/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.10183561]

WHAT THE FUCK??? THERE WAS A WHOLE ALTERNATE ROUTE THROUGH THE RIVER GANGES???

the worst part is that this is actually the INITIAL way I went, but I couldn't figure out how to get through the gate and so concluded that the game would somehow loop me back around. And it also apparently plays like a more traditional tomb raider level with platforming instead of garbage quad biking on narrow paths. FUUUUUCK I'm just thinking about how much better my initial experience with this game could have been if I figured out how to go through this route...

Did any of you guys know about this?

[Anonymous No.10183564]

>>10183561
tr3 is the worst tr changemymindprotipyoucan't

[Anonymous No.10183637]

>>10183564
skill issue + filtered.

tr2 exists.

[Anonymous No.10183639]

>>10183637
tr2 is better yes

[Anonymous No.10184878]

>>10183564
>zoomer jumps into an obvious trap and blames the game

[Anonymous No.10185108]

>>10184878
actually its the boat level that pisses me off with the bullshit physics
>t. zoomer who played all tr games without guides

[Anonymous No.10186337]

So, I returned to TR3, even though it's beginning levels are bad, because of how much I've heard about the later levels and in the hopes that it will impress me. Stopped playing TR4 because the disjointed level design of small levels being linked together can make the game feel kind of "shallow" even if it technically isn't. Also the degree of platforming puzzles and exploration being hard due to having to figure out how to traverse complex structures feels greatly reduced since rooms have been replaced largely by puzzles (or just traps) that often don't take that much advantage of Lara's moveset. Which makes the whole gameplay loop feel more like a generic Action Adventure and misses that unique element of Tomb Raider. The item interactions, like combine, and crowbar were nice I guess, but they further validate my point since they elaborate more on Lara's weapons, or puzzle solving than her movement.

I also returned to this game, because I was never going to quit it. I just got tired of dealing with all its nonsense. Which is why that retard in the last thread that went on about "you ragequit you ragequit!" was retarded and demonstrated a lack of reading comprehension since he didn't understand my point. Well you know what. I bet none of you have seen picrel? Nor do any of you know the alternate route through the Coastal Village that skips the whole ladder and tree house. See this is why NUANCE is so important. The reality is that I'm likely better than all of the retards who were trying to shit on me as being "bad" for getting mad at the quicksand trap, but because I'm so good at exploration, I can literally skip half of the level deliberately, while having only 1 out of the 7 enemy encounters in the inner part of the village (the one to get the secret in the cave behind the tree) Because I understand the level so well.

[Anonymous No.10186361]

>>10186337
But retards will still try to call me bad for getting caught by a bait trap with garbage visual cues that can easily be missed because "muhhh quicksand ashyually wobbles!!! even though every fucking texture in classic ps1 tomb raider games wobble! but I'm a retard that is disingenuously trying to get an own so it doesn't matter haha!" Even IF I were to give the wobble point as valid, every single other compounding factor destroys it.

Like the fact that it's the first encounter with quicksand, so you don't even know that you'll drown immediately until it's too late (even though I LITERALLY realized it in a split second and tried to turn around but still drowned because I was half a second late due to being taken by surprise by quicksand and not knowing how it works) or the fact that the texture looks EXACTLY the same as every single other floor texture in the huts which makes no sense if it's quicksand, or the fact that the game BAITS you by putting a medpack right there. There's just SO many compounding factors that cancel out the "wobble" of the quicksand, even though I can objectively prove that the wobble means nothing since all textures wobble and is a KNOWN effect for ps1 games.

It's simply beyond disingenuous to suggest that somebody who's inquisitive and explorative on their first playthrough should have noticed it on their first playthrough when there are so many unassuming and compounding factors. It's a shit trap. final. The worst part is that you supposedly can't even get the medpack, which makes it even more insidious but whatever.

[Anonymous No.10186383]

>>10184878
Do people even fall for that? lol

[Anonymous No.10186384]

>>10186361
Next thing I'll say is about the save system. Somebody made the point that there's literally a save crystal there, but if they had a single braincell and read any of the convos in that thread, they'd realize that the game naturally encourages hoarding and saving them. And I planned on using it after I got the medpack so I wouldn't have to pick it up every time I reloaded a save. The save system is shit for that.

I LITERALLY had 4 save crystals saved before that encounter. But because it would be stupid and a waste to use save crystals so early since just loading in from the beginning of the level isn't that far off and there aren't any hard encounters along the way. It would obviously be best to trudge a little further carefully and make a vague judgement about whether youre in the middle of a level or not. It's ALSO bad to use a save crystal near the end of a level (and same with med packs unless absolutely necessary) since when you finish a level it automatically asks you to save and the next level refreshes your health. This is what an intelligent player who wants to play maximally and efficiently does. Because the game demands it. And it's absolutely dogshit when the game has so many surprise traps, in between long dull stretches of exploration with no platforming, since it just makes the trek back a repetitive slog, since nothing has to be figured out or understood about the level anymore, there's no execution or puzzle solving because you already know everything and the right way. It's trial and error. The only way you can die is by surprises, or accidents, both are cheap.

I genuinely don't understand why so many retards are so eager to defend this shit. I actually talked to a cool dude in multiple TR threads that thinks TR3 is the best one and acknowledges all my criticisms as valid. It's so cringe cuz it's so obviously a narrative some people want to paint of zoomers being dumb and bad! rather than their precious old games being stupid sometimes

[Anonymous No.10186391]

>>10186383
ps1 owners

[Anonymous No.10186408]

>>10186337
anyway, I was gunna ask here what triggers the flames, since I skipped a bunch of the village with my BETTER smarts than some retards here, but I'm SO INQUISITIVE, that I figured it out anyway, and deliberately triggered it to prove to myself that I could dodge the flames this time. Eh. it wasn't that interesting. When I first came across the flames I wanted to immediately jump onto the metal grate and do a running jump off, but the game kept fudging my inputs, so I just did the normal, boring, no thought process or need for execution: hold r1 and walk up the the edge and then jump!

WOW! I can't wait for somebody to harass me a dozen times and call me bad for ever dying to something so easy! despite them missing the point that the only reason I died was BECAUSE I deliberately chose to challenge myself and approach it more freely instead of one dimensionally using the automated robotic, impossible to fail solution. Wow, such brilliant design! it epically owned those zoomers when it made a literally impossible to fail solution that fucks with people that try to be more free-form and creative!

anyway. I'll get through this level I guess. hopefully the next set of levels are more impressive and less trial and error; demand actual execution and feature platforming puzzles. I think every single criticism I've thrown about the beginning of the game being shit is completely valid, and substantiated by the fact that nobody can actually prove me wrong without adhoming and name calling. I'm out. Tomb Raider threads tend to be shit on here, but I'll shit it up as much as it satisfies me to, because if nobody's going to have any good discussion, I might aswell take out the trash and dumpster everyone.

[Anonymous No.10186416]

>>10184878
Nice emulator upressed bullshots.
Doesn't look that obvious on a real console, especially since the psx graphics are not that stable to begin with.

[Anonymous No.10186598]

fuck you to all the losers that tried to say I ragequit or got filtered. worthless bunch of retards.

all I hope now. is that the game only gets better from here on, I don't expect the game to suddenly stop with the surprise traps, or the save system to suddenly become good actually, but I hope the good it has to offer is good enough to outweigh the bad. amen

[Anonymous No.10186676]

>>10186361
>>10186391
>muh ps1 wobble

[Anonymous No.10186694]

>>10186337
>>10186361
An earlier part of the level introduced mud, but you missed it. Bad luck.
However you could not have missed the mud in India. The trap is funny, because everyone died to it. It's not unfair though.

[Anonymous No.10186716]

>>10186676
yeah he must be playing on original hardware. That excuses the retardedness of falling for that obvious trap

[Anonymous No.10186734]

>>10186416
It's probably the PC version.

[Anonymous No.10186774]

>>10186676
Why the fuck are so many people so retarded about this game? Holy fuck. First of all, the webm literally proves nothing, since I LITERALLY said that I did exactly that, but was half a second too late because it was a...SURPRISE TRAP and I didn't realize i was sinking too quickly till half a second.

also why the fuck are you acting so fucking proud about avoiding a trap in a curated webm that you already knew and saw coming? Do I SERIOUSLY have to explain to unironic retards how their stupid webms aren't reflective of actual realistic gameplay in a first playthrough? Genuinely fuck off and kill yourself if you're just going to ignore everything I typed just so you could feel better about yourself and get a delusional own for something I already did the literal second time I entered the hut. You're not skilled or better, the entire reason why I said it was trial and error was because it wasn't hard or skilled, it was just a matter of knowing or not.

>>10186694
wow. this game TRULY attracts retards, holy FUCK I CANNOT be bothered to explain to you retards like it's preschool how to fucking read. Jesus christ:

>"IN TR3, there's almost zero execution factor, and expectations are established poorly (I never encountered an electric platform before, or quicksand, EVEN LITERALLY IN THE BEGINNING OF THE LEVEL, it was mud, I had no reason to think it would be anything else. The very beginning of the level should have had a challenge involving it.)"

this is from the last thread. you don't need to tell me there was mud in the beginning of the level, I was aware and brought it up first to make a point. It doesn't fucking mean anything, because quicksand fundamentally works differently than mud, and mud has a different and explicit visual texture that differs from normal ground textures. The quicksand instead was deliberately designed as a surprise first encounter with virtually zero meaningful tells. this response is retarded.

[Anonymous No.10186781]

genuinely don't understand what sort of mental illness leads to this sort of response. I could make every argument, prove that I cleared the quicksand the second time around, and debunk the deliberate ignoring of context in every webm shown and it still wouldn't matter. because it isn't about being right or wrong, reasonable or not. it's just about getting an own and "proving that", "muhh zoomers are retarded!!! and can't beat le epic hard old game like me haha!! I will ignore every flaw because it makes me feel superior to say I am better than zoomers for liking old hard game that I played dozens of times over!! this is definitely comparable to somebody's first time play through and isn't borderline schizophrenic at all to imply they're equivalent!"

kill yourselves. you have nothing after all this, all you can do is jerk yourselves off to your delusions of being right, instead of actually making a substantial challenge to anything I've said. fuck off from harassing me and kill. your. selves.

[Anonymous No.10186817]

>>10186774
Dunno what to tell you but the first and second mud zones function the same. The one with the medkit has the sun shining on it, so it's extra obvious.

[Anonymous No.10186852]

It's a shame this gigantic moron is ruining discussion of TR3.
Question for everyone else: which TR3 level is the best... Aesthetically?

[Anonymous No.10186860]

>>10186852
Luds Gate.
The whole London section is so pretty with those colored lights and stark contrast.

[Anonymous No.10186868]

>>10186860
Intriguing take. I always find the London levels annoying because they look so fake. I can effortlessly handle a remote Pacific island looking like a cardboard model, but Thames Wharf and Luds Gate are like a deepdream AI picture: vague resemblance but nothing identifiable.
Probably because I live in England.

[Anonymous No.10186885]

>>10186868
I like my eyes to get positively violated, like it was the case in many PS1 games.
Madubu Gorge looks great, too

[Anonymous No.10186889]

>>10186852
>It's a shame this gigantic moron is ruining discussion of TR3.

yeah, and it's a shame gigantic morons like you can only have such shallow takes on TR3, but you don't see me complaining. I just talk about what I want, and shut down retards that respond to me or vague post about me like retards.

lmao, can barely get a meaningful discussion going or say anything thoughtful beyond "I didn't like how le level looked!!" imagine speaking about anybody else when you're like this, but I guess zero self awareness and sub 80iq does that. Don't vaguepost about me again. If you want to say something, speak about it without somebody else in your mouth.

else, I'll gladly continue to "ruin discussion of TR3" and continually bring attention to every surprise trap I come across.

[Anonymous No.10186893]

>>10186885
so popping

[Anonymous No.10186906]

>>10186817
*sigh* So I've been thinking how to respond to this, and I'll just get into it. Firstly. Do you understand how evidence works? There HAS to be some term for this in either science, law, philosophy or psychology. You realize what you provided doesn't prove anything? Because it's missing any context to compare itself to? And isn't controlled (please I beg of you, don't tell me you don't understand what a "control" is, regarding evidence lmao) so it literally communicates and substantiates nothing.

Beyond how you presented the evidence, it's just objectively wrong. I genuinely don't know how I have to explain this but firstly. It's obvious that it's mud because we've encountered that looks like that prior already in India. Next, even IF you jump into the mud, you can't drown instantly. Because the way mud has (semi consistently, there HAVE been inconsistent moments) worked as established by the game in previous levels. Is that there are certain sections of the mud where Lara won't drown. So when you step into the mud here. You won't drown immediately, you have to walk forward and see the oxygen bar. In which case you can just walk all the way back to the start. Not to mention that there's already a platform their, which implies that whatever is below it is sus, and even if you don't realize that, you can just use the platform to avoid it entirely and intuitively.

[Anonymous No.10186919]

>>10186889
You know people are baiting you because you fall for it hysterically?
Noone cares if you shittalk TR, we all know the faults. You've done a pretty good job of staying reasonable before the trolly mud trap.
I'm looking forward to your take on THAT part in Antarctica kek.

[Anonymous No.10186927]

>>10186817
>>10186906
The differences are clear If you've ever actually played the game with your brain not turned off. There is no precedent for quicksand. The hut looks EXACTLY like every hut, and the quicksand looks just like every floor of the prior huts. (Also, you realize there was sun above that mudhut too and it still looks explicitly different? So your point is retarded there too.) So you have no reason to think differently just from the initial point you enter the hut. Not to mention that there's a health pack (which you can't get) that suggests it's safe. And when you enter the quicksand you immediately start drowning and the oxygen bar appears. Unlike with the mud.

Combine ALL of these factors and it's not difficult to understand unless your brain genuinely lacks wrinkles, that the trap is a shitty surprise trap. This wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem if it wasn't for the fact that the save system is inherently limited and encourages resource management (its still pretty cringe even with unlimited saves, but tolerable). I even had 4 save crystals prior to all of this and was still pissed off for reasons I've already explained.

I think the fact you sent the webm in the first place has cleared some thing up for me though. You and whoever the other guy is. Are genuinely too stupid and lacking in self awareness to realize how stupid you are. You didn't even understand the differences between mud and still tried to make a point about it. And sent a webm that doesn't even prove whatever point you're trying to make. It's like you genuinely can't see the little nuances that give context and meaning to why the quicksand trap was stupid. Like I genuinely don't think I can reasonably engage in conversation if you're this stupid. No offense. I think that's enough for me, knowing now that the people arguing with me aren't suited for reasonable argument.

[Anonymous No.10186946]

>>10186919
>You know people are baiting you because you fall for it hysterically?

I know what they're doing. Proving and challenging retardation is still meaningful in and of itself. I don't care. I actually care about what I say and what I talk about so I'll defend it earnestly. Eventually these retards will devolve to a point where they have no more cheap points to make or can only name call and then I'll stop responding because there's no longer anything to engage with. I don't know what to tell you? I guess I'm the idiot for having a bunch of vapid losers with shallow capacity to express any indepth thoughts on videogames or anything they beyond "heh! that hard and I beat it!" or "when I was younger! this game was soooo epic!!!" I don't care. I do this for myself and the hopes that there are reasonable people that can engage with or understand what I'm saying.

It doesn't always work, and it isn't always conducive, but I don't really lose anything anyway from typing on a random anonymous website. People always say this: "Only fools argue with idiots, never argue with an idiot" If that was the case, then there would be no arguments, because everyone seems like an idiot at first, and if NOBODY decides to argue based on subjective judgements of who's an idiot, then only the idiots will be left to argue and discuss. My point might have been communicated best, but just think about it harder for a sec, because I'm too lazy to make a better one.

Anyway.
>Noone cares if you shittalk TR, we all know the faults. You've done a pretty good job of staying reasonable before the trolly mud trap.

Don't know what to say about this. I've been reasonable all throughout unless you're using a subjective and arbitrary definition of "reasonable"

>I'm looking forward to your take on THAT part in Antarctica kek.

I've already said if there's enough good, it can outweight the bad and I can tolerate it. My favourite game of all time arguably has worse moments and design choices.

[Anonymous No.10186967]

>>10186852
Just ignore him. Good question though

>>10186868
I actually agree with the other anon too. I love the look of the London levels (except maybe Aldwich). I like that some elements are unidentifiable, as you mentionned, and are more evocative rather than literal. If I had to choose I'd pick Thames Wharf. It is colorful yet eerie, almost dreamlike. >>10186893
illustrates this very well. Post some more please!

