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/vr/ - Retro Games

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Anonymous Tue Sep 5 06:18:13 2023 No.10218676 [Reply] [Original]

Are there any games where 50Hz PAL is actually better?

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 5 06:35:20 2023 No.10218708 >>10218676 A lot of the old C64 games. Basically any game made in Europe.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 5 06:39:47 2023 No.10218713 File: 70 KB, 872x872, 1691162688751459.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] If PAL has superior resolution And NTSC has superior timings/fps/speed Wouldn't PAL forced to 60hz be the best way to play games? (Given that it doesn't break things)

Anonymous Tue Sep 5 06:58:04 2023 No.10218747

>>10218713
PAL and NTSC used roughly the same amount if cable bandwidth. The refresh rate of each standard was based on the cycles of the electrical grids in which the standards were adopted.

The trouble with "PAL force to 60", is that none of the old games are going to really align with it. Old PAL games will be at the wrong frame rate to sync up in a pretty way, and old NTSC games will still need large borders if you plan to integer scale it onto a modern display. It's not that you're proposing anything new that breaks it, as much as you're kinda describing what is already happening when you emulate it without messing with the details.

The fact that 480 doesn't divide well into 1080 isn't something you can really get around, but most modern displays can at least be set to the same frame rates that both PAL and NTSC like to be at, if you're willing to give individual games their own display settings.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 5 07:00:36 2023 No.10218751 >>10218747 >>10218713 Oh, and another thing to deal with is that PAL has square pixels, and NTSC had pixels that are not square. Modern displays usually have square pixels. You really can't win sometimes.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 5 07:12:11 2023 No.10218771 >>10218676 No, the whole idea of pal being good at all is ridiculous

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 5 08:32:43 2023 No.10218865 >>10218713 In theory, yes. For a few ps1 games that run in higher resolution in PAL you could try it.

Anonymous Tue Sep 5 08:42:00 2023 No.10218868

>>10218676
I know of Fester's Quest (on the nes) where they fixed some issues in the PAL release to make it actually playable.
Game itself is still not so great though

Wipeout3 in PAL has the superior content included (too bad it's hurt again by refresh rate)

Speedrunners prefer F-ZeroX PAL because some tricks are easier to pull off (and 50FPS is still plenty smooth)

The US release of Pandora's Tower on the Wii had a pretty nasty bug that you could trigger near the end of the game. That is fixed for the PAL release.
There are more examples, but as a general rule you are better of playing the NTSC version of a game

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 5 08:48:25 2023 No.10218874 File: 363 KB, 705x432, 1693903692065.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] You can sword lunge through the glass wall at the end of The Arbiter in Halo 2 on the PAL version. Can't on NTSC.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 5 08:56:43 2023 No.10218879 >>10218676 Yes, 3 games.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 5 09:22:48 2023 No.10218894 >>10218713 PAL60 was a thing that existed in TVs in the 90s. Able to do both NTSC and PAL. I don't think game devs ever used it though.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 5 10:16:39 2023 No.10218943 >>10218894 Xbox had PAL60 support

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 5 10:29:06 2023 No.10218958 >>10218676 Dunno about better but there’s a few games on NES where the music is better played at 50hz

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 5 10:45:54 2023 No.10218976 >>10218894 >>10218943 Some Gamecube games ask if you want PAL60 on startup too. P.N.03 and Odama for example.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 5 13:09:40 2023 No.10219121 File: 60 KB, 200x200, 1688843999063379.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10218676 With a PAL you're never alone...

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 5 17:45:57 2023 No.10219695 >>10218894 Yeah but only on Dreamcast and onwards.

Anonymous Tue Sep 5 17:49:15 2023 No.10219702

>>10218676
>Are there any games where 50Hz PAL is actually better?
Seems like it would only matter for things like timings in game, some character behaviors, music, and lag. Most emulators would presumably have options to compensate for such nonsense and allow for upscaling on modern televisions.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 5 17:53:15 2023 No.10219710 >>10218713 PAL60 is really just the same resolutions and refresh rate as NTSC, the only difference is the color enconding is PAL

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 5 18:27:32 2023 No.10219768 >>10218676 Some games with varying framerates may have had an easier time hitting 50.

Anonymous Tue Sep 5 19:49:53 2023 No.10219960

>>10219710
>>10218865
Anon is not referring to PAL60.
What he's saying would be something you'd have to do in an emulator. Set the native resolution to PAL but run in 60hz refresh rate.
Technically the graphics would still be "correct" from a certain point of view.

Anonymous Tue Sep 5 20:12:22 2023 No.10220006

>>10218708
>any game made in Europe
Untrue, even European developers were using NTSC as the main version for their games once they hopped onto consoles. You're correct for C64 though, pre-Windows PCs was a completely different environment and PAL had no disadvantages there.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 5 20:16:07 2023 No.10220013 >>10220006 There are some games that play better with PAL on say, PS1. Invasion from beyond comes to mind.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 5 20:21:33 2023 No.10220021 >>10218976 Quite a few do actually, like Double Dash and Mario Smash Football

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 5 20:53:31 2023 No.10220108 >>10218676 ico and shadow of the colossus

>>	sage Tue Sep 5 21:09:46 2023 No.10220152 >>10218676 Midievil 1 and 2 are sped up in America

