changes to rereleases. only the mindless want to follow what others think anyways. if youre that much of a weak minded cuck you might as well go to /adv/ and take them seriously

[Anonymous No.10278497]

Save States are good for games where you can actually game over, it lets you practice the more difficult stages without having to go through everything before it all over again. This is great for some shmups and the more difficult platformers/action games.

[Anonymous No.10278553]

If you need save states to progress, maybe the game was not meant for you and you should play something else.
If you use save states and still have fun, carry on.

[Anonymous No.10278564]

>there are people who derive some measure of self worth by beating ancient video games
fuckin lol

[Anonymous No.10278569]

I don't find using save states fun.

If I need to use save states to make a game fun then the game isn't fun.

Why are you so fucking retarded op

[Anonymous No.10278573]

>>10277525
Mixing Megabloks with Lego was wrong and I will autistically beat you just like I did with my brother if you ever do that near me

[Anonymous No.10278578]

>>10275109
The cheaters are even more autistic

[Dave No.10278601]

>>10274951
>One genre where I will admit it kind of ruins the game is racing. Sometimes I get so into savescumming I save mid race. That is shameful, it's the crack cocaine stage of my savescumming addiction
disgusting
vile

[Anonymous No.10278770]

>>10278564
>can't enjoy self unless winning
>cheats
Many such cases.

[Anonymous No.10279107]

>>10277415
idk man never had any pc games crash on me in the golden years of DOOM/Quake/AoE2/etc.
seems to be an issue for nu-school like shitty buggy bethesda games or whatever the current cowadooty is

[Anonymous No.10279108]

>>10274916
just set rules for yourself
I sometimes make it harder on myself be replaying tough bosses until I can confidently beat them instead of getting lucky once
I don't see it as cheating to not farm lives and to not play the lead up level to the boss fight each try

just don't savescum during fights or in the middle of a level and you're not ruining the experience imo
you're just changing it for the better and remove the timesuck

[Anonymous No.10279121]

>>10278770
Do you enjoy losing?

[Anonymous No.10279123]

>>10277525
They're no worse than people who make these threads to begin with. If it's such a trivial thing, why does it cause so much insecurity?

[Anonymous No.10279126]

Ideally, of course you should save. Save states on the other hand save soo much time, and let’s be honest, there’s little time to play video games as an adult. There are some games that I prefer to use the classic save points, but even then I use save states near the save point to skip loading screens.

[Anonymous No.10279284]

Is this honestly such a controversial topic? I get that everyone has their opinions about save states, and perhaps some interesting ways of playing the game can be had by using them, like setting a limit on how many can be used per stage and try to play that way, but ultimately, it's a personal choice that doesn't affect anyone else in any way. Oh man! Anon doesn't approve of my stance, what will I ever do?!

[Anonymous No.10279512]

>>10274916
If you use savestates to skip gameplay when you fail/die, then you're a cheater. If you use them to skip cutscenes or just to save your game while you take a break, then it's fine.

[Anonymous No.10279551]

>>10274916
You’re an absolute bluepilled beta if you’re not living your own life based on your own volitions and ideals.

[Anonymous No.10279606]

The thing to keep in mind is that many of these old games were made thinking you'd spend tons of hours playing the game over and over. You'd own a handful of games and play them every day until you'd get good enough to beat them in general, and then you'd replay to show off or your parents would get you a new game.
In 2023 you have endless games at your fingertips. There's no point in sinking 40 hours or whatever into Rush'n Attack. Save states don't bother me, but like don't absolutely savescum. And by that I mean savestate between levels but don't savestate every ten seconds. You still get a challenge without all the bullshit.

[Anonymous No.10279928]

People who use save states, fast-forward and rewind don't want to actually play video games, they just want to consume content at a steady pace, which is why they deride any friction or challenge as "bad design" or a disrespect of their time.

[Anonymous No.10279968]

>>10279928
If there's an unskippable cutscene between the last checkpoint and a boss fight without any other gameplay in between, there's nothing wrong with using a savestate to skip the cutscene. There's several uses where save states don't ruin the core design of the game.

[Anonymous No.10280109]

>>10279928
And yet you'll never say that about Half-Life or Doom.

[Anonymous No.10280319]

>>10279928
no i just don't want to play the first part of a game a thousand times. It becomes a slog after a while

[Anonymous No.10280337]

>>10279606
>There's no point in sinking 40 hours or whatever into Rush'n Attack
Sure there is. It's fun.

[Anonymous No.10280339]

>>10279928
/thread

[Anonymous No.10280369]

>>10274996
This is a huge cope dude and I mean that genuinely, I doubt even you believe it

[Anonymous No.10280710]

>>10279121
Yes; It's the best way to learn.
>Take chances, make mistakes, get messy!

[Anonymous No.10280735]

If you don't use savestates you're just dumb. It's a game, nobody is judging you

[Anonymous No.10280752]

>>10279928
And I'll keep using save states to enjoy games at a steady pace. You can't stop me.

[Anonymous No.10280765]

>>10279968
>>10280109
>>10280319
>>10280735
>>10280752
Absolutely seething

[Anonymous No.10280770]

>>10280765
You can't stop me from doing it.