I was surprised at how good these games still look when I replayed them recently. They really nailed the art direction. Especially in TR3/4

[Anonymous No.10186968]

Is every TR3 level supposed to have these weird branching paths? I just got to crash site and I've found two separate ways to go, and found the same in India, and something that almost looked like a other path at the beginning of South Pacific but couldn't tell how to get there? I don't know how to feel about it. It kinda makes me anxious of missing content. And I actually don't think it's a good idea, atleast the way my brain understands it. People will say "it's good because branching paths means complex and non linear!" but...if you can never take the other path...then what's the difference really? You're choice isn't a non linear level. Your choice is just between too different linear paths. If you go down one path, it'll still largely be linear and straightforward, but now you've just missed another path.

I don't quite get the point of it. It sounds cool idea in theory but is utterly meaningless in practice If you don't actually get to experience that other path and do things in a directionless order. It just seems like choosing 1 direction out of 2 rather than going in 1 direction, that has multiple directions loop into and intertwine with eachother.

Not sure if I explained this well. I'm also not sure how to feel about this. Words line "non linear" and "complex" can get very nebulous when you get into the thick of things.

Also I'm posting this as proof that nobody ACTUALLY cares about indepth discussion about these games or any game for that matter, since the first instinct will be to skip over it because it's too much words or genuinely hard too think about. I'll either get no response, or a shallow response that doesn't match the same level as depth as this.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing necessarily, sometimes it just is what it is. But it's kind of crazy to me to hear people imply I ruin discussion when I largely contribute the most to it, while offering indepth thoughts and opinions. I wouldn't be tooting my own horn like this if I wasn't put down.

[Anonymous No.10186986]

>>10186967
>Just ignore him. Good question though
kek and as soon as I submit my big paragraph, somebody comes in to prove my point kehehe

>I actually agree with the other anon too. I love the look of the London levels (except maybe Aldwich). I like that some elements are unidentifiable, as you mentionned, and are more evocative rather than literal. If I had to choose I'd pick Thames Wharf. It is colorful yet eerie, almost dreamlike. >>10186893 illustrates this very well. Post some more please! I was surprised at how good these games still look when I replayed them recently. They really nailed the art direction. Especially in TR3/4

...and then proves my point again that the only way people can contribute to discussion on here is by talking about surface level things like how they subjectively interpreted how something looks... *sigh* sometimes I feel like I'm dealing with programmed robots here that can't think outside of their predetermined coded processes. eh whatever this has always been the case throughout history huh? I'm not gunna act like I'm some great thinker, but how many times have you heard of scientists and philosophers trying to share their works with the wider public or their friends and family and getting, shut down, ignored, or dismissed (and sometimes even locked up) because they just can't and won't get it.

I'll even demean myself a bit. the same used to happen back when anime was considered for losers, or nerd culture was unpopular, or the mentally ill, and poor, artists, authors, how many stories have you heard of something was casted outward and aside, turning on its head and arbitrarily becoming popular later on? It's all so arbitrary and pointless, so meaningless. Nobody has the self awareness to ever keep this in mind.

Alright. Time to go play some games :D

[Anonymous No.10187568]

Dear CORE design,

What the fuck? If I hadn't have given up and looked up what to do next after fifteen minutes I would've been here for what I believe to be forever. I tried a couple of these ticket booths once I'd turned the power on but not the ONE booth that actually does anything. I had fully commit to these being set decoration and nothing else. I enjoyed this level until this bit. It didn't ruin my experience but god damn fuck you designers. Aside from that the whole thing was smooth sailing. I remembered any previously closed doors, the maze with all the switches that opened and closed various doors took me just three minutes to figure out, I picked the right direction to go in first so naturally found what I needed next to progress. Overall I had fun. Except this bit. This bit can go to hell.

[Anonymous No.10187607]

>>10187568
when I finally get to this bit. I'll be the true and final decider of whether its truly bullshit or not. the idea that trying all of them isn't an obvious thought sounds absurd to me without context, especially when there have been odd interactable..."objects" i guess? (not sure that's the right word) like the circuits in opera house.

we'll see though. can't wait to get there, so far crash site has been genuinely fun and interesting, I've found like 3 different directions I can go already that all lead to their own thing, feels non linear, open and complex as fuck, I'm digging it

[Anonymous No.10187617]

>>10187607
shit, I posted the wrong image. aghhh fuck it anyway. did you guys use the same strategy as picrel against the dinosaur? I think it's valid asf and I don't feel ashamed at all, in a game with scarce saves that need to be hoarded, and the dinosaur being SO fast that he can catch up to me while I'm sprinting, on top of the fact that he's a one hit K.O, and I'm stingy about using any of my other weapons. All allows me to rationalize this as the best course of action and probably what the developers intended (it's just too convenient). I might fuck around and fight him for real with full health and my mp5 or desert eagle later on when I finish the level if anybody reminds me, since I made a save state right before.

But this fight has got me thinking...wtf did I do against the first dinosaur in TR1? I remember that he was a filter for me because I initially didn't realize you could even kill him since games traditionally don't let you damage big bosses like that except in a cutscene or some shit. Once I figured out you can kill him by watching someone play TR1, I don't remember what I did...I think I must have ran into the temple and baited him out a couple times then went back to the high ground of the temple lmao. I can't imagine fight dudes like this straight out in the open with just backflips and side flips, they too fast and one shot you man, it's crazy...unless you're fighting them with something that's not a pistol I guess, unlike me.

[Anonymous No.10187889]

>>10186986
>by talking about surface level things
Different people like different stuff..wow
Trust me someday you will get absolutely bored by the ''good game design'' trappings of modern games and will appreciate the whacky stuff. Unless you're a staunch /v/letist who will never grow of course.

[Anonymous No.10187894]

>>10186416
Vision issue.

[Anonymous No.10187895]

>>10187617
>did you guys use the same strategy as picrel against the dinosaur
yeah
I read somewhere that flares will distract it, Jurassic Park style, but I never tried it ot

[Anonymous No.10187916]

>>10187568
Is that the PC version?
PS1 version makes it easier it seems.

[Anonymous No.10187925]

finally. I've made it to one of the infamous levels. I give crash site an 8/10, genuinely non linear, open, not exactly complex, but still felt tough to navigate

2 points docked for the raptor enemies being obnoxious and retarded and having shitty hitboxes. also because the game retardedly spawns a raptor out of nowhere sometimes after you complete some task the game considers scripted (like picking up one of the keys, it literally makes ZERO sense where the raptor could come from, I searched the entire area, and last I checked, raptors can't climb, so it's just the game being cringe and shit because it thinks "challenge" and "combat" is necessary. fuck off game, your combat isn't refined enough for you to pull out surprise enemies out of thin air and nobody question it)

Nothing particularly stellar about the level, but a level nonetheless that gives me hope of better to come.

Now. Off to madabu gorge or whatever, fuck if I know what it's called...after I go make some popcorn and chill, because man these games can be exhausting (also, I'm not sure I can keep doing this with save crystals. I now have 7 save crystals saved, I might have to start splurging even if it could be a waste, the repetitive nature the save system encourages really starts to get to me)

[Anonymous No.10187932]

>>10187568
This has to be the worst instance of a poorly placed key item in TR3. Especially when the level is kinda convoluted in the first place. My guess is it had to do with the coding of the game and only being able to trade a key item in ONE place. The only saving grace is that it's actually fairly logical to use the coin on a ticket machine since you know you'll need one for the level. I still got lost for a good 20min before I decided to try all of them in a desperate attempt. It's kinda bullshit

[Anonymous No.10187938]

>>10187889
>Different people like different stuff..wow
>Trust me someday you will get absolutely bored by the ''good game design'' trappings of modern games and will appreciate the whacky stuff. Unless you're a staunch /v/letist who will never grow of course.

*sigh* do people even read? I'm not even mad about this one for some reason. just sad. anyway:

>"I'm not saying it's a bad thing necessarily, sometimes it just is what it is. But it's kind of crazy to me to hear people imply I ruin discussion when I largely contribute the most to it, while offering indepth thoughts and opinions. I wouldn't be tooting my own horn like this if I wasn't put down."

yes. I forgot that people like different things, thank you for reminding me, I hadn't gained self awareness yet. anyway, as I already elaborated in the greentext, what triggered me and spurred this entire spiel was the implication that I was ruining discussion...by going indepth about my thoughts in a way that ISNT surface level and can be tackled with one not responses like "oh? you liked how that level looked? well haha! I didn't lol! that's so interesting!"

I don't think my opinions are necessarily better, I just think objectively, they have more meat to engage with, but I also understand that sometimes people don't want to eat a full course meal, so the value of my opinions diminish based on that fact. It's not me implying my subjective opinions are objectively meaningful, it's me highlighting an objective CHARACTERISTIC of my opinion that indicates a passion, care and thoughtfulness for discussion. I don't ruin discussion. I foster it, and enable it more than anyone because of how much I put into my thoughts. Anybody who disagrees is just imposing their subjectivity or bias onto me.

I'm not saying you have to like me or my opinions, but respect the fact that I care about discussion, that people respond poorly isn't a reflection of me but of them. Galileo wasn't criminal for his ideas just cuz he got locked up

[Anonymous No.10187942]

>>10184878
is that quicksand or diarrhea water, i genuinely can't tell

[Anonymous No.10188038]

>>10187889
Don't respond to the tomb raider schizo pls

[Anonymous No.10188048]

>>10188038
get out of the thread and kill yourself, if you cant contribute to any discussion, then bury yourself alive. nobody was talking to you.

[Anonymous No.10188050]

>>10188048
serious question do you take addys or is this all home-grown psychosis

[Anonymous No.10188134]

Madubu Gorgeous am I right?
What the hell were they thinking with the last stretch. You really need to search for secrets or you're boned in this game.

[Anonymous No.10188145]

>>10188134
At one point I got poisoned by surprise gex, making me use a med kit which made sure I survived the half health drop. But then they filled the pool with crocos, turning the whole thing into trial and error.
Other than that it's one ride of a level.

[Anonymous No.10188156]

>>10188134
>>10188145
I'm usually annoyed by not-skillbased gamedesign. But the limited resources system makes you REALLY fucking nervous at times.
Something I wish I felt more in modern games.

[Anonymous No.10188228]

I beat India and Nevada on PSX 15 years ago but I stopped playing after that, should I pick it up again or should I restart it on PC? Or should I restart it on PSX but this time with an NTSC copy?

[Anonymous No.10188251]

>>10188050
i take your moms tramadol, now fuck off

[Anonymous No.10188912]

I gonna say it. As short and shit Chronicles is, it didn't bore me as much as Last Revelation.
Globe trotting and seeing vastly different environments add so much.
Explains why I was bored of the latest TR trilogy as well.

[Anonymous No.10189320]

>>10188912
found revelations boring too, but I don't think it's the "lack of" globe trotting. I was surprised when I played it and realized how diverse levels could be presented and feel Going from inside a temple to outside with sand on a Jeep, to an outdoor temple, inside with a temple filled with water that you could run on felt varied. Not to mention the obvious train level and Alexandria.

My problem is that levels feel too small and disjointed as well as the loading screens, that you never really appreciate the interconnectedness. Even though I guess it technically makes sense when it loops you back to Alexandria after both the catacombs, and Hall of Demetrius, I didn't feel that impact. The levels just don't feel...connected even though they are.

Then there's the other problem of puzzles being hit or miss. Which one could argue has always been the case with this series, but I'd argue platforming puzzles focused on traversal and navigation are inherently more unique and interesting AND engaging, since it utilizes all of Lara's moveset and capabilities. It would sound like giving more use to Lara's items would be a good thing, but it ends up being fairly shallow and thoughtless. Items don't really have as much depth as movement/mental processing. Those things are far more open and...flexible.

It's the reason why I've never really liked Ocarina of Time and its puzzles I think. A lot of TLR puzzles feel like Zelda puzzles and not Tomb Raider. But there was ONE good puzzle in Lost Library involving the weird star shaped serpent switches. If they wanted to go the route of puzzle solving, I think something like that is much preferable. Not entirely sure though. Even spilling all of this out, I feel like there's something I'm missing about this game that I want to talk about, but I can't think of it.

[Anonymous No.10189521]

>>10187916
>>10187932
By the time I started investigating the ticket booths I had the power back on so everything was lit up. It might have been clearly marked before that and I just danced past it. Still, that's not even the worst part. Later on I encountered a door that was supposed to be open and close behind you once you got past it but for some reason it was closed from the get go for me. So I restarted the level. Same thing happened. Go to hell TR3. I'm gonna beat you but now a little bit out of spite too. Next level has been aight so far. I think it helps I like the urban exploration levels. Probably why I have a higher opinion of Angel of Darkness compared to most.

[Anonymous No.10189630]

is there branching paths that dont interconnect in madubu gorge too? I'm now like permanently anxious of missing stuff by taking one path that seems like it'll go to the wayside over another

[Anonymous No.10189642]

I want a game where I pound a latina pussy and then I wanna EAT

[Anonymous No.10189646]

>>10189320
welcome to baghdad rock city, nigguh

[Anonymous No.10189678]

>>10188134
What kind of bizarre filter was used to render this. Its like both smoothed and pixelated at the same time. It makes my head hurt.

[Anonymous No.10189724]

>>10189678
It's the colorbleed option in vhs pro.
The pixelation is not noticable with crt filters.

[Anonymous No.10189914]

I just got to here and passes a bunch of shit. I legit got carrier by the current and couldn't do anything WTF. I even got to a point where I saw some platforms (and a Boulder in an opening on the platforms for some reason?) and wanted to get out and explore BUT THE CURRENT IS TOO STRONG WTF.

I legit have no idea what I'm doing or how to control this shit. Is there some sort of secret? Am I SUPPOSED to feel like I'm missing a bunch of shir and can't do anything? Or is it just mostly background decorations (like I think I saw a hut I missed)

[Anonymous No.10189967]

>>10189914
Only hint I give is that not all currents are strong despite the look.

[Anonymous No.10189986]

>>10184878
hot

[Anonymous No.10189989]

>>10186774
is this some kind of pasta?

[Anonymous No.10190153]

>>10189989
Just one retard Milhousing too hard.
>>10189630
None of the branches miss anything truly interesting in any level. There's more hub-and-spoke than A or B.
>>10188145
>surprise gex
Kek.
>>10187932
You have one penny. One machine is for 1d tickets and all the others say 2d.

[Anonymous No.10190187]

I beat the first Tomb Raider game!

Honestly, I really enjoyed it. I didn't use any guides or anything and just tried to figure everything out myself. I was quite impressed by the sophistication of the level design, especially compared to modern titles. There's a lot of verticality and thinking spatially needed to progress. I was actually taken aback by how such a primitive 3D game could make me so impressed with some of its environments even almost 3 decades later. Lost Valley, St. Francis' Folly, Santuary of the Scion... all really captivating despite the limitations of the hardware.

I do think the end of the game is the weakest part, as there's a lot of tanky enemies, instant death, and some puzzles that the game engine isn't well suited for. Also, I had a lot of trouble with the controls, even when I got used to them. I felt like the game was constantly eating my inputs or Lara was doing something I didn't want her to do. Also, her basic moveset feels a bit limited, though I guess this is probably something the sequels expand on. Combat is total shite, though that doesn't bother me too much, since it's not supposed to be an action game.

All in all, the game really connected with me. I had a great time, and don't regret finally playing Tomb Raider at all.

[Anonymous No.10190501]

>>10190153
>You have one penny. One machine is for 1d tickets and all the others say 2d.

damn so it actually makes sense and everybody really IS retarded when it comes to these games. lmfao holy shit. I shoulda known when people were telling me that the beginning of India is as hard as temple of Xian. Or when people were saying it's hard to judge ledge grab, or when people couldn't figure out the underwater doors in TR4, but I never had these same problems.

just goes to show once again, that subjective judgements are entirely fucking meaningless, but nobody will care because feelings are just too validating, so they'll destroy conversation and foster a narrative around the game that attracts equally retarded people to propagate it.

anyway.

>Just one retard Milhousing too hard.
>Milhousing

made up word.

[Anonymous No.10190503]

>>10190153
>There's more hub-and-spoke than A or B

the fuck does "hub and spoke" mean? and what's the distinction from A or B? I'm guessing it's just that they converge both to the same path at the end is the difference?

[Anonymous No.10191353]

>>10190503
You have one central area (the hub) and several spokes leading off of it. You visit each spoke in any order you like, but must visit most or all of them. Crash Site is a perfect example.

[Anonymous No.10191375]

>>10190153
>One machine is for 1d tickets and all the others say 2d

Ah so there is a difference after all. What does 1d stand for anyways? Is that a british thing?

