/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.10144004]

how do you feel about crt emulation?

[Anonymous No.10144006]

I love it

[Anonymous No.10144145]

>>10144004
A poor substitute but I suppose it's better than nothing

[Anonymous No.10144157]

>>10144004
pretty terrible

[Anonymous No.10144168]

>>10144004
Over time it will get to the point where you get to choose which crt tv type you play on. An old zenith, Trinitron, Yamaha, Daewoo, etc... I imagine there will be a breakthrough in filter technology similar to enb's. Where it will take some GPU power(not much) to basically make a simulacra of how the rays bounce off the phosphorus.

[Anonymous No.10144172]

>>10144004
its shit. neck yourself zoomer, you'll never experience old games the way they were intended. you'll never come home from school and hear the static hum of a CRT as you play super mario world. its more than just a shitty half ass filter that will never look like the real thing. go back to playing fortnite or jew vegas or whatever you tranny freaks like.

[Anonymous No.10144173]

>>10144004
I like crt filters that provide a clean but smoother image.

Crt shaders that try to replicate shitty signals (composite) and/or curvature are pure cope.

[Anonymous No.10144194]

>>10144172
>jew vegas
Anon, I was playing smw on a crt in the 90s and I play new Vegas and Skyrim... Ohh no somebody stop me
Faggot

[Anonymous No.10144240]

>>10144004
The amount of seethe they bring is amazing. You can post a filter almost indistinguishable from the real thing and have some contrarian fag tell you it looks nothing like a real crt. They are absolutely essential when playing early 3D games.

[Anonymous No.10144270]

>>10144004
>PXGP: OFF
>Resolution: 240p
>Bilinear filter: ON
>ntsc-320px-gauss-scanline.slangp

[Anonymous No.10144284]

>>10144270
I have a crt monitor and a gpu with a dvi analog out so I can play 240p native emulation with it and it looks amazing.

[Anonymous No.10144587]

They look terrible and you have to be a retard to even entertain playing that way.
If a LCD is all you have, just play it that way.

[Anonymous No.10144592]

It's a literal grid of pixels that block half the image.

[Anonymous No.10144603]

>>10144004
You might have finished 15 retro games you've never played before in the last 12 months, but I'm better than you because I didn't emulate and I when I boot a retro game I paid $100 for and look at it on my CRT for 15 minutes, I know it's the real experience

[Anonymous No.10144674]

[Anonymous No.10144679]

>>10144004
As someone who has a CRT and have no intention of using filters I appreciate them. They might not look 100% accurate, but they're definitely an improvement over raw LCD.

[Anonymous No.10144681]

>>10144004
good for saturn I suppose
I don't hate it, but plenty of implementations are just nonsense
things seem to be getting better though

[Anonymous No.10144702]

>>10144004
I only use them for 2D (third and fourth gen) games. For 3D stuff i prefer the opposite, enhancements to take advantage of the higher resolution.

[Anonymous No.10144710]

Based and it makes the CRTroomers on here seethe, pretty soon their cinderblocks will be totally obsolete and they’ll have to pick a different piece of retro technology to try and be an “enthusiast” about (they’re trying to pump prices so you buy their garbage)

[Anonymous No.10144761]

>>10144240
>You can post a filter almost indistinguishable from the real thing and have some contrarian fag tell you it looks nothing like a real crt.
It's not contrarianism IT DOES NOT LOOK LIKE A CRT. Maybe if you compare a CRT shot through a camera sure but it's nowhere near how a CRT looks irl. CRT shaders have an extremely ugly look especially the bloom ones.

[Anonymous No.10144768]

>>10144240
Photographing a CRT isn't the same as looking at one in real life with your own eyeballs. A CRT doesn't look like they do in a photo.

[Anonymous No.10144816]

>>10144768
>>10144761
>what you see isn’t real because i don’t want it to be

Do CRTkeks really, this is audiophile tier delusion

[Anonymous No.10144818]

>>10144816
I don't even own a CRT. They literally cannot be photographed accurately. How hard is it to understand.

[Anonymous No.10144841]

>>10144004
I wonder if we'll ever end up at a point in display tech where LCD nostalgia filters are a thing. Imagine a filter that simulates shit like backlight bleed and overly bright blacks.

[Anonymous No.10144847]

>>10144004
Better than playing on a CRT. Display lag and stuttering from vsync or tearing without is fucking sad in 2023.
And no, one autist hacking a CRT to have VRR doesn't means CRTs have VRR you sperg

[Anonymous No.10144861]

>>10144818
>I don't even own a CRT. They literally cannot be photographed accurately. How hard is it to understand.

[Anonymous No.10144865]

>>10144004
Just play on a smaller screen sit farther away from the screen.
Solves most dither problems and it's good for your eye sight.

[Anonymous No.10144867]

>>10144004 (OP)
Just play on a smaller screen or sit farther away from the screen.
Solves most dither problems and it's good for your eye sight.

[Anonymous No.10144973]

it's autistic
raw pixels or nothing

[Anonymous No.10145070]

>>10144004
Its great if you have a good filter and a 4K television. 1080p just doesn't have the resolution for convincing phosphor filters so it tends to look like ass.

[Anonymous No.10145097]

>>10144004
it's pretty much essential when you're going to play retro games in a lower resolution on a high-definition monitor.
I do have a CRT monitor but it's a little bit lackluster in terms of the diagonal screen size so often I'll opt for playing it on my LCD screen instead.

its a shame too because CRTs were still really cheap in europe a short few years ago. now they're skyrocketing in value likely due to american influence.

[Anonymous No.10145116]

>>10144004
Use it only for prerendered 2D, which looks like shit otherwise (DKC)

[Anonymous No.10145118]

>>10144004
Well if you're going to emulate, it's a good thing. Personally I'm anti-emulation for my gaming. A lot of these games need this filter too look more accurate.

[Anonymous No.10145448]

>>10144004
It's fine but people usually misuse them

[Anonymous No.10145492]

>>10144004
I like them, and I don't really like playing without them. I think agonizing over them is horrific, though, and a monumental waste of time. I appreciate there are people out there working on real accuracy, but if the average dude is doing that just to play games on his own, their priorities are fucked. If you're spending more times changing numbers instead of playing games, it's time to stop.
I also go the extra step with a little bit of curvature and composite noise because I recognize it's not an entirely rational choice to play with these filters and that nostalgia plays a big part in it, though. I slap on a decent shader, add a bit of curve if it doesn't have it, and get to playing. The minute details don't really matter if you're sitting the intended distance away instead of at your desk, anyway.

