/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.10144726]

I’ve come to the conclusion that Majora’s Mask is the greatest single piece of art gaming has ever produced.

[Anonymous No.10144730]

>>10144726
I don't know if I'd go that far, but definitely the best N64 game

[Anonymous No.10144741]

Having actually beaten the game, I've come to the conclusion that it's a piece of shit full of glaring flaws and awful padding to hide the fact that it's a 4-dungeon expansion sold at full price.

[Anonymous No.10144748]

>>10144741
filtered af but once again I’m saying Art piece not mechanical masterpiece. OOT definitely has better dungeon design but I think the mask mechanics alone more than make up for that

[Anonymous No.10144756]

>>10144726
I had more fun just fucking around with the masks in MM than I did with the entirety of most other games

[Anonymous No.10144763]

>>10144726
I love every about it except the timer. I know the game is built around it, but I can't stand them in video games, it's also why I will never finish Pikman.

[Anonymous No.10144764]

>>10144726
That would be MGS2. Only ~100-130iq fags hate it. Based retards such as myself and those few geniuses out there agree it is the greatest.

[Anonymous No.10144770]

>>10144764
I don't hate it, what I hate are the people who pretend it was some kind of prophetic masterpiece, when half of the shit it supposedly predicted was lifted from Deus Ex and sci fi novels

[Anonymous No.10144789]

Donkey kong 2>

[Anonymous No.10144807]

>>10144764
MGS2 is likely my second favorite it’s between that or re4.

[Anonymous No.10144829]

>>10144763
Come on bro, Pikman is not that hard. You just gotta plan to have a handful of days where you get two parts for safety, which will give you some leeway to replenish as you like on the first stage (In which, there's another part in the stage, so you get a free day)

[Anonymous No.10144846]

>>10144770
For sure. But as a piece of art it's unparalleled, and art always pays homage either by emulating or providing an alternative perspective to its predecessors (e.g. no pre-raphaelite's without baroque, no baroque without the mannerists no mannerists without Raphael, without Michaelangelo, without Donatello, you get the picture, such there is no MGS2 without Deus Ex, Suikoden, X-Files, etc etc). Once you get the idea out of your head that there is no original ideas then you'll start to get over the fact life imitates art imitates life and begin to enjoy art for how it stands on its own merit beyond influence.

[Anonymous No.10144916]

>>10144726
Play more games

[Anonymous No.10144926]

>>10144764
I agree with this. As far as /vr/ games as art go, MGS2, Silent Hill 2, Vagrant Story, and Donkey Kong Country all make strong cases for themselves.

[Anonymous No.10144959]

>>10144741
The game should have been a 7 day cycle in reference to Zelda lore and the real life religions the game story draws inspiration from. And it should have been 8 dungeons to keep with Zelda tradition. Also 7/8 is a mysterious ratio, which would heavily amplify the already surreal and mysterious tone of the game.
Aside from that, the game is perfect. As it is, it's a perfect mini-game with full fledged world story, lore and roots that most big games don't even achieve. It's one of those very rare games where the culture that is presented in the game's world is created from scratch and doesn't rely on real world assumptions, eg. about relationships, politics, science, etc., even though the game obviously comes from real world backdrop of pre Flood rituals and ideals. Termina is the slumber of Atlantis.

[Anonymous No.10144991]

>>10144756
The mask quest in MM is as fundamental as the rest of the game, if not more. The game has two main quests: the supernatural transformative masks quest (those found in dungeons that lead to Majora) and the natural masks quest (those that lead to the young couple whose love bond makes physical transformation meaningless). This is a reflection on the nature of games, heros and people (those in our imagination and those in real life, inclusing ourselves, the gamer pseudo-protagonist).
There isn't any other videogamr with this depth od thought.

[Anonymous No.10145030]

>>10144829
I never said it was hard. I bought it when it was new, saw the timer, noped out and traded it for Melee. I made the right decision.
>but melee has timed modes!
shh..

[Anonymous No.10145043]

>>10144926
I can understand the others, but why DKC

[Anonymous No.10145045]

It's one of the most esoteric games.

[Anonymous No.10145182]

>>10145043
K rook and the bad guys have style. The kongs and the npc kongs are cool. Cranky says some hilarious stuff. The gameplay is smooth and fun

The soundtrack slams hard too

[Anonymous No.10145192]

>the developers forgot the plot at some point so the starting conflict is never resolved, and will never be resolved

[Anonymous No.10146020]

>>10144726
so this anon wasn't far off? >>>/v/646322823

[Anonymous No.10146030]

>>10146020
Smashfags always fucking ruin everything.