[Anonymous No.10191406]

>>10190187
>I do think the end of the game is the weakest part, as there's a lot of tanky enemies, instant death
agreed
>I felt like the game was constantly eating my inputs or Lara was doing something I didn't want her to do
the sequels refine the controls subtly, it does improve with each game
>I had a great time, and don't regret finally playing Tomb Raider at all.
now play 2 + 4 then 3 because its a nigger

[Anonymous No.10191431]

At this point I'm convinced each new TR thread is just the same one guy summoning the TR schizo just for laughs

[Anonymous No.10191472]

>>10191375
No idea why, but d was the abbreviation for pennies pre-decimalisation.

[Anonymous No.10191478]

>>10190501
>everybody really IS retarded when it comes to these games
yes
but to be fair plenty of people (including me) probably went to the remaining gate that needs a key item on the other side of the level and wondered why you can't just climb through it

[Anonymous No.10191532]

>>10191431
Is it the same guy that spergs the fuck out whenever anyone says they don't like TLR?

[Anonymous No.10191730]

>>10191431
I think different zoomers are actually playing these games now because the threads are even popular on /v/.

[Anonymous No.10191748]

>>10183561
With some very precise jumping/bug exploiting you can actually get back to the other route to kill some monkeys and grab some supplies.

>>10183564
> 3/4 of Tomb Raider Chronicles
> Angel of Darkness

[Anonymous No.10191761]

>>10190187
I'm glad you liked it. If you want to keep going try Tomb Raider 2. If you like it, cool, but if you don't like the focus on urban environments and firefights with human enemies than just skip to The Last Revelation, it's the closest thing to a true TR1 sequel. After that play the Rome section of Chronicles, then stop and wonder why we haven't gotten a decent classic TR clone yet.

[Anonymous No.10191773]

What's the best way to play the original Tomb Raider nowadays? I own it on Saturn/PSX however I want it to look like the caps in this thread. Should I emulate and upscale or is there a modded PC version? Thank you gentlemen.

[Anonymous No.10191995]

>>10191353
>You have one central area (the hub) and several spokes leading off of it. You visit each spoke in any order you like, but must visit most or all of them. Crash Site is a perfect example.

This is not remotely what I'm talking about. 90% of early TR3 levels are NOT designed like Crash Site at all. The thing I'm talking about is the stuff in River Ganges or The very first level of South Pacific, where you can find whole alternate paths to the same destination. I don't consider "hub and spoke" to be truly branching paths since...well they're not paths at all, more like little areas surrounding the central area, they don't interconnect or lead to anything. I'm not sure if I explained the distinction well, maybe somebody smarter will have better words for what I mean.

[Anonymous No.10192035]

>>10191773
> Simplest/easiest
Emulate the PS1 version

> Most accurate
Modded PC version

> Most impressive
OpenLara

[Anonymous No.10192325]

>>10192035
>Most impressive
the realistic water and shadows are so cursed

[Anonymous No.10192779]

>>10192325
I like them, likely because I have played the everloving shit out of the Saturn and PS1 versions many times and enjoy tje new aesthetics.

The only thing that sucks is some versions have really shitty/broken shadows due to the "fuck it, just put them wherever" method of placing light sources in the first game.

[Anonymous No.10192973]

>>10191995
>A or B paths
Temple Ruins, Ganges, Coastal Ruins, Madubu (a bit), Lud's Gate
>hub and spoke
Crash Site, Antarctica, RX mines, Tinnos
>linear with potential to get lost
All the rest

[Anonymous No.10192986]

>>10192973
>Temple Ruins

Temple Ruins had it too? The fuck? where? There's no way. That shit was linear as fuck lmao.

>Coastal Ruins

Guessing you mean Coastal Village since Coastal Ruins is TR4

>Madubu (a bit)

Hmm while kayaking? or pre kayaking?

>>linear with potential to get lost
>All the rest

Hm, depending on how it's done it can be...good, I'd TECHNICALLY characterize Palace of Midas under here and that's a Top 5 Tomb Raider level for me, because of its looping and interconnectedness.

But this doesn't bode well for London levels that aren't Luds Gate. I'll just have to see. I doubt (copium) it's linear like Tomb Raider 2 hopefully. But the early levels in India and Nevada haven't done a good job of giving me confidence in that hope.

Time to finish Madubu Gorge when I stop feeling lazy and get over the idea that I'll miss stuff

[Anonymous No.10193116]

>>10192986
Madubu has two ways to get a kayak at the beginning but it's a very minor difference to the overall flow of the level.

[Anonymous No.10193464]

HOLY FUCK CONTROLLING THE KAYAK BECOMES LIKE 10X EASIER WHEN I USE THE DPADS WTF.

I'm actually starting to like the kayak, mastering the currents feels so uniquely satisfying wtf haha, I still have the odd moment where I try to blame the game for me not being careful enough, but man. One I get over that last big fall over the water fall with the save crystal. I think it might become my favourite vehicle moment in the series. Every fall, and turn to avoid traps, feels like a mini puzzle of me understanding the environment (the currents and the water) and Lara's movement (the kayaking) its LITERALLY the philosophy of the platforming puzzles when Lara is normally jumping and climbing around but translated to a different context and control. Its almost brilliant...if it wasn't for the fact that collision in these games is SO FUCKING dogshit.

God, stuff like this makes me imagine how good a classic Tomb Raider remake could be or, if the formula was allowed to evolve in the PS2, what crazy shit we would encounter. But we've already seen attempts at that, and the dilution that comes from it. Seems like for whatever reason. There was something special in the 90s that gave way to the unique way these games play, and no matter what they probably can never be recreated and elaborated on in modern time. Sad, but oh well, ill enjoy it while i can, never played a game quite like this, and it's unbelievably engaging at times.

whew. back to paddlin.

[Anonymous No.10193773]

TR4 is the only kino TR game in every aspect. People love TR1-3 for nostalgia. TR4 had solid game design, and it was a veeeeeeery long game. Bang for buck

[Anonymous No.10193938]

>>10193773
>TR4 had solid game design

if this means what I think it means then...there's a lot that needs to be addressed..but I'm too lazy to right now

[Anonymous No.10193964]

So they added this, but no rolling or quickturn while crouching?

[Anonymous No.10193969]

>>10193464
One of us?
You should give Ape Escape a try if you want novelty.

[Anonymous No.10194026]

Canonical power ranking:
4 > 2 > 3 > 5 > 1 >>>>>>>>>>>> 6

[Anonymous No.10194040]

So im trying to get into old TR after only playing the reboot games
I bought the collection on Steam and have run into a couple issues
1. The controls are absolute ass on PC. I know this game is supposed to really shine in PS2, do I really have to get an emulator and PlayStation controller to do this?
2. The cutscenes are all weirdly shrunken and off-color, is this my hardware fucking up or a limitation of the Steam version?

[Anonymous No.10194261]

>>10194040
Any controller with a D pad will work.

[Anonymous No.10194345]

I tried playing TR3 yesterday, I got the Indra Key and forgot where to go, haven't played it in years. Managed to cross the quicksand pit only to realise it's where the level started and I probably wasn't meant to go there anyway.

[Anonymous No.10194351]

>>10193964
What the fuck. I've had the game for over 20 years and I had no fucking idea you could do this. I'm literally going to boot up my copy now.

[Anonymous No.10194363]

Finished TR3 for the first time
I did not enjoy the new mechanics, crouching/crawling was too slow, sprinting was only really needed very few times, hanging from ceilings was ok I guess. Climbing walls was still incredibly slow.
Levels were from entertaining to full of anti-fun death traps, I save scummed those a lot cause I have not the time to replay sections over and over.
Got stuck and frustrated in many levels looking for the next switch or ledge to grab, I honestly felt much more confused than in TR2, but satisfied when I finally found my way forward. I think playing the levels again in the future knowing where to go would make me appreciate them more.
Absolute favorite level was Aldwych which was surprising since I don't like the urban setting, I replayed it immediately after finishing it and getting stuck in it a few times. I love it, the idea of a secret masonic temple hidden under an abandoned subway station is superb. And the background noise really gave it the eerie mood of an abandoned place. 10/10 level for me.
I like that they gave the last level the creepy Temple of Xian music but the level was kinda wack in comparison. The glowing insects were not very fun.
Anyway moving on to the next one.

[Anonymous No.10194371]

I'm with OP, TR3 is stupidly designed, I believe it caused damage to the rest of the series.

[Anonymous No.10194383]

>>10194345
Literally just found it, I'm a moron.

[Anonymous No.10194392]

I dropped TR3 at the subway level. The whole thing was just way too convoluted for me to enjoy.

[Anonymous No.10194409]

>>10194040
Steam has guides on how to patch them for modern PCs. For 2 you can just install TR2Main
Cutscenes look like shit because they're ps1 games, but they should not look off color

[Anonymous No.10194468]

>>10194026
>1 below fucking Chronicles
Get out.

[Anonymous No.10194479]

>>10194371
It really is a stupid design. Especially when we had CRTs at the time, PC or PS1, it was very VERY difficult to distinguish blocks that are pushable out of no fucking where. I am not saying that it should've spoonfed the player, but the game gives absoulutely no clue about what's going on. It's linear-ish but not really. You simply have no idea about what you are supposed to do in the majority of areas. TR1 and 2 were linear enough to compensate, TR4 was also nicely designed, aside from some backtracking which was still manageable (the last pyramid levels were completely unnecessarily complex and just extends gametime which steals the fun). TR3 is simply a shitfest.

[Anonymous No.10194542]

>the TR schizo is back at it again
Hi Socrates! Reminder to everyone that this guy is so deeply retarded and insane that it is completely pointless to reply to him. He is also unironically trans.

[Anonymous No.10194548]

>>10194479
There is one room where they don't even bother to give the pushable block a different texture. It is just hidden somewhere in the wall but there is no way to see it is pushable, literally no clues. The only way to find it is to get desperate enough to just start pressing x against every wall.

[Anonymous No.10194564]

>>10194479
>Especially when we had CRTs at the time, PC or PS1, it was very VERY difficult to distinguish blocks that are pushable out of no fucking where.
PS1 had z-fighting so you'd always know.
>>10194548
noone complains about illusory walls in dark souls so git gut?

[Anonymous No.10194567]

>>10194548
I was thinking about that room too. It's kind of annoying. The block is actually very easy to find if you light a flare next to it. It's one of the rare instances where ps1 version is easier since the player is more likely to light a flare due to the darkness.

On a side note. I think it's a shame they reduced the duration of the flares in TR3. It added some cool lighting effects but the duration is so short that I only ended up using them in very specific spots.

[Anonymous No.10194568]

>>10194479
>TR4 was also nicely designed

[Anonymous No.10194573]

Wow. They gave Lara quite the boob upgrade in 4.

[Anonymous No.10194576]

>>10194573
her body looks good in 4, but man I can't get over that Super Deformed head

[Anonymous No.10194585]

> Tomb Raider 1
> Atlantian Pyramid
> Climbing the entire level to get to the top, where the Scion is (just across the gap from where you fight the giant torso)

That level is designed like an enormous vertical pillar, and the ground level to Scion platform is the biggest height in the game. I haven't tried it on the PS1 or PC ports, but in the Saturn version the heigh of the platform is so great that if you swan dive off of it Lara will have enough time to scream three full times while falling before she crumples onto the "lava" at the bottom of the level.

There are some areas where she can get partway through a second scream, but as far as I have seen this is the only place where you can make her scream three times.

[Anonymous No.10194605]

>>10194585
Same on PS1, I think everyone as a kid suicided her there just to see how high the level was

[Anonymous No.10194658]

>>10194548
>just randomly try to push everything bro, that's masterclass game design

[Anonymous No.10194739]

>>10194567
For reference. It could be a glitch from the emulator though

[Anonymous No.10194742]

So I played TR1 after fanpatched AoD and I liked the latter way better. The overall lack of story and music kinda sucks and I think I prefer dark urban environments and mutant infested shitholes.
Should I skip right ahead to TR4 or what do TR2 and TR3 do differently?

[Anonymous No.10194771]

>>10194742
>Should I skip right ahead to TR4
TR4 is a bloated boring filler fest. If anything people should skip this.

[Anonymous No.10195016]

>>10194363
lots of issues of skill in this paragraph.

[Anonymous No.10195037]

>>10183561
>THERE WAS A WHOLE ALTERNATE ROUTE THROUGH THE RIVER GANGES?

Yes, Jungle, River of Ganges, Caves of Kaliya, Coastal Village, Crash Site, Madubu Gorge, Thames Wharf, Aldwych, Lud's Gate, The City, and Lost City of Tinnos all have alternate routes.

[Anonymous No.10195061]

>>10194479
I always find comments like this interesting, because they're SO unaware of how much of an analysis of things they're basing on how smooth their brain is and the type of interpretation it leads to. It's like the fact that they don't think or engage with the mechanics, is reflective of how they play. But it doesn't matter because just like with every or any big game that's hard, equally retarded people will flock to the criticism to equally validate their feeling of incompetence "that doesn't ACTUALLY come from them, it's just the game actually" It doesn't take a genius to think of lighting a flare in an already dark area and walk around a bit. I could make other types of argument where there is actually something equivalent in TR2 (people that actually employ critical thinking and arent narrow minded biased retards will remember the chimney in bartoli's hideout) and how you can get a general "inutition" of when to push certain blocks, the same way that if youve ever played dark souls, you can sort of get an inution for SOME illusory walls, but im thinking too much and so the latter point is too much to expect of people this dumb.

There are far more substantial and relevant criticisms that can be made about TR3 than this. Really don't get stuff like this that reflect more about general players stupidity and how they approach games. If you balance and design games solely based on people subjective interpretation of when something is their fault (in most cases which they'll always default to blaming the game because people are biased for themselves lol) Then certain experiences will be diminished on the principle that a player might not find it. This is why puzzles, and "exploration" are trivial in modern gaming, and you have shit like "visual cues" so that you can know when to climb up something in God of War, or shoot a barrel in RE4 (remake)

But people like u don't think that far, and games are still being made for you. I can only hope that changes soon

[Anonymous No.10195070]

>>10195037
>Jungle
>Crash Site
>Madubu Gorge

These don't count as alternate routes imo, especially crash site. I'm fairly certain you can go EVERYWHERE in crash site. As for Madubu Gorge, unless you're talking about the secret behind the waterfall before you get to the kayak then uhhh, I feel like that's way too small of a side detour to count as an alternate route, but idk. And in the case for Kayak routes, the divergences are pretty clear because you can see the alternate routes clearly, or just experience it your first time for being bad

Now jungle? I do NOT remember their being alternate routes at all for that? I've only heard it for everything else you've listed. I'm almost sure there isn't.

[Anonymous No.10195140]

>>10194739
Nah I faintly remember the block being weird on real hardware, too.
But noone would get stumped because of pic related.

[Anonymous No.10195334]

>>10195070
You can skip the entirety of Jungle by treking across the mud area. There's a couple islands scattered about that brings you back up to the surface for air.

[Anonymous No.10195342]

>>10195140
Not sure what I'm supposed to be looking at in your pic

[Anonymous No.10195409]

Movable blocks will always graphically glitch out a little if you move the camera around them

[Anonymous No.10195415]

>>10194573
Her boobs account for something like half of her total polycount. I'm not joking.

[Anonymous No.10195416]

>>10194568
100% your fault for not side-jumping out of the way.

[Anonymous No.10195542]

>>10195415
I believe it

[Anonymous No.10195592]

Man what the fuck.

this alligator or crocodile or whatever it is, is so fucking cringe man -_- also, it's so fucking cringe that you can only leap off of the kayak into water and not onto the platform...RIGHT FUCKING NEXT TO ME. It's like the designed it specifically so that I would have to trial and error this bullshit till I can get past this stupid fucking alligator (or crocodile, I don't fucking know)

[Anonymous No.10195618]

Can anybody tell me what is genuinely wrong with Tomb Raider games sometimes. I've had this happen SINCE Tomb Raider 1, where I'll press the walk button and sometimes the game just doesn't recognize it and just walks me off a ledge instead what the fuck? It happens so rarely that I don't typically complain about it too much, but in a game lime TR3 with its retarded save system, it becomes uniquely aggravating, especially when there are some retards so eager to blame my faults with the game on me.

Does anybody else have this problem? What the fuck is going on man

[Anonymous No.10195654]

>>10195618
I've had TR3 not grab ledges properly after a jump for some reason, like Lara grabs it and immediately lets go of it, falling to her death. Steam version.

