/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.10197751]

ITT: Games in a franchise that everyone hates or mostly dislikes but are actually fucking awesome and you have no idea why the general opinion is what it is.

Pic related is mine, I think this is easily the best Star Fox game. 64 is great too but holy shit this games on another level. Incredible orchestral score, the onfoot levels are actually really fun and being able to seamlessly hop into and arwing or landmaster is really cool, and the traditional levels it has are easily the best in the franchise. Those boss fights too. Also the game is genuinely difficult but so rewarding when playing on hard mode. Not to mention the multiplayer is some of the most chaotic fun you can possibly have. Absolute 10/10 game but everyone says otherwise.

[Anonymous No.10197780]

>>10197751
Also I'm trans.

[Anonymous No.10197791]

>>10197751
Game is pretty good but branching paths were sorely missing for a Starfox game, and onfoot mission objectives aren't always conveyed well, I thought for the longest time that the Sargasso one ran on a time limit and I had not idea what I was doing wrong until I just found out LAST YEAR that the gauge is how many enemies there are, also is a crime that multiplayer wasn't LAN supported but overall still in the top half of the series.
Anyway this is mine, I unironically think it's better than the first and I wish Mario games afterward at least had a difficulty switch so based TLL enjoyers can find a home outside the romhack community.

[Anonymous No.10197793]

>>10197791
Absolutely agree I think Mario 1 and 2(Lost Levels) are actually the best of the 2D ones. The difficulty of 2 is greatly exaggerated and probably comes from people that just aren't good at games in general.

[Anonymous No.10197819]

>>10197751
I think a lot of nintendo sequels suffer from
>muh childhood entry was better
>>10197793
SMB2 isnt even hard in the sense of hard platformers, it's just frequent cheap shots.

[Anonymous No.10199161]

>>10197751
But assault was terrible and accelerated the series decline.

[Anonymous No.10199192]

I loved how this game let you do everything with star fox. It always made me wish they would do an f-zero game with action stages in addition to the racing. Maybe even a side scroller, something like viewtiful joe or gunstar heroes.

[Anonymous No.10199520]

>>10199161
but how was it terrible?

as usual the sheep says what everyone else says without actually having any valid to say

[Anonymous No.10199547]

>>10197791
>branching paths were sorely missing for a Starfox game
The SNES game didn't have branching paths (except for "out of this dimension"). Only Starfox 64 had that.

[Anonymous No.10199559]

And no, not the overrated Xbox version. The next-gen one is overall solid with interesting twists on the original tropes, but most importantly it has a fantastic multiplayer versus mode. Shame about the coop being replaced with a bot match though

[Anonymous No.10199576]

>>10199547
Black Hole puts you further in your own charted course or on the two other ones.

[Anonymous No.10199612]

>>10199161
People say that transplanting Krystal from DP to SF did, but fuck it, how many Nintendo characters do you KNOW fuck? Fox fucking deserves a steady dose of space pussy after all the hell he goes through. Krystal's the last of her kind and she owes him bigtime so she's literally got nothing else to do. It's win-win.
Too bad Command fucked everything up.

[Anonymous No.10200187]

>>10199559
I only played the 360 version and liked it a lot. Was it suppose to be bad? Tge multiplayer was fun, but I could never get anyone to play with online.

[Anonymous No.10200196]

Don't forget when wolf helps fox and suddenly the internet got horny for shipping wolf x fox furry porn. Best GameCube game

[Anonymous No.10200489]

>>10197751
I've never understood the hate-boner for Sunshine, it's easily one of my favorite platformers of all time. I don't feel like its flaws are enough to detract from the joy factor unlike a game like Sonic Adventure 2 which seems endlessly praised.

[Anonymous No.10200503]

>>10200489
It makes a great first impression but every single level after the first few is pure dogshit and if you want to see the final boss you have to complete the 7th shine of EVERY SINGLE LEVEL which includes constant shines and even entire levels that aren't even related to platforming

[Anonymous No.10200523]

>>10197751
>Games in a franchise that everyone hates or mostly dislikes but are actually fucking awesome
GTA I.
I can't believe (until I browsed the threads) there are plebs who can't appreciate GTA I.