[Anonymous No.10146061]

>>10146020
I still remember Operation Moonfall.
>almost a decade worse of zelda autism from smashfaqs assholes who couldn't fucking stop raiding every fan poll
>the result of it was just shitty assist trophies, a horribly misrepresented musou fanfic cameo, and a dogshit remake on the 3DS
>that one poll where people counter trolled Skull Kid babbies with Dunsparce, a literal shitmon.
This fuckfaces thought they could one up Rainfall like that.

[Anonymous No.10146103]

>>10146061
i use to debate in Smash hype threads with Zeldafags (mostly Skull Kid fanboys) on how DK and Metroid deserved another character in the game.
fuckers went on insisting how Majora's Mask, one of the worst selling Zeldas, is most priority than a whole trilogy of DKC games or the Metroid game that pretty much pioneered an entire new genre. also pulled bullshit out of his ass saying "hurr sackofrye doesn't le care about deekay and muhtroid trololol"

Skull Kid got confirmed as an Assist Trophy the next week. Years later, i got my two reptiles and fps waifu in afterwards. (but fuuuuuck Sakurai for forgetting Dixie for the 3rd time)
just funny how things eventually turn out.

[Anonymous No.10146109]

>>10146020
Smashcunts are annoying across the board, but the anons hit the mark about Minish Cap and Majora faggots.

Why is it always whatever Koizumi and Fujibayashi directs/write brings the most autism out of Zelda fans?

[Anonymous No.10146150]

>>10144726
Does your Zelda game have a cute bird lady?
No? Then it's not

[Anonymous No.10146152]

>>10144726

[Anonymous No.10146183]

>>10144726
It is very pretty

[Anonymous No.10146190]

>>10146150
*chrip chirp*

[Anonymous No.10146198]

>>10144764
Nigger MGS2 is a James Cameron movie

[Anonymous No.10146202]

>>10144807
>it’s between that or re4.
yeah figures

[Anonymous No.10147149]

>>10144764
I have 132 IQ and MGS2 is my favorite game. I love how hating it was the thing to do, until eventually it became the "smart guy" thing to put it on a pedestal, until a couple years ago, where saying it's actually mundane and pretentious and everything it says was obvious the whole time has become the "smart guy" template thing to do.

[Anonymous No.10147194]

MM is the only game that can reasonably rival Super Metroid (except maybe Dark Souls)

[Anonymous No.10147349]

>>10147194
My favorite SNES and N64 games as well.

[Anonymous No.10147508]

>>10144726
No it’s fucking not retard

[Anonymous No.10147520]

Do you recommend the 3DS version for a first timer?

[Anonymous No.10147559]

>>10147520
Yes and no. The gameplay issues can be fixed with a patch but there's nothing you can do about the aesthetic changes. The patch if you're interested:
https://restoration.zora.re/

[Anonymous No.10147667]

>>10144726
>>10145192
>In the official Hyrule Encyclopedia, it is stated that Termina is nothing more than a figment of the Skull Kid's imagination brought to life by the mask, and that once the mask was defeated and Link left, Termina ceased to exist.
So every single way the game tries to tug at your heart strings with the threat of suffering of its world inhabitants should you fail to save them is completely meaningless because none of it mattered at all? This is like Dragon Ball Z trying to instill fear of character death in a universe where wishes can bring anyone back to life.

[Anonymous No.10147671]

>tfw still no minora's mask
what a bunch of vaginas

[Anonymous No.10147686]

>>10147149
Being right all the time must suck ass in a world that is so gay. Who honestly wants to apprehend the full, true gayness oh things 24/7

[Anonymous No.10147709]

>>10147559
MM3D is aesthetically superior to the original close to outright though.

[Anonymous No.10147732]

>>10147709
Now post the observatory and the moon

[Anonymous No.10147739]

>>10147732
>the observatory
The rainbow stairs are garbage vertex recolors slapped on a basic wood texture. It looks horrible and is improved greatly by the 3DS changes.

>the moon
I'll give to you this though, it shouldn't' look like Shrek.

[Anonymous No.10147741]

>>10144726
how old are you?

[Anonymous No.10147753]

Is it cool to like this game again or did I just time travel back to the early 2010s?