[Anonymous No.10195667]

>>10195654
I'm playing PS1 emulator. Don't know about THAT. I'm almost certain I've never encountered that, so that must be a steam/PC specific issue. At the very least, you have infinite quick saves so it not as intolerable for you, obviously I understand it's still annoying to feel like the game is being inconsistent and fudging your inputs, but I gotta restart like minutes away when this shit happens, it's so infuriating ughh man

[Anonymous No.10195702]

About 8 years ago I finished TR3 on PC by save scumming, now I basically remember nothing and am trying it on PS1. I just finished Temple Ruins and this game makes me feel genuinely retarded, also I hope whoever designed the following parts of the level rot in hell
>The room with the two levers where the spike ceiling drops
>The poison dart that is basically a guaranteed hit if you dive into the water after raising the water in the other room
>The room where the 2 boulders drop after you walk up to the opened door
>The room where you have to jump over the blade while running past the closing in spike walls (not bad, but the camera angle changing is a fucking pain)
>The underwater room that just pushes you into the spikes unless you already know they're there and swim to the side
I am already dreading London. I don't even want to think about Antartica yet.

[Anonymous No.10195726]

>>10195702
>>The room with the two levers where the spike ceiling drops

This was the only part of Temple Ruins I enjoyed because it actually required proper execution. It's only ruined by the garbage save system.

>>The poison dart that is basically a guaranteed hit if you dive into the water after raising the water in the other room

I don't remember any room that required raising water levels, but if we're talking about the poison dart that I remember, it's not too bad, but...I'll probably agree that it is trial and error, somebody might be able to argue that you can hear the sound of the dart, but even knowing that, wouldn't necessarily tell you where it's coming from. This has some leeway I think tho.

>>The room where the 2 boulders drop after you walk up to the opened door

It took me a while to realize what you were talking about but ahh, I remember this. I don't remember how I knew they were coming, but I never got hit by these, either you weren't being perceptive enough, or some context is missing.

>>The underwater room that just pushes you into the spikes unless you already know they're there and swim to the side

yeah, this one took a while to figure out. Not sure how to feel about it. I hated all of Temple Ruins so I just have bad feelings about all the rooms. I remember dying to this room a lot. I don't know if I'd call it trial and error though...but man, it's really hard to figure out at first why you're getting pushed, so I'd probably say yeah.

[Anonymous No.10195756]

>>10192035
What mods do you recommend for PC?

[Anonymous No.10195776]

>>10195654
Same anon you were replying to. I just had this happen to me TWICE in a row and I'm fucking livid what the fuck???? What the fuck is wrong with this game man???

[Anonymous No.10195787]

>>10189986
based quicksand fetishist

[Anonymous No.10195914]

okay, so I've died to this jump atleast like 10 times in a row that I had literally ZERO choice but to use a save state to do some testing. This jump is dumb. I wish I could send a video of what it looks like but I'm on mobile and too lazy to make webm's.

Basically. If you jump to the area that's "Not safe" you'll "slip" off the ledge. Basically Lara will grab it, and immediately let go, even if you're holding (A) or (X), the action button for climbing, grabbing, and pressing switches.

When this first happened to me. I thought it was because the game was trying to communicate to me: "If you jump on a ledge where water is running, Lara will just slip" I HOPED. That's what it meant. Because that was the only way I could rationalize it, assuming it wasn't a bug. But after the final time that my patience could tolerate. I made a save state, and jumped to the one marked "SAFE" with ALL the running water that it couldn't possibly be ambiguous...she held on???? what????

I have zero fucking idea what the fucking is happening. You want to know why this is fucking with me so hard? Because this NEVER happened when I first got to this area. I didn't have to worry about slipping off the ledge. I just grabbed onto the "NOT SAFE" ledge like it was fine. But now it's literally never working.

I just said fuck it man. If the game isn't going to be consistent or reasonable. I have ZERO reason to respect its save crystals. And I was planning on using zero save states or the rest of the game too, because of how much of a good mood I was in after the kayaking section and how the save crystals made it tense and fun.

This was so dumb man.

[Anonymous No.10195930]

Update: I just did it again. But I delayed my jump just by the slightest bit this time and it worked??? WTF is the game trying to tell me? I don't get it? If it's basically going "You shouldn't have made that jump in the first place so we're refunding it" Then not only is that dumb because the game doesn't visually communicate it. But also because...I just don't get it? Isn't a running jump always supposed to be 3 grids of distance? What the fuck did I do then? 2 grids and 80% of the last 3rd grid? Man I just don't get it. It's irritating me so much, because now it means there's an aspect of the game that is INHERENTLY inconsistent, but has no tell for why it's inconsistent. Fuck man, that's so frustrating.

[Anonymous No.10195935]

>>10183561
>The Dumb Raider poster strikes again

Whats with these threads

[Anonymous No.10196160]

anybody know if it's actually possible to get through this whirlpool without taking fall damage?

[Anonymous No.10196432]

>>10196160
best I could do was half health damage

[Anonymous No.10196447]

>>10195914
ahh I just played that level, I wish I didn't overwrite that save.
I wonder if it has something to do with enabled analog controls. Can you disable it and try again?

[Anonymous No.10196452]

>>10196447
>I wonder if it has something to do with enabled analog controls. Can you disable it and try again?

Unfortunately lost my save too. The late jump thing was semi consistent.

Are you thinking that maybe with analog controls I unknowingly wiggled a bit in the air and didn't align perfectly? (but even then, that wouldn't make sense since there are multiple jumps in the game where it expects you to jump diagonally onto a ledge crack)

Also how did you know I was using analog sticks

[Anonymous No.10196456]

TR3 was my favourite for alternate paths.
For the longest time I didn't know the was a second kayak. I always found the one at the beginning of the level first and only found 1 secret.

[Anonymous No.10196475]

>>10196452
When I play in analog mode, I do random sidesteps, so I thought it maybe interferes at the wrong time.

>Also how did you know I was using analog sticks
>HOLY FUCK CONTROLLING THE KAYAK BECOMES LIKE 10X EASIER WHEN I USE THE DPADS WTF.

[Anonymous No.10196496]

>>10192035
Thanks anon. I opted for PSX emu and it looks nice. I'm up to level 6 doing a couple of levels a day.
Having last played this game when I was 7 years old I never had an appreciation for the precision of controls (and how they behave relative to the tiles) and intricate level design that's in this first game. And the music, how it triggers in the context of the level is incredible when you compare it to what else was coming out in 1996.
Realise I'm stating the obvious to TR fans here but I would say it's underappreciated compared to other lesser games nowadays.

[Anonymous No.10196512]

>>10196496
>And the music, how it triggers in the context of the level is incredible when you compare it to what else was coming out in 1996.
I even mogs modern games that start playing the same epic zimmercore for 5 seconds when you fight an elite cockroach and then goes back to generic exploration musac rinse repeat.
Less is more.

[Anonymous No.10196768]

PSX versions are superior to PC versions. Also TR3 is example of crappy game design. Play TR1,2,4 and forget about the rest.

[Anonymous No.10196850]

Just beat The River Ganges without any Save Crystals, Medipacks or deaths in one sitting, which was actually refreshing coming from Temple Ruins. Guessing the "alternative" path is when you can either go up the hill or outside across the the rock to cross the river? I did the former but the quad section wasn't bad at all, sad I missed out on some secrets though (did get the one around the waterfall, I thought it was where I actually had to go).

[Anonymous No.10196858]

>>10196768
What's up with with people shitting on TR3, but recommending TR4?

[Anonymous No.10197171]

TR3 is good because it's so obtuse. Every small progression feels like a satisfying discovery and enhances the feeling of exploration. Most zoomzooms won't get this because games have been easy as piss for 20 years.

[Anonymous No.10197361]

My favorite vtuber hag is playing TR1 in two hours! She's at Tomb of Tihocan iirc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_gHwHH0Fx0

[Anonymous No.10197804]

>>10196858
It's just people that unironically got hardcore filtered. TR4 is recommended because it's SUCH an easy and generic game that they don't actually have to engage with any of the mechanics half the time. Instead of platforming puzzles you get generic action adventure rooms with zelda/Uncharted tier puzzles. And Instead of long winded complex puzzlebox/non linear levels. We just have "use crowbar on X random thing that is among a bunch of other random things that gives no reason to think you'd use crowbar, and then once you get past that single obtuse wall, everything else after becomes easy and linear"

I played Tomb Raider 4 when I was frustrated and tired of TR3's bullshit and initially praised it for atleast being unique and different, because that's the easiest praise to give something at first. BUT I soon realized that "change" isn't inherently good, and you can look focus on other important stuff for it.

TR4 was just so surprisingly and unbelievably boring. The disjointed small levels don't feel satisfying to "figure" out because you typically just need ONE thing in the level and they can often be transitional levels that you can't actually explore...naturally. Like I was so disappointed when I went to Coastal Ruins, saw everything, and realized that everything was locked behind a predetermined path.

I think the people that like TR4, are the people that don't actually appreciate all the unique aspects of Tomb Raider between 1 and 2. TR3 goes hardcore and elaborates on everything established in those games: Non linear levels, hiding switches and items in non obvious places so you actually have to look thoroughly (established in TR1 the most) Weapons being more substantial, Vehicles being WAY more thought out and puzzley. There are genuinely new mechanics that elaborate on core Tomb Raider gameplay like traps, platforms, items etc.

Tomb Raider 3 was unabashedly Tomb Raider, and that admittedly allowed for some problems. But I respect it nonetheless.

[Anonymous No.10197874]

>>10197804
>Non linear levels, hiding switches and items in non obvious places so you actually have to look thoroughly
Ah yeah those hidden pushable blocks that forces you to test every pixel in the game, epic design really

[Anonymous No.10197878]

>>10196858
TR4 is a better videogame.

[Anonymous No.10197914]

>>10197874
Nice argument. Good thing it means nothing, and has no objective basis. Try not being retarded again. Arguments that reference your subjective recollection of something are the most convenient and...oh yeah! I think there's a specific word for it..."circular logic!" aha! I'd prefer you not respond again since not only do you not objectively have a point because you're genuinely retarded. But you also skipped over every other point that is far more egregious regarding TR4 like the crowbar hunting that goes on. Whereas if youre NOT retarded you can consistently figure out what blocks to push in TR3 without projecting the failure of your subjective experience with the game as the fault of it. But I shouldn't even mention this because you conveniently skipped over it for a very clear reason. You're disingenuous and bad faith. Do me a favour and kill yourself if you can't engage in conversation in good faith.

[Anonymous No.10198079]

>>10197804
>Non linear levels, hiding switches and items in non obvious places so you actually have to look thoroughly
Not sure how much you played, but Cairo(the bike level) does that. After that it becomes dull again.

[Anonymous No.10198096]

>>10197878
It has some memorable levels, but also a shitton of crapfiller. I'm still fucking angry at the trainlevel I had to do for the crowbar needed later.

[Anonymous No.10198245]

>Enjoying Nevada Desert
>Fall into the water
>Back to the start
I am NOT wasting another crystal on this level, I already did making it to the top of the cliff because I was too stupid to work out what to do the first time.

[Anonymous No.10198325]

>>10194573
Always hated that character model. She was no longer the tough, outdoor survivalist adventurer I knew. They made her look like a porn star.

[Anonymous No.10198436]

London...here I come

I just love the fact that whenever people want to shit on TR3 they mention all of London instead of just specific areas like every other region lmao.

South Pacific verdict? 2/4 good levels.

Coastal Village: 3/10
Crash Site: 8/10
Madubu Gorge: 9/10 (particularly liked the final climb back up through the level, seeing all the places you passed through on your kayak was genuinely pretty good level design, I wish I didn't have the problem with the ledge grab, or I would have enjoyed and appreciated it more)

Temple of Puna: Eh/10? It was too short and trial and errory, not bad because it was short, more like I barely remember it and I just finished it.

Im going into London with 13 save crystals. This is where I will finally resist the urge to stop hoarding them and delete all save states permanently.

[Anonymous No.10198443]

>>10198436
Have fun with Lud's Gate. Spoilers, you won't. The only good part of London is the outside area.

[Anonymous No.10198476]

>>10198443
Let's hope I'm better enough to enjoy it. I'm playing through the PS1 emulator and I've heard the level is worse on PS1 due to save crystals (obviously) and weird lighting? God, I hope I enjoy this so bad, so I can rub it in everyone's faces.

[Anonymous No.10199190]

>>10198476
Why would anyone care?

[Anonymous No.10199305]

>>10199190
I'm not asking anyone to, I'm responding to someone and making a statement about the game, my expectations and my desires. Because I can.

[Anonymous No.10199316]

>>10198476
> God, I hope I enjoy this so bad, so I can rub it in everyone's faces.
Congrats, you just passed the sadomasochism test

[Anonymous No.10199384]

>>10198443
>The only good part of London is Aldwych
Fixed

[Anonymous No.10199398]

>>10198436
>Im going into London with 13 save crystals.
wtf how rarely have you been saving
did you replay levels to save them up?

[Anonymous No.10199424]

Footi is doing some glitched speedruns of TR2 on Twitch right now if you want to see how broken the games are.
https://www.twitch.tv/footi

[Anonymous No.10199452]

>>10186598
Rage finished. Didn't count.

[Anonymous No.10199463]

>>10186968
You can play the game twice dummy.

[Anonymous No.10199871]

>>10199452
>Rage finished. Didn't count.

The fuck does this mean? Should I even take this seriously? lmao

[Anonymous No.10199894]

>>10199398
>wtf how rarely have you been saving did you replay levels to save them up?

I'm very stubborn and 90% of my complaints come from using a save crystal like ONCE (or twice) per level. But I won't lie and say I didn't use save states for some moments the game fucked with me, like the ledge I grabbed and slid off of, or if the game was being stupid enough in some way. A lot of the save crystals, is just about patience. Atleast for the early levels, very few stretches are actually challenging, there will almost always be one or two surprise thing or trap that unexpectedly gets you, and then everything else is literally just about going from A to B, it's tedious more than anything, and for levels like Area 51, I did it completely with no save states cuz I forgot they existed I think. And that was probably the most bullshit and frustrating level I've come across, yes, even more than Madubu Gorge.

The game wastes your time more than anything. If I did use save states, I'd have maybe 9-10 crystals instead, I personally don't really find the difference meaningful. Madubu Gorge DUMPS crystals on you if you seek out fighting the currents and some secrets will net you crystals in general too. That's about how I've gotten to where I'm at. Infact, because London is COOL AS FUCK. I just found another way, that led me all the way to the bottom safely, and the game rewarded me with a crystal. London is already looking good.

[Anonymous No.10199964]

You guys saw the new fanmade TR Legend demake?
https://www.twitch.tv/elwyyra

[Anonymous No.10199971]

you not supposed to take this path if you 100%ing
so yes
tr3 is badly designed

[Anonymous No.10200023]

>>10199971
I wonder what goes through somebody's head to think that alternate paths are bad design because you can't 100%, like I can't even begin to think it's worth dissecting just because of how little self awareness or critical thought you must possess to say something so narrow minded.

brilliant discussion we get to have here on reddit- I mean 4chan

[Anonymous No.10200028]

>>10199964
Oh wow I just accidently clicked on a walkthrough of this and closed it thinking it was Mists of Avalon.
Day is saved.

[Anonymous No.10200448]

>>10200023
good level design wouldnt force you to take only single path. it would either intertwine the secrets with both paths or make total number of secrets more to account for both paths

[Anonymous No.10200452]

>>10199964
>TR Legend demake?
you mean psp port?

[Anonymous No.10200506]

Well one anon actually talking about their journey through the game? How's London treating you? I finally gave up on TR3 at that point. To be fair I did do 1 and 2 right before this so maybe I'm getting the same level of burnout the devs did. I picked up some embalming fluid, reached this one massive room with a big ass statue in the middle and just lost all will to play. Good for the series though really, took me two and three quarters of the series before I felt that.

[Anonymous No.10200713]

>>10200506
NTA but in another thread they said they went all the way down to the save crystal and loved it.
I guess there will be another ragequit incoming since it's the wrong way kek. Oh London.

[Anonymous No.10200770]

>>10194568
skill issue

[Anonymous No.10200772]

Area 51 and London were just designed retardedly. I hate tr3 just because of them. Jungle, india, even arctactica were just fine. I just get extremely bored of those fucking pointless london levels, the only reason I refuse to replay that shit.

[Anonymous No.10200794]

>>10200772
London is the only levelset were you can get lost. I hecking love it.

[Anonymous No.10200974]

>>10200772
I'm supremely glad TR3 wasn't made for retards like you that care more about your retarded replays than good, complex and interesting level design. It's honestly a travesty if London happens to be the only place that is truly hard to navigate and get lost in. I think I'd actually cry if when I finish London, I end up finding that out. The fact that this retard considers Antartica "fine" when India and the entire Jungle were garbage for being inoffensively shit. Isn't reassuring.