[Anonymous No.10200537]

>>10199612
Krystal's problem is that no one knew how to write for her. She was explicitly suited for Dinosaur Planet. They sexed her up for Adventures on behalf of the Japanese(!), but yoinked her out of 95% of the action and put a pin on what to do with her later. What Assault did was acceptable. With Peppy distancing himself from the Arwing, it only made sense that they'd take on a new pilot who owes Fox a life debt. Thing is, she doesn't fit the team dynamic nearly as well as Peppy did, and her one big break in the game (sensing that Sauria needed help) was a ruse on the Aparoids' part to distract the team from Corneria. Command would've been way more interesting if she was the last Star Fox member to stay by Fox's side and we see firsthand how much of a toll that might've taken on her psyche depending on the player's actions, but instead offscreen drama that betrays her character kicks off her story arc. I think the issue is because Adventures' Japanese localization for whatever reason got rid of her backstory that she was an orphaned survivor. As undeveloped as that was, that explained why Andross would want to take advantage of her, and losing so much of her purpose in life gave her a reason to want to join Star Fox as a sort of new family. Instead, she's basically treated as some random bimbo who got in over her head like a dumb broad I guess, which explains why her character direction in Command was so god-awful, and why she suddenly likes doing things like indulge Panther's idiocy and argue with Fox about Andross. The sad thing is that I'm starting to see people retroactively defend her character in Command for giving her "agency" but no, it's just crap writing because no one can agree on what to do with her. It's no wonder they had to re-reboot the series without her.

[Anonymous No.10200545]

>>10197751
I see hate for Zelda 2 on here and that its not a real Zelda. While it's just an average game when compared to arcade games of its time it is probably my favourite Zelda game.
>>10197780
I never understood why this got posted until I started to use discord.
>>10197791
No one hates LL. Its overly difficult but it's more Super Mario Bros which makes it a banger no matter what.
>>10200523
I have never heard anyone who hated GTA before.

[Anonymous No.10200559]

>>10197791
My nigga. Lost Levels is one of the better ones, and I agree, we need Mario games to be this difficult again. Some actual challenge.

As for Assault, I put hundreds of hours into that game on multiplayer alone. Me and my buddies used to play this all the time. Even singleplayer was appealing.

[Anonymous No.10200569]

>>10200489
Sunshine is probably my most replayed mario game because I love the tropical setting so much and it's extremelly comfy to play during the summer. I don't think I have ever actually 100% finished it thought because the game has some really bullshit missions I have never been able to beat.

[Anonymous No.10200572]

>>10200503
Man it doesn't even take that long though. I think it's worth it overall. I liked Sunshine's approach to 3D Mario, and the Fludd really opened up Mario's moveset. Plus the island paradise setting was refreshing.

[Anonymous No.10200581]

>>10200569
I don't think the missions are a problem as much as the blue coins. I say this as someone who 100%'d it multiple times, the reward is not worth hunting down all those little fuckers. I swear, some of them were designed like secrets in games such as Castlevania 2. You need to either be an autist or use a guide to uncover all of them.

[Anonymous No.10200603]

>>10197751

[Anonymous No.10201038]

>>10199161
Hackmoto killed the franchise by forcing Rare to turn their game into a shitty Zelda knockoff with a Starfox skin

[Anonymous No.10201395]

>>10199520
Assault is an inferior flying game to star fox 64 and a very mediocre shooter at its best. The graphics and sounds are also weak for gamecube. Not even the level design and physics are redeemable

[Anonymous No.10201473]

>>10201038
>shitty Zelda knockoff
Still miles better than what Nintendo put out for Zelda since the Spaceworld incident

[Anonymous No.10201684]

MGS2 is a close contender for my favorite. I don't understand the hate at all.

Yes, the entire POINT of the game is that it's supposed to be set up to be like Shadow Moses of MGS1, but then expectations are subverted. The game isn't subtle about this. Then the plot is that the bad guys are trying to poorly recreate Shadow Moses as part of the SSS (Solid Snake Simulation) plan. The entire thing is self-aware, obviously Kojima knew people wanted to play as Solid Snake and not Raiden, who was made to be as annoying as possible at times. When you are aware the entire game fully self-aware and meta, the plot is actually pretty good. And the action is like MGS1 but smoother, except there's a vague "dissatisfaction" to each major boss, which is intentional. It's all designed extremely well.

