/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.10214712]

Realistically speaking, how feasible would it be?

[Anonymous No.10214726]

Environments are too big.

[Anonymous No.10214749]

Hyrule Field, but if it Crash Bandicoot level.

Think about it. Imagine crossing from Kokiri Forest to the castle.

Dungeons would be 2D platformers ala Zelda 2.

[Anonymous No.10214751]

We had this thread last year.

[Anonymous No.10214801]

>>10214712
zelda if she king's field

[Anonymous No.10214829]

you'd compare it to silent hill on ps1 if you were serious

[Anonymous No.10214845]

>>10214712
It would be sharper, higher resolution, higher framerate, and play better too.

[Anonymous No.10214873]

>>10214845
Nice enclosed room with limited geometry.

[Anonymous No.10214949]

>>10214845
this looks like shit

[Anonymous No.10214953]

>>10214845
What's this from?

[Anonymous No.10214970]

>>10214712
>every location is pre rendered
>top down hyrule field
>fmv cutscenes
>voice acting
>turn BASED combat and leveling
What could have been...

[Anonymous No.10214975]

>>10214845
Woah I like Zelda now.

[Anonymous No.10215008]

>>10214845
Better sound as well

[Anonymous No.10215052]

>>10214749
Unironically sounds kino

[Anonymous No.10215074]

>>10214726
Divide them up.

[Anonymous No.10215078]

>>10214845
There is no way that is native PS1 resolution.

[Anonymous No.10215094]

>>10214712
All you have to do is slap some fog on that bad boy and go to town with expanding it.

[Anonymous No.10215110]

>>10215074

[Anonymous No.10215117]

>>10214712
wouldn't really be a problem to develop, but since the PS1 had a lot of better games then it would go unnoticed

[Anonymous No.10215130]

>>10214712
ALttP would make more sense. The MSU-1 version shows how good a CD upgrade would've been, complete with FMV cutscenes https://youtu.be/8AKSoDFUSKA

That said... OoT would probably be doable as well, but they might have to scale it down a bit and probably tone down certain lighting effects or higher poly models. PS1 did have some very advanced games but I've not seen most of OoT since I never really played it

[Anonymous No.10215148]

>>10214845
64sisters... our response?

Also that looks fucking rad, source?

[Anonymous No.10215163]

>>10214751
He's probably banking on people forgetting.

[Anonymous No.10215291]

>>10215148
It's a lame bare bones 3d platforming tech demo using zelda models. If it was running all the processing and shit of the real game it wouldn't be that smooth.

[Anonymous No.10215329]

>>10214712
It'd work, with some concessions.

[Anonymous No.10215338]

>>10215148
It never happened

[Anonymous No.10215353]

>>10215148
>sisters
Kill yourself cancerous subhuman faggot

[Anonymous No.10215471]

>>10214845
Now show me something as big as Hyrule Field running on a real PS1

[Anonymous No.10215535]

>>10214845
What is the project name?
capcha:prank

[Anonymous No.10215565]

>>10214845
Why is he so slow? I thought the PSX was way more powerul.

[Anonymous No.10215570]

>>10215148
It makes OoT look a little gay and soi-ish.

[Anonymous No.10215617]

>>10215353
You first

[Anonymous No.10215641]

>>10215471
Why do you think Hyrule Field is impossible on PS1? There's nothing about it that wouldn't fit into memory, and PS1 is pretty much the fillrate king of that generation.

Hyrule Field isn't really that high of a polygon count because the N64 can get away with drawing very large polygons without distortion issues. So on PS1 you'd just need to subidivide the polygons as they get closer to the camera to avoid warping issues. Throw in tricks like what Spyro does and it would be pretty doable, especially if you're only targeting 20fps like the N64 does.

[Anonymous No.10215654]

>>10215641
>So on PS1 you'd just need to subidivide the polygons as they get closer to the camera to avoid warping issues
Exactly. While on the N64 you can just keep using less polygons because huge ass ones aren't a problem. I don't remember anything as big on the PS1

[Anonymous No.10215680]

>>10215654
And again, so what? You could still get away with large polygons at a distance on PS1, it's just as you get closer you need to subdivide. That's not hard nor is it some crazy thing the PS1 can't do. We're not talking about having to draw hundreds of thousands of polygons per frame at 60fps here.

We're talking about maybe 2000-3000 per frame at 20fps tops. That's about 40,000 to 60,000 polygons per second, which there's PS1 games that pull that off and more. Launch games were hitting that mark. Hell even Saturn is able to hit that mark. Just because you haven't seen it on PS1 doesn't mean it's impossible.

[Anonymous No.10215684]

>>10214845
Why does the movement look so weird?

[Anonymous No.10215691]

>>10215680
>Just because you haven't seen it on PS1 doesn't mean it's impossible
The fact that not a single game is even close in terms of level size means it's obviously impossible.

[Anonymous No.10215716]

>>10215691
>The fact that not a single game is even close in terms of level size means it's obviously impossible.
That's retarded logic and you know it. If Saturn can pull this off:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpcjkDDLoXM&t=4m55s

then PS1 should be able to pull off something like Hyrule Field easily.

[Anonymous No.10215797]

>>10215691
*ahem*
https://youtu.be/RR7jZgZwbIU?si=Qdqt7oiKvEyIuTKk

[Anonymous No.10215820]

>>10214970
and thank GOD we didn't get any of that!

[Anonymous No.10215825]

>>10214970
>>10215820
>I want more generic ALttP clone shit or jarpag shovelware trash
Play literally any other game on Playstation.

[Anonymous No.10215930]

>>10215716
Saturn renders flat ground surface as a Mode 7-like background tile on a dedicated video processor. PS1 has no such functionality.

[Anonymous No.10216335]

>>10215716
>>10215680
>>10215641
>>10214845
>y-you just have to BELIEVE! WHY WON'T YOU BELIEVEEEEEE!
Kek. Get bent sega troon

[Anonymous No.10216372]

>>10215797
Nigga are you kidding me? This is Daytona USA levels of terrain pop in

[Anonymous No.10216408]

>loading screens for every single area
>the entire world wobbling
>Significantly reduced room sizes but replaced with fake pre rendered backgrounds to look like you're in a huge room

It would be awful.