[Anonymous No.10147795]

>>10147753
MM always had haters

[Anonymous No.10147803]

>>10147795
I think you misinterpreted his point

[Anonymous No.10147904]

>>10144959
MM is all about depth, not breadth. Making you play through more than 3 days in a repeated cycle would make it way too tedious.

[Anonymous No.10148307]

>>10147667
Crazy how the just copypasted Link's Awakening's plot

[Anonymous No.10148501]

>>10147709
Too bad MM3D is a steaming pile of dogshit. It feels like your stepping on dog shit the entire game. And zora link swims like dog shit.

[Anonymous No.10148581]

>>10147709
looks like a soulless late ps2 game

[Anonymous No.10148606]

>>10146061
>>10146103
There was a dev interview with the Zelda Musou where the producers were like "Skull Kid? The fuck? How would that even work as a viable character" and the rest of the staff like "um we can think of SOMETHING?"

[Anonymous No.10148614]

>>10147149
>I have 132 IQ
Best way to confirm you're a failure is to post your IQ test result like it means anything. My friend scored a 96 on the one they made us do in high school, he owns multiple restaurants, where as I (who scored 109) am sitting here on my day off talking to you.
If you were actually smart you would acknowledge how poorly written the game is, and say despite it being a thoroughly mediocre game, you still enjoyed it. I did too, btw, Solidus versus the Rays is a fucking amazing scene, it makes me wish Kojima would go and direct some anime already!

[Anonymous No.10148843]

>>10144726
>s the greatest single piece of art gaming has ever produced.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzDPk8tqwvQ
This music playing as the 501st land on Kamino to kill their brothers in star wars battlefront 2 on the Ps2
Like tears in the rain

[Anonymous No.10148856]

>>10148614
I have an IQ that was measured consistently above 140 as a child and young adult. It did more harm to my life than anything else. I only began to be able to process the cage of ideocracy I was trapped in after crippling my mind with drug abuse. I ended up doing a PHd in a university with people twice my age in a subject that I hated. People actually get excited by sportsball. People watch soap operas. People murder each other over numbers on a screen. People on here pretend the Nazis did not mass murder people and think its funny. People like Nintendo shit. People mutilate their genitals and believe in shit like man made global warming and communism. All manner of toxic stupid.

[Anonymous No.10148874]

>>10148614
It's almost like the person I'm replying to mentioned that first as some sort of arbitrary barrier of entry, huh?
It's not poorly written, it has no pretensions of being compared to high quality literature, people that do it have already failed, anything can be relativized if you're disingenuous enough.
Some of the clunkiness gives it charm, the headspace Kojima was at that point in time informed a lot of the writing decisions, some of his feelings got in there, and what the result was a happy accident for the most part, not to mention it had to go through the wringer of translation as well. It's not mediocre at all and you should be embarrassed of having to qualify your opinions with that sort of shit beforehand, you fucking cuck. It's also good mechanically, there's plenty of tech to be mastered at a high level of play and a Big Boss run of the game offers good challenge. Sounds like you have cursory understanding of the game and here you are trying to sound like you know what you're talking about, but then again that's /vr/ in a nutshell.

[Anonymous No.10148950]

>>10144807
>it’s between that or re4.
fuck i guess MGS2 is actually dogshit.

[Anonymous No.10148968]

>>10148856
>I have an IQ that was measured consistently above 140 as a child and young adult. It did more harm to my life than anything else.
if that aint the truth i dont know what is,being smart is both a blessing and a curse,its honestly annoying being smart and having retard argue the dumbest bullshit with you and the retard think themselves smart because they think they know it all while the smart people can be led to think themselves stupid because they know they dont have all the answers and the retard gaslight them into thinking they are wrong because they are the majority.

[Anonymous No.10149056]

>>10144726
Look man I love MM to death but that's a heck of a hyperbole. Shadow of the Colossus is a much more competitive entry for that title.

[Anonymous No.10149068]

>>10148856
A high IQ doesn't help you in a world full of emotionally unstable people. At least you weren't depraved enough to take advantage of them, or sad enough to flaunt it on a video game forum like the midwit below you.
>>10148874
You're still trying to convince everyone here how smart you are and yet you couldn't figure out he was poking fun at himself. He had enough self awareness to not go onto a fucking a video game forum and talk about how smart he is. If this: >>10148968 is you, then good job outing yourself even further.
You're not being a cuck by admitting you like mediocre or outright bad media, either, some things are so bad they end up being funny. Your posts being a prime example

[Anonymous No.10149097]

>>10144764
I love MGS2. It's an important piece of gaming history and a work of art in-and-of-itself, but it's not the greatest work of art video games has to offer.
Same goes for Majora's Mask - it's definitely the best game on it's platform, right ahead of Ocarina of Time, and the best game in it's series, but also not the greatest work of art in gaming.
That being said, I'd suggest a game like Loom or even LSD: The Dream Emulator as examples of artistically valuable video games.
t. 130 IQ

[Anonymous No.10149156]

>>10147667
>completely meaningless because none of it mattered at all
But it mattered for Link. He assumed it was real, so it mattered for him. At the end of the day, no game matter since it's all bytes.