[Anonymous No.10201750]

>>10197751

[Anonymous No.10201756]

>>10197751
While not awesome, it was far from being as shit as people claim.

[Anonymous No.10202440]

>>10200537
>Adventures' Japanese localization for whatever reason got rid of her backstory that she was an orphaned survivor.
The heck. If they were gonna do that, it would have been far better to turn her into Fox's Katt.

[Anonymous No.10203079]

>>10201395
This is objectively the wrong opinion and you should kill yourself.

>>10201684
I would have put this but it seems people have come around on it the past couple years and recognize it as the masterpiece it is. Absolutely some revisionists history going on with it though, I remember for years and years how everyone hated it simply for the shallow reason of not playing as Snake.

[Anonymous No.10203108]

>>10201684
No matter how clever it is, most people aren't really going to care, and still see it as the game that took Snake away from them, and made them play as some femboy.
I say that as someone who likes it. The hate "makes perfect sense", if you understand that the average player just wants their comfort food, and doesn't like being surprised or feeling confused or challenged. I'm a novelty seeker, so I pretty much like the game for that specifically.

[Anonymous No.10204983]

>>10203079
If the best reply you could think of is telling someone to commit suicide then you really must not feel confident in your own opinions of the game.

[Anonymous No.10204994]

For me it's Snake's Revenge

[Anonymous No.10204995]

and Dragon Quest 2

[Anonymous No.10204997]

and also

>Iga said my opinion is I should hate it!!

[Anonymous No.10205007]

>>10200503
>every single level after the first few is pure dogshit
No it's not. I don't even understand how that opinion is a thing, they're all about the same. It's one of those cases where people heard that the game was rushed in development so they judge it harshly based on that news story. NEVER tell gaymers that your game changed during development in any way, they will act as if every change is a cut that butchered the game because they don't understand how games are made.

[Anonymous No.10205008]

>>10200545
>I have never heard anyone who hated GTA before.
It's a common opinion these days. Most youtubers and their followers blindly hate GTA1-2.

[Anonymous No.10205016]

>>10200603
At least this one can be explained by it being a less obvious story than 7 that filtered a lot of people who to this day think Rinoa isn't Ultimecia, and the characters are weaker than 7. Most people only had 7 to compare it to, any game would lose in that comparison. Hating FF2 on the other hand makes no sense to me. Every time people list the reasons they hate it I just see them listing the feature list of Elder Scrolls that everyone seems to love in Elder Scrolls. Oh no skills develop as you use them. That's... bad?

[Anonymous No.10205123]

>>10197751
The only good thing about this game is the multi-player. If I could play that online with you guys, that would be pretty awesome.

[Anonymous No.10205134]

>>10201473
Another spaceworld 2000 bro?

[Anonymous No.10205183]

>>10203079
>Assaultfag zoomer chimping out when someone points out his game is a piece of shit.
Color me surprised.

[Anonymous No.10205227]

I genuinely think there's a hidden really good game in here let down by bad level design and overpowered character abilities. It falls very flat as a singleplayer game but when both players grasp the mechanics in co op it's actually a really fun and unique game, but the level design doesn't really take advantage of or reward that kind of mastery like the mainline Sonic games would.

It's a shame the rubber band ring mechanic never came back in some way, even as a bonus mode in Mania or whatever. I am confident it could be a really fun basis for a co op game, if only the levels were made for it.

[Anonymous No.10205267]

>>10205123
The multiplayer wasn't even good. Notice assaultfags always say it has the best multiplayer in the series with barely any multiplayer in other titles. If it was actually good or even decent you'd have them talking in more detail about how it fairs against well known multiplayer shooter titles

[Anonymous No.10205401]

>>10205227
I'm surprised no sonic fans attempted at making an improved version like they did with several other shitty sonic games.

[Anonymous No.10205449]

this is a Peter Griffin Joker Bomb Strapped To Chest ass take but with a light gun its not too bad. still far from perfect but with enough polish it could have been a classic

[Anonymous No.10205478]

>>10200503
>I have to beat all the levels before I beat the game!
Post your favorite game. I bet you like Mario 64. Coincidentally, I think all levels past the first three in Mario 64 are bad. I think every level and minigame in SMS is gold. Complaining about pachinko is like complaining about freckles on a hot girl.