[Anonymous No.10216412]

>>10214845
This kills the nintentranny

[Anonymous No.10216413]

>>10215641
He wasn’t expecting a response like that

[Anonymous No.10216418]

>>10214845
Sonysisters, surely it can do the outdoors as well, right?

[Anonymous No.10216431]

>>10215716
Sure given the following limitations

1) horribly close draw distance like silent hills or the 1st person mode in MGS.
2) if you are lucky enough to somehow get the spyro engine then you can draw much further, but anything past 100ft would be untextured single colored triangles, kinda like a 32x game

Pick one

>>10214712
Realistically? Not at all since:
1) Nintendo would never release it on competing hardware
2) The competition wasn't skilled enough to make anything closely similar to it (at the time).

[Anonymous No.10216446]

>>10216372
That looks quite alright if it was a Saturn release

[Anonymous No.10216457]

>>10215329
Please stop spamming this poo-poo in a Zelda thread. It is nothing like the superior Zelda games.

[Anonymous No.10216462]

>>10214845
And with proper colored lights and additive blending, thankfully the 3DS games fixed that.

[Anonymous No.10216470]

>>10215641
>you just need to do all this extra shit to get it to work
sure it'll be possible but it wouldn't be the same or better it'll be different

[Anonymous No.10216516]

>>10216372
Is that the same engine as Carmageddon? It looks very similar at least.

[Anonymous No.10216585]

>>10215930
It's not using that though.

[Anonymous No.10216591]

>>10216372
The car looks like it's floating

[Anonymous No.10216698]

>>10215716
>If the saturn can do small (indoor) spaces in a modern tech demo, the surely the ps1 can do hyrule field

Did I read that right? Jesus christ what a bunch of monkeys in here.

[Anonymous No.10218028]

>>10215471
>>10215641
>>10215654
>>10216470
>>10215691
>>10215930
>>10216431
>>10216698
?

[Anonymous No.10218036]

>>10218028
The grid ruins the illusion that those are the same size.

[Anonymous No.10218043]

>>10218036
Completely relative to the size of the player character. Your point?

[Anonymous No.10218052]

>>10218043
uuurr....bigger polygons errg....more power neeeded for big polygon!!!

[Anonymous No.10218068]

>>10218043
The Spyro map is way smaller.

[Anonymous No.10218106]

>>10218068
Irrelevant. Small maps can look huge when the player character is properly scaled for it.
See >>10218043.

[Anonymous No.10218108]

>>10215930
You honestly are stupid enough to think every flat floor on Saturn is a VDP2 plane? There's limits to that and that Unreal Demo isn't using it. It's all VDP1 Quads.
>>10216431
Again, all you need to really do is subdivide polygons as they get closer. There's nothing really stopping the PS1 from rendering a model like Hyrule Field, it's only about 1500 Polygons. The main issue you'd have is texture warping, which to deal with that you subdivide the polygons as they get closer to the camera. You can see this in action in these Saturn demos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZpa0ABrypc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iv4dm7daQs8

On PS1 this would be easier to do and look better because you actually have texture coordinates unlike the Saturn.
>>10216698
>small indoor spaces
Did you not see the later part of the demo when it gets outside?

[Anonymous No.10218119]

>>10218106
It's a small map with walls everywhere to limit the draw distance.
>>10218108
>There's nothing really stopping the PS1 from rendering a model like Hyrule Field
Except the hardware.

[Anonymous No.10218149]

>>10218119
>to limit the draw distance
Hyrule Field is designed the same way, with the added bonus of having smaller texture resolution, running at 20fps and being emptier overall.

[Anonymous No.10218154]

>>10218149
You can see way further out than any Spyro map.

[Anonymous No.10218170]

>>10214712
>Awful draw distence
>16 second loading screens
>probably need 3 disks to complete
>15 fps in big areas

[Anonymous No.10218182]

>>10214712
Hyrule Field would be a lot foggier and draw in with ugly tiles, and there's the obvious wobble and lack of texture filtering, but it could definitely happen.

[Anonymous No.10218183]

>>10214845
WHEN

[Anonymous No.10218184]

>>10218154
It's 1600 polygons in its entirety. It has headroom to spare for subdivision and tesselation to mitigate wobbling, especially if it uses the same tiny 4kb textures as the N64. As I said, scaling is not the issue - it's polycount. And the PSX can handle that just fine.
Tekken 2 on PS1 has about 1300 Polygons per player model. The game draws 2 of these models at once, so that would be about 2600 polygons per frame. But let's assume half of them are culled, bringing us back down to 1300 polygons per frame. The game runs at 60fps so that would be about 78,000 polygons per second. If we were to target 20fps like Ocarina of Time, that would give us about 3,900 polygons per frame to work with. That's enough to draw all of Hyrule Field in its entirety, twice over, and then some. Most devs simply chose performance over draw distance.
https://youtu.be/dixx8iTREMg?t=12524

[Anonymous No.10218187]

>>10218149
You're ignoring how much better Hyrule Field looks than everything posted. There is no pop in or LOD artifacts on the main geometry and fog is used purely as a graphical effect to give a better impression of lighting and how the atmosphere affects things to give a better impression of distance. The field has a whole array of different lights set up to control the specific color of everything as the time of day progresses and as a result the impression you get of the landscape is better than most modern 'triple A' games. Whatever you end up doing to replicate this on a less suitable system is going to look like vomit in comparison.

[Anonymous No.10218197]

>>10218187
So now we're moving the goal posts from "PS1 can't handle Hyrule Field!" to "It wouldn't look the same!"? Of course it wouldn't look the same, the hardware is different after all. That doesn't mean it would look bad or unacceptable.

[Anonymous No.10218201]

>>10218184
>As I said, scaling is not the issue - it's polycount
There are no games with maps of that size on Playstation. It's obviously a system limitation. The console always struggles with long draw distances and large environments.

