/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.10065294]

This game is kicking my ass. On PS5, I cruised through all of Doom eps 1-3 on Ultra-Violence, and beat ep4 and Doom II without much trouble.

But damn they must have *really* made this game for people who already beat Doom II. Because I'm not even on the highest difficulty and yet I keep dying on map 6, even though I switched from PS5 pad to m+kb. The levels are almost as labyrinthine as endgame Doom 2. Lost souls in this game are way scarier, and they keep popping out of monster closets behind me and I keep getting swarmed by groups of hell knights in tight corridors where I can't spam rockets...

Anyway I'm having a blast, mostly because the graphics and sound are fucking awesome. Any fans of Doom 64 here?
also doom general I guess

[Anonymous No.10065325]

I enjoy the ambient soundtrack, 64 is the real doom 3. Most of the enemy redesigns are kinda ass but the new pain elemental is good.

[Anonymous No.10065359]

>>10065294
Playing Doom with a controller is sacrilege. I refused to pick it up when it was new (and not at all because I was a child) for that reason. A lot of the oldfags here seem to hate it, but I genuinely enjoy it more than Doom II. The 2016/Eternal devs actually canonized this game in Eternal, the reason the demons are shit scared of him is because between the events of 64 and 2016 they've been trapped with him.

[Anonymous No.10065398]

>>10065294
Doom 64 and doom 3 are on the list, been wanting a good wind down fps game and doom has been on my mind since hearing that dreadful boomshooter phrase.

[Anonymous No.10065402]

This was actually the first Doom game I ever played, and I love it. The art style and music are especially fantastic, and the game play feels somewhere in between Doom 1 and 2 in terms of level size and intensity. The Doom community used to mostly look down on it, but they've come around to liking it recently.

[Anonymous No.10065613]

>>10065294
I guess you're a real noob if you found it ballbusting, but you gotta start somewhere, so I'll never judge. If you like Doom and want more, that subject is an everflowing cornucopia, some people even make Doom 64 or Doom 64 styled content on occasion.
There's a certain attitude of "git gud scrub" when it comes to Doom and fan levels, and there's absolutely some incredibly tough sets out there intended for really seasoned veterans, but be mindful that there are yet more which aren't balanced like that. In fact, some sets do actually try to balance difficulty levels, so if you ever try out one but find it's obnoxiously hard, try lowering the difficulty and see if it's more reasonable for your current skill level. You'll keep getting better.

I love Doom 64, though I first played it a couple of years ago, after decades of other Dooming, so trying it on the second highest skill level I actually found it a bit dull. Barren and barely populated, not too many fights, and low stakes when there was.
Trying it on the highest setting, Watch Me Die, it was much better and a lot more fun, some levels are genuinely quite tough. I was not able to beat one of the newly added bonus levels, it was beyond me.

>>10065325
They're a bit of a mixed bag, but I love the Imp, Pinky, and Arachnotron. Pain Elemental is fantastic, nothing can truly replace the classic meatball to me, but I adore this nightmarish prick and how he's so much meaner here.
Never really loved Aubrey's soundtracks overall, but with the completely revamped graphics and soundscape, Doom 64 creates a bit of a distinct character and it ends up working.

[Anonymous No.10065627]

>>10065613
If OP was genuine I could imagine playing the PAL version with an N64 controller would be hell on Earth.

Huh, huh, get it? I'll see myself out..
4AJANy to clean up

[Anonymous No.10065642]

>>10065359
Mouse is the nicest way, but with a good gamepad setup, Doom plays pretty well, far better than on keyboard only. You don't aim up or down, so with two analog sticks you can move and turn fairly smoothly.

>A lot of the oldfags here seem to hate it
Some might? My impressions from /doom/ as well as loose threads on the board is that Doom 64 is mostly well liked.

>>10065402
>The Doom community used to mostly look down on it
I wouldn't say that it did that, more that it wasn't as widely accessible, and just hearing the title many had assumed it was another port like the other ones. My brother was surprised to learn that Doom 64 was actually a new game, not a port, and he wasn't alone in that.

As guys like Kaiser painstakingly recreated it on PC, so that you wouldn't have to deal with early N64 emulation, people gradually saw that Doom 64 was actually a pretty cool and distinct game. Maybe not 100% to everyone's tastes in every way, but as far back as I can remember, Doom 64 was fairly well regarded, and assets ripped from it were not rare to see in projects.
The fact that so many different recreations of Doom 64 sprung up I think also speaks for its popularity.

[Anonymous No.10066238]

>>10065613
The imp always struck me as some weird Glacius ripoff, but when you don't give a character much of a face that's a pretty easy comparison to make.