[Anonymous No.10205546]

>>10197751
Golden Axe 2 is a fairly unambitious game. It has the same heroes as the original game and the gameplay is also very similar.
But it's still very good. For an early Genesis game it looks great, the music is fantastic, it controls a little better than the first one and the whole game makes you feel like you're in a Sword and sorcery adventure.

[Anonymous No.10205569]

>>10197751
I have looked at this game from an unbiased viewpoint as well as my time playing it when I was younger, and I am genuinely confused as to how anyone thinks it's as bad as Adventures or even fucking Command.
There are flaws, yes. That's no contest. On foot missions feel very odd compared to the fluidity of the Arwing missions. But that's the ONLY complaint I've seen related to the game itself.
By the way anyone that hates this game because WRRRRUUUUUGGGGHHHH KRYSTAL BAD FURRIES BAD 0/10 GAMES is a retarded faggot.

[Anonymous No.10205571]

>>10205478
freckles are fucking hot though

[Anonymous No.10205572]

>>10201395
>Assault is an inferior flying game to star fox 64 and a very mediocre shooter at its best.
What is it about 64 that makes it better? 64 is fun as hell, I do agree.
>The graphics and sounds are also weak for gamecube.
Compression does fuck with the audio, that I will give you. It has some great music itself though, and the voice acting isn't going to be some grand perfect endeavor. It's a fun space shooter with talking animals.
>Not even the level design and physics are redeemable
What does this mean? If it's complaints that there's no hidden paths like in 64 then fair enough, though that never bothered me since the game has a set goal for each mission. But what do you mean by the physics being irredeemable?

[Anonymous No.10206854]

>>10205008
Every wog in high school owned a pirated copy with techno music for all the stations. If you were to say you disliked gta in front of them they'd probably bash you.

[Anonymous No.10206872]

Star fox sucks bro

[Anonymous No.10207074]

>>10205572
The story in assault is dumb, characters are bland with at times cringy dialog, the missions are short and lackluster, physics and controls are janky, multiplayer is the most bare minimal to being passable, sound effects are bad, graphics are lackluster compared to basically every Nintendo published game on GameCube, and the music just doesn't fit well with the levels. Yeah orchestra sounds good but the rhythm and other alterations to how the original 64 music flowed really doesn't work as music for a level in the game. Multi-player music also is generic techno sounding music.

In other words the game really is a big disappointment for someone who enjoyed star fox 64 and the multiplayer shooter genre. I would not recommend anyone to play it unless they are absolutely dead set on playing every star fox or GameCube game.

[Anonymous No.10207110]

>>10206872
I know you're shitposting but it is also really hard to prove you wrong. The game that's the least controversial when saying it doesn't suck is 64 and even that game has some valid points made to why it isn't so great or didn't age that well.

[Anonymous No.10208693]

>>10200489
Zoomer hate it because they suck at video games and SMS doesn't have the babby tier difficulty level of 64, Galaxy or Odyssey.

[Anonymous No.10208741]

>>10208693
I wish it had a better end game reward

[Anonymous No.10208786]

>>10208741
This is still a contender for the biggest "fuck you" in a video game.

[Anonymous No.10209243]

>>10197751
It's a top 3 starfox game, but the best starfox game for multiplayer.
Actually got to play this with 4 players back then and it was awesome as fuck. Arwing vs landmaster vs some fuck with a bazooka was messy as fuck and loads of fun.
Single player isnt as good as 64, but its solid. Strictly speaking it's better than Starfox snes but thats mostly due to hardware limitations.

[Anonymous No.10209251]

>>10197751
Does the multiplayer work well with Dolphin? Would be cool to play it with me mates

[Anonymous No.10209870]

>>10209251
Iffy

[Anonymous No.10209917]

>>10207110
I like Starfox games when they're just letting me do on rails shooting stuff.
I wish Nintendo agreed and didn't keep trying to insert different stuff into the games. Even all range mode is not particularly fun.

[Anonymous No.10210003]

>>10209251
Don't expect anything like Slippi
Wolf is fucking broken btw

[Anonymous No.10210079]

>>10209243
Assault is one of the worst star fox titles in my opinion. Nothing about it I'd call great. Best I can compliment is it is through and through a mediocre title with it excelling at nothing.

[Anonymous No.10211314]

>>10199559
The multiplayer was incredible. Truly exhilarating gameplay.