[Anonymous No.10218210]

>>10218182
I am 100% on board for that, it would make hyrule look the way it is, a drab empty nothingness.
this anon is right>>10214749replace each instance of hyrule field with levels that begin and end with each other area of the game

[Anonymous No.10218214]

>>10218119
>Except the hardware.
So being an expert on the hardware care to explain the exact technical limitation that prevents it?
>>10218201
>There are no games with maps of that size on Playstation. It's obviously a system limitation.
The Saturn demos posted earlier have the same level of draw distance ast hat Jet Force Gemini clip. If Saturn can do that then the PS1 definitely can.

[Anonymous No.10218218]

>>10218197
>That doesn't mean it would look bad or unacceptable

The whole point is that it would obviously look much worse, to a point where it would miss most of the beauty that the scene accomplishes, and hence the PS1 genuinely wouldn't be able to handle that. Replacing the field's largely consistent visuals with the techniques we can observe the PS1 needs to use to 'fake' them by avoiding the display of any significant amount of distant geometry, which the N64 just crunches through, would result in the PS1 basically not really handling it.

[Anonymous No.10218224]

>>10218214
>If Saturn can do that then the PS1 definitely can
Considering the Powerslave port to PS1 drastically downsizes maps and puts up walls everywhere to reduce draw distance, I doubt it.

[Anonymous No.10218227]

>>10218214
>The Saturn demos posted earlier have the same level of draw distance
They all look like ass in comparison. All the distant objects look blocky and have shitty looking textures, it's very different from seeing these N64 games where you can see so much coherent artistic detail even hundreds of feet away.

[Anonymous No.10218234]

>>10218218
>The whole point is that it would obviously look much worse
We don't know that. If the PS1 demos that were posted here earlier are any indication of how a PS1 version would look, it would probably be more than acceptable.

>Replacing the field's largely consistent visuals with the techniques we can observe the PS1 needs to use to 'fake' them by avoiding the display of any significant amount of distant geometry, which the N64 just crunches through, would result in the PS1 basically not really handling it.
I think you've completely misunderstood what's being described here. The issue isn't that we're trying to avoid displaying a significant amount of distant geometry. That's not the problem as the N64 data has a very low polygon count to begin with to deal with the N64's own bottlenecks when it comes 3D rendering performance.

The issue is that on PS1 that kind of model will start to have severe texture warping issues as you move around. So to deal with it you have an LOD system were you subdivide those large polygons into smaller polygons as they get closer to the camera, thus increasing the polygon count and reducing the texture warping. The PS1 has more than enough polygon crunching power and fill rate to handle that kind of technique.

Hyrule Field is only about 1500 Polygons total, for the entire thing. And you'll NEVER see the entire field in a single frame, at most only 1/4-1/3 of it. Even if we see half of it, that's only 750 Polygons, if we were to subdivide that up to the point of tripling the count, that would only be 2,250 polygons. At 20fps that would be 45,000 Polygons per second. That's more than doable on PS1. Launch games were doing that and more.

[Anonymous No.10218236]

People are in such denial of the PS1 here. It could be downgraded and fogged and bogged to work, sure, but long draw distances are too expensive to process on it and you can't come close to a 1:1 job. It just isn't proper 3D hardware. The N64 basically had a prototype of modern day hardware acceleration where you could just stretch out a texture or texture pattern across a vast field at practically no expense. This is very expensive on PS1. It has to overdraw to do this.

[Anonymous No.10218240]

>>10218187
The original question was "can the PSX run it" and the answer is yes.
I don't care about what you think looks better.
>>10218201
Despite the 2mb limitation it's entirely capable of preloading environments.
And again, for the last time, scaling is not the issue. See Twisted Metal 2 and the Spyro games.

[Anonymous No.10218241]

>>10218201
Is this game good?

[Anonymous No.10218242]

>>10218224
That's more to just bring up performance in general. The Saturn game chugs pretty hard in some of those spots.
>>10218227
>They all look like ass in comparison. All the distant objects look blocky and have shitty looking textures, it's very different from seeing these N64 games where you can see so much coherent artistic detail even hundreds of feet away.
And that's more due to how Saturn renders stuff. It has no concept of texture coordinates so it has to render the entire texture to the polygon at all times. PS1 however has texture coordinates so as it subdivides it can use smaller parts of a larger texture and not look janky and blocky as a result.

[Anonymous No.10218250]

>>10218234
Alright wiseguy faggot. Point out a game that has such a distance at Zelda's level of modeling and and activity on screen without fogging and tiling out the ass, or make your demo, or shut the fuck up. It's so easy, right?

[Anonymous No.10218252]

>>10218236
> but long draw distances are too expensive to process on it and you can't come close to a 1:1 job. It just isn't proper 3D hardware.
How are the distances too expensive to render when at most we're talking about rendering 1500 Polygons at 20fps? Tekken does more than that at 60fps. There's nothing magical about drawing 1500 polygons in a landscape vs a character model. The system is going to draw them just as quickly regardless. The main issue you'd run into on PS1 is texture warping, and to mitigate that you'd use subdivision.

[Anonymous No.10218253]

>>10218236
>at practically no expense*
*unstable 20fps

[Anonymous No.10218254]

>>10218241
Yes.
>>10218242
>The Saturn game chugs pretty hard in some of those spots.
Even with the downgrades the Playstation version runs significantly worse.

[Anonymous No.10218262]

>>10218252
>Tekken does more than that at 60fps
Tekken is literally a tiny flat ground and two models.

[Anonymous No.10218264]

>>10218241
It's a rare collectathon with goldeneye aiming and performance
it's pretty bad

[Anonymous No.10218267]

>>10218253
I mean that particular part of the rendering, not including hills and other scenic geometry, vegetation, models, logic etc dumbfuck.

[Anonymous No.10218270]

>>10218264
He says while posting pure shovelware.

[Anonymous No.10218271]

>>10218252
Show your game then. Show your PS1 game with a Hyrule Field-esque scene with no obscene fogging and tiling and distant geometry on screen. Please. There are thousands. Surely ONE pulled off this one neat trick some faggot on 4chan posited.