Anonymous Tue Sep 5 21:15:50 2023 No.10220161

Use pal 60 whenever possible, because those versions of the game came out later and had bug fixes and extra content
Pal 60 ps2:
Blood will tell
Bujingai
Castlevania Lament
Clock Tower 3
Contra Shattered Soldier
Contra Neo
Fatal Frame 2
Gradius V
Haunting Ground
Ico
Maximo 2 Zen
Onimusha 2
Onimusha 3
R-Type 5 Final
Shadow of the Colossus
Silent Hill 3
Sub Rebellion
The Nightmare Before Christmas
Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution
ZOE 2nd

Anonymous Tue Sep 5 21:20:29 2023 No.10220170

Pal 60 gamecube :
Bloody Roar 3 Primal Fury
Chibi Robo
Eternal Darkness
Fire Emblem 9 Path Radiance
Geist
Killer 7
Mario Power Tennis
Mario Strikers
Metal Gear 1 Twin Snakes
Metroid Prime 1
Metroid Prime 2
P.N. 03
Paper Mario 2 TTYD
Sonic Adventure 2
Soul Calibur 2
Star Fox Assault
Timesplitters 3 Future Perfect
Viewtiful Joe 1
Viewtiful Joe 2
Wario ware inc mega party
Zelda four swords
Zelda Wind Waker

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 5 22:46:03 2023 No.10220340 >>10218676 rareware games starting from DKC (the fact that they're based on eu helped) spyro trilogy, crash trilogy on psx

Anonymous Tue Sep 5 23:17:46 2023 No.10220428

>>10218894

I realised as an adult that the reason I don't remember PAL being shitty is because as a poorfag wit ha modchipped PS1 in the 90s, all the games I played were import/pirate copies from NTSC regions. Needed RGB capable SCART cable to play them properly otherwise they came up in black and white. But using the right cable you got the best of both worlds.

One thing I'm not sure about is how old CRT TVs actually worked in terms of resolution though- Were displays for PAL regions actually higher resolution/lines compared to NTSC counterparts? I feel like you did get a sharper picture this way compared to a "native" NTSC display.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 5 23:44:08 2023 No.10220490 >>10218676 I heard Digimon World 3 actually has an ending on PAL, or something like that.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 5 23:45:51 2023 No.10220493 >>10220428 Yes they were DVDs were actually a lot better in PAL regions

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 5 23:47:33 2023 No.10220497 >>10218676 The exact moment I could leave PAL behind for anything retro, I did. I never ever looked back.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 07:34:36 2023 No.10221218 >>10220493 how so?

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 13:14:08 2023 No.10221638 >>10218751 >PAL has square pixels, and NTSC had pixels that are not square Is that why NTSC game characters look thin on my PAL tv?

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 13:21:24 2023 No.10221650 >>10220161 http://www.benoitren.be/60hz-palps2.html

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 13:26:02 2023 No.10221660 >>10221218 They are 576i instead of 480i and they run at 50hz which displays 24fps without the judder you would often get from the NTSC 60hz Also the colours weren’t washed out like NTSC Unfortunately for games, obviously it’s worse in most ways

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 13:31:28 2023 No.10221675 >>10221660 but that only matters if the source material is also made with PAL equipment, otherwise there is ghosting

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 13:34:15 2023 No.10221684 >>10220161 >>10220170 Here is one for Xbox: https://trailblazer34.blogspot.com/2016/08/xbox-titles-with-pal60-support-version-1.html

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 13:40:52 2023 No.10221703 >>10218713 >Wouldn't PAL forced to 60hz be the best way to play games? When it does work, it's great, see Rayman 1 on PS >>10218865

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 13:48:32 2023 No.10221725 >>10220006 >>10218708 Name 5 examples.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 13:54:32 2023 No.10221745 >>10221675 All media is 24fps I’m not sure why you think what it’s made for matters Why do you think there’s ghosting

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 13:56:50 2023 No.10221753 >>10219960 That’s not how that works PAL is 50hz PAL60 is 480i The two can’t be combined to get 576i at 60hz

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 15:05:11 2023 No.10221915 >>10218751 What do you mean I can't win? I'm white.

Anonymous Wed Sep 6 15:11:11 2023 No.10221926

>>10220428
Nigga, I had a modded PS1 and a metric ton of NTSC games from bali and I never had this issue. You are imagining this shit. The only shit thing about the US games was that stupid interlacing shit. What I want to know is how seppos think that 9/11 was done by their government when their government can't even standardise their own mind control boxes properly.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 15:32:26 2023 No.10221960 >>10218676 No. On top of the lower framerate, 50hz on a CRT looks like a strobelight

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 15:34:43 2023 No.10221968 >>10221960 Really? I've never seen a 50hz CRT IRL (never went to Europe before HD TVs were standard) but it sounds like the kind of thing that's apparent on camera but not in person (like street lights)

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 15:41:18 2023 No.10221979 >>10219702 A lot of games were released later in Europe, so devs had more time to fix a lot of bug fixes

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 6 15:48:43 2023 No.10221993 >>10221968 It's definitely noticeable in person if you've been using 60+hz displays, especially flatscreens, for the past 20 years

Anonymous Wed Sep 6 16:37:36 2023 No.10222112

>>10218676
Every single game that got optimized for it, because that means the games ran at proper speed but at higher resolution and with less frame drops (system needing to draw only 50 frames means it has 12.5% more CPU time per second). And if you are using composite, it will end up having vastly superior color.

There was also a lot of Commodore hardware where the PAL versions were also clocked higher.

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