[Anonymous No.10145496]

Do the math.

[Anonymous No.10145520]

>>10144004
Impossible, at best all you are doing is emulating what a photo of a CRT looks like, which is nothing like an actual CRT.

[Anonymous No.10145586]

>>10144603
based cat poster.

[Anonymous No.10145592]

>>10144710
>(they’re trying to pump prices so you buy their garbage)
how the fuck does that make sense,the reason i got a crt was because i could get one for free up to 20 bucks to take it off the hands of some boomer,the price going up means less people buy them.

[Anonymous No.10145593]

>>10145520
That’s your opinion and not fact. You don’t know enough and you aren’t a crt expert to claim that, you’re just another /vr/ poster. I’ve gone ahead and discarded your opinion, let me know when a real expert can back up this claim.

[Anonymous No.10145647]

>>10145496
You need a 4K or 8k screen and an emulator that is programmed in conjunction with the filter to emulate the beam scanning and sub frames required. You can’t just add a filter onto a 60hz output emulator. Like people are saying…you have to emulate the CRT output from source to screen. A CRT filter doesn’t cut it

[Anonymous No.10145689]

>>10144194
Based troon out new vagina

[Anonymous No.10145708]

>>10144168
>it will take some GPU power(not much)
where i live it's cheaper to get crt than gpu that can handle this nonsense

[Anonymous No.10145719]

>>10145647
>You need a 4K
I have a real CRT, I don't need to paypig like you do. I like the shader aesthetics better than raw pixels.

[Anonymous No.10145763]

>>10145719
A 4K TV is good for being...a TV though. People still use TVs for more than retro gaming ya know.

[Anonymous No.10145879]

>>10144004
i prefer slot mask shaders because i didn't know anyone with an aperture grille

[Anonymous No.10145885]

>>10144168
we're already there, boomer

[Anonymous No.10145893]

>>10145647
No you don't. You're just a seething anal retard.

>NOOO YOU CAN'T PLAY IT THAT WAY! IT'S NOT CORRECT!
Try and stop me, you insufferable virginal twat.

[Anonymous No.10145898]

>>10144592
you seem to be confusing advanced shaders with simple overlays.

[Anonymous No.10145905]

>>10144710
they'll be long dead before they run out of cancer ray tubes, especially with their furry-like diets

[Anonymous No.10145906]

>>10145647
>Being an elitist over fucking shaders
You sound insufferable.
Guest not only adds options to his shader for 1080p and even makes presets for that resolution.

[Anonymous No.10145912]

>>10144847
it really is nice to not have the eye fatigue and whine. i used to feel icky after long CRT sessions

[Anonymous No.10145919]

>>10144973
raw pixels cannot be displayed, because they are infinitesimal point samples from which an image can be extrapolated. rendering them as big squares is needlessly shitty

[Anonymous No.10145924]

>>10144004
Personally not a fan of any sort of scanline filter unless I can run it at 4K, which isn't often. So I stick to NTSC filters to produce the feel without the lines.

[Anonymous No.10145943]

I have a nice CRT, and I use filters when I find them. I think retroarch has something called CRT Royale, or that kind of name. My problem is I don't have a lot of free time, and so I don't keep up with filter shit.
My question to anons: Is there something you can use that just puts a filter over anything? Not just emulator windows but any program. I could see this having potential for something like old PC games as well.
My other benefit would be if it could free me from retroarch. I hate using that software. The menus are probably nice for people used to that, but I just want to use standalone emus and the toolbar file menu that I'm already well used to, as well as not having to dig around for settings/config/not knowing the hotkeys. Much easier to just boot up nestopia and the like and go from there.
But anyway yeah, can anon hook me up with some filter software that I can just run over top of a given emu or program?

[Anonymous No.10145967]

>>10145943
ShaderGlass

[Anonymous No.10146027]

>>10145943
ReShade is an option, and can be used at the same time as RetroArch shaders if you have enough CPU/GPU for it

[Anonymous No.10146137]

3D looks like shit at 240p no matter what you do.

[Anonymous No.10146208]

>>10145885
Yeah but like, where? I have yet to find a good shader that properly emulates the look of a Trinitron, or even an actual CRT in the first place, anywhere on the Internet.

[Anonymous No.10146262]

>>10146208
aperture grille should be easier than slot mask to simulate, and current slot mask shaders are convincing enough for me, having grown up with slot mask tubes. it often looks better to me than the actual arcade cabinets around here.

have you tried CRT-Royale?

[Anonymous No.10146475]

There needs to be an all-in-one easy to setup and easy to configure shader. Some shaders look good right now but there's too many of them with way too many unnecessary parameters

[Anonymous No.10146510]

>>10146475
Moron all the variety exists because people can’t agree on what good looks like

[Anonymous No.10146589]

>>10146475
there are pre-configured shaders that just werk ***for their intended use case***

i don't need to touch the parameters on any of them

[Anonymous No.10146821]

>>10146475
Gust advanced presets are easy to use and we need those parameters to simulate the different setups. You end up having to tinker with at least some of the parameters because of your monitor anyway

[Anonymous No.10146832]

>>10144270
>Bilinear filter: ON
Does it make any difference? I think, nowadays, shaders automatically bypass bilinear filtering. If it's desirable, then it's enabled on the shader itself.

[Anonymous No.10147381]

it's gaming time

[Anonymous No.10147437]

>>10144004
>how do you feel about crt emulation?
If there was a HW box that actually had scan line that would be wonderful

[Anonymous No.10147620]

>>10146137
Just like 240D looks like shit at 3p.

[Anonymous No.10147625]

It's fine. Is the one in OPs pic found in retroarch?

[Anonymous No.10147630]

>>10144004
i would rather play withouth it but it looks nice enough

[Anonymous No.10147691]

>>10147625
yes, its crt-royale-ntsc-256px-composite.glslp i think

[Anonymous No.10147986]

>>10144168
We're already just about there, looks-wise. The thing is, it's not just up to the shader - the display has to pull its weight as well. You can have the world's most advanced shader, but if the TV or monitor is dogshit or is lacking in resolution and/or brightness, well, there's only so much the shader will be able to do. A super advanced shader will not magically improve the average IPS monitor's contrast and black levels to match a CRT's, and resolution matters a lot as well. At 1080p you can get pretty good aperture grille emulation since the pattern is so simple, but you'll ideally want more than that for slot and shadow masks.