London has been the best level so far that's actually made me have to think and understand my environment to progress in a LOOOOOOONG time. Like almost since TR1 Greece long.

[Anonymous No.10201000]

>>10200974
Don't worry, at least 1/3rd of Antartica is n o t o r i o u s and you still have the lost artifact levels.

[Anonymous No.10201001]

You know, for a retro board where I assume posters to be older than the average, you guys "debate" like high school teenagers.

[Anonymous No.10201006]

>ganges
>a whole river of poop
checks out

[Anonymous No.10201007]

>>10200448
>"good level design wouldn't x"

the fuck are you talking about lmao? you don't get to decide that arbitrarily lmao, and it's not like you can actually give any reason beyond "I don't like that I miss le secret!!!" lmao. I don't even like the alternate path too, because I just don't like the idea of missing content, but it's not exactly like the game loses something for it. It's largely like a fairly typical linear type of TR level with it. Except you just have alternate paths. There's nothing inherently bad design about it, it's not like the paths suffer quality necessarily for having being split, they're just different ways of progressing.

Frankly, I'd be more interested if they DID make it intertwine, and complex, but I'm at London, and for some reason it feels like it took them till Crash Site and Madubu Gorge to really get interesting with level design. That's when I noticed level design really started to feel different. My biggest disappointment with TR3 was that it initially just felt like the typical boring TR1 and 2 levels. I think I HAVE a right to complain about that (because I've been complaining about them since even before playing TR3) I think your complaint is superficial and just a way to shit on TR3.

Alternate paths are fine. Fuck your stupid secrets, I don't care about completionists, they're some of the most degenerate losers of the gaming community, that play the game DELIBERATELY wrong, and tarnish its raw experience, almost equivalent to speed runners. I bet you'd call London shitty design anyway, so you really have no leg to stand on complaining about no "intertwined or interconnectedness" like I've been.

shiné

[Anonymous No.10201019]

>>10201001
millenial boomers did grow up with harem anime you know

[Anonymous No.10201025]

>>10201000
>you still have the lost artifact levels.

not sure I'm interested in playing expansions, which one would you consider the best out of the first 3 games? I've heard people that didn't like TR3 that ended up like LA and stuff, not sure what to think about that, since the type of people that liked LA might have hated London, and whether you like or hate London is starting to become my filter of whether you're retarded or can appreciate level design that makes sure you get lost.

I remember one of the few times (in the many TR threads I've been in) somebody said something good about London, seeing them actually describe it in a way I could understand that wasn't just a vague "it was horrible!!! terrible game design!!!" they said it's like a dark souls 1 level...before dark souls 1. And that's like the greatest compliment of level design I could ever hear from anyone. It's very telling that fromsoft doesn't design levels like that anymore, since the ONLY good level in DS3...is a level that people constantly shit on for EXPLICITLY being hard to navigate and easy to get lost in...Demon Ruins.

I remember getting to this level and enjoying DS3 for the first time ever (it shit the bed at the end but still) then going online and being surprised by how people viewed it. I thought dark souls fans liked getting lost in complex levels? That's when i learned that everyone lies and just says DS1 has good level design without actually appreciating it because it's like the hip thing to do I guess? It's funny how everyone shit on DS2 for having shit level design then end up swallowing DS3's dick anyway. Makes the entire community feel superficial asf.

So conclusion: Level design where you get lost filters everybody. I appreciate people like:
>>10200506 That atleast have the self awareness to be upfront and just admit that big complex spaces that make them feel lost are exhausting. I can understand that. I don't mind subjectivity, when it doesn't pretend to be objective.

[Anonymous No.10201052]

>>10201025
Given that you accept such spaces are exhausting, and the vast majority of people do not enjoy being exhausted, and that games are supposed to be enjoyable: how can you defend deliberately choosing to make such levels?
As an addendum: London and Nevada irk me because they are not only disorienting in terms of navigation but also motivation. Nevada at least has the impetus of "I'm getting out of this prison" but Thames Wharf gives you no sign of what success or failure might even be. Why is St Paul's important? South Pacific has the right path feel right, and Antarctica is even better at it.

[Anonymous No.10201073]

Anyone fucked around with Angel of Darkness? Should I wait for this "definitive edition" to be finished or is the "restoration project" good enough? I guess the definitive edition has most of restoration projects changes included but it's a "demo" whatever that means in this context.

[Anonymous No.10201094]

>>10201025
Sorry I played LA 15 years ago and I faintly remember liking it, but I can't tell if it holds up.
TR3s London is my favourite and from what I read the level designer did the Cairo levels in TR4 as well. It's not a maze, but it's a filter for sure.

[Anonymous No.10201137]

>>10201094
>TR3s London is my favourite and from what I read the level designer did the Cairo levels in TR4 as well.

Is it thr infamous, all knowing, all powerful, greatest level designer tomb raider has ever seen, that created the best level in TR2 and (almost) saved the game with it? Richard Norton? I might actually play TR4 again just to get to the Cairo levels atleast

[Anonymous No.10201162]

>>10201137
Richard Morton did do Temple of Xian and the South Pacific Levels in TR3 and is listed as lead level designer of TR4, however Andy Sandham did London and Cairo.
It hard to tell who did how much. Fucking collaborations.
Cairo is worth a try at least.

[Anonymous No.10201189]

>>10201162
damn, that's reaaaal interesting, no idea who this Andy guy is but he sounds interesting, Madubu Gorge is the only part of London that screams Richard to me. Luckily South Pacific is where TR3 started to get interesting for me, so that's good.

I'm surprised TR4 is SO boring even all the way up to Alexandria with Richard being the lead designer, you really make a good point about how it's hard to tell who did how much. I'll still play TR4 for Cauro, though I've heard the game drops off like a cliff after that so I doubt my opinions on TR4 will change too much.

[Anonymous No.10201216]

>>10201189
>I've heard the game drops off like a cliff after that
oh yeah, makes me wonder why people prefer TR4 over TR5.
Even though the devs of TR5 called it a cashgrab, it's not all bad.

[Anonymous No.10201238]

>>10201216
>oh yeah, makes me wonder why people prefer TR4 over TR5.

its the "TR1 IS THE ONLY GAMES WITH TOMBS!!!!!" crowd, TR1 fans are weirdly obsessive about tombs because they don't like diversity and variety of gameplay and are "atmosphere" over gameplay retards. Also TR4 is EXTREMELY easy and simple overall like TR1 was. It just has very arbitrarily obtuse moments.

I finished TR1 thinking the latter half of the game started to feel too easy, simple and linear/not hard to navigate. It's gameplay TR4 aside from Cairo I guess, is just about as simple, and it's almost always in some enclosed temple or tomb or whatever. Honestly other than that, I can't see why TR4 gets credit for being "closest" to TR1. It has like the least platforming puzzles in the series, which is like the core unique gameplay TR1 established. It also feels more generally generic action adventure in its progression and lacks the puzzle box level design as well it feels like (but this might be debatable I guess).

But yeah, basically TR4 gets credit for being "the most like TR1". I almost never see the game praised on its own merit. (because it's boring and dull as fuck even with all the new mechanics)

[Anonymous No.10201245]

>>10201216
>Even though the devs of TR5 called it a cashgrab, it's not all bad.

Man, this is reminding me of old /v/ tomb raider threads. I met and heard so many interesting opinions there, I wish I could check them out again but they're probably deleted. Anyway I remember some dude saying TR5 is actually the best in the series and lambasting TR4. The diverse range of opinions fans have on these games is SO funny and refreshing. You reminded me that he convinced me to not skip Chronicles, thanks

[Anonymous No.10201404]

>>10201245
Found it, this is what he said kek:

>"Objective Facts.
Tomb Raider Chronicles is the best classic tomb raider overall. Most people hating it haven't even played it and the savegame bug only happens in ONE location in the final level ONLY.
Tomb Raider 3 has the best level design and atmosphere
Tomb Raider 2 has the best enemies, final boss and action.
Tomb Raider 1 is comfy but too easy, It's good but not the best classic TR.

>Tomb Raider Last Revelation is overrated as fuck, the most boring and ugly Tomb Raider game ever created. 33 levels in fucking egypt with the same yellow brown walls and floors, most boring puzzles and levels, game is beautiful in the first half but becomes butt ugly in the latter half when the cairo section starts and every quality about the game takes a huge nosedive.
Last Revelation is the most overrated game I've ever seen in history of Vidya."

[Anonymous No.10202127]

>>10201404
>>10201245
Chronicles is really short, yet has good level variety, the opposite of TR4. Don't expect any mazes though aside from some parts with young lara.

[Anonymous No.10202208]

>>10201073
Pc might be better if you use keyboard and mouse, but on PS2 it is frustrating. It looks like it plays like classic lara but it doesn't. They introduced some botched momentum thing with the analog stick and sometimes she will suddenly break out into a sprint and other times she won't. The amount of times I sprinted off ledges and had to sit through loading screens was unbelievable. It's just messy.

[Anonymous No.10202371]

Legend Lara didn't ragequit TR3.

[Anonymous No.10202494]

>there are people who unironically defend TR3 london mess

[Anonymous No.10202497]

>>10201073
I only like it for nostalgia value because I mindlessly played it back then, otherwise it's a terrible game full of bugs. They "tried" to do something but they just couldn't deliver.

[Anonymous No.10202524]

>>10201007
nice reddit blogpost

[Anonymous No.10202525]

>>10202494
not a mess linearlover

[Anonymous No.10202530]

Pretty neat, but it has the same problem as Legend with the very basic exploration.

[Anonymous No.10202590]

holy fuck I'm lost in thames wharf. I've checked every obvious direction and path I could find and I'm genuinely lost and have no idea where to go or what to do. for the first time since TR1 I'm fucking lost. I can't believe it. I actually can't believe it. haha this is great, this is so fucking great, it actually almost feels like a dark souls level but with platforming...and puzzles...platforming puzzles. Am I going to experience kino if I go further?

[Anonymous No.10202620]

Okay, so this is how I found my way to a new path.

I'm not sure if it's the intended way, since I had to take fall damage to fall down. I didn't even IMAGINE that there was a whole area behind the rooftops, I only put an idea together once i saw the black metal platform on the far right, and realized I could back flip to reach it. I have zero idea where I'm going, for all I know this isn't even the right way, but I can only trudge on.

(this also revealed to me that you really COULD get to that yellow crane that I noticed in the beginning and was wondering how to get to, holy fuck, everything about this level is connecting slowly in my head.)

[Anonymous No.10202629]

no, the real london kino level is aldwych

[Anonymous No.10202649]

>>10202620
At this rate you'll find one of the out of bounds shortcuts rather than the intended way kek.
You take negligible damage if you do a running jump over the slope at the start of the level

[Anonymous No.10202702]

>>10202629
Amazing how they managed to pull off bonkers 1.5 hour levels in TR3 while TR4 is filled with 10 minute filler. Apparently making levels shorter was something they wanted to do by request. Big mistake if you ask me. But then again if it allowed for some visual variety in TR4 it could have worked.

[Anonymous No.10202853]

>>10202629
holy fuck. London is going to be kino after kino isn't it. I'm STILL fucking lost, I found this weird platform and hole, but it's fucking with me since I can't access it normally. This level is so layered it's breaking my brain

[Anonymous No.10202875]

Like, look at this shit I found. What the fuck is this platform doing here lmao??? I see NO way to get onto it, except for the way I'm showing, which I did. You can survive the jump if you have atleast a little over 50% health. The NEXT jump to the hole though, you'll straight up die. There's a ladder inside the whole on the opposite end of where your jump is facing and will take you. I figured to myself "oh you're probably supposed to get there some other way and climb up from the inside.

But then that made me wonder, how? And what the fuck is the point? There will be barbed wire as soon as you climb out. And it still doesn't explain the metal platform you can jump onto from where I am in this picture. I don't get it. I want to move on, but it feels like there's something I'm missing.

I already tried coming in down into the hole from the slop, but I just end up falling into the barbed wire anyway

[Anonymous No.10202887]

>>10202629
Saturn owners should be celebrating they only got the first game.

[Anonymous No.10202998]

>>10202887
What did you mean by this

[Anonymous No.10203007]

>>10202875
I just got the point of the crane section. Wow.
There is so much stuff to miss in TR3.

[Anonymous No.10203021]

>>10203007
I'm still lost lmao, I legit can't wrap my brain around the level, I cant figure it out lmao. I'm taking a break to eat and watch some videos and hopefully my subconscious turns some cogs in my head and figures something out

[Anonymous No.10203139]

>>10202853
>This level is so layered it's breaking my brain
I think London is the only instance in the series where finding a secret makes you frustrated. because you missed the right way lol
Btw if you find all secrets in the game you unlock an extra London level. It's unfinished though.

[Anonymous No.10203431]

>>10201073
Play the restoration project, it's pretty good. I'm not a fan of Lara's face in the definitive edition.
There's also somebody working on "AoD 1.5" with updated graphics and additional areas/levels but it'll still take a while.
https://twitter.com/realfreakraider/status/1666764747314716673

[Anonymous No.10203783]

>>10202875
Don't read if you're still stuck!
That's actually a pretty huge skip you found, but usually you only realise it after doing the ''correct'' way before. If you want to see more of the level pick up that medkit in pic related and take a look around.

[Anonymous No.10203826]

>>10202875
Ha! That's literally how I skipped half the level my first time through. I couldn't discern the proper route so took that jump in exchange for a small health loss and after that the direction I picked took me to the end of the level. I thought "what? it can't be that short" and replayed it only to discover I completely passed an entire puzzle involving filling giant tanks with water. Kind of neat to do that on accident I suppose.

[Anonymous No.10203898]

have you seen Lara's springy caucasian melons

[Anonymous No.10203945]

>>10203826
>Kind of neat to do that on accident I suppose.

As much as I don't like missing stuff, I think it's a testament to how truly, "open"? the level is designed? non linear? I genuinely don't know how to define TR level design sometimes, it's just so unique. It's not "open" like an open world with random offshoot places in either direction almost like a theme park. It's more like a genuinely fully realized place and structure. But ultimately, progression in these games is following an order of actions to further unlock and progress through a level in complex, ways. But can something like that TRULY be called linear when you can still get lost and not know which way to go? Also there's this implication that "non linear" actually means complex, but the more "open" or "non linear" something is. If it's not carefully designed, it just makes exploration easier, since you can just go in any direction and you'll eventually atleast find something or a way to progress. If you don't have to follow a specific order and actually understand your environment and how to access places that don't seem accessible, then it can feel JUST AS straightforward as "linear" games.

Man, these games are just so fascinating to talk and think about to me.

I'll return to my initial point though. I think it's a testament to how "freely" (maybe that's a better word?) and interconnected the level is designed that you can accidentally find a way to skip large parts of it just by naturally exploring lmao. Even though I hate being able to miss stuff, it's commendable looking at it from the designer perspective.

(also, how the fuck did you survive that drop? i think I'm gunna try it again. I swear I made sure I had full health when I did it, but still just died, couldn't find a way through)

[Anonymous No.10203961]

oh, I just realized why I keep dying from that fall even with full health. there are barbed wires at the bottom lmao.

if I can find a way to the platform next to the wires I'll be gucci. even if I make it, I'll probably still do over the level the intended way (if I can even find it lol)

[Anonymous No.10203983]

Goddamn TR4 is as symmetrical as that autist was saying the other day. I can't stop noticing it.

[Anonymous No.10204004]

>>10203983
how far in are you? I didn't notice it all the way to Alexandria hall of Demetrius, and it didn't really pose any gameplay problems for me (cuz I'm not autistic or retarded)

[Anonymous No.10204010]

>>10204004
Just started the train level but I'm gonna stop for a while, getting a little burnt out playing the first three back to back
Yeah I don't care about symmetrical rooms but I do notice them because of that post, there's definitely a lot of them

[Anonymous No.10204017]

>>10203783
I'm not gunna read this, but if this telling me about the thing I have to do with triggering the green platform to go horizontal so I can fall down below and crawl through a crawl space and turn on a switch. I've already done that. My problem is that, I can't find where the fuck the switch it opened up, is. Guess I just gotta keep explorin

[Anonymous No.10204030]

oh my God, I'm a fucking genius. I just put two and two together and realized that I can (probably, haven't tested it yet) ledge grab onto this somehow and shimmy to that platform on the far end that looks like the way forward. I already saw like a whole area behind that wall from above. It HAS to be the way. Bravo game (imagine it doesn't work tho kek)

[Anonymous No.10204037]

GODDAMN, IM SO FUCKING INTELLIGENT, SO THOUGHTFUL, SUCH A VISIONARY. I fucking did it. The cogs WERE turning while I took a nap. Call me the fucking **Thinker** because I solved the level. No cheat, no walk through, I can now look at that anon's spoilered message. FUCKING BRAVO GAME FOR MAKING ME FEEL SMART

[Anonymous No.10204038]

>>10204030
imagine getting stuck on that

[Anonymous No.10204081]

>>10204038
you don't get it. it doesn't look obvious when there are a dozen directions and shit you can jump onto and latch onto. especially when you haven't encountered ledges that look like that typically.

but frankly, I shouldn't really care about your "opinion" anyway, it's not like it's saying anything meaningful, or backed by anything objective and obviously comes from a place of ignorance :D I will continue to enjoy the level now, bye :p

[Anonymous No.10204308]

I liked this puzzle. I like puzzles like these alot more than the ones in TR4, because it feels like it incorporates practical or realistic thinking, while also taking advantage of the actual established mechanics of the game and Lara's movement. There's an actual gameplay element of pushing the block fast enough and orienting Lara to avoid the electric robot machine or whatever. Like the platforming puzzles. I like puzzles that are also actual gameplay, and not just "random abstract thing you do to progress" if that makes sense.