[Anonymous No.10218278]

>>10218267
ok retard
next youll say the map being flat is somehow less taxing or some other dumb shit like that

[Anonymous No.10218284]

>>10218278
>fog and geometry cutoff clearly present

[Anonymous No.10218287]

>>10218284
the bottom row is the n64 version, retard

[Anonymous No.10218289]

>>10218254
>Even with the downgrades the Playstation version runs significantly worse.
Then it's probably a bad port. When it comes to rendering fillrate and 3D math performance PS1 easily outclasses the Saturn.
>>10218262
>Tekken is literally a tiny flat ground and two models.
Polygons are polygons. The GPU and GTE don't care if they're in a character model or a landscape model. It will render them all the same.
>>10218271
Why do I need to make a demo for you when this game >>10218264 exists?

[Anonymous No.10218294]

>>10218289
gouraud shades/no textures in the distance. Neat trick though. Probably should be used in an Ocarina port.

[Anonymous No.10218296]

>>10218284
really fog and geometry cutoff is mostly an n64 issue

[Anonymous No.10218298]

>>10218278
>bad port is an argument
That game is a simpler render than Ocarina, though.

[Anonymous No.10218301]

>>10218294
>no textures
Despite having no mipmapping the PSX was capable of rendering separate, smaller versions of textures at a distance as a rendering workaround.

[Anonymous No.10218302]

>>10218296
Not really.

[Anonymous No.10218305]

>>10214712
But why? What would be different? Changing controllers? You can do that on a PC.

[Anonymous No.10218307]

>>10218302
When it needs to render at PS1 level polygon counts it is.

[Anonymous No.10218318]

>>10218307
N64 doesn't need as many polygons. It renders larger environments with less.

[Anonymous No.10218336]

>>10218270
What game did he post?

[Anonymous No.10218340]

>>10218336
Some European only PSX game called Terracon. Literally only ever comes up in threads where the Playstation's draw distance is mentioned.

[Anonymous No.10218341]

>>10218318
It can get away with drawing large polygons sure, but then you can end up with a very flat/blocky look. Which you see in Mario 64, and to an extent, Ocarina of Time. If you want more detail in those environments, like bumps, dips, more gradual curves to the hills, etc. you need more polygons. PS1 can handle this pretty well and we see it in games like Spyro, Terracon, etc.

On N64 though when you do that the frame rate either goes to shit or you need to lower the draw distance. Granted a part of that is due to the poor tools and libraries Nintendo provided to devs at the time, but the other part is due to the memory and bus contention issues the hardware inherently has.
>>10218336
Terracon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSzTCMyfcmk
>>10218340
>Literally only ever comes up in threads where the Playstation's draw distance is mentioned.
Seems like a good reason to post it. It has a draw distance that's more than on par with what we see in Ocraina of Time with a far more complex geometry. Pretty much torpedoes the argument that PS1 couldn't handle Hyrule Field.

[Anonymous No.10218348]

>>10218340
Thanks

[Anonymous No.10218350]

>>10218341
>It has a draw distance that's more than on par with what we see in Ocraina of Time with a far more complex geometry.
Not even close to reality. But the fact that the game only exists as console war fodder should tell you how bad it is.

[Anonymous No.10218351]

>>10218340
And it doesn't count as a display of the system's technical capabilities because...?

[Anonymous No.10218359]

>>10218350
>Not even close to reality.
The draw distance is pretty much just as good if not better than Ocarina of Time. And there's a lot more hills, rounded bumps, dips, etc. than what Hyrule Field has. Seems like a pretty good show piece that the system can handle the same kind of draw distance to render something like Hyrule Field.
>But the fact that the game only exists as console war fodder should tell you how bad it is.
Since when does that have anything to do with if a system can render a long draw distances or not?

[Anonymous No.10218361]

>>10218236
The N64 was made by the people who invented OpenGL, wasn't it? They had a lot of experience with 3D.

[Anonymous No.10218362]

>>10218341
Distant things look like ass here in a worse way than they do in Spyro. N64 is clearly superior at displaying big areas with actual clarity.

[Anonymous No.10218369]

>>10218362
>Distant things look like ass here in a worse way than they do in Spyro.
At 240p on a CRT you're not going to notice.
>N64 is clearly superior at displaying big areas with actual clarity.
N64 is known for being a blurry mess when it comes to picture quality. Factor in the additional level of blurriness from Composite on a CRT and I doubt you would be able to tell the difference.

[Anonymous No.10218370]

>>10218359
>Since when does that have anything to do with if a system can render a long draw distances or not?
I just think it's funny how the only example is some dogshit shovelware game that looks awful and still has a noticeably shorter draw distance.

[Anonymous No.10218375]

>>10218370
>still has a noticeably shorter draw distance.
How is it shorter?

[Anonymous No.10218414]

>>10218370
I think the fact it is a shitty shovelware game adds credence to the argument. If literally-who can manage to do it on a not-important-shovelware game, then it seems even more likely a competent game studio could too, especially if they're working on something serious.

[Anonymous No.10218418]

>>10218414
Terracon is a pretty good game and really not shovelware. Probably one of the best showcases of what the ps1 is capable of really. I strongly recommend people play it

[Anonymous No.10218424]

>>10218414
>then it seems even more likely a competent game studio could too
But they never did.

[Anonymous No.10218436]

>>10214845
Not without Z- Buffer and loading screens, limited visibility, also the twisted hallway presented both in OOT and Majoras would never be achieved without real time precision coordinates.
The Hookshot mechanic wouldn't even work, links animations would have to be cut a lot , dynamic music wouldnt work also , reduced level design and size and much less verticality . Everything would be condensed to a smaller form factor and divided in lots of pieces with loading screens.

[Anonymous No.10218446]

>>10215094
ENGLISH TRANSLATION PATCH
FUCKING WHEN

[Anonymous No.10218485]

>>10218424
>But they never did.
So? If even one dev did it that's all that matters, as it proves the hardware can do it.
>>10218436
>also the twisted hallway presented both in OOT and Majoras would never be achieved without real time precision coordinates.
Why?
>The Hookshot mechanic wouldn't even work
Why?
>links animations would have to be cut a lot
Why?
>dynamic music wouldnt work also
Why?
>reduced level design and size and much less verticality
Why?
>Everything would be condensed to a smaller form factor and divided in lots of pieces with loading screens.
You realize the N64 has to load stuff into RAM as well too right? It can't just access the ROM like previous systems could. It's far too slow to do that.