All that said, check out the Sony Megatron shader. Features-wise it has nothing on Royale or Guest-Advanced, which are the most complex shaders, but that's because unlike those shaders, it's made to take full advantage of high-nit HDR displays. When used on such displays with HDR enabled, nothing else comes close to matching a CRT. It comes with a lot of different profiles to emulate all kinds of displays, including arcade CRTs, PVMs, and even some PC CRTs.

[Anonymous No.10147995]

>>10144841
There's LCD shaders already, though they're for shit like emulating the old Gameboy screens up to the GBA.

[Anonymous No.10148007]

>>10145070
1080p is mostly fine for Trinitron-esque shaders. The real problem is drawing both the scanline gaps and the phosphor mask reduces light output by upwards of 50% or more, and most 1080p displays aren't that bright, which is why people resort to shit like lowering the mask strength or adding artificial bloom or glow to recover some of that brightness back, at which point you lose authenticity. To draw proper, fully intact masks and scanlines without such artificial measures requires a very bright display, ideally one outputting at least 700 nits or so.

[Anonymous No.10148043]

>>10147986
>>10148007
HDR also makes a world of difference. I think a 1440p HDR is enough for most shaders to look good
still... I personally agree with that anon and eventually there'll be a big breakthrough in CRT shaders. I mean, I'm hoping for it, as CRTs will eventually die out

[Anonymous No.10148491]

>>10144194
What movie is that from

[Anonymous No.10148513]

Id love to get into shaders, I'm a real hardware on a CRT type. Where do I even start? My TV is a LG OLED of that matters

[Anonymous No.10148558]

>>10148491
Total Recall.
The good one.

[Anonymous No.10148719]

>>10148007
>>10148043
you can get creative and get good results with 1080p
pic related is gdv mini (the "lite" version of guest advanced) and ntsc composite (as you can see by the fucked up artifact in the fence)

[Anonymous No.10148896]

>>10148513
You'll definitely want to try Sony Megatron. On a good TV with HDR, it'll deliver the best and most authentic results.

[Anonymous No.10148954]

[Anonymous No.10149064]

>>10144004
its really tempting to just make every 3d game higher res.
like yeah op's left shot looks great because your brain fills in the info, but really you're missing a lot of detail.

[Anonymous No.10149381]

>>10144004
no matter what, LCDfags can't succesfully emulate sample hold, the true CRT color depth, or electron beam projection. the best you can do is backlight strobing kek and that hardly solves anything

[Anonymous No.10149385]

It seems hit and miss. Some games look a lot better with it but others are fine even with "heckin' sharp pixelrinos!"

[Anonymous No.10149392]

>>10149064
>missing a lot of detail
that's not how CRTs work. it's the same level of detail, being painted onto a phosphor screen with an electron beam using a strobing cathode ray, sometimes 3 at once. they actually usually look better in person, due to the interlacing gaussian blur smoothing out hard edged pixels for a softer, more natural look. not only that, but there is no image latency like with an lcd screen. so motion is much smoother and more realistic, which is great especially for racing games and sidescrollers. you're actually getting the same information but in a slightly better picture quality. crt filters are retarded because for most late era crt monitors you dont see giant fucking scanlines they look like lcd screens just with better technical specs and slightly worst contrast (although the trade off for contrast is vivid depth)

[Anonymous No.10149398]

>>10144603
I did both so I'm uncontestedly a better gamer than you.

[Anonymous No.10149828]

>>10145924
What's the point of using NTSC filters at 4K?
Just downsample from 4K.

[Anonymous No.10149836]

>>10144004
I think it's even dumber than using a CRT. Which is pretty fucking dumb.

[Anonymous No.10149838]

>>10149064
I don't mind upres'ing for Gamecube/Dreamcast/PS2 onward, but for lower polygon games I'd rather just play at their native resolution, or rather, downsample.
Your screenshot for example just looks worse to me. If you downsampled you'd still have the added detail in the distance without making everything look too clean.

Not sure if Saturn emulators allow downsampling though.

[Anonymous No.10149861]

>>10149828
A big part of how a CRT looks different compared to an LCD is the edge of each scanline. This is a very fine detail compared to the image as a whole, so to emulate the detail on a display that doesn't work that way takes a very high resolution.

[Anonymous No.10149962]

>>10149838
I think you may be able to use Guest-Advanced to handle the downsampling. It has a parameter for it, at least.

[Anonymous No.10149978]

>>10149392
Ok. You still can't fucking read the screen in the background without running it in high-res.

[Anonymous No.10150017]

>>10149978
maybe if youre using a filter on an lcd. you can read perfectly fine on a crt monitor lol

[Anonymous No.10150025]

>>10149064
That resolution actually emphasises the lack of detail, while the original resolution allows you to believe there's more going on.

Low poly and small textures should always be paired with low res. Octagons become circle's at a low enough resolution.

[Anonymous No.10150032]

Whatever floats your boat man

[Anonymous No.10151207]

>>10144004
The problem with CRT shaders is that they look like what CRTs look through a picture or video, not what you actually see when looking at one in real life.

[Anonymous No.10151221]

>>10145924
what filter is that?

[Anonymous No.10152440]

>>10144240
Hello sir.

[Anonymous No.10152952]

>>10151207
No way to prove that, making it up

[Anonymous No.10152975]

>>10152952
i know because i have a crt and tried shaders,seethe cope and dilate.

[Anonymous No.10153019]

>>10146832
you can prepend/append a bilinear shader which is separate from global RA settings

[Anonymous No.10153037]

>>10144004
Completely missing the point of CRTs, which is line-by-line low persistence with zero latency.

[Anonymous No.10153038]

>>10152975
>because I think I see it this way it's 100% that way for everyone in all situations

pseud

[Anonymous No.10153047]

some filters to correct issues like blending or transparency are a good idea, but I don't see the appeal of shit like CRT and scanline filters. If you're gonna play stuff on a modern display I'd figure you might as well take advantage of it for a clearer picture.