[Anonymous No.10280826]

>>10280770
Maybe self improvement just isn't for you...

[Anonymous No.10280836]

>>10280826
>Self improvement
>By playing a retro video game
Go out, touch some grass, lift some weights, eat a steak. Then remind yourself you can't stop me using save states.

[Anonymous No.10280868]

>>10280836
I'd suggest to drink some water and brush your teeth but you can't even follow rules in a game you choose to play.

[Anonymous No.10280950]

>>10280337
this

[Anonymous No.10280958]

>>10274916
Depends on the game. I always savestate in RPGs because I like seeing the different dialogue options that I normally wouldn't pick. The only other time it isn't game breaking is when there's a difficult section you can't get past but an easy section prior to that that you can no hitter, but is a huge time sink in getting to the difficult content

[Anonymous No.10280969]

>>10275873
the internal struggle is always the hardest..

[Anonymous No.10281078]

>>10277365
NTA but some popular minecraft tuber broke a world record by having RNG that would be impossible even on a cosmic scale, we're talking 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000x88 type of luck, IIRC it could have been caused by a mod pack installed but he never let anyone see it, but karl defends him by basically sucking his dick the entire time

[Anonymous No.10281085]

>>10274996
>Like a boxer giving up because it's bored of punching you.
Wouldn't that apply to adaptive difficulty in games?

[Anonymous No.10281101]

>>10278770
No one learns anything by having to sit through an unskippable cutscene each tome you die. Thank god for Wild Arms 3 Gimel Coins.

[Anonymous No.10281103]

>>10280765
Not an argument. Consesscion accepted.

[Anonymous No.10281248]

>>10281101
Your focus on consequences hinders your ability to identify and learn from the cause of them.
>>10281103
Your collective whining tacitly conceded to the contrary stance.
>they just want to consume content at a steady pace
>which is why they deride any friction or challenge as "bad design" or a disrespect of their time.
If you can't read a simple paragraph it only follows that you can't spell "concession" ya pseud juvie ignoramus

[Anonymous No.10281262]

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.

You didn't grow.
You didn't improve.
You took a shortcut and gained nothing.

You experienced a hollow victory.
Nothing was risked and nothing was gained.

It's sad that you don't know the difference.

[Anonymous No.10281281]

>>10274916
If you had played Star Wars for the NES, you wouldn't even be questioning it. You would just use the save states. You would remember leaving the NES paused while you were away, only to return and realize that it had heated up and frozen in your absence, forcing you to start again from the beginning.

[Anonymous No.10281303]

I'll use savestates in games which have a password system. Why yes, I COULD stick in the 50 letter password every time. Or I can just push save state and continue from where that password would have stuck me anyway.

[Anonymous No.10281318]

>>10274928
:( y do u h8?

[Anonymous No.10281418]

>>10281248
see >>10281103

[Anonymous No.10281427]

>>10281303
It takes one minute to enter a password from a notepad. It's fine, but c'mon man.
>>10281418
>Can't respond, deflects
Laziness begets laziness.
>which is why they deride any friction or challenge as "bad design" or a disrespect of their time.

[Anonymous No.10281957]

>>10274916
Honestly, it really depends on the game. The way I use it almost never really gives me a gameplay advantage besides just saving time.
My general rule of thumb is that I only use it if it either contains unskippable custcenes, an inefficient built-in save system or if it's just such a bad game that I'm not going to bind myself to its shitty design conventions.

The only game I can think of that I used savestates "excessively" in is probably Medabots Inifinity. But one playthrough of that game should make it OBVIOUS why!

[Anonymous No.10281965]

>>10280826
Spending hours mastering a video game is the opposite of self-improvement. This has to be a bit, but it probably isn't.

[Anonymous No.10281968]

>>10281965
There's no difference between spending 10k mastering a videogame and spending 10k mastering drawing, for example. Except maybe mastering a videogame is more likely to help you make money nowadays

[Anonymous No.10282016]

>>10281968
Absolutely delusional. Gaming carries many well-known health risks, and I can't find a single one for art (which is slightly surprising). The second claim isn't even worth debunking. That said, if you spend all your time drawing, that's not self-improvement either.

[Anonymous No.10282035]

>>10282016
>Gaming carries many well-known health risks, and I can't find a single one for art
Wouldn't art carry the same risks, namely from sitting/being physically inactive for long periods of time? And in either case, they're easy to avoid with a modicum of self control.

[Anonymous No.10282057]

>>10282035
I'd think so, but I can't find anything about it. I guess artists are more likely to get up and take a stretch break. Gaming can also cause/worsen hand, wrist, and eye injuries and mental health issues. It's plausible that there could be art-specific health issues from breathing in paint fumes or repetitive motions but I couldn't find anything.

Anyway, even if you play 10k hours of a game and escape unharmed, it's still not self-improvement. It's lost time that you could've spent doing something productive.

[Anonymous No.10282071]

>>10282057
Actually, it looks like repetitive strain injury is a risk of art after all. Bad Googling on my part. Still better for you than gaming.