[Anonymous No.10218514]

>>10218341
>>10218340
>>10218264
That's a great looking game with all the Swanstation fixins.

[Anonymous No.10218521]

>>10218436
>The Hookshot mechanic wouldn't even work
What? But the grappling hook in Tenchu works just like the Hookshot.

[Anonymous No.10218537]

>>10218485
>If even one dev did it that's all that matters, as it proves the hardware can do it.
Not one dev ever did it.

[Anonymous No.10218568]

>>10218436
>dynamic music wouldnt work
Yes it would. The PSX can have either sampled music or redbook audio, both methods of which can have dynamic changes. See: Soul Reaver.
>loading screens
See: Soul Reaver again.

[Anonymous No.10218570]

>>10218537
Now him but you do know the N64 also had pop-in and LOD as well, right?

[Anonymous No.10218573]

>>10218537
That's not pop-in, that's an LOD system. Ocarina of Time does that too with entities as they come into view, and you don't even have to zoom the camera out to see it. Boulders, Signs, bushes, characters, etc. will just poof into existence when you get close enough. You can even see some objects switch from being 2D to 3D.

[Anonymous No.10218578]

>>10218568
>Yes it would. The PSX can have either sampled music or redbook audio, both methods of which can have dynamic changes
You can also do ADPCM streams that can have proper looping support and what not. Saturn had that in the form of ADX which was used in stuff like Grandia, Burning Rangers, etc. and had pretty dynamic audio effects. Later on Dreamcast it was used to do dynamic music in PSO.

[Anonymous No.10218587]

>>10218573
It doesn't do this with the level geometry though. There is no LOD on the landscape, only on the actor entities that require additional per frame logic to be run for them.

[Anonymous No.10218589]

>>10218573
Entire buildings and objects popping into existence feet away from the player is pop in by any objective measure. The game shows the limitations of the hardware with the aggressive LOD, pop in and every level being comprised of hills to avoid longer draw distances.

[Anonymous No.10218602]

>>10215716
People need to stop shilling this as a real example of Saturn prowess given it's not being made to any standards or deadlines that real developers at the time would have had to deal with.

[Anonymous No.10218607]

>>10218587
>There is no LOD on the landscape, only on the actor entities that require additional per frame logic to be run for them.
The LOD doesn't appear to be happening on the landscape in Terracon either. The hills and mountains don't really change, just the entities. ,
>>10218589
> The game shows the limitations of the hardware with the aggressive LOD, pop in and every level being comprised of hills to avoid longer draw distances.
Or it just shows that the developers made different choices about what's an entity and what's not an entity. The landscape in general has a lot more going on than Hyrule Field .The hills are a lot more intricate with more of them in general, there's water with waves, etc. On top of that there's a lot more entities as well. If you made the terrain more flat and boring like most of Hyrule field you probably wouldn't need that aggressive of an LOD system.

[Anonymous No.10218612]

>>10218602
>People need to stop shilling this as a real example of Saturn prowess given it's not being made to any standards or deadlines that real developers at the time would have had to deal with.
If it runs on the actual system then it counts. The dev has even stated if making that was his full time job he would have had it done years ago and probably made more progress in a much shorter amount of time.

[Anonymous No.10218623]

>>10218607
>If you made the terrain more flat and boring like most of Hyrule field you probably wouldn't need that aggressive of an LOD system
That kind of environment is clearly impossible on Playstation. This is your only example of anything close and it's a series of hills to avoid long draw distances and has one of the most aggressive LOD systems ever implemented into a video game.

[Anonymous No.10218648]

>>10218623
>That kind of environment is clearly impossible on Playstation.
So drawing less polygons is some how impossible?
> This is your only example of anything close and it's a series of hills to avoid long draw distances and has one of the most aggressive LOD systems ever implemented into a video game.
Hyrule field has hills and walls to prevent you form seeing too much at a given time as well.

Sounds more to me like you're just upset that there actually is an example of PS1 doing a long draw distance and you don't want to admit you're wrong. So you're grasping at whatever straws you can to try and discount it because you have no idea how any of this shit actually works.

[Anonymous No.10218650]

>>10218607
>The hills and mountains don't really change, just the entities.
You must be blind then, because you can clearly see the hills losing detail in
>>10218537

[Anonymous No.10218654]

>>10218650
I see more lighting being applied and more detailed textures being used but not dramatic changes in the actual geometry.

[Anonymous No.10218656]

>>10218612
Games domestically released on the Saturn also ran on the actual system.

[Anonymous No.10218679]

>>10218648
Compare this to the low poly building in Terracon popping into existence at 30 feet away. There is simply no way this could run on Playstation.

[Anonymous No.10218694]

>>10218252
>How are the distances too expensive to render when at most we're talking about rendering 1500 Polygons at 20fps?

Now you assume the game only does the terrain, and nothing else.
Add a character model (sitting on a horse), with an enemy or 2 on screen, some bushes and trees and suddenly it's no longer 1500 polygons.

Also hyrule field is not the reason the game was locked at 20fps, it's the denser areas with plenty of shit going on that made them do that decision.
Personally would have prefered if they aimed 30, and accepting (big) dips to the 20s


>>10218289
>Polygons are polygons. The GPU and GTE don't care if they're in a character model or a landscape model. It will render them all the same.
False, size of the polygons also matter. You can choke a PSX (or N64) to death by rendering a mere 25 full screen polygons on top of each other.

>>10218296
Have you ever played any PSX games? Playstation titles were just as fog heavy as the rest, just look at Soul Reaver, Tenchu, Ape Escape, MediEvil, Silent Hills etc (and i'm focussing on the good games)
If they could draw further out they would've


Welcome to 5th gen I guess, all these systems had severe limitations in the end.

[Anonymous No.10218707]

>>10214712
Load times would be a major issue without a significant rework. As-is, the game is divided into scenes. Each scene is comprised of one or more rooms. There are scene-level assets and room-level assets. The former is kept loaded until you change scenes. The latter is loaded and unloaded as you move from one room to another. This process takes mere frames. You can't do that with a CD-ROM.

For example, Kokiri Forest is divided into three rooms: the main area, the deku tree area, and the Kokiri sword area. As such, when you walk from the main area to the Kokiri tree area, it has to unload the previous room and load a new room. This happens almost instantaneously, to the point where most players never even realize it's happening. That's how fast loading from cartridge is.