[Anonymous No.10153189]

>>10153047
blending pre rendered assets is also a good thing about shaders

[Anonymous No.10153235]

>>10144004
They're fine, but they really don't interest me personally because I have enough actual CRTs to use

[Anonymous No.10153267]

>>10153019
I know, but I feel like the "bilinear filtering" is only honored if shaders are disabled. When you enable them, it doesn't matter if bilinear filtering is on or off, the shader will do its thing regardless, end result won't differ. I say that because people always recommend turning it off for shaders, but I've never seen a difference. I'd like to know if there's a practical case, so I can check it out.

[Anonymous No.10153284]

>>10151207
It's the bloom. It washes out the mask much like photos of CRTs do. To be as accurate as possible, you need to use full strength masks without any fake bloom or glow to mitigate it, but unless you have a very bright display (preferably with HDR), you'll get a very dim image.

[Anonymous No.10153781]

[Anonymous No.10153786]

>>10153781
This is not only way too dark but also genuinely hurting my eyes

[Anonymous No.10154096]

>>10153781
what does it look like with normal brightness?

[Anonymous No.10154138]

>>10154096
Ideally like a low-end CRT without scanlines. It looks super dark because without mitigating parameters like glow or bloom, that particular slot mask layout will block out something like a quarter of the pixels, and most monitors are too dim to make up for that loss even at full backlight.

[Anonymous No.10154147]

>>10144004
I just have a CRT monitor as my second display and play old games on it

[Anonymous No.10154597]

>>10144145
>A poor substitute
Seething crtroon
It's not a poor substitute at all
The reality of the situation is that with 4K resolution we can emulate all kinds of CRTs

[Anonymous No.10154598]

>>10144240
This

>>10144761
>>10144768
>>10152440
Retarded neckbeard trannies
Gtfo

[Anonymous No.10154603]

>>10144674
This makes CRT hipsters seethe

[Anonymous No.10154604]

>>10144847
CRTs don't need VRR(for retro games anyways) since they sync to the correct rate
If you're talking about modern games then carry on

[Anonymous No.10154606]

>>10145492
>If you're spending more times changing numbers instead of playing games, it's time to stop.
GTFO
People can spend their time as they want

[Anonymous No.10154609]

>>10145647
>emulate the beam scanning
Retardation
Why would you want to emulate a flawed thing such as electron gun scanning?

You want to emulate the masks/TVLines/Dot Pitch

[Anonymous No.10154613]

>>10145520
>at best all you are doing is emulating what a photo of a CRT looks like
This is the goddamn stupidest shit you CRT neckbeards parrot here all the time

People are emulating masks based on macro shots
Just stop posting

[Anonymous No.10154634]

>>10154613
There is no arrangement of pixels that can be driven into a flat panel to replicate the look of a CRT.

[Anonymous No.10154789]

>>10149064
I prefer this look for 3D games to be honest. The filter makes a lot more sense for 2D pixel-based games but for 3D games I'd rather just play them at native resolution if possible

[Anonymous No.10155135]

>>10144674
if he real

[Anonymous No.10155379]

>>10149064
That right there is how I remember Sonic R. On PC.
PC master race.

[Anonymous No.10155390]

>>10145496
>dithering just fucking disappears
magic

[Anonymous No.10155426]

Why do I love my filters extra crispy bros, I love that PVM look

[Anonymous No.10155529]

>>10154634
You are retarded
Stop posting

[Anonymous No.10155538]

>>10144004
Raw looks better, CRT filter is an oof. There is no reason to recreate the tech limitations of the past just for authenticity's sake.

[Anonymous No.10155540]

>>10144004
The problem is that CRT filters are usually way too extreme. I have a crappy old CRT TV and it still looks nothing like that.

[Anonymous No.10155554]

>>10149978
>>10150017
There is something fucky going on in either OPs image or this one >>10149064

[Anonymous No.10155557]

>>10151207
>The problem with CRT shaders is that they look like what CRTs look through a picture or video
No the DO NOT you fucking fat neckbeard
Stop parroting your dumb meme

[Anonymous No.10155561]

>>10153284
It's stupid poorfag cunts on /vr/ with shit monitors who do that all the time and post pics of their garbage ass settings

[Anonymous No.10155565]

>>10153037
>line-by-line low persistence with zero latency
Holy buzzword batman

[Anonymous No.10155571]

>>10153047
>Use modern displays like I tell you or don't use them
DIE

[Anonymous No.10155825]

>>10149392
>sees CRT filter that simulates old lowres TVs
>hurr highres PC monitors don't look like that
no shit

[Anonymous No.10155832]

>>10155390
Disgusting.
Visible dither or bust.

[Anonymous No.10155848]

>>10155832
retard zoomzoom opinion

[Anonymous No.10155991]

>>10155426
>Why
I've been preparing myself to tell you this. It happened when you were 6-years old, on a rainy tuesday night...

[Anonymous No.10156350]

>>10154604
If it's analog, yes. If you're using digital, then you must use vsync.

[Anonymous No.10156613]

>>10154606
Is your goal playing games, or changing numbers? If you want to be changing numbers, sure, time enjoyed is not time wasted. But people aren't typically downloading emulators to spend their time doing that instead of playing fucking games.
You know exactly what I meant, and the, "people can spend their time as they want," line is tired and has never been an intelligent response to any statement.

[Anonymous No.10156827]

>>10154597
Needs to be a 4K OLED with BFI, in that case yes it works quite well.

[Anonymous No.10157214]

Looks pretty SOULFUL to me. Things looked better when they looked "worse".

[Anonymous No.10157235]

>>10154597
like I said, poor substitute

[Anonymous No.10157365]

>>10144761
>IT DOES NOT LOOK LIKE A CRT
CRT is required for two things - low latency (which average player will not notice) and dithering/blending/other stuff, that makes bunch of pixels look like a character/weapon/chandelier etc (which filters do just a-okay). Therefore in most cases, considering brightness, filters, when properly tuned, are, in fact, as good as crt or, in several cases, are superior.

[Anonymous No.10157420]

>>10144004
People will tell you it's bad while ignoring the image of the right. Even if you think it'd bad it's a massive upgrade

[Anonymous No.10158671]

>>10144004
Look at a game magazine from back in the day and publicity photos would resemble the raw render on the right. That’s the way the game was intended to look

[Anonymous No.10158689]

>>10144004
I love it and my presets but it's borderline useless to recommend them because they compress/thumbnail poorly on here and when actually used won't match the display they were calibrated for.