[Anonymous No.10149261]

>>10148606
>even Toei and the Zelda thinks Skull kid is a stretch to implement in an action title
Lol lmao

[Anonymous No.10149283]

>>10149261
Yeah lol, skull kid was really well implemented as the antagonist given that is his power is entirely given to him via the fucking namesake of the game. It makes sense given that during the child trading quest in OoT, skull kid takes the skull mask. Literally which other OoT character would you even choose as a villain, given the sequel to the "greatest game of all time" is centered around masks? The kid in the graveyard? The running man? The death mountain gate guard? Skull kid works perfectly as a vessel for the antagonist that is Majora's Mask itself.

[Anonymous No.10149289]

>>10149261
*Koei

[Anonymous No.10150589]

>>10148606
>>10149261
>>10149261
Skull Kid, the specific Skull Kid who then drops the Moon in MM, becomes an enemy in OoT who you actually fight directly and is perfectly capable of defending himself using blowdarts while having the best evasive skills of anything in the game.

People are clearly being retards who didn't play the fucking games.

[Anonymous No.10151461]

>>10147667
Hyrule Historia is not the final word on what is canon or not

[Anonymous No.10151468]

>>10144763
>nooo not the timer I can reset at any time while still keeping my money and items!

[Anonymous No.10151605]

>>10151468
Just a pet peeve I have when it comes to video games, anon. I never said the game was bad

[Anonymous No.10151864]

>>10144959
This game is everything Shenmu wants to be. Shenmu sucks!

[Anonymous No.10151881]

>>10144726
Lol. Lmao even. Let me guess, you were born after 2000

[Anonymous No.10151894]

>>10144748
If you're filtered it means you didn't complete it you fucking retard

>>10144959
Should have been four days, four in Asian languages sounds the same as their word for death and is unlucky

[Anonymous No.10151896]

>>10151468
it's the psychological effect

[Anonymous No.10151905]

>>10144770
>lifted from Deus Ex
MGS2's original script was written in 1999

[Anonymous No.10151921]

>>10151905
The conspiracy theories and old sci-fi novels Deus Ex was based on are decades older. The idea that humanity would build an artificial intelligence to replace God (which is what The Patriots and Helios are) is from a novel. I know another anon said that there are no new ideas, but Kojima is infamous for copying other games and then taking credit for inventing genres, so I don't buy that he had planned in advance

[Anonymous No.10151925]

>>10151881
1998 bitch

[Anonymous No.10151928]

>>10144726
It is in fact Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri, but Majora's Mask is up there.
>>10144770
>>10144807
Haven't played MGS2, but I wouldn't call RE4 art per se. It is an incredible video game, one of the very best, but it lacks that extra something to resonate with your core and make it more than just a very fun and tightly-crafted experience.
>>10149056
>>10149097
>SotC, Loom
I also haven't played these but am willing to entertain the possibility they surpass MM. LSD though seems rather superficial from the outside.

[Anonymous No.10151952]

>>10151928
If you go by the traditional definition of art than MGS2 absolutely qualifies. That game is all about the message and the player's enjoyment is an afterthought. RE4 isn't because it's a game first, it priorities the player over the story it's telling, which is how it should be imo. Some games can do both, but I would rather the focus be on the latter

[Anonymous No.10151993]

>>10147149
>until a couple years ago, where saying it's actually mundane and pretentious and everything it says was obvious the whole time has become the "smart guy" template thing to do
Not retro I know, but the same thing seems to be happening to Spec Ops: The Line. It's like gaming has created a second ring of hipsters that want to look smarter than the first ring.

[Anonymous No.10152003]

>>10145043
It's a simple but beautiful adventure. The level settings are visually and aurally gorgeous. A gorilla and a spider monkey trekking their homeland to steal their bananas back from a pirate is like an old fairy tale, or a classic Disney animated film.