Unfortunately, I started playing way after the game launched. So all the noobs were gone and only the veterans remained online. That game had a massive skill ceiling and veteran players absolutely destroyed me with drone strikes and grenade lobs.

[Anonymous No.10211323]

>>10200503
>you have to complete the 7th shine of EVERY SINGLE LEVEL
What a dog-shit zoomer take ha ha

[Anonymous No.10211338]

>>10197751
I also liked Assault.

Granted, my intro to the Star Fox series was Adventures. I was playing that when the other kids were playing WW. So my childhood experience with Star Fox was with its complete bastard games.

[Anonymous No.10212350]

>>10200489
Look, I love Mario Sunshine, but It's not exactly a mystery as to why It's not universally loved.

It's a really janky game first of all. Physics glitches and other such nonsense happen semi-regularly during play sessions.
Some missions are obnoxious. No one likes the pachinko. I never have THAT much problem completing it, but It's still not great. Yoshi's Fruit Adventure is obnoxious because you just have to alternate ground pounds until you get the durian fruit, and better pray it doesn't bounce into the water during the cutscene itself. The sand bird while cool, is boring.
100% is unfulfilling and tedious. You just go around collection blue coins, which you're probably using a strategy guide for. It's so dull. And your reward for 120 shines? A shitty post-game image. Woohoo.

I love Sunshine for nostalgia/soul/setting, but there's a lot to not love about it.

[Anonymous No.10212415]

>>10197751
>ITT: Games in a franchise that everyone hates or mostly dislikes but are actually fucking awesome and you have no idea why the general opinion is what it is.
Spider-Man: Return of the Sinister Six (1992/NES)
I often hear that this one isn't good due to it controlling poorly, looking and sounding bad, being too short and being too difficult with only a single continue, also that it doesn't have much to do with the character.
I find that, while the critics are fair, they're often exaggerated too. It controls fine once you spend more than 5min playing, the main issue is jumping, how it sometimes locks you straight, you have to be holding a direction before jumping, that's it, it's not great, but not hard to figure out and get used to either. It really doesn't look and sound amazing, but both of these aspects are also done in a way that make it quite atmospheric and moody, a little dark, but not too much, I love the atmosphere on Sandman's level especially. Also, it really is short, but it doesn't overstay its welcome, and it being short means that having few lives isn't that bad, or else you'd beat it on your 1st sitting. It really doesn't make you feel all that much like Spider-Man, compared to Spider-Man vs. The Kingpin, or Arcade's Revenge, but it's serviceable for NES. It's fun once you put time into it and learn to play, nice atmosphere and interesting level design early on, also fun and unique bosses. I love playing.

[Anonymous No.10213839]

>>10211338
GameCube Era really did star fox series dirty.

[Anonymous No.10214215]

>>10213839
N64 Dinosaur Planet was doomed from the start if they were already having it guest-star Fox McCloud before GCN.
But let's be honest, Rare did the best job they can do making it a Star Fox game, AND transferring it to GameCube AND having it all out on store shelves LITERALLY THE DAY BEFORE THE BUYOUT.

[Anonymous No.10215387]

>>10214215
Adventures if anything didn't have the right to be as good as it turned out.

[Anonymous No.10215431]

>>10197751
>Games in a franchise that everyone hates or mostly dislikes but are actually fucking awesome and you have no idea why the general opinion is what it is.
The reason is typically that it's shittier than the previous games and a disappointment to everyone who played them, but you played them out of order so you didn't know that.

[Anonymous No.10216343]

>>10215431
I think for Assault in particular was significantly because Adventures was not a Starfox game (5 minutes of flying an arwing + an out of nowhere final boss don't count) and people just wanted a shinier new Starfox 64.
Assault arguable the best Starfox game after Snes and 64 and while its far from perfect it is mostly fun. The multiplayer alone is enough for me to give it a pass.

[Anonymous No.10217053]

>>10199612
Command is basically a massive fuck-you to all the fans who openly furiously masturbated vicariously as Fox giving fox-dick to Krystal, to this day I have trouble telling if that idea is genuinely awful cringe or secretly based for attempting to subvert the existing cringe.