[Anonymous No.10159591]

>>10158689
Just open them in a new tab. You're right about calibrating for each display though.

[Anonymous No.10159598]

>>10158689
This happens a lot. If I test the same preset, with the same parameters, in a same resolution, I still get differences depending on the screen. Taking a screenshot is more like illustrative than representative.

[Anonymous No.10159613]

>>10158689
Only retards don't open images on a new tab and check their true resolution

[Anonymous No.10160336]

>>10145496
>"hrmmm our gamuru is a rittur gritchy"
>spend 6 months fixing the code to make the graphics work despite the technical limitations, binding the textures together
>"finarry.. i hopu they appreciate our hard worku"
>25 years later
>some faggot teenager decides the game looks better without the specifically crafted texturing work
>"WOAAAAW MOM LOOK I MADE IT LOOK LIKE SHIT! THIS IS SO MUCH BETTER NOW WITHOUT THE EXTRA DETAIL!"

[Anonymous No.10160340]

>>10160336
it would never look like the above on any existing hardware you moron.

[Anonymous No.10160341]

>>10160336
The game isn't japanese, you dumb fucking starbucks-swilling niggermonkey.

[Anonymous No.10160356]

>>10160340
>>10160341

[Anonymous No.10160463]

[Anonymous No.10160509]

>>10144194
you will never be a woman

[Anonymous No.10160541]

It's completely shit. If you want the CRT look, get a fucking CRT, you stupid nigger.

[Anonymous No.10160610]

>>10160541
why are you so angry? who hurt you?

[Anonymous No.10160626]

You're not supposed to see scanlines. If you do then you're doing it wrong and just adding visual noise to the image. If you're emulating just take advantage of emulation which is a clear crisp picture

[Anonymous No.10160631]

>>10160626
lol ok mate
next you'll be saying flicker on interlaced imagery is supposed to be extremely visible

[Anonymous No.10160913]

>>10144004
They are SOUL

[Anonymous No.10161195]

>>10160913
what shader

[Anonymous No.10161260]

>>10154597
This is CRTlet cope

[Anonymous No.10161615]

>>10161195
crt-royale-xm29plus
I think it looks better on higher res screen

[Anonymous No.10161628]

>>10144004
Never found a shader to that could emulate the real thing. It's all what people imagine a CRT to be like or misremember. The shaders have their own feel to them though which can be nice sometimes.

[Anonymous No.10161629]

>>10146208
retroarch has a new thing that even adds the TV bezels and light reflect off of it and it also shows different arcade cabinets according to the game. I couldn't get it to work at the time because it has to be done manually and something is not compatible. I'll have to try again

[Anonymous No.10161683]

>>10161628
Currently, there's no perfect shader. I'd rather use the advantages of LCD and stick to a shader that lessen the raw, unfiltered look, blurring it a bit. At most, blurring it enough to blend dither and interlacing.

However, I do appreciate complex CRT shaders. Who knows? Perhaps, with technological advancements, we'll be able to accurately mimick a CRT, in the future.

[Anonymous No.10161713]

>>10161683
>Currently, there's no perfect shader
While I'd say that's mostly true true, at this point, in terms of replicating what CRTs look like and perform like, it's the displays that are holding back the shaders more than the other way around. You need plenty of resolution to satisfactorily emulate the analog nature of scan lines and how they're draw on the raster, and lots of brightness so that the image looks nice and vivid. And of course, there's the sample-and-hold blur, pixel response times, low contrast, and other such things that kneecap most monitors and TVs. Basically, only high-end displays are good enough to fully realize the potential of the best shaders.

[Anonymous No.10161749]

desu its for people who likes it. sometimes theimage is just better on crt so filters are usefull. idk its just for people. i like using them sometimes. but mostly play raw

[Anonymous No.10161865]

>>10144004
It's better then nothing.

[Anonymous No.10163270]

[Anonymous No.10163365]

Trying some new settings using the newest guest-advanced. New bloom parameters are a welcome addition.

[Anonymous No.10163370]

>>10163365
This, this is bready gud. And here I thought I was going to have to find a new crt.... I own consoles I do need to find more crts, fuck

[Anonymous No.10163371]

>>10154597
Until modern displays handle motion as well as CRTs I just don't give a fuck

[Anonymous No.10163439]

>>10163365
Can almost taste the static electricity when looking at that screenshot

[Anonymous No.10163446]

>>10144145
correct

>>10154597
>seething
>troon
get a personality, underageb&

[Anonymous No.10163471]

>>10144004
there is no real reason to use It

[Anonymous No.10163483]

>>10163370
>this, this is meme words
>I need to buy more dead boxes….I own consoles lmao
You seem like a smart man. Very smart indeed.

[Anonymous No.10163489]

>>10154598
okay zoomer, this is a retro board. you should go to /v/ or just leave. I'm sure it's past your bedtime.

my take is people can use them if they want, still looks better on CRTs, 16 bit era and back.

[Anonymous No.10163497]

>>10163371
Yeah indeed but what about the blurry low res smudge. Yes.

[Anonymous No.10163512]

>>10163483
Well it was a joke. While I do own consoles, I put my consumer Trinitron in storage like a year ago. I might look around and see if there's a good deal, if not, I'm ok with playing on a projector with a soft screen. It softens pixels kind of like a filter, but natural. But I'm also ok with shelling out money on a p just to make you seethe, so idk.

[Anonymous No.10163524]

>>10163512
You don’t make me seethe but you are making me laugh. I can’t tell if your post is stupid or genuine. Either way comedy genius.
> I put my consumer Trinitron in storage like a year ago
Ok. So it’s a pointless unused box.
> I'm ok with playing on a projector with a soft screen. It softens pixels kind of like a filter, but natural.
It is true that genetic mutation is natural. This is why we get monsters like you.
> But I'm also ok with shelling out money on a p just to make you seethe
Just use your Trinitron. But I bet you just get another one and put that in storage too. Weird fetish.

[Anonymous No.10163532]

>>10163524
I'm obviously joking, fucking retard. I said that in my last post and posted a fucking Austen powers gif. Do you have 0 awareness of what you actually sound like?