[Anonymous No.10218712]

>>10218537
lol do you not see the mountains? The buildings were extra. You're all fucking tendies. Oh, ocarina of time? Yeah, that was a nice game. What else do you have?

[Anonymous No.10218714]

>>10218707
yeah retard, cartridge fast, WOW

[Anonymous No.10218718]

>>10218712
>lol do you not see the mountains?
Untextured polygons, something the 32x could do

What else do you have?
Termina field (or just MMs Overworld in general)

[Anonymous No.10218719]

>>10218656
And?
>>10218679
>Compare this to the low poly building in Terracon popping into existence at 30 feet away. There is simply no way this could run on Playstation.
The overall polygon count of Hyrule Field as a whole is probably lower than what we're seeing in Terracon. You could still use those same low poly models for the stuff at a distance, you'd just need to subdivide as you got closer to avoid texture warping issues.
>>10218694
>Add a character model (sitting on a horse), with an enemy or 2 on screen, some bushes and trees and suddenly it's no longer 1500 polygons.
Now you assume the game is actually drawing all 1500 of those terrain polygons at all times. It's not. It's only drawing what's visible. Non-visible polygons will be culled, both for the terrain and entities. At most you're going to see maybe 1/4-1/3 of Hyrule field at a given time. So only about 375-500 polygons, and your character models and entities will add up to maybe another 250-500 polygons after they're culled. You have more than enough polygon budget to allow for enough subdivision to deal with texture warping issues.
>Also hyrule field is not the reason the game was locked at 20fps, it's the denser areas with plenty of shit going on that made them do that decision.
The point is more the game is capped at 20fps. At that frame rate you have more than enough fillrate and polygon rendering budget on PS1 to do what Ocarina of Time throws at you.

>False, size of the polygons also matter. You can choke a PSX (or N64) to death by rendering a mere 25 full screen polygons on top of each other.
That's because you hit the pixel fill rate cap doing that. You're not going to be doing that drawing something like Hyrule Field on either system. So in that sense what I said is true, the game isn't going to care if you're using your polygons for a character model or a landscape. Only if you do something retarded and max out fill rate by drawing a bunch of full screen polygons.

[Anonymous No.10218720]

>>10218714
Yes, very much WOW. It's why, for instance, Link can have so many animations and abilities accessible at a moment's notice, they all just get loaded in as needed. It's constantly loading and unloading shit whenever the fuck it wants to. It really is significant to the game and not something the PS1 could replicate easily.

[Anonymous No.10218723]

>>10218712
>tendies
Ohhhh, mr Console Warrior just got angry

[Anonymous No.10218730]

>>10218707
>You can't do that with a CD-ROM.
You realize these systems are able to stream data right? If you do things intelligently you could use that hallway between the main village area and the Deku Tree as a streaming point to stream in new data. You can get about 300KB of data a second out of the PS1's disc drive. That should be enough to load in a new room while the player walks through a hallway.

[Anonymous No.10218731]

>>10218719
How do people make these posts where they pretend to be a genius game programmer who is capable of doing impossible things on the hardware with ease and not physically cringe upon submitting them?

[Anonymous No.10218735]

>>10218719
The problem with your ranting is... why did none of the mainstream games do it?
So many games would benefit from drawing further out yet we never really see it done. On the n64 it is far more common to have this, no need to just fall back to OoT as the only example.

You sound just as delusional as the Saturn guys who keep insisting it could do 3D just as well as the rest

[Anonymous No.10218736]

>>10218723
i'm not the one trying to claim ocarina of time couldn't be done on the fucking playstation. 1;1? no, but who gives a shit

[Anonymous No.10218740]

>>10218735
it's literally nintendo's flagship fucking title, how do you retards not understand this. We all understand the benefit of cartridge, but you can't keep fucking leaning on that like it defines the system's catalogue because it doesn't; the fact is, very few games on the 64 achieve such heights

[Anonymous No.10218745]

>>10218736
>no, but who gives a shit
Then why give a shit in the first place? What is even the point of attempting this. It's the most pointless nerd shit ever. Like, we have working decompiled ports of the game for modern systems that you could be helping improve, but instead you have to be such an autist you decide to instead try to make insane and excessively high effort plans port it to more primitive systems purely for the flex and novelty value.

[Anonymous No.10218748]

>>10218740
>very few games on the 64 achieve such heights
But this kind of seamless high detail distance rendering is there on tons of games. Like Goldeneye immediately shows this off from its opening level.

[Anonymous No.10218749]

>>10218720
That's actually not how the N64 works. It has to load data into Main RAM just like the PS1. While the cart port isn't as slow as a 2x Speed CD-ROM drive, it's not really all that fast either. It can't just access the cart like it's pre-populated RAM like previous systems could. As for animations, you realize games like Resident Evil 2 and 3 have a shit load of those and they're pretty intricate. There's also some nice techniques you can use to reduce the memory footprint of your animations like interpolation.
>>10218735
>The problem with your ranting is... why did none of the mainstream games do it?
They did:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8yLq45tDGc
You can see polygon subdivision happening in wireframe mode as the polygons approach the camera. As for why they didn't do very large draw distances, probably because most devs felt maintaining a 30-60fps frame rate was more important than a long draw distance. Some did attempt it though, like the devs of Spyro and Terracon.

>You sound just as delusional as the Saturn guys who keep insisting it could do 3D just as well as the rest
While it's definitely the weakest of the 3, it's not nearly as underpowered as people think.

[Anonymous No.10218759]

>>10218730
Sure, you could mitigate load times by attempting to preload, but I doubt that would be enough. You'd need to extend the hallway, at least. Likewise for other fast room transitions (ex. falling to the floor below in a dungeon). Then there are door-based transitions. Preloading as you approach the door can only do so much. Chances are, you'd end up with an awkward pause as Link stands there waiting on the door to open.

[Anonymous No.10218762]

>>10215094
>made by Quintet
neat

[Anonymous No.10218763]

>>10218740
Except that other games did it too, Rocket on Wheels, Goemon and Banjo for instance (not even focussing on weaker titles like Quest 64 or Hercules). Pilotwings 64 is also a nice example.