Shortcutting that card reader with an electric boi, makes sense.

Only reason I can think of that people like TR4 puzzles more, is because they're less unique (in a Tomb Raider way) and are more traditional and typical. Calling any TR game between 1-3 a "puzzle" game has always been a sort of odd thing, because they way "puzzles" work in these games is very non traditional or typical, it's more so about LITERALLY practically progressing, through exploration, platforming, or manipulating the environment (blocks and switches) So that's my thought about it

[Anonymous No.10204406]

>>10187942
It's diarrhoea water. It is impossible to sink into quicksand, so it can only be oozing diarrhoea sludge, the high concentration of gasses causes you to faint and sink.

[Anonymous No.10204786]

>>10204004
NTA but I noticed that too when I played TR4 after you mentionned it. There's also the fact that some rooms are just copy-pasted which did pose some gameplay problems for me. Still the best looking TR but it has some issues

[Anonymous No.10204951]

>>10204030
>>10204037
Love how they guide you with blue lights, but also place a decoy save crystal in a dead end.

[Anonymous No.10204959]

>>10186927
have you consisted getting better at games?

[Anonymous No.10205001]

>>10204959
Modern gamers just lack the critical thinking needed for these games

[Anonymous No.10205015]

>>10204959
>>10205001
boomer or zoomer, NOT getting filtered by London is the only thing that matters

[Anonymous No.10205018]

>>10204959
Nice English sentence, retard.

[Anonymous No.10205384]

Realizing that I could have skipped this entire level if I didn't tunnel vision so hard on jumping into that hole...is fucking with me. I had it. I even jumped onto the obvious ledge that was the only thing I could grab onto (after multiple times of tunnel visioning on the hole.) But I died because when trying to jump up the rooftop slopes I just slid back down into the barbed wire. if I just DIDNT tunnel vision and attempted that direction again once or twice more, I likely would have realized there's one part that's safe to jump up to that won't slide you back down...

and honestly I think it would have been worth it. Because after the whole beginning area of thames wharf, the level got so boring. It honestly reminded me of TR4, but with a better puzzle. I think I'm starting to realize that I just REALLY don't like VERY VERY indoor levels, we're there's almost zero platforming, and it's just running around hitting switches and triggering environmental interactions in a linear fashion.

THIS. honestly might have made me realize even clearer why I found TR4 so boring. Almost EVERY level is basically the second half of thames wharf once you get inside. Linear corridors and hallways, where you collect items and hit switches in order. No platforming puzzles, no having to look around and understand your environment. None of the elements that make Tomb Raider such a UNIQUELY engaging and satisfying experience (at times).

Honestly, this is the biggest problem with TR overall for me. Consistency.

You'll experience brilliant levels like: St.Francis Folly, Palace of Midas, Venice, Barkhang Monastery (not exactly brilliant, but fun still) Temple of Xian, Crash Site (ish) Madubu Gorge. And then you'll also experience shit like Atlantis, Natla Mines, all of Egypt (controversial but true imo) Every single TR2 underwater level, Tibetan Foothills, honestly, basically ALL of TR2 except for the good ones I mentioned, and then you have all of India, Area 51, Coastal Village.

[Anonymous No.10205390]

>>10205384
fucking stupid man, forgot picrel cuz this dogshit site crashed my last type up and I forgot

[Anonymous No.10205393]

>>10204010
>>10203983
If you're only at the train level, you have seen NOTHING of the symmetry and mirror design yet.

t. symmetry autist

[Anonymous No.10205430]

>>10205384
To finish up my point: Even while playing through the second half of Thames Wharf (and being bored and autopilot as fuck) I realized something: "levels like these have happened so much that...they probably just CANT make pure unadulterated kino." It's just too hard or something, or too high an expectation (dark souls 1 managed to do it though, for MUCH longer and consistently, whether you think the second half is bad or not (way overblown narrative) the first half is SO consistent and strong that those memories stay strongest and end up defining you play through overall) So I TRIED to just tolerate, appreciate and find the good in the level...and the good I found was the puzzle. But it wasn't enough, it was literally ONE instance, one room. It was a nice appetizer, topping, dressing, dessert.

Just wish we'd get a Tomb Raider game that was just consistently complex, challenging (So TR1 doesn't count, its too simple for the most part) and engaging, in that unique Tomb Raider way. Maybe the rest of TR3 will just be that, and I'll end up being satisfied. It'll be the opposite of DS1, middling first half, pure kino second half. Who knows.

When I used to think to myself "if they brought Tomb Raider back to modern day, what would be the most important changes?" Now. I have an answer: Consistency. I don't know how, but the level structure (how it's ordered, what gameplay elements are prioritized etc.) needs to be reconsider (not in the sense to take from modern gaming, because imo, that's exactly what gives us Last Revelation imo) and reconstructed in a way so as to give a consistent dose of TR's unique gameplay loop. Maybe that would instead actually result in a loss of the uniqueness, but idk, it's just a thought.

Who knows haha, maybe Chronicles will end up being what I want due to being shorter, even if the levels are overall never reach the peaks of past games, maybe it'll hopefully be more like every level is a Barkhang Monastery, not amazing, but good.

[Anonymous No.10205556]

>>10205430
>whether you think the second half is bad or not (way overblown narrative)
it's odd you think that because anor londo, dukes archive, giant tomb, 1st part of new londo are really linear

[Anonymous No.10205585]

>>10205556
what was missed by "overblown"? I literally explicitly didn't praise the second half. Just said it wasn't anywhere bad enough to bring down the first half...and how are we mentioning "linear" without darkroot garden. That makes me question what you think "linear" means.

Anor Londo rightfully deserves the overrated label though. The fact that so many people pretend it's a good level definitely reflects the point I made before about people not actually liking complex levels where you can feel lost.

I thought I remember dukes archives being considered generally good though (save for seath) and for the other levels, one could argue what they lack in complexity, they posses in varied gameplay themes.

Also, I don't want to even get into it, but there's an argument to be made that not a single dark souls 1 level ISNT "linear" and absolutely NOT non linear. I already alluded to a point like this in one my past paragraphs about how these words aren't actually as fit for description as we pretend they are. But that's too high level a conversation for me to be willing to engage in right now.

[Anonymous No.10205698]

>>10204959
>>10205001
It's a bad area in a bad cash grab of a game that was rushed as shit by overworked and completely burnt out developers who had spent much of the previous three years crunching on one Tomb Raider game or another. Yeah it's pretty clear that something is amiss when you're playing on an emulator at high resolution with upscaled textures and washed out brightness, but try it on an actual PS1 over a composite connection with z-buffer texture warping everywhere on a dim CRT and then do the thread a favor and shove the Dual Shock controller up your own ass.

Tomb Raider 3 is a mess. The dev teams were worked so hard that they literally decided to kill Lara Croft in The Last Revelation because they thought that it would mean they would not have to work on any more yearly Tomb Raider installments.

[Anonymous No.10205723]

>>10205430
>Who knows haha, maybe Chronicles will end up being what I want due to being shorter, even if the levels are overall never reach the peaks of past games, maybe it'll hopefully be more like every level is a Barkhang Monastery, not amazing, but good.

Chronicles was a quick and dirty cashgrab slapped together to make a few bucks while a different team worked on Angel of Darkness for the PS2. It uses mostly ideas and code that had been cut from earlier Tomb Raider games.

The frame of the game is three of Lara's friends telling stories of her past exploits after her funeral, with each story being a chapter in the game. The game has four chapters overall

> Rome
Not bad. It feels like a classic Tomb Raider game. Larson and DuPont from the first game return as antagonists.

> Russia
More shit urban raider but with a part toward the end where Lara gets trapped in a sinking submarine. Cool idea, horrible execution.

> Ireland
Teenage Lara explores an island in Ireland, runs away from Irish folklore monsters, and tries to save a priest from an ancient ghost. You get no weapons whatsoever in this chapter. Again, cool idea, dogshit execution.

> Von Croy Building
Lara breaks into a high rise building and has to use stealth (which doesn't work at all in the TR engine) to steal an artifact. Complete dogshit.

Chronicles is the worst game in the classic series. The Rome chapter is fun, but the rest are complete turds.

[Anonymous No.10205790]

>>10205585
Darkroot Garden is ''wide linear'' and I don't like it because it's empy and reminds me of Elden Boring.
I wonder how do you like the DS2 DLC? It's the last time where they leaned into puzzle box level design.

[Anonymous No.10205802]

My options for playing Tomb Raider Legend are the PS2 version, the PC version, and the PSP version on my Vita, are the PS2/PSP versions solid or is it something I'm going to want to sit down at my PC to play?

[Anonymous No.10205806]

>>10205723
>Ireland
You don't hate it because you got lost, do you?
It's the only redeeming part of chronicles and mogs most of TR4.

[Anonymous No.10205816]

>>10205802
Just play the PC version at 8k 200+Hz.
And then play the demake demo

[Anonymous No.10205828]

>>10205698
You're just used to modern games where you don't have to pay attention.
I played it on on actual ps1 back in the day and didn't fall for it. I used a save for the medkit though without a shred of gamer rage taking over my body.

[Anonymous No.10205904]

>>10205698
what the fuck is this exaggeration lmao?

I'm the original anon that was complaining about the quicksand and even I don't have to go to such lengths to rationalize my arbitrary subjective opinion wtf? like does this dude realizes he's barely even actually talking about the game at this point? why do so many people "criticize" TR3 as if it raped their mother? none of what was said here even proves TR3 as a bad game. It's hardcore confirmation bias looking for "evidence" that has no actual direct relevance, to paint a picture that's just a reflection of their bias and poor ability.

Jesus, lmao. Thank God retards like this don't make, and can't stop the making of actually creative videogames.

[Anonymous No.10205907]

have you seen Lara's springy caucasian melons

[Anonymous No.10205912]

>>10205698
Also how retarded do you have to be to say this btw? Literally EVERY single Tomb Raider games was rushed and had overworked staff? The fuck? Also TR3 EXPLICITLY had a plan of action by the original developers to relieve themselves of some workload, not every game, and specifically TR3 had the same set of staff at all times. So the "facts" you're using aren't even OBJECTIVELY true and it really IS hardcore confirmation bias. Jesus, how mentally ill and mind broken do you have to be to twist and make up facts to cry about a videogame on an anonymous board?

[Anonymous No.10205932]

>>10205912
I read they had new people do TR3 while the old folks that weren't fired do TR4 simultaneously.
That would explain why TR4 is so looong, but it doesn't explain why it's so drab. Maybe burn out.

[Anonymous No.10206365]

>>10205912
The Tomb Raider games are an object lesson nowadays in how not to manage a dev team. Getting a classic series out of their repeated, severe managerial fuckup is nothing short of a miracle.

[Anonymous No.10206760]

>>10205904
You don't need to "prove" that TR3 is a bad game, you just have to play it and realize its a bad game.

>>10205828
Nigger TR1 is my favorite game in the series, and could very well be my favorite game of all time. It's not exactly the most difficult game on the planet but you still have to pay attention and explore everywhere to get most of the secrets.

[Anonymous No.10206768]

>>10187942
Stop it, AVGN.

[Anonymous No.10206790]

Does anyone know if the various game levels can be loaded into TRLE? I'd love to make a version of TR3 that works (for my personal definition thereof) but meticulously building replicas would take forever.

[Anonymous No.10206824]

>>10206760
And TR3 requires you to pay more attention and it is something you can't handle.
You're a bad gamer!

[Anonymous No.10206981]

>>10206365
>The Tomb Raider games are an object lesson nowadays in how not to manage a dev team. Getting a classic series out of their repeated, severe managerial fuckup is nothing short of a miracle.

Nobody disagreed with this. People (well me) disagreed with the confirmation bias implication that a game with troubled development (which hasn't even been outlined as THAT extremely troubled compared to chronicles and angel of Darkness, or even arguably TR4, not to mention other games. Everything is relative and without other developments to compare to, dubbing TR3's development "bad enough to make bad game" is ridiculous") is a bad game. You're just seeing what you want to see and reaching for stuff outside the game to chastise the actual gameplay with. It's cheap.

But I feel like I've made my point more than enough so I'm done.

[Anonymous No.10207107]

I'm just reading all these posts and imagining TR5 actually ending up being the best and most consistent Tomb Raider game. lmao. Just imagine. It would simultaneously destroy narratives about "cash grabs" and prove that AOD is just genuinely a shit game lmao. Honestly I was planning on skipping Chronicles, but I've surprisingly heard more people say they like AOD than chronicles. So TR5 might be the real middle child lel

[Anonymous No.10207481]

>>10207107
People just shit on chronicles because it has the hardest platforming and most confusing level layouts than any other TR games

[Anonymous No.10207641]

>>10206824
And, again, depending on what platform you are playing on "paying attention" might do fuckall.

The devs knew the game was busted, that's why they removed the save crystals requirement in the PC version. They were so overworked that they weren't able to remove the actual crystals in the levels though, so they just changed them to basically being small medpacks.

It's not a well designed game, and you're not smart or cool for thinking you're good at playing it.

>>10207107
>>10207481
Chronicles is worth playing just to check it out, and if you've gone through the first four games (and their expansions) and you still want more classic TR gameplay than you don't really have any other choice unless you want to start dicking around with community levels. The Rome section is unironically pretty good, the game just takes a major nosedive after that.

I wish we could get a modern indie clone, but no one wants to make one because the majority of modern gamers are retards who can't handle basic spatial orientation and therefor will bounce right off of any game that features precision platforming and tank controls.

[Anonymous No.10207694]

>>10207641
>The devs knew the game was busted, that's why they removed the save crystals requirement in the PC version.

Or because every single PC release of the games has had quicksave because quicksave was normalized on PC and the PC ports were never really try hard enough to have any intent or deliberation in designing them around the save crystals...Holy fucking confirmation bias btw. I genuinely don't think this guy is smart enough to realize how stupid his "arguments" are because he's genuinely STEEPED in bias and still crying over TR3 fucking his mom lmao.

I'm LITERALLY playing on PS1, it's not to say the game is without flaws but most of its problems are exacerbated by the save crystals, and we're present thought TR1 and 2. The large difference? TR3 levels are most consistently bigger and complex, so it requires better paying attention in a broad sense and is just harder. TR1 especially set a standard of really not being that hard once you got used to the controls. The level design never got better than Palace of Midas and St.Francis Folly.

TR1 simply demands less of you generally, it's hardest parts are in the middle. And the difficulty in the later levels is more about the bullshit enemy encounters than level design. But luckily if you're not cheap like me, enemies are much more straightforward to deal with than levels, and you can just use your biggest guns. I used my pistols basically the entire game till Atlantis.

Anyway, my point is that TR1 is the game people flock to to pretend they were truly challenged and got the "Tomb Raider experience" because it was the first. But I'd argue TR1 doesn't even meet its own standards half the time. As well as setting the base standard for "what you can get out of a TR game while being simplest and easiest" It never tries to be better than itself, and thats good enough for normies and idiots, because the average retard is never somebody that critically thinks and therefore never truly seeks for better.

Simple.

[Anonymous No.10207698]

>>10207481
>People just shit on chronicles because it has the hardest platforming and most confusing level layouts than any other TR games

Press (X) to doubt when TR3 exists lmao.

Got any proof for this? A video maybe? Your own arguments? Or maybe even one of these:
>>10202629 type of pics that show the complexity of a level.

I'm genuinely curious. Because I plan on taking a break from TR3 at Aldywch since I know it'll be big (and kino) and I start to get anxious about some games when I realize I'm close to the end of a good game and put it off for a bit.