[Anonymous No.10067423]

>>10065294
Love me doom

[Anonymous No.10067448]

>>10067423
What embarrassing thread of yours are you trying to bury, anon?

[Anonymous No.10067608]

OP here. just finished map 13 and still loving it (except for the ten minutes I just spent lost in that map without knowing how to find the blue keycard, lol.)

Yes I'm a Doom noob. I'm surprised to hear the opinion that it's "between Doom 1 and 2" in terms of difficulty. The maps take ages to clear when playing blind, and I'm constantly running low on ammo. There are a lot of forced "boss fight" situations where the door locks behind you Zelda style blocking your retreat until you wipe out the last enemy -- don't remember that happening in Doom 1 and 2. And just directly comparing Doom 64's version of Dead Simple to Doom 2's, Doom 64's seems a lot more challenging. Pain Elementals are a nightmare in this game since lost souls deal so much more damage.

also the chainsaw in this game is fucking awesome

[Anonymous No.10067615]

>>10065359
oh shut the fuck up, people play DOOM with fucking keys. You're only aiming left and right, an analog stick is more than capable of doing that accurately.

[Anonymous No.10067627]

I enjoy it. Never finished because I couldn't beat the final boss

[Anonymous No.10067672]

>>10067627
Get super charged, try not to get hit while closing the portals and waiting for the boss, then charge the boss with the BFG and give it a couple point blank shots.

[Anonymous No.10067687]

>>10065359
Playing it with a mouse is cheating. Settle the fuck down, sperg.

[Anonymous No.10067689]

>>10067687
this
and so is auto-run

[Anonymous No.10067706]

>>10067687
Nah, mouse control was available from the start. It was just that you could only use it to turn along the horizontal.

>>10067689
Really? Auto-run wasn't available from the start? Are you trying to troll or something, I suspect that because auto-run is such an important part of playing Doom nowadays that I never turn it off. Holding the shift key down simply makes effectively dodging attacks way too difficult.

[Anonymous No.10067714]

>>10067706
>Nah, mouse control was available from the start.
So was gamepad support, pussytits.

[Anonymous No.10067745]

>>10067714
I'm not the guy you were originally speaking to. I have nothing wrong with using a gamepad to play Doom, it's just that even without vertical mouselook, using the mouse is still better because it allows for more precise aiming.

[Anonymous No.10067748]

>>10067745
Point being, use whatever you want.

[Anonymous No.10067767]

>15 minutes into Map 16 Blood Keep
>got the supercharge and mega armor, feeling good
>accidentally open two doors with barons of hell behind them instead of just one
>panic, stumble back outside to try and chokepoint them with the rocket launcher
>a shitzillion lost souls swooced into existence outdoors while I was inside fighting the barons
>get surrounded
>die in two seconds
bros...

[Anonymous No.10067803]

>>10067767
Always have a quicksave handy, it helps to make mistakes like this less painful. That said, fuck lost souls, they are some of the most annoying enemies in doom and are only marginally less irritating than the drones in Duke3D.

[Anonymous No.10067804]

>>10067748
Sure, but using a keyboard only isn't advisable in my opinion, it makes the controls too imprecise and clunky.

[Anonymous No.10067827]

>>10067706
>Really? Auto-run wasn't available from the start? Are you trying to troll or something
no, it's true. autorun is a port feature.
but I'll admit that the only reason I know about it is because karl jobst mentioned it lel. you can read about it on doom wiki

[Anonymous No.10067883]

>>10067627
Same, I played through D64 when I was a kid and that bitch just absolutely destroyed my ass over and over until I just gave up lol

[Anonymous No.10068078]

>>10067627
>>10067883
itt niggas cant circlestrafe. That boss is a fucking joke.

[Anonymous No.10068982]

>>10067767
>try to beat it again today
>breeze through it
>INESCAPABLE LAVA TRAP WITH NO WARNING IMMEDIATELY BEFORE THE EXIT
are you fucking kidding me

[Anonymous No.10068996]

Love the atmosphere in this game but the levels are too gimmicky and the enemies are just bullet sponges on anything harder than easy mode. I wish more wads were made for it.

[Anonymous No.10069270]

>>10067608
>Yes I'm a Doom noob.
Enjoy, you'll keep getting better and there's so many level sets out there you'll never really run out of more Doom.

>I'm surprised to hear the opinion that it's "between Doom 1 and 2" in terms of difficulty. The maps take ages to clear when playing blind, and I'm constantly running low on ammo.
Unless maybe they're counting in the added fourth episode to the first game, I don't really see how it quite fits that, I think Doom 64 is tougher than Doom 2.