>>10218749
>They did:
Thats in a corridor setting, just like Crash which looks great but does so by limiting the view.
Tomb raider or Soul Reaver open up more and even then they frequently dip to 20fps (and struggle with draw distance)

PSX polygons just cannot get too large or things start to get glitchy (same on the Saturn), which means you need to spend more of your polygon budget for subdivision instead.
Makes it incredibly hard to do an open setting with large drawdistance on top.

[Anonymous No.10218767]

>>10218759
How much data do you think you need to load? Especially if a lot of it can rely on common data like a common set of textures and what not? You have a 2x speed drive which can let you read about 300-344KB/s depending on the way you format the disc. I highly doubt a new room in a dungeon in Ocarina of Time needs more than that to load in during the door animation, especially if the area around the door can be preloaded.

[Anonymous No.10218783]

>>10218749
>It can't just access the cart like it's pre-populated RAM like previous systems could
Technically it can, but accessing ROM that way is pretty slow and doesn't make use of the cache. You can even execute directly from ROM, but it's not recommended.

[Anonymous No.10218786]

>>10218763
>Thats in a corridor setting, just like Crash which looks great but does so by limiting the view.
It's just an example to show that games did use subdivision. The wireframe mode makes it easy to see it in action.
>Tomb raider or Soul Reaver open up more and even then they frequently dip to 20fps (and struggle with draw distance)
With arguably more complicated geometry.
>PSX polygons just cannot get too large or things start to get glitchy (same on the Saturn), which means you need to spend more of your polygon budget for subdivision instead.
It's more that you get bad texture warping as they get closer to the camera. So you subdivide as they get closer to the camera to mitigate it. If we're capped at 20fps like the N64 game, the PS1 should have more than enough fillrate and polygon rendering budget to pull it off decently enough. As previously posted games like Spyro and Terracon show that a long draw distance can be achieved on the system.

[Anonymous No.10218789]

>>10218783
Right, the point was more it's not practical.

[Anonymous No.10218790]

>>10218786
Five polygon buildings popping in at 30 feet away is not a good example of long draw distance, game programming guru.

[Anonymous No.10218815]

>>10218786
I think there is also other limitations in place that require subdivision where (large) polygons near the edge of the screen where vertex coordinates start to glitch out causing them to literally break up.
Not sure why, probably they run out of coordinate precision off screen. I remember seeing this in MediEvel near the start, the walls inside the building.
Saturn was also affected by this, in PDS just walk around in the main town (Zoah) near the edges of the geometry.

[Anonymous No.10218892]

>>10218485
Wut? The cart could he used as ACTUAL RAM

https://www.ign.com/articles/2000/11/10/bringing-indy-to-n64

Factor 5: The big strength was the N64 cartridge. We use the cartridge almost like normal RAM and are streaming all level data, textures, animations, music, sound and even program code while the game is running. With the final size of the levels and the amount of textures, the RAM of the N64 never would have been even remotely enough to fit any individual level. So the cartridge technology really saved the day.

Show me a single character on playstation with more than 572 different animations.

[Anonymous No.10218921]

Spyro is technically very advanced, but at the expensive of looking very simplistic in the distance

Battle for Naboo and Vigilante 8 2nd offense do use a similar 'trick' as well on the N64 and it works well enough to increase overal fidelity given the limitations these 5th gen systems had.

[Anonymous No.10218978]

>>10218028
Funny thing about Spyro's map is that you'll never see a lot of the map at once, it's purposefully designed to have the map obscure itself as not to overtax the hardware, similarly to how crash works.

You could probably do the same with hyrule field with a little bit of redesign.

[Anonymous No.10219052]

>>10214712
The PS1 and the N64 had different hardware specifications, so although the PS1 was a capable console for its time, it had certain limitations compared to the N64.

While the PS1 has some iconic 3D games like FF VII and Metal Gear Solid, its hardware was generally considered less powerful for 3D rendering compared to the N64. The PS1 was more known for its 2D and sprite-based games.

Creating a game similar to OoT on the PS1 would have been technically challenging due to the hardware limitations of the PS1, particularly in terms of rendering capabilities and available memory and the result would have been quite different from what you see in Ocarina of Time.

While the PS1 had many great games, if you were looking for a game with similar 3D open-world and graphical fidelity to Ocarina of Time, it would have been more feasible on the N64 or Dreamcast.

[Anonymous No.10219084]

i love these threads because there's a dedicated schizoid nintendo 64 fanboy (who hates anything not-nintendo) that responds to every post that he's threatened by with the utmost denial and desperate attempts at gaslighting

[Anonymous No.10219190]

>>10219052
/thread

[Anonymous No.10220726]

>>10218154
maybe ill play my once in a decade oot plays
did they ever finish that reverse engineering oot project like they did with mario 64?

[Anonymous No.10220730]

>>10219052
Thanks chatgpt

[Anonymous No.10220847]

>>10220726
Yes except for the Dark Link fight

[Anonymous No.10220926]

>>10214712
very

[Anonymous No.10221676]

>>10220926
suuuuure

[Anonymous No.10221751]

>>10215471
>add Fog of War
>entire game is now playable

Wow, that was hard.

[Anonymous No.10221773]

>>10214712
>>10214845
>>10215471
>>10215654
>>10218028
>>10218978
>>10219052
>console peasants squabbling over who the better draw distance

Pathetic.

[Anonymous No.10221830]

>>10221773
>long draw distance
>at the cost of everything else including having literally no textures

[Anonymous No.10221834]

>>10221773
nice test level faggot lmao
get the fuck outta here

[Anonymous No.10221839]

So what's the final veredict?
>>10214845 is obviously just a small room, can it even run on original hardware?

[Anonymous No.10221869]

>>10221830
>>10221834
Coping nintendies. It requires, ironically, 64 times the amount of RAM the N64 natively has. Cope and seethe.

[Anonymous No.10221872]

>>10221869
based /v/ console warrior.