[Anonymous No.10163535]

>>10163365
which emulator/filter is this?

[Anonymous No.10163785]

>>10163532
You are so retarded it’s hard to tell it’s a joke, also you can tell what people sound like from a post. Amazing power.

[Anonymous No.10163883]

>>10163365
I like it.

[Anonymous No.10164039]

>>10144004

[Anonymous No.10164051]

[Anonymous No.10164070]

[Anonymous No.10164213]

>>10144004
Used it for a long time on a 4k oled screen...
Better than Raw but it doesnt hold a candle to a real CRT with og hardware.

[Anonymous No.10164746]

>>10164039
Nice ones! What are you using?

[Anonymous No.10164981]

>>10163370
>>10163439
>>10163535
>>10163883
I'm a retard and forgot to save the preset last night, so I did my best to recreate the settings. Here's the preset:
https://pastebin.com/BdJ89NZc
You'll need the latest guest-advanced shader version, found here:
https://forums.libretro.com/t/new-crt-shader-from-guest-crt-guest-advanced-updates/25444

[Anonymous No.10164989]

>>10164981
If you want a small brightness boost and close to non-existent scanline gaps, you can change the Scanline Type parameter from 0 to -1, which looks like this:

[Anonymous No.10165032]

>>10161683
What shaders blur without bringing in all that other CRT shit? I know there's bilinear but that doesn't really handle dithering well

[Anonymous No.10165037]

>>10165032
You can use TVOut-Tweaks or GTU to blend dithering without scanlines, masks or anything else. It'll look blurry as shit, but it'll do the job.

[Anonymous No.10165039]

>>10165032
>>10165037
ntsc-adaptive is more effective
set it to 3-phase s-video, and set the resolution scale between 0.80-90, and increase ntsc saturation to about 1.10 since the shader washes some of the colors out.

[Anonymous No.10165106]

>>10164746
crt-easymode

[Anonymous No.10165138]

>>10165106
Thanks! My tests with Easymode tend to look like shit. Could you share your preset? Or just general advice for the parameters.

[Anonymous No.10165142]

>>10165039
Guest has made a number of improvements over NTSC-Adaptive that I think make it look even better, such as the new "Mixed" NTSC phase mode and the Chroma scaling option, but they're in his guest-advanced-ntsc preset. However, I managed to separate the NTSC component out to work all by itself without all the other CRT stuff. Here's the preset:
https://pastebin.com/z8WKk1un

[Anonymous No.10165151]

What a lot of diehard CRT hardware-only weirdos fail to understand is that a CRT filter is only going to look good if you're doing it on a 4k resolution. So they start criticizing without ever actually knowing what it looks like.

[Anonymous No.10165152]

>>10165142
Forgot, for best results, set Fringing and Artifact values to 0, set NTSC phase to either 3-Phase or Mixed (up to preference, the latter is a bit blurrier), set Resolution scaling to between 0.75 and 0.9, and Chroma Scaling to max to get the best colors without any bleeding or muting. After that, if you want it to look sharper, you can dick around with the NTSC Sharpness setting, though only use negative (adaptive) values, as using positive values will reveal dithering again.

[Anonymous No.10165176]

>>10165032
For blending, you want a separated NTSC shader. Among those, ntsc-adaptive (after tweaking) is the best for that sole purpose. There are also other shaders capable of doing that, but they'll need a lot more blur. If you just want to smoothen the rough edges of pixels, without necessarily blending dither, then you could also try: zfast-crt-composite, bandlimit-pixel or gtu-v050. Of course, all of them needing some tweaks to your taste. Very rarely a shader suits you right out of the box.

Feel free to ask for help if you're stuck.

[Anonymous No.10165181]

>>10165152
Appreciated! It will be useful!

[Anonymous No.10165183]

>>10165138

[Anonymous No.10165398]

>hack and slash
>tank controls
zzz

[Anonymous No.10165403]

>>10165398

[Anonymous No.10165406]

>>10165403

[Anonymous No.10165413]

>>10165406

[Anonymous No.10165438]

>>10165413
best so far

[Anonymous No.10165584]

None of them get close to the real deal. Just use some interpolation filter to avoid scaling issues.

[Anonymous No.10165603]

>>10165584
>scaling issues
I don't have to deal with scaling issues since I have a 1440p monitor (and I always enable integer scaling just in case) but shaders still have their uses, especially in Sega Genesis games with fake transparency that relies on composite

[Anonymous No.10165613]

>>10165413
What game is this?

[Anonymous No.10165618]

>>10165584
why couldn't they get close to the real deal?
are you telling me that CRTs were literal magic and the incredible resolutions and processing power of modern hardware could never accurately simulate their appearance?

[Anonymous No.10165624]

>>10165613
NTA but I recognize the anime it's from so I would guess a search for Vampire Hunter D (video game) will get you there quickly.

[Anonymous No.10165625]

>>10144004
It's nice but people tend to overdo it. I try to keep it more subtle.

[Anonymous No.10165634]

>>10165613
Vampire Hunter D. The anime is beautiful

[Anonymous No.10165679]

[Anonymous No.10165684]

>>10165679

[Anonymous No.10165686]

[Anonymous No.10165692]

>>10165686

[Anonymous No.10165707]

>>10165679
Based Eliminate Down. I've never gotten far, but always had fun with it.

[Anonymous No.10165718]

>>10165679
Very nice config. Which one is it?

[Anonymous No.10165731]

>>10165718
royale ntsc composite preset with changed parameters
https://pastebin.com/sJ0JTJHP

[Anonymous No.10165732]

>>10144004
I like it but Im on the fence about screen border curvature, sometimes it feels like its more authentic while other times it seems just way too fake thus breaking the effect.

[Anonymous No.10165910]

>>10147986
will an original lightgun work on it?

[Anonymous No.10165928]

>>10149064

jesus fuck like what's the point? the game wasnt designed to look lik 46hiw

[Anonymous No.10166281]

If you want to blend dithering and want a bit of blur but without all the CRT things, you can use guest-advanced-ntsc for this. Just set the mask type to -1.0 to disable the phosphor mask, and set the No Scanlines parameter to around 1.0.

[Anonymous No.10166296]

[Anonymous No.10166518]

>>10166281
For pseudo hi-res SNES games, emulators might have a built-in solution to blend that. I know Snes9x has it.