[Anonymous No.10207726]

>>10207694
> they just left a bunch of floating transparent brushes scattered all around the levels in the PC version of TR3 as an intentional design choice
Ok, sure thing. It's definitely not a rushed shitty game. You've convinced me.

TR2 didn't have save crystals, by the way.

[Anonymous No.10207868]

>>10207726
>TR2 didn't have save crystals, by the way.

Yeah, and the very first game, the original design, the game that started it all, the game with the most pure and unadulterated developer intent...had save crystals. What is even the point?

If we want to measure. More failed Tomb Raider games have had NO save crystals than save crystals. Angel of Darkness, Chronicles (TR2, but that would be too spicy)

[Anonymous No.10207880]

>>10207868
>What is even the point?

The point is you're going on and on about how "retarded" other people are regarding Tomb Raider but you don't even know what you are talking about.

TR2 moving to a save anywhere system on the PS1 meant that the level designers had more freedom to put more difficult sections with more instant death traps because you didn't have to worry about balancing difficulty against how long it may have been since the player last used a save crystal. It was a pretty huge fundamental change in the way levels were designed, starting as early as the first level, the Great Wall, with the gauntlet you get dropped into with the moving spike walls.

If you're going to try and act like you are some kind of authority on the franchise you should at least play all of the games in the franchise. Especially TR2, considering how big of a shift it was from the first game, and how divisive it is among people who discuss it here on the website >>>/vr/

[Anonymous No.10207906]

>>10207880
>The point is you're going on and on about how "retarded" other people are regarding Tomb Raider but you don't even know what you are talking about.

Lol. I've proven that for you more than you have for me (you haven't)

>TR2 moving to a save anywhere system on the PS1 meant that the level designers had more freedom to put more difficult sections with more instant death traps

Retarded simpleton logic. First of all TR2 isn't hard. Second of all "freedom" is arbitrary when it comes to creative design. What your purporting isn't a real thing. How do I explain this to an idiot...it's like people that say stuff like "All billionaires dropped out if school, so school is useless" Depending on how stupid you wanna be, it might not get through your head. But the point is that you're highlighting a "reasoning" that isn't necessarily inherent, by selectively choosing the "evidence" to support it.

Basically Two things. TR3 exists and so that already disproves what you've said. But 80s Platformers with lives that make you start all the way from the beginning also exist, they have even more brutal save points. Dark Souls also exists, it's an infinitely harder game than both Tomb Raider 2, 3, with far more surprise traps, falls, enemies, status effects etc.

What you've identified isn't an inherent connection, it's a pussy designers willingness and faith in the gamers that will play the games they make. You can be as free and challenging as you want with any save system you want. That's a designer decision for the dev. If you don't like it. Don't play and go cry about it.

Anyway.
>the Great Wall, with the gauntlet you get dropped into with the moving spike walls.

lol. the great wall was not that hard. you guys really are pussies lmao. the biggest change to TR2 is the enemies and combat encounters, and levels being more linear. that's it. great wall was only "hard" if like me, you didn't realize you could save anywhere and did it from the beginning every time.

[Anonymous No.10207943]

>>10207906
Skimming your post because you're stupid - I never said TR2 was "hard", you are trying to pretend that that is what I said because you got btfo and exposed for never actually playing TR2, and now you're trying to steer the conversation in a different direction to deflect from that.

You have this idea that you're so good at Tomb Raider games and that makes you a ~superior gamer~ but you have proven that you haven't even played the second game in the series, and considering you were lying about that its not not even certain that you played 1, TLR, or Chronicles.

You are a loser whose only shred of personal pride is some idea that you've built up in your head that you are "good" at playing Tomb Raider 3, which you smugly think makes you somehow superior to the people who (accurately) say that the game is shit while bragging about this "achievement" on 4chan. Sad.

[Anonymous No.10208001]

>>10207698
IN TR3, there's almost zero execution factor, and expectations are established poorly

Anyway, I've already said this and I'll say it again. Tomb Raider 3 isn't hard. It's just tedious and boring

Chronicles actually rewards you for thorough exploration
You'll find plenty of examples of people getting filtered by the last level of Chronicles because it punishes you for savescumming just like they got filtered by Temple of Xian

[Anonymous No.10208125]

>>10208001
>>10186774
Why have you been pretending to be the other anon who currently plays through TR3?

[Anonymous No.10208175]

>>10186416
>Doesn't look that obvious on a real console
The sun is shining on it, while the surrounding is in shadow. If that doesn't grab attention then I don't know what does.

[Anonymous No.10208871]

>>10208001
>IN TR3, there's almost zero execution factor
empty words
If you mean skill based gameplay, TR3 has the most in the Core games, though I'm not saying the combat is great or anything. Just that you can actually avoid damage for the most part if you git gud. And even there is unavoidable damage like in the kayak section, the game gave you an obvious medkit in the main path.
>expectations are established poorly
TR3 establishes that you have to use your eyes. While the save system is a bit harsh, you can't just quicksave every second and ignore all the trap tells like in the other games. If your gut goes ''hmm in reallife you shouldn't put your body on a hot/spiky thing'' then you do a save (provided the last one was ages ago) and you're gud. One anon had saved up like 13 crystals and thats really over the top. I mean I get it, I too saved up 99 elixirs in FF7, but if your resource saving leads to you having a miserable time, it's time to loosen up.
>Tomb Raider 3 isn't hard. It's just tedious and boring
Sounds like a broken ego problem, not exctly rare.
>Chronicles actually rewards you for thorough exploration
So you're troll, got it. I like TR5, but it's not nearly as complex and rewarding as TR3. Fact.

[Anonymous No.10209089]

This place is healing, I don't have to make retarded arguments against retards constantly lmao.

I legit stopped replying to that anon because he somehow convinced himself that I didn't play TR2, but if he actually knew anything about me and didn't make cope assumptions, he'd realize how retarded that is, since I've been basically playing all the Tomb Raider games nonstop in a row since summer. Gunna play TR5 now though, since I'm anxious about finishing TR3 and having nothing good left. TR4 is boring and garbage, but the Cairo levels sound simultaneously boring, but complex at the very least. I honestly almost want to go back to TR4 just to experience them. But I'm reminded about how many trash shallow levels TR4 has that I almost don't waste my time since based on what everybody has said about the game. Cairo is the last interesting bit the game has to offer. Maybe if I hate TR5 enough, I'll go and finish TR4 before ending on TR3.

[Anonymous No.10209119]

>if I hate TR5 enough
reminder that TR5 only gets good at the teenlara section

[Anonymous No.10210612]

Man, chronicles is just really boring too, almost exactly like TR4, despite having no loading screen and "interconnected" levels lol. Is it maybe just something about the specific TR4 engine that lends its levels to feeling so boring?

I'm trying to think back to the times I found TR1, 2 and 3 boring. For TR1, it started to feel boring, but in an exhausting way by Egypt, For TR2, it started to feel boring during Bartoli's Hideout, but it REALLY set in, once I got to offshore rig. For TR3...ALL of India was boring but...was it boring in the same way? The environment was very colorful, lush, and alive, I remember feeling really impressed by the sound design, but I think disappointment is what I felt above all in India because it wasn't as hard or NOT (not non) linear as I expected. I'd say that despite that all. India was pretty okay at introducing and using all the new mechanics interestingly, and at the very least it felt SOMEWHAT fresh

For TR4...it hasn't gotten NOT boring yet. It just went from boring, to tedious during the catacombs due to the skeleton enemies and the double rope swing thing. As well as a VERY stark lack of platforming puzzles, and hard to navigate level design. Currently TR5 isn't actually offensively bad (yet). I just find myself more interested in going back to TR3 or TR4 because I know I probably must be close to Cairo.

I wonder too, if the reason I feel this way is because I've played 4 (or 3 in TR4's case) of the type of games in a row? But TR4 does a lot to feel different in some pretty drastic ways and it's still not enough I guess huh? I wonder what's missing, what I'm looking for further from these games. I'm starting to think these games have a pacing flaw and TR1 was the best and most consistently paced (for the first half atleast) due to the novelty of being the first and having to grapple fundamentally with the controls makes just moving and jumping even with no complex platforming puzzles, fun.

[Anonymous No.10210668]

>>10209089
So you're admitting that you didn't play TR2 or TR4 or TR5, yet still post on 4chan like you have. You have no idea what you are talking about, your favorite game is dogshit, and you need to stop posting immediately.

[Anonymous No.10210681]

>>10210612
> based ahdh-anon who thinks any game without constant action/loud noises/flashing lights is "boring"

Maybe you should stop playing Tomb Raider and start playing something a little more your speed. I would suggest Spongebob Squarepants: The Battle for Bikini Bottom.

[Anonymous No.10210698]

>>10210681
lol.
>> based ahdh-anon who thinks any game without constant action/loud noises/flashing lights is "boring"

>makes up retarded strawman about me
>despite me literally giving specific pointed criticisms about the games constantly in every TR thread
>so much so that a random anon has to make a point to me that "isn't a level that's complex exhausting? if you understand they can be exhausting aren't games supposed to be fun?" because I expressed enjoying hard to navigate complex level.
>just end up being called adhd zoomer based on some random retards baseless assumption.

is there even any point to trying to say anything indepth on here? lol

[Anonymous No.10210723]

>>10210612
The problem with TR4 is Cairo and long pyramid levels. Cairo was completely unnecessary after the long fucking motorcycle levels, they should've just switched to Citadel. Catacombs levels and the backtracking around them was kino.

[Anonymous No.10210742]

>>10210723
>Catacombs levels and the backtracking around them was kino.

Lol what, catacombs was some of the most boring levels every with the worst gimmick enemies and mechanics like those ghost things that follow you till you get to a specific statue, all the ropes, the unkillable skele enemies without shotgunning them into pits or blasting them with explosives...not to mention the level has virtually zero interesting platforming segments, puzzles, and nothing is hard to figure out where to go because the level is extremely contained. It almost feels like an Ocarina of Time level where you just backtrack to every obvious unexplored doorway till you get the arbitrary set of items to progress. Instead of peak TR level design where it's about understanding your envirom3nt and how to use your moveset in a directionless, complex, and interconnected level. It's honestly TOO "hublike" in some senses, and once you get past the double rope part, the "hub" itself isn't that interesting to traverse and explore...

But if you liked THIS level, and based on what I've heard about cairo being confusing and complex to navigate...it's obvious that you moreso appreciate the more typical "action adventure" and straightforward aspects of "Tomb Raider" with a stronger focus on enemy encounters and running around simple linear offshoot paths than me...maybe I actually WILL end up liking Cairo...I was worried with how boring TR4 was generally for me, it'd feel like a slog overall...

[Anonymous No.10210896]

>>10210698
The only thing "in depth" in your life is your dilator.

[Anonymous No.10210920]

>>10210896
I'm not trans, and even if I was, I'd never get sex reassignment surgery

[Anonymous No.10210982]

>>10210681
NTA but to be fair, if you don't care about the secrets, the games can get really linear. And if you get your enjoyment out of getting lost or stuck, it won't be a good time.

[Anonymous No.10211345]

How do you activate DOZY mode on Openlara on the PSVita?

There are a couple areas I've found so far in The Lost Valley where you can't get to a secret due to the climbing/grabbing not working correctly (the biggest example being the one at the top of the waterfall in the valley itself, Lara can jump to the crack but not shimmy over to the waterfall and climb up into it).

The biggest pain in the ass I have noticed (outside of crashes) is that the draw distance has been pushed way the fuck back so there is no distance fogging (good), but it means you can see enemies from across the level and Lara won't lock on to them until they're super close to her. This makes sense because the game originally set the lockon distance based on what Lara could actually see (and having it be very long would make the game super easy), but it still irks me. I wish there was a way to change it, I've already beaten the original version a bajillion times and just want to do a fun playthrough to check out the new graphics.

[Anonymous No.10211610]

TR3 is a shit game lmao, pretenders love it. None of you were there when the game was launched, stop pretending at least.

[Anonymous No.10211623]

>>10211610
filtered

[Anonymous No.10211647]

>see that le heckin different texture beneath the heavy shadow that you're supposed to see on your 20" CRT TV?
>your fault not seeing it, now die and load from whatever place you used your rare save crystal for

>pulled that lever? good luck finding what it actually did after backtracking the whole level

[Anonymous No.10211696]

This opening Paris area in Angel of Darkness is kind of making me want to play Omikron The Nomad Soul again. I don't mind (so far) this strange take on the series with it's running about talking to people about Lara's mystery with what Von Croy was working on before he got iced. I have complaints already sure but so far they're minor gripes here and there.

[Anonymous No.10211726]

>This planetarium thing in TR4
This game is on thin ice

[Anonymous No.10211960]

God. the biggest retards in the world really can't play TR3 at all huh? They don't even make real objective criticisms half the time, and constantly co-opt my quicksand argument to pair it up with some retarded argument like "exploring is backtracking!" can't understand why these genuine retards don't just leave and go play something braindead linear like God of War ragnarok or super Mario bros 1 instead of constantly crying pretending their two sentence "criticism" that essentially just amount to "I was too stupid, lazy, and bad for this game, so it's the game's fault" mean anything.

I'm not even joking when I say that this thread has unironically shown me that the only criticism about TR3 that matters is mine. Atleast I justify myself indepth without appealing to myself self referentially.

[Anonymous No.10212065]

>>10211726
The Lost Library planet puzzle?

[Anonymous No.10212075]

>>10212065
Yeah. I don't know why the pushing animation still takes longer than one second at this point in the series.

[Anonymous No.10212090]

>>10212075
It wasn't that bad for me, I've gotten used to it. I generally like how involved Lara's animations are. Reflects the level of control and precision you have over her, and the grounded nature of her general platforming and movement.

My personal problem is when her movement isn't actually used interestingly or thoughtfully, and puzzles like the planet puzzle (and the next one, despite me actually liking it) reflect this the most.

I literally solved the planet puzzle without a thought of what I was doing. It wasn't that I had no plan. It's that I had zero reason to think my "solution" was the right one the game wanted from me. I solved it first time without the apparent hint you can find in the level?

The problem with puzzles in this game is that they typically end up using some gimmicky item in your inventory, or have you literally just running around on foot doing the LIGHTEST of "platforming" or slow ass movements like the planet puzzle. I like when the game let's me move around and manipulate blocks so that I can reach places with Lara's moveset that I wouldn't have been able to without pushing the blocks. That's when I can tolerate the animations, but when it's just some random generic action adventure puzzle that feels like it's wasting my time since it's more about the special abstract "historical" based puzzle, rather than Lara and her unique moveset. It feels disappointing and like a waste, both of my time, and of the game's own gameplay.

I very much doubt the puzzles will actually get any better in the sense I'm talking about, it'll always feel weirdly slow, tedious, and unnecessary to me. But I just hope atleast SOMETHING else gets better, since I'll be returning to the game today POST Lost Library.

[Anonymous No.10212095]

>>10212075
The poor early decision to have enormous stone blocks as the push/drag object hampered their ability to speed up the animations and preserve realism. They could have had a lighter object of some kind move faster, but then they'd have had to make more animations.

[Anonymous No.10212191]

>>10212095
>They could have had a lighter object of some kind move faster, but then they'd have had to make more animations.

Also partly due to the grid based level design. I don't see how a lighter object work without it being something bouncy, or fantastical. Which actually kinda makes me interested in a Tomb raider game with a more fantasy/magical setting, but it would have to be a sort of magical realism to me.

Sci fi could also work but people are REAAAALLY retarded about these games and are very narrow minded about what a "tomb" is, despite no actual tombs existing at all in the capacity that is presented in the games

[Anonymous No.10212483]

>>10212191
I mean, if you need something approx 2 meters square and hardy enough to stand on I'd go with wooden crates, wheeled trash bins, plastic water containers (empty), metal cages or framing, wheeled carts, etc.

[Anonymous No.10212489]

>>10187942
Thats the Ganges.

[Anonymous No.10213398]

>boot up TR4
>run around
>immediately feel bored because there's no platforming and you know there will be some weird long try hard puzzle the developers obviously feel very proud about
>realize ill have to sit through boring ass gameplay probably pushing something
>go watch twitch streams instead

I'll finish this game...one day

[Anonymous No.10213693]

>>10213398
just be happy you don't have to do that shit while vampires constantly spawn

[Anonymous No.10213708]

>>10213693
>while vampires constantly spawn

and what game is that?

[Anonymous No.10213721]

>>10213708
Game? Anon just lives in Transylvania.

[Anonymous No.10213726]

>>10213708
Soul Reaver has that.