[Anonymous No.10152057]

>>10151952
>the latter
So, the story it's telling? I'm not sure which sentence you meant that to refer to.
>can do both
Yeah, I think those are the only ones that should be eligible for "greatest piece of gaming art". It has to be great art while simultaneously a great game. If MGS2's gameplay is weak, then it should be notable but not in the running alongside the handful or two of games that have managed the feat of nailing both goals simultaneously.
Thinking more on this, I think I would put up for contention Katawa Shoujo and Dwarf Fortress. They're both unconventional, but their gameplay does reinforce central themes.
The amount/style of choices in Katawa Shoujo change depending on the route, and the game's themes are very thoughtfully integrated and well-told. Not many games are instructive to empathy, since conflict and victory are so much more reasily realized in terms of gameplay. A VN has barely any gameplay, yes, but I think within the scope of what gameplay there is the creators did extremely well.
Dwarf Fortress doesn't have an explicit story, but the depth of the simulation and the range of possibilities allows for an internal/imagined one to develop, which is definitely artistic. I'll always remember the time I caught myself thinking, "what, another band of desperate immigrants that have no skills beyond soap making? I'll conscript them immediately, maybe they'll at least function as shields for the soldiers I'm currently training, and provide value that way". I realized the necessities of fortress survival had seamlessly put me in the position of being a cruelly practical despot, even though I was otherwise trying to maximize happiness in the fort. The designer didn't intend to do this, but the gameplay teaches the player to look at society and government from the angle of someone other than just a cog in the machine. To understand what it's like to have to make tough decisions where there's no win-win option on the table.

[Anonymous No.10152060]

>>10149068
Weak.
>>10151993
That's weird, since Spec Ops The Line is extremely shallow. It's like the devs played MGS2 and Bioshock 1, which had already tried to unsuccessfully copy MGS2's meta twist formula, and then did a terrible attempt at it. Doing an unironic "ummmm war is actually hell and not fun like most videogames portray it okay guys" take was pretty weird.

[Anonymous No.10152068]

>>10151921
https://junkerhq.net/MGS2gameplan.pdf

[Anonymous No.10152119]

>>10152057
>So, the story it's telling? I'm not sure which sentence you meant that to refer to.
Games that prioritize the story and games that prioritize the gameplay. In the sentence story is the former and gameplay is the latter.
>everything else
What your describing is what makes games much better than films and books. Unintentional or not you started caring for the pixels on the screen and that's something special. I wouldn't call it art, though
>>10152068
I'll have a read through it, if it turns out I'm wrong I apologize

[Anonymous No.10152174]

they should have ditched the three-day cycle. That alone would have made it a playable versus unenjoyable game.

[Anonymous No.10152198]

>>10152119
>wouldn't call it art
It's a very nebulous concept, so I understand what you mean. I consider the empathetic or new-perspective angles to be one dimension of art, though. You could write out a logical essay about "it's important to care for other people in tough situations because of X, Y, and Z", but beyond acknowledging the conclusions as correct it isn't likely to actually impact the reader's behavior much. But watching a poignant film that expresses those concepts in a more abstract or emotional manner might really strike a chord with the watcher, in a way that actually shapes their responses to situations in the future and makes them meditate/reflect on certain scenes or interactions even years later. It's different to be told "leaders have to make tough decisions" than to actually be in the seat and live that experience yourself, or even to watch a biopic film about a famous figure going through a crisis and gain appreciation for the minutiae of the scenario they're trying to stay on top of. I'm not really sure what to label these if not one aspect of art.

[Anonymous No.10155059]

>>10144726
I love majora's mask too, really like a more dark and grim zelda. but i still recognize that OoT is the better more polished game overall.

[Anonymous No.10155165]

>>10155059
They both suck compared to Zelda and Zelda 2 which also both suck compared to Wonder boy 2 and 3.

[Anonymous No.10155858]

>>10144726
I agree. Glad to see people taking notice.

[Anonymous No.10156019]

>>10151921
Not just from a novel. It's found in every work that glorifies gnostic/luciferian ideology. The idea that man can replace God or even become Him is one that stretches back to the first lie ever told by the Devil. "Ye shall be as gods".

An evil force animates media that glorifies this concept.

[Anonymous No.10156058]

>>10151881
I'm born in the end 80s and I also agree with him

[Anonymous No.10156064]

>>10145045
the color palette is just perfect for some reasons

[Anonymous No.10157602]

>>10144726
I prefer Twilight Princess