[Anonymous No.10166583]

I think shaders are good enough but tge biggest issue still remains the input delay advantage crt have

[Anonymous No.10167828]

>>10166518
That only blurs horizontally, I think. Ideally you'd want some vertical blur as well.

[Anonymous No.10167990]

>>10166518
>>10167828
>>10166281
the day we get accurate dithering-blending only shaders is the day I'll stop using CRT shaders
sadly it seems development on those has stopped, gdapt and mdapt are sort of the best ones but they fuck up textures and UI elements in games.

[Anonymous No.10168001]

>>10167990
Because there's only so much you can do with a pattern-detection algorithm. No matter what, you'll always end up with pixels here and there that just so happen to make up a pattern that looks like dithering but isn't really and isn't meant to be blended, but the algorithm cannot tell the difference. You'd need some kind of AI to discern on the fly what should and shouldn't blend.

[Anonymous No.10168110]

>>10167828
I checked and it has two options: merge or blur. The former tries to blend only the pseudo-transperency, the latter blurs the whole picture to achieve an uniform result. My eyes are too untrained to really notice if it's done accurately or not. To me, it looks fine.

[Anonymous No.10168312]

>>10144004
How do you feel about shutting the fuck up with this copy-pasted low effort thread?

[Anonymous No.10168339]

>>10144973
Just as you surely enjoy your music by looking at the 'raw notes'?

[Anonymous No.10168368]

>>10168339
Can't listen to Vivaldi any other way. The violinists in my head are so much better than any real world violinist.

[Anonymous No.10168469]

>>10144973
Ok here's your raw pixels bro

[Anonymous No.10168476]

>>10168339
>>10168368
What people call 'raw pixels' though is still rendered into screen colors, but with the wrong instrument - a square box instead more of an additive point with boom around it. So its more like a midi that 'plays' the continuous notes as tones without attack/fade, sustain etc, robotically switched between, barely even recognizable as the music like an early musical christmas card.

[Anonymous No.10168489]

[Anonymous No.10168502]

>>10168476
it's more like performing music in a room without reverb when the music was made for being played in a church.

[Anonymous No.10168527]

>>10168502
no, playing 'without reverb' doesn't introduce very high frequency noise like rendering a blob as a box does. Inverting your example gets closer, and applying cutoff, over-driving a 'clean' sound into a square wave. The dirty rock guitar cover you didn't ask for, of your violin melody

[Anonymous No.10168585]

>>10168527
>The dirty rock guitar cover you didn't ask for
I don't know, I see changing the tone of the violin as on the same level as changing the base color of the pixels. But yeah I can buy square pixels being an over-acoustic church.

[Anonymous No.10168646]

>>10168585
It's not changing the tone, it's adding overtones and this is literally what is happening, not an analogy, to the spatial frequency (not the light frequency).

[Anonymous No.10168663]

>>10168646
Sure I get what you're saying. I wasn't talking literally but using it as an analogy of the severity of it. What I mean is if you're changing the violin to sound like an electric guitar you're messing with the original music as it is written, equivalent to changing the source code of the game. CRT vs. raw pixels is at most like HIPsters vs. modern instrument players. They both fundamentally use the same instruments and play the music as written, but it's a huge difference in sound and character. (And in both cases normies don't give a fuck one way or the other.)

[Anonymous No.10168701]

>>10144004
I get sick just from looking at it

[Anonymous No.10168708]

>>10166583
there is no input delay advantage anymore
it's not 2006 anymore dad

[Anonymous No.10168770]

>>10168663
>What I mean is if you're changing the violin to sound like an electric guitar you're messing with the original music as it is written, equivalent to changing the source code of the game.
Incorrect. The specified pixel color values output by the console are the 'source code', the notes, that are intended to by played into visible light by the instrument, which is a scanned beam on phosphors that results in, moving left-to right on the screen, a smooth rising and falling, and more importantly the spread out notes are meant to overlap and interact with each other.
What people call 'raw' pixels is playing this this note sequence source code with a retarded instrument that rises instantaneously and cuts off instantaneously as the next note starts. This method has no relation to either the intended experience or 'raw output' which would be as someone said earlier, point samples - not stretched out to fill the space

[Anonymous No.10168793]

>>10168770
>Incorrect
Well try telling a classical music fan that changing the instruments isn't the same as changing what the composer wrote and see how that goes.

[Anonymous No.10168850]

>>10168793
the part that's incorrect is where notes were related to the game's source code instead of the point pixel color values because pixels values being the written score (not enjoyable in itself) is the entire point of the music analogy

[Anonymous No.10169285]

>>10168850
>notes were related to the game's source code instead of the point pixel color values
Where do you write what color values to use if not in the source code? The source code the developer wrote is analogous to the sheet music the composer wrote. The reason this is an important distinction is that you make it sound like using raw pixels is analogous to changing the original music. Maybe that's your point, but then you're just as bad as a HIPster saying that if you're not using period accurate instruments then you're not playing the music the way the composer wrote it (and there are plenty of people who think like that).

[Anonymous No.10169347]

>>10169285
I'm not going to explain this to you again. Let my analogy stand for other people to reflect on. The metaphor is information (notes in a score, requested points of brightness) being intended to be played into physical reality (a field of light, music). It's straightforward, it has nothing to do with source code, I don't give a fuck anymore

[Anonymous No.10169354]

>>10169285
Just fucking go back to this >>10168476 ok? It is a self-contained description of the problem. I don't care any more

[Anonymous No.10169465]

Really Raimi?

[Anonymous No.10169467]

>>10169465

[Anonymous No.10169470]

>>10169467

[Anonymous No.10169478]

>>10165928
it looks great, wtf are you talking about

[Anonymous No.10169810]

>>10144004
I get decent results using CRT-Royale and GTU in tandem. Adjusting the Signal Resolution Y setting in GTU lets you get the blending effect of composite.

[Anonymous No.10169978]

>>10169810
Could you try the same with ntsc-adaptive instead of GTU? From my tests, I found it blends with less loss of sharpness. The parameter for that in ntsc-adaptive is "scaling resolution".

[Anonymous No.10169980]

Fake and gay

[Anonymous No.10169997]

>>10169978
gtu does a pretty bad job at dithering, it's just a blurrier bilinear filtering, doesn't really seem to do anything with dithering patterns

[Anonymous No.10170159]

>>10169978
Alright I'm gonna play around with that.