>There are a lot of forced "boss fight" situations where the door locks behind you Zelda style blocking your retreat until you wipe out the last enemy -- don't remember that happening in Doom 1 and 2. And just directly comparing Doom 64's version of Dead Simple to Doom 2's, Doom 64's seems a lot more challenging.
It absolutely is, that level goes hard as fuck in comparison, genuinely gives me a tough time on WMD.

>Pain Elementals are a nightmare in this game since lost souls deal so much more damage.
Yeah, I believe they gave him some vitamins in this game since they couldn't have the Arch-Vile, and they needed a high tier enemy to make you panic. He spits two skulls at a time now, and four when dying, so that's more than before. More, Lost Souls aren't just a lot more aggressive in Doom 64, when they die, they actually do explode with splash damage and all.
This is to stop you from doing the classic trick where you can get right up in the face of Doom 2's Pain Elemental and block his spawns completely, making him basically harmless, doing it in this game REALLY hurts so it's not viable unless you have an invuln sphere.

>also the chainsaw in this game is fucking awesome
I know, right?

[Anonymous No.10069280]

>>10069270
I think Doom 2 is harder mostly because Doom 64 lacks the Archvile, Commando, and Revenant.

[Anonymous No.10069410]

>>10069280
Those monsters are more dangerous, but much of that is application. A single Baron in a large and open room really isn't much of a threat compared to 12 Pinkies in some really tight quarters, even if the Baron is a higher tier of enemy. Doom 2 does up the ante a bit compared to the first game, but it seldom goes particularly hard or use its all of its new monsters in particularly creative ways.
IMO it's not until Plutonia that you get to see what Doom 2's new monsters really are worth.

Even Simpler is genuinely a very tough map on WMD, I can't think of any one level in Doom 2 which is anywhere close in difficulty. The only seriously mean part of Doom 2 which comes to mind is that one ambush trap in The Pit.

[Anonymous No.10069598]

>>10068996
They use Knights and Barons a lot, but the weapons aren't balanced 100% the same. Notably, they give you quite a lot of rockets, so using a few to deal with those guys is always a viable option.

>Fist
A bit slower, but compare to the old damage roll range of 2 to 20, it now does 3 to 24, with a little bit further reach. Berserk still ups your damage x10, thus that means 30 as a minimum with that, and a whopping 240 potential maximum.

>Chainsaw
Same increase in damage roll, 3 to 24, but more importantly it's a LOT faster, like a little less than twice as fast, with a little further range. This actually makes the Chainsaw a lot more viable in far more situations, instead of just really being good for Pinkies, you could actually dare to take Hellknights with it now with how it'll stunlock them.

>Pistol
Slightly faster, original damage roll is 5 to 15, while here it's 4 to 16.

>Shotgun
Has slightly less maximum damage with a full hit at 100, instead of 105 like the original, but it's slightly faster, and it has the same 4 to 16 span as the pistol, so lowest average is going to be higher (the way that the pRNG works will cut you out of some theoretically higher max damage, but also prevent you from getting bullshit all low rolls in a row).

>Super Shotgun
Actually does 5 to 15 like in Doom 2, yet still has a slightly lower maximum at 240, rather than 245. However, the higher rate of fire adds up.

>Chaingun
Same 4 to 16 damage change like the Pistol, but it's a good bit faster, so it's a more powerful weapon overall, and more fun to use IMO.

[Anonymous No.10069612]

>Rocketlauncher
Essentially the same.

>Plasma
Same damage, but like half as fast with slightly slower projectiles. Probably to reduce lag, and to justify giving it to the player earlier, also probably to make the Unmaker more distinct.
Doesn't hold you up with a recoil animation after shooting though.

>BFG9000
Supposed to be the same, according to people looking at the code and doing testing, but it really feels like it does a lot less damage.

>Unmaker
Lvl.0 : Single beam, 10 to 80 damage, fairly slow, actually lower DPS than Plasma.
Lvl.1 : Single beam, same damage, but noticeably faster.
Lvl.2 : Two beams (thus 20-160), fires even faster.
Lvl.3 : Three beams (30-240), and yet faster still!
At max upgrade, the Unmaker seriously puts out as much as 1000 fucking damage every second (assuming full hits), each upgrade makes it consume more cells, but the increase in damage far outpaces this anyway. It's also a hitscan weapon, so it fits through narrow gaps and you don't need to wait for the travel of the projectile.
The BFG9000 is technically still more powerful, but the kind of direct and rapid hitting and stunning of the fully upgraded Unmaker sets it way apart.