[Anonymous No.10213737]

>>10213693
>>10213726
oh yeah, I definitely remember soul reaver being a shit game. It was honestly the first 3D game from that era I played, and the game that convinced me all 3D games from that era were fundamentally trash.

Maybe somewhere at the back of my mind TR4 reminds me of it...

[Anonymous No.10213802]

chicks love Tomb Raider

[Anonymous No.10213809]

>>10213737
>all 3D games from that era were fundamentally trash
oh you think 3D games have gotten better? lol.

[Anonymous No.10213820]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkGyEwaE2uM
I enjoyed this throwback.

[Anonymous No.10215174]

I've got some shit to say about "puzzles" in these games, but also I've been burnt out by 4chan actually being a shit place for discussion where nothing matters, so all I'll say is: "puzzles" that involve just running around collecting items and using them at X place, barely count as puzzles no matter how "quirky" or "unique" they are. The only way to make that sort of gameplay meaningful, is by making the way to the items themselves hard to find, or challenging. And there's a range of this that would be considered "tolerable" but the fact that a non zero amount of Tomb Raider fans consider some of the "puzzles" in this game to be clever or good, despite falling under the description I laid out, says something.

And if you want to know EXACTLY what puzzle spurred on this thought. It's the golden beetle puzzle in Temple of Isis/Cleopatra's Palace. There are MANY more like this in the series but this "flaw" is typically offset by challenging navigation, platforming, traps, or all of the above together. Anybody who's NOT retarded should be able to put 2 and 2 together and figure why I'm characterizing this "puzzle" as illegitimate...I hope

[Anonymous No.10215181]

>>10196160
It's designed to leave you with the bare minimum of health. If you abuse health packs in TR3, this can actually softlock your progress.

[Anonymous No.10215186]

>>10202887
>celebrating that they only got the third best game

What did anon mean by this?

[Anonymous No.10215247]

>have to magically figure out that Lara can drag this specific corpse out of the trapdoor
>but only if you press X on the head
>the lever below doesn't even show you that it operates this trapdoor
>and you think it could be anything else because a trend in this game is that it doesn't show you what many levers operate (never had a problem with this till now)
>all this shit because they didn't figure out a mechanic to get inside low holes in the wall
>also moments later an explosive barrel that somehow doesn't blow up with an explosive arrow, only with a revolver shot
Some baffling decisions in this game kek. It's giving me some TR3 tier moments of frustration.

[Anonymous No.10215258]

>>10215247
Forgot about this shit.
I really got filtered by the arbitrary sniping in TR4.

[Anonymous No.10215303]

>>10215174
There are puzzles you have yet to see, where the key item is easy to find but the lock is hidden.
You probably already got spoiled on the notorious one.

[Anonymous No.10215308]

>>10215247
>Some baffling decisions in this game kek. It's giving me some TR3 tier moments of frustration.

Every since actually finding out that the ticket machine in london isn't arbitrary, I've come to the conclusion that most people that play these games are genuinely and unironically retarded, with absolutely zero self awareness of that fact too.

[Anonymous No.10215319]

>>10215303
>There are puzzles you have yet to see, where the key item is easy to find but the lock is hidden.

We'll see. That sounds more interesting, but my general problem with the game being about mostly just running around with no interesting platforming puzzles, traps, or navigation still stands for now. It's hard to explain exactly what I mean, but every "challenge" feels bite sized or half assed, I don't want to insult the devs, but I don't know what better word but "half assed" maybe shallow? It reminds me very much of Super Mario 64, or other collectathons, where it's this very simple, straightforward and shallow "challenge" to get the item, except Tomb Raider (4) tries to pretend it's more than just a game by making "realistically" put together rooms and structures, it's not that they're complex, they just look like actual places, not abstract jumbles of platforms like Banjo and M64.

Everything I've been hearing from everyone seems to suggest that the latter of the game gets more complex I guess? (maybe even too complex?)

Let's just hope it doesn't get retardedly obtuse.

[Anonymous No.10215321]

>>10215174
>The only way to make that sort of gameplay meaningful, is by making the way to the items themselves hard to find, or challenging.
Why?
If a puzzle is intellectually challenging in other ways, why would the route matter? A puzzle like the Tinnos switch puzzle is a brain workout even if it happens in a safe room with flat ground.

[Anonymous No.10215439]

Level design feels too complex for being developed with consoles in mind so i always see it as a pc series at heart.

[Anonymous No.10215468]

>>10215439
>Level design feels too complex for being developed with consoles

This logic makes no sense, dark souls was released on consoles first, and it mogs 90% of videogames in level design. Not to mention Tomb Raider was released on Saturn first. So it was always a console game first and foremost. Also I can't even think of that many "PC" games with "complex" level design. People are gunna mention Thief and System shock, but Thiefs level design is arguably too "big" to the point of redundancy and honestly a poor use of space with how some rooms can literally just be filled with nothing, or a single trinket but people aren't ready for that convo. And System Shock arguably only maintains that complexity for 1 game.

Even if I were to give it to those games, it's not like much other PC games were concerned that much with "Level Design" modern day or past. I WILL admit that PC games definitely tried to be bigger and more bloated before consoles, but thats not the same as "complex" necessarily.

[Anonymous No.10215470]

Finally made it to Cairo.

Now, to let my Steam Deck charge. I hope it doesn't disappoint...I'll make sure to play some Street Fighter 6 beforehand to remind myself that games can be immediate fun, and not get burnt out

[Anonymous No.10215490]

>>10215321
>Why?
>If a puzzle is intellectually challenging in other ways, why would the route matter? A puzzle like the Tinnos switch puzzle is a brain workout even if it happens in a safe room with flat ground.

Can't speak on Tinnos since I haven't finished TR3 yet, and it's not like I haven't heard bad things about it so not necessarily the best example methinks.

There's a better example, atleast for me:

In the Lost Library, in Tomb Raider 4, there's a puzzle right after the Planet Puzzle. For me, this was the only puzzle in the game that I found stimulating and actually required me to just stop and think. It took me a decent while to solve this puzzle, and I enjoyed it.

But while running from each serpent switch, seeing them light on fire after hitting the switch, a thought was developing at the back of my head. "This doesn't really feel like Tomb Raider"

Because of how tedious it was to position myself in front of the switches, I started to realize how much of a waste Lara's movement was. The game wasn't justifying her super precise and varied movement. It was actually getting in the way, and then it struck me then, that this was my entire problem with TR4 up till now. The game barely felt like Tomb Raider, there were barely any platforming puzzles where you needed to understand Lara's moveset and how to traverse complex structures. The puzzles had become generic action adventure shit.

If I want to experience truly intellectually challenging puzzles. I can play Baba is You, or Stephen's Sausage Roll. I play Tonb Raider for the unique way it's gameplay and level design intertwine. To explore complex levels like I'm Lara, because of how much control the game gives me. When I encounter a puzzle like this I think "I'd rather just play a puzzle game explicitly designed to be more challenging, and creative, since it's mechanics are specifically and tightly designed for puzzle solving" and I start to feel like the game is wasting my time by not being itself.

[Anonymous No.10216176]

>>10215490
I think this might boil down to your personal taste.

[Anonymous No.10216181]

>>10183561
>WHAT THE FUCK??? THERE WAS A WHOLE ALTERNATE ROUTE
>I knew it was there
So why are you pretending to be surprised by it?

[Anonymous No.10216208]

>>10216176
>I think this might boil down to your personal taste.

Yes no shit. But it's also personal taste to want tomb raider to become a racing game, or a survival action game. "Personal Taste" is a retarded dismissive response that doesn't at all engage with anything g being proposed. Just because it's "personal" taste doesn't mean it doesn't have a point. People like and have a right to protect the unique elements of a series that gives it that name and relevance.

Everything I said can be understood clearly, engaged with and challenged. All you'd have to do is propose a reason that generic puzzles should exist in a series that was unique predicated on platforming puzzles and exploration, as well as why it's actually a good or fine thing when the game wastes its mechanics that can just end up being tedious when they're not being utilized well. God this "subjective" shit of "well that's just your opinion man!" has poisoned conversation so much, it's just such a cheap way to justify people inability to actually think. Yes it's fucking obvious that everything pertaining videogames or any piece of media, or art is subjective, that doesn't mean things can be talked about critically or understood in depth.

Like I'd rather you just not ask for my opinion at all if this is the response I'm gunna get, this thread is already largely shit and pointless filled with one sentence whiners and nobody that can actually articulate why they think anything they do. Discussion on this site is so meaningless *sigh* urghh I'm done

[Anonymous No.10216210]

>>10216181
>So why are you pretending to be surprised by it?

Did I not explain in OP? I saw there was an alternate DIRECTION you could go to, but I didn't realize it was a whole entire alternate route since once I got there, I could only pick up some ammo and medpacks, and it was gated and I couldn't figure out how to get through it. So I figured either, it's just one of those secret diversions that rewards you with items, or the level would loop me back that way somehow

[Anonymous No.10216381]

>>10215490
>If I want to experience truly intellectually challenging puzzles. I can play Baba is You, or Stephen's Sausage Roll.
yeah but I want some kula world in my lara
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag6z6313aG4

[Anonymous No.10216947]

>>10215470
That's the steamdeck screen? The lightbleed is TERRIBLE. They should have put in an ATW filter.

[Anonymous No.10217091]

>>10216208
I don't want your opinion. I want you to reflect on how boring and pointless it is for us to hear about your inner monologue's favourite parts of a meal we've all eaten.
Other types of puzzle, other types of gameplay, exist in TR because jumping and grabbing get boring extremely fast if that's all you do. Just like the feeling of exploration giving way to frustration and confusion if it goes on too long.

[Anonymous No.10217548]

>>10217091
>I don't want your opinion.

You're too stupid even to realize how stupid what you just said is lol. Discussion really is pointless here when the average person possesses the self awareness of a dolphin (I even made sure to mention one of the smartest animals just to reinforce how retarded you are) I won't point out the obvious, because it's pointless. But If there's a shred of intelligence in there, I urge you to read the post you're replying to. And this text I greentexted, and try to match it logically to anything I had said in there.

Even a child can do connect the dots. I wish you luck

[Anonymous No.10217567]

>>10217548
I enjoy reading your opinions <3

[Anonymous No.10217659]

>>10217548
You are only offering opinions, with weak supporting statements. You have added no wisdom, discovered no hidden truths, and failed even in being diverting or witty.
I don't want your opinions, nor your masturbatory rhetoric justifying them. I want you to change for the better, and to hurry up and play more TR3 so that you encounter difficulty and suffer thereby.

[Anonymous No.10217864]

>>10217659
I want masturbatory rhetoric praising TR3 and condemning TR4.

[Anonymous No.10218721]

>>10187568
>15 minutes
yep

[Anonymous No.10218727]

>>10189724
filter trannies just will never fucking learn

[Anonymous No.10218734]

>>10195592
yeah sometimes you have to fail to succeed retard. You don't have to do it on the first fucking try jesus christ

[Anonymous No.10218853]

>>10218727
antialiasing bad!

[Anonymous No.10218947]

I don't know what fucking retard thought it was acceptable for the back pedal on the bike in Cairo to work the way it does, but they need to be murdered and hanged front of the streets for everyone to see

[Anonymous No.10219029]

>>10218947
It was me who designed it. Come and try doing that you little bastard.

[Anonymous No.10219627]

>>10218947
don't see anything wrong with it, do you hate immersion?

[Anonymous No.10219956]

>>10218947
There's a backpedal? I thought you were meant to move awkwardly in the corners to turn the bike around

[Anonymous No.10220014]

have you seen Lara's springy caucasian melons

[Anonymous No.10220601]

>>10220014
Lara obviously isn't caucasian

[Anonymous No.10220771]

>>10220601
She's British but her character was originally South American (her original name was Laura Cruz, it was changed to "Lara" after she became Laura Croft because it sounded more regal).

This is why her design in the original game had a little hint of latin flavor (tan skin, brown lips, dark eyebrows).

[Anonymous No.10220820]

>>10220771
Yes, this is what I meant. Not even to mention that her giant lips are LITERALLY non existent on white Caucasian women. I always thought of her as either Columbian or some sort of Hispanic, or Italian, or I don't fucking know, maybe even one of those countries that are technically Asian but nobody actually considers Asian because people look at Race incredibly narrowly

[Anonymous No.10221440]

What did TR4 mean by this?

[Anonymous No.10221450]

>>10221440
If there is an obvious tile where you have to move something, what's the issue?

[Anonymous No.10221473]

>>10221440
really wish you guys wouldn't spoil these puzzles for me so I could objectively judge that you're actually all genuine retards, now, I just won't truly be able to tell

[Anonymous No.10221521]

>>10221473
It's not a long game. Go away, play it, come back.

[Anonymous No.10221615]

>>10221440
It means fuck you and buy our guide

>>10221473
Final level of TR4, move the block to a random tile to open the door.
Use the coin on a random ticket machine in Aldwich to get the ticket

[Anonymous No.10221659]

>>10221615
The tile does have scratch marks, but the others don't, so it's kind of nonobvious.
>>10195140 Was better designed.

[Anonymous No.10221792]

>>10221659
Can you elaborate? If the tile has scratch marks but not the others it should be OBVIOUS instead (but the scratch marks are hardly noticeable so I still think It's bullshit)

And I was the anon who mentionned that >>10194739 was visible with a torch but I have no idea what >>10195140 is highlighting. A different texture on the side of the wall? What am I supposed to see here?

[Anonymous No.10221804]

>>10221615
it's not a random tile, it's marked on the floor with a symbol, problem for me was that the moving block looked like nothing you've seen before so I dismissed it as some decoration. also it had been a long while since you even had to use a moving block for anything by the end.

anyway finished TR4, past the initial stellar impression with some QoL improvements and the gorgeous texture work, it got progressively more tedious and many little "fuck you" single-use mechanics that soured it for me, Cairo was very guilty of this, as well as many dumb decisions. oh you had to drag this corpse, but only if you click exactly on its head? fuck you. oh you had to do all this section with the water sprinklers to get a key to access an area that you could actually just get past with a simple running jump? fuck you. and actually this electrical panel with the red light that you shoot, what does it do? we don't show you. fuck you. despite every previous game showing you what most levers and contraptions do, we don't do that in this game because fuck you. oh here's an empty room market as a secret, fuck you.

very underwhelming music as well, you can't just be in the last level of the game and still hear the same exact ambience you've been hearing since the very first level, what happened to setting the mood? in Temple of Xian, you arrived and the music would immediately tell you that you were not meant to be here and that you were going to be fucked.

anyway short break until TR5. little burned out by now.

[Anonymous No.10221843]

>>10221792
The movable block is on a raised platform and doesn't blend with the ground while the others do.

[Anonymous No.10221851]

Imagine getting filtered by TR4 kek

[Anonymous No.10221884]

i'm finally making my way through the first game after having been filtered by it as a youth. It's fucking incredible; yeah, it can be frustrating to restart a level after a bad platforming section, god help you if it happens back to back, but i don't even care. It's such a marvel of its time in so many ways. The musical ques, the thoughtful platforming...
and when you watch the documentaries and read about how the game was made, it all sounds so serendipitous; the had to find all these talented people to build systems from scratch and collaborate to make this cohesive and fun game. it's really just one of the finest playstation games if you have any interest in exploration as a theme in your games.

[Anonymous No.10221904]

>>10221792
yeah but if you just walk up to it and hit X she'll interact with it. If I was stuck that's what I'd probably start doing, trying to see if laura can inteact with any blocks in a way i've overlooked
i've never played 4 so I don't want to defend its design but clearly there's meant to be an obvious fissure on this block where laura could grab, but texture scaling being what it is, it's a little harder to see than the devs probably would've liked

[Anonymous No.10221918]

>>10199424
footi is incredible but I just wish he was better at commentary; he just mumbles to chat the whole time. I'm not complaining because he's obviously talented and has played the games into the dust but it's just not that fun to watch without some decent commentary

[Anonymous No.10221970]

>>10221851
>filtered
i finished the game.
>>10221918
he's probably commentated on the games a million times already. the fact that he is still getting better times on TR2 is really something else.

[Anonymous No.10223119]

Before this thread dies (there is a 14 day bump limit here) I'd just like to say I've enjoyed reading most of it. I had 3 as a kid and struggled with it. I picked the games again a few years ago and marathoned my way through before getting burned out around halfway through TLR. Chronicles is the only classic game I never made any progress in so I picked it up a few days ago and I've made my way past Ireland today.

[Anonymous No.10223913]

bye bye thread, I hated all of you, but it was almost nice, chilling in this thread while playing the games

[Anonymous No.10223979]

Guys, any specific TR documentary/making of/interview videos you'd recommend?

[Anonymous No.10224092]

>>10223979
Steve of Warr