[Anonymous No.10282081]

>>10282071
LOL and there's exposure to toxic chemicals. https://art.unc.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/344/2019/09/Artist-Beware-ch-1-Is-Your-Art-Killing-You.pdf.. I'm really remiss today.

[Anonymous No.10282182]

>>10282016
Being delusional tends to make for good artistry. Lots of people would claim the insane crunch to make Majora's Mask is what made it as strange and unique as it is.
>if you spend all your time drawing, that's not self-improvement either
Sure it is, assuming you're taking breaks to prevent strain. All practice is good practice, everything in moderation including moderation, etc.

You could easily refer to the act of grouping ghosts in Pac-Man as performance art if you really wanted to.

[Anonymous No.10282847]

Save states are based. I save scummed my way through Mega Man 1-7, and I go around telling people that I beat Mega Man 1-7.

[Anonymous No.10282965]

>>10282016
>I can't
Your inadequacies only support the argument that your opinion is irrelevant. Why do zoomies imagine their failures are proof of anything other than them failing?
>isn't even worth debunking
Only because you also fail at that.
There are plenty of legitimate arguments against anons claims. Why bother posting if you're not going to use any?

[Anonymous No.10283000]

>>10274968
I got spoiled by source ports so I save on the beginning of the level when playing original Doom either via DOSbox or ChocolateDoom.

[Anonymous No.10283291]

>>10276206
It's not that you didn't beat the game (although that is true). The hollowness comes from them being a crutch. Once you pop you can't stop.

>>10274934
>>10276758
If it was a good game, then there would be something to make it worth the backtrack to where you were.

I think the problem is we're conflating casual gaming with hardcore. You know that in a money match race between two people of otherwise equal skill you're putting money on the one who DOESN'T do this. We can all agree on this. Ergo there's no reason for this conversation to continue.

[Anonymous No.10283297]

>>10282965
I said I couldn't find anything to acknowledge that I had limited knowledge and give him an opportunity to show contrary evidence, which I ended up finding myself anyway.

[Anonymous No.10283306]

>>10277607
Using a walkthough wouldn't let them solve the puzzles in the example before.

The fun of the toy can come from completing it in one run, or it can come from having beaten every individual obstacle at least once. That might not be fun for you, but it is for others. It's not an obsession with winning. They could just play an easier game to do that. It's about spending time attempting an unbeaten challenge instead of retreading through things you've done already.

[Anonymous No.10283313]

>>10282182
Maybe. Not really relevant to whether video games are self-improvement (which they aren't, with possibly a few exceptions).

[Anonymous No.10283321]

>>10283291
Bro, nobody is doing money matches of Adventure Island. I ain't 13 years old anymore, and even at my age with so much more free time than my peers, sometimes I just can play 30 mins. I ain't playing money matches on my fucking single player games

[Anonymous No.10283389]

>>10274916
>not using savestates to keep high scores

[Anonymous No.10284225]

>>10283306
If you don't like the core mechanics, you don't like the game. Simple.

Choosing to ignore game rules after choosing to play any given title proves desire to consume the experience rather than genuinely engage with it. The walkthrough is suggested as a replacement, not a supplement.

Why have a timer at all if numbered obstacles aren't supposed to be played in sequence? Why not have each obstacle sold separately as a fidget toy? Here, have an excerpt from the official Tomy website.
>Race to beat the clock as you take on the Screwball Scramble through this topsy-turvey crazy maze!
>Set a time and see if you can go one better! Play solo or challenge your friends to see who can achieve the best time.
>set a time
>race to beat the clock
>through this maze
>achieve the best time
You are intentionally ignoring the point of the game because you don't actually care and just enjoy stimming. So I agree, you should play with something easier, such as a door stopper. Can't lose with that!

>>10283313
All games involves various expressions and levels of self improvement because you are the only person that can progress in any given game. Do you need World Class Track Meet as a comparison instead? Is Sonic's Schoolhouse more your speed?

I'll just say Rocksmith and be done with it. If you don't understand how you engage with self improvement by playing a game, you have no appreciation for gaming as a whole.

[Anonymous No.10284376]

>>10274916
you should take the don't post bait threads red pill. it helps you save time and not experience over 200 retarded replies but you have to play games instead, something the developer of 4chan never intended to be part of the website

[Anonymous No.10284513]

>>10274916
No, just do nofap for 2 weeks and you'll be rock hard

[Anonymous No.10284832]

>>10284225
First part: It's not like stimming. People save stating have a clear goal: navigate the maze, climb the stumps, etc. The goal is just different than the intended goal, which is to do those things at once. But they can still have fun with it. It's vaguely like skipping to your favorite part of a song: unintended, but still enjoyable and better than listening to any random noise.

Second part: self-improvement doesn't just mean improving at anything. Rocksmith is an exception because it teaches you a skill that's actually good for you: playing music. Music can improve mood, blood pressure, memory, and sleep quality. https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/keep-your-brain-young-with-music.. Gaming worsens those things, even blood pressure. https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/how-video-games-can-impact-your-heart-health, https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/the-health-effects-of-too-much-gaming-2020122221645.. I love gaming, but it's BAD for you.

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