[Anonymous No.10217547]

>>10197751
I completely understand as to why this game is hated, as it's basically a middle finger to the very design of some of the earlier games and is incredibly beginner-unfriendly, but I think that it's incredibly well designed in that once you learn what to do, mastering it becomes incredibly satisfying due to the level design being extremely well thought-through in terms of enemy/hazard placement (with a few exceptions) in a way that the previous games usually weren't. There's even additional objects and unique enemy/boss behaviors exclusive to the Xtreme difficulty, meaning that the way you approach certain areas becomes completely different. It's certainly unpolished in some areas, but I think the underlying design isn't inherently bad and has it's own benefits that other games in the series don't have.

I feel similarly towards Metroid Fusion, where I can see why it's disliked, but I think it's approach makes for a good game in it's own right that I prefer due to it's strengths being more interesting to me than, say, Super's. Fusion's more action-oriented, streamlined controls coupled with some mechanics being reworked (super missiles, power bombs) for that allows for some of the more interesting bossfights in the series and it's the game that introduced the shinespark puzzles, including the really fun secret one. I do wish there was an option to just skip all the Adam stuff on replays, though. The JP version allows you to skip the intro cutscene on replays but nothing more than that.

[Anonymous No.10217568]

>>10216343
Assault has things that make it the best and worst in the series. Funnily enough despite how short the arwing levels in adventures were there were more of them than in Assault.

[Anonymous No.10217581]

If you die in the foot levels on hard mode you respawn but the entire level is reset. ALL your progress in the level is reset.

Like..... Why? Why not just have the level game over? Why not just be like "Mission Failed"

[Anonymous No.10217587]

>>10200489
i like it it just disliked that to beat the game you have to do the shadow mario missions which means that the shines dont actually matter like the stars in the previous game but whatever just a small problem in my opinion everything else is great and i've always had a boner for those water graphics

[Anonymous No.10217591]

>>10200489
SMS is one of my favorite games, but I can see how people might be turned away by stuff like the pachinko level. BTW you should check out Super Mario Sunshine Arcade 2 if you enjoy the original game.

[Anonymous No.10217594]

>>10208786
i personally love stuff like that, not like i was expecting anything from 100% any game i just do it because i like it

[Anonymous No.10218269]

>>10197751
Sonic 3D Blast doesn't get enough love or credit at all... It was essentially Sonic Frontiers in 1996, and the only 3D Sonic platformer on Saturn

>Instead of simply getting to the end you have to collect things to keep going
>One's progression is tied to a main collectable among them all even though you have many
>It's a Sonic collectathon similar to Rare's N64 efforts
>You can only play as Sonic but his friends are there to help in a way
>Defeating enemies is a must so you can't avoid them or sinply run past them like in other installments

I mean, it is a bit of a stretch... but Sonic Frontiers is essentially Sonic 3D Blast 2, and it was quite praised, so why not Traveller's Tales' original?

[Anonymous No.10218279]

>>10212350
Everyone brings up the pachinko but that was completely optional while garbage like the slot machine or chain chomp roundup was mandatory to finish the game

[Anonymous No.10218285]

>>10218279
Those were functional and fun. I've never heard any complaints about either of those before.

[Anonymous No.10218391]

>>10197751
had a blast with the MM DOS games as a kid. they're just basic DOS platformers, of course it's not going to be as good as the NES Mega Man. most DOS platformers aren't. it's like turning down a decent bologna sandwich because it's not filet mignon. imagine being so fat you see mega man and think food.
came back earlier this year and played both DOS MM back-to-back with a modern controller. world of difference from playing it with keyboard or whatever shit early-90s RadioShack controller I had back then. lotta fun playing it. there's really no classic Mega Man game I dislike except for the Wonderswan Rockman & Forte. i even had a alright time with the GB version of MM2.
maybe im just gay for mega man idk

[Anonymous No.10218431]

>>10197751
great music, solid bosses even with the stun mechanic, fun stages and a cool bonus library with lore that expands on the robot masters. king stage 2 sucks ass though and if you don't know that you basically need to use the shop it can be rough but that aside it is one of my favorites, probably in the top 5 desu. that said 8 is my least favorite classic game but hey thanks for lookin so pretty to take from. also 7 is good
>>10204997
no one hates this game but tryhards, and i do prefer the og style myself but it's definitely a classic.

[Anonymous No.10218945]

>>10197751
Worst star fox