[Anonymous No.10221880]

>>10221830
>having literally no textures

Tell me you've never played Super Hornet, without telling me you've never played Super Hornet.

https://youtu.be/o87AspTb4cs?si=C8xd9d4h-KUquAMt&t=87

[Anonymous No.10221881]

>>10221869
>1999 game
You had nothing worthwhile during 5th gen and you missed out.
You even missed out on the console war you're begging for because you were late to it in the first place, PCtard.

[Anonymous No.10221882]

>>10221869
>97 game
>requires Windows XP
Those are not the original system requirements at all

[Anonymous No.10221887]

>>10214712
Probably easier to fake it. Like make a static background that fades through text coords as you get closer or something

[Anonymous No.10221890]

>>10221887
*tex

[Anonymous No.10221892]

>>10221882
>You had nothing worthwhile during 5th gen and you missed out.

>best game of all time ever
>missed out
Yea, you did.

[Anonymous No.10221898]

>>10221892
I didn't miss out because I had a PC and I played Half-Life on release

[Anonymous No.10221912]

>>10221882
I can't find the manual, so I posted the STEAM requirements.

[Anonymous No.10221916]

>>10221898
And I didn't miss out, because consoles are dogshit and everything on them is inherently bad and inferior.

[Anonymous No.10221919]

>>10218892
>muh compressed keyframe data
i don’t know what kind of argument you’re trying to make here. what the hell does the total number of animations of a single character have to do with anything?

[Anonymous No.10221938]

>>10221916
Hexen is dogshit though. If you're gonna be a platform warring faggot at least pick a good game

[Anonymous No.10222134]

>>10215471
Hyrule Field is the tech demo. Huge boring waste of space.

[Anonymous No.10222172]

>>10222134
finally someone fucking says it. just wait for all the retarded retorts to this.
>i-it’s empty because of technical limitations and they were rushed! they planned on filling it with more things!!!
or
>i-it’s not empty, it’s just barren because of plot reasons! besides, who would want to walk every ten feet and interact with something new anyway? it’s a kids game for crying out loud!

[Anonymous No.10222180]

>>10221916
*Also on Consoles
*With Splitscreen Co-Op

[Anonymous No.10222192]

>>10221916
Consoles were so bad the PS1 could barely run Doom.

[Anonymous No.10222262]

>>10222192
doom's fake 3D was not our future.

[Anonymous No.10222523]

>>10222262
What do you mean fake 3D?

[Anonymous No.10222546]

It wouldn't be possible, it would need to be a different game with less 3D maths and more pre-rendered backgrounds.

[Anonymous No.10222548]

>>10222180
>Also on consoles

>scripting and animation is slower on PS1 and lack their gorey deaths
>lighting and level architecture was removed and/or simplified

>N64 version lacks the FMV's and PC audio
>plays at a lower resolution

>"with split-screen coop"
PC has that as well, sans the split-screen, so again, innately better.

[Anonymous No.10222562]

>>10218446
When we get a Blade Arts Tasogare no Miyako R'lyeh translation
(never)

[Anonymous No.10222584]

>>10222262
Doom's environments were actually 3D, it was never "fake". And while consoles were struggling with their games, us PC chads had Quake and Unreal. I wonder how many Japanese games would've improved if they weren't chackled to their countryman's weak hardware?. Less restrictions and licensing, for one thing.

[Anonymous No.10222605]

>>10222548
>PC has that as well, sans the split-screen
So you need two PCs? LMAO!

[Anonymous No.10222618]

>>10222605
>he actually enjoys splitscreen

Disgusting.

[Anonymous No.10223071]

>>10222262
>fake 3D
Doom is 3D. Webm related

[Anonymous No.10223078]

>>10222618
>He has no friends
lmao loser
get fucking wedgied

[Anonymous No.10224429]

>>10223071
>sourceport
lmfaoroflmao
why is it every hardcore pc gamer into le retro games (doom and quake only) only knows about these games in how they play on modern hardware?

[Anonymous No.10224574]

>>10224429
The sourceport is only used to demonstrate things more clearly in the video. All of those vertical mechanics are in the original engine

[Anonymous No.10224585]

>>10215353
Girls can play vidya too uwu

[Anonymous No.10225103]

>>10214845
>It would be sharper, higher resolution, higher framerate, and play better too.
Now implement actual AI, combat and incorporate outdoor areas like Hyrule Field then we'll talk. I don't think it'd be impossible, it'd probably suffer from many of the same problems as the N64 version, though. I don't think you'd suddenly have a 60 FPS game for example

[Anonymous No.10225340]

>>10215684
>Why does the movement look so weird?
maybe because it's a prototype retard

[Anonymous No.10225546]

>>10214845
where's the dithering?

[Anonymous No.10225620]

>>10225103
i think it would run fine, only issue would be the draw distance. just play this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyx4vrCbxlE

[Anonymous No.10225628]

>>10225546
Dithering was an optional feature for PSX game development. As in, not necessary or forced by the hardware.

[Anonymous No.10226052]

>>10214726
like your mother

[Anonymous No.10226063]

>>10225546
>>10225628
Dithering is also used on the N64 (in Zelda too). You just can't usually see it because of the vaseline AA + composite cables. You can see it more easily with accurate emulation like with ParaLLEl at native res

[Anonymous No.10226085]

>>10215110
Jesus.

[Anonymous No.10226372]

>>10225340
Ive seen prototypes of fangames for stuff like mega man or sonic and the controls seem spot on

[Anonymous No.10226891]

>>10226372
Keep in mind this is running on a ps1. Making a ps1 game is a completely different beast compared to making a PC one

[Anonymous No.10226907]

>>10218537
Battle for naboo has a better terrain engine, you can see much further back. Granted the distance looks quite empty most of the time.

[Anonymous No.10227494]

Going to give 90's Nintendo the benefit of the doubt and say they could probably muster up a decent port of Ocarina if they had to for some stupid reason.

[Anonymous No.10229340]

>>10224585
Yes, but none post -- or even lurk -- on this board.

[Anonymous No.10229370]

>>10214845
>all of the vertexes wiggle and distract you

[Anonymous No.10230772]

>>10215110
>>10226085
Well he can't help the hardware limitations. At least they put a message to explain why there was a sudden pause for loading.

[Anonymous No.10231073]

>>10221773
Is this meant to be impressive?