[Anonymous No.10069743]

>>10069612
One neat trick is that you can use the Unmaker to kill the Cyberdemon in "Watch Your Step" by shooting safely through a set of bars in another room.

[Anonymous No.10069757]

Which was your favorite of the secret levels you had to use level select to access? Hardcore was pretty sick, Cat & Mouse felt a bit too gimmicky.

[Anonymous No.10069789]

>>10065359
>Playing Doom with a controller is sacrilege. I refused to pick it up when it was new (and not at all because I was a child) for that reason.
You're a fag in so many ways.

[Anonymous No.10069939]

>>10069757
Hardcore prolapsed my anus, I don't think I've ever been in a situation where a single cyberdemon has ever given me so much trouble before. Felt like a king after I finally beat it.

[Anonymous No.10070547]

Newfag OP here.
How'd they do this? I thought this wasn't allowed in id Tech 1

[Anonymous No.10070567]

>>10070547
Sector teleports

[Anonymous No.10070816]

>>10070547
>>10070567
More likely an instantly moving floor with a texture change.

Also Doom64 isn't the exact same engine as 1 and 2, they added some custom stuff to it took.

[Anonymous No.10070864]

>>10070816
I think you're on the right track, I managed to find this one frame where you can see something weird going on with the height of that sector. I think the floor is artificially pushed up so that you can glimpse it through the grate as you walk over it. The lack of map fuckery makes me think they couldn't have easily achieved it with teleports.
still loving 64, I've think it's almost like a single-player d&d dungeon crawling experience, where most of the challenge comes from traps and ambushes and you die if you get careless. Also I finally incremented the number of times I've had to look something up to beat a Doom level from "0" to "1" thanks to the raised pedestal puzzle in Spawned Fear. that hurt my pride lol

[Anonymous No.10071869]

>>10065613
>pain elemental
Would be perfect if this redesign was the original. Hate whatever they did to his "middle mouth" in 64.

https://youtu.be/qBJfKNpOoDM

[Anonymous No.10073323]

>>10071869
He looks and sounds creepy and weird in a way I love, it suits how they made him a much higher tier enemy for this game.

[Glow_Nigga No.10074483]

I beat DooM64 on the hardest settings and it was piss easy thanks to my memory's about demon key locations, that unmaker of mine was working over time on my last playthrough.

[Anonymous No.10074492]

>>10074483
The Void level was too cool to be a secret level.

[Anonymous No.10074506]

>>10070864
It's Doom with Quake level design

[Anonymous No.10076161]

>>10074483
I've been playing it with pistol starts, so no Unmaker for me.

[Anonymous No.10076346]

>>10074492
I think that it's so weird and cool makes it all the more worthwhile as a secret.

[Anonymous No.10076351]

>>10071869
there is no middle mouth though, his mouth split and fused with his hands

[Anonymous No.10076507]

Why do speedrunners go for 100% kills and secrets but not for 100% items?

[Anonymous No.10076518]

Doom64 has a really good OST if you're into dark ambient.

[Anonymous No.10076552]

>>10076507
first of all, it isn't very glamorous. that's arbitrary but it's also true -- "all kills and secrets" just seems more meaningful than "all light amplification goggles, computer maps and 1% health and armor bonuses" (although in 64, they give 2%! lol)
but from a more objective point of view, it removes opportunity cost in routing. after all, you do pick up *some* items even in a uv-speed run. what if a map has a megasphere that takes 6 seconds out of your run to collect? well in uv-speed or uv-max, you can save time if you're skilled enough to clear the map without that megasphere. but in a 100% items run, you're obligated to get it anyway. so it's just a bit more boring
>>10076518
https://youtu.be/KZEEFC_WGzA
I'm using these in my next d&d dungeon crawl for sure

[Anonymous No.10076580]

>>10076552 Yeah, I guess it's just not worth it to go for 100% items, but I can't be the only autistic DooM player to do this bullshit anyway.
As unpopular as it is, I'd expect it to at least be a separate category of speedrun ("Max+" or "True100" sounds cool) but nope.

[Anonymous No.10076582]

>>10076580 "300%" would also sound cool.

[Anonymous No.10076632]

>>10076552
Just don't use the updated mix the composer released for the games anniversary, he added a bunch of retarded new effects to the tracks and even through in some wubstep.

[Anonymous No.10076796]

>>10065294
Well, I played it and it doesn't look like the game was made by professionals, your usual rookie-core with high difficulty and stupid level design

[Anonymous No.10079019]

>>10076796
I liked them about as well as Doom 1 + 2 levels.
It's not that much harder than Doom 2.