[Anonymous No.10170197]

>>10170159
Thanks! If you can, post the results here. It's nice to see what each preset can do.

[Anonymous No.10170369]

>>10144004
That image on the left doesnt look like the image on my trinitron, not even in a million kilometers my dude, the one on the right is close to what you get with an svideo cable

[Anonymous No.10171353]

so is there any way to actually use these without retroarch or nah

[Anonymous No.10171437]

>>10171353
Not good ones, no
>inb4 reshade
Reshade is absolute trash

[Anonymous No.10171860]

>>10171437
>>10171353
https://github.com/mausimus/ShaderGlass

[Anonymous No.10172391]

>>10171437
>shitting and seething
Why is it so bad? It's compatible with most emulators through opengl and works with tons of old PC games, sometimes requiring something like dgvoodoo to make it work.

[Anonymous No.10172394]

>>10171860
0.9 is out and Royale is in! Very nice.

[Anonymous No.10172406]

>>10144674
moiram if he scanline

[Anonymous No.10172460]

>>10144674
what kind of screen/res do you need for this. hdr 4k or what

[Anonymous No.10172467]

>>10172460
i think the minimum for most filters is 1080 but it still looks like shit most of the time, you really need 4k or higher

[Anonymous No.10172504]

>>10171860
I've not heard of this one, yet to try it but it does look promising
>>10172391
because it looks like ass and is improperly scaled

[Anonymous No.10173275]

>>10172467
1080p is fine for Trinitron-esque setups. You really want at least 1440p for slot mask setups, though.

[Anonymous No.10175739]

>>10169810
>VGA game
>no line-doubled scanlines

[Anonymous No.10175742]

>>10144004
Always makes it look too dark or something else wrong.

[Anonymous No.10177985]

>>10175742
The former is a display issue. The latter is a skill issue.

[Anonymous No.10178559]

>>10144768
I have a retro arcade in my town and I never realized how noticable the screen door was on crts. Good shaders (specifically lottes) are way closer than you think.

[Anonymous No.10180092]

So in the Genesis Sonic and Eternal Champions are the two best examples I know that show how the CRTs altered the image and how devs took advantage of it. Is there any such obvious example in arcade games? I'd like to use it to test the various CRT shaders.

[Anonymous No.10180116]

>>10180092
Uhh... No. What you say as "devs took advantage of it" really means "the pallete doesn't have enough midtones, let's dither". Other than that, it's fake transparencies that are really a shortcoming of the hardware. All those games aren't "improved" for CRTs, they just found a positive side to the lack of sharpness and poor analog signals. I myself use CRT shaders, but don't think you're getting the superior experience. Maybe an "adequated" one, but not superior.

That being said, there are plenty of games on the Sega Genesis for that. However, for testing, I suggest some Sega CD games: Lords of Thunder, Final Fight CD and Earthworm Jim Special Edition.

[Anonymous No.10180329]

To anyone using retroarch, I recommend using xmb with a completely transparent background so you don't have to open and close the quick menu every time you change a parameter value.

[Anonymous No.10181017]

>>10180329
You can also do this with Ozone, although there's lines in between options that sort of get in the way. Not sure if those can be removed.

[Anonymous No.10182402]

>>10180116
yes but they obviously knew itd get blurred and have the transparency effect

[Anonymous No.10182475]

Are there good colorbleed/composite shaders?
I'm using VHS Pro but it's heavy.

[Anonymous No.10182571]

>>10144145
This.

[Anonymous No.10182645]

>>10144004
can't play without them

[Anonymous No.10182716]

>>10182475
Try the one in this post >>10165142
It lets you control the level of color bleed, composite artifacts like fringing, sharpness, and so on.

[Anonymous No.10182974]

>>10182475
If guest's shaders are still too heavy for your machine, you could try regular ntsc-adaptive or gtu-v050. The latter needs to have composite enabled in its parameters.

[Anonymous No.10183232]

for me it's zfast-crt

[Anonymous No.10183323]

If I were to use an emulator for PS2 and Gamecube games on a CRT, should I set everything to the native, default settings? Will it make a difference?

[Anonymous No.10183346]

>>10183323
it varies for ps2, some games get "blurry" when upscaled and might need adjustments, while it's mostly fine on gamecube.

[Anonymous No.10185002]

>>10182974
It'd have to be a seriously weak machine not to handle guest-ntsc. My shitty Quadro laptop GPU from 2013 can handle it, just barely but full speed all the same.

[Anonymous No.10185665]

>>10185002
There are still a few devices I can think of. Like:

1. Old PCs bought cheaply (or even for free) dedicated to be an emulation box.
2. Home/office PCs without a discrete GPU or decent APU.
3. Most of the current SBCs.

Another aggravating issue might be the need for saving resources for other tasks, like input lag reduction. All in all, it's good to have lightweight options.

[Anonymous No.10185727]

>>10185665
Shaders only tax the GPU, so the only thing using a heavy shader would limit you in would be how low you can set Vulkan max swapchain images down to, the lowest being 2, which admittedly I cannot do with such a shader, so I'm getting an extra frame of lag. Still, at least I can offset it with Run-ahead, which is CPU-bound, but I understand shittier devices may not be able to.

[Anonymous No.10185882]

>>10144145
the state of all emulation, really

[Anonymous No.10186354]

>>10185727
I think frame delay also taxes the GPU, but I haven't found confirmation.

[Anonymous No.10187130]

here is mame hlsl

[Anonymous No.10187136]

>>10187130

[Anonymous No.10187140]

a real crt for comparison

[Anonymous No.10187147]

[Anonymous No.10187159]

>>10187136
We have reached the point that if crt shaders where there's going to be people who think this is amazing and people constantly saying shit like "it'll never be as good as a real crt".

[Anonymous No.10187323]

>>10187140
Is that yours? If so, could take a picture of a 3D game in it?

[Anonymous No.10187372]

>>10144004
Only good for blending dither patterns and vertical lines. Otherwise fake scanlines and aperture grills look like ass. And if you're emulating dogshit like screen curvature, you're objectively a homosexual retard.

[Anonymous No.10187730]

[Anonymous No.10187856]

[Anonymous No.10187858]

presets/crt-royale-